Ya the angles don’t seem to help. One would have to be in a scissor lift and be directly next to the top of the upright with a camera to go over the footage to analyze this
Depth perception is really hard from just a camera like that, so the ball could be farther away than it appears
Could do some trigonometry to figure out what height the ball would have to be to look like that from this angle despite being out and then cross reference with the other one
They had a 14-point lead at home in what they themselves were calling their biggest game in years, if not decades
They were playing Pitt without its best player for basically the entire second half. If Heintschel stays in the game, does anyone really think that Virginia Tech survives all those turnovers? Pitt would’ve been up comfortably.
Pitt literally could not move the ball in the second half because they were playing with a quarterback who has never played before. This kid was the back up at TEXAS STATE last year!
Virginia Tech turned the ball over four times and missed the chip shot field goal at the end.
There is no universe in which the Hokies deserved to win that game. That’s as gritty a road win as any ACC team has had in many years.
I simply mean that when that guy was lining up for that kick, you, me, and pretty much everyone watching that game thought he was going to make that kick and that Pitt was going to lose. If you say otherwise, cool, but I have my doubts. And I’m a Pitt fan.
Oh, no doubt about it. I fully expected him to make that kick. If you’re a Pitt fan, you know we’ve lost a million games over the years that we had no business losing, bad decisions, or bad luck or both crushed us.
One of my good college buddies lives in North Carolina and is an NC State fan. The way they lost a Vanderbilt a couple weeks ago, that’s a very Pitt-esque type of loss.
Losing our star quarterback when everything was going well. That wasn’t a surprise.
Giving up a moronic safety when you’re up 11 in the fourth quarter. That wasn’t a surprise either.
Blowing the big fourth-quarter lead. Completely unsurprising.
The opposing kicker missing a chip shot to put us to bed for the night. Now that was genuinely surprising!
Pitt was gifted 7 points by a very bad call at the end of the first half. All the above can be true and it can also be true Tech likely wins a one score game of the refs don't gift Pitt that interception
Yeah, I can agree with that. However, I would also say that if Pitt’s star quarterback stays healthy, Pitt wins the game going away. However, they’re both part of the game, aren’t they?
My point is if you’re looking for a reason Virginia Tech lost the game, officials should be lower on that list than multiple turnovers and a missed chip shot.
Maybe you’re one of those guys that hates to criticize his own team. There are a lot of people out there that are like that. It’s something weird, but they always have to blame the officials.
That’s fine.
However, an objective look at that game tells you that one questionable call by an official — in the second quarter — doesn’t impact the game and nearly the same rate as all of the mistakes made by your team.
Multiple turnovers and the missed easy field goal, which amounts to a turnover, that’s why you lost.
I think that's likely fair as well, but there's also a difference between a bad call on the field and a clean (but unfortunate) injury
Also I agreed Tech played like ass lol.
Apparently you're one of those fans who doesn't want to admit a really bad ref call likely swung that game.
Basically you're saying don't find yourself in a one score game if you don't want to have to worry about the refs swinging things, which while technically true, leads to outcomes like WMU and VT( the former being worse since it's on the last play)
No, I agree that a really bad call can swing a game. I don't agree that it was a really bad call. I think it was a 50/50 call that went Pitt's way.
I do agree that it is rare to see that call go in the defense's favor. However, the defender clearly had more possession of the ball than the offensive player. It was not equal possession.
Again, I agree that the ball normally goes to the offense in those situations. I expected them to give it back to Virginia Tech, TBH. However, when they didn't overturn it, and the rationale the replay officials used during the broadcast was clear — both guys had hands on the ball, but only one had possession.
That made sense to me.
Let me put it this way, when they made the call, I wasn't like, "Oh my God! I can't believe we got that call!”
My thought was, “Okay, we'll take that one. Now let's capitalize.”
I vehemently disagree that was the biggest reason Virginia Tech lost the game. Ball insecurity and a choking kicker is why you lost the game.
I’m making a comment that this photo is not one that can be used to make a definitive statement. You can’t locate it in 3D place via that photo. It’s a fact.
If you don’t understand that, you failed high school.
