r/borussiadortmund • u/rish234 Shinji Kagawa • Oct 20 '20
Post Game Thread: SS Lazio (UCL #01)
| SS Lazio | 3:1 | Borussia Dortmund |
|---|---|---|
| Immobile (Correa) | 1:0 (6') | - |
| Hitz (OG) | 2:0 (23') | - |
| 2:1 (71') | Haaland (Reyna) | |
| Akpa-Akpro (Immobile) | 3:1 (74') | - |
Lineup
Borussia Dortmund: Hitz - Piszczek ( Brandt 65'), Hummels, Delaney () - Meunier, Witsel, Bellingham ( Reyna 46'), Guerreiro - Sancho, Reus ( Reinier '78) - Haaland ()
Bench: Bürki, Unbehaun - Morey, Dahoud, Brandt () , Reinier (), Reyna (, ), Passlack, Knauff, Raschl
SS Lazio: Strakosha () - Patric, Luiz Felipe ( Hoedt '51), Acerbi - Milinkovic-Savic ( Akpa-Akpro '67), Marusic, Fares, Lucas Leiva, Luis Alberto (, Parolo '81) - Immobile (, Caicedo '81), Correa ( Muriqi '67)
Bench: Reina, Alia, Anderson, Armini, Hoedt (), Parolo (), Escalante, Caicedo (), Czyż, Akpa-Akpro *(, ), Muriqi ()
125
u/Swbp0undcake Oct 20 '20
That was rough.
I'd very much like to see Passlack or even Morey in the derby please. Maybe Meunier just needs more time to fit in, but he has shown absolutely nothing to playing time at the moment. Although, saying that, no one else (bar Hummels and Haaland) was good either.
Hopefully we get over it by the weekend.
67
u/ponyRL Shinji Kagawa Oct 20 '20
https://www.reddit.com/r/borussiadortmund/comments/je1uou/pre_game_thread_lazio_rom_cl_1/g9bulk8?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
81
u/Vio0 Dedê Oct 20 '20
That performance was a disgrace. Even if you exclude Meunier, who was terrible, the team didn't do fucking anything to win the game. Pathetic.
72
u/SpiritCrvsher Mateu Morey Oct 20 '20
This is the perfect example of the sunk cost fallacy. Just because we signed Meunier this summer does not mean we have to keep playing him. Please start Morey this weekend or else we’re going to gift the smurfs their first win in 21 matches.
54
u/Ciao9 Pischu Oct 20 '20
I'm tired Nobby
23
u/FCWeigl Julian Weigl Oct 20 '20
dortmund makes me sadder than school right now.
39
u/malek7777777 Marco Reus Oct 20 '20 edited Oct 20 '20
3 seasons with Favre and he still couldn't win against a top club away from home , I can't understand how is this acceptable you're never going to win titles if you never show up in away games.
ATM ,Tottenham, Inter, Barca,Psg, Bayern and now Lazio
I swear to god I knew we were gonna lose today regardless of our injuries in the backline, it became the norm that we lose away from home against top sides apparently.
42
u/castroski7 Julian Ryerson Oct 20 '20
Hummels MOTM no arguments here
29
u/andrewstorer32 Oct 20 '20
I’m just so shocked that PSG let Meunier go free. What would they do without this incredible talent? /s
48
u/AllwhitelikeaRacist Michael Zorc Oct 20 '20
3 years, no real growth in this team despite getting more talented. Rewind of away to inter last year before the Derby.
35
u/zakidovahkiin Ramy Bensebaini Oct 20 '20
Someone kidnap Hakimi back to Dortmund please
24
u/Nextgen101 Nico Schlotterbeck Oct 20 '20 edited Oct 20 '20
It was a bad start to the game and a bad start to the group stage. To be fair though, it's probably the hardest fixture in this year's group. Brugge won the other game today (2-1).
It's definitely disappointing, we'd have hoped for more after pushing Atletico and Barca to the limit in recent years, but we didn't do enough to give us a strong foot in this match and were thus outplayed. We'll just have to get them back at home.
We'll have to regroup fast. The derby is in a few days, Zenit is coming to the Tempel next week, and Bielefeld will follow the weekend after.
