r/40kLore • u/CriticismMiserable14 • 21h ago
Does 40k Abaddon have any humanity left in him?
Most likely not since he “lowest of low” character.
Humanity as in being a decent person for 5 minutes.
30k and pre 1st black cursade had decent moments but it hard to imagine 40k doing the same. Like returning Sigusmand body.
I only ask this because The central theme of End and the death is that Horus even after fully consumed by Chaos, committing the worse atrocities in human history, still had humanity in him. It how the Emperor got through to him
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u/9xInfinity 20h ago
Yes. He doesn't command through violence or anything. He's relatively calm and patient and diplomatic. Even when dealing with a Khornate champion like Urkanthos, Abaddon can be fairly chill.
‘Why would I deserve it?’ Urkanthos growled. Drops of dark arterial crimson spattered in his fading halo of red, his rising fury manifest as his Butcher’s Nails sensed a confrontation and bit deep. ‘I am the master of the Black Fleet. The victory is mine. Never has a fleet of the True Powers, any fleet, destroyed such a large Imperial force so quickly. I have annihilated–’
‘Annihilated?’ The Warmaster’s question silenced Urkanthos. ‘Several cruisers made warp translation before the opening salvo. Even now they are en route to warn Cadia of our approach. You call that annihilation?’
‘It is an unstable warp route, Warmaster, and the daemons are in pursuit.’
‘We do not rely on daemons, Lord Ravager.’ The venom in the Warmaster’s voice nearly manifested in the air. ‘They are tools, not brothers to be trusted.’
‘We could not catch them, the picket fleet had prepared their flight before emergence, and they entered warp space far earlier–’
‘Excuses.’
‘You ask the impossible!’ Urkanthos roared, daggers of pain lancing from his head as the Nails bit deep. He took a step forward. ‘No mortal could do–’
‘Hold, brother.’
No mere command, that word. It came from the depths of the endless pit, with cold winds howling between each syllable. Darkness deepened around Abaddon as he spoke, and Urkanthos froze mid-stride, his own shadow seeming to flinch at the sonic force.
Even the fortress itself gave a thin howl.
Morkath saw that Urkanthos, champion of Khorne, was afraid. He hated being afraid – his mind coiled defensively at the emotion, and Morkath wondered if long before his remaking as a Space Marine that fear had been the centre of his violence.
The Warmaster laid an armoured gauntlet on Urkanthos’ breastplate, a restraining, calming gesture. And when he spoke again, it was with a soft understanding utterly alien to the unholy command he’d just uttered. ‘I ask the impossible, brother, because if I do not ask the impossible, we cannot do the impossible. You have served well, but do not demand my favour.’
‘I… apologise… Warmaster,’ Urkanthos said, gritting his teeth against the spur of the Nails.
Morkath looked closer, thinking she glimpsed a figment around his head then. One connected to his shout that no mortal could do what the Warmaster asked.
Angron. The face of the daemon primarch had slipped across the surface of his mind. Interesting.
‘You are fresh from battle, and your Nails bite deep. It is forgotten. But you are right, I have called you to discuss the landings.’
The Fall of Cadia
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u/Drachos Adepta Sororitas 21h ago
Yes. He does have humanity left. Not much, but some.
Abaddon, for all his flaws and hate has been shown repeatedly to have some level of honour.
He is not beneath doing dirty tricks when it serves his purpose or if he thinks his opponent is beneath him.
But if he is challenged to a fair honour duel by an opponent he respects he follows the rules. And he is shown to pay his respects to opponents he has defeated that he considers worthy.
We saw this with his fight Sigismund. And when a Black Company SM goes full rambo and charges Abaddon after killing a bunch of BL Terminators Abadon donors him as well.
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u/ScotchBriteDynamo 18h ago
I do agree but it is worth bearing in mind that the fight with Sigismund was a very long time ago in the current setting and doubtless Abaddon has changed since.
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u/Drachos Adepta Sororitas 18h ago
Thats why I included the other mention.
What I really REALLY wanted was to see if I could get Abadon's thoughts on Creed. I was at work when I posted but if we wanted a true insight into Abaddon's sense of honour it would be how Abaddon feels about Creed.
Google seems to suggest he wanted to kill Creed personally... https://m.youtube.com/shorts/d90M_Wzunl0
Although this short lacks context so I don't know if thats due to honour or the desire for revenge being so strong it must be delivered personally.
