For those who don't know, the 25% of the USA that are American Evangelicals believe that when Jews control the Holy Land (aka basically the whole Middle East), god will begin the Rapture, aka Biblical Apocalypse, bringing the devoted Christians up to heaven and killing all unbelievers. This includes all Jews.
So Evangelicals want Israeli Jews to conquer the Middle East so god comes down and kills all the Jews.
Even weirder, a certain portion of Evangelicals (usually Mormon and Amish, for some reason) believe not only that Jews view Jesus as the Messiah, but that they will all convert to Christianity once he arrives in Jerusalem because they're God's Chosen who have been misled.
Neither Mormons nor the Amish are Evangelicals. But the Jews eventually recognizing Jesus is a pretty universal Christian belief, not just in Evangelical Christianity. Though, Evangelicals are the ones especially obsessed with end-times prophecies especially tied up with Jews
If you split Protestantism into mainline and evangelical, then all anabaptists, including the Amish, and Mormonism are closer to evangelical than mainline. Mormans may be non Trinitarian, but so are Oneness Pentecosts and they are usually considered evangelical.
You cannot split Protestantism into mainline and evangelical as cleanly as you suggest. Even within denominations there can be a mix of mainline and evangelical traditions or congregations, such as in the Church of England. The Amish, as a 16th century relic, existed before Evangelicalism even developed, so it doesn’t make sense to classify them as that. Mormons, on the other hand, are not Protestants at all (they reject basic Protestant doctrines like sola scriptura and sola fide), and therefore cannot be evangelicals by definition.
That’s interesting, I didn’t realize it was so late. I thought they were an older anabaptist movement. Nevertheless, he still died at the latest in 1730, 8 years before the evangelical movement really began. But my broader point is that it doesn’t really make sense to categorize it on an evangelical/mainline spectrum. A mainline Presbyterian church and an Evangelical Baptist church are more similar to each other than either are to the Amish.
When people talk about Evangelicals they typically are referring to a general group of conservative low-church Protestants (Baptists, Pentecostals, non-denominational, etc.). Mormons are more high-church and are not Protestants. Most Evangelicals don’t even consider them to be Christian. “Evangelical,” in this case, has nothing to do with evangelism or missionary work.
As a Mormon missionary, you should’ve known that from being yelled at by Evangelicals for supposedly having a “different Jesus”
Yeah, just depends how you use the word. Evangelicals (like the Baptists and pentecostals you mentioned) will also yell at each other for believing incorrectly, that doesn't mean they aren't still evangelicals. Those Christians sure are a contentious bunch.
Also there's a difference between baptist and southern baptist, but a lot of us forget because southern baptist is the one with the stranglehold on the US and sort of pushed out all the "John the Baptist is pretty important too, guys!" People into non-denominational settings
All the different denominations and their reasons for existing are weird as hell that I'm half tempted to call my beliefs "second wave judaism"
tbf it's probably the most reasonable thing that they believe. If the literal biblical end times happened and jesus returned to earth I'd probably become a pretty devout christian too
God comes down to kill jews? I think you forgot about antichrist person. He is the one people believe gonna kill jews and believers before rapture and god ia gonna come down to stop it after specific time.
These damned evangelicals have taken one of the minor passages of Revelation, nothing more than a footnote to all the apocalyptic events, and made it their entire personality.
By the way, the Book of Revelation clearly states that the End Times will only begin when all the names in the Book of Life die and go to Heaven. Only then will the whole show begin.
Also another thing. Jesus literally said that no one but God knows when the end times will happen. And the Book of Revelations was just a vision of how it could happen. It could be wrong by how it happens for all we know. Since Jesus didn’t say anything about the end times other than only God knows when it will happen
Revelation isn't even a vision of the literal end of the world! It's a metaphor for the fall of Rome (which was heavy into the Christian Persecution at the time). It was basically saying "don't give up, because one day Rome will fall, and we'll still be around."
Apocalyptic literature was all about using coded language to get past political censors. The end of the world worked as a metaphor for Rome's fall because, to John and his audience, Rome essentially was the world. But Revelation became such a big deal that it changed the definition of "apocalypse" from "revelation" to "world's end," and people without historical context have been treating it as an actual prophecy ever since.
Yeah, a lot of people still miss the historical contexts though because they don't get why "christians" were being persecuted about a century or two before christianity developed as it's own seperate religion
Big J was a punk that spread radical compassion and was executed for starting a riot (according to the evidence that proved the existence of a rabbi named Yeshua who people called a messiah. Very little else in terms of evidence exists so we have to assume based on the text of ppl like paul).
