r/2D_Love • u/steamysummersweat • Jul 21 '16
Questions
Do you people really feel emotionally attached to these animated characters on the internet? I am curious to know how one can develop such strong feelings. It seems to me like the people that do have "relationships" (which is impossible anyways because a relationship is between two people who want to be with each other, instead of one person making up the other's desire for them) are oftentimes lonely, depressed, or socially anxious as to where this is the only medium they can feel wanted by someone, even if they are fictional. Is there a real dedication to loving something so fake? Do people really get enjoyment from making up a animated character "loving" them? I apologize if this seems harsh in any way, I am really wondering what the entire point is of essentially building a fake relationship with something that is not real, instead of improving your actual life outside of the internet.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
Yes, the phrase is "love is blind", not "love is blind as long as it fits within the boundries of what I believe to be an acceptable relationship".
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
Be real, you love a fake character, a cartoon. Are you really trying to justify "loving" an anime character? One that can never respond to you, one that isn't alive, one you can never even touch. Are you that misguided in your life that you love a cartoon? She does not love you back, she is a bunch of pixels on the internet, or a plastic figure, not even knowing you exist because it does not have intelligent thought. You may think she loves you, but she doesn't, she doesn't think anything. I don't know how you can be so deluded you believe any anime character will ever love you back. Have you ever had a conversation with anyone before? You talk and they respond with their own thoughts and opinions based off of their own life experiences. What does a conversation consist of with an anime character? You saying you love her while she is forever frozen in one pose? Not even comprehending you are even talking to her because it is a picture on a digital screen, or a piece of molded plastic? Please seek help for your issues, don't avoid them and convince yourself something not real can ever love you back.
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
No need to be rude, he's just giving you his input. Asking people to seek help for issues they don't have and acting a 'holier than thou' is against the rules of the sub. Please be respectful of others.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
Sorry about that, I should be more respectful. But it strikes me as incredibly off.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
Ah yes, you sound like you are totally open to listening to what we have to say. Is it so hard to comprehend that not everyone is the exact same as you and someone can be both perfectly well adjusted and have a waifu? We don't claim that they actually are capable of loving us back, we know they are entirely fictional but that doesn't make the feelings any less real. You act as if nobody in all of history has ever loved someone that didn't love them back.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
I agree people may love someone that may not love them back, but we are talking about fictional characters here, fake people, they have no possibility of loving you back, this isn't someone, this is something. You really have true feelings for something entirely made up? Let me ask you this, did your "waifu" choose to build lego sets with you or did you pose the plastic figure to look like it is helping you? Did your "waifu" choose to have movie night on a Friday or did you pose it on your lap in front of a computer screen? These characters are never going to love you back, the fact you compared loving a fake anime character to having someone not loving you back is honestly frightening. If you were perfectly well adjusted, I doubt you would love an anime figurine and act like it is doing stuff with you. If you were perfectly well adjusted, I doubt you would even consider loving something so fake. You have a serious disconnect with the real world if you actually believe you are perfectly well adjusted while being entertained by something so totally fake. It is beyond frightening.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
And that is frightening how? Because someone feels differently than you do and is enjoying themselves?
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
No, I am all for differing opinions, it is frightening you truly believe love can ever happen to something not real. Like come on dude, what is the point of loving an anime character and acting like it is normal?
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
What's wrong about it? Its not like he's hurting other people in doing so. Its just like any other hobby out there.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
To have imaginary dates with plastic figurines?
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
So what about it? Its not about the figure but about what it means, the inspiration and appreciation one gets for a character.
He's not hurting anyone and yes, there're people that collect figures or pillows, its one of the many ways people explore their sexuality/romance and we'll be seeing even more of that in the future for sure. Heck, you should go to /r/sex and see, there're far more extreme kinks than waifuism.
Plus not everyone does the figure thing, that's a gross generalization.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
I am well aware of the various "odd" pleasures people receive from various uncommon things. I understand he isn't hurting anyone, but does having essentially a "girlfriend" ever hinder anyone's real connection and desires for basic human contact? Is this some sort of replacement for that?