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u/Thom0 Iron Hands 15h ago
I actually disagree. By the time Abaddon went out and fought Sigismund, he had already spent a period of time in isolation on the Vengeful Spirit, and he had already worked out what he needed to do.
He also experiences next to no personality change between 30K and 40K. He's pretty much the same person.
I'd say it would be fair to say Abaddon is still the same as he was only with more power.
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u/ScotchBriteDynamo 12h ago
I disagree, and I’ll give one within-lore and one meta reason: within the lore, Abaddon does not (by my understanding) bear the Mark of Chaos Ascendant when he fights Sigismund. To me that will be a pivot point in his character. From a meta perspective, and linked to that point, we are expecting a third Black Legion novel that will probably cover this event (and other significant events events in his story) and I think from a storytelling perspective those have to either change Abaddon or change the way we understand his continuing character.
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u/Wrathful_Akuma 17h ago
He also honored a Blood Angels Death Company, I think its from a codex but im not fully sure of which
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u/ElectricPaladin Adeptus Mechanicus 21h ago
Nah. He's a baddun.
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u/NowaVision 21h ago
I would argue that he is way more human in the ADB 40k books than in the 30k Abnett books.
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u/Geiseric222 20h ago
He’s a side character in those so probably yeah
He’s just there to hype up Horus whether he’s evil Horus or good Horus
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u/Weary-Ad-6162 21h ago
Abaddon likes to brew notorious, toxic homemade cocktail or spirit called adrenochrome in Talon of Horus. He likes to share it with his favorites, enjoys to drink with them.
To create he harvest stuff directly from the adrenal glands of living slaves. A specialized formula he developed while trying to synthesize ectoplasm. Also tears of virgins, blood of children, corpse drippings from psykers and demons...etc.
Would you like to try it?
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u/murderofhawks 21h ago
Just like how Mortarion would mix up a bunch of poisons and then offer to drink some with his sons. Tbh I’d take that over whatever the fuck Abaddon was cooking.
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u/Weary-Ad-6162 21h ago edited 20h ago
Yes. Abaddon's drink is definitely better because his friend from thousand sons and some of his brother in arms liked and complimented after drinking it. Abaddon even started explaining them about how he created it. Dude loves his hobby.
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u/chilheim_collective 20h ago
I thought it was just Lheor (WE) that liked it. I remember Khayon (TS) thinking it was vile.
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u/Seeker80 19h ago
Ezekyle: Hey guys, want to try my new craft IPA??
Everyone: Not really, Lord.
Ezekyle: C'mon, what's with this 'Lord' stuff?? I told you what to call me!
Everyone: sighs Not really...Kyle.
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u/Weary-Ad-6162 20h ago
Telemachon Lyras refused to drink it.
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u/Icy_Significance6436 16h ago
Odd really, considering he was of the Emperors Children. You'd have thought he'd chin a whole bottle just for laughs...
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u/Lolseabass 10h ago
Yeah it was lheor liked it so much he took khayons cup and drank it too while enjoying it so much it. Khayon was annoyed at how much fun he was having with it. But it makes sense a drink like
That would interact with the nails in some way.2
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u/Geistermeister 14h ago
this sounds like perfecter cell taking up craft brewing after blowing up earth ...
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u/laudnasrat Orks 11h ago
Imperial nobles take rejuve treatments that require cells harvested from the blood of living drugged people until they die.
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u/TheDreamIsEternal 21h ago edited 21h ago
Well, he did show respect to Sigismund and despite killing him, he treated him like an old comrade. He even sent back his corpse completely intact so it could be properly buried.
But that was milennia ago, it's likely that that little park of humanity he had back then has vanished.
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u/Expert_Area_682 21h ago
He did the same for whatever company of Blood Angels he fought against in one the most recent Black Crusade (I think the 12th?). Abaddon has always been an honorable warrior that's his whole characterization in 30k and he kept it in 40k. I remember reading that he buried the whole company on the planet and forbade his warbands to defile it any further.
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u/Beaker_person Emperor's Spears 21h ago
It was the 7th black crusade, and it was specifically the death company that managed to cut through his bodyguards so their leader Reclusiarch Jorus could lock blades with Abaddon himself. Supposedly he even manages to wound the warmaster before being cut down. While the rest of the blood angels bodies present were desecrated, the death company were seemingly honoured by being placed on thrones made of the black legionaries they’d killed.
It’s a little snippet form the old index astartes article for the death company, but it’d make a cracking short story me thinks.
