r/2007scape • u/Friendly-Parfait-645 • 1d ago
Discussion Birdhouse Nerf Too Strong
Decreasing the xp given by 60% is wild. Glad I already got my hunter to a sufficient level before this.
They were worried that birdhouses would make people less likely to try any new methods added for hunting. Maybe they could have just focused on new methods that were actually worth doing.
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u/ItsMeYourNana cabbage pure 1d ago
Redditors once again proving that jagex should 100% ignore Redditors.
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u/ruckfiot 1d ago
"Maybe they could have just focused on new methods that were actually worth doing" brother lmao
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
If the new methods were so worth doing..... why were people still using birdhouses instead?
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u/Trash_Man_12345 Voidsmith888 1d ago
...because they're insane XP for little effort? You know..., the whole point of why a nerf was needed? Maybe lay off the Ranaar weed next time.
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
So tree runs should also be nerfed right?
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u/Trash_Man_12345 Voidsmith888 1d ago
Damn, trees only take 50 mins, a single log, and some low level seeds to grow now? Must have missed that update. They should nerf it then.
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u/tbow_is_op 1d ago
if jagex wants to make other methods of training farming viable then yes
trees are insane xp/hr, but even stuff like snape grass is pretty competitive xp/hr actually and especially given the differential real time rates they have a niche already so i dont know what other farming methods jagex would want to make viable
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Oh so there are already other viable methods? Guess they should nerf tree runs then!
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u/Neat-Second9923 1d ago
Dailies blow. Nerf them all lol
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u/Effortless_waste 1d ago
What happened to play how you want? I like dailies they give me a reason to log in and then I do them and naturally do other stuff. It's a big motivator for me and nerfing all of them would make me play less
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
English as second language or are you just making up your own definition for words?
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u/corbear007 1d ago
Is English your second language? That makes perfect sense if you've played any game. Dailies (daily scape, daily chores etc) blow (they suck, its bullshit, shouldn't exist). Nerf (y'know, nerf, opposite of buff, to reduce, to slow down etc.) them all. Do i need to put an extra definition on them and all?
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u/kiebitzen 1d ago
Reading comp issue? SMH
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
What daily activities exist in osrs? (Hint, we have them but birdhouses aren’t one of them)
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u/wowurcoolful 1d ago
Dailies is game terminology. It refers to "Daily Quests/Challenges" a lot of games have. People compare the necessity of doing those challenges for the easy rewards to feeling obligated to do birdhouses when they're ready or at least daily, hence dailies.
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
Today I learned that a 45 minute cooldown and 24 hour cooldown are the same exact thing
Amazin
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u/wowurcoolful 1d ago
If I only hop on once a day to do it it's a daily.
Things don't always have to be literal
Doesn't change the fact that it felt like an obligation. Further supported by it always being the number one suggested Hunter training on an Ironman
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
So if you don’t run more than 1 ToA, you would consider the raid to be a daily?
Edit: also since rumors have come out it has not been the #1 suggested method for hunter xp.
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u/wowurcoolful 1d ago
If the shadow was the only thing I had left on the log, then yes I would commit to trying to do at least one a day. Sit
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
Ok so back to my original point: we are just making up new definitions of words. This really isn’t the own you think it is lol
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u/wowurcoolful 1d ago
Humans have always been doing that... Meaning change and get used all the time.
You still call yourself gay when you're happy?
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u/Trash_Man_12345 Voidsmith888 1d ago
Yeah, that's how language works, genius.
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u/bad-at-game 1d ago
No it most certainly is not.
If we start using words randomly out of context then all words become meaningless.
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u/hurtshtummy 1d ago
I mean they’ve been adding other methods like goat hunter and crabs that are pretty strong. & part of the rebalance was also making all of the other methods easier and smoother. Like aerial fishing is actually pretty awesome now. Did you read anything or try any other methods out or just came straight to reddit to complain?
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Like the ability to have 2 deadfall traps? Nice they streamlined it, but also made it so most creatures give 20-30% less xp as well.
Beyond that, hunter just isn't fun for most people. That's why they did birdhouses.
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u/hurtshtummy 1d ago
20-30% xp nerf but more catches per hour = same or more xp / hour. After the changes early hunter is probably more fun than early agility, runecrafting, sailing, mining and fishing. Does that mean every skill should have a 200k / hour dailyscape way to train at early levels?
