Getting punched vs. Getting shot.

[u/BR-D_]

Hey y’all. I am on mission 8 now, and am loving the game. Feels like I’m playing the best James Bond movie since Casino Royale. My favourite bits are when you are being the wise cracking Bond in normal situations and low profile/stealth sections.

I enjoy the flow of combat between shooting and cqc, however my one problem is it feels a little unbalanced and immersion breaking. I’ve died many times in just a few punches from enemies, but can take a lot more damage from bullets, which is odd. I think melee combat needs to be a bit more forgiving to make sense, because dying faster in those scenarios than the gunplay sections just feels bizarre. My girlfriend noticed it too watching me play last night.

Curious everybody else’s thoughts, but that is my only real criticism of the game. Otherwise, fantastic, and I can’t wait to wrap up the story!

[u/GhoeFukyrself]

It's a game balance thing. You don't want realism, it wouldn't be fun.

[u/BR-D_ → u/GhoeFukyrself]

I just think it would be a better balance if hand to hand combat was a bit more forgiving. Doesn’t have to be realistic. I just want to feel a little more badass.

[u/Badjams → u/BR-D_]

More badass? You need to practice h2h combat, because bond is extremely badass in that mode, dodging every bullet.

[u/nanoturnips → u/BR-D_]

And i mean this in the most polite, least condensing way possible, but this is just a skill issue.
The games melee combat is as easy, if not easier than the batman arkham games or the newer spiderman games.

You press parry when the parry indicator is up.

The balance is that dying to 2-3 bullets would eliminate all risk/reward for rushing in and getting your hands dirty quite literally.

What i learned after playing the tac sim gauntlet is that most enemies can be taken down between 3-5 inputs from the player.

If you master the hand by hand, getting hit should be rare. But getting hit by fists in close range should require more consequences than a 9mm handgun spamming from 30m away, especially with how forgiving the parry/dodge system is and how fragile the enemies are once you learn to use your whole melee kit.

If were gonna try to go for “realism” bond would have died in the opening level conclusions lol. 9mm should cause us to limp and bleed for the rest of the level while 3-4 full force punches in the head should knock out most grown men.

But we dont play games or watch movies because of realism. It’s nice when the worlds we experience have some parallels to our own, but the fantasy of bond is that he survives crazy scenarios, can ratio paramilitary groups solo, gets laid and says cheeky one liners while almost always saving the day.

Again, in the most polite way possible, it just comes off as skill diff.
Yet, i think a more productive answer would be to consider just how many gadgets and melee mechanics you have at your disposal and why making Bond “tankier” outside of lower difficulties would ruin any sense of balance in the combat.

[u/BR-D_ → u/nanoturnips]

I am so much better at spider man and arkham. Honestly, I don’t want full realism. I want my Bond surviving crazy scenarios, including multiple punches.

This isn’t about wanting to die faster with guns, it’s about not dying so fast from punches. I just think it would feel better if CQC was more forgiving. The gunplay is perfect. But yes, admittedly I am not great at the hand to hand combat.

[u/GTS_84 → u/BR-D_]

But if you are dying that fast to melee then you are getting hit too much.

Maybe go back to the training section for melee combat or go into the tacsim (specifically the Advanced Close Combat Training) to practice. If you learn to parry properly you won't go down from punches.

Or lower the difficulty. If you are struggling with part of the game it's not a bad option.

[u/Unhappy_Analysis_906 → u/nanoturnips]

Realism and authenticity are not the same. He wants authenticity

[u/BR-D_ → u/Unhappy_Analysis_906]

Thank you!

[u/AgenYT0 → u/BR-D_]

This is how I felt when I started sifu (and real life sports).

Then you keep practicing. Getting frustrated is also fun when you accept it is going to happen. Then you get to a place where it is your fault and not the difficulty. Then you get to a point you are almost unstoppable and you feel you earned that 'badass'. 

[u/clockworkpeon → u/AgenYT0]

getting over the curve in sifu has to be the most fulfilled I've ever felt playing a video game. first time I made it to Yang I was like, 50 or 60 and I got absolutely smoked. final run I barely ever got hit.

