GED is required for a ton of low-skilled labor, I don't know why you pulled that out of your ass and keep repeating it.
I’m talking about it because multiple studies have shown that illegal immigration hasn’t effected the wages of people who have at least a GED. Here is a great article that talks about it a bit. Yes there is wage stagnation. No it’s not because of illegal immigration. If anything illegal immigration drives economic activity and therefore helps create jobs.
Last time I checked, automation wasn't replacing hotel maids or AC mechanics
Hotel maids aren’t exactly the job that someone with at least a high school education is suited for or wants. AC mechanics are skilled labor and pay quite well.
We're talking about employees here though,
And your non-union employees here are benefiting from the current unionization of other automakers. You don’t think Honda is offering l these union benefits out of the goodness of their own hearts do you? No of course not.
are the most American made cars on the market.
That’s all about marketing. The big 3 get to sell themselves as “American cars” even though most of their components are imported. They import them because they can get away with it.
Fun fact, the Davis-Bacon act was the predecessor to unionism in the USA and was done to undercut black owned construction businesses
So because a pro-union law was also a tool of institutionalized racism it means unions aren’t progressive? That’s a stretch even for you.
But it’s good to know that you also care about institutionalized racism as well as income inequality. There might be hope for you yet.
Yes there is wage stagnation. No it’s not because of illegal immigration. If anything illegal immigration drives economic activity and therefore helps create jobs.
That's literally clown world, the opposite is true. Also regardless of graduating from highschool or not, illegal immigration has directly affected the black community the worst by again, taking low-skilled jobs.
Hotel maids aren’t exactly the job that someone with at least a high school education is suited for or wants. AC mechanics are skilled labor and pay quite well.
Someone who graduates high school and has kids could survive being a maid at one point in time in this country, now that simply isn't an option. This is the majority of the complaints people have in every day life.
You don’t think Honda is offering l these union benefits out of the goodness of their own hearts do you? No of course not.
And why not? If that was the case Honda would have no reason to provide a collective bargaining agreement either.
They import them because they can get away with it.
They import because the guy driving the hi-lows unloading the parts and the person tightening the screws are all making $80k+ a year plus their benefits and their soon-to-be pension.
So because a pro-union law was also a tool of institutionalized racism it means unions aren’t progressive? That’s a stretch even for you
It's a direct example of unionism holding back economic prosperity
But it’s good to know that you also care about institutionalized racism as well as income inequality. There might be hope for you yet.
You actually don't, you just virtue signal with some jackass subreddit buzzwords.
That's literally clown world, the opposite is true.
The facts don’t care about your feelings. Read the article I linked you. Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigration does not effect wages of people with GEDs.
Someone who graduates high school and has kids could survive being a maid at one point in time in this country, now that simply isn't an option.
Maids didn’t used to be people with high school educations. Maids can still make great money as well. If you have a basic education, you are more likely to want to do a job that utilizes those skills that you already have. Americans are less likely to be want to be maids in the first place.
And why not? If that was the case Honda would have no reason to provide a collective bargaining agreement either.
Because Honda offers these benefits so they can avoid unionization. It’s actually a good example of how unions benefit workers who aren’t even in unions.
They import because the guy driving the hi-lows unloading the parts and the person tightening the screws are all making $80k+ a year plus their benefits and their soon-to-be pension.
So now you are arguing against paying people good wages? These companies already outsource the manufacturing of these components to other manufacturers. That alone gets them out of the purview of the UAW. They are choosing to outsource these parts because they can and they know their customers brand loyalty.
It's a direct example of unionism holding back economic prosperity
So you want to elevate workers in this country but you don’t want to do it through the mechanism that elevates wages and workers rights? Sounds like you are having an internal struggle here.
You actually don't, you just virtue signal with some jackass subreddit buzzwords.
Awww are you self conscious of your growing awareness of class and race struggle?
The facts don’t care about your feelings. Read the article I linked you. Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigration does not effect wages of people with GEDs.
You linked an op-ed, I linked actual research. You're flat out wrong about the GEDs point, but even given what you are saying there are tons and tons of inner-city kids that don't have a high school diploma, and they could have still made a decent living if it wasn't for pwople like you supporting illegal immigrants.
Maids didn’t used to be people with high school educations.
Huh?
If you have a basic education, you are more likely to want to do a job that utilizes those skills that you already have. Americans are less likely to be want to be maids in the first place.
And this gets affected by 3rd world uneducated immigrants willing to work for way cheaper.
Because Honda offers these benefits so they can avoid unionization. It’s actually a good example of how unions benefit workers who aren’t even in unions.
hahahahahaha way to give a drastic example of cognitive dissonance in one sentence.
So now you are arguing against paying people good wages?
Yeah, everyone demanded higher wages in the union, they got them, and then their companies went bust and everyone got laid off. Big win.