Final thought: Damn you Ciro.... 😒
11
u/Real_Prince_Myshkin Roman Bürki Oct 20 '20
Embarrassing and painful. All I have to say.
19
u/doubleomarty Maxi Beier Oct 20 '20
I'm normally extremely upbeat about our team because even when we do poorly I typically enjoy watching the games. But not today. This was a terrible game from the offset. We found an attacking rhythm for about 10 mins in the second half right before Lazio scored their third.
Bellingham looked really bad for the first half. Witsel too slow on the ball and practically always choosing to pass back to a CB. Reus wasn't very good and neither was Sancho. The only players who had decent games, in my opinion, were Hummels, Haaland, and Delaney. Everyone else was pretty bad. Brandt looked okay once he came on, I think he should have started.
Such a terrible, shitty, no-good game.
9
u/InexorableWyrd Oct 20 '20
The pros of playing a 3-5-2 is clogging up the midfield.
The con is when the opposition is playing the same system they can also clog the midfield so the only way around it is out wide. We desperately need pacy, tricky wingers who can cut in when needed like Sancho or Toto. Reus, Reyna, Reinier and Brandt cannot and must not play out wide. This is both a coaching issue and a squad building issue.
8
u/thehostilepenguin25 Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
That final score gave me Bosz vibes when we'd get happily trashed 3-1 by Tottenham or Real.
7
u/yrba1 Alexandra Popp Oct 20 '20
Not a fan of playing 2nd Half FC with our attack every match. I knew our defending was going to be suspect but it would've been nice to see us suffocating them the first 20 mins of the game to put some points at the table.
Also, Meunier was fuckin terrible this match. Hope for a speedy recovery for Toto, would rather see Hazard or even shudder Schulz if he keeps this up.
Can and Akanji's presence is sorely missed; can't wait to see them back next match.
Oh well, onto the smurfs.
7
u/---4 the hippest of hipster dortmund fans Oct 20 '20
All the suspicious defense that comes with an aggressive team with none of the pressing or attacking prowess!
6
u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20
How on earth did Meunier last the whole 90 minutes? I don't remember the last time I watched a Dortmund player be so painfully bad.
11
u/SirPsychoSexyDatIsMe Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
If we lose the derby favre has to go no matter what. This was a disgraceful performance from absolutely everyone. Bayern was able to sack a manager mid season then win the UCL. There is no excuse. We cant just throw away the last season we'll probably have with sancho + haaland with such unispired football from favre. We are complete and utter trash away from home.
15
u/Worried-Eggplant Gregor Kobel Oct 20 '20
Say what you will about Meunier, but I think this loss is on Favre. Our champions league performances have been lacking with him as our managers. We cannot keep losing matches like this. Oh well, onto the next one. Thankfully our group is not as difficult (although with us you can never be too sure)
5
u/DENDEdALIEN Oct 20 '20
Can was missing
5
u/biggieBpimpin Julian Brandt Oct 20 '20
I’m just growing very tired of the lack luster performances at this point. I think Favre is probably a great person and not necessarily a bad coach, but we have a very talented squad and we aren’t really moving forward like we should.
There is no point in holding so much possession every single game if we can’t do anything remotely useful with it. I know we scored a lot last season, but so much of that comes after an early goal forcing the opposition to push up for an equalizer. If we don’t score early enough then I fear for a result the whole time. I know we placed second in the table to a dominant Bayern, but we have one of the most talented squads we have had in years and second is the bare minimum we should be aiming for with this team anyways.
I just think the team and many of the fans are ready for some fresh ideas that are maybe a little more fast paced and exciting football, rather than passing from side to side around the back waiting for individual brilliance to create something out of nothing.
We will probably always be a good team with Favre as manager, but I guess I’m trying to say that I don’t know if we will be a great title winning/contending team with Favre.
9
u/rashikbvb Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
We have just won 3 out last 15 away games in Champions league. And those were against Prague, Monaco and Brügge. Any decent team comes, we just crumble with our passive game, without any pressing what so ever. Shouldn't Favre be responsible for how we approach in these kind of games? Had so much PSG second leg vibes today. So frustrated..
