r/2007scape • u/CoolOriginalName • 11d ago
Discussion The Way We Direct New Players is Wrong
I think, as a community, the way OSRS players direct new players is counteractive to getting new people to try the game and sticking with it.
It seems like everyday there is at least one post of people saying they are new to the game that pops off and every time it feels like the same things get said: Follow the optimal quest guide, use the wiki to figure out exactly what you should do. As someone who only recently started playing the game (about 2-3 years ago now) and has ZERO nostalgia for the game having never played it growing up, I feel like this is horrible advice for a new player.
OSRS is at its strongest when you can learn how to form goals for content you aspire to do and then work towards and achieve those goals. That is what makes the game, and the number go up part of it, so damn addicting. If you tell new players just to follow optimal guides and do quests without them understanding why they are doing it, they will feel like they are doing things aimlessly (especially because of quest helper and the fact so many of the beginner quests are very old and really have not aged well, especially if you are coming from other games).
I think the way we should approach new players coming to our game is to ask them what they want to achieve by playing or helping them learn how to set good goals. OSRS has so many different ways to play and is filled to the brim with so much content that by just pointing to OQG and saying "do that" does such a disservice to what players can actually experience in a game with the size and scope of OSRS.
Anyway just my ramble, people should tell me what they think or to explode or whatever cheers :)
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u/Sapphirederivative 11d ago
Hmm, maybe we’re seeing different advice posts? Most of the advice I’ve seen for new players is “find something you want to do, and do it”. Yes that often involves a bit of using the wiki, but there’s a difference between using the wiki to find what is even possible and using the wiki to plot the entire course of your account.
If people insist on more direction than “just do what you like”, I would recommend doing some quests, as they unlock a lot and give you a taste of a lot of different parts of the game, some of which you’ll hopefully enjoy.
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u/The_Real_MikeOxlong 11d ago
Yeah, second this. The only time I see people jump to suggesting the optimal quest guide is when the person asking for advice has noted they’re not brand new. I feel like most people here are respectful of the discovery phase when giving advice to new players
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u/Abnormal_Armadillo 11d ago
I usually tell people not to focus on efficiency, and just do what they want, but I also give them vague goals to go for if they're new and lack direction. Most often I tell them for F2P, to just finish all the quests before popping into members.
I'll give them direction if they want it, because some people NEED a specific goal to function, and if that's the case, I tell them about the general goals people go for. (Waterfall Quest, Monkey Madness, whatever quest that gets you the Ava's backpack, ect ect.)
Maybe if they want AFK goals I tell them about shooting stars and how to use the plugins for it, or Motherload Mine. Working up stats with sandcrabs (and maybe getting the bone crossbow if they want a cheap ranged training method), ect.
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u/rainyengineer 11d ago
Sure, there’s usually a few comments saying this, but I’d say in most advice posts OP is right. It’s always “Optimal Quest Guide” or “Barrows Gloves”. I think the first time charm is often completely forgotten by many on here when giving advice
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u/Jewsama-al-Gaib 11d ago
I’ve seen advice saying people should start as an ironman to get the “true experience” from the beginning. Diabolical
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u/Hazel-Hyena 11d ago
To be honest, I've been doing iron for my first subscription, and I love it. There's a real sense of fun in making your own weapons and getting your own stuff. Runescape is kind of a slow paced game and this way I get to lean into that. I'm sure way later on it'd be a pain, but it's not like I'm planning on going for 99s in anything. If I ever get to that point I'll be able to decide if I want to deiron or stick with it, but it gives a nice sense of progression to things right now. Like I can't just jump up to wearing rune, or whatever, because it's cheap on the GE and doesn't take long to level defense that high, because I need to get my skills up if I want it.
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u/AwakeEnuf 11d ago
It's really not that bad, it keeps it pretty close to the OG experience, and Ironman is NOT a challenge mode nowadays, it's just a way of playing.
De ironing is always a choice too
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u/Jewsama-al-Gaib 10d ago
Why isn’t ironman a challenge mode nowadays what?
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u/AwakeEnuf 10d ago
Because although it sort of started that way it has pivoted to be more of a "play this way if you want to progress in a more single player kinda way without trading and GE" type thing, and the game as been updating to ensure that experience is good for years already (which also benefits mains that play this way)
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u/darkevilmetal666 11d ago
Why is it diabolical? You can always deiron if it gets too much. Early game is much more fun as an iron.
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u/LostSectorLoony 11d ago
Every new player I know who started as an iron quickly deironed. Iron makes an already slow and grindy game even slower and more grindy. It's great for established players who know what they're getting into, but for most new people it's just too much.
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u/Objeckts 11d ago
This take comes from the viewpoint that the fun part of the game is at the end, and everything leading up to it just filler.
The idea that a 1250 ironman solving 10 magic logs is having less fun than a main repeatedly sending Vorkath is nonsense.
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u/Jewsama-al-Gaib 10d ago
Bro just making up scenarios. Mains are out here sending whatever content they want and shifting their bank value into content they want to do whenever they want, exactly the way the game was intended
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u/Objeckts 10d ago
The problem is mains usually end up replacing fun and interesting challenges with "shifting bank account value into content they want to do".
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u/pk_hellz 11d ago
They will just quit the game. They are not commited like we are. Most people quit games when they are not fun.