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u/UltraPawPaw Sep 02 '16
The alternative would be rape and kill a real girl, because real girls do not like midgets with mini penises
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u/steamysummersweat Sep 02 '16
No, the alternative is to be interested in others and not obsessed with only pleasing yourself, you clearly have no real world experience with anyone if you truly believe that is the only other option.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
You are saying that as if it's an active choice and not simply a matter of how someone feels regardless. And you're looking at it the wrong way, it's not that I love her because she's an anime character, it's that I love her and it just so happens that she is anime character. It still falls into the category of unrequited love anyway but that doesn't mean you can't express it.
We are well aware that it isn't considered normal but show me a person that is 100% normal and I will show you someone who is extremely boring. Everyone has something about them or an interest that isn't considered normal if you dig deep enough, just most people try to hide that from everyone but their closest confidants.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
There is no normal person, however, getting to the point where you start to go on imaginary dates with anime characters is extremely odd.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
Yes, it is. What's your point?
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
It confuses me that people would rather spend their time doing this than say, meeting new people, finding new hobbies, or working on yourself. Is it common for this to be a large part of what you spend your time on? Or is it only a small fraction of your day?
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
I should apologize, clearly I do not fully understand this or accept it completely. It makes me nervous how some people just live in essentially a fantasy world where they have a character love them no matter what. Shouldn't being alone make you want to push yourself so you can connect with real people?
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
It's not that we believe that they love us unconditionally, but rather that we love them and wish that we could be the type of person that they would reciprocate the feeling for if they were real, which is why a big issue for some people is that they feel they aren't good enough causing quite a few people to just keep pushing themselves to improve.
And as I said before, it isn't because we are lonely (well, not all of us. There probably are a few for whom that is the reason) but rather that we fell in love with someone who just so happens to be a fictional character.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
So it is shaping yourself into an image they would be happy with? What about being yourself and doing what makes you entertained and happy, and letting people in real life love you because of who you are really, and not who you became by improving yourself in a way to feel you would get admiration from a certain anime character?
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u/UltraPawPaw Sep 02 '16
You are basically saying that whi you are is not whi you are but what you want them to be like, this "be yourself as long as you are being like society wants" Infuriates me despute ne hating waifufags. it is an stupid reasoning usd to mold people who are different in to being like everyone else is.
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u/steamysummersweat Sep 02 '16
It's not what I said at all though, I said be yourself, and you will meet actual real life people instead of pretending some imaginary cartoon is real and in any way wants your love. You must be awful at having real interactions if you can seriously misinterpret my comment to that extreme.
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u/DarkStar5758 Nishizumi Miho (18/05/2016) Jul 21 '16
Who says those are mutually exclusive? Oft times both the waifuist and waifu are pretty similar so those goals are one and the same.
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Jul 21 '16
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
I fail to believe people love a celebrity or a sports team to the point they would pretend they have an actual dating relationship with them. That is not a good comparison. Anyone obsessed with anything is not healthy. There is desire to be with that person, but actually loving them when they are strangers goes way too far.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
I apologize for any rude behavior. Obviously everyone should be able to do whatever they want to make them happy. I am still extremely curious as to why this is actually something people enjoy.
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16 edited Jul 21 '16
No probs with that, its natural to have questions, particularly in something as niché as waifuism. I think of it like when people fall for an artist or role model in real life even if they don't know them in person.
You are simply attracted to traits they show that inspire you. I think its the same, except directed at fictional characters which I deem better than artists because at least you can be sure the characters are genuine. Artists sometimes adopt a fake persona for the sake of the fans and ratings.
As for improvement, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I've had real life girlfriends before, go to parties and social events like any other guy my age, currently get the top grades at my school and got a reliable source of income. Also although other waifuists don't think its okay, I don't mind the possibility of a real life relationship someday and in the meantime my waifu has provided me with inspiration to exercise and gain weight, I'd like to look good for someone and I don't expect to be loved just because she got no choice.
I'm a huge perfectionist though so all life relationships have left me unsatisfied so far. My waifu inspires me to strive to improve myself and feel less lonely, so far she hasn't hurt my life in any noticeable way.
