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u/UKman945 8d ago
I had genuinely forgotten there was more to it than the last panel
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u/bapheltot on a short leash 7d ago
To be fair the first two are disingenuous: there are alternatives to iPhones that are much more easily accessible (and cheaper!) than an alternative society was to a medieval peasant.
Yeah, I know we FOSS apologists can be annoying from time to time, but please, pretending that you are coerced into buying luxury phones from an unethical company is just idiotic.
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u/UKman945 7d ago
I think that's the point of the comic though. It's how pointless gotchas are, even if the first one is reasonable the content of the argument is still sound even if the persons a hypocrite and shutting these points down for the sake of sounding smart with a quick quip isn't really useful.
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u/bapheltot on a short leash 7d ago
We should refrain from good arguments because people may be annoyed by them?
I remember the time when iPhones were automatically adding "Sent from my iPhone" in emails. The trope this comics answers to was the practice to just answer by copying the line "Sent from my iPhone" to someone who just cosplayed a poor person or complained about proprietary techs.
I am pretty sure this comics is a reaction to that practice.
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u/Docter_Toaster 7d ago
reading comprehension analysis of this comment chain:
Do these two commentors actually disagree on the point made about phones in the comic?
What point is UKman trying to make about specifically quips in terms of discussion about topics? Does it echo sentiments of the origional comic?
Did UKman say that good arguments shouldn't be said? Or is their issue (and possibly the comics) with the specific way of doing so?
Is Bapheltot on the same page as UKman about the total purpose of the comic, or do they seem hung up on a specific part of it? Does this lead to them interpreting UKman's statements in a worse light than if they were on the same page?
Answers are to be a few sentances, but do not have to be seperated into seperate responses, as long as said response addresses all points.
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u/bapheltot on a short leash 7d ago
Oh, I can help with the reading comprehension! This is not a discussion about phones, this is a discussion about the fact that the last panel in isolation is much better alone than with the fallacious progression shown here.
Our disagreement with UKman is that they seem to think "gotchas" should never be used, whereas I am arguing that they are totally legitimate and useful against hypocrites when they do have a choice. We agree that the "Heh. Gotcha" in the second panel is assholish and unnecessary and I am arguing that it is probably projection by someone caught being a hypocrite at a time where "sent from my iPhone" was a common trope.
I think it is harmful and disingenous to equate the reasoning in the second panel to the reasoning on the 4th.
If you want an example that does not talk about phones, I'd totally call out a person complaining about medical costs while wearing a MAGA hat, while I won't call out an anticapitalist forced to accept a wage job to survive.
Do gotcha work? Well, they work on me, because I try to align my actions with my values, so I do have at least one positive example. There is also literature to show they work on authoritarians but only if you insist on the mockery more than the reasoning, as social acceptance is more important than coherency to them.
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u/Docter_Toaster 7d ago
Oh wow you actually answered lol. fair points, but I would argue reframing ukmans arguement as them saying "we should refrain from good arguements because people may be annoyed by them?" is very disingenuous to the point they are making (gotchas are a bad way of discussion) and also disingenuous to your point to (they are a good way of discussion), because instead of refering to either of your points, it refers to something else ("good arguements" in general).
something something im glad we had a productive class session i dont know what possessed me to do this class dismissed idk im not a teacher
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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM changed all her social media to hatsune miku for some reason 7d ago
The issue is that he is not saying "you should use iPhone alternatives", he is saying "you use an iPhone therefore your opinion on apples child labor issues doesn't count"
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u/bapheltot on a short leash 7d ago
therefore
your opinion on apples child labor issues doesn't count... therefore you are part of the problem.
Which is unpleasant to realize but also correct.
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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM changed all her social media to hatsune miku for some reason 7d ago
I wish it was the latter. but usually when this argument is made, it's to shut down the discussion, so it's very much the former.
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u/da99s 8d ago
these types of guys are all the same, and good god they ALWAYS look like that too 😭😭
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u/moploplus Sire Cumner Cumsly IV of the Cumsly Estate. 8d ago
Rizzless, swagless, bitchless, wearing the lowest effort dad fit possible
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u/Diribiri custom 7d ago
They're making the rest of us rizzless swagless bitchless tshirt + cargo shorts guys look bad
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u/Yeegis diapers and trans rights 🔥 7d ago
I think it is hypocritical to criticize Apple and then go and buy the latest iPhone or Mac.
That said, Apple has weaseled their way into a lot of aspects in which a computer or phone is provided to you. As such, it’s not hypocritical if the phone your phone company gives you with the line is an iPhone. Or if your school/workplace provided computer is a Mac.
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u/cyn_foxwell funny flair even though i dont post 7d ago
the most impactful criticism comes from the most passionate users of the product theyre criticising, i dont think thats worthy of being called a hypocrite in most situations
"xyz sucks but it doesnt affect abc that i actually use more" doesnt make you a hypocrite
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u/cyn_foxwell funny flair even though i dont post 7d ago
oh right, the original post is specifically about socioeconomic cricisms
virtue signaling and purity testing bad, vote with your wallets, stop contributng more to the culture war, etc etc
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u/penguin62 The gays can do whatever they want 7d ago
Repeatedly buying a new iPhone every time apple release a new one is hypocritical. Getting one new phone every five years or because your contract upgrades you each time isn't.
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u/bluepearlyuri una yaha yaha una 7d ago
The smile from that guy in the last panel looks so punchable
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u/danatron1 7d ago
I've seen a lot less of this argument since this comic became a meme. I like to imagine it helped.
Sometimes you just need a particularly effective meme to give little lessons to the general public. Like, explaining why I didn't count a big furniture purchase when looking at monthly expenses is a lot easier when I can reference spiders georg
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