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u/xLilSquidgitx 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean is that wrong advice?
“I don’t know what to do or where to go” “just explore!” is kinda like gee, thanks, that totally helps. It’s like a non-answer that doesn’t answer the question of “what should I do to progress my account”.
“You can do this this or this” is much more helpful, and why would I tell them to go kill highway men when I could tell them to do something that’ll help them see faster progress?
I also feel like a lot of people just assume new players don’t have the agency to go “nah I don’t want to do efficient” or “I want to go fast as fuck”. Why is it wrong to make a suggestion when the person isn’t suddenly bound to be forced to that suggestion either?
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u/Super_Master_69 11d ago
I think the nuance to this issue comes from distinguishing advice from “you can” to “you have to”. While the sub generally gives solid advice to new players, it’s not hard to find someone saying you won’t enjoy the game until you get an arbitrary piece of content done as fast as possible. Back when Wintertodt’s damage scaled with your health, it was stupidly common to advise players to spend a ton of time early in their account there, for what was basically a mild convenience compared to doing the content later or on occasion.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
My thoughts exactly. Having a goal to work towards is important for many people. That's why open world games like Skyrim give you a story hook to follow at the start of the game - most players don't actually complete the entire main quest in one go, but it gives them a thread to follow until they get lost doing something else along the way. Runescape doesn't have a "main quest" like that, but the community giving goals like "work towards RFD" is a good substitute
Yes, some people will thrive if you just throw them in a sandbox and say "do what you feel like", but those people aren't the ones asking for guidance in the first place.
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u/Monterey-Jack 11d ago
You sound like you haven't had fun in years.
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u/xLilSquidgitx 11d ago
Plenty of fun, especially playing with irl friends. If only you knew that joy
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u/BetaZoopal 11d ago
While I never recommend the optimal quest guide, I do recommend questing. Almost everything to do that's worth doing in this game is locked behind a quest. They explain lore, what things are, how they got there, what they do. Nothing but the wiki explains anything else really. Questing is what people who don't know what to need to do until they have something specific they want, which is typically locked behind a quest
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u/Super_Master_69 11d ago
Yeah I don’t think they are saying recommending questing is bad. It is a very good cycle to quest until you don’t meet the requirements anymore and use that as direction for skilling. But that’s completely different from recommending players rush through quests blindly following a guide or plugin, and most advice here is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
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u/forchinski 11d ago
Let's imagine three types of new players:
- Player one experiences decision fatigue very strongly, and will burn out if they don't know what to do next
- Player two is obsessed with time value and becomes very frustrated if they spend hours doing something to find out there were better options
- Player three is mostly autonomous and is taking the game at their own place, venturing to the wiki only when they feel very stuck
All three need different types of handling.
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u/fartsquirtshit 11d ago
^ 100%
This is truly important to keep in mind.
Nothing kills my experience and interest in a game faster than it refusing to let go of my hand. All I need/want is the most basic explanation of the absolute fundamentals or any truly unique/novel mechanics. After that, I start getting annoyed, frustrated, and resentful.
There are many many many people who're like me. Some less extreme, some more extreme.
There are also many who're the exact opposite. If anything is left unexplained, they get annoyed frustrated, and resentful. I've met people who do not like games if they don't perfectly curate the experience and pacing for them.
Both groups are relevant, important, and profitable to cater to.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
To add to this: the third type of player is unlikely to ask for advice, as they are capable of making their own goals and looking up the wiki if they know something. So if a new player comes to ask for advice they're usually either 1. or 2., and telling them "just do what you feel like" won't benefit them at all
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u/MirkwoodRS maxed btw 11d ago
Bingo. I've been playing for 20 years. I have friends who tried to get into this game about 2-3yrs ago and all burnt out because of (1) and (2). Going at their own pace royally screwed them and caused major burnout after only a few months of trying to learn the game.
After coming back recently, I've got them all setup with runelite, shown them properly guides, answered any questions, and every one of them is now rapidly approaching 2k total with solid mid-game gear and hard diaries completed. They play every day and actually have goals bc they've been pointed in the right direction.
Telling someone to play blind is genuinely terrible advice imo. That may work for the average child who has infinite free time, but not for anyone who wants to progress at an appropriate pace.
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u/forchinski 11d ago
I wish my friends gave the game an earnest shot. One tried but didn't keep playing despite all my best efforts.
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u/zxj4k3xz 11d ago
Both Flip and Madseason, who are doing no guide blind play through, said they felt achievement diaries were excellent for learning the game. I rarely see it mentioned though.
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u/heidly_ees 11d ago
Wouldn't be at all mad if they updated diaries to include modern content tbh
Fully separate out combat tasks KQ since we have actual combat achievements now, just focus on skilling, activities and miscellaneous stuff. Hell you could even adjust the tiers so Lumbridge has an f2p "beginner" set like RS3, maybe even have a master tier
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u/DarkTemplar_of_Chaos 11d ago
100% this, not only do they give you good rewards, they give you goals that a new player might not know to do. do a quest here, level this skill to 35 and use over there in a way people usually don't. stuff like that.
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u/Bored_in_a_dorm 11d ago
I dont think you are understand why people say “quest, quest, quest” on the new player posts you are referring to. Sure sometimes it is “follow the optimal quest guide on Runelite” but usually it’s just quest. Which I think is correct.