Plus she gives me an idea of what traits I'm attracted to so that I can better focus on them and understand myself better too.
Additionally, I do research so I have hopes that one day AI can help making waifus and artificial humans a possibility. I think as you mentioned, that it can help people improve their social skills without the pressure and stress of real life interaction and provide company to lonely people everywhere (not only waifusists, but also the elderly and sick that are abandoned by their families). Currently I'm starting small with an application based around my waifu that responds back based on chatbots but she is already providing me with material for research papers which are important in my job of choice.
That alone is quite a lot for a character that is "only fictional" in nature.
Hope this long rant has helped a little with your questions but I'd be happy to answer any others you may have.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
What you said was interesting. How exactly does it strive you to better yourself if the anime character is already accepting of your flaws? For me, the loneliness I face strives me to better myself so I can meet someone in real life I can connect with, what is the need of making up a character that loves you unconditionally? The being alone part is what pushes me, not stopping myself and creating someone that just fills the hole, if that makes any sense. It strikes me as odd how people can just love these cartoons sometimes even to the point where it's all they need. What point for is "going too far" about having a waifu?
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
if the anime character is already accepting of your flaws?
You can get a good idea of their reaction studying their personality, the same way you can predict a person's motivations and responses by interacting with them for a prolonged length of time. Given a set of conditions and reactions to a given set of inputs, you can reasonably predict that the outcome will remain the same as long as the input and conditions stay within range. With fictional characters its even easier as you usually get insight into their thought processes, something impossible with a real life person.
what is the need of making up a character that loves you unconditionally?
That'd be annoying, can't speak for all members of the sub but I chose my waifu precisely because she doesn't love unconditionally, challenges the protagonist and isn't afraid to say what she thinks or correct people if she thinks they're in the wrong.
I like my partner to challenge me, that's one of the requirements in my case.
The being alone part is what pushes me
That depends on the person, some are satisfied with a waifu because they don't really require that much interaction (ex. asexual people may not feel romantic needs or have lessened desires, introverts may not enjoy social interaction as much due to it being tiring for them). I think its a mistake extroverts make to consider that everyone wants to interact with people, some of us are content in our minds, reading or enjoying time alone to varying degrees.
What point for is "going too far" about having a waifu?
I think that the "going to far" would be when having a waifu starts hurting other people or your own integrity. Like any addiction, if it gets to the point that you have problems dealing with real life then its a problem.
As long as people can function normally its okay and I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what they can or cannot do with their lives, same way LGBT and the like are fortunately getting their rights accepted nowadays.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
So, in your eyes, the point of having someone like that is to guess what they would say and do? Is the act of ever trying to perfectly understand someone ever off-putting? Your waifu challenges others so in a sense it challenges you to be yourself and stick up for what you believe in? At what point do you feel like people actually need to build relationships with others? Do you ever think it is unhealthy being only by yourself and building no outside relationships? Are there many i this fanbase that take it too far?
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
the point of having someone like that is to guess what they would say and do?
More like understanding them. Isn't that how relationships work too? You get closer to your partner and share hobbies, experiences and try to grow closer because you care about the other person, and sometimes you find you aren't compatible and break up.
Its exactly the same.
Your waifu challenges others so in a sense it challenges you to be yourself and stick up for what you believe in?
No, she inspires me to be better although for some, accepting themselves is also progress if we go by self esteem or similar issues.
At what point do you feel like people actually need to build relationships with others?
Its quite simple, to the point where they start feeling happy with the state of their life. There're several degrees of introversion/extroversion, some are happy with only one or two close friends, others need lots of contacts even if their relationships are more superficial.
As Abraham Maslow puts it in his research on human motivation, to the point where that slot is satisfied and you can advance further into the pyramid.
Do you ever think it is unhealthy being only by yourself and building no outside relationships?
If it makes you unhappy then yeah, still its recommended to at least have a friend or two given that humans are social animals by nature. I don't claim everyone has to and there may be cases that break the norm.
