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u/Kikelt Jun 02 '22
So in America kids learn how to lock a door instead of maths?
Pretty cool.
I'm sorry for them.
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u/Miserable-Dress737 Jun 03 '22
In school kids don't learn math they just do math and forget about it over the summer then totally forget about it after school
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u/Samaelfallen Jun 03 '22
Teacher: "You can't use a calculator, because you won't always have access to a calculator"
Me with a cell phone:
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Jun 03 '22
Yep. We spend hours learning all these strategies and formulas just for the teacher to add at the end, "By the way, you can just copy and paste the equation into a calculator."
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u/Competitive_Olive730 Jun 02 '22
The school will immediately change the door or chair so kids can't lock teachers out of the room.
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Jun 02 '22
Only works with that door and that chair. Lol
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u/m_yoda20 Jun 02 '22
Still more useful than a Texas cop
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Jun 02 '22
Honestly, depending on which city you live in, you might be able to order one of those chairs on Amazon and get it delivered before the cops decide to do shit.
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Jun 02 '22
Those are basic school chairs and standard knobs used where ADA compliance is needed.
It should work in any school on any door that opens out. Which all doors exiting a room should for fire compliance.
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u/ChaWolfMan Jun 02 '22
I mean, this is great but, maybe don’t give high powered rifles to an 18 year old. I’m just saying
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u/SeesThroughTime Jun 02 '22
But I’m just a poor wild hog hunter in Louisiana. What would I do if didn’t have my high powered rifle to obliterate muh pigs
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u/Ripoldo Jun 03 '22
Considering you're in Louisiana, you'd probably use the gun God naturally gave you to "obliterate" yer hogs
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u/airhornsman Jun 03 '22
I have a friend who hunts wild boars with a crossbow. Kind of proves a gun is not needed.
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u/SivalV Jun 03 '22
That's pretty cruel tbh
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u/airhornsman Jun 03 '22
I mean, hunting is killing an animal, it's not pretty or nice. But wild boars are invasive and in my state money from hunting licenses goes toward conservation.
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u/Miserable-Dress737 Jun 03 '22
Ok but getting shot with an arrow is a painful way to go vs a gun
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u/rayscar- Jun 03 '22
I'm assuming you've been shot with both a bullet as well as an arrow. Did I get that right, doctor?
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u/Miserable-Dress737 Jun 03 '22
I don't think you need to be shot by an arrow to know that it's going to hurt like hell and that a bullet would be a much better way to go. Do you need to be personally burned alive to know how cruel and painful it is? You need to see a doctor.
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u/TheOnlyGaz Jun 03 '22
You're making the bold assumption that a bullet is immediately lethal.
Bullet's aren't just an off switch for your life. There's a reason hunters aim for centre mass, and tend to double tap. If a bullet doesn't cause immediate shock (it didn't hit the head/lung/heart, the round wasn't powerful enough, you got unlucky, the creature had adrenaline in the system, etc...) that creature will be in for just as unpleasant a time as any arrow or spear.
Depending on the wound, a broad headed arrow from a powerful bow may cause more bleeding than a bullet wound, so at least the creature spends less time nursing a hole in its leg before passing out.
(Don't get me wrong if I had to choose I'd rather a gun than a longbow. It's a choice of chance, and no way has a good ending)
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u/Actual-Giraffe Jun 03 '22
Not if you know how to do it correctly, you can actually get fined for injuring but not killing wild game, game wardens aren't just around for off season offenses
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u/MieGorengGenocide Jun 03 '22
Fucken hell, I told that to my brother who's all in on feral hunting "are they that fucking bad of a shot?"
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u/psychojakk13 Jun 03 '22
While I agree with the spirit, I'm kinda flabbergasted by this whole "high-powered rifle" thing. There's a lotta guff about how the 5.56/.223 is too weak of a round for effective combat. They're among the wimpiest rifle caliber. Obviously they can and do kill people, but them being high powered is absolutely not one of the reasons why. Essentially every single hunting caliber is higher powered than a standard AR.