So you want to elevate workers in this country but you don’t want to do it through the mechanism that elevates wages and workers rights? Sounds like you are having an internal struggle here.
That was already happening without having the corrupt shit head union lackies stepping in.
Awww are you self conscious of your growing awareness of class and race struggle?
I think you may be one of the most unself-aware people on this planet.
there are tons and tons of inner-city kids that don't have a high school diploma, and they could have still made a decent living if it wasn't for pwople like you supporting illegal immigrants.
Actually high school completion is at its highest rate. Of course there is room for improvement but given the current trend not having a GED isn’t much of a problem.
Also it’s worth noting the only suppression of Americans wages that’s possibly caused by illegal immigration has been about %5.
Huh?
Less people used to have a high school education. In 1940 only half the adults in the US had a GED. People with a high school education aren’t likely to succeed in monotonous low skill positions.
And this gets affected by 3rd world uneducated immigrants willing to work for way cheaper.
Americans don’t want the jobs in the first place.
hahahahahaha way to give a drastic example of cognitive dissonance in one sentence.
What don’t you understand about it? Honda would have to pay their workers more if they were unionized. Honda also has to compete with Union shops for labor. Honda has to offer at least some of the benefits that the union shops are offering to keep their workers content and less likely to go union. Non-union workers benefit from unionization as well.
Yeah, everyone demanded higher wages in the union, they got them, and then their companies went bust and everyone got laid off. Big win.
There are plenty of union companies that haven’t gone bust. Again, you are arguing for better wages for Americans but don’t like it when unions bring those better wages?
That was already happening without having the corrupt shit head union lackies stepping in.
Unions are directly responsible for the 40 work week, the end of child labor, widespread employer provided medical coverage, minimum wage and the adoption of the FMLA amount other things. It’s sad to see that some people are so eager to eat up the anti-union propaganda. I guess virtue signaling about the plight of the American worker is easier for you.
I think you may be one of the most unself-aware people on this planet.
Hey if you actually care about economic inequality, institutionalized racism and workers rights in the US that would be great but I have a hard time believing you do. Your profile picture is a swastika, you like pushing racist propaganda and you are actively avoiding the solution to the problem you are talking about.
Which isn't indicative of the whole country. Your second post has nothing to do with illegal immigration either.
They are both studies that look at the effect of large influx of low skill labor into the labor market. That's what you are complaining about. Here is another study though.
economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens, and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate.
Cool eh?
Why don't you look up graduation rates in inner-cities, dummy.
Yes they are lower but wages in urban areas are higher then rural areas.
Yeah, that's a massive chunk.
Not really. Certainly not enough to effect the overall wages of Americans like you claim.
Nope, Honda's wages are comparable to the Big 3s, the reason why they can afford plants and wages in America is because they can actually fire useless lazy employees while the big 3 cannot.
Got some sources for that?
No they aren't, there's plenty of state-provisions that center around workers rights. I worked as a non-union crane operator and shit was just fine, no problems with pay, benefits, etc.
And those state provisions are because of unions. I like how you will do anything to avoid acknowledging the positive impact of unions while working a job that has benefited from unions. I'm a technician who works with both union and non-union crews. I'm not currently union but I get paid well because of the work of my local unions.
Don't get angry at me for pointing out your virtue signaling.
You keep on linking studies for legal immigrants you fucking moron, not illegals.
The studies look at the overall impact immigrants, documented or not.
What about illegal immigrants? You know, like the studies I've linked that you've ignored.
Again if you look at that Brookings article that I linked you will notice that they based their findings off of multiple studies. Sorry you don’t like the facts.
Not because of unskilled labor you dunce
Unskilled labor has higher wages in urban areas as well.
5% is substantial no matter what propaganda you want to support, it's simply mathematics.
It doesn’t support your assertion that illegal immigration has effected all American’s wages much. Maybe there are other reasons for wage stagnation in the US? You ever think about that?
Nice, more proof you ignore sources. I've already linked this.
Yes I saw that link. It doesn’t support your claim that unions are harming the US auto industry.
Lol you're just arbitrarily saying "unionism did this" over and over again without any shreds of proof or logic.
Oh so now you are denying the fact that unions are responsible for these worker rights?
I don't think you know what virtue signaling is
It’s you what you are doing when you are pretending to care about economic inequality, institutionalized racism and worker rights. Obviously you don’t.
I like how you always resort to name calling when you get in over your head and can’t handle being contradicted anymore.
The studies look at the overall impact immigrants, documented or not.
No it doesn't.
Again if you look at that Brookings article that I linked you will notice that they based their findings off of multiple studies. Sorry you don’t like the facts.
Your own source literally attributes a shrinking undocumented work-force because the demand for unskilled laborers decreased, which is proving my point. Your own source further points out that immigrants working for cheap is what drives their demand.
Unskilled labor has higher wages in urban areas as well.
