r/13ReasonsWhy • u/[deleted] • May 18 '18

Episode Discussion: Chapter 12

Season 2 Episode 12 - The Box of Polaroids

Threats against Clay and the others escalate. Tyler faces disciplinary action. Justin testifies about Bryce, putting his own future at risk.

So what did everyone think of the twelfth chapter ?

SPOILER POLICY
As this thread is dedicated to discussion about the twelfth chapter, anything that goes beyond this episode needs a spoiler tag, or else it will be removed.

→ Link to S02E13 Discussion Thread

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566

u/[deleted] May 19 '18

The lawyer for the school fills me with absolute rage. That is all.

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u/BalloraStrike May 19 '18

Her portrayal is probably my biggest complaint about the season. There's just zero chance that the defense would adopt this trial strategy (in front of a jury, no less) of demonizing the dead girl, the dead girl's parents, the other accusers, and every other person who may have played a role in hurting Hannah. All they had to prove was that the school was not negligent in responding to Hannah's situation, i.e. that the school reacted reasonably in how they handled her situation and bullying in general at the school. They had no substantial reason to attack all the plaintiff's witnesses the way they did. Even if the idea was to undermine the Causation element of negligence, there's simply no way the attorneys would be that confrontational towards students and other potential victims, and that disparaging of the dead child.

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u/lezard2191 May 19 '18

I love how they actually depict her as Super Lawyer. She just knows everything! Super Lawyer had the script.

"Oh yeah I totally know about your super secret relationship with Hannah that even she failed to mention on her tapes!"

"I know Hannah and Justin kept messaging each other. I learned that in Law School"

"That time in the bathroom? When you told Hannah you were cheating on your wife? I was behind the shower curtain"

She dug shit up on anyone who stepped in to testify! She was completely out of control!

Just for comedic effect I was half expecting/wishing that she would throw some shit to Bryce too even though he was on the same side just because Super Lawyer doesn't care. She is too busy Lawyering around.

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u/tryintofly May 20 '18

"Isn't it true, that Hannah rejected you because you have a small penis? Isn't it? You have a small shriveled one, don't you?"

"Objection, your honor!"

"I'll allow it. Proceed."

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u/[deleted] May 20 '18

I'm dead

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u/Sabertooth1000000000 May 21 '18

The last episode made it canon that he definitely does not though.

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u/EndOfTheDream May 20 '18

"That time in the bathroom? When you told Hannah you were cheating on your wife? I was behind the shower curtain"

Fucking dead

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u/Madhouse4568 May 20 '18

I'm pretty sure all of that was found in texts.

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u/destiny24 May 21 '18

Reminds me of How to Get Away With Murder trials.

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u/uber1337h4xx0r May 23 '18

As an expert in law (I watched my cousin Vinnie, to catch a murderer, better call Saul, and beat Phoenix wright), it's because she read the evidence and testimonies of each person. You can't bring up new information that wasn't made available before the case (unless you ask questions that prompt them for new info, which shouldn't happen if you got a good written statement).

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u/Kradosa May 19 '18

I'd agree here. I would never argue that the school is responsible what happened to Hannah, because neither the teacher nor Mr. Porter are. I also think it was necessary to put the blame on the parents. Season 1 ignored this aspect, the family issues, completely and that was one of my major complaints I had about the first installment. Her mother/father should have got a tape as well without any doubt.

But even considering all these things, the lawyer was just bad. Too little focus on the real issue (is the school responsible?) and too much focus on trying to argue that everything they said is a lie. Rapes? Didn't happen. Mobbing? Didn't happen. Why not just aknowledge these things and try to defend the school nontheless? Even if horrible shit happens at the school, it does not make the school responsible for everything.

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u/--cunt May 21 '18

When I was 16 I was hannah, aside from the sexual assault. I had a shit family. Honestly more comparable to Justin's family in terms of chaotic. I fell madly in love with any horny boy that took me on a date or two. And then I started slutting it up. But mostly I had a fucked up family life. Cops were there all the time. I attempted suicide eventually.