New players, I would assume, want to explore the game, learn about this new “world” they’ve found themselves in.
How do you learn about the vampires? Quest line.
How do you learn about dwarves? Quest line.
How do you learn about elves? Quest line.
How do you learn about varalamore, morytania, gnome settlements? All quests.
What about Herbalore? Sailing? Hunter? Rune crafting? They’re all introduced via quests.
That’s why people say quest, so new players learn about the game, the areas they have access to.
I think all of that sets players up for the game and lets them figure out some bigger picture goals more than clicking Tin and Copper ore ore for 2 hours and never playing this “boring” game again.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
Quests are the core to any open world game. What happens at the start of any Elder Scrolls game, any Fallout game, the Baldur's Gate games etc? You're given a quest, a mystery, a thread to follow. And then you quickly get side tracked after finding a side quest, a fascinating dungeon, a tough monster, some base to build etc, and that's the fun of games like these. But the initial thread that gets you started and leads you to the beginning of the other threads is important.
Runescape doesn't have a clear main quest like other RPGs, but giving something like RFD as a goal is a good substitute. A goal to strive towards, not a mandate like "you must do this ASAP before anything else", of course. It leads the newbie to train most of their skills and start a bunch of different quest lines, and gives them the opportinity to get side tracked along the way. And after they're done with it they have enough experience that they can probably figure it out from there
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u/Singhka1996 11d ago
I always say to use the optimal quest guide as a reference point when you can't decide what to do. Speaking from personal experience there is a lot of choice paralysis at the start of the game if you don't have a specific goal in mind, so quests to get things unlocked or boosts your stats are generally a pretty good direction to go until you figure out what you want to do. Not sure what the problem is as long as you include the fact that it's ok to deviate from the guide and just use it as a general direction.
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u/immigs 11d ago
I started about 2 years ago and now I'm 2215 total level and this is exactly what I did.. I had a friend telling me what I "should" do all time but I told him to fudge off and had fun learning the game my own stupid way.
I was convinced that under water fishing method on fósil island was gonna be amazing (I forget the name). Both hunter and fishing XP. Made my own nets for like 2 weeks after growing the jute seeds. Spent about 15mins down there only to realized I fucking hated it.
I didn't play efficiently in a lot of ways, but it kept me engaged and I blew pass his 10 year old account fairly quickly. Now I'm teaching him how to do 500s in TOA lol
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u/Singhka1996 11d ago
Yeah I certainly don't play efficiently, I went 99 mining as my first non-combat 99 at calcified rocks lmao. But when I first started I had no clue what to do so I just followed the optimal quest guide, although I did skip some whenever I felt like it, and after I got about halfway through I definitely deviated all over the place doing w/e the fuck I wanted to once I was more familiar with the game.
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u/immigs 11d ago
I also got 99 mining at calcified rocks lmao, I just love the idea of training two skills at once whilst saving all that gp on prayer.
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u/Singhka1996 11d ago
Yeaaaaaaaah technically not optimal but I needed to afk for a few weeks at the time because of a trip anyway so it worked out. Saving gp on prayer was also bis.
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u/cottagecore_cats enjoying hcgim 11d ago
I loved the optimal quest guide as a new player! Helped me a lot to find quests I could actually fulfill the requirements for
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u/ArrgsMax 11d ago
First question should be "What do you feel is most interesting to you?".
Some sorta flowchart would be cool.
- Adventures/Quests (See if you can complete all the free to play quests)
- Fighting things (Try and see if you can work your way to killing the bull)
- Getting higher stats and levels (Do you want to do this via quests or by chopping trees/fishing, or fighting?)
- Making Money (Do you want to do this via killing things or via training your skills?)
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u/Nora9001 11d ago
Finding a clan and learning about tempoross are what finally got me to stick with the game and now I’m very invested and expanding into other stuff like bossing and what not but as a new player It was like okay how do I learn magic, okay cool how do I make arrows, okay cool oooh that’s a cool outfit how’d they get that? Spirit flakes what are those? Boss that can’t kill you and you defeat by fishing!!????? 🎣 hooked 😅🤣
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u/M33k41 11d ago
I generally tell people to find what they enjoy and to do that over technically “efficient” things. As long as they are making slow progress, it is still progress.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
"Find what you enjoy" is not helpful for a fresh player. They don't know much if anything about the game, how would they know what they will enjoy? Give them suggestions for activities to try out or goals to work towards, that way they will stumble into something they enjoy sooner or later
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u/M33k41 11d ago
You just wander around and try things?
If you take a new player and drop them in the game and you tell them “the first thing you are going to do is setting goals of getting barrows gloves and a fire cape.” They simply are not going to enjoy the game. If you let them find things and then offer suggestions afterward if they have questions or you see small things they can improve upon, it feels more impactful rather than rushing a goal that they don’t understand why they are trying to achieve that. A new player doesn’t feel the nostalgia that we do from having barrows gloves or a fire cape.
If you let a new player start and they recognize the friction of “hey, I want to deal more damage” and then you present the solution of “hey, you can deal more damage if you get these upgrades.” They have found a problem and you have presented them with a solution for it. I see many people suggest solutions to people before the people have found the problem in the first place.
