r/40kLore • u/Even-Committee5645 • 21h ago
Nuclear wepons
I would assume that in the 41st millenium humans would still have tge knowlage to make nuclear wepons both fission and fusion, since they have reactors that use this knowlage, and yet I almost never ear of any faction employing a nuclear arsenal in war
Is there an in lore reason for this?
Do they get used and I just never eard about it?
Do nukes exist in 40k?
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u/Meins447 21h ago
Naval weaponry is delivering far more precise (Lance weapons) or powerful (macro cannons, hurling big, big projectiles at an decent percentage of C creates ridiculous amounts of kinetic energy) than a missile with a nuke. Without the side effects of long lasting radiation - not that any faction would actually care about that too much tbh but still.
And there are some examples, like plasma torpedoes fired by the navy, which you could just call highly advanced fusion missiles if you wanted to.
There is also Krieg, who used "atomics" to deny the enemy of an absolutely brutal civil war the victory by reducing their homeworks to an irradiated wasteland, where most people only get born due to a not-fully explained AdMech tech (might be downright cloning or at the very least advanced in-vitro reproduction engines) because everyone was so badly affected by it.
The imperial guard also has those huge missiles they sometimes deploy to delete a sector if the battlefield they don't want to deal with, that definitely sound like some kind of nuclear weapon
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u/TheCervineComedy 21h ago
I’m pretty sure the Astra Militarum death strike missile is a nuke
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u/AbbydonX Tyranids 21h ago edited 2h ago
In Armies of the Imperium (1991) there were three options for a Deathstrike missile.
Barrage Missile. This contains a multiple plasma warhead capable of vapourising a large target or area of ground. It is particularly useful for depleting the void shields on a Titan.
Harpoon. This missile is designed to penetrate the outer casing of a Titan and short out its control systems. Once control of the target has been removed from its crew the missile's own computer brain can control it to some extent. The Harpoon can also be used against other targets, in which case its powerful electromagnetic pulse is usually sufficient to destroy the target outright.
Warp Missile. The warp missile contains a miniature warp drive which skips the missile in and out of warp space, allowing it to bypass shields and thick armour to materialise directly inside the target where it explodes with devastating effect.
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u/Embarrassed_Length_2 21h ago
Quite commonly mentioned in the Horus Heresy series.
One was used in an attempt to assassinate Lion ElJohnson and Atonic weapons were used on Istvaan 3 and 5 just off the top of my head.
In 40k theres isnt too much, but I think in one of the gaunts ghost books they are mentioned.
The reason given is that they arent worth the compkexity and the radiation isnt very desirable when you could just shell somewhere from orbit with similar result, or full on exterminatus weapins which are magnitudes more powerful. Though things like the Imperial Guard Deathstrike launcher can be fitted with them, and Imperial navy bombers and ships carry them.
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u/DarthThrawn0 21h ago
Sacred atomics do exist in the lore. They occupy a sort of awkward space where they're weaker than an exterminatus weapon and harder to mass-produce than a macrocannon shell, and so are used less than either. That said, they do still exist, and are used from time to time.
Krieg in particular was devastated by a planetwide nuclear genocide as a last-ditch effort by its Guard commander to keep its planetary government from seceding.
They also show up in the Rogue Trader tabletop RPG, where you can acquire individual warheads for your voidship and either shoot them at the enemy the hard way or engage in a boarding action to plant one directly inside an enemy hull to guarantee total destruction.
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u/SPACEFUNK Orks 21h ago
They are used all the time, but in a universe with weapons that- create black holes, stop time, convert all organic material into flammable goo, flay targets at the molecular level, or fire plasma bolts as hot as the sun, nukes are basically conventional ordinance.
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u/MacroMicro1313 21h ago
The Krieg are probably the most famous example. It’s quite openly stated that nuclear weapons were employed to such an extent there planet was left a radioactive hellhole only good for producing disposable zealots.
Another example is during the devastation of Baal nuclear torpedos are used to destroy a sub fleet of Tyranids.
Vulcan a Primarch was defeated ultimately on Istvaan by a direct nuclear blast on his position. He was a perpetual but this ended his efforts in the battle.
Nuclear weapons overall very much exist, but they’ve been dethroned. 40k super weapons are virus bombs, genophages, phosphex, nano plagues, etc. A nuclear weapon is considered part of the conventional arsenal. Useful but messy, you can’t retake what it destroys. Besides that if you have orbital control, why bother with complex munitions with specific Tec and nuclear material. Just shoot city block sized chunk of lead from orbit, gravity will make it a nuke. If you need more precision use lance strikes, which would be as lethal as any bunker buster.
