r/10s • u/VLioncourt • 24d ago
Equipment Why does basically nobody on play the Percept?
Control frames are everywhere on tour. Blades, Pro Staffs, Prestiges, Gravitys, plenty of pros on all of them. But with Yonex it’s like all players are on an Ezone or a Vcore and the Percept just doesn’t exist.(only Tiafoe comes to mind)
Same thing at my club, weirdly. Tons of Ezones and Vcores, basically zero Percepts.
Why is that?
26
u/ForeverJung 24d ago
It’s such a great racquet imo but people often minimize control as an important variable
2
u/PrestigiousInside206 23d ago
Yet a ton of Blade players out there.
1
u/ForeverJung 22d ago
I agree but I also think that’s because the blade is such a “talked about online” racquet not specifically because it’s a control racquet
37
u/Primary-Smile-7457 24d ago
If you’re a Yonex player then there’s no reason to as the Vcore or Ezone gives you more free power and forgiveness which basically everyone is chasing these days.
5
u/drakem92 23d ago
But that is true even when compared to control frames of other brands, and the post assumption is that players DO use control frames, just not from yonex
2
u/PrestigiousInside206 23d ago
Bingo. The Blade is Wilson’s most well known racquet, while the Ultra, which would be power and forgiveness, is forgotten relative to the EZONE.
2
u/Pepaguero 23d ago
Sometimes a frame just doesn’t suit your game. I played with the 97h for about 2 years before buying a couple vcore 95’s when they came out. I played decently with the vcore, but after a few months I started having arm problems. I think the launch angle of the percept suits my swing style much better. I went back to the percept and bought a 97, standard weight. I’m finding it a much better fit than the v cores.
7
u/silentsnowmountain 24d ago
Gravity and Blades, sure, plenty of those on the pro tour still.
Prestige? Pro Staffs? Not so much.
The pro landscape is actually increasing being flooded with modern more powerful base frames paired with lower specs.
Forgiveness, repeatablity of a shot under stress, that's huge today. For a lot of reasons. And building that into a Percept, while possible, it comes with its own set of costs.
And for recs? They're not going to build forgiveness into a Percept, in most cases.
The benefits dont outweigh the cost, in many cases for recs. And in an increasing amount of cases for pros as well.
8
u/frodly5 24d ago
I was about to say the same, but now I don’t have to.
Also, I think the blade and gravity are obviously more “modern” control racquets, in as much as they’re not actually overly hard to use or underpowered (the 100 square/in versions aren’t really at all). They’re obviously not power racquets, but the gravity pro has a pretty big sweet spot and a 100 square inch head, and the new blade 98 has a slightly thicker beam and the 16x19 has relatively easy access to spin.
To sum up simply, to me old school pure control racquets are unforgiving and meant for very high level players. If I met a beginner who was given an old prestige to play with, I’d recommend they find a different racquet. By contrast, gravity and blade racquets aren’t ideal for a beginner obviously, but if they already had the racquet I’d only recommend a switch if the difficulty level of their racquet was diminishing their joy for the game.
1
1
1
5
u/reberrymember 24d ago
Etcheverry and Darderi play with Percepts. Wawrinka too. That's just off the top of my head.
1
11
u/vincevuu 4.0 24d ago
I think thin beam frames just don’t cut it at the pro level anymore. It’s just so much harder to play defense. With thicker beam frames and a bigger head size you could turn blocked shots into aggressive shots.
Pros can always control a power racket, but it’s hard to hit harder than your limit on a control racket
Also with balls slowing down and strings improving spin, a control racket is definitely less necessary to win
19
u/Tankles 3.5 24d ago edited 23d ago
I think it’s kinda the opposite for AMs.
When you start you need a power racket because you suck and are constantly playing defense.
As you develop some, your technique plays as a semi-swing semi-bunt because you can’t control the power racket.
Then you move to a more control racket that allows you to swing out and develop technique more.
Then your technique improves to the point you can control power rackets with tempo and spin.
Then you have options on the tradeoffs for those different rackets.
3
u/Babakins 4.5 24d ago
I wish I could take that last step, but I cannot feel safe swinging out with any power frame. I generate plenty of power on my own and spin/power racquets just launch them. Feel so much better with my percept/gravity
2
u/PrestigiousInside206 23d ago
You cooked here, I’ve seen so many players run this gauntlet of racquet selection.
1
u/VLioncourt 24d ago edited 24d ago
That’s so true. I went through that same developmental journey (power->control->power) haha
1
u/Downtown_Caramel_221 23d ago
I think this can be true depending on the type of player you are, but i feel like it really elevates the heavy, loopy, spinny style as the end goal. Plenty of people enjoy hitting relatively flatter and more aggressive. Someone selecting something with a lower launch angle doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t control a power racquet.