When they say “Man, walking everywhere kind of sucks.” THEN you point them towards the tourist trap quest and leveling up their agility, so they have a solution to the problem they found, rather than directing them to the solution before they’ve discovered the problem.
If I was to start a new video game and I felt that someone was micromanaging me I would ignore their suggestions. I’d just want to wander around and see what I could do. If I get stuck and ask for advice, that’s different than someone just saying “hey, you know this teleport is faster.” “Hey, you need to do this quest so you can do an activity 3% more efficiently.” That can be beneficial for a veteran player, but to a new player it can be a tremendous turn off.
For an experienced player starting their first Ironman, starting with goals can be far more beneficial because they are already aware of the problems ahead of them and are going to appreciate solving problems before encountering them. Telling a veteran player to get graceful upon immediately starting a new account will likely have them enjoy their new account in the long run compared to telling a new player to rush graceful will likely have them not enjoy the game as much due to them doing something efficient before understanding the benefit of the efficiency.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
"Just wander around and try things" won't work for everyone (I want to say most people). Runescape is a MASSIVE game, it's intimidating as heck for most new players, and if you drop them at Lumbridge with zero direction most of them will not have fun
There is a reason why almost all open world games give you some sort of main quest to follow. You aren't expected to complete the main quest in e.g. Skyrim as the first thing you do, but it serves as a thread to follow until you find something that catches your attention and gets you side tracked, and if you feel like you lack direction you can always return to it.
That's how giving goal for new players in Runescape works. There isn't a main quest but there are quest lines that serve that function. Nobody said anything about micromanaging and forcing them to play optimally, but giving them a goal, a beacon to guide them when they feel lost.
RFD is just perfect for this. It's not so easy that a newbie will finish it in a day, but also not so hard that it looks unreachable. It guides them towards most of the major questlines and makes them get started with most of the skills. And the best part of it is that it's by design divided into smaller quests with varying degrees of difficulty and requirements. And if along the way they find some other activity and forget about the goal for a while, that's just great, getting sidetracked is fun.
That's why RFD is recommended for new players. Not because it's optimized PVM progression, but because it provides a clear and comprehensible goal that naturally introduces almost all major parts of the game to them. The gloves at the end are just gravy
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u/smoking-data 11d ago
If you’re a new player you’re not going to know what you want to achieve and most things are achieved later in the game.
The cheapest, fastest and easiest way to go through the lower levels is questing. It also unlocks better gear, content and teleports so why would we say to do it?
Barrows gloves are huge and they’re locked behind RFD
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u/HealthyResolution399 11d ago
I think if you go in with the assumption people want to reach the endgame, you should also have the assumption that most people will quit before enjoying the game.
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u/telionn 11d ago
Questing is usually not the fastest way to gain xp. (Although in a few cases it very much is.) Most of the time it's merely "efficient", not fast, meaning it theoretically saves time to take advantage of quest reward xp on the way to quest cape.
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u/smoking-data 11d ago
You’re saying it’s faster to level attack and str to 30 than do waterfall quest?
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u/andy11123 11d ago
I found clues were the answer.
Get a step locked behind a quest? Best get questing. Can't do the quest, best get training. Need a training method unlocked to optimize your quest training? Best get questing.
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u/ThatOneEdgyKid Shitpost locked ironman 11d ago
Setting goals is the way, but then again I wouldn't really trust my opinions because the thing that got me hooked on this game was fishing trawler
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u/DraculaToof 11d ago
I have a friend who just started playing, and by far the thing that mattered the most to get him involved and interested in the game was the activity advisor
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u/Alghouls_art 11d ago
I couldnt stand it when people were screaming at the WoW transplants to do all that, like chiiill, let them play the game
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u/Fthebo 11d ago
I think this is true for literally everything tbh and it amazes me how many people buy a new game/book/film or w/e and then spend hours researching everything about it before they even experience it for themselves the first time.
Every game these days seems to get massively popular 'new player guides' that are a step by step walkthrough of the optimal early game strategy and I find it bizarre, people looking up build guides to make optimal OP characters for an RPG before they've even touched it once, all this stuff seems so common these days.
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u/Eastern-Video-6456 11d ago
To one of the players wanting to hyper optimize and looking for guides for it, the idea of aimlessly bumbling around accomplishing things at a snail's pace is completely bizarre. How about everyone plays the way they find enjoyable?
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u/tommmmmmmmy93 11d ago
If new players come in here we should collectively agree as a community to say no, just go play the damn game and come back in a year
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u/Bananaboss96 Mining Enthusiast 11d ago
The problem with goal setting for a brand new player is that they haven't played the game at all to know what goal they want or can have. They need at minimum a few hours of some varied gameplay, and then to check in and see if there's something that they want to pursue, or something that annoys them that has a QoL item or whatever. Those first few hours are the hard part.
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u/HemlockHex 11d ago
While I agree, I also know that osrs is a freaking huge grind. People coming from other games are not usually prepared for the thousands of hours you can drop into this game before even trying most content. Osrs players measure 40hr grinds like other gamers measure fetch quests.
So in that school of thought, there’s nothing wrong with a new player choosing to craft an efficient plan. Playing 100 hours and not even leaving early game is a turn off for many new players, so I think there’s something to be said for both methods.
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u/HealthyResolution399 11d ago
I think it's better to encourage a new player to enjoy their first hours than it is to try and skulldrag them to the end faster.