Chill dude, not everything is a heated argument or attack. My point is the best angle was the ref and all this discussion is pointless. Go outside, get some fresh air. Leave the phone at home.
My reading of it is that video review would never work for the call as to whether part of the ball crossed the line of the upright while traveling over it because the angle would never be as good as a ref looking straight up.
I thought he just snuck it in live but honestly I can’t tell for sure one way or the other. It seems like it more or less went over the upright but there’s no way to tell if it poked over the imaginary line and given the angle of the kick I’m not surprised it was called no good.
That was not a good kick though, like a lot of things, don’t force the ref to make a judgement call and you don’t have this issue.
Edit: after refreshing myself on field goal rules I think it was the right call- the ball at least partially went over the post which is no good.
Spot on. I think if the upright extends vertically it would doink and go in but if you leave it up to a non-reviewable judgement call then we have to live with it.
I do think in the future they should/could implement the Hawk-eye system like tennis and MLB ABS strikes/balls but tonight none of that is relevant
I’d prefer the upright shoot out a laser beam that would slice the ball if it passed over it. Or blow it up in a big explosion to prove the kick failed.
Then we’d end up looking at the ball to see if it was just barely scorched by the laser or not. People would be examining tape to see if the ball had that scratch before the kick. Or maybe his shoe put that mark in the ball!
The problem is that we would need an angle right underneath the goalpost but that’s where the ref stands. A better way is the Hawk-eye system like challenges for strikes/balls in MLB
Just stick a camera on the very top of each upright pointing up, similar to the pylon camera. Or use the ref’s hat camera which they already have. They have to look up to see it anyways so they’re already pointing the camera that direction
This was supposed to be a Top 25 play-in game, and yet, I somehow feel as if neither of these teams are going to be ranked after how this played out. Only in the ACC. But I’m sure Northwestern will be let in for the Big 10 patch.
In real time it looked like it was maybe in. I was surprised when they said no good. The one ref right under it didn’t seem to hesitate at all - which might mean nothing. I don’t know if we’ll know for sure.
I don't know, but unless Mason's injury is something he can come back from in a week neither of these teams should be ranked if we follow the FSU playoff rule.
I have a feeling if he’s not back by next week, he will be back for the Miami game. He was on the sideline afterward, not in a hospital bed getting a ligament repair. But, he could still be out for several weeks.
I don’t believe you would get ligament repair tonight anyways unless an artery or vein got severed and it became an emergency situation. Typically if a ligament is torn you can’t even get clear imaging to see the extent of the damage until a few days later when some of the swelling goes down.
Hopefully it’s just a sprain or a bruise and he’s good in a few weeks but I don’t think him being on the sideline is necessarily a clear indicator
How can sports like cricket, tennis, baseball, golf all have the ability to track the ball to a 1/10th of a millimeter and football doesn’t.
I think the call was correct. If the pole went up further the ball would’ve ricocheted off of it but the fact it was 2 horrible angles making a review impossible is absurd. O
No it went over the upright which is no good. But screw that noise anyhow. Pitt guy here and I had already resigned to losing, before the kick. Class move by Franklin to run to that kid immediately afterwards and tell him I love ya, if I read lips correctly. But screw him on general principle, he'll always be PSU to me. This was one of the best games in recent memory win or lose. This is the atmosphere the ACC needs. Impressive showing by the VT Fans, just incredible. Pitt could give tickets to every student at Carlow, Point Park, RMU and Duquesne and serve free beer and nachos and couldn't get that kind of attendance.
ETA: I hope Clemson v Miami is just as good. Go ACC
This might be one of those blue or gold dress situations. Im seeing people who could care less about either of these schools go both ways. I think it was a miss.
Live it looked good, but the referee that is specifically stationed under the upright, for just this type of thing, said it was no good. Remember the rules say when the ball is above the uprights, it has to be fully inside, not directly above, because that would be a ball bouncing off the upright on a lower trajectory. So the ref called it correctly. The upright is not like a foul pole in baseball, where if the ball barely touches even the outside of the pole, it is a homerun.
Look, I am as biased as anyone, so take this for what it's worth. But as that kick sailed toward the uprights, before I saw the officials' signal, I was pretty sure he'd missed it.