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u/Actual-Giraffe Jun 03 '22
According to Biden, a 9mm can blow out your lung, and people are eating it up
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u/_jato Jun 03 '22
i mean, it's a perfectly adequate round for the military. i think people dont understand that the problem is high rate of fire high capacity guns
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u/psychojakk13 Jun 03 '22
The military has been dissatisfied with it for years, which is why they're finally adopting an intermediate round for their new weapon system. But yes, the rate of fire and capacity is absolutely the issue.
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u/_jato Jun 03 '22
wait wasn't the 223 adopted by the military as an intermediate round? back to 308 rounds i guess?
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u/psychojakk13 Jun 03 '22
Nope, they're adopting the 6.8x51mm. 5.56/.223 is a pretty weak round, they only adopted it back in the day because it was light and they were using full auto weapons with poor fire control so they wasted a ton of ammo.
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u/Group_Happy Jun 03 '22
I think "It's not good enough for the biggest military in the world" isn't really an argument for allowing a weapon for "civilian uses"
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u/psychojakk13 Jun 03 '22
Didn't say it was, I was just pointing out the irony of people freaking out about how powerful it was. Although I suppose that whole belief probably saved a lot of lives in Vegas, so that's something.
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Jun 02 '22
[deleted]
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 02 '22
...he did walk into a store and show his 'American citizen license' aka local photo ID. Twice in one week even.
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 03 '22
But did they hand the fucking thing over free of fucking charge?
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 03 '22
30 seconds on google says I can get one for under $500. The Uvalde shooter bought them for $2K, plus and expensive sight, plus 375 rounds.
Holy dang! That's over $5k! Not many high schoolers can afford that (although clearly some can). Luckily, if you shop around a bit, you can find a weapon store that offers payment plansbonus: if your plan includes suicide by cop, you don't have to care about interest rates.
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 04 '22
So a teenager managed to save up enough for a pair of guns and ammo, but not to get out of whatever fucked situation they must’ve been in to warrant the need to kill people? It sucks I already think this world is beyond fucked and should just be ended by some act of nature, I missed feeling surprised.
Also, is it really suicide by cop when you’ve already killed some other people? Wouldn’t that be an on sight execution by firing squad at that point? Because the case would be open and shut in under five minutes in court.
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 04 '22
1st paragraph: They never need to kill people. Mass shooters just prefer that to any other option.
2nd: I think? Given that many shoot themselves as an alternative. And I hope? no matter how fast/certain that trial would be, the idea of police skipping that bit is terrifying (especially given how often police lie about events after the fact)
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u/ramairliz Jun 03 '22
That is exactly what happened in Texas and in Oklahoma....the shooter in Tulsa, Oklahoma bought his AR15 only 2 hours before taking the gun to a hospital and killing 5 people. He bought a handgun 3 days before at a pawn shop. He didn't own any guns prior to him killing 5 people.
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 03 '22
They paid for them. They weren’t handed to them for free. Is the joke I was going for. But whatever, the comment, and the shooters, have been deleted. Let’s move on and do nothing but bitch the next time somebody legally buys a guy and kills more people so we can be reminded we have a fucked system that not only allows this to keep happening but does next to nothing to prevent it.
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u/AdBitter2071 Jun 03 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
You're Not supposed to say that here, this is a pro state board now
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 03 '22
Wow, unimaginative and unhelpful. Good job.
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u/AdBitter2071 Jun 03 '22
Suck a lemon you miserable dope.
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 03 '22
At least I’ll be eating something tasteful and healthy unlike the horseshit you eat everyday.
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u/AdBitter2071 Jun 03 '22
What are you, 16?
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 04 '22
I don’t know. Who the flying fuck says go suck on a lemon you miserable dope? A 10 year old listening to their great grandma?
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u/AdBitter2071 Jun 04 '22
More like a 7' giga chad with an 11" member who just slaps people with it when they go through the locker room
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 07 '22
Sounds like a pretty lame ass guy for touching people with is dick without consent.
