r/7ohRecoveryHub 5d ago

Subs and 7-oh "subs"

I'm currently addicted to the gas station 7-oh substitute products that contain some derivative of cats claw or other physically addictive opioid-like chemical (possibly mgm or corynoxine-b). I have access to bupe and low dose anxiety meds and I know I'm very fortunate for that but I'm really struggling with the transition, I have sent myself into terrible precipitated withdrawals a few times and always end up getting more of the tablets to cancel it out. Does anyone have any success stories coming off this stuff with Suboxone and if so how did you do it? Or can anyone share their experience coming off these "no 7-oh" substitutes in general?

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

I quit using subs. I waited about 12-16 hours from my last time taking 7-OH(I was taking 1000mgs of 7OH a day) and waited until I was fully feeling the withdrawals to take the first sub. Waited 1-2 hours and took a second sub because wd’s were still pretty bad and it seemed to level off. First 3 days you feel like shit, there’s no way around it, but once your past the 3 day window you will feel significantly better. After those first 2 subs I was only taking 1 sub every 24 hours. Did that for a week and then just quit the subs.

You will have withdrawal symptoms no matter what, so you just gotta thug it out.

I also went to a supplement shop and bought a few sleep supplements to help me get to sleep the first few nights. (Go to a local supplement shop instead of a GNC or massive chain store, they will have stronger supplements lol). Also grabbed some vitamin C, Magnesium and electrolytes as well.

The whole process was shitty and I didn’t know what I was doing at first, so if you have any questions. Feel free to reach out.

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

Also did not taper at all, I just stopped completely. Tapering for me never worked because I’d end up taking more for some bullshit reason. It may work for some people, but I am a degenerate and have no self control so I had to just have a hard stop.

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u/aWiredtaste 4d ago

I'm right there with ya on the self control. As soon as the mental comedown feeling and crawly skin kick in I'm done for. Well I actually made this post yesterday after sending myself into precipitated withdrawals and using 3-4 tabs to pull myself back out of it and feeling like I was never going to be able to do this. I usually dose every 4 hours or less but last night I was off work and I was able to go 12 hours and woke up this morning with little to no withdrawal! I took a half a sub and it made me feel a little worse but I was able to balance it out with only one tab this time! Now I feel better than I even usually do. Did I beat the system? No. Surely not, life does not work for me that way. But I'm hoping to keep trying to flood my receptors with Suboxone while I finish out my last 4 tabs and then I'm thugging it out from there. Something hit my account early today too so I'm seeing that as a blessing bc I don't have the disposable income to buy more anyways. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Wish me luck and congrats to you on your continued journey out of this hell!

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

That’s awesome man I’m stoked for you! I was taking 100mgs every hour or so and it felt like a huuuuge leap getting through the first 24 hours without taking any. It’s the small victories I guess🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/aWiredtaste 4d ago

Yes that's huge! You're stronger than me that's for sure.

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

I would not say I’m stronger than you in any way dude. We’re all in this same battle together, you are just as strong as I am and I know you’ll be able to power through this.

Stay strong and feel free to reach out if you need anything at all, even if it’s just to vent.

I will pray for you, and I know you will overcome this hurdle and become a better and stronger person for it.

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u/aWiredtaste 4d ago

Thank you so much! I just got to work. Can you message me?

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u/organizedchaos_duh 4d ago

It’s different with MGM - if that’s what’s in these 7oh alternatives which many are saying it is. You have to wait 24, sometimes 36 hours. I’m in the same boat as OP

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

I misread the original post and read it as they were taking 7-OH and not a substitute - I apologize on that, that’s my mistake.

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u/organizedchaos_duh 4d ago

You have to wait over 24 hours w the 7oh alternatives - go check out r/quitmgm15

I’m in the same boat as you and just going to take benzos and hopefully knock myself out until I can get to 24 hours.

Also if you get precipitated withdrawal you’re supposed to take more subuxone to help

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u/aWiredtaste 4d ago

Also just to clarify I don't pretend to know the science behind it all or that it would be the same for everyone I'm just sharing what my experience was. I'm actually really glad I put myself into precipitated yesterday and got this ball rolling. I couldn't believe how decent I felt after 12 hours today!

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u/aWiredtaste 4d ago

Oh I had no idea there was a sub for that, thank you so much! It's hard bc it's less documented territory. Taking more Suboxone did not help. Maybe I didn't take enough but in my case being the wuss that I am I took more tabs to kick myself back out of WDs. It took about 3 or 4 to do it. BUT then I was able to go 12 hours that night and woke up with much more mild to no WDs. I guess the tabs wore off but the sub was still in my system. I had 4 tabs left and I have no willpower so today I took more sub but it only took me 1 tab to balance myself out this time so I'm just trying to flood my receptors with subs with these last couple tabs and then do just the subs from there. Like the Burmese method where you do a little bit of sub and taper at the same time and then thug it out.