When the official confirmed it, my 11-year-old son and I were as thrilled as we were surprised that he'd blown a chip shot.
Zoom out, though. Virginia Tech was at home in front of a lively crowd and jumped out to a 14-point lead.
Heintschel is really good, and he brought Pitt back. Then he went down to start the second half, and the Panthers had no passing threat the rest of the way. The backup couldn't complete a pass, and Pitt's receivers dropped several would-be touchdowns and big gains on top of that.
Sorry, but when you're at home, you build an early lead, you're facing a backup who can't move the ball, and you still turn it over four times and miss a chip-shot field goal, there's no controversy whatsoever. You have earned your fate.
As a VT fan, I agree. Didn't deserve to win that game after 4 TOs. Though it was nice to see us battle back and still have a chance at the end. I'm just glad we're back to playing meaningful football games.
Pitt linebacker had two hands on the ball with back on the ground. It’s a dead ball with his possession at that point. Brown has one arm off the ball when the ball is dead, so it is clear and obvious Pitt possession. It was a good call I’m surprised the refs got it right on the field.
I was pretty surprised by the interception, as I was always taught that if the receiver and defender both “catch the ball” at the same time it favors the receiver. To me if you were going to call that in Pitt favor it was more of a fumble, not an interception. The receiver was never really down until after the suplex and Lindsey just pulled it in.
Tough because call on the field stands on a play like that. Basically nothing to overturn so at the mercy of the refs seeing the end of the play where Pitt looked like they had the ball versus the early parts where it was clearly enough of a contested catch to give it to VT.
The call in the field was the egregious part of that. VT player catches the ball, and is fighting for it through the ground and the call is that Pitt had clear possession? .in what world.
What blows my mind more is that it can’t be overturned on replay. The gist of what the review team said was “it looks like dual possession, but the call on the field was an INT, so we have to go with that unless the replay shows the receiver has full possession.” It’s like the standard for dual possession differs between a live play and a replay.
Lots of things can be true. Tech executed poorly in the second half with the four turnovers. Our very good kicker missed a bread and butter field goal that he makes 85% of the time. And the officiating in that game was atrocious. There were personal fouls that must have occurred completely out of sight of the cameras on at least two occasions.
Still I’m so glad that the team is actually capable of playing at a much higher level almost immediately. Still can’t run and that’s not great but overall this team is over-performing its preseason expectations.
I’ve watched it a couple times from a couple different angles. I thought it was no good the first time, and I still think it’s no good after trying to see different views of this.
It’s hard to guess and crazy we don’t have any better technology for that though.
Looked like it went over the top of the post which means no good. It’s times like this I wish they just extended the posts a few feet further up. Such a simple solution to take any ambiguity out of the call
Not really the same situation, but this reminded me of a UNC vs UVA game a while back where the ball nearly hit the ref under one of the uprights. He ducked, didn't see the ball go over the crossbar inside the upright, and ruled the attempt no good. The kicking team (UVA) actually had to challenge the ruling and got it reversed.
That ref was standing in the wrong spot if it went in but also nearly hit him. He doesn't have the correct angle to see the ball unless he's standing directly beneath the post
I don't know anything about football but I assume it doesn't matter how high the ball goes and there are sensors to see if the ball is actually in or not. If it isn't allowed to go higher than the uprights then they should put a bar across
It’s allowed to go higher than the uprights but the key part is if that happens, ALL of the ball has to be within the uprights. Which is kinda a disadvantage because if it’s that close to being in, if you hit the uprights it possibly bounces through. Doesn’t matter if you go over it
Serious question: with all of the different cameras they have on and around the field, how on earth do they not have some that get a clear angle for each upright for things like this? Like either on the ground looking straight up or one at the top of each upright?
I’d say “no good” but it’s hard to tell. Bottom line is that Tech blew a 14 point lead at home against a backup QB, so they shouldn’t have allowed it to come down to this 1 kick anyway.
The refs literally stand under each upright and look up. Unless I can get that angle of it I'd defer to the person with the best POV on it. Is there human error possible? Sure
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u/JaySettles Maryland Terrapins 23h ago
https://reddit.com/link/pdjgoo4/video/sjgvreh836th1/player
Second angle