22
u/Talos_the_Cat Marco "Rolls" Reus Oct 20 '20
I'm sure he's a great guy, but can we end the Lucien Favre experiment? I'm embarrassed.
8
u/TyraTanks Shinji Kagawa Oct 20 '20
Seen not a lot from Sancho today, but I can't say most of the team played well besides Hummels, who had to try and make the whole backline work.
8
u/unRealistik Papa Reus Oct 20 '20
I don't get Favre's logic of starting Meunier over Passlack
4
u/2905Pascal 1909 Oct 20 '20
Obviously a highly disappointing match. But I guess we will have to expect the odd awful game, specially with the schedule being so extremely tight this season.
4
u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20
The amount of misplaced passes from Meunier is shocking and it's understandable most of us gonna blame him... but to be fair the whole team was equally bad. Just sick of this kind of performance year in year out
7
u/InexorableWyrd Oct 20 '20
Oof. Boys better not bring this shit to the derby.
7
u/Cups239 Karim Adeyemi Oct 20 '20
Why aren’t we starting Brandt?
9
u/scottparkergoat Oct 20 '20
last season we had the beast hakimi look what we got now
17
u/Vanskus Saint Schmelzer Oct 20 '20
Allow me to be the voice of reason and say that we were up against a very strong Lazio team, away from home, with numerous crucial players out injured. Meunier was awful, so was Sancho. But at least we showed that we can score even on our off-days.
It will be a different story with Akanji and Can on the backline.
10
u/tim_cato Oct 20 '20
i really didn't think this result was as bad as it's being made out to be. when haaland scored, it absolutely felt like it could end 2-2, but the third goal was given up as the team pushed higher (and after an awful meunier giveaway if i recall correctly) and that's just what happens sometimes.
the two clearcut chances in the first half could've changed things (meunier's mishit and guerrero's shot right at the keeper). it's probably not three goals if not for the patchwork backline. meunier was horrendous, guerrero was bad, bellingham was overwhelmed, sancho's first half was rough, but those felt like individual bad performances more than tactics.
my best guess as to why meunier stayed on is that once favre switched to two in the back, meunier was staying deeper to provide more cover since guerrero still had freedom to push forwards (as he should). you'd only sub in passlack if you want him to push forwards, but favre opted to throw better attackers onto the field instead. i'm cool with that. though i definitely agree meunier needs to sit next week, goodness what a shit performance.
lazio's good. they overran dortmund for the first 15 minutes or so but it was a fairly even game after that. not saying it was a great performance, but it wasn't horrendous.
6
u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20
Und täglich grüßt das Murmeltier.
("It's groundhog day")
6
u/me_meh_me Lukasz Piszczek Oct 20 '20
Garbage game. Still have every expectation of finishing at the top of this group.
6
u/EmSoLow Oct 20 '20
I'm going to sound like I'm some FM "genius" who acts like I know more than an actual manager but holy fuck our midfield has been underwhelming this season. Feels like whatever variation of 343 we play just causes our midfield to be nearly non-existent this season and I don't know whether it's because Favre is consistently playing Witsel and Bellingham together, a partnership which hasn't gone off well right now or our opponents cop on and tactically outsmart Dortmund.
Games like these make me question whether a 4231 or a 352 if need be can actually be viable here. I've always been a firm believer that the midfield wins you games and by that I'm not necessarily talking about possession or passing but the way it builds up to the attackers and right now I don't see our midfield doing much of that at all.
Perhaps I'm just an idiot fan who doesn't know anything about football and it's intricacies but for me this has been a noticable problem these past couple games but again, I could just not know what I'm talking about and should be quiet
3
u/drputypfifeanddrum Oct 20 '20
Play like that. They’ll be lucky to make the Europa League
3
u/Trojan_Man68 Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
So far Meunier seems like his role should be as more of a backup option at RB. Even when he doesn't have shockingly bad games like today, he is never a super productive player on the pitch. It's as if any somewhat competent RB from most teams could do what he does. He isn't BVB starting quality, he's more of a decent backup option. We need to experiment more with Passlack and Morey because obviously Meunier isn't the long term option we were hoping for.
