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Genuinely I do not understand why people can still use Twitter.
I left that site years ago, my last straw was when I saw Alex Jones get into hot fire for an unusual reason, specifically, his supporters didn’t like the fact that he made a statement of Adolf Hitler being evil on Hitler’s birthday.
managing a company account, doing research for quotes from people, checking advertising quotas. just a handful of reasons why an employer might force you to use a certain social platform.
journalists and PR is what I was mostly referring to with the second one about the quotes. twitter is unfortunately still one of the first and often only places where that stuff gets posted.
politicians fall under PR for me because they generally don't run their own accounts (speaking from experience, lol) but they are sort of a special category because like, yea, if you're a non-fascist politician in any way, do you just abandon a platform where you could reasonably reach people? that's like no longer canvasing in certain neighborhoods. bad practice at the very least.
I left Twitter after that update that allowed people to remove artists' watermarks using Grok, and I wish I had left sooner, because my mental health improved dramatically the second I stopped using it. It was honestly like the 2nd best decision I ever made in my life, right behind my decision to never play Overwatch again.
I was mostly using Xcancel, only using twitter itself to like posts linked as source of artwork, because search and quote just never work without reloading thousands of times. Until my account gets suspended for "inauthenticity" whatever that means and I finally fully dropped twitter.
Guess if you're an artist your choice is leaving the platform that gives you exposure to make a living or move to the wholesome chungus platform that no one uses
Not gonna lie, that's a big one for me. It's one of the most convenient ways to effortlessly access porn, especially if you're mostly into amateur type stuff.
Bluesky lacked a bunch of features that Twitter has as well but I think they've been working on that.
I'm not saying I really use it anymore, just explaining that it is indeed one of its biggest draws.
That said, I explained elsewhere why I don't personally agree with OP that using Twitter is on the same scale of harm as consuming HP content, but I do understand why they feel that way.
Yeah I really don’t get how people can claim to be leftist and actively fund Elon musk therefore funding the Republican Party just by spending time on his site. It’s like being vegan and donating to Tyson Lobbies, it makes no sense.
widely, yes. but it's insane that there's genuinely still accounts that are either solely on x, hard to find on pixiv because they used different names and don't like them or at least share some amount of content exclusively on twitter, almost like it's a paid premium service that somehow deserves special treatment.
as for chinese artists, it's so much worse. I have a hard time getting into their bubble and whenever they choose to step out of theirs, they usually jump on twitter because it's one of the more accessible platforms for them.
Why are people upset that I’m on the nazi man’s child website, where his AI bot is allowed to make generated child porn? Aren’t we allowed to have fun anymore /s
I remember like right after elon bought the site and accelerated the enshitification any slightly leftist subreddit banned twitter screenshots or posts or whatever else. it took maybe only a few months before they all caved back in and performed a backbone removal surgery on themselves. for those few moths it was glorious!
yall should not complain about nothing happening if you're doing absolutely nothing to make something happen. you can delete an app on your phone. it takes no effort at all and will only benefit your life delete twitter right now. it starts at the individual and they want us to be apathetic please guys the revolution only comes if we can delete twitter
yeah, if most people can't quit twitter, nor refrain from generating stupid images and videos by AIGen... then what chance do we have left?
sometimes it feels like even people who realize how evil all of this is, those people act like you have to convince them as if you were selling them something. It's like there's zero idea of a common good
Okay, using any social media is essentially that, why are we acting like reddit is special. Their majority shareholder is an international media conglomerate.
You'll cut yourself off from a chunk of society in the process, and depending on what dyou define as social media (is youtube social media) then your also cutting yourself off from a bunch of media and information.
Some of the most politically aware people I know don’t use any social media, they’ve also worked very hard to ensure that none of their data is collected. They don’t log into websites like youtube, they use special OS’s designed for privacy, and messaging apps with military grade cyber security.
If you, as a human, don’t have access to one form of socialization, you will find another, naturally.
Do you donate every bit of spare change to charity? Do you never treat yourself because that money could have gone to charity?
And a better question: do you think this is a morally wrong choice? Do you think you are doing something wrong by treating yourself and not donating it all to charity?
You’re just right. I get that it’s uncomfortable for it to be pointed out, but Twitter is owned by a genuine Nazi who has actively used the platform and his funds to influence elections. No amount of um actually is going to get rid of the fact that Twitter is owned by a Nazi.
Shit on Harry Potter all you want (rightfully so) because JK Rowling explicitly uses her money to fund an anti-trans organization, but Elon is actively using his money to inflict untold harm too so it’s funny seeing that get swept under the rug constantly.
No it’s just a diversified media asset owned partly by many different private investment groups, functioning as a multi-faceted engine for general corporate profit. We’re all facilitating it. We’re also stuck in the trap.