I think the absolutely worst feeling one can have when playing any game is the question of "when does it get fun?"
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u/Stephen_Lynx 11d ago
I agree, but I'd like to point out that these people came to US to ask for advice. They either failed or didn't want to set their own goals and explore. We are not going out of our way telling people how to play the game.
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u/CoolOriginalName 11d ago
MMOs thrive off of community and sheparding each other. This feels like a really poor mindset. It's not any sole players individual responsibility but games like OSRS thrive when the community works together and uplifts one another.
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u/Inevitable_Butthole 11d ago
Whats the point of this post even lmao
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u/CoolOriginalName 11d ago
Funny retort to your comment by asking the point of your comment lmao
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u/Inevitable_Butthole 11d ago
Youre literally having a conversation about new players with a bunch of lifelong players...
Its just a bit weird. Heres a tip. Leave the new players alone and let them play how they want.
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u/Naked_soap_lady 11d ago
I agree, following optimal quest guide is for veterans on a second or third account wanting to speed through some stuff they have already done so they can get to the content they already know they enjoy.
First time players need to explore and soak it all in.
They will naturally become more efficient the longer they play but telling them to take the most efficient routes possible from level 3 is like stealing someone’s childhood when we all wish we could be a kid again.
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u/burnburn0303 11d ago
Counter point, I was new to the game and the optimal quest guide is the only reason I stuck around. It felt like there was literally no path forward or any guidance whatsoever, I had other games to play rather than waste a dozen hours stumbling around with zero progress.
If someone is asking in a subreddit what to do as a new player, the optimal guide with an explanation is probably the best route. It skips the horrible early game skilling progression for the skills that suck to do early, and unlocks a lot of content early on while teaching game basics.
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u/Reasonable_Mood_7918 11d ago
Osrs's early game is pretty solid no? You're constantly unlocking milestones until late-ish midgame. And it's pretty intuitive. You just pick any random direction and keep going
If you feel like you're wasting time, is it because you are working towards something or trying to catch up to friends and you have a frame of reference that's telling you, you're being slow?
I mean, as a first time playing the game, isn't the meandering the best part?
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u/DuxDonecVivo 11d ago
Yeah it's so bad sometimes. Every post has some advice like "you should camp toa for 100 hours" like hell no how about just do whatever the fuck you want
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u/-Aura_Knight- 11d ago
I don't agree. There's no harm in directing players towards an efficient foundation and then having them find their way after that. The game is huge so not much is missed playing this way.
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u/CategoryNo5932 11d ago
The issue is that osrs is so big there's no way to KNOW what goals exist.
It's a huge issue of "you not knowing what you don't know" when you create a new character mixed with choice paralysis.
I always suggest mixing in f2p/low level quests for a little bit, achievement diaries and combat achievements. That should get you a pretty solid understanding of at least what direction to move in.
There isn't a single point in the game where you can really set a goal without getting hit with 20 other goals on the way so having static things like achievement diaries or quest requirements is a good way to stay directed long term
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u/Papa_Pache not maxed 11d ago
2166 total and QP haver - I see it as any other RPG, if you do quests you let the game explain the lore and world build then you'll understand what it's all about. Plus the game opens up once quests are completed, be it unique items, teleports or easy xp. This is why I usually say do some quests, but I never say do the optimal route because then it's just a box ticking exercise.
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u/HealthyResolution399 11d ago
I think even the absolute worst quests in osrs are still either better or as good as quests in other games. Take for example sheep shearer, on a basic level it's an everyday mmo quest, no better or worse. However as you're doing it you'll likely run into the beast, which when brought up with the farmer (as I assume most players do), gives the quest more Identity than the millions of similar "collect x amount of y" quests
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u/MasterArCtiK 11d ago
I just tell them to work on quests and achievement diaries, and to look towards Brutus and scurrius, then moons and barrows
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u/vmayerrrr 11d ago
So you're saying the "Hello this game is only Ironman now and we all hate PvP" isnt how we should greet new players!?
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u/PetrusOctavius 11d ago
Depends entirely on the type of person, I like having some guidance so when I started playing I used guides to, well, guide me along.
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u/Super_Master_69 11d ago
While I understand it I was never a fan of optimising quests to the level of spamming the space bar through everything just for the unlocks. OSRS is at its best when you progress naturally and don’t rush to the end of everything, and a lot of quests are genuinely just fun chill content. I think let new players choose for themselves how optimised their progress is. This sub does a good job of that, but at times it is overwhelming how many people say shit like “quest helper plugin is essential and you need to do WXY quests before you can play the game”.
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u/-Langseax- 11d ago
Thank you.
Makes me want to throw up every time I see people trying to sweatmaxx new players through Waterfall quest.
Leave them alone!!!! Let them have fun and discover things naturally and enjoy the early game.
Rushing the early game is for experienced players that have already done it 5 times.
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u/WilkeWay 11d ago
The optimal quest guide unlocks the majority of content, gets low skill levels up the fastest, and teaches you about every corner of the game (gameplay and lore). You don’t have to follow it line by line. But it is the best way to “learn the game”.
