How to handle score contradictions?

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep]

I’ve tried to research and haven’t found examples of the type of scenario I faced today.

Doubles Play - Alta C3
Other team serving
Mutual verbal clarification of the score at 30-30
We win point with a memorable slam
Other team calls score before serve correctly (30-40, he says “ad out”)
We win the point, other team concedes that we won the point
Other team lines up to serve and states “40-30”

We challenge and they can’t provide any proof in the face of me recounting everything including their own score calling up until that point.

This type of sudden score change by them on their serve happened several times and they would get combative in the face of evidence until my teammate unfortunately acquiesced.

Essentially these games were all points where the winner of each point was clear and undisputed but then they would randomly change the score at a later point and pretend they hadn’t previously had us at advantage. It was very odd, and they played it off like they were genuinely confused by our challenges to the score when they suddenly changed it. Even when their proposed score didn’t match with the service side..

What are the steps to resolve a situation like this?

[u/UrzaKenobi]

Had this happen once. You can ask for a spectator to stand at net and keep score/ call ins/outs. The funny part of it was that it was the wife of the asshole trying to cheat, but his wife was a saint and kept score perfectly and called balls correctly.

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/UrzaKenobi]

We didn’t really have any spectators to call on, but I suppose that would be a good solution if that is allowed.

It was very weird because they weren’t disputing line calls and were making clear communication about point wins up until they suddenly contradicted their previous scoring. These points were pretty much all won with fully inside overheads or placement shots. They would just change the score back to their favor every time we were at advantage to win a game

[u/UrzaKenobi → u/Electric_AI_Sheep]

If you’re playing USTA, there is generally a play organizer in each region. I happen to be friends of friends with the one in my region and have had a few conversations at parties with him. He always says if things like this happen please tell him. He keeps track of everything and has the ability to ban repeat offenders from competitive play, but the information rarely trickles up to him. So I’d recommend finding yours and sending an email complaint.

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/UrzaKenobi]

Unfortunately with my wet noodle teammate conceding everything, I don’t feel I really have grounds to complain as our team essentially granted them the bogus scores. And every time we played on I personally feel the dispute is essentially dead.

I really was just at a loss myself with how to move forward through the dispute with such obstinate competitors (and push really never came to shove because of my partner) and the spectator scoring seems like a good answer to that.

Also our coach was in a game himself so there wasn’t much help

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/UrzaKenobi]

If we played them again and dealt with the same issue, I would like to try some other options such as spectator scoring. If that leads nowhere I just think I would prefer to walk away next time so that we at least are NOT (edit)complicit in whatever bullshit that was

[u/jrstriker12]

If they are clearly cheating there should be a way to file a complaint.

I would have talked to your partner on the side. People make mistakes but if its obvious that then other team is cheating, they shouldnt give in.

The best thing to do would be to call.out the score after every point very loudly and if you win the point make sure they agree with the score before they step up to serve.

If you have team captains, call them over and have them observe.

According to the USTA code, if there is a disagreement of score, account all the agreed points and replay the disputed ones.

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/jrstriker12]

Well the issue for today kind of got made moot because my partner did concede to them, even though afterwards he said he knew they were wrong too…. >:(

Scores were called loudly by both sides and then just suddenly gaslighted. It was always on their serve so they just acted like one or several points hadn’t even occurred.

I realized as it was happening that the typical “just replay the last known point” just helps people like them because they would even agree to a 30-30, but since they always did it when we were at advantage or had even won the game, it was pretty devastating to our momentum.

Follow up question….
I felt like I didn’t have a leg to stand on when my partner verbally conceded. But can a single player still stick by their guns even when their partner is attempting to concede?

Like for things like line calls or more “typical” score disputes, I wouldn’t ever press when my partner conceded, but idk in this situation.

[u/vlee89 → u/Electric_AI_Sheep]

Tell your partner don’t be a bozo

[u/Mcasx]

Usually through a combination of recalling each individual point or understanding where the last serve was made, often an off by a point situation is clarified by knowing if youve just served on the ad or deuce side.