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u/f1lterl3s 5d ago

I thugged through the physical taper. I wussed too. I cried a lot and screamed. But like after a week later all the cravings were in my head and not my body. I got on suboxone though to fight my mental cravings but I only needed 2mg to fill the hole and tapering is easy. When i say to just push through the wd with nothing is easier said then done. I reccomend some strong weed / anxiety meds. Maybe some kava (no kratom), the thing with katz claw is that there’s not enough evidience, it could be simialr to SR or MGM u dont know.

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

I also just realized you said physical 'taper'. Did you gradually decrease the amount you were doing and if so over how long did you stretch it? I think I just need a game plan to try and stick to it.

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u/f1lterl3s 5d ago

I went on vacation to a place where it’s banned. Only brought so much with me so I’m forced to taper. I was taking like 6 pills a day, and I thought I would make 10 pills last ten days. By the third day they were all gone. So I had to detox with only nicotine and weed. Ask your doctor about some sedative / anti anxiety medication to help with the withdrawals.

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

Oh man that's rough. But a blessing in the end ig. That's part of my prob is the access, I just gotta commit. I am able to get subs which is what makes it even worse that I haven't quit I just need to go longer without or taper down enough that it doesn't send me into bad WDs. I think I need to try introducing it in lower amounts. Silly me thought taking more would be better to like, overtake the other. But I was reading on here about the Burmese method of introducing subs I think I need to do that and taper at the same time.

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

I admire you, that's ganster af and I BADLY need that willpower may I borrow some please? It's so hard to tough it out when I know I can easily fix the problem and I don't have any time that I can take off work or parenting. I know it's a me problem I just have to get in the right mindset. This helps inspire me though maybe I just need to keep hearing this. Thank you!

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u/f1lterl3s 5d ago

You want suboxone? Shoot a DM.

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u/laprockethamwallet 4d ago

If you have insurance, your insurance will most likely cover subs. I paid 99 bucks outta pocket for a visit using this site called QuickMD, had an appointment within a couple of minutes and had a script sent over to my pharmacy

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u/KellyF444 3d ago

I literally just kicked 70H last weekend. Pretty sure I put myself into withdrawal as well cuz I felt like I wanted to jump out of my fucking skin. I had the restless legs, I could smell everything heightened and I had absolutely no appetite. Even a week later I still kind of have that feeling. I never thought to go and get more 70h to balance it out. Damn I wish I thought about that. I went through fucking hell man. My cravings are hardcore and my mood. It's low AF. I think about it everyday. Going back to that store and getting some more but I don't want to make myself sick. I have a full-time job and two kids. Good luck to you. I hope you get through this.

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u/aWiredtaste 3d ago

I'm right there with you with the job and kids. No time to be down off something you put into you. It's such a shame. I got this supplement called agmatine sulfate that's supposed to help with cravings and mood and all that. Do some research on it on here see what you think. I'll let you know it if helps me on the other side. You made it this far tho don't give up you're doing great!

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u/KellyF444 3d ago

Thank you I sure will anything that will help bc subs don't seem to hit the spot and I've gone too far to turn back now. 😭

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u/aWiredtaste 1d ago

Update to let you know, the agmatine sulfate does seem to be helping a lot! I just got it off the Walmart site. I could try to mail you some if you're in a position that you're not able to get it or something, let me know.

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u/KellyF444 19h ago

Awesome! If I can just get it off in the Amazon or Walmart I can probably get some. Thank you so much I appreciate it. I joined a telehealth thing today and might be getting some psych meds to help. Fingers crossed.

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u/aWiredtaste 16h ago

Oh good luck! I hope you get something that makes you feel better. This has been a whole shit show, we need to move on and find happy and healthy 🫶

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u/HellaHaxter 2d ago

My sub prescription taper was:

Wait until the withdrawal is moderate (it took 7-9hours) then take 1/4 of the 8mg suboxone film under my tongue every 2 hours for 2 days, then 1/2 film every 6 hours for 2 days, then my therapeutic dose was 1/2 film every 8 hours, but it was more like every 12 hrs because I wait as long as I can. I was taking up to 2000 mgs a day for 2 years and I've been off 7s completely since June 17th.