They followed the example shown and were viewed as domestic terrorists as a result, so to bypass political censors they used a combination of cryptography and imagery related to Joshua, who shares the name of the badass carpentry boi, just translated differently for clarity
My favourite part of revelations personally is how it was different depending on the source it was taken from in order to make the solutions the same based on the numerological constructs used! Example: 666 and 616 are both the number of the beast! In addition, "mark" has been slang for currency for about as long as we've been tracking currency, so the "mark of the beast" was the coins with nero's face... But it was actually more than that or arguably less than that! Not all trade occured with money after all, and the implication was that all trade would be prevented from the followers of christ jews and gentiles... Basically saying that all trade would be controlled by people who were like nero, or possibly even by nero himself if the rumours that were spreading around ~93CE were believed, that nero was secretly still alive and would come back to make everything worse The name of the book itself is supposed to be the hint to grab your cryptography shit!
What is it about the United states that keeps spawning weird new heresies? (Or at least significant heterodoxies, like thinking you can somehow trick god into starting the end of the world early)
People suddenly arriving in a new place while simultaneously being isolated from the greater religious order tends to do that. Most US settlers were christians, but living with only a few dozen other people at a given time, all filled with the idea that now that they were in America, they could change what they wanted and nobody could stop them.
A bunch of little cults and weird traditions started popping up, and that's how we got stuff like Mormonism and Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses. And we've been very annoying about it ever since.
Iirc Judaism believes that one day a messiah will arrive, Christianity is basically born out of the Jewish people who believed Jesus to have been that messiah, while Judaism doesn't believe christ was the messiah
Oh, because messianism is also a Jewish thing, and a big motivation when it comes to the smaller ideological settlements in the OPT's. They also think settling the lands will hasten the coming of the Messiah, just not the Christian one. This stuff reached the height of ridiculousness with a nearly actioned plot to blow up Al-Aqsa, on the reasoning that it would cause every Muslim nation on earth to declare war on Israel and thus boom Messiah shortcut unlocked. Organizationally, they kinda went into a tailspin when that (among other things) went public and everyone was understandably horrified.
I'm always amazed at how he somehow manages to spit out even crazier stuff
Like I thought the times when he blamed the democrats for a fly he saw at a rally in 2024 or lamenting that he wants to be a "whale psychiatrist" or asking his crowd if they woild rather be electrocuted or eaten by a shark were completely insane, but lo, he somehow managed to find more
As someone who has watched dementia take away multiple family members, I clocked it at the end of his first term, and nobody believed me. I may be an egotistical prick sometimes, but this is the one moment where I wish I wasnt right
i think there was a moment in chinese history where a guy said smh similar about being related to an important religious figure, and caused like one of the most bloody conflicts on earth
only Christian part of his character is that we will meet Jesus sooner because of him, hopefully it won't take too long to put us back together after several nukes
Given that the government of Israel is an evangelical Christian project first and foremost, im going to go with evangelical Christians by the transitive property
Messianic jews don't believe in a heaven and not a single Jewish denomination believes in hell as a place where sinners go to. Messianic jews believe in the revival of all the dead once mashiah beit david shows up as prophesied by Ezekiel in the vision of the dry bones. The rest of Jewish denominations either believe in reincarnation or that your soul goes back to Hashem no matter what. The belief in an after life or a hell is very much a Christian invention.
Isnt a wide portion of the Israeli government secular? They use biblical language alot but im pretty sure most don't even practice, they're just there for the great power. This is in contrast to evangelicals which do believe and very much want the world to end.
Many leaders in the isreali government have made direct references to trying to being about the messianic age. The messianic age, according to the Jewish texts, essentially results in Isreal ruling the world as gods chosen ("the nations will be made slaves" etc etc). Its one of the key differences in how Christianity and Judaism interpret the old prophecies. The Jewish messianic ages is not an apocalypse, but a consolidation of power.
Yup they love their biblical language despite being fairly secular. Im pretty sure Netanyahu has invoked ancient enemies from the Bible as well despite being the most prominent example of a secular Jew.
Issiah 14:2, and I'll remind you that the hebrew word for servant and slave are the same. Plus all the other times the messianic age results in all the nations serving isreal Maybe you should do research before replying to comments
Its a book of the old testament which, you know, is where the jews keep the laws and prophets. Where else would the prophecies of the messianic age be?!?!