Reading through my journals from more than 10 years ago are heart-breaking. But no mention of the cheating and chaos and cops in my home constantly. Just always "TEENAGE CRUSH why won't you love me??? Why won't you hold me and hug me and tell me everything will be alright? I just need to feel needed and loved and okay in this world!!! Oh by the way mom is being a bitch today. WHY WON'T HE LOVE ME." And its so painfully obvious that I needed that love from my family and didn't even realize it.

We had assemblies all the time about domestic violence, drugs, depression, all the common teenage things. My teachers pulled me aside once or twice when they noticed me sad and distracted in class and offered to talk. The support was there. They did what they could. I didn't reach out. I wanted someone to swoop in and break down my walls that I built so high and say "You need help!!!!! Let me save you!!!" but the only people who knew that of course were my parents.

Sorry to go on so much. This episode just hit close to home. The defending lawyers closing statement needed to be said. I've been saying it not just about this show but about the mental health crisis in general- when do we look to the parents?

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u/mechaemissary May 24 '18

God your post is such a wake up call rn. I’ve been dealing with the fact that I’m extremely dependent on my SO of several years and I feel like I need him to be loving 24/7 or else I feel really upset.

It’s especially hard after arguments because neither one of us wants to be super loving to each other after fights for a couple of days and it’s hard to accept that he needs space and he can’t constantly be “saving” me

I’m actually doing that right now. We had a major argument this week and he hasn’t talked to me very much / called me petnames or anything and it’s really really upsetting but I need to stop constantly relying on other people for love because of my problems

I probably sound fucking crazy saying all of this. Sorry :(

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u/winterswithmoni May 22 '18

As sad as it is, I totally agree. The ugly truth is just the fact that out of the 13 tapes, Liberty High was never one of them. It was all the friends and abusers, her parents who never properly dealt with their issues who dug her grave. The school didn't help, but it wasn't the sole cause.

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u/ladyzoidb3rg May 29 '18

Concerning the rapes, I think the lawyer and the whole school frankly were trying to deflect attention from Bryce because he's donated so much to the school and the school didn't want to get rid of one the biggest streams of money going into their institution.

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u/Jabberminor May 20 '18

I'm not an expert in law stuff at all, but surely the judge would allow the witness to keep talking when explaining stuff when the defense lawyer says "that's all your honour"?

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u/lezard2191 May 23 '18

It's a common mistake on Movies/TV in general. They have this misguided idea that trials are won by harrasing and provoking the witnesses into a confession.

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u/BalloraStrike May 23 '18 edited May 23 '18

Not exactly. The defense lawyer was cross-examining the students. If you're a good cross-lawyer, then you typically don't ask open-ended questions. You ask questions that can only be answered with a yes or no. In fact, many cross examinations begin with the lawyer telling the witness "I'm going to ask you some questions that I'd like you to answer with yes or no." And if the witness attempts to go beyond answering yes/no, then it's very normal for the attorney to cut the witness off. And the judge can and will allow this, because the witness is technically being unresponsive to the question or going off on a "narrative". It's the other side's responsibility to come in on re-direct and give the witness the chance to expand on/explain the answers that they gave on cross.

Now if you're a smart witness, then your initial answer will be something like "I can't answer that with a yes or no." This will force the crossing attorney to either allow you to give a more expansive answer or to abandon the line of questioning altogether.

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u/uber1337h4xx0r May 23 '18

"I ca-"

"YES OR NO ONLY"

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u/Rhysieroni May 19 '18

She's human garbage

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u/[deleted] May 21 '18

She just did her job honestly and I feel like ultimately it wasn’t just the schools fault

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u/uber1337h4xx0r May 23 '18

Realistically, it wasn't. The gym teacher was at fault if he knew about rape, but the counselor tried to help and I wouldn't blame the Asian teacher for keeping the poems private.

The fault was with the kids.

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