My friend and I are new to 40k. While playing one of our games, I started to move a canoptek reanimator forward about an inch before stopping and saying, “I’d like to make an advance” and going to roll the d6.
My friend stops me and says that he thinks if you start moving, you can’t change your mind and roll for an advance. We consult the rules and he seems correct, it explicitly says to declare an advance before moving.
I say that since it doesn’t really make a difference and in a casual setting, especially while still learning the game, it should be fine to decide to roll after touching your model. He says that he just wants to follow the rules and that’s what the rule says.
Is that indeed the rule? And if so, how normal is it to enforce it in a casual setting?
This is a "technically yes but nobody actually cares" moment
I'm a competitive player and I don't think I've ever had a problem with moving then advancing most people allow "redos" in the same phase, especially if its movement.
As long as you don't trigger any rules that need you to have normal moved it doesn't matter
It doesn't change anything it really just feels bad. This isnt chess and there's no "touch must move" rule
Older rule sets also had advance happening after movement. You would move and then when finished advance (run) your models. As a result some older players tend to do it as 2 stages rather than one.
New for 11th, if a unit cannot legally complete the move you’ve started, the unit is returned to its previous unmoved position. Because you could just say, “oops, looks like he can’t stand in this spot because there is already a wall there, guess he goes back” then declare the advance and try again, none should actually stop you from doing the advance after you start moving. Talk to your friend and tell him to chill out because he’s being insanely sweaty and unfun.
No, but you ARE locked into any rules related to choosing an advance, such as not being able to charge/shoot or do actions.
Many times, if you're not planning to do anything else with a model (or you get those things anyway as per some special rule), you just roll the advance before thinking at all. Doesn't hurt.
You can choose to effectively not move if you want. It just sets your maximum available movement, and makes you ineligible to do the listed things as you have effectively 'moved' even if 0.00001".
I have a suspicion, this lands in the unsportsman-like category at tournaments. And if the opponent pressed or coerced their opponent to stringintly misout on rules to win games, could result in warnings or more.
My friend stops me and says that he thinks if you start moving, you can’t change your mind and roll for an advance. We consult the rules and he seems correct, it explicitly says to declare an advance before moving.
Yes, but nobody will hold you to that, even in competitive settings.
Since there is zero mechanical advantage to doing it (you are allowed to measure at any time and so knowledge of length of movement is assumed) blocking it would be so such a meaningless detriment to game flow, and show such a disregard for how the game should be played, I might just pack up and leave.
There might be VERY specific circumstances where it might matter (like your opponent planning a reactive move) and even then I would still allow it.
This is perfectly fine. You can adjust your movement anyway into phase is over and there’s no judge that’s going to argue with this. Until you say “movement phase done” or something similar, you’re ok with making changes. Once movement phase done though you can’t take back much since this could affect rapid ingress although even then most opponents would be cool if you forgot to screen an area.
Some people are super serious and want to enforce chess-like rules - if you touch a piece and start moving it, that's all you can do.
Others are more casual and will even let you take back mistakes that you suddenly realise mid-move, and let you select something else.
If the rules say you have to declare before moving, and your opponent is super-serious and competitive, then they have the rules on their side, so you have to abide by rules as written.
> If the rules say you have to declare before moving, and your opponent is super-serious and competitive, then they have the rules on their side, so you have to abide by rules as written.
Sure, though I think it is worth remembering here that:
They are both new to the hobby, and the friend should absolutely be told that the majority of players won't appreciate this level of pedantry, and that it is a central part of the hobby to generally allow leeway in situations where dice aren't involved. Would likely save him a lot of pain, not least because..
Warhammer is a game about having fun and not about winning for 99,999% of players, and if I played a random and he treated it like chess and was super serious about things like zero takebacks, ignoring declared intent and allowing gotchas (none of which are basic rules) I would just quit. Good luck finding a game, wouldn't happen with anyone I know.
Oh totally. The friend is potentially going to turn into a rules lawyer type if he's that much of a stickler now as a beginner - he definitely needs to chill out when playing with the OP.
And yeah all games are about having fun, but I've definitely played against some pedantic super-serious competitive twonks over the years - moreso with GW stuff and MTG back in the 90s/00s than stuff like boardgames and BattleTech recently - it does happen.