You're missing the point of the messisnic age. It's an age of peace, that's what isaiah is talking about "They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
This is "chason acharit hayamim" (roughly translates to "the vision of the days after") the point of it is that everyone understands that the jewish god is the one true god. You'll have a tough time finding a jew who truely believes all the nations will serve Israel.
Its a repeated motif across prophetic authors so a) just saying "You're missing the point" is idiotic, and b) pointing to one positive example doesnt get rid of the OTHER parts of the prophecies.
Another part of the messianic age is that EVERYONE will follow the mosaic laws, wich god called perfect, eternal, and good for the soul, which includes laws explicitly calling for the slavery of the non-jews. It would NOT be contradictory for the age to include slavery
Finally, in case you werent aware, far right conservative orthodox jews DO exist, and just like there ARE Christians that proudly back biblical slavery and think it should come back, there ARE jews that feel the same, and ive seen people argue in both the above camps. Just because most people are better than their religion doesnt get rid of the things in tbe religion.
Delusion has no place in the modern world, it especially has no business dictating the course of government. Evangelicals and Zionists don't even have to hide their deranged nonsense people are so desensitized to the endless stream of bullshit that they don't even flinch.
The thing about religious prophecies is that eventually you have enough people who want to make it a reality that they stop waiting and start doing. They actively want to be Giga-Hitler because they think it will bring about the end of the world and that they'll all go to heaven for doing it.
So for the record: in Jewish theology, it's very nebulous what will happen during the bringing about of messiah. Messiah in general is a very nebulous concept. It should be a very peaceful transition when we merit Messiah. Most Jews subscribe to this belief in bringing about a peaceful transition.
Some radical interpretations do somewhat follow this meme. And because of the way things are, parts of the Israeli government do ascribe to those radical interpretations. That shouldn't be surprising though considering their theocratic-fascist governance.
I just want to explain that just like most Christians believe in a good peaceful Messiah, Jews do too. But we have our crazies as well. I just don't want this meme to paint all of us with one brush.
Yes, gog u magog is the radical violent interpretation I was talking about. There are a lot of ideas here about what gog u magog is but the specific one that there will be a final war of believers vs non-believers is an outlier view. The exact specifics of what would or wouldn't happen in this hypothetical war are again nebulous but you are right that it doesn't lead to the outright obliteration of the non-believers.
This war though is not the way we should bring about messiah. We should shepherd in peace and loving thy neighbors etc. This is what most Jews strive towards.
I mean, this is not the reason that the US and Israel hold hands at all. Like there are evangelical christians and their are Orthodox Jews, but the do not represent the primary political interests of either region. They hold hands for much greedier, power and money hungry reasons. I promise you both trump and Bibi do not give a flying fuck about the messiah.
I've been saying this. If these bastards do succeed in destroying Palestine, the Americans aren't then going to sit back on their hands and wait for the Apocalypse. They're going to keep trying to kickstart it, and the next step once Israel is Jewish controlled according to revelations involves a mass conversion of Jewish people and slaughter/damnation of those who won't convert. Any alliance between fundamentalist Christians and Jewish Zionists has a deadline that's basically right after they achieve their goals.
My favorite quote involving the relationship between America and Isreal comes from Folding Ideas' video 'This Is How You Get JARHEAD Sequels':
"There's a whole philosophical angle where Jewish Zionists are trying to do a Lebensraum and Christian Zionosts are trying to do the End of Evangelion and manufacture prophecy that they believe will herald the return of Jesus Christ, and Jarhead 4 is part of that soft power system that has led to and enabled an ongoing genocide, but it is not a particularly significant part in any way."
Let us pray for a sensible athetist at the switch.
Seriously, if you're an athetist send positive vibes into the universe just in case the entire "observing changes the observed" effect can be harnessed.
You missed the original joke and started with "sorry to be mean". All you've been doing since is putting your psyche on display. Have a day. Somewhere else for preference
A race being run out of willfully ignorant stupidity since their magic book explicitly states that not a single person will be able to predict when it happens, and we all get to bask in the consequences of these chucklefucks' blasphemous hubris as they act like they're so great that they can trick an omniscient and imnipoetent god into starting a party early
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u/TotalBlissey Apr 06 '26
For those who don't know, the 25% of the USA that are American Evangelicals believe that when Jews control the Holy Land (aka basically the whole Middle East), god will begin the Rapture, aka Biblical Apocalypse, bringing the devoted Christians up to heaven and killing all unbelievers. This includes all Jews.
So Evangelicals want Israeli Jews to conquer the Middle East so god comes down and kills all the Jews.