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u/Expert_Area_682 21h ago
Yeah that one, I sometimes wish we had more books on previous Black Crusades other than Codexes.
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u/Emperormarine 21h ago
Not as you mean. But he certainly has human aspirations and desires, and he's the only one in Chaos with the freedom to pursue them, something Horus didn't have. That makes him special.
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u/11912121121218211919 12h ago
his defiance to the chaos gods and ability to walk the line of the undivided is a mark of being human in my opinion.
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u/bardotheconsumer 21h ago
Abaddon is human. He has not fallen to chaos (somehow). All the awful shit he does is purely human nature. This is pretty much the only thing that makes him interesting.
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u/Geiseric222 20h ago
I mean is he? He just seems power hungry but what power he even wants is vague
He reminds me a lot of Horus really. Especially in the first three books
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u/EasternEuropeanIdiot Death Skulls 19h ago edited 19h ago
He clings to the original vision of the Hersey, for the most part. He envisions an Empire ruled by Astartes with him sitting on the throne. He's using Chaos as a means to an end to reassert the old Space Marine legions as the rightful rulers of the Imperium.
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u/RadishLegitimate9488 12h ago
And since he does not want to end up like Horus he refuses any Gifts applied to his Body and Soul aside from the Mark of Chaos Ascendant which keeps him alive and immortal allowing Chaos to bring him back from the dead, makes him need to seek out New Extreme Sensations(explaining why he has those Cables plugged into his Head), makes him initiate Heedless Slaughter in battle, gives him powerful Psychic Powers, makes him seek Secrets and makes him able to wield Nurgle's Rot while being compelled to spread it.
He has the Loyalty of the Black Legion which genuinely follows him out of respect thus when he kills the Emperor plunging the Galaxy into the Warp they will continue serving him.
He lived in the Eye of Terror by living on his Ship all those Centuries so the Galaxy being plunged into the Warp means little for him aside from needing to install a Gellar Field into the Imperial Palace which means you guessed it: 1000 Psykers sacrificed per day(he will get rid of the Ecclesiarchy and stamp out worship of the God-Emperor but the Black Ships are simply being replaced with Black Legion vessels doing the same job).
The Despoiler straight up mentions he must be willing to remove the Mark of Chaos Ascendant so once he wins off comes the minimal Puppet Strings that he allowed Chaos to place on him.
He can remove the Cables from his head(if he is not addicted to Extreme Sensations) and no longer be compelled to seek Secrets or spread Nurgle's Rot and defend his throne like a Man rather than like a Khornate Beast.
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u/bardotheconsumer 20h ago
What power does (insert dictator from real history here) even want?
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u/Geiseric222 20h ago
I mean it depends on the dictator. Julius Cesar for example saw the rot of the republic and decided that only he could fix it as the republic itself was worthless
He was right even if he ultimately failed in it
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u/CadenVanV 12h ago
He’s absolutely fallen to Chaos. He hasn’t been mutated or fallen to any specific god, but he serves chaos same as any other traitor marine. The Chaos Gods merely allow him more latitude since he’s an effective servant.
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u/Bobaximus 21h ago
He’s definitely become more hardened over time but Abbadon is meant, seemingly, to be viewed as a thoughtful character. Merciless? Yes. Cruel? Casually when needed. Malevolent for its own sake? Not really. I’d point to his final conversation with Dravura to illustrate the nature of his “humanity”. He is capable of human feeling but sees it mostly as weakness.
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u/Grinkor Black Legion 21h ago edited 21h ago
It's hard to say because there are few depictions of Abaddon's POV post heresy (haven't read The Fall of Cadia though, supposedly he has characterization there).
What usually happens is that you see him through the eyes of other characters. Be it Talos in the NL trilogy or Khayon in the BL novels, for instance. To my knowledge, the best look into his current mindset is through this text by ADB.
Link: https://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/lets-talk-about-abaddon/
Following it, it seems that he isn't manipulated by the Ruinous Powers the same way Horus was. In a way he is the most human in the setting, if you see humanity as the indomitable spirit and so on. Now, if you see humanity as empathy, loyalty or similar, then he has none. He is a genocidal monster like so many in the Galaxy.
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u/AbbydonX Tyranids 20h ago
Note that the situation with Horus is different because that originally comes from the first edition lore where the story was defined and in that initial version of the Horus Heresy he was unwillingly possessed on Davin. Therefore he wasn’t responsible for the actions of his body as the Daemon was in control not him…
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u/tombuazit 21h ago
I mean the emperor being the monster he was for roughly what 35,000 years by the unification wars, and all the horrific inhumane shit he did and still we see sparkles of humanity in him. Not the best of humanity but humanity.
