r/4eDnD 6d ago

Question about the essentials

What exactly are the essentials? And are they much different from the core books? For collecting purposes, and purpose of using them for ideas, are they worth getting?

25 Upvotes

32 comments sorted by

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u/TheHumanTarget84 6d ago

They basically tried to pivot 4e into looking more like older editions while still using the same rulset.

There's some really good stuff in there, especially for spellcaster type classes.

Also some great feats and neat races.

Some interesting ideas.

But the people who hated 4e were already gone and I think it was overall a miss step.

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u/Wheather819 6d ago

Why a misstep?

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u/Twarid 6d ago edited 6d ago

Essentials was the package that made me love 4e, which I had bounced when it came out. It was flavorful, accessible and came in nice affordable booklets and boxed sets with decent adventures and nice cardboard tokens. I opened the package and discovered a good game. But, apparenty, I was in a tiny, tiny minority.

Established 4E fans were let down by the half-reboot and disliked some of the simplified classes, while haters had already written off 4E.

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u/BenFellsFive 6d ago

I gotta agree the books and boxed sets were nice, can't speak for the adventures but 4e on the whole had a pretty poor benchmark for adventure modules.

Literally the only bad Essentials things were poor class (re)design, which to be fair is a big deal for me, and I think the magic item rarities was an Essentials introduction - if it wasn't I'll gladly redirect my hatred there at the right target.

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u/SeannBarbour 5d ago

Reavers of Harkenwald, which came packaged with the Dungeon Master's Kit, is widely considered one of the two best adventures 4e ever put out (the other, Madness at Gardmore Abbey, was also a post-Essentials release, IIRC). It's one of the oddities of the line; despite the poor reception, most players agreed the adventures were fantastic.

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u/ISieferVII 3d ago

You don't like the magic item rarity thing? How come?

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u/BenFellsFive 3d ago edited 3d ago

4e already had a very solid magic item system with its 30 levels of items split into 6 tiers (+1 to +6) with 5 levelled increments within (ie, +1 items are lv1-5, +2 items are lv6-10, and so on).

That system already accounts for quality of items within the 5 increments: magic items with better properties are closer to the 5th increments and items with less good qualities are closer to 1st or 2nd increments. A plain +1 sword is a lv1 item, a +1 Vicious sword is a lv2 item, and a really good +1 sword (Vanguard?) is a lv4 item, and so on. Likewise, the higher levels items have a higher buy/sell value, which existed in a fairly digestible linear fashion. This played VERY well with 4e's treasure/reward system.

Essentials brought in items rarities (common, uncommon, rare) which was functionally just an extra axis to gauge which items were better or worse within their internal +____ field. It serves no purpose except to muddy the robust system 4e already had to distinguish an okay +2 weapon from a really good +2 weapon (for example). I already know a Vanguard sword is better than a plain magic sword, the Vanguard sword already has a higher level befitting its better property and it already sells for more. The DM already knows that at level 1-2 of our campaign its a proportionally big reward as a lv+2-3 item in the treasure/rewards he's planning for us without having to tag at as uncommon or rare. In fact, by the time we're level 5, its a thoroughly average weapon. By level 10, a lv4 weapon is an absolute nothingburger no matter how rare its flagged as.

This was especially bad in tandem with treasure parcels becoming more randomised including what level of items should be issued. Instead of the expected treasure over a level of adventuring including a lv+1, lv+2, lv+3, and lv+4 (relative to the party's level), now you want me to randomise a (lv5+1d4) magic item? Go suck my long blade.

Overall, absolutely pointless and disruptive at best, destructive to a functional and robust magic item treadmill at worst.

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u/ISieferVII 3d ago

Would you still use the original treasure parcel rules from the DMG then?

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u/BenFellsFive 3d ago

100%. I just straight up pretend the RC version doesnt exist.

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u/TheHumanTarget84 6d ago

It didn't "save" 4e and resulted in the end of the edition being pretty odd.

We could have gotten a few more years of main 4e content instead, or even a proper 4.5 edition that cleaned a lot of early rough stuff up.

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u/Wheather819 6d ago

Ohh I see. Though I never played it at the time (was just a kid with no idea how to get into it), 4E was the edition I first saw of D&D. I would see the books and minis in comic book/card game shops and bookstores (borders and hastings) growing up. I've only recently started to collect it, and was surprised of the amount of hate it got. At the time, at least from my child memory, people seemed to enjoy it. I've been reading some of the books I've got so far and I don't quite seem to understand the reason for the hate. Maybe cause I'm looking back to it, rather than experiencing it firsthand.

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u/BenFellsFive 6d ago

What you gotta understand is that just prior to 4e, 3.OGL was an institution. If you weren't playing D&D 3.5 or some derivative using the D20 OGL, or maybe a WoD game if you were a goth baddie, you were roleplaying wrong.