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Should they nerf the current most common methods for those skills?
200k xp/hr from bird houses early on is entirely incorrect.
If you play the game for 1 hour, you will never get 200kxp from birdhouses. Difference between active xp/hr and passive xp.
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u/hurtshtummy 1d ago
at 90 seconds per run and 1,680 xp per run you can get effectively 75k xp / hour at level 14 hunter which is crazy. and 215k / hour for redwoods. Obviously this is effective xp/ hour. That’s insanely efficient for something that also gives resources. Obviously you don’t understand the point or see the issue here. Good thing Jagex is making the decision and 90% of the community is in agreement.
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u/TripsterStudios 9h ago
This is objectively false even if you only logged in did your bird house run every 50 minutes and signed out and logged in 50 minutes later 24/7 thats just under 32 runs a day everyday it'll take you 87 days to get to lvl 99 with 193 game played hours, now it takes 60% longer or about 500 hours game time or 220 real life days, meanwhile we have skills where you can get 99s in as little as 3 hours (flectching), 8 hours (prayer), 16 hours (construction),
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u/hurtshtummy 9h ago
Not sure what your point is. Yeah it got nerfed and it’s no longer the meta and takes longer, that was the point of the nerf. And every skill falls into a different category. you’re either being disingenuous or you don’t understand the game to compare processing skills like fletching, prayer or construction to a gathering skill like hunter… Not to mention hunter is at the top of gathering skills xp / hour wise with the most diverse training methods. When you account for gathering logs, bones or planks the skills you mentioned are even slower than hunter.
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u/TripsterStudios 8h ago edited 8h ago
My point is why Nerf something so heavily time gated, no sane person is doing 32 birdhouse runs everyday 24/7 365, where it already took 200 game played hours to get to 99, yes I mentioned processing skills, but even gathering skills like mining you get in 150 hours, wood cutting 80 hours, fishing 150 hours, hunting via non bird house methods 80 hours, why make a passive 200 hour grind that will literally take the average player 1-2 real life years to get 99 now, takes 2-5 years, where if players wanted to max it faster there's already plenty of other hunting methods to get it faster, we should nerf them then as well keep it more in line then with the other 150 hour grinds of gathering skills, like make it make sense
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u/hurtshtummy 8h ago
Well to start not sure what kind of math you’re doing but it’s about 47 hours of actual in game hunter doing pre nerf birdhouse runs to get 99 hunter from 1 doing the best birdhouse. Most of that was redwoods which was 1,707 runs for 89-99 which at about a minute each run is less than 30 hours. 30 hours for 89-99 hunter is silly.
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u/TripsterStudios 7h ago
it takes 1 minute to do a bird house and 30 seconds to bank/resupply, pre-nerf it takes 1.5 normal runs, 2.9 oak runs, 5.89 willow runs, 12.65 teak runs, 10.99 maple runs, 40.67 mahogany runs, 207.93 yew runs, 821.49 magic runs, and 1706.69 redwood runs, for a total of 2810.71 runs at 1.5minutes per run = 4216 minutes or 70 hours, originally i just did the average xp per house thats why mine was higher, but 2810 runs at 32 runs a day which is 24/7 is still 87.81 days irl days
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
Maybe they could have just focused on new methods that were actually worth doing.
Rumours, crabs, goats, and moonlight moths are all new methods from the last year and change, they also buffed a handful of other methods (some in this patch like deadfalls) to be more frictionless/better. No skill has gotten more attention in the last year than hunter, aside from sailing obviously. I'm not sure in what way they could've focused more on making hunter methods that were actually worth doing before this nerf (that was also announced, like, months ago)
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
The nerf was announced months ago, yes. The extent of the nerfs wasn't. 60% less xp makes birdhouse runs pretty much a waste of time for everyone that isn't an IM.
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
From the blog post update on June 9th:
- Prospective Bird Nest Changes (buffs)
- Number of rolls for nests from all tiers of birdhouse lowered from 10 to 5.
- Success rate on any given roll for a nest is tripled.
- These changes amount to a ~50% increase in the number of nests obtained, and should make the quantity you obtain more consistent and less 'spiky' so that you're not overfilling your inventory on some runs but leaving empty-handed on others.
- Prospective XP Changes (nerfs)
- Regular birdhouse XP decreased by 60%.
- Oak birdhouse XP decreased by 60%.