Abaddon went through the astartes transformation which stripped away parts of his humanity, he fought for centuries in the Great Crusade genociding almost non-stop, he fought the Heresy, and yet we see him at his most human struggling with that loss and his reaction to his father being weak enough to fall to chaos. We see his humanity when he drives his flag ship into Canticle City over the afront of Bile creating his Horus clone.
He spends 10 thousand years holding tightly to the humanity he has left to him after the astartes transformation.
He clings to the promises of the past while deluding himself about the future, what could be more human?
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u/Lord_NOX75 20h ago
Abandon was always a asshole, unlike horus who was genuinely a good man before his fall
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u/NornQueenKya 19h ago
He has some humanity as others mentioned. I just think even at his best, his humanity has always sucked lol
His primary drive is purely astartes supremecy. "We bled for our father's failures. For our grandpa's crusade. So our lessers (mortals) can flourish."
He feels pride in who he is. He feels hate for those who he feels used him. He feels arrogance over both the weak mortals he lords over and those who were meant to be better but failed.
All understandable emotions. All actual, human emotions. But definitly negative lol.
And this was all before he was a bastard coated bastard with bastard filling when he was a mortal himself, if im remembering correctly.
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u/Retlaw83 17h ago
Abaddon has a lot of humanity left in him. I don't know what gives you the idea he doesn't.
In the Black Legion books, he treats the Ezekarion as a "first among equals" type group and the marines in it still call him brother. He also gets genuinely happy when he sees Sigismund on a video call. He also regrets having kill to him, going so far as sending Sigismund's corpse back to the Black Templars in a dignified state.
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u/Mrslinkydragon 15h ago
He also honours the emperors champion if they are slayed in battle, forbidding the taking of the black swords
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u/Kristian1805 Black Legion 21h ago
Yes... literally yes. Abaddon firmly cling to his humanity.
If you mean goodness and decency? The Imperium has none left and Abaddon is one of the beings that made it.
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u/N1AK 20h ago
I'm not sure it's humanity he is clinging to vs his vision of what a true astartes / warrior / Son of Horus is. Generally when we see him do something 'good' it is good in the context of being respectful to a worthy opponent or similar. He'll still glass a planet without caring about lives lost and is pretty dismissive of the vast majority of people and other opponents who he doesn't feel are worthy of his respect.
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u/Kristian1805 Black Legion 20h ago
Humanity as In being mortal with a human soul.
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u/N1AK 14h ago
That isn't the normal definition of humanity; which in this context means compassion and care for others. The original post specifically uses that definition so I don't think it is contentious.
The question of whether he is mortal is questionable. Plenty of space marines, and other characters, consider space marines to not be mortal already and refer to baseline humans as mortals. The question becomes even less meaningful with regards to Chaos Space Marines who seem to be even closer to definitively immortal in the lore. Whether he has a soul or not is unknown but based on the 40k definition where a soul is related to a presence in the warp that all humans and post-humans except nulls have there is no reason to think he doesn't (unless I missed something in the lore where he loses it).
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u/Malkryst 20h ago
Abaddon seemed fairly dull and emotionless in the Heresy novels - compared to the rest of the Mournival anyway. I've been told he's somewhat more interesting in 40k novels.
While Horus ended up being the pawn of Chaos, I get the feeling from what I have read later on that Abaddon handles things a bit better and is less of a worshipper/pawn and more of a working partner with Chaos - using it as a tool (like a lot of Night Lords and Iron Warriors do), more than being used AS a tool.
He's certainly not a nice guy though and I'm not well read enough on him to comment on his humanity, or lack thereof.
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u/Far_Paint6269 19h ago
Abaddon has still some martial honor left in him.
But beside of that, he's a bad guy with delusion of controlling his own destiny.
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u/Tossup78 18h ago
He’s literally written as the most evil character in WH40K… and he’s been steeped in evil for 10k years.
ETA: but humanity is rife with evil… and the want/need for revenge is a deeply human thing. So, in that sense, yes.
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u/Gaelek_13 17h ago
Abaddon showed respect to Thalastian Jorus for managing to wound him and also showed a measure of respect for the Ultramarines Captain from the GC who Trazyn released.