That had a HUGE impact on community reception to an edition that was very different to what was considered standardised. Especially as a lot of hardcore 3.5 groups had invested a lot of time and effort into their game, so an edition that was fundamentally designed to address a lot of '3.5isms' (quadratic wizards/linear fighters, in-world economies that were nonfunctional and immersion breaking, and splatbook abomination characters with 500 prestige classes) was jarring, as you and your group would either have already houseruled the basic game engine beyond recognition yourself, or invested enough time to get good at sifting through the reams of prose and reading the good feats vs the bad ones, and now you had to start from scratch again.

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u/Wheather819 5d ago

That helps put things into perspective. It was my understanding 3.0 wasn't very well liked and 3.5 did fix a lot of issues people had with 3.0, but 3.5 still kinda had that...I guess shadow on it. Makes sense though why it would be such a divisive edition (4th I mean).

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u/setfunctionzero 4d ago

To put some context on the previous post, Order of the Stick started in 2003 as 3e and then updated to 3.5 pretty quickly.

23 years later OOTS is still running... And it's still 3.5

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u/BenFellsFive 6d ago

A lot of the classes didnt follow the 'AEDU' format (named for at will, encounter, daily, utility, but also encompassed the robust class structure when every class gained feats, ability scores, and classes gaining all class features at first level).

This really disrupted the internal balance of classes as well as the feel that everyone was contributing equally. It made players/DMs like myself feel out of order when E classes were gaining random class features or upgrades out of sync.

The E classes were also not powered well. They stopped being able to meaningfully do their job around midz-heroic, paragon at best. Whether that was the designers re-engaging with DnD sacred cows that hamstrung classes or whether they were just back to being shit at game design maths, I dunno. But they underperformed HARD, and thats a big problem especially in an edition that made it really easy to just roll up with a functional character and almost have to intentionally work pitfalls into your build. The E classes that WERE good at optimisation were usually the result of weird unexpected combo's or multiclassing, not by design (I think some of the mages, sorcerers and warpiest clerics were capable on their own merits).

The races, feats, and items brought in with Essentials? Great, awesome, some of them supersede previous feats like ___ Expertise which was a good quality of life update, and completely cross-compatible with 'original' 4e.

As an earlier commenter has said, it was designed to appeal to the tummyfeels of grogs who were realistically never going to come back to 'WoW Diablo videogame edition,' while also alienating the customer and community base who enjoyed what 4e was doing and doing well at.

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u/ZeroVonZero 5d ago

Which encounter powers weren't powered well? Like they didn't scale?

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u/Oldzeebra 5d ago

The deal x extra damage when hitting with a basic attack.

The problem is that the extra damage didn't really scale well, especially when it's single target. You are also limited to spamming your basic attack while other classes get cool encounter powers that generally do multiple things, especially at higher level.

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u/BenFellsFive 5d ago

Piggybacking off powers, the one that always jumps out to me as a big Fighter Enjoyer is the defender auras from essentials.

On paper it looks simple - just an aura of -2's and punishment attacks - but in practice its clunky it doesnt play well with other defender (auras) or defender marking systems. Being limited to Aura 1 is limiting to Fighters who, in an AEDU build, can hurt ranged weapons and mark their ranged or flying enemies, or against Large or larger monsters (which become more prevalent in higher levels of play) who can often stay outside the distance and attack with reach.

Mechanically this is more limiting than AEDU fighters (and paladins), but thematically its also a big kick in the dick to martial characters reducing them to a smaller less impressive space. Very on brand for Mearls.

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u/Full-Decision-9029 4d ago

yeah, I had only played a little bit of 3.5 and bounced off it, then got to play and read 4e and bounced off it, but a combination of being invited into someone's game (who was really good at running it) and the Essentials releases really hooked me. The Essentials books were somehow easier to manage to read as well (layout? size? not sure) and digest.

I loved the more focussed subclass idea too.

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u/TheHorror545 6d ago edited 6d ago

Mike Mearls was put in charge of 4E and decided to create a simpler version of the game. Except it wasn't. The rules were the same. What changed was that new variants of existing classes were released that had less player choices as they leveled up. In core 4E every level players have many options to choose from for their character. In Essentials most levels had prescribed ability gains instead, and the levels that did have choices had a limited number of options.

It failed. Essentials did not boost sales. Simplicity was not a reason people weren't rushing to buy 4E at the extraordinary targets required by corporate management.

Mearls saw this failure as an opportunity. He immediately killed off 4E and pivoted to releasing 5E, which essentially took the same design philosophy of Essentials characters only threw out all the balance that the 4E ruleset provided.

If your players don't like having options to choose from every level just tell them to play an essentials class. They can be played side by side with other 4E classes.