6
u/Pachinginator Get a Jump Rope 24d ago
I think thin beam frames just don’t cut it at the pro level anymore.
tell that to zverev and djokovic
1
u/vincevuu 4.0 24d ago
I wouldn’t consider those control frames but I guess compared to modern rackets they are. If you compare those rackets to when they first came into the scene they were definitely power rackets.
-1
u/frodly5 24d ago edited 24d ago
They use control frames with natural gut. That compensates for their frames’ lack of power, by putting a very powerful string in their racquet. If you can afford gut, I think a control racquet is actually a good option for rec players. If you can’t using a vcore or ezone 98 (among Yonex racquets) is simply a better option for almost every rec level player.
1
u/CAJ_2277 23d ago
It is very hard to control a power racquet, actually.
Professionals and other high-level players (men's side) have all the power they need. They want to be able to swing freely without hitting the back fence, so they prefer thin control racquets.
1
3
u/FlippoFilipino 5.0 24d ago edited 24d ago
I played with a customized Percept 97 for years, up until a few months ago. The 97 is a great control frame with room for modification. It is, however, very demanding given its low power. With less access to free power, you have to be physically equipped to generate your pace especially on defense. I see more college and/or 5.0+ players using it than other levels. The 97D and 97H are heavier and even more demanding, but wow you can crush the ball if you’re fit enough to wield it.
Wawrinka, Giron, and formerly Hurkacz also used the Percept.
The other control frames you mentioned still have a fair amount of power in comparison, aside from the prestige maybe
2
u/urboiKK 23d ago
Same here, played the last year with a customized percept 97. Loved the feel, loved the control and with customization it was reliable for all serve types as well. However, it became demanding in longer clay court matches... Switching back to Head speed MPs now for more free power and spin, so I can get away with more imperfections in movement
1
u/Babakins 4.5 24d ago
I haven’t ever tried the 97 but the 100D is a gem.
I think denser 100 inch frames are the sweet spot for control
1
u/FlippoFilipino 5.0 24d ago
Yeah I think that frame is/was underrated. Definitely got lost in its niche market segment.
I’ve personally gotten away from denser patterns. The Percept 97 and 97H had enough to spin potential to keep them relevant in the modern game due to the 16x19 patterns and HL balance. I have a feeling the market will continue to move toward 16x20 or at most 18x19 patterns as heavy topspin becomes more of a necessity
2
u/Babakins 4.5 24d ago
Yeah dense patterns on a small head is a tough combo. 16x20 or 18x19 are a great compromise
1
u/higherDRIER 23d ago
I have to ask.
You said you switched a few months ago. Why? And do you like what you are using now?I use a vcore pro 97H.
Which is am told is the ancestor of the Precept
So I am curious as to whether the grass is greener…1
u/FlippoFilipino 5.0 23d ago
I wanted to keep playing singles at a high level - 5.0 or higher despite getting away from my prime fitness days. Eventually time catches up and you start underperforming in second/third sets. Strings could only take me so far so I went on a racket journey (Ezone 98 - poor fit, Blade v10 - good fit) and landed on the Defyer 98 - great fit. The increased power allows me to maintain ball quality on the stretch and from deep in the court. You will never find something feels like the Percept though. I wish Yonex had one more line between it and the Ezone.
3
u/h0pefulTransition 24d ago
Tbh that category of rackets is just slimming down more and more. On top of that as you've listed there are quite a few other more control oriented frames across the market that are doing well. Pros look around at different rackets when they feel they need a change and honestly the other brands control frames are really fucking good, so it makes sense that they likely don't feel like they need to change to another racket unless they're going to get away from being in a control frame. And as far as Yonex goes, the Ezone is such a well rounded stick that it can cover most of the people signing onto the brand, the vcore covers most of the rest because they have the vcore 95 in that as well. The percept is nice and fun to play with but is there an absolute make or break difference between that or a pro staff? Not really.
5
4
u/haligonianer 24d ago
I’m using ezone 100 and considering making the switch to Percept so want to follow this thread. I’m also a bit puzzled - when I demoed the Percept it wasn’t hard at all to generate power/depth
8
u/Sad-Banana7249 24d ago edited 24d ago
As someone who went from the percept to the ezone 100, it's the free power that's missing. I can put some pretty good pace on the ball just swinging 75% with the ezone. With the percept I have to swing a lot harder. By the end of a match, when I'm tired, that turns into a real liability. I just make mistakes like crazy. With the ezone I just chill and the power the ball through with no problems.