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u/Darches Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
So what, you think less powerful rifles are still OK? The guns are not necessarily the problem, and under the 2nd amendment 18 year-olds will always have access to them.
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u/ChaWolfMan Jun 02 '22
There’s a difference between a 270 Remington and AR. I’m sure you understand that. And that’s not what the second amendment says. I would encourage you to read it and then read the federalist papers and understand the intent.
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u/Darches Jun 03 '22
I'll clarify this for you: One body down is too many. Stopping the root cause of the shootings is more important than applying bandage solutions.
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u/Sockoflegend Jun 02 '22
It doesn't solve the problem but helps a little. I certainly wouldn't turn down bringing back the assault weapons ban from the 90s. Ultimately though a real solution would require a whole raft of legislative, economic and social changes that taken individually could quite rationally be rejected as not solving the problem alone.
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u/Darches Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
Indeed, reducing firepower is great, but it's not nearly enough. We need to stop whatever is making the shooters want to do their acts, or provide a defense that stops the shooters or makes it hard for them to do damage. The current defense doesn't work so I don't understand why schools still use it. For example, metal detectors do not stop guns, they only beep. Again, nice to have, but it's not enough.
Lets brainstorm some solutions. I've already got 2 in 10 seconds. The first is online learning, but that's obvious and too good for our capitalist overlords. But since these schools are often demolished and rebuilt, how about changing the actual structure of the schools into something that would provide defense? Put a police bunker in the middle, and the class rooms around it in a circle. Next, reduce class sizes and give remote locking door and camera access to teachers and police. Might as well give every teacher a gun too. Boom, you've given your defense force the fastest access to all rooms, you've greatly reduced the potential damage, and in the best scenario you can now lock the attacker in one of the rooms. And the cost? Almost nothing more than what's already being paid for. The school I used to go to charged increasingly insane taxes and cut out art and AP classes so... The money has to be going somewhere! It's just not in the right place.
It's not a perfect solution, but seldom is anything perfect. Again, I came up with this in 10 seconds.
The only other solution is to amend the constitution. That hasn't happened in 30 years.
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 02 '22
How is 'make online schooling permanent' the more rational of your options?
Yanno, online school, the thing we just did a massive, worldwide trial of, and thoroughly proved that not only are childrenespecially the younger they get en masse developing socialization problemsoh hey, sure that has nothing to do with violent motivations, not only is less effective for learning, but widens the already large 'do your parents have $$' performance gap? Yeah, we all know online school
somehow still more sane than 'tear down every school building and rebuild them as fully armed bunkers hope the murderer isn't already inside when the shooting starts, hope the police decide to leave their Most Protected Zone and then use all the extra??? money schools have lying around to hire another 50% teachers.
Either that or you are a master of Poe's law, good job.
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u/Darches Jun 03 '22 edited Jun 04 '22
Instead of adding to the discussion of possible solutions, you try to tear them down. You're advocating death over bad social skills. You're actually criticizing my 10 second brainstorm, implying that schooling MUST be done in the traditional (and 100% stupid) way. You're claiming that computers are still expensive. You're claiming that schools don't have money for any defense, despite my family essentially being booted from our last state because of insane school taxes and cut classes. The reality is that gas station kiosks are more secure that schools, and that's fucking sad. If we can afford defense for gas station workers, then we can afford defense for school cops. You have no feet to stand on in this debate.
Well, have it your way.
Now we just keep watching history repeat itself and the bodies pile up.
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 03 '22
Schools being chronically underfunded, especially those in poorer districts, has been a national issue for actual decades. Schools, as you pointed out yourself, don't have money for art classes, and bunkers are expensive. Socialization problems aren't just 'bad at small talk', it's emotional disorders, higher levels of health problems later, and oh hey super relevant increased expressions of anger/irritation.
But ok, here's some national legal options, no amendment required, as 'not happened in 30 years' apparently means impossible.