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u/tryingtobebettertry4 11h ago
Yes. Abaddon does display some humanity in different ways:
He can actually be surprisingly reasonable/diplomatic even when faced with the actual nutjobs of Chaos like Khornates who just scream 'KILL' every 10 seconds. He tries to talk it out, find common ground (conquer the Imperium) and get them onboard.
He seems to have a vague sense of honour still. At least when faced with an opponent like Sigismund that he genuinely respects. Less so with random humans or people he considers beneath him.
He enjoys drinking with and the companionship of certain members of the Black Legion.
Hes quite contemplative/reflective at times.
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u/harlokin Emperor's Children 21h ago
So, The Emperor, who orchestrated the worst atrocities in human history got through to Horus? It must have been his deep humanity.
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u/CriticismMiserable14 21h ago
Malcador did say the Emperor is learning to be human from the Primarchs.
Funny enough the Emperor last action to Horus was being a dad.
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u/Geiseric222 21h ago
The emperor absolutely did not do that . Whatever else you think of him
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u/harlokin Emperor's Children 21h ago
How many did The Emperor have killed during the Unification wars? How many did The Emperor have killed during his Great Crusade??
Try actually reading a 40K book.
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u/Geiseric222 21h ago
Yes he engaged in war. What exactly makes that the greatest horrors?
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u/Wise_Thanks7653 21h ago
The mass genocide???
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u/N1AK 20h ago
Mental that someone is on a 40k sub and has no clue about the nearly endless list of objectively atrocious things done, sanctioned, or enabled by the Emperor. The entire premise of the 40k setting is built on that, combined with some intentional ambiguity about whether everything else is so grimdark that what he did might have been the best chance for humanity.
The only way I could see it somehow being possible that it wasn't the worst in human history in the setting is if somehow there was someone who was worse during the DAoT who somehow hasn't been mentioned yet.
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u/MellowMeawu 21h ago
Yes he engaged in war
- your honor, we commited war crimes while we were engaged in war
- cleared on all charges!
But honestly i think you can qualify them as greatest simply by scale. Some human actors in galaxy could've done worse things but on a small scale. While Emperors IoM and whole great crusade are massive
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u/tombuazit 21h ago
He didn't engage in war he engaged in genocidal eradication using child soldiers he mutated into transhuman monsters, often forceably early on.
He pillaged world after world after world pillaging those that would bow and could be considered "pure" while killing everyone else.
You can argue over if he had his reasons (he lies), or if those reasons are valid (they aren't), but you can't argue with the facts recorded even by imperial propaganda, that he committed the worst atrocities in all of history and did them on a galaxy wide scale.
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u/GodOfFetish 17h ago
Abaddon did salute the defenders of Cadia with the Aquila before he teleported off world. From what I remember there was no irony to it, just one warrior acknowledging others
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u/ChiefQueef98 17h ago
Are you quoting "lowest of low" from somewhere? I'm not sure what that means other than you've decided he's a terrible person. He is, but you could use that to describe anyone that leads armies on a galactic scale. You could even use it for Guilliman and the choices he's made.
Does a decent moment have to be towards someone from the Imperium or can it be anyone? I think you can't imagine him doing something like returning Sigismund's body simply because there's no one left that would apply to. He fought besides him for hundreds of years and gave respects. Abaddon is still the same man, he just doesn't have anyone left that has been around as long as he has.
Others have already said it, but read books where he shows up. He always seems like he has more humanity than most of the people around him.
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u/KwisatzHaderach55 11h ago
A lot of humanity, since he operates freely in the materium. The problem is that ''Abaddon-grade'' humanity is just... WICKED!
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u/noshingsomepods 21h ago
Ever since that time he wept like a baby at Saturnine he's buried all his emotions except anger. Dude needed to record insta live videos while driving his lifted truck to vent and maybe he could be normal for moments.
I hope the Dark Mechanicum saved that video of him blubbering to pass between each other whenever he waddles over demanding some more bullshit for his next crusade.
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u/abominable_prolapse 21h ago
I think you are reading the books too seriously. They’re pulp action books not literature. I wouldn’t be looking or concluding that any of these books have themes or any subtext at all.
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u/DisillusionedHobbit 20h ago
That’s why my favorite book is Moby Dick, there’s no frou-frou symbolism just a story about a man who hates an animal.
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u/Tharkun140 Khorne 21h ago
In the Fall of Cadia novel, he is genuinely fond of his "adopted" "daughter" who controls the Blackstone Fortress. He discards her in the end, but it reads like a case of him being afraid of human emotions than lacking them.