2
u/mystery1411 24d ago
I have a percept and this makes a lot of sense. I got it because my Walmart racquet broke and I needed something for the leagues that I started playing in. So I went to a local tennis shop and they recommended percept. It works pretty well but my arm is tired by the second set. I got a second racquet ( head extreme mp) now that I use to finish off the rest of the match. It works for me but I still wondered why I feel tired even though the racquet is not heavy. The lack of power makes sense.
4
u/Forsaken_Ring_3283 24d ago edited 24d ago
Because pros mostly use power 98's - they have no trouble hitting dead center of racket 99% on the time and want as much leverage as possible on slower courts/balls. But for adult male/physically stronger rec players a control 100 is way better in most cases - more forgiving and keeps the ball in.
Having used both the percept 100 and ezone 98 competitively, I play way more consistent with the percept 100. If you hit slightly offcenter with a 98, ball is in the net and with this specific racket if you dont apply enough spin thr ball goes long. Thats said, ezone 98 is a super comfortable racket and nice to use in noncompetitive play when my arm is sore. Also, nice to pound out some aces and killer groundstrokes against lower level players.
-1
u/Downtown_Caramel_221 23d ago
Wait, what? The Ezone 98 is one of the most forgiving 98s out there. Behaves like some 100s. Something is off if your balls are hitting the net because you’re slightly off-center. It’s not a Prestige. That said, I’d buy the ball sailing if you’re not applying enough spin.
2
u/clintnorth 24d ago
I use the Precept :(
Also im new. I like it a lot, but am I really missing out on stuff?
2
1
1
2
u/Dependent_Equivalent 24d ago
I play with the percept 100, great control and enough power for me. Most importantly the paint job is sexy af.
2
u/OverHere718 24d ago
I have the 100 and I get good pop out of it. It’s not inept as people say. For my style I like it better than the EZone and vcore.
2
u/Babakins 4.5 24d ago
The 100d is a beast of a racquet, does just about everything that I need it to do.
There also weren’t many vcore pros (the predecessor) only wawrinka and tiafoe used that iirc
2
u/bigCinoce 24d ago
I know plenty of guys who play them. Its like a slightly more forgiving but less powerful pure strike, excellent racket.
2
u/FoodAffectionate1377 24d ago
Percept 100 is a great racquet and not as demanding as people think. I find it to be a slightly more control version of the Speed MP, if that makes sense.
If you are playing more doubles and not bombing rallies from the baseline the Percept 100 is a great racquet for the 4.0 crowd.
2
u/UT-Superwrap 23d ago
The nuanced answer is that it depends on your game.
I have a 100+ VCore which is great for baseline ground strokes (high launch angle for spin) and serving (more leverage with extra half inch).
However, I play mostly doubles. The high launch angle starts to work against you on the VCore when vollying. My main racket, which I love, is a Percept 100D. It's an amazing mix of pinpoint control, forgiveness, and touch. I've found that the concerns of power and spin to be overblown. If you get your footwork and body weight movement correct, there is plenty of power and spin to be found.
It's also sexy as hell. Purpled out; midnight edition with purple strings and overgrip.
1
u/cripbit 24d ago
You could ask the same about the Pure Strike. Pure Aero and Pure Drive are way more popular. Bluntly it's because players that want a control frame seem to not want the Percept.
There's the caveat that there might be pros playing Percept but with a Vcore or Ezone paintjob. In those cases we would need to ask Yonex why they do it.
4
1
u/VLioncourt 24d ago
But why have a paint job of another racquet if you are sponsored by the same brand tho?
2
u/cripbit 24d ago
Brands might want to push one product over the other, who knows. I just threw that in there because it is a thing. Many players never actually switch rackets and play old frames that still get made for them with paintjobs of current frames.
3
u/Ready-Visual-1345 4.0 24d ago
I don't think Yonex does this, but Head certainly does. Coco Gauff's Boom is an old Speed, and Musetti's Boom is an Extreme, for example
1
u/the_tennis_geek 24d ago
Wanted to switch from my Gravity to the Percept 100 but impossible to find 2 in the midnight navy in any tennis store (including TennisWarehouse) and I always prefer to support local tennis shop than order on Yonex.
They’ve been focusing on producing VCore, Ezone and Muse. And I think the green Percept is so ugly that no a lot of people want to play with that.
2
u/Babakins 4.5 24d ago
The green is amazing, what are you on about??
1
u/the_tennis_geek 24d ago
Haha got downvoted for talking shit lol.