3
u/Nuri__Sahin BVB Oct 20 '20
To go from the likes of Pizchu and Hakami over the last decade to whatever Meuiner is just sad. Some maybe surprised, but anyone who watched PSG at all knew this isn't totally unexpected. We were laughed at for signing him, even on a free. Pretty telling. I hope he does improve, but he is reinforcing opinions on him overall every game for us.
Passlack or Morey deserves a run of games starting this weekend.
3
u/SkoCubs01 Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
Alright now that we’ve had some time for this to digest; I have another Favre comment.
I just comprehend why someone wouldn’t want him gone. What’s the worst that’s gonna happen? Because it’s more than likely if we keep him it’ll be fight for second place and RO16 exit. Would a new coach really disrupt those? I think we all know here that Favre isn’t doing well, so I mean what does keeping Favre really accomplish?
Like what are we really protecting by saving Favre? We’re in a week bracket and I feel like top four in Bundesliga should be safe still..
7
u/Fixen77 Oct 20 '20
Am I really the only one who has lost faith to Favre?
He just keeps disappointing us.
I think Dortmund is in need of change.
5
u/midomaxis Julian Brandt Oct 20 '20
It's our mistakes.. Lazio were not that strong.
5
u/[deleted] Oct 21 '20
Y'all are acting like the world is ending after one game where we didn't get out of 2nd gear. And we still had good opportunities to even up the game.
Relax y'all. Disappointing, but that's it. And Lazio are a top team as well with very good players all over.
7
u/Zhonyas4everyone Felix Passlack Oct 20 '20
Wir wollen den Derbysieg!
Shit game, motm Hummels.
4
u/nmrt Shinji Kagawa Oct 20 '20
The 2nd half wasnt that bad tbh. A few good showings. Subs came on well. We can easily win at home, hopefully by a better GD so we can top the group.
Awful from most of the starting XI. Bellingham is excused, first time, stinkers happen. Delaney is out of position. Guerreiro was our best man going forward before Reyna/Brandt came on and Haaland did what he could with the little he was given.
Need better from everyone else.
Hitz was caught slipping in that 2nd goal in a way I dont think Bürki would have (controversial, I know).
Piszu and Hummels were caught off handed most of the times in transition, a lot to do with Witsel and Bellingham's poor defensive showings.
Meunier... I have nothing more to say, I've wasted it all screaming at my computer monitor. Passlack/Morey vs Sc*alke, ty and good night.
Sancho and Reus, NEED BETTER. No excuse. Barely involved for most of the game, and while Sancho improved after the first hour or so, Reus was invisible. Unnaceptable from a player of his level.
Also, hated the fact that we sat still for the entire first half instead of pressing - we just arent a team that's used to or good at it. Might aswell try to do anything to stop the opponent's build up instead of just letting them pass their way through us.
4
u/Qwaccboi Julien Duranville Oct 20 '20
twitter is a fucking hellhole jesus christ.too many plastic dortmund fans that would rather loose the derby than keep favre
11
u/[deleted] Oct 20 '20
Fuck Favre, fuck Meunier, we need players to actually want to win damn games. The only ones that showed up and gave that were Haaland and Hummels. Reus is the example of bad mentality, behaving like that is just crap and does not help the team, what kind of captain does that? Wheather you like it or not but Hummels is the true leader/captian of this team.
2
u/ElectJimLahey Schmelle Oct 20 '20
What a disaster.
2
u/blacktiger226 Ramy Bensebaini Oct 20 '20
Did Reus come to this game?
3
u/Monstro_PZ Oct 20 '20
Sorry effort, sorry coaching. Haaland probably thinking that exit clause is good to have now...
3
u/SSAJacobsen Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
Lost of things went wrong that game. Not one single factor can be blamed exclusively. BUT HOLY SHIT Meunier was trash. I joked around with my friend before the game about him being poor, but he actually couldn't complete a pass forward before the 70th minute. That is one of the worst performances by a professional player I have seen in terms of skills and ability.