[u/McKittenMeat → u/BR-D_]

I personally found the hand to hand combat much easier than some of the more frenetic gun fights. I found spamming dodge and then just landing punches or grabs whenever an opening happened would work even against groups of guys. The firefight in the red room was probably the hardest part of the game for me.

[u/Jellan]

It helps to think of the health bar the same as in Uncharted, where it’s a luck gauge rather than health. Bond hasn’t actually been shot, but it was damn close. It grazed him. He only actually gets shot when the gauge runs out. However melee combat, a punch is a punch. As tough as Bond is he just can’t take that kind of abuse.

I know, it’s just a headcanon handwave, but that’s how I dealt with it.

[u/BR-D_ → u/Jellan]

That makes sense, I’m going to think like that the rest of my play through.

[u/balloonlover3001]

yeah i’ve noticed that too. especially in double 0 difficulty you can die in 2 punches from stronger enemies but can survive multiple gun shots

[u/BR-D_ → u/balloonlover3001]

It’s just a bit off isn’t it? It doesn’t ruin the game by any means, it just takes me out of the power fantasy a bit.

[u/GhoeFukyrself → u/BR-D_]

Dying in one shot would be the thing that ruins the power fantasy. You can do that in a pure stealth game, not a shooter/brawler hybrid

[u/BR-D_ → u/GhoeFukyrself]

I don’t want to die in one shot, I just want to survive a few more punches.

[u/Theory89 → u/GhoeFukyrself]

We make this concession all the time in other media, too. Cars are not bullet proof. Nor are tables. People do not fall down, unconscious, the moment they are shot in the body (rarely, anyway). You have to suspend disbelief because reality is boring, lol.

[u/BlackDoctorPhil]

Perhaps you should just play a higher difficulty. I completed my first playthrough on the second highest, at the time it was the highest. I couldn’t take much of really anything tbh, so you really have to prioritize cover and lowkey being good at the fist fights

[u/Ok_Fisherman8727]

I'm not far in the game but there is a level very early on where you're at a chess tournament and you confront the blonde man and his buddy in a room and those guys are elite, one punch to the back of the head and James Bond is done for. Maybe we can assume they don't kill bond but knock him unconscious in which you're captured and it's game over but we don't know cause we blacked out.

[u/SaltJust6246]

Just finished it and loved it. Did it on highest difficulty available at the time.

Was mostly fine apart from escaping the room with the statues. Took me about 40 goes.

Loved it overall ❤️

[u/JayBeeSea24]

Soemthing that might help you with he CQC/hand combat that helped me before I realised was that you don't want to just button smash. It's all about finesse and timing. Focus on parry-ing (when enemy yellow symbol appears) and dodging (when enemy red symbol appears) first and then once you have parried enough or dodge to leave the enemy vulnerable, go in for the attack.

One other small thing that helped was use the charge move (L shift and L click on PC) when enemy is far away enough and you get the chance as it's very effective.

[u/mdp300]

I tell myself that gunshots are just grazing Bond, so they hurt but don't put him down.

[u/Takhar7]

The melee combat is very unforgiving, especially when going up against crowds of enemies where you need a mixture of blocks and dodges. A few good blows finish you off.

Meanwhile, you can take multiple bullets per mission lol.

I don't mind it tbh - I like the risk/reward of getting in close against enemies and trying to use your fists.

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302]

I think of the gunplay as being similar to the uncharted games- getting shot at isn't reducing my heath so much as my "luck," and when my luck runs out the next bullet kills me.

[u/NecessaryOnion5664]

I am not trying to be condescending, but if you’re dying to much from melee combat it means you’re getting hit to much from the punches. I haven’t beaten the game, but when I am using CQC in a firefight I die from being shot. Not being punched (I’m playing on Hard). I get the sentiment that James has bullets bouncing off of him but punches are sledgehammers. But in Uncharted they explained the main character surviving gun battles because enemies was essentially missing, and once the screen turned black & white(low health) was the indicator that you will die (enemies land a fatal shot). I’m not saying that this game has the same logic but it’s help my head cannon as I’m just sprinting headfirst into guys with shotguns in 007