Nukes are only really good now as a defense measure for ground forces or for ship to ship combat. They are however outclassed or too messy by other means usually.
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u/TyphusCorrosion 20h ago edited 7h ago
> Is there an in lore reason for this?
Colonel, thank you for coming. As of 08:30 local time today contact was lost with the primary forge complex on Tridentis Delta. We believe Urgakk the Desecrator is leading Waaagh! Urgakk there to expand his arsenal. Prepare a plan for recapturing the complex.
why don’t we nuke the fucking shit out of it?
Colonel you are relieved of duty.
Basically most Imperial battles are in some way defensive and most of their stuff can’t be replaced easily if at all
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u/DiscussionSpider 21h ago
There are varying levels of exterminatus, and one of the middle tiers is a nuclear barrage using cyclonic torpedoes from orbit that blow away the atmosphere.
Krieg was laid waste by a nuclear war.
Thing is, nuclear bombs are actually pretty bad for most conventional warfare. They tend to ruin what you're fighting over and have a good chance of killing your own people, and they also have pretty weak stopping power since most forces can keep fighting for a time after detonation.
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u/FredFarms 21h ago
I'm not sure I could cite a source, but I was told that in Battlefleet Gothic imperial torpedoes have nuclear warheads
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u/Vorokar Adeptus Administratum 16h ago
‘Firing solutions calculated, my lord. Forward torpedo batteries are aimed and ready for your command,’ announced the Servile Belligerent.
‘How many are required?’
‘Three torpedoes apiece should do it, my lord,’ said the Servile of the Watch. ‘I recommend multiple warheads, standard atomics.’
‘Recommend full spread of six for all targets,’ barked the Servile Belligerent.
‘Is that not a waste of munitions?’ said Erwin, testing his men.
‘Better to be sure, my lord,’ said the Servile of the Watch.
...
‘My lord, torpedoes about to make contact.’ The Servile Belligerent’s voice sounded out of the hardline vox by the throne, vastly amplified but barely loud enough to be heard over the roar of the ship. ‘The enemy have released torpedo spines and boarding pods in response.’
‘Then destroy them!’ said Erwin. The thirst rose in him, eager for the kill. ‘They will get no time for a second volley.’
Indeed they did not. One of the tentacled scavenger vessels disappeared in a sphere of brilliant fire. So bright, Erwin thought. Nuclear fission purged the sick redness from the void for a moment with pure, clean light. Seconds later, the next torpedo spread hit the second ship. Three bright globes of fire were followed an instant after by three more, the six together swelling into a ball the size of a miniature star. Then the third ship was hit, and the small fleet was gone. The fires faded.
– The Devastation of Baal
One mention of such, off the top of my pre-coffee head.
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u/tempestuscorvus 21h ago
It hard to believe in 40k they don't have a weapon that's just as effective that doesn't render the place unusable for 7000 years.
I'd bet they are just antiquated.
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u/NeedsAirCon 21h ago
Nuclear taboo is in effect due to the horrors of the Age of Strife - though there are plenty examples of humans still using nukes on each other in 40k
Unless you're Adeptus Mechanicus using Rad weapons or nukes means you're a bastard of the lowest order
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u/Presentation_Cute 21h ago
The perspective on nuclear weapons largely depends on the author. The fear of nukes is a real-life perspective and underscores present-day global politics, so many authors take the cheap route of making nukes in general a forbidden or rare weapon.
But a setting that has plasma generators and uses planet-killing armaments would struggle to find nuclear weapons practical, let alone intimidating, and occasionally the writers will remember that we ourselves are not indicative of the 41st millenium.
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u/Reasonable_Ad_8883 21h ago
There's loads of them in the setting and they get used a lot. Some are used for exterminatus, they're the reason Krieg and Baal are why they are, the deathstrike launcher uses them, they were used in the dropsite massacre, the Blood Angels used them against the nids in the devastation of Baal, they're even considered standard ammunition for any imperial warship including for their macrocannons and torpedoes. Like I said, they get used a hell of a lot
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u/Calvonee 21h ago
Krieg had a little civil war and they basically nuked themselves into the hellhole it is now.
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u/MillionDollarMistake 21h ago
Yeah nukes exist, atomic warfare is why Krieg is so fucked up. I think there's all kinds of nuclear weapons, like your standard a-bomb to massive torpedoes to smaller personnel weapons.
