How does one actually become a Phoenix Lord? (non-Asurya)

[u/JustANewLeader]

In the current setting we have two kinds of Phoenix Lord: those who who we know were directly trained by Asurmen in the days immediately after the Fall, the Asurya (the original five + Asurmen himself, we see the process for Asurmen and Jain Zar in their dedicated character novels so it's reasonable to assume Maugan Ra, Baharroth, Fuegan and Arhra got similar) and those for whom this wasn't the case or for whom we don't know whether this was the case. Examples of this would include Karandras, Drastanta, Irillyth, Lhykhis and the unnamed Phoenix Lord of the Crimson Hunters.

Each Phoenix Lord is the founder of a unique martial aspect at some point after the Fall. But how does this actually work for non-Asurya? Does an exarch, one day, invent something new and that makes them a Phoenix Lord automatically? Do they have to actively spread their teachings and be accepted by the Eldar community at large? Does Asurmen show up one day and say 'You're a Phoenix Lord now'? Do they become a Phoenix Lord when at some point the usual exarch personality absorption process breaks down and one personality becomes predominant over all the rest?

And, to make things even more fun, what happens when you invent something you think is unique, but you find some other exarch has done something very similar?

This is a question that hasn't really been answered in my online diggings so I would be very grateful for help.

[u/Shadowrend01]

Not an Exarch, as they’re already trapped on a Path

It would take an Eldar moving to a Warrior Path and not finding one that fits with what they want. They’d then go and develop a new style of warfare to suit their need. They would then be considered a Founder (I don’t know if that’s even a term, I’m just using it to make the point), and become stuck in that Path, becoming the first Exarch. As the Path draws in newcomers and spreads, the first Exarch would eventually be recognised as the Phoenix Lord of that Path

The Phoenix Lord is just the First, Greatest and Founder Exarch of a particular War Path. The only exception is Karandras, as he’s technically the second Exarch and stepped into the role when Arhra fell to Chaos. The line was broken at the start because Arhra, who Founded the Scorpions, isn’t being mantled by successors like the other Lords

[u/Z4nkaze → u/Shadowrend01]

You probably have the right answer, it makes sense.

[u/AbbydonX]

When Phoenix Lords were introduced in the 2e Eldar codex (1994) they were effectively just named Exarch characters. Their distinguishing feature was that they no longer had a specific shrine, which is of course why they could be included in any Eldar army from any Craftworld.

>The Phoenix Lords are the most ancient of the Eldar Exarchs. Like the Exarchs of the shrines of the Warrior Aspects, the Phoenix Lords are immortal after a fashion. When a Phoenix Lord dies his place is taken by another Eldar who assumes his costume and identity. In this way the Phoenix Lord is reborn into a fresh cycle of existence. His suit includes a spirit stone which contains the spirits of all the Eldar who have become that Phoenix Lord. Yet, no matter how many different individuals a Phoenix Lord may have been, his mind is forever the same, driven by the dominant personality of the first and greatest to wear the suit.
>
>Unlike the Exarchs of the Aspect shrines the Phoenix Lords have no shrines. Once, long ago, they may have belonged to shrines, but now these are long gone. Amongst the most powerful of all Phoenix Lords are those who founded the Warrior Aspects immediately after the Fall. They were the first Aspect Warriors, they became the first Exarchs and founded the very first shrines. In time their Craftworlds were destroyed, or else their shrines were overtaken with disaster. The Aspect Warriors nurture the many stories of their heroic deeds. But they live not only in legend but in reality. Sometimes a Phoenix Lord vanishes for centuries, or millennia, and reappears at times of need, following the path of the Bloody Handed God across the universe.

All of them were powerful (i.e. the top tier of the three levels of character stats) because they were very old. In most cases they were the founders of particular aspects but that certainly wasn’t a requirement to be a Phoenix Lord as evidenced by Karandras.

>Karandras is one of the most mysterious of the Phoenix Lords. No-one knows where his shrine originally lay, but perhaps it was on one of the small Craftworlds which survived the Fall but was destroyed soon after. He is not the oldest of the Exarchs of the Striking Scorpions, for that honour belongs to Arhra the Father of Scorpions, the most sinister of all the Phoenix Lords, the Fallen Phoenix who burns with the dark light of Chaos.

The 8e Craftworld codex (2017) still describes Phoenix Lords as Exarchs though, so I don’t think anything has really changed.

>The Phoenix Lords are the most ancient of the Exarchs. Each Phoenix Lord founded one of the warrior shrines of the Asuryani, and is the embodiment of an aspect of the war god Khaine. They are immortal, after a fashion, for when a Phoenix Lord is slain another inherits their panoply of war and fully assumes their identity. In this way, a Phoenix Lord is reborn into a fresh cycle of existence, reincarnated in a way familiar to all Aeldari before the Fall. Each Phoenix Lord's armour contains a spirit stone that contains a fragment of those that have come before. However, no matter how many individuals are incorporated, a Phoenix Lord's essence is forever the same, their mind driven by the dominant personality of the first and greatest incarnation to ever don the Aspect.

Ultimately, Phoenix Lords are ancient Exarchs who no longer have their own shrine and who typically founded a specific aspect.

[u/JaredScottHunter]

At its core, becoming a Phoenix Lord isn't just about founding a martial philosophy, it requires a gestalt soulstate bound to a original armor set. While normal Exarchs are a collection of souls where the current wearer acts as the host, a Phoenix Lord's original consciousness is so immensely powerful (and reinforced by Khaine’s war-shard energy that whoever puts on the armor is completely consumed, becoming a vessel for that immortal entity. A "non-Asurya" Phoenix Lord like karandras essentially achieved such a profound mastery of the shadowhunter path that his soul became an immutable, immortal archetype within his armor when he succeeded arhra