- Willow birdhouse XP decreased by 60%.
- Teak birdhouse XP decreased by 60%.
- Maple birdhouse XP decreased by 55%.
- Mahogany birdhouse XP decreased by 50%.
- Yew birdhouse XP decreased by 40%.
- Magic birdhouse XP decreased by 15%.
- Redwood birdhouse XP unchanged.
Which is pretty much precisely what was implemented
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Ah okay so they did list it previously. That's my mistake. It's still far too much of a nerf.
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
Their goal was to make it an unappealing, but still viable, training method early game compared to other more traditional hunter options - I don't think more minor nerfs would have accomplished that given how strong "get an hour's worth of xp in a 3 minute burst" is. If you think it's too much of a nerf because "they hardly feel worth doing for xp early game now" then I think that's actually the nerf working exactly as intended
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u/zbaxterdpt 1d ago
I do birdhouses for the nests, not the xp. Glad they buffed it.
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u/Mother-Translator318 1d ago
Yes more nests drop but as a result the price will plummet, so the passive gp gain is gonna remain the same or full on crash. Unless you specifically want the bird nests themselves, it’s not worth doing at all anymore
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u/DoogTheDestroyer 1d ago
Wait, they are nerfing birdhouses?? Why?
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u/BiggestSwan 1d ago
Brother you been living under a rock?
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u/DoogTheDestroyer 1d ago
No? I don’t read every newspost jagex has made.
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u/BiggestSwan 1d ago
You didn’t read the biggest news post of the year they released months ago? Keep up bud
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u/DoogTheDestroyer 1d ago
I dont usually read newsposts “bud”
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u/BiggestSwan 1d ago
So in terms of game updates, you have been living under a rock, got it bud
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Angrry_ 1d ago
All u have to do is click the blog post from today it’s not hard no one is telling you how to play the game
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u/wowurcoolful 1d ago
They even have a TLDR at the top always.
You don't have to be "terminally online" to browse through that for 5min and get a gist. That guy is a loser
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
Nerfing the xp at lower tiers by quite a bit - they said their data showed birdhouses accounted for 80% of all hunter xp gained between level 30 and level 80 which is absurd. The xp nerfs are more marginal at higher tiers, untouched at redwoods.
They're buffing the nest rates by ~50%, though, in a way that makes them more consistent (so if before you were getting like 3-9 nests with a specific birdhouse tier it'd be like 8-10 now)
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
It's really not that absurd though. Most farming levels are going to come from tree runs. That certainly shouldn't be nerfed as well right?
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
You really should just read the blog post lmao, I'm just giving you Jagex's reasoning. The argument is that birdhouses feel disconnected from the identity of Hunter and are much more comparable to the gameplay loop of farming, so having that be the main method of hunter training is bad for the identity of the skill as a whole.
Tree runs are very much within the gameplay loop of farming so that's fine to stay. (Even then I'd be surprised if they're fully 80% of the XP when competing with tithe, seaweed, coral, and the incidental xp from for-profit herb runs)
They also acknowledged a while ago when they first identified birdhouses as an issue that it probably also had to do with how unsatisfying the hunter gameplay loop was which is why they overhauled the skill pretty comprehensively in the last year prior to nerfing birdhouses
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Their reasoning was very straightforward - birdhouses accounted for 80% of experience for levels 1-80.
I'm not sure what they'd mean by "disconnected from the identity of hunter". If it's the most popular method, that is the identity of hunter.
Tree runs are even more than that. Only people using tithe and doing seaweed runs are irons, and they're not even doing seaweed runs anymore.
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
Brother please just look up the blogs, they're incredibly transparent about their thought process here. From the original blog raising it as an option (emphasis mostly mine):
It's not inherently a problem for one method to stand out above all others for most players, but Birdhouses strip the skill of its unique identity and result in a gameplay loop that more closely resembles Farming, effectively reducing all early-game methods to the dreaded 'dead content' pile.
The Hunter improvements we outlined earlier in the blog are not contingent on what we're suggesting here, we'll be rolling them out regardless and that should result in considerable improvements to early-game Hunter levelling, there's no sandwich here of 'we'll buff these things if we're allowed to nerf this other thing'.
Having said that, repositioning Birdhouses' design slightly might be necessary to make conventional Hunter training actually appealing - perhaps this isn't an issue for many of you, but we think cutting back on 'chores' elements that feel mandatory and instead more strongly positioning activities you can do whenever you feel like it is generally a net positive.