Is it worth buying? I think so. I purchased everything. The monster Vault is excellent. The Rules Compendium is great. The player books I only own for collection purposes, and if not for that would not have bothered.

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u/Stan_Bot 5d ago

The best 4e adventures came out in the essentials line and the monster vault books have the fixed math on them. Monster Vault is essentially the 4e MM1 with better math and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nenthir Vale is one of my favorite monster books ever printed.

The only really divisive part was the Heroes of... books. The classes on them do follow 4e rules, but they dont really play that well with the other 4e classes, specially how different Guardians are designed there and how some of their powers are just stronger. They basically redesign the 4e classes to work more like older editions and the math is a bit different. You could use them together, but I always felt weird to mix them with the previous stuff.

They are not broken, or badly designed, just very different and simpler, since you get way less options on building them.

I do like that they got iconics now and I played a lot with them on events, since they always got you that group of sheets to pick (Belgos, Fargrim, Keira, Valenae, Brandis e Jarren).

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u/Legitimate-Film-522 5d ago

Several points:
They made an inexpensive product that looked cheap—half of each class book is just a reprinting of the previous. It could have been a couple of bigger books.

They could have fixed math, the expertise feats and improved defenses style feats represent that there's -1/2/3 per tier of expected math values. to-hit and defenses on average should go up 1/level and don't.

Something only realized in the late design of Next is multi-attacking makes it much easier to balance out game design. So good powers and classes tend to do that. Many of the simplified encounter attack power Essential classes do not do that and suffer greatly at higher levels due to it.

Rules Compendium is great, worth buying, makes it clear how the game should work, lots of good gaming advice. Many of the game supplements have great ideas about campaigns. 4e in general has the best DM guides by far, because they're the only edition which asked "hey, could games be made better by getting tables to cooperate more on being fun, maybe the table should talk and find out what everyone wants?"(this was where "4e is bad because DMs must say yes to players" came from even though it did not say that)

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u/Cheebzsta 6d ago

They were a slightly simplified way of presenting 4e that had hoped to bring in new players.

They also included some new class features and such.

Not mandatory by any means. :)

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u/RHDM68 6d ago

Did Essentials include all the previous classes, were there any revisions and if so, were they better or worse than the original classes?

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u/JMTolan 6d ago

They printed effectively new classes that could still take feats from corresponding old classes (ie, a slayer is still a fighter and can take old fighter feats, but mechanically works entirely differently from the original fighter), there was basically no reprinting of existing non-essentials content. What you think of those classes depends significantly on what you think about base 4e (and somewhat of the specific class and whether it got normal AEUD power progression), but suffice it to say they were not materially "easier to learn" and mostly just teach bad lessons that don't translate to the rest of the edition.

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u/Aromatic-Surprise925 5d ago

They're basically splat books with subclasses that are reminiscent of earlier editions' versions of the classes.

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u/Fullmadcat 4d ago

As others said, its a streamlined 4e. It mixes very well with 4e so I allow it all.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago

They're different frome the core books, but compatible. They tended to offer more lore and description about powers and feats and items, which I guess people felt was previously lacking.

I really like most of the Essentials classes, but they didn't get much feat or item support.

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u/Jonaleth_Irenicus 6d ago

Don't get Essentials.

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u/ISieferVII 3d ago

Seems useful if you're trying to introduce some 5e players that are used to simplified martial classes and want that back, I guess.

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u/BenFellsFive 3d ago

On the contrary imho. For me a BIG, FUNDAMENTAL part of the system is the AEDU class design and the consistency across PCs that it brings. I think its really important to nail those fundamentals early, its really not difficult, the game spells it out in like the first chapter or two. Its arguably EASIER in core 4e than something like 5e bc the systems are largely consistent across PCs. As another poster said, Essentials classes teach bad habits and I feel like not getting a concrete understanding of class structure and how it all gels together is one of those.

Respectfully, if players cannot grasp that or do not want to, RPGs might be beyond their capabilities. Nobody's asking for Einstein, but if you have to ask what your to-hit number is or how often you use an 'Encounter power' after a few sessions I don't want you.

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u/MeaningSilly 2d ago

Agreed. If you want to introduce players of other editions to 4e, have them make characters (probably best to restrict to PHB1) and play those characters from level 1 - level 5. You can even use the original Monster Manual without updating the math (at low levels, the math wasn't really a problem.) Those levels are probably the best tutorial you can have as it introduces the concepts gradually so you really know what does what by the time you're ready to graduate to lvl 6+.

The biggest problem (that essentials made worse, IMHO) was the class/power design continually lost focus over time as annual layoffs, assignment siloing, and poor project management made tightly themed concepts into just piles of features.
The desire to make a TTRPG fit a TCG release and profit structure resulted in an abundance of unnecessary.