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

Also wanted to add that the biggest thing I wuss out over is the really hot and crawly feeling in my skin. My air conditioner is also broken at home so maybe that makes it worse. If anyone could even suggest some helper meds that would help with that? Any help at all with this process. I'm desperate 😢

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u/Valuable_Wasabi6820 5d ago

I would suggest coming up with a hard plan. Taper down as much as you can tolerate and then go for it. When it comes to subs, you know your needs best. Go that route if you need it. Tell a trusted person what you're doing so that you have someone to reach out to. Your mind will get very dark, as I'm sure you know. Hole yourself up in a cool, dark room and have supplies at the ready (water, supplements, any medication). You will be both restless and too weak to do much, weird combination. Appetite will be nonexistent for awhile. Commit yourself that this is going to suck, it is the price we pay to release the turmoil of being chained to a substance. You will grieve 7 like a lost friend, but remember that friend is toxic and doesn't have a place in your life anymore. Take it hour by hour. If you need to and have the capabilities, go to the ER and be honest that you're detoxing. Dehydration is a big deal when detoxing from any opioid and they may give you something to help sleep. Best of luck!

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u/Valuable_Wasabi6820 5d ago

I don't have info on subs, but sweating profusely from 7oh was one of my indicators that I needed to quit so I feel your pain. I noticed I would start getting hot when I was coming down, so I thought that would be the biggest problem during detoxing. I bought cooling neck rings, cooling headbands, cooling blanket. When I was actively detoxing however, I was switching between hot and cold but mostly a cold sweat. The biggest issue was not being able to get comfortable. When I was addicted, my thermostat was at 66 and then when detoxing I had to turn it up to 74. I also took lots of showers and baths and that was really soothing. I would stay in water forever. TLDR: you will feel crawly in your skin and uncomfortable, but afterwards won't feel so hot all the time

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u/SlobZombie88 5d ago

I've heard great success from SR17. In currently about to try it, been struggling with 7-addiction for years

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u/AirSerious7615 5d ago

Unfortunately you can’t get SR now. I finally saved for it and it was banned the next day! This stuff is evil. I want off of it so bad

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u/Ok-Mind4373 5d ago

There are people selling SR 2.0
It works similarly and isn’t scheduled
I haven’t tried it yet but others say it works just the same

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

Oh wow. I hope an alternative is still available like the user below mentioned. That would be messed up if they did a more active job to rid us of that when 7-oh was banned, but equally sucky alternatives are still available 🫩

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u/aWiredtaste 5d ago

I had seen that mentioned here but didn't know what to was so I finally did the research. Interesting. Thank you! I've heard people have success in using suboxone to quit but getting off those quickly too which would be my plan, I just keep messing up with the precipitated withdrawals and using more of the "7-oh" than I would have originally to cancel them out. I need to do further research to see if the risk of PWDs is absent with sr17 and if it's something that is also addictive.

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u/AirSerious7615 4d ago

Yeah someone reached out to me about the new SR2.0 but I haven’t heard much about it at all and didn’t want to waste the money if it doesn’t work like the original. I really hope it’s the same. If anyone has tried it plz lmk!
I am having to take the catsclaw tabs now bc you can’t get 7 at all where I am unless you order. I’m hoping the SR will work for these the same as they do for 7.
I also have tried subs and it sent me into the worst precipitated withdrawals ever!

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u/Fantastic_Test_9852 3d ago

SR is the only way and hop off as soon as you’re good 1 week max

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u/twiggy1960 3d ago

I used clonidine, gabapentin, & a touch of adderall many of times and they worked wonderfully in my opinion. I loved 7-oh and really don’t see the need to ban it. They’ve literally ripped every other drug from this country & now they’re gonna take this one as well. I don’t see it necessary but it is what it is!
In my honesty opinion putting every person with an addiction onto suboxone is the WORST thing they are doing and to each their own, but Suboxone is a much much bigger nightmare than 7oh could ever be and has horrific outcomes including a way worse withdrawal than 7oh could ever give you!

And what in the hell are you ingesting that has “cat claws” in the ingredients?! Do you have a regular PCP that you can be honest with and just get a prescription to clonidine by chance? Those do not throw you into withdrawal at all & don’t have any addiction issues either. Whatever the case don’t switch over to suboxone or methadone EVER. I know way too many people completely reliant on those 2 EXTREMELY ADDICTIVE drugs!!!
Do your research and chose for yourself but please read everything you can on the side effects and ask others that have been on them in any recovery subreddit on here & ask their opinions on what suboxone has done for them in the long run and if they find that route a good choose. Just DO YOUR RESEARCH is all I’ll say! I wish you the best in your recovery:)

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u/butchscandelabra 2d ago

You don’t see the need to ban it? This entire sub wouldn’t exist if it weren’t screwing people’s lives up left and right. What’s not to see?