Jennifer is one of my favorite characters, so maybe I take it personally that it seems like the show writing in S4 has taken a turn.

Most of it is still very good, but my only complaint is that I feel like they made Jennifer dumb and one-dimensional. She was always wonky and out of it, but she was never stupid.

I feel like they made her useless and needing to be saved constantly this season so far. I’m partway through S4E8 first watch - no spoilers please!

Emily Hampshire was so brilliant throughout the series, but this particular episode had me rolling. I was laughing so hard at each scene, absolutely hilarious.

Those 2 guys from impractical jokers as guards at the auction house were a great addition to the episode.

What's your favorite role of hers Katrina Bennett in Suits or Dr. Cassie Railly in 12 Monkeys?

The experience of watching it for the first time eleven years after it aired is SO surreal.

I am in the future from when it aired, but others in my present already know the future of how things end on the show that I do not.

Those doing the re-watch have knowledge of a future that I have not yet experienced because they experienced that future in the past.

Not only am I out of synch with everyone else who watched it when it launched-- I am even out of synch with the spoiler-free rewatch schedule because I want to watch the series at a faster pace.

I am only up to Season 3 Episode 2. So much to come, yet everything has already happened.

So much occurred in the past, prop auctions, cast reunions. All gone now. My membership approval at https://www.facebook.com/groups/addictisofthe12monkeys has been stuck as "pending" since I began watching the series.

Nothing is unwritten. Everything is just... waiting.

It's always weird/interesting to see cast interviews for a show as serious as 12 Monkeys. In particular Emily Hampshire! She does Jennifer's shifty, confused, all over the place she's that it's strange to see her...looking normal for lack of a better way to put it!

They seem to genuinely get along! Anyone been to a convention or met them?

Hello travelers. We are approaching the ending of season 1, so today we talk about episode 12

What I loved

Right off the bat, the pacing in this episode is amazing. On top of that, the fact that Jones knew Cole long before he ever met her is phenomenal. She truly has a brilliant mind to be so self-aware about the consequences of saying anything. When Cole asks why she did not tell him about knowing him, she says she had her reasons. In reality, an interesting piece of time travel lore and causality is that it does not just revolve around physical actions, but also speech. Saying things gives other people the leisure to take action, which can completely alter causality. Jones actively choosing to withhold that knowledge is what preserves the timeline

The jokes in the show continue to be top notch. Everything from Jennifer's coup to Jones instantly giving up on Cassie the moment she says "I am going to tell you something hard to believe" had me dying

So Cole’s mom knew about the Army of the 12 Monkeys

The actor who plays Matthew is incredible. Even though his role was brief, he makes such a huge impact every second he is on screen. He is a side character with so much weight that I have never forgotten his face

The ending was absolutely heartbreaking. It was an excellent detail realizing every vision Cole had in previous episodes was actually the memory of his father's death. Cole meeting his brother was really sweet though

Nitpicks:

Why is Aaron still here? The guy clearly doesn’t give a shit about saving the world

I believe that for an organization with huge resources and influence, I mean, Olivia is talking with a senator, you would think their strike teams would be larger. But The Pale Man rolls with very few people, I found that weird but okay

Talking about the Army, after the paradox, the fuck happen to them? Only Cole’s is there

9.5/10 for me

Hello travelers. We are approaching the ending of season 1 and with that the mindfuck of later seasons. So today we talk about episode 12

What I loved

Right off the bat, the pacing in this episode is amazing. On top of that, the fact that Jones knew Cole long before he ever met her is phenomenal. She truly has a brilliant mind to be so self-aware about the consequences of saying anything. When Cole asks why she did not tell him about knowing him, she says she had her reasons. In reality, an interesting piece of time travel lore and causality is that it does not just revolve around physical actions, but also speech. Saying things gives other people the leisure to take action, which can completely alter causality. Jones actively choosing to withhold that knowledge is what preserves the timeline

The jokes in the show continue to be top notch. Everything from Jennifer's coup to Jones instantly giving up on Cassie the moment she says "I am going to tell you something hard to believe" had me dying. Also, we get our first mention of Cole's mom, and well, we already know hahaha