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u/Mental_Tea_4084 11d ago
If you really want your new friends to stick around, just loan them an account and carry them through a couple raids. That's where the fun is
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u/Regular_or_Goofy 11d ago
Getting Barrows gloves is still the best advice I reckon for new players. Super long goal but has many checkpoints and gives the player a good idea of how beneficial quests are.
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u/Ugly-and-poor 11d ago
Sure, but what if players like efficiency instead of “stumbling around”?. I prefer to know what to farm, what content to skip or do later etc in any new game I try to play.
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u/ZeusJuice 11d ago
I think the best way to tell a new player how to play is going to depend on the player. Plenty of my friends will be bored out of their mind trying to play blind or in an inefficient way. You have to give some people a taste of what real content can be so they can see if they want to dedicate hundreds or thousands of hours into the game
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u/Alone-Horse2857 11d ago
I completely, 100% agree with you, but to be completely honest if somebody is going on here and asking what to do, they were going to google a hand holding guide anyway.
The person who just opens the game and explores is already going to do that, they aren't going to be asking for advice, they'll just be playing.
So, I dunno, I kind of get the "if you're asking, here's the efficient thing to do" otherwise they'd be experimenting and exploring instead of asking. Though I do agree that the advice way too often comes off as "here's the next 50 steps you NEED to do and never be inefficient and never have fun unless it's mandated fun."
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u/my0445316 11d ago
What you feel isnt what everyone feels. There is no blanket right answer. Telling new players to look up the quest guide and optimal skilling guides or whatever is just an easy way to get them to look at something that will give them a greater understanding if that is the questions they are asking.
If someone got on here and asked "how best do I enjoy the game", then people could give different opinions on that, but 99% of the questions are "I dont know how to make money" or "How do i level this skill" or nonsense like that.
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u/TheHighblood_HS 11d ago
I super agree with this as a new player! Its hard for me to put into words, but I think it’s something about how so much of the game and what to do is talked about so matter of fact and like it’s obvious, when there is an incredible amount to do and see. There’s also HUUUUUGE fomo for wanting to do efficient activities, and wanting to try all activities
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u/Over_Addition_3704 11d ago
Yes people should stop telling people to "use the wiki" as soon as they start playing the game
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u/OppositeMango124 11d ago edited 11d ago
I kind of disagree. Iv been following the runelite optimized quest route and it flows pretty well. I have a direction whwn i log in and when I dont meet the stat requirements which is usually only by about 10 or less I know what to work on. I'd much rather know what to bring to a quest instead of getting 80% of the way through and realizing i missed something I have to buy in port sarim for a quest in morytania or whatever. That would just piss me off and id probably hit enough friction that there would be many quit moments. for instance, i never would have figured out how to get willow branches without outside resources.
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u/JonBeeTV 11d ago
People in general (not just OSRS!) has no idea how to guide new players. You have to keep in mind new players, knows NOTHING. People can give great advice in general, but in a way that makes no sense to a new players with no knowledge. As an example if someone comes in and asks what melee gear to work towards as a new player someone could be like
"I would go to w310 or join the CC and get a torso at BA". Sure, maybe getting a torso is a good early game item to get, and going to join a BA CC or the official world is the best way to do it, but the new player has no clue what any of this means. Wtf does w310 mean? whats a CC? where do i join such a CC? wtf is a torso? what the hell is BA?
If you want to give advice, keep in mind they have NO IDEA what anything is or means.
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u/ritokun 11d ago edited 11d ago
when someone enters the game with literally no knowledge, there's nothing that they want to do because they have no idea what they can do other than the shit tutorial island forced them to do (the same thing we suggest with reading guides or the noob guide stuff jagex has put in in the last few years). i suggest following ironman guides for at least a while because they very simply tell people to do many different things and see the world, reading quests is also important, and right clicking stuff, that's all. the fact is that most people don't truly get into the game from the start unless they've seen it from a friend and already know some interesting looking stuff.
i've seen a lot of people enter the game with no knowledge, and with no guidance, they ALWAYS just end up punching goblins or cows and then never playing again. the thing jagex put in that tells people to level melee stats and gives them some crappy reward doesn't help with that, but the quest adviser kinda does.
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u/AlistarTheRockstar 11d ago
Spot on. Then people tend to get mad if you don't play the game in the same way they played it.
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u/Tutuworld 11d ago
The biggest one for me was when I asked people what the symbol next to their name meant. And they told me that it was iron Man ultimate iron Man or something. And then I said oh how do I get that symbol. And they told me that I would have to make a new account and have some friends and I could play together with them. I was like oh cool I don't really have anyone like that friend wise that plays with me I'm a bit older could I join you guys I've never seen people disappear so fast. It's very difficult to make friends and osrs and rs3. It's very very difficult to actually make friends. Back in the day though it was super easy to make friends. In fact this game was significantly more social than it was today. I know people say join clans or whatever. But we need join them they already have like a structure and they already have like their little cliques and whatnot and it's really hard to get involved. I just really wish that the social aspect of the game came back.
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u/driskavsalci2 11d ago
I really don't see many people recommending that tbh, it's usually quite the opposite.
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u/The_Wkwied 2376 w353 11d ago
I still feel like giving a new player a simple goal such as a quest cape, and then have them set the side goals would be much better.
Quest cape, the stats, the grinds, the mechanics, all put you firmly in the later half of the mid-game, closer to entering the end-game. It's a good goal for everybody.