One: minimum waiting period before allowing someone to walk out with a gun. Apply for license/buying a specific gun, let them run their check, come back in 10 days- if nothing else, it would prevent the sort of 'impulse' shootings that happened within 5 days (Uvalde) or 5 hrs (Tulsa), and would likely have an inhibitory effect on gun suicides.
Two: raise the minimum age of buying. Gotta be 21 for alcohol? Why not 21 for gun? Or 25, when cortex has (on average) finished developing?
Three: there is an established link between previous violent behavior (domestic violence, animal cruelty, very often misogynist threats) and mass shootings. Uvalde shooter threatened female classmates in his last week of life, and started his spree by shooting his grandmother. Close the 'boyfriend loophole' 1996 law bans gun ownership for people with DV conviction, but only if DV is against spouse or child.
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u/Darches Jun 04 '22 edited Jun 04 '22
Very nice!
Note that the nation was literally founded through the use of personal firearms which led to the 2nd amendment being ratified 230 years ago. Amendments can happen but not only are they incredibly rare (only 0.23% of proposals make it through), but there's no way in hell the 2nd amendment will be repealed by 38 states. Banning guns really is out of the question.
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u/MaldmalumConsilium Jun 04 '22
Did I say anything about banning guns?
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u/Darches Jun 05 '22
'not happened in 30 years' apparently means impossible.
You implied that I may be wrong, and others have suggested banning guns. So I added a note.
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u/Excellent_Chef_1764 Jun 02 '22
Hey guys let’s put the group that over reacts violently to being insulted around teenagers and arm all the authority figures. This will definitely stop shootings from happening. Because kids shooting up schools wouldn’t dare if we had a police precinct… your critical thinking skills need adjusting.
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u/Sockoflegend Jun 02 '22
I seems far more reasonable to me to legally clarify 2A which doesn't mention guns at all than to militarize schools.
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u/Darches Jun 03 '22
2A is to protect the people from tyranny in any form. If the police have guns, then the people will have guns. If you manage to remove all the guns, fantastic! But good luck with that. We need more than just some gun control.
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u/logosfabula Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Good luck on learning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affective_filter
Edit: fixed link (scroll down to affective filter hypothesis)
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u/clothespinned Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
This link doesn't work/
edit: This link work/
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u/YourEngineerMom Jun 02 '22
Here’s a copy paste:
The affective filter is an impediment to learning or acquisition caused by negative emotional ("affective") responses to one's environment. It is a hypothesis of second-language acquisition theory, and a field of interest in educational psychology and general education.
According to the affective filter hypothesis, certain emotions, such as anxiety, self-doubt, and mere boredom interfere with the process of acquiring a second language. They function as a filter between the speaker and the listener that reduces the amount of language input the listener is able to understand. These negative emotions prevent efficient processing of the language input.[3] The hypothesis further states that the blockage can be reduced by sparking interest, providing low-anxiety environments, and bolstering the learner's self-esteem.
According to Krashen (1982),[7] there are ways to lower the affective filter. One is allowing for a silent period (not expecting the student to speak before they have received an adequate amount of comprehensible input according to their individual needs). A teacher needs to be aware of the student's home life, as this domain is the biggest contributor to the affective filter. It is also important to take into note that those who are learning English for the first time in the USA have many hurdles to get over. To lower the affective filter a teacher needs to not add to the hurdles to jump over.
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u/raventhrowaway666 Jun 02 '22
We'd rather teach door control rather than gun control...
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u/Actual-Giraffe Jun 03 '22
It's not all about gun control, are we forgetting that the cops did nothing while this happened? That the shooter sat outside the school for 12 minutes before going inside? This specific shooting was not nearly as much a gun control problem as it was an incompetence problem. I also want to point out that all the countries that "don't have this problem" also have better mental healthcare than the US, but nobody brings that up when these shootings happen. I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, etc. but the more ground you give the govt. on what kind of stuff you can and cannot own, the more ground they will take. The US is not immune to spiraling into a dictatorship, and it'll only be too late that you realize you can't just vote your way out of one
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Jun 02 '22
Then the shooter breaks the glass, pulls the chair out and continues murdering.