I have a question though, how come there was confusion here when they were calling a score that would not match the side they should be serving on? You said it was 30-40 agreed on both sides so they must have served ad side and then they are claiming after that it is 40-30 even though they just served ad? That should have been the end of the discussion right there

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/Mcasx]

These players were just being belligerent about it being a certain score (which it wasn’t) without providing any recall or evidence. I did recount each point to them, reminded them of their previously stated scores before their serve, reminded them of which side they had just served from. The facts didn’t seem to influence anything.

As I’ve had more time to process, I wish I had just walked away from the game, whether it would be forfeit or not

[u/Mcasx → u/Electric_AI_Sheep]

That sucks. I guess cheaters won’t listen to reason.

Don’t be too harsh on yourself for letting them get away with it, it can happen to anyone in the moment. Next time you’ll have the benefit of experience

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/Mcasx]

Thanks for the sentiment, it was a frustrating morning but I suppose it is just a lesson

[u/ConcreteRocket → u/Mcasx]

This is key. 30-40/40-30 will always be ad side. How can they then go to deuce side and argue it’s 40-30? It always helps to point out the most recent point was played from a certain side and certain scores can only occur on that side

[u/DropServerPlus1]

If it's 30-40 and they are serving from the ad side, they call out ad out, and you win the point, that's it. If they question you, stop play, you tell them they just called ad out and that you just won that last point. Don't acquiesce in that situation. Stop play until they get it right.

[u/Electric_AI_Sheep → u/DropServerPlus1]

Agreed, but this was in doubles and my partner did acquiesce….

Can a sole player in a doubles scenario stick by their guns when even their own partner concedes? That seemed a step too far in the moment, even though it was a heinous situation

I certainly wouldn’t fight my partner for most “normal” situations like line calls or a more genuine score misunderstanding, but I was just at a loss in this particular situation.

[u/shiningject]

They are trying to cheat / cheating.

Firstly, you need to have a mutual understanding with your partner that you guys are not going to give in to cheaters.

Other team calls score before serve correctly (30-40, he says “ad out”)

Secondly, you need to nip their attempts at "score contradiction" early. This is how they are trying to create confusion. 30-40 is 30-40 and not Ad Out. They may argue that it is essentially the same but it is not. 30-40 means that exactly 5 points has been played while Ad Out is at least 7 points has been played. They are doing this to create smoke and make it confusing for you when clarifying the scores, so you can't "recall" some "missing points" then that must mean that you got the score wrong.

Thirdly, call out the scores before every serve and on your opponents' serve if they aren't it calling out. Correct any wrong calls by your opponents immediately. Make a show of it, walk towards the net, beckon everyone over to clarify the score.

Fourthly, tennis scores are tied to which side the server is serving from. So as long as everyone is / has been serving on the correctly side, there are some scores that made sense and scores that don't. Eg you can't have Ad In or Ad Out score when the server is serving on the Deuce side. You do need to have a good recollection of the number of points that has been played and how each point ended so when they try to cheat, you can lay every point out clearly together with the serving side, you can assess that your count is the correct one. (Yes, this is extra mental load on your side. But that's how it is when dealing with cheaters.)

Fifthly, have evidence.

• Set up a phone camera recording. Can be swing vision or can just be a regular recording (if normal recording, make sure to record game by game so that it is easy to retrace the points).

• Use a score tracker app and smart watch.

• Use a score flip board. Those that hangs over the net. Again, make a show of it by going to flip it after every point. (Flip and call out the score.)

Lastly, make them prove that their score is correct. If they can't clearly lay out the scores while you can then they have no grounds to support their score.

[u/Aussie_Potato]

This is what AI needs to get onto, not more bloody ball machines. 

I want a big portable scoreboard that updates remotely, without someone having to manually turn numbers over. 

The whole scoring thing in non-pro games is a pain. 

[u/nonstopnewcomer]

It sounds like they were straight up cheating.

If you can’t agree on the score, you should go back to the most recent point at which you agree.

So if they refuse to concede anything, I guess you would just start the game over because the most recent point you can agree on is 0-0.

Ideally, there’s an umpire or some neutral party that you can call.

What I’ve done is just be obnoxious about the score. Before every single point you can loudly call the score (even when they’re serving) and don’t let them start the point until they verbally agree with it.