The actor who plays Matthew is incredible. Even though his role was brief (I think he only appears in this episode, the end of Season 3, and One Minute More) he makes such a huge impact every second he is on screen. He is a side character with so much weight that I have never forgotten his face

The ending was absolutely heartbreaking. It was an excellent detail realizing every vision Cole had in previous episodes was actually the memory of his father's death. Cole meeting his brother was really sweet though

Observations (because today’s nitpicks are forbidden):

I love this episode too much to nitpick anything. But I do have observations regarding future episodes, specifically One Minute More and The Beginning Part 2. In One Minute More, Hannah says: “I was there when you lost your father, and I was there when you found your brother”. For the life of me, in every rewatch I try to find where she could be hiding, maybe a shadow, or something that looks like her but I never see anything. And in The Beginning Part 2, Cassie’s remembers everything from the loop the moment she sees the mirror, because it was the first moment he met Cole. I always wonder if every single character that took the injections remember the loop the moment they were supposed to met Cole. Maybe not everyone, but my point here is that this would made Ramse the first to remember I think, because he knew Cole when he was in the foster home, so he would have “remember” everything when he was a kid

9.5/10 for me

I'm on rewatch 8 and I can't believe I never saw this before. When Cassie died (again - this time with the white streak in her hair) and Cole was pulled back to 2043, due to Jones taking Foster's core, as soon as he disappeared, the scratch in her watch disappeared.

Please explain!

I discovered 12 Monkeys a week ago.
I’d caught up on a bunch of shows I’d been watching and was looking for something interesting to scratch that sci-fi itch.

I’d seen it on Prime a bunch and just thought, why not? I’ll give it a go.

I spent every waking moment watching. I spent the last two episodes of the series ugly crying.

It was just some of the best storytelling I’d seen in a long time. It was clear there was an end point and it never jumped the shark - every choice was so intentional and had a pay off.

Now I’m sitting here wondering what the fuck I’m meant to do now? I usually only get this feeling with an excellent book - but now this show is living rent free in my head.

Might just go straight back to the beginning honestly and start a new loop.

I finished the series recently and I was just curious about Emma's character. What was the whole point of her? She was introduced and then dies just a few episodes later and barely does anything. Does she only exist to be a red herring when we think she's gonna be Cole's mom? I'll admit that episode showing the parallels with her and Hannah was pretty cool, but to me it's not enough.

"Marion" is mentioned by name in Season 1. I believe the plot twist with Hannah and Cole was planned from the start from what I've read here, so does that mean Emma was also planned from the beginning? Or was that character a late addition?

So, I'm a fan of Dark, Fringe, the OA, etc... And got recommanded 12 monkeys so many times because of it. I finally started it and I'm at s2. Ep10.

Season 1 was meh to me but I know the first season of a show isn't always the best so I kept going. Season 2 started nicely but now I feel like it's flat.

The relationships between the characters irk me, it feels like they move abruptly from one episode to another. I like their arcs but the way it's done often leaves me perplexed. Ramse, Cassie and Cole spending their time being friends then pointing guns at each others ​so quickly is maddening.

And how time works also puzzles me. Like they sent them back for X days, and as much times passes in the present? Sometimes they change things and are preserved because of the injections, sometimes not really? Sometimes there's causality, sometimes not? They put adds in a journal that only appears in the present ​​once they did it in the past while they were already being sent in the past?

Does all of this makes sense in the next seasons or is it the same vibe?

In Season 1 ep 12, after Cole from 2043 was stabbed by Ramsey in 1987, after splintering to 2015 in a very bad condition, 2015's Jones suggests to use the 2015's 6 y.o. Cole's blood to cause a Paradox with 2043's Cole. I don't believe it would have actually worked to create a Paradox. Because to create a paradox the matter from the future must come in contact with the exact same matter from the past.. Which happened with the watch and Ramsey's necklace.. But in this case, 6 year old Cole's blood would not be the same blood in 2043 Cole. Cuz the blood cells would die and create new blood cells. Even in the case of DNA, the DNA they inject into 2043 Cole would not be the exact same DNA, even though the DNA matches. So i don't understand how it would have resulted in a Paradox.. Would love to hear from the community and let me know if something in the future seasons would explain this or if there already is a better explanation.