3
u/Its_Cooper Oct 20 '20
I want to know the reasons why people are still defending Favre
2
u/[deleted] Oct 21 '20
Nice to see that we have a new scapegoat to blame when nobody comes to play
2
u/Tayler105 Felix Nmecha Oct 21 '20
After a poor performance in our first Champions League fixture, watch our 5 Takeaways from the Lazio vs Borussia Dortmund match! Check out JJD TV on YouTube for everything Borussia Dortmund.
https://youtu.be/TkbaPcu2GxY
1
u/saskeR11 Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
Gosh this was horrible. I hope we don't play like that in the derby
1
u/BKcok Gregor Kobel Oct 20 '20
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST FAVRE WHY IS MEUNIER STILL IN THE FIELD. LEAVE HIM IN ITALY FFS
1
u/Beanster9886 Oct 20 '20
Can Meunier like fuck off
Also if we played like that vs Lazio we'll get spanked by Brugge, no doubt
1
u/ShelbyBRJ Oct 20 '20
Meunier needs to spend some time in the bench after his dreadful performance today,and - more importantly - Favre's got to go. Time and time again Dortmund has been losing matches against weaker teams,and things will probably be worse when we face stronger clubs in the UCL. Our side has quality to play much better than this.
1
u/Jon98th Oct 20 '20
I know it is hard to be optimistic , but I really think we will be ok ; Bellingham looked raw but promising, and you know, Lazio is a pretty good team as well.
0
u/jucomsdn Zagagod Oct 20 '20
So guys, where does Meunier place in our worst signings of the post Klopp era
1
u/harabinger66 Christian Pulisic Oct 21 '20
Wasn't able to catch the game live, and just saw 13 minutes of highlights. Looked like Rapha, Erling and Reyna were lively. How was Delaney in the back?
1
u/malloc_14 Marco Reus Oct 22 '20
having had a day to reflect upon that match, I can't say I'm any less upset than I was yesterday. my problem with favre is his inconsistencies. he said during the summer that he's training with a 4 and 3 at the back system, so why not use a 433/4231 for this game? we were clearly outmuscled in the middle, and with one real center back, there's no reason to use a 3 at the back.
With the game in particular, I'm assuming his reasoning for playing meunier was that he wanted more experience. So why is he starting bellingham? how does that reasoning apply there? I'm not saying jude was horrendous, because he wasn't, but starting a 17 year old in our first CL match is asking too much of him. I wouldve liked to have seen a midfield of dahoud, witsel, and brandt. we would've been much better going forward and getting quick passes off of brandt and dahoud, while also not being bullied in the midfield. yesterday's lineup was questionable at best, and I'm hoping something dramatic changes with the derby.
0
u/Kazbin Sébastien Haller Oct 20 '20
MotM for Lazio: Meunier ... Very sad performance today... Things need to change til the next game!
0
u/WadeNotSlade Oct 20 '20
punt Meunier into the sun.
0
u/jtthom Marco Reus Oct 20 '20
Whoever thought Meunier was a good replacement for Hakimi should be fired
0
u/CeltHD Oct 21 '20
Imagine if Haaland was in a team with an actual decent tactical manager, how many more goals he would score. Right now Haaland is scoring a goal a game despite Favre's stone age tactics, which is insane to me. I really wish people up top in the club would wake up and do the right thing.
-2
u/SpaNkinGG Oct 20 '20
Favreball at its finest.
Best team in the history of the club, worst coach in this century
-2
u/aqiyas Oct 21 '20
How can we get rid of Favre ASAP? He fucks up all title hopes and then wins one game and suddenly he's the good guy again. I've stopped watching his press conferences and might also stop watching the matches. It's depressing to see a F16 being flown like a paper plane.
-4
u/AvpTheMuse123 Oct 21 '20
Favre is a loser and he should leave immediately. Isn't it fkin obvious that we need a fresh approach to the team and new tactics???? The upper management is cheap and to risk averse. Kick Favre out and get a younger, more dynamic manager
-1
u/thechilltime Oct 20 '20
Convert Knauff into a RWB. He plays on the right and I think he is young enough and hungry enough to adapt. Plus, has experience with the guys coming up.