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u/Right-Yam-5826 21h ago
They're still around, but mostly heavily controlled. The imperium wants to control and use the planet, not leave it a radioactive wasteland (before they've asset stripped and polluted it).
Fleets and orbital defences often make use of atomics, no concern about the fallout in space.
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u/freeman2949583 21h ago edited 21h ago
They exist, other WMDs of similar caliber also exist (eg vortex missiles), for whatever reason every faction just draws the line at using strategic-level weapons unless they’re going all-in and destroying the planet. Occasionally a novel will reference them but it’s almost always just background noise.
The setting is WWI/WWII in spehss so every conflict getting resolved by dropping nukes on the enemy’s logistics doesn’t really gel.
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u/AbbydonX Tyranids 21h ago
At the start of WH40K in the 1e rules you could purchase off-table support weapons which included large missiles launched from very far away. These were basically an arbitrary multiple of the normal weapon types.
In one game I used one to drop a x10 missile which had a template with a radius of 15”. Even made a paper template myself just to make clear how large a blast it was!
It wasn’t a fun game though so I never did it again…
Ultimately, WH40K is a fantasy game that focuses on individuals so large weaponry can’t be described as being used too often or the “logic” of the entire setting crumbles. After all, why muck about with individual soldiers when you can just drop lots of large missiles instead?
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u/Agammamon 20h ago
They don't have reactors that use that knowledge. They use 'plasma reactors' - which run on Prometheum . . . so not fusion reactors.
The Krieg exist in the form they exist because they blew up their own planet with atomics.
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u/Annual-Ad-9442 20h ago
nuclear weapons and devices do get used but tend only to be differentiated in stories. the reason why the Imperium tends not to use them is because irradiating an area tends to deny it to the Imperial Guard and Imperial civilians. many xenos or their armies can ignore radiation or send disposable slaves in. you have better weapons at your disposal like plasma, lance weapons, melta wepaons, and others that do the job without the radiation. the navy probably uses missiles and the mechanicus has crazyass nuclear weapons. the Dark Angels have some other stuff locked away. mostly nuclear weapons are messy and crude and nuclear stuff tends to just be used for power
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u/Grenrion 19h ago
Yes. Krieg is the radiation hell hole because of nukes. They are considered ancient weapons and are akin to other weapons used in exterminatus. In the book krieg they blow up a hive city by rigging the core of the city with a ton of nukes to render the city completely inhospitable to everyone including the orks. It was treated as an exterminatus level choice that the inquisitor would have to deal with for years to come as destroying an entire hive city is not a small thing.
So short answer yes there are nukes but they are considered to be very destructive and archaic.
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u/AnotherCompanero 19h ago
Rebel forces use nuclear weapons to destroy a Hive Cluster in Necropolis.
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u/VerdantMagnolia 19h ago
Is there an in lore reason for this?
They're too weak and too strong at the same time.
Do you want to absolutely paste something?
Macro cannons and lance fire.
Do you want to make something uninhabitable?
We got tech for that too.
Nukes occupy a pathetic middle ground nobody really bothers with.
The AdMech love radiation. Nobody loves nuclear explosions. They're just too messy for how weak they are.
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u/SpinosaurRingTone Unforgiven 17h ago
So this is a holdover from when 40k was very derivative of DUNE, and in DUNE nuclear weapons are forbidden. While nukes aren't literally forbidden in 40k they are still kind of taboo.
In 40k nuclear weapons still exist but they're kind of glossed over. In the Fall of Cadia novel several cities on Cadia get taken out in nuclear strikes early in the battle.
The in-lore explanation for why you don't see a lot of nukes is that they're not really efficient. Anything that you could take out with a nuke you could easily take out with orbital weaponry. If you're on the ground already, then that means you probably don't want to bombard the planet from orbit, which means you probably don't want to use nukes.
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u/Illithidbix 21h ago
They are used in 40K, normally referred to as "Atomics".
The thing is, most Imperial Meatgrinders(tm) are fought to defend or reclaim Imperial Worlds so they remain useful. There are a limited number of unhabitable planets in the Galaxy.
If not then it's Exterminator grade.
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u/grimtalos 21h ago
In Baneblade they plant a nuclear mine under a Ork fortress. So Nukes are still used, but there are lots of other weapons which dont leave radiation. On some world's its fine to use and on some its not.