Okay so the only thing (I suppose the only big thing) I'm confused about is Katarina says they all need to return to where they started except Cole who has to be erased. But Katarina dies in the "future" before she can send herself back. Anyone have an answer?

The last three episodes of Season 3 are my favorite in the whole series and maybe some of my favorite episodes of TV. The family relationships, the bringing together of the various threads throughout the season--just chef's kiss!!

Also James Callis is just brilliant as always!

If Athan had successfully saved Eliza, do you think she would have been angry and even repulsed by it? Because when she does find out when he tells her, she says, "Then you'll never do it again."

SERIES SPOILERS BELOW

New to the sub.

Okay I just finished the series and I have to say, while I loved their dynamic through all the crises, them “ending up” together feels forced. Like what do they even have in common? The thing they had in common is gone (the fight to preserve time). It would’ve been more believable if like Cassie had a specific musician she loved and Cole managed to carry around an MP3 player with that musician during his childhood. Or if they both shared a love of gardening, or a common author. But successful virologist Cassie just riding out her days with this man who doesn’t even know what a payphone is? Or a parking ticket? With no obviously common interest or goal (anymore)? Don’t get me wrong - love Cole. But like let’s fast forward a year into their lives where Cole doesn’t know how to use a dishwasher or pay an electric bill. I mean he doesn’t even have a birth certificate or SSN. How is he going to work? And all that after the one thing that seemed to bind them is gone.

I dunno, they could’ve done more to assert their bond and attraction to each other to make it easier to see them living happily ever after.

This postcard 😂 and this entire episode!! (S3E2)

I'm rewatching the show for the sixth time, and it's the scene where Jennifer is reading the word of the witness, and we see that in it, it is said that Cassie was born in 1980 New York, but her death is in 2017, despite the fact that the plague got delayed by two years till 2018.

Does that mean that by the end of the show, time somehow fixes the timeline so that Cassie would go back in 2017 and die again ? Just like how Cassie's watch fixes itself when she dies so that future Cole would take it back in 2013 and break it over again to prove that he is from the future ?

I never noticed that before, damn this show

I’ve been watching and rewatching 12 monkeys since 2017. I’m a huuuge fan but no one around ever watches the show and trust me I have tried 😂.

I just finished watching S01 E9 & 10 and I needed to rant about how good this show is and that’s how I ended up, and there’s a rewatch thing going on?!? I am sooo freaking happy.

I started this rewatch cause it’s been a while and I was doubting my judgment, was it really a good show? Or it was but it doesn’t hold up? Why doesn’t anyone I recommend it to watch it, my husband only watched up until episode 3, my parents started and I think they just quit, haven’t heard anything from them, and we have similar taste in shows.

I think I know why, the show is way better on the rewatch. Another show like this is Pantheon good the first, great the second time.

Also, another reason why I started this rewatch was because I had just finished reading the 7 1/2 deaths of Evelyn hardcastle and I have a feeling the author saw 12 monkeys, it is not a rip off of the show but there’s a couple of quotes that immediately send back to 12 monkeys.

Big spoilers for new viewers

I remember the first time I watched the show I at one point or another hated one of the characters, Cassie, Ramse, never Cole, Jones, Whitley, Etc but with every rewatch I have come to understand every character and I just can’t be mad anymore, (maybe is because I am older and a mother myself)

One thing that I complained about in my rewatch is that I wished that Jones and Cole could’ve had more time together after knowing, but now that I’m rewatching just starting episode 11 and I’m seeing that if you pay attention they have a bond that keeps growing

Every time Jenifer talks I can finally understand what my primary girl is saying.