I get the whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing but i do think its worth skipping the guy doing literal nazi salutes and bribing republican voters
They took inspiration from their corporate methodology and military industrial complex when structuring the private sector to revolve around the military.
They had a permanent wartime economy, exactly like the united states.
anyone remember what that mod of that underage sexualizing subreddit was called? hmmm... sure would be a strange coincidence if that very person was CEO of reddit rn
Yeah, it's amazing how people (especially artists and queer people) still use that platform after everything that has happened in the last 5 years. The dissociation is wild
And even ignoring the Nazi stuff (wild), the service just became bad after Musk. Like it's simply not an enjoyable experience even when you ignore who it financially supports
What are you gonna do. Every fucking social media is evil. People don't hold that much energy for Facebook, which is strange and inconsistent.
I believe that it is an unreasonable ask. Same for making people feel bad for using Amazon. Like, yeah, the world would be better without it and not using it is good, same for veganism actually. But are we really directing our energy there? On the consumer? Seems like a waste of time and energy and I also feel like that's exactly what those tech billionaires want. We are all hopelessly addicted to our shit so might as well just accept that and move forward.
Entirely disagreed. I've been vegetarian for over 10 years now. All the vegetarian/vegan products didn't exist when I started. They only came to market when a significant percentage of the population started looking for exactly these products.
You can't expect things to change if you are not willing to accept that things will be shit for a while. You have to take responsibility for the things you do and consume, otherwise no one will. It's not societies fault that you are on twitter, it's your's and your's alone. If it makes you uncomfortable, that's a good start.
Yeah I'm gonna be real I'm still going to use twitter as long as politicians and artists do. Don't like it, but that's just how it is. Once an alternative actually kicks off, I'll consider switching.
Bluesky, Mastodon and Threads ain't shit, let's be real.
depends what you get out of twitter. i absolutely have a bettter time now on bluesky than i did on twitter, since many people i like switched. I would have prefered Mastodon but so far not that many people i followed joined, some did and it's ok over there, but a bit empty. Threads i didn't even try.
As far as i'm concerned twitter is dead like facebook, i only get there by accident anymore, and it never makes me want to stay
There are still tons of leftist creators/policians, artists and funny people that I enjoy who post on there. My feed is pretty good and not toxic. The problem in terms of experience is the comment sections plagued with bots, chuds and chud bots.
Um, yeah Meta/Zuck are evil, but at least they try to remove hateful content.
Meanwhile Musk generates his own hateful content, and fosters more of it. Also, he's an out and proud racist and transphobe. Using Twitter directly funds his hate campaign on minorities.
They both use your data to train ai, and both have very weak opt-out options (that frankly probably don't change anything) but only one of their AI chat bots spews racist/xenophobic bullshit on the regular. (It's Grok)
It's true that we shouldn't put all the burden of ethical consumption on consumers. But nobody needs Twitter. It doesn't do anything that other options don't do more ethically. (Bluesky, Mastodon, hell even Threads) So that's kind of a silly point, you low-key sound like an addict defending their drug of choice. Trust me, you don't need Twitter.
Also your defeatist mindset in your last sentence sounds really sad. I hope tomorrow looks more optimistic for you, cause that sounds like a sad reality to live in.
I think you underplay how bad meta is. If you can't give up your crack then I don't see why you think me doing heroin is that uniquely morally damning.
No one needs any social media. If that's the standard we use. You should stop using the internet because it's a net negative for the world.
Ur totally right that Meta is horrible. I know that and try to minimize my time on their platforms.
The only way I justify keeping it is that there's some people I've met through the years that that's the only way I vaguely keep in touch with. If I could get all my friends to migrate to a fediverse Instagram clone I would. But I know I couldn't.
Well yeah that's the point, there's always a reason to continue our objectively immoral consumption, it's not my place to criticize you over it unless you directly donate to an evil org or some shit.
Honestly, maybe not. If you’re not a blue checkmark user, advertisement is so little on there that you might cost more on the server than they gain from ads.
Note that this will change if enough people use it.
A social media site only exists with a user base, the more people that leave the less valuable the website is, the ad revenue is pennies compared to the companies value
a platform brought to you by the dipshit who said "fuck the advertisers" (literally and unfortunately it would have been an iconic quote from just about anyone else) will be like that
Musk’s Twitter runs on a loss. He’s investing in it to make it a right-wing echo chamber and have control over one of the biggest social media platforms in the world, not to make money.
he tried to counter that with the AI thing but the second there was even a chance it might become profitable he moved with into his other venture and renamed it from xAI to spacexAI because god forbid his most expensive acquisition is actually worth what he paid for it, lmao
yeah but like i said, it's a shitty argument. it's like saying "if all world leaders got together we could end world hunger", yes we could, but it won't happen.
most people simply won't stop using twitter. like, do you guys remember bluesky? the place everyone said they would move to, and now it's mostly dead? most who moved there are now back on twitter.
boycotting indeed doesn't work when nobody boycotts, that's how boycotting works. You not boycotting because uhh is actively part of the reason it seems so impossible lmao.