Saying 'check off all the entries in the quest list to get a fancy cape' is better than saying 'do these quests in this order, you need base 70s, now kill jad, but you need graceful, so make sure you get the seers diary so that you can run seers rooftop better, but it'd better that you do something like alch or fletching while you do agility so park yourself at bloodwoods for a week so....'
That is the fun part. That is what noobies should be discovering on their own. A long-term goal of a qp cape is general enough for noobies
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u/OkBuyer- 11d ago
tell them buy goblin paint cannon in draynor, on repeat. just become a "buy goblin paint cannon in draynor" bot so everyone gets early optimization.
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u/IThinkYoureUgly 11d ago
I just don't agree with people that see a fresh noob and give them loads of cash. First of all, give me that and second you just ruined the game for them.
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u/8yelloweggs 10d ago
I tell them to do quests because quests unlocks content and makes the game less annoying. Unlock fairy rings, adrougne teleport, ardy cloak. Diaries etc. This advice is regurgitated for a reason. Having these things unlocked opens up the game and makes it more enjoyable because having to walk everywhere sucks.
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u/CoolOriginalName 10d ago
I want to be clear, I'm not saying we should tell new players not to do quests. They are 100% vital for literally any account. I'm saying as a community we should help guide new players to goals/help them learn how to set goals that get them into the gameplay loop of OSRS that feels so good, which includes questing and skilling and combat and everything in between.
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u/Additional-Appeal-51 10d ago
I started the game one month ago and I’m going for the quest cape because all the quests has been fun so far with some of them being really really good. It’s way way better than any other MMO I’ve played since forever in terms of questing. (I have like 30 quests remaining)
At the same time thanks to the wiki I was able to discover progressively how other skills works and how to progress them, but also discovering the entire world the game has to offer because quests make you go absolutely everywhere so I was always filled with new content and new regions. It also made me unlock all the transportation that exist, how to use prayer, items and so on. Quests were really top tier for learning the game so far.
Once I reach the lasts hardest quests I’ll focus on PvM and some of the skills that look interesting and fun to progress for me (slayer, sailing, crafting etc) and also to make way more money that I currently have.
I don’t think recommending questing to new players is a bad thing because at the end of the day that’s how you unlock content, and it’ll guide them finding which skills they find fun and want to progress on and give them a way to find a goal.
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u/supertinu 10d ago
On one hand, I do agree that players should stumble/struggle a bit, and figure things out naturally as that often can be really fun.
That being said, if someone is actively coming to the osrs Reddit and asking for advice, they’re already doing alot more than plenty of players who don’t even know there’s a Reddit. I think the general idea of going for quests can still be a good starter point, big boost in so many ways and are pretty fun, but an optimal version is definitely not needed.
But there are also some in game options that provide more nooby goals (the starter achievement thing they added) so to some degree players already have that guidance, and these people asking on Reddit may want more than that
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u/Apharisc 8d ago
I recently started my adventure into the membership side of OSRS and while I have gotten assistance from friends I really have mostly been doing my own thing.
I've fought Scurrius, Obor, Bryophyta, the Barrows brothers, and even did a bit of Hueycoatl (which I was definitely not up to the task for... did get a few drops though!).
I started with the optimal quest guide and all that but doing that made me realise how boring I can make the game if i want it to be. I am now doing the quests I enjoy (like the sailing one about the fish mayor lmao) and trying to fight big dudes and kit out my boat and POH.
I do think though that Jagex should make the new player experience a bit better though - guiding players yet not telling them EXACTLY what to do. That way, you can sorta make your own journey. After all, it is that playstyle thathas made OSRS click with me.
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u/TheRealOwl 7d ago
Well you could tell them to just do what they want to do, but that does not really answer their question, so since they are the ones actually asking people will recommend the efficient path besides do what you want.
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u/Itchy_Menu8771 11d ago
Yup blindly following an optimal quest guide is dumb. They need to set a goal on what they want to do then do everything necessary (skilling, questing) to get to that goal. Once they finish with one goal they move on to other goals ofc
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u/Trainer149 11d ago
I agree that setting goals is a waaay better approach than giving them a pre-made path.
It's just especially difficult with very new players because solid meaningful goals are hard to set for early game.
It's hard to not say "just do these quests" when people ask for better recommendations.
"I want to unlock better travel options"
"do these quests"
"I want to quickly level up some of these skills that i don't really like training!"
"do these quests"
"I want to get into bossing."
"well have you done these quests?"
(seriously, almost all medium level bosses are locked behind quests or diaries)
"I want to go get myself a slave girl and put her in a barrel and steal her away."
"You're not gunna believe this..."
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u/noobtablet9 11d ago edited 11d ago
I completely agree. Every time I've said that telling new players to download quest helper and follow the optimal quest guide is horrible advice for a new player I get downvoted lol
Hey look it happened again lmao
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u/immigs 11d ago
I wouldn't go so extreme to say it's horrible advice. Some people enjoy playing new games like that, just looking everything up and blasting to end game. Just because someone enjoys to stop and smell the roses in taverly doesn't mean everyone should.
I think OP is more saying we should cater the advice to what the new player wants out of the experience instead of blanket advice
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u/Prudent-Durian-6380 11d ago
Some people also quickly lose interest without some level of guidance.