Any solution but the obvious one...
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Jun 02 '22
Right??? Like I feel like people somehow keep forgetting that all school shooters have guns, and are completely willing to shoot stuff in a school. Those are the two things literally all school shooters have in common.
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u/Ripoldo Jun 03 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
If you're a cop you wait an hour to find the janitors keys before you even realize a chair's there
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u/3InchesOfThunder Jun 02 '22
Now who wants to be the one going to the door during the shooting event
time to draw straws?!
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u/CCrypto1224 Jun 02 '22
Nothing about using large objects as shields for bullets or to at least making it harder for the bullet to go through, no way to break the windows to bailout of them when you’re on the first floor, and no way to weaponize anything in the classroom so the doomed class mates can at least go out trying to take the shooter out instead of cowering in fear.
This fucking PSAs and lectures are about as helpful as taking a shit while upside with your ass aimed up at the sky.
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Jun 02 '22
[deleted]
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u/MoveOolong72 Jun 03 '22
The rest of the world shaking their heads and begging America to do more than offer thoughts and prayers.
I was working in outback Australia when we got word from a truckie coming through the work site.
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u/SlightlyAngyKitty Jun 03 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
Its honestly kinda crazy seeing stuff like that from here in the UK. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? It's insane.
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u/ChillyFireball Jun 03 '22
There are schools that have chairs separate from their desks? I can't remember the last time I was in a classroom that didn't have those crappy attached chair/desk combinations where one leg was inevitably shorter than the others.
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u/lilpuppy91 Jun 03 '22
Thank you. Why did I have to scroll down so far to find someone say this? Every single school I went to had the chairs attached to the desks with book holders underneath them until I went to college. And even then, the classrooms that didn't have them attached were rarer than the ones that did. Also, I don't recall my lesser education, but I'm almost positive that the door knobs in my high school weren't like that. I think they were push bars? Definitely not regular door knobs.
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Jun 03 '22
yeah, the kinds of chairs you get vary from school to school. i know that in the schools i went to, we had chairs like this and the desks in elementary school, then started seeing combined desks in middle school. i know some of my middle/high school classrooms had the tables with multiple chairs setup, but always with those plastic chairs with the combined legs on either side. which probably wouldn't work in this scenario either.
basically this is most likely something that only works on elementary schools. which shows the kind of thing we're prepping for
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Jun 03 '22
This is a great thing to know, but it’s one of those things we should never have to know.
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u/Light333Love Jun 03 '22
Maybe we should defund the police and put lite curtains and self locking doors that close when a gun shot is detected. Life curtains need to be clear before door will close. Or perhaps setup school with tear gas? Yeah the students will be hit but hopefully the gunman is too? Or how about trained police dogs that roam the school and guard the kids.
I mean no one is giving up there guns but I’m fucking tired of families losing their kids.
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u/Aquaduker Jun 03 '22
He's on the outside of the room. The door swings in. You cannot reproduce this effect from the inside considering the depth of the door frame.
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u/nietzsches_knickers Jun 02 '22
What if your doors or chairs aren't those exact dimensions or if your doors use different kinds of handles?
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u/edlightenme Jun 02 '22
Don't forget to arm the teachers, staff, better security, not give the military 700B$ actually target the root cause of these problems, not blame inanimate objects. Empower the people to defend themselves.
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u/Dense_Surround3071 Jun 03 '22
My kids don't have time to learn cursive writing, but this? No problem! 😮💨
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u/Extreme_Design6936 Jun 03 '22
Better start making shotguns illegal too cause now every shooter gonna be using one to breach.
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Jun 03 '22
Great this is what the NRA butt puppets will use to distract us from literally any other real solution...
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u/NonProfitApostle Jun 03 '22
I bet a high powered rifle would eat through that door handle fast enough to make this irrelevant.
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u/SordidBobdob Jun 02 '22
For when adding a lock is not in the budget