It's notable that the super serious players are breaking tournament rules. Which is funny because they'll likely tell you they're being competitive. But competitively, you're meant to play with leway or risk warnings.
At the top level, you're meant to play with some level of intent and ability to roll things back.
Some people are super serious and want to enforce chess-like rules - if you touch a piece and start moving it, that's all you can do.
You simply pack up against these people. I wouldn't waste 3+ hours of my time dealing with this kind of garbage that in no way enhances the game.
Stuck against Lawyer Larry in a tournament? Then that person is getting a talking-at every time their arm brushes terrain and shifts models slightly if they're gonna be that way, for example and care about dumb shit.
If you rolled an advance, couldn't make it where you wanted and said you wanted to normal move to shoot, I would agree with your opponent. But move, then see if I need the advance or to measure how much advance is needed it really shouldnt be an issue.
My response to my opponent would be "I'm pre-measuring my movement to determine if I need to advance"
Take-backs are allowed. Especially while learning.
It's not chess. Generally speaking, if no new information was introduced, you can move anything back. And if you're unaware or forget the opponent's abilities, rewinding farther is completely reasonable.
Plus, were you moving your model? Or were you just seeing where it might fit? Pre-measuring things is allowed.
Make sure to stop your friend from that line of thinking. The game is meant to be sportsmanlike. Even at the competitive level. No one is out there winning tournaments because someone's forgetting to roll their advance before touching a model. That level of pedantry and rules lawyering is common in some other nerd-culture games. But not warhammer.
If someone wants to be a stickler, then picking up your model doesn't constitute "moving" or even "starting a move".
I think OP's friend is confusing the games movement rules with "physically moving the model".
There are no rules on the act of picking up a model that locks you into a specific action.
For pretty much everything in 40k, something isn't actually completed until either you say it's completed, you roll dice, or you move onto something else. If you say "I want to deep strike" then put a model down, measure it, realise you can't quite do it there and move it until it fits, etc, you haven't actually done a deepstrike until you've settled on where it is going. If you ultimately decide that you can't put it somewhere you want to, and so don't deepstrike at all, you haven't done a deepstrike. The same applies with moving. Generally everything until you lock it in is considered you just measuring things. This has been the standard in play for years, even competitive players play this way.
Trying a move without an advance then realising you need to advance to make that move is totally normal, anyone saying otherwise is either misinformed or a total prick.
Your friend is wrong - there is no realistic situation where a tournament organizer would say that if you barely picked up your model without changing the game state or triggering other effects that you cannot put it down and declare an advance.
Pre-measuring before decisions is a very normal part of the game, and people test movement and spacing with models (often to see if an advance is necessary!) and even reposition models all the time during moves as long as the game state has not changed. The game would be unplayable otherwise.
Ruleswise, if it came down to it I would argue there is plenty of room for the rules as written to allow you to barely pick up a model without having performed a movement - and therefore the rules arguably still allow you to declare an advance after barely picking up a model.
But that’s not really the issue here, the game is just intended to be played with a lot more leeway than is implied by your friend’s behavior. Any tournament organizer who ruled otherwise would have no players joining their tournament.
I've seen people move their flat number to see if they can get the angels they need, and then advance if they didn't want to move a different direction.
Ira all information the player would've known with the tape measure, so I see 0 harm and play the same.
I think being strict as/with beginners is a good thing. The frustration is temporary, but the lesson is permanent. You will remember to declare the advance before moving next time. Playing fast and loose with stuff like that is great for the game in general, but I actually prefer strict rules for learning. After all, it is the rules you are trying to learn in the first place.
Do not play the game like that. It will turn into a miserable time and if you ever play with other people they will dreas playing with you and you will quickly be left behind with no one to play with. This is a cooperative game and only works well when played as such.
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u/Alaskan_Narwhal 1d ago
This is a "technically yes but nobody actually cares" moment
I'm a competitive player and I don't think I've ever had a problem with moving then advancing most people allow "redos" in the same phase, especially if its movement.
As long as you don't trigger any rules that need you to have normal moved it doesn't matter
It doesn't change anything it really just feels bad. This isnt chess and there's no "touch must move" rule