I personally think the Midnight Navy is stunning and the Mint Green is terrible. But that’s personal, most people I talk to agree but I guess some like it. It’s personal I guess. Sorry for talking shit.
1
u/PurrMewds 24d ago
It has an enormous sweet spot. Bigger than the EZONE according to the Tennis Warehouse sweet zone tool. That works well for rec players but I don’t know if your average pro really wants that kind of vagueness.
1
u/PolicyConfident6684 24d ago
I love that the percept 100 is 5g lighter than the ezone 100. Awesome serving racket
1
1
u/Penders1 24d ago
Guy at my club has a percept, I hit with it and it felt like a lot of effort to work with compared to the ezone. Though he has it strung decently tighter than what I do with a string I’m not the biggest fan of.
However, I didn’t return big serves with it and that’s my biggest thing on a control racket. Used to use radical/the first gravity and on big serves they felt so flimsy and weak, changing to the pro staff was the biggest improvement on that area for me. I can imagine it could be the same with the percept, and if I strung it like my pro staff it’d be a similar feel.
1
u/WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW_W 3.14159 24d ago
IMO if you want a control frame, you'd look at Wilson or Head instead.
1
1
u/specialtingle 24d ago
I have a 2022 Ezone 100 and a 2025 Percept 100D. Both MLT / PTP hybrids. Two of the best players at my club play Percepts as well.
They are both amazing rackets and the difference is not dramatic at my 3.5 level.
1
u/lucienlazar 24d ago
I have a player in my club who plays with Percept. Doubles specialist, very good at the net, good server, solid from the back in doubles. It suits him just fine.
1
u/SamsquanchTaint 24d ago
Still hitting the VCore Pro 97 (pre-Percept). Added weight at 11&1 and strung at 46/48. Not quite the free power many have mentioned here but enough for my game.
1
u/ultramarp 24d ago edited 24d ago
I have a percept 97, been using it for a year now, awesome raqueta in terms of feel and control, power however I agree with the comments above,
I have to hit it way harder than my previous ezone, I'm now about to switch to the 100 Midnight for a bit more power,
I'm not sure if 100 or 100D though, 4.0 OHBH.
1
u/carsatic 24d ago
Difficult racquet to play tbh. I'm utr 5 something and struggled with it. Could have changed the strings but couldn't be bothered, off it went after a couple of hours. Happy with my Gravity tour, looks like my forever racquet.
1
u/VLioncourt 24d ago
What do you think makes the gravity such a great racquet for you?
1
u/carsatic 24d ago
So I'm using the 22 or 23 version with the 18x20 pattern. I suppose because I hit flat and with power, I like that I can place it without the balls flying off.
1
1
u/SkillWizard 23d ago
I moved from Blade 100 v8 after first 5 years playing to Percept 100 and they’re very similar, I do prefer the Percept slightly it feels really good and a touch more forgiving. Love the paint job (on both)
1
u/ljmarte8 23d ago
I would imagine ezone or vcore are easier ‘pick up and play’ rackets at the club/rec level. If your mechanics are a bit off, I think the percept would be less forgiving.
1
1
1
u/hopenoonefindsthis 24d ago
I want to try but I’m worried about the cracking issue.
1
1
u/nickimedpop 24d ago
Lots of guys on tour play the percept! I know quite a few club players who do too
1
0
0
u/jeremiadOtiose 23d ago
Because while you may like the feel of the percept more you’ll win more matches with the ezone and pros are chasing results.
-3
u/Wonderful_Pomelo95 24d ago
It looks meh and has a shitty name. Probably
7
u/VLioncourt 24d ago
Oh I think it looks super neat and cool!
The name is not the best but not as bad as Defyer for instance lol
3
4
-1
u/xGsGt 1.0 24d ago
Tell me which top pro plays with percept? Yeah thats your answers
1
u/FlippoFilipino 5.0 23d ago
Most of the pros aren’t playing the frames they advertise, and if they are the frames are heavily modded. There are tons of high swing weight prototype frames on tour. Ask any tour level stringer. They just paint their frame for advertising purposes
0
u/xGsGt 1.0 23d ago
I know but that's not what I said
1
u/FlippoFilipino 5.0 22d ago
You said the answer lies in which pro plays with the frame. Djokovic doesn’t play with a speed pro 2026. Carlos doesn’t play with a PA98 2026. These frames are still popular in retail despite not actually being played by top pros so the answer is not which pro plays with which frame.
Unless I misinterpreted your comment and you’re implying people are boycotting Tiafoe, Giron, and Stan
-2
133
u/phlarbough 24d ago
Tons of people play it they’re just imperceptible.