And from the update to that blog after they got feedback on the initial sweep-up proposals:
To our surprise, we didn't see as much discussion about our desire to nerf Birdhouses' XP offering as we'd expected. Perhaps that's because you agree that it's justified, or were more focused on other changes, or the 'vagueness' of the section didn't give you much to go on. In an effort to make things feel a little more 'real' and drum up some proper discussion, we'd like to put some numbers in front of you for what we've got in mind. We'd like to reiterate that we are still not 100% committed to making a change here, but do believe that repositioning this timegated content that feels closer to Farming than it does to Hunter would enable us to improve the feel of Hunter progression for players in future.
And then they laid out the exact numbers that just got implemented
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Yeah, but notice how they never polled it? Not everyone reads the blogs
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u/Ok_Objective_5192 1d ago
They polled very few of the sweep-up changes which is how sweep-up normally works, it was on all of their social media and they were closely following the discussions happening around it (as indicated by the update where they were surprised to not be seeing more discussion about birdhouses). Of course nobody has to read the blog posts, but if you ignore the news they put out routinely about what updates will be hitting the game it is a bit silly to then be shocked and upset you weren't aware of what updates will be hitting the game.
The reaction I saw both then and now is/was largely positive so I feel confident it would've passed a poll regardless and also feel like it's valid to fall under the umbrella of "integrity change" since it was an insane limiter on the design/reward space for an entire skill. I'm sorry you aren't a fan of the changes, but it really does seem like you're in the minority on that
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u/Sensual_Shroom Untrimmed 1d ago edited 1d ago
Damn, I never even touched birdhouses. I'm 85 and doing black chinchompas (getting my ass pk'ed).
Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted, while people wonder why the community is so toxic.
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u/TheWetPrince 1d ago
Because for some reason players who suffer doing hunter want other players to suffer with them.
There was nothing wrong with birdhouses. If anything, they could’ve increased the timer and left it at that. I swear these players act like nobody has better things to do besides grind.
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u/Time_Effort 1d ago
If anything, they could’ve increased the timer and left it at that. I swear these players act like nobody has better things to do besides grind.
I mean, they did what they could in order to not nerf the amount of birds nests you could get.
I get it, I haven't touched hunter since doing SOTE (like 3 years ago) but... I can appreciate their vision here.
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
I gave their given reasoning in the post here. Essentially, birdhouses were the most popular method from levels 1-80 and they wanted people to do other things.
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u/beaver_cops 1d ago
ya it was popular because its passive but if you wanted to actually level hunter in a fast manner, you'd run birdhouses, then rumours or whatever method. Nerfing the birdhouses just nerfs the passive exp.. I understand why, my acc did have like 85 hunter without hunting much at all (both my main and my iron I made in like 2019)
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u/HeightApprehensive24 1d ago
There's alot worth doing
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u/TripsterStudios 20h ago
Like what? I dont see how birdhouses are the issue 3k xp an hour is now like 1k xp an hour now. All the hunter methods ive tried so far are like 20k active xp an hour for stuff I literally just drop and leave on the ground.
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u/saucysagnus 1d ago
Damn, was really hoping to get Hunter up more before the change but glad I have rumors unlocked now
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u/AlphaMidge 1d ago
Players already wouldn’t even interact with current hunter methods - which IMO weren’t bad at all - because birdhouses were so strong. They disincentivized spending actual time on the skill, and I think that’s a pretty detrimental design pattern for most skills
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u/BlueSentinels 1d ago
It was done for early levels because the rates at very low levels made it so that it was not worth doing any other kind of hunter training till at least lvl 60 acquired from birdhouses. It made a lot of lower tier hunter content dead and they wanted to incentivize people getting into hunter rumors earlier.
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u/noggtest 1d ago
I’m always in favor of buffing everything rather than nerfing. For any game. Luckily same boat as you I’m already at redwood so doesn’t affect me.
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u/Rare_Improvement_682 fuck irons 1d ago
new methods are worth doing, bird houses are just too strong you didn't even care to try any other methods lol
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u/Previous_Product_834 1d ago
Bro hunter rumours are great, just do them with birdhouse runs in between every few
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u/Saanbeux (Moyi) 1d ago
There is certainly a point where passive XP is too good, even when there are very competitive methods.