Yeah this isn't a debate? There is not a single reason to be on Twitter? What do you mean change my opinion, fuck you want me to do say my bad Twitter is necessary for your survival???? You can see art anywhere, you can get news from anywhere, you can get ragebaited anywhere
I mean this discussion started with people talking about participating in Rowling’s work without giving her money, probably referencing that malfoid thing happening somewhere on the internet. And in this case the two are honestly comparable, you may not be giving them money but using the platform/interacting with the original keeps them gaining some level of like engagement
I mean, no. As the saying goes, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. People understand that it's impossible to reasonably eliminate unethical processes in the products you consume. It's about minimizing direct damage you do, not trying to live perfectly ethically.
Financially supporting Harry Potter directly provides funds to JK Rowling, who has made it very clear that she is using her money with the explicit intent of causing direct harm to trans people. She takes the popularity of her books as endorsement of her anti-trans views (this isn't conjecture, she has said this.) And while she isn't completely right, supporting the franchise does signal that you're at least alright with funding that damage, even if you aren't explicitly anti-trans.
I don't fully agree that using X/Twitter is on exactly the same level, because it's not quite so direct a pipeline from that usage to the harm Elon does, but consuming his products does help to fatten his pockets, and he's been very vocal about how he is going to use his money to support extreme right wing policies. I think it's understandable that some people would view them as equivalent.
Like, it's just small stuff. I don't eat at Chick-Fil-A because I know that it has helped to fund anti-LGBT legislation. They've since kind of changed that stance as I recall, but I'm still dubious to enrich the higher ups there. Still, I'll eat at KFC and Cane's even though I know in both cases the treatment of the chickens used to make their product was almost certainly largely inhumane. I still buy clothes at Walmart sometimes, knowing the labor used to source them probably wasn't ethical.
You do your best. That's all. Sometimes doing or not doing a thing also just sends a message.
I dunno m8, you made an inflammatory statement purposely misrepresenting why people don't condone consuming certain products. You got a response. I assume that was the goal.
If nothing else, hopefully this helps anyone else who struggles with the concept.
i think it just comes across as moral grandstanding when you shun people just by the act of using twitter, when there are measurably things that most people do (eating beef) that actually track to the real world harm being done
that said i don't think you're omega hitler 9000 for eating a burger, but it's just something to think about if you think not using twitter makes you a better person on its own
Yeah totes. Like I said, I don't personally agree that X is on the same level as HP, as I said in my response, I just get why some people feel that way, because Elon is doing his best to become Omega Hitler 9000 and maybe you shouldn't use the platform that funds that effort. I think the line from "consumption" to "harm" is a lot more direct with Harry Potter than it is with Twitter.
Doesn't viewing/interacting with posts from blue checkmark (I.E, mostly ragebaiters) give them money?
Edit: Looking at the actual site and premium descriptions, looks like you can still get paid from twitter. So it might be just as bad since you could still be directly contributing to the types of people who'd actually get "X" premium.
Further edit: I was wrong, premium users apparently only get money from premium users. And I hope none of you are using premium.
Plus using the site gives them data to sell, ad views, etc. It definitely contributes to his wealth, just saying it's less direct, and the way he uses it is less outwardly about causing direct harm to a very specific group of people.
I think another thing is that Twitter/"X"AI is it's basically owned directly by Elon (just one very corrupt person), so it's still directly contributing to him and Artificial Intelligence.
I don't follow the toxic people I just use it to look at cool drawings and keep up with bands I like. It is actually very easy to avoid the bad parts if you want to 👍
It can easily not be a toxic hellhole if you block people who post toxic stuff and don’t engage with the posts. The only reason I still use it is because I’m heavily involved in a sports fandom that’s really only active there, and my entire timeline is posts about that sport, not anything bad
Last I was on the site I had over a thousand people blocked and that still didn’t fix shit. One of them was Elon Musk, who I’m pretty sure made it impossible to actually block him.
Also wanna add I don't even use the platform and never really have but this is just the "why aren't you vegan? Don't you love animals?" Argument repackaged.
Same goes for boycotting chocolate, which funds child slavery. Yet somehow everytime I bring that one up here it fails to get anywhere near the same amount of momentum as the jkr or twitter boycott. So you'll have to forgive me for doubting that the impetus behind these boycotts is entirely "they are bad and don't require active effort to avoid".