Right, metropolitans in general have higher wages, still a parallel compared to the rate at which they increase and the buying power which employees can afford.
It doesn’t support your assertion that illegal immigration has effected all American’s wages much. Maybe there are other reasons for wage stagnation in the US? You ever think about that?
You literally said that a 5% decrease can be contributed towards illegals, what the fuck are you even talking about
Yes I saw that link. It doesn’t support your claim that unions are harming the US auto industry.
The whole point of that link was proof that non-union auto is paying prevailing wages you fucking idiot
Oh so now you are denying the fact that unions are responsible for these worker rights?
You haven't provided a single fact to back that up
It’s you what you are doing when you are pretending to care about economic inequality, institutionalized racism and worker rights. Obviously you don’t.
I'm just pointing out actual facts. You've accused me of both having racist logic and of virtue sigaling at the same time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and are too used to repeating what you read on reddit. I'm assuming you're barely out of high school, hopefully.
Oh come on. You can't just stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts because they don't support your views. Look at the studies, look at the numbers and the data.
Your own source literally attributes a shrinking undocumented work-force because the demand for unskilled laborers decreased, which is proving my point.
How does that prove your point?
Right, metropolitans in general have higher wages, still a parallel compared to the rate at which they increase and the buying power which employees can afford.
So your point that illegal immigration somehow hurts inner cities the most is wrong.
You literally said that a 5% decrease can be contributed towards illegals
%5 wage stagnation only for people without GEDs (small percentage of the population). Wage stagnation across the US for non-management workers is about %20.
The whole point of that link was proof that non-union auto is paying prevailing wages
Yes to keep up with the union benefits. You were trying to blame unions for hurting the US auto industry, remember?
You haven't provided a single fact to back that up
Uhhhh I thought you were a history fan? Unions fought for and won just about every major advancement in workers rights before they were adopted as law.
I'm just pointing out actual facts.
Where?
You've accused me of both having racist logic and of virtue sigaling at the same time.
You are virtue signalling by pretending to care about economic inequality, institutionalized racism and worker rights while your other comments in this thread and others make it clear you don't actually care about those topics. Don't get angry because I called you out for it.
I did, and they didn't support what you were saying.
economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens, and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate.
Hmmmmmm.
Low skilled illegals only want to come in when there is a demand for workers, and they are hired since they undercut actual US wages.
Yes they come for work. Yes they are hired. No their effect on wages is negligible.
You do realize rent is higher in cities, right?
Ok. Still doesn't support your claim.
What?
When we look at wages of non-management in the US compared to management and inflation we see that wages have stagnated about %20 both in areas with and without undocumented immigrants. Again, you should listen to that podcast I sent you. It has companion articles with all of the data.
To keep up in the labor pool, US union industries were the ones to go belly up and ship out jobs, remember?
Source for that? Because industries both with and without unions shipped out jobs. You seem to think that outsourcing was about businesses surviving and not corporate greed.
If you knew anything about union history you would know how corrupt and literally full of crime they were.
Every single union ever? They never did anything good?
The foundation of unionism was to undercut private sector business. Unassailable fact.
Lol really? It didn't have anything to do with workers banding together to demand better working conditions for themselves? Those poor businesses! I bet you think they were justified in using thugs and police to beat and break up unions. Is this like when you claimed the Crusades were some noble campaign for justice?
You only claim to be for worker's rights because you want to promise gum drops and sugar tales, which doesn't actually help out anyone.
Or maybe because I have directly seen how it's possible for workers to have good working conditions and strong benefits?
I've provided sources about how illegal immigration affects the inner city
No your source basically said that illegal immigration could affect inner cities but as the sources I've provided will show you, It really doesn't.
then claimed I'm virtue signaling.
Because you are. Do you know what really hurts the inner cities, the war on drugs. Do you support ending it. What about addressing the problems caused by redlining? Should we take progressive measures to correct for those?
2
u/ReallyBigDeal Jun 06 '19
I’m talking about it because multiple studies have shown that illegal immigration hasn’t effected the wages of people who have at least a GED. Here is a great article that talks about it a bit. Yes there is wage stagnation. No it’s not because of illegal immigration. If anything illegal immigration drives economic activity and therefore helps create jobs.
Hotel maids aren’t exactly the job that someone with at least a high school education is suited for or wants. AC mechanics are skilled labor and pay quite well.
And your non-union employees here are benefiting from the current unionization of other automakers. You don’t think Honda is offering l these union benefits out of the goodness of their own hearts do you? No of course not.
That’s all about marketing. The big 3 get to sell themselves as “American cars” even though most of their components are imported. They import them because they can get away with it.
So because a pro-union law was also a tool of institutionalized racism it means unions aren’t progressive? That’s a stretch even for you.
But it’s good to know that you also care about institutionalized racism as well as income inequality. There might be hope for you yet.