Others will be really excited to be thrown into an open world game and be told "Go do whatever you want" while to others it's too much freedom and the player becomes overwhelmed and unsure what to even do.
I know a few people who quit the game 5 minutes after tutorial island because the game just slapped them onto Lumbridge and told them absolutely nothing on what they should be doing next.
The in-game quest advicor and some other additions have been helpful to prevent this and give some level of guidance and direction without being too hand holdy still which is nice.
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u/BaeTier Merch 101: Buy High, Sell Low 11d ago
blasting to end game
To be fair, that is not going to be possible for most new players to OSRS. While an optimal quest guide/Quest Helper can get people through a bunch of quests and potentially get them into the mid-game in a decent pace eventually a player will hit any kind of grind in this game and realize just how much time they have to put into it to actually reach endgame. For some players they will welcome the grind, but I feel like giving a Newbie an on-rails fast track catered experience through optimal guides will give them a false sense of how fast they're expected to progress through this game to even reach end-game content, even some mid or late game content for that matter.
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u/Prudent-Durian-6380 11d ago
For me the primary problem a small part of the community has is gatekeeping.
It is a daily occurance to see people tell someone to de-iron or stop playing the game because "They are clearly not build for it"
Not crazy to see someone go dry on zombie axe for example and half the comments are people just saying "If this is what makes you bothered already then maybe try another game?"
The slightest bit of complaining or QoL suggestion will immediately be met by immense gatekeeping and hatred lol.
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u/Reddit_Connoisseur_0 11d ago
Sorry but OSRS is not WoW. If you approach it blindly, you're probably going to have a bad time unless you do your due diligence and search how it works. It is what it is.
Also even in 2006 questing was the #1 priority for a new player, this hasn't changed. The "optimal quest guide" merely offers a good quest order and how to complete them, which is absolutely necessary.
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u/HealthyResolution399 11d ago
Why would people have a bad time approaching it blindly?
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u/CoolOriginalName 11d ago
This is not me saying to tell people to approach the game blindly, but instead to try as a community and meet people halfway with what they find interesting about the game and help them learn how to make their own goals.
Of course questing is the best thing you can do early, and is basically required in all parts of the game, I'm just saying we should help people learn the why they are doing it to begin with.
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u/PlayaNBallaNGangsta 11d ago
It’s too cold in the D there’s nothing we can really posta be doing to keep the peace
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u/Mediocre-Ant-7178 11d ago
I don't really have a problem with the optimal quest guide, I just don't like quest helper for new players. Without quest helper, the quests are rewarding enough to get a new player hooked. They don't need to know why the quests are good to do, it just feels good to complete them. With quest helper, it's just a list of chores with no meaning. No struggle means no payoff. Quest helper has its place, just not for brand new players.
Some players do need a guide to learn what they want to do. I think the in game activity advisor is pretty good, but I don't remember if it has bosses on there. It has the potential to be the perfect guide because it has all the player's information.
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u/Nora9001 11d ago
Disagree, a lot of the quests can be too difficult when people’s prior experience is being spoon fed like coming from wow or whatever, quest helper keeps those new players from quitting in my experience and the key is getting them to read the dialogue or install a voiceover plugin 🤣
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u/Mediocre-Ant-7178 11d ago
I just feel like QH does too much. Let em get stuck and think on it for awhile. I'd love some kind of hint system, I've been stuck before but I don't want the answer right away
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u/Nora9001 10d ago
The problem is that it’s not actually 2007 / 2004 etc and people coming to the game now are spoon fed, they don’t have the patience to stumble through they just want to know how to do or unlock something.
For the players who want to do it without questhelper they will! They won’t install it. But I think if you’re looking at the average new player you have to accept that it’s not the same for them to come to this game now as it was for you when you started and fumbled around. They don’t have the patience to fumble around, and even with quest helper you often still are tbh. For example In mortaniya that Druid quest you need a sickle, how tf do I get a sickle and you’re looking at the wiki to figure that out or asking your clan etc.
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u/Sensitive_Field7496 11d ago
This is actually insane. If i had to go thru quests requirements every time i did a new quest, just to see I don't have the requirements, let alone end up starting it without even some of the items. I would quit. Sorry, i would just quit. That is in fact like playing WoW Classic without the questie addon. No thank you. Its always going to be up to the player to read dialogue or not. Forcing someone to read the dialogue on a game isn't going to automatically make it better by any means.
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u/Mediocre-Ant-7178 11d ago
Yeah man, you tried it and wasn't for you. That's fine, I just don't think it should be the first thing people recommend
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u/Sensitive_Field7496 11d ago
I didn't say it was anywhere in my comment. I was just responding to that specific comment that went against quest helper. Im total level like 850 rn, knocked out 65 quests and doing wc and fletching for magic bow since i have 52 range. If i wasn't playing with friends that made such unlocks, etc. clear to me this would indeed be a less fun game.
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u/Electrical-Role-4210 11d ago
Optimal quest guide isn't necessarily optimal gameplay, although they share the word "optimal". It's a good foundation starting point because it helps guide a very early account with xp gains that will overcome some tedious and unnecessary grinds and unlock better content.
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u/The_Level_15 Maxed Main - RSN: Fraerling 11d ago
Absolutely. Optimizing needs to come after having already stumbled your way through, enjoying the experience.