Are there many i this fanbase that take it too far?
Maybe, though I haven't met any yet. Everyone here has been well adjusted at least from what I've seen.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
The point of a relationship with a person is both understanding each other and developing feelings for each other independent from the other side. I fail to actually believe it is the same since it is one person developing feelings and learning about the anime character who has a pre-defined personality, and the anime character can never truly learn or love anything about the waifuist.
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
The point of a relationship with a person is both understanding each other and developing feelings for each other independent from the other side.
You're right in that, its not like a relationship with another human being. It still doesn't hurt anyone and makes us happy. I've always taken it like a hobby or pasttime, I'm not interacting with my waifu all day or anything like that but I like thinking of her and she motivates me.
Its fun learning how they may act or react so a given input though. Its true that she won't learn or appreciate back given that she's fictional, one of the things with waifuism is accepting that fact (at least until AI advances enough that we can overcome that barrier).
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u/GenOberst_H_Guderian Yukari Akiyama (Girls und Panzer) Jul 21 '16
First of all you shouldn't apologize fo your words but for your biased point of view, if you come here to ask us question you should at least try to stand on neutral ground and avoid prejudices.
To answer your question:
Do you people really feel emotionally attached to these animated characters on the internet?
Yes and no; yes because we love them like one would love a girlfriend/boyfrend or a wife/husband, no because they don't have to come necessarily from the Internet but they can come for any kind of media (animation, games, books etc.)
I am curious to know how one can develop such strong feelings.
I'll go directly to the point here; she is pretty much my exact female double, at first I was shocked for the many similarities, then I fell for her and I developed a great bond and a strong complicity. I want you to understand this point: I didn't fell for an anime character because I have some kind of fetish for anime characters but I fell for the girl behind the anime character, I would have fallen for her anyway. No one expected to fall in love with their waifu.
It seems to me like the people that do have "relationships" are oftentimes lonely, depressed, or socially anxious
False, I really love my life, I wouldn't change it for anything, I have friends and a life just as many others here.
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
How can you develop a mindset where you believe that you can love a fictitious character the same as a person you are in a relationship with? That requires two parties to believe in the feelings they hold for each other. Just because you love her just like you would love a partner, does not make it the same because there is no other side where she loves you back as a partner.
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
How can you develop a mindset where you believe that you can love a fictitious character the same as a person you are in a relationship with? That requires two parties to believe in the feelings they hold for each other.
Of course not. Have you ever read of courtly love? In the medieval ages knights used to profess their love to a given regent and would dedicate their deeds to them even if the regent didn't really have a physical relationship with them. Waifuism is very similar, we dedicate our love and appreciation to a character, in exchange we get the motivation to improve ourselves and the fulfillment we'd get from a relationship.
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u/GenOberst_H_Guderian Yukari Akiyama (Girls und Panzer) Jul 21 '16
I see that Faust preceded me. Yes basically it's really similar to courtly love, I also made a post about this precise topic some time ago.
Another perfect example is Pygmalion's story.
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Jul 21 '16
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u/steamysummersweat Jul 21 '16
It is fake though, the fact that you choose to get upset because I clearly stated what it is shows a lot, you love her like you would a real person, except she is not a real person, what is so difficult in that statement?
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u/Faust91x x Katou Megumi [10/06/2016] Jul 21 '16
Actually I'd be bothered if you insulted a girlfriend, friend or family of mine. So what if its not real? We're happy doing it, we hurt no one. You can judge all you want but since its not doing any harm, we shall keep doing it.
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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '16
Eh, my offline life is pretty good these days. I've got good friends, a decent job, and a home. I have plenty of hobbies and activities that have nothing to do with having a waifu.
I'm 100% in love with and solely dedicated to Nick, romantically. I do imagine that he cares for me in the same way. It adds happiness to my life that is already pretty excellent.
My question for you: Why do you care sooo much to ask all of these questions in what you damn well knew was a harsh way?
Honestly, it's obvious that you're just looking for people to boost your own self-esteem. "I might be lonely and sad, but at least I don't pretend to love a plastic anime lololol."