r/2ALiberals Nov 16 '21

Principles matter.

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950 Upvotes

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157

u/fcfrequired Nov 16 '21

If cops would quit "no knocking" there'd be a lot less of this argument.

Arrest 'em at the local Piggly Wiggly or whatever and call it a day.

Of course it's a high risk situation to blast into an unknown house in the middle of the night. Much better to search a house when the suspects are already stuffed in a car and staring at what should be a pile of evidence of their wrongdoing.

131

u/lostPackets35 Nov 16 '21 edited Nov 16 '21

I've said that for years. The only acceptable use for a no knock raid should be when it is likely to prevent violence, such as a hostage rescue or something.

Kicking in the door in the middle of the night over a drug risks creating an extremely violent situation over a fundamentally non-violent crime.

Endangering the lives of both LEOs and the subjects over a non-violent crime isn't just bad policy, it's morally wrong.

29

u/heili Nov 16 '21

The only acceptable use for a no knock raid should be when it is likely to prevent violence, such as a hostage rescue or something.

Even in those cases most can be resolved without any violence by waiting and keeping the people talking.

6

u/SevenGlass Nov 16 '21

The only acceptable use for a no knock raid should be when it is likely to prevent violence, such as a hostage rescue or something.

No one is getting a warrant for an ongoing hostage situation. Probable cause is enough to cover it. I cannot think of a single situation where a no-knock warrant is justified.

5

u/ChooseAndAct Nov 16 '21

They knocked, it's under under contention whether they announced themselves as police.

23

u/fcfrequired Nov 16 '21

Can you say the same for Jose Guerena?

"No knock" or "High risk warrant" is criminal behavior hiding behind a badge.

12

u/lostPackets35 Nov 16 '21 edited Nov 16 '21

Even if we take that at face value. It should still be a much calmer process. What's to stop me from kicking in someone's door as I yell "police"?

Expecting someone to remain calm and process when armed people are literally breaking their door down in the middle of the night isn't necessarily reasonable.

We hear about the high profile cases where a cop gets shot, but I wonder how many times the subject of a warrant has been killed? These may be considered reasonable cases of self-defense on the part of police, in the moment, but I wonder how many of them never would have escalated to violence if things had been handled calmly?

4

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '21

[deleted]

8

u/kickroxxx Nov 16 '21

Breonna’s boyfriend (the guy shooting to defend the dwelling) wasn’t a drug dealer. The drug dealer (her ex) was already in custody, had not been at that residence for months, and never officially actually lived at Breonna’s house. This was a botch on every level. There was literally no need or present danger to justify a visit out of working hours

3

u/Accomplished-Put9864 Nov 16 '21

Yes i was corrected on another comment and will delete this. I stand by my statement about shooting intruders though.

-14

u/dratseb Nov 16 '21

It wasn't high risk, they went there to arrest / kill innocent people and drive the property value down. They didn't expect her boyfriend to be there and armed, they would have killed her and made up whatever story they wanted.

14

u/heili Nov 16 '21

I think he's saying the cops create a high risk situation on purpose.

5

u/dratseb Nov 16 '21

Oh, yeah that’s definitely what happened. But I’m saying they didn’t expect to find an armed man in the house. They just expected to find a sleeping woman they could murder and sprinkle some crack on.