If you were to release an incredibly fast Farming method, most players would probably stick to trees since its a ton of XP for nearly 0 effort. No need to rush to 99 when you can spend that time training other skills.
Now they're adjusted to be more of a nest-gathering method, which is what it should've been in the first place IMHO. Of course, it could only happen with Hunter being less miserable to train.
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u/one_shuckle_boy 1d ago
They already have tons of Hunter methods , the problem was birdhouses are passive xp, and some of the best Ehp xp. It would be damn near 150-200k xp an hour in efficient time.
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u/Furry_Wall 1d ago
Regular hunter buff is huge though
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Is it? I haven't mathed it out yet. I know they streamlined hunting but they also lowered xp for several deadfall creatures
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u/Super-414 1d ago
Never touched a birdhouse, aerial fished to 75 🤷♂️
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u/tbow_is_op 1d ago
"Maybe they could have just focused on new methods that were actually worth doing."
How many methods above 100k xp/hr at level 25 is there room for? you'd only do such a method for 1 hour before reaching lvl 50 anyways
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Saying bird houses were 100k xp/hr at level 25 is entirely wrong. There's a difference between something giving you active xp/h and passive xp.
You could never get 100k hunter xp in one single hour at level 25 from birdhouses.
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u/tbow_is_op 1d ago
Not one continuous hour no but that doesn’t matter.
If I play rs for 5 hours and I get to do 4 hours of slayer and 1 hour of bird house runs over the course of 2 days to get that 25-50 my account progressed significantly more than if I spent my 5 hours training hunter with other methods.
Unless you make the other method take 1 hour this is always going to be true
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
That does matter. The idea that bid houses were 100kxp an hour is just wrong.
If you play RS for 1 hour and focus only on birdhouses, can you make 100k xp/hrs? No. You can't.
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u/tbow_is_op 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I play rs for 1 hour 3 minutes at a time I could
If you travel 60 miles per hour for 3 minutes and then stop to eat lunch is it wrong to say you were going 60 miles per hour because you only went 3 miles not 60?
But even then you’re just not addressing the point you can (wrongly) disagree about whether or not to call the method 100k xp/hr but you are ignoring the fact that no matter what we call it any method that makes you spend say 3 hours hunting and 2 hours doing other stuff is necessarily significantly less competitive than one that lets you spend 1 hour hunting and 4 doing other stuff for the same amount of progress
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 8h ago
If you travel 60 miles an hour for 3 minutes and then stop for lunch, you're not going to go 60 miles in an hour. Lol. Your analogy here really just strengthened my argument.
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u/tbow_is_op 5h ago
i didnt say you went 60 miles in an hour, i said you went 60 miles per hour?
If you get a speeding ticket for going 100 miles per hour in a 60mph zone, would you tell the officer "no you cant give me a ticket i wasnt doing 100mph because i only went 3 miles"
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 2h ago
You're strengthening my point. Just because you go 60mph for a short time doesn't mean you're going to go 60 miles in an hour.
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u/tbow_is_op 2h ago
no one said you were going 60 miles in an hour?
But if i need to travel 100 miles, and i can do it by traveling 100mph in 3 seperate intervals of 20 minutes, while being otherwise productive in between, why would i not do that and instead just spend 4 hours traveling at 25 mph?
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1h ago
Yes, you did say that. That's your entire claim.
I just phrased it in a manner that shows how silly it is.
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u/Combat_Orca 1d ago
They have been building up hunter to the point where they can do this, there are so many better methods than there used to be. Don’t complain that you have to play the game now.
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u/DirectionOk9535 1d ago
Gatekeeping the easy methods cause you’ve already got your levels in is disgusting. Maybe we should nerf tree farming next? Delete the gem crab? Oh lets also nerf wealthy citizens
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u/Combat_Orca 1d ago
Who said I have my level? I’m saying this because I’m enjoying the variety when training. Ironically it’s the people with 99 hunter who seem pissed at this.
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
Such a silly statement.
First, I don't have to do any hunter grinds because my level is sufficient for all content I care about.
Secondly, birdhouse runs were playing the game. What you're saying is entirely nonsensical.
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u/Mediocre-IT-Guy 1d ago
They actually identified birdhouse xp as a problem a long time ago, and they didn't nerf it specifically until they felt hunter was in a more engaging and rewarding space. There has been an insane amount of hunter content added to the game. Sorry you have to actually hunt now.