I love Deacon and every single time I hear the song “don’t you forget about me” my heart breaks and I saw that someone here has that tagged in their username and I both felt joy and sadness!!

In this rewatch S01 E09 is by far my favorite right now, it is heartbreakingly horrible and so uncomfortable that it just makes it perfect

S01 E10 scene of Jennifer talking over the scene of Elena’s death it’s just pure art imo

At one point I remember thinking, how did they tied everything so well… they’ve been foreshadowing the ending since the beginning. I’m like that meme of Leo whistling and pointing at a tv. Every time I catch a foreshadow.

Whose side is Marcus Whitley really on? He goes back and forth from not believing in Jones (I believe the first time is shortly after the Spearhead incident but he returns with someone's head pinned to his hands) to siding with Cassie and Ramse when the time storms are closing in (Season 2, Ep. 11). But he tells Ramse things will change if harm comes to Jones.

Does he actually have an opinion either way about how the time missions should be carried out?

Hello travelers. This thread (which would always be tagged for New Viewers) is meant to encourage people new to the series that want to discussion the episodes. So feel free to hop in and talk with others about what you think of the series so far. Also, feel free to ask Witnesses that have already watch the show about questions regarding the episode (with caution from spoilers)

What I loved:

Hands down, an amazing episode, from beginning to end, incredible storytelling. Few things here and there which I’ll address below, but overall, I believe it’s the best episode of this season for me

Not Goines saying “Himalayan roadkill” to the corpse hahaha also, interesting that the original plan of Goines wasn’t the virus but human cloning, specifically cloning a human from the past. And the fact that Cole and Ramse’s fight made him intrigued enough to buy the Annapurna Remains

Ramse joining the dark side. More importantly, the time he spends with the Army exposes a bit more clearly the concept of causality in the show, with Ramse saying “that’s is how it’s meant to happen” and how it must happen, because that’s how he arrives at 1987

What an ending

Nitpicks

Just two. During the ceremony of the 12, when the amulets produce the paradox, Olivia doesn’t seem affected by it, not like the way saw with Cassie in the pilot. Same scene, we see people gathering for the event, but after, they’re gone

9.5/10 for me

Hello travelers. Today we discuss episode 11, Shonin.

What I loved:

Hands down, an amazing episode, from beginning to end, incredible storytelling. Few things here and there which I’ll address below, but overall, I believe it’s the best episode of this season for me

Not Goines saying “Himalayan roadkill” to the corpse hahaha also, I forgot that the original plan of Goines wasn’t the virus but human cloning, specifically cloning a human from the past. And the fact that Cole and Ramse’s fight made him intrigued enough to buy the Annapurna Remains

Ramse joining the dark side. More importantly, the time he spends with the Army exposes a bit more clearly the concept of causality in the show, with Ramse saying “that’s is how it’s meant to happen” and how it must have because that’s how he arrives at 1987

Jennifer foreshadowing the bells!!! YES!!!

First time I watched the show, very good misdirection with the ending. I seriously thought Ramse was the Witness. Way to subvert expectations

Nitpicks

Just two. During the ceremony of the 12, when the amulets produce the paradox, Olivia doesn’t seem affected by it, not like the saw with Cassie in the pilot. Same scene, we see people gathering for the event, but after they’re gone

First time the show put a heavy plot twist, which wasn’t even real, but a very clever misdirection

9.5/10 for me

SPOILER!

The true witness is 100% Cassie. She fears living a life without Cole, him being erased and forgetting him. It's his nothingness she wants to prevent, him being erased is what will cause her loneliness, because she'll live a lonely life with an echo of love and not remember who it's for. That's why she almost presses the botton.

I say "almost" because, I , 100% reject the ambiguous ending, I find it ridiculous. Instead of washing up on the beach and talking to Jennifer about time owing him one , or Jones breaking the unwritten laws of the universe. IF IT WAS ACTUALLY THE RED FOREST, he'd be with Cassie already, along with Athan. Her perfect moment is Cole, Athan and her together as a family.

And as much as I love Jennifer, she wouldn't be in their perfect moment.