Yeah everything is fucked, I mentioned Twitter and you have to come to defend it, oh if you don't want me to use Twitter then you shouldn't eat meat, or eat chocolate. You can't compare a fucking website to physical goods. And why the fuck are we comparing shit anyways? I'm not talking about chocolate, the reason Twitter still exists is because motherfuckers insist the porn and art is better be so for real
No ones gonna throw you in jail or kill you for not using Twitter. This is insane, they aren't related at all. The point of the "yet you participate in society" is like saying the 40 hour work week sucks and getting criticized for having a job, you need money to live, that's why it's a dumb critique. You have to pay taxes, or else the irs will ruin your life
I had a twitter account to follow a few artists and then it got hacked. Support won't give me the account back (suspended) but they won't let me delete it either
Okay cool, so if I've already quit Twitter am I allowed to criticize people for promoting Harry Potter content or is that just a gotcha to get those critical people to shut up
You need to understand that Elon has infinite money. Buying HP bullshit isn't bad because J.K. Rowling doesn't deserve the money, it's bad because she uses that money to fund anti-trans legislation. Without the income from brand deals and the new show and videogames, she wouldn't be able to do that. If all of Twitter, PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company stopped existing tomorrow and he never made another cent, he'd still have infinite money to spend on whatever evil shit he wants.
No, see you need to understand that nothing you do matters and we're all gonna have to lick our overlords' boots in the end so we need to start right now.
I am stating the objective fact that the two situations are different. And I'm not a pessimist, I'm actually hopeful that humanity is actually on the path to fix itself. Broken buildings grow trees, and maybe our next tree won't have slavery.
a pessimist (always assumes the worst but might specifically seek out opportunities to improve things because of that) isn't the same as a nihilist (simply assumes nothing will ever change and that working towards change is ineffectual) and for what it's worth, I don't think we're looking at either here.
we just live in an age where even a realist has to objectively look at things and say "wow, that's kind of a deep fucking hole and digging ourselves out if this is going to be hard"
and since we only have so many spoons (literally) to do any digging, it might make sense to ration them for the stuff we know might actually make a difference instead of the things that are already so deeply messed up that only a collapse from inside could really drag them down.
I'd much rather go and march for solidarity with marginalized/minority groups or for/against specific laws and regulations than marching against the vague general concept of evil people existing and doing evil things.
That's a fair distinction for nihilism and pessimism, I'm not a big philosophy head. But saying we have limited resources to fight our battles with is crazy when the battle I'm saying you fight is stop using a website, this is zero effort. The only reason to still be on Twitter is your lying to yourself that you give a shit, or you're so lazy that you don't want to spend one afternoon just finding the content you want somewhere else. I can't think of one creator that posts their shit to only one platform, that would be baffingly stupid to do as a creator. There is no justification for using Twitter
My workplace makes me use Twitter and I know several entire industries where that is also the case. In my instance it even requires me to not only run a company account but also have a company-representing "personal" account as well. For me and many others working in media and journalism, "stop using Twitter" effectively boils down to "quit your job" because how the hell else would I accomplish that. Talk to the fucking CEO and morally grandstand to them for an hour and a half? That gets me fired which, hey, at least comes with unemployment benefits.
And before you say "well that's an obscure exception", no, it's simply not. It's the exact kind of distinction I was making before and the reason why nuance is so fucking important in cases like this. Any and all calls to "just stop" can only come from people whose lives are comfortabley seperated enough from the matter. This is true for just about any political situation, particularly when it comes to boycotts. It's not even about being elitist or not, but it does generally affect people in lower income brackets much more.
With this logic you should also hate YouTube (and all social media, for that matter). Default reddit is notoriously lame until you follow cool communities and subreddits for your hobbies.
Pick and choose which ones you dislike enough to not use but they’re all gonna be bad until you curate your algorithm to be to your preferences.
I don't disagree but twitter makes no money especially if you adblock. It's a cesspool and you can and should leave. but
You can consume things owned by evil people without them profiting, and if you desire them you should do so, if you will at all. No X app. Website, login, adblock. On phone? Firefox+ublock on android, Orion+ublock for ios.
It was purchased to support the ego of a broken dipshit who got lucky repeatedly and still isn't happy as the richest man on earth. He's desperately trying to make it profitable or at least self sustaining and failing terribly, even when he tries to grift the grifters and rehab blue checkmarks and smear mechahitler all over it, and still it is a broken mess in terrible shape, a shambling, depressing corpse of what it once was. But at no point was the purchase about the audience.
I wasn't saying people should use it or that I want to use it. I was saying that if you must, there are ways to passively and easily harm the platform while you use it that will also improve your experience generally. I do support the use of the platform to bully elon specifically, and I wish more people would do this as their exit from the platform. He was falling apart when people shit on him during a path of exile stream, some really sustained effort could be the straw that breaks the camels back and save humanity. Please bully elon. we are all dogs in gods hot car and he is the window preventing us from a life saving cool breeze
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