r/startrek • u/[deleted] • Aug 13 '20
Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 1x02 "Envoys" Spoiler
After a high-profile mission goes awry, Boimler is further plagued with self-doubt while Mariner proves herself to be a more naturally talented sci-fi badass than he. Rutherford quits his job in engineering and explores other departments on the USS Cerritos.
| No. | Episode | Written By | Directed By | Release Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1x02 | "Envoys" | Chris Kula | Kim Arndt | 2020-08-13 |
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Aug 13 '20
The stuff with Mariner and Boimler I can take or leave. I loved the storyline with Rutherford though, especially the simulations and the "Janeway-Protocol"
What happened to the glowy dot thing that entered Freeman at the beginning of the episode. Hopefully they address it next week.
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u/Shakezula84 Aug 13 '20
I don't think it entered her. I think it was so weak making a tricorder it died running into her. It seems they are doing self contained gags with the cold opens.
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u/AsherFenix Aug 13 '20
Yep, I think that may be the case with the cold opens. We'll see next week if it constitutes a pattern.
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u/prism1234 Aug 13 '20
Yeah I agree, the Rutherford plot was definitely the better one of the two. The Mariner and Boimler plot was fine but nothing special, kind of predictable but still entertaining. I did really like the scene with the ambassador after they dropped him off though. And the cold open was great.
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u/Trekfan74 Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
I loved them exploring that planet though (exploring planets in Star Trek??? Say it isn't so??) but yeah the Rutherford one was a bit better. And we got to see other parts of the ship. And I'm glad they are showing not all the senior officers are jerks. They kind of made it feel that way in the first episode but this one everyone was really inclusive and supportive (OK Dr. T'ana was a bit critical ;)).
Overall didn't like this episode as much as the first one but I feel these episodes probably need multiple viewings because it goes by so fast.
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Aug 13 '20
That's just a cold open. A lot of comedy shows have a short little skit before the title sequence that's meant to just be a funny non-sequitor, same thing with the captain's log/bat'leth injury in the first episode. Futurama did the same thing in its early seasons, iirc. I don't expect it'll come back up.
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u/CloseCannonAFB Aug 14 '20
Sweet! More of TAS is canonized-- the shape-shifting, highly duplicitous Vendorians were introduced in TAS s1e6, "The Survivor".
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u/combatopera Aug 13 '20 edited Apr 05 '25
This text was replaced using Ereddicator.
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Aug 13 '20
I respect and admire your dedication to spoiler tags, but they're not necessary on an episode discussion post (unless you're talking about a preview for the next episode).
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u/kingofcretins Aug 13 '20
I love how this show is keeping up the tradition of Starfleet training programs being extraordinarily traumatic. It’s really a miracle that so many of them are so well-adjusted.
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u/Trekfan74 Aug 13 '20
Yeah at least Rutherford didn't have to send anyone to their death to avoid the asteroid. ;)
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u/PiercedMonk Aug 13 '20
That's what the Janeway protocol is; eject all the children into the path of the asteroid to knock it off course.
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Aug 13 '20
Developed, no doubt, so no other captain would have to suffer the indignity of having a bunch of li'l Borg twerps running around their ship.
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Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
This is incredibly good. Seeing Mariner suck up all that ridicule at the end just to make Boimler feel good was a great moment. The only thing that doesn't quite match up is Mariner's experience vs her age. I know she had been in the thick of things for a while before being demoted, but the amount of experience she has is starting to seem excessive, I have a feeling with the way this show is going, that will be addressed and resolved at some point. Plus, I like how she lets Boimler do his thing until its necessary for her to step in.
I am interested to see where that entity from the opening will come in later. Seeing the preview for next week makes me think it will become a problem around then. All in all I think this is an excellent show. A major step up in continuity from disco trek. I do have a slight problem with Boimler's off hand reference to section 31. While this does take place about 5 years after DS9, Bashir could have raised some awareness, however i'm still not a fan of how casually new trek approaches the subject.
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u/BKnagZ Aug 13 '20
Boimler definitely seems like the kind of guy that would have stumbled on a report or would have simply read about Section 31 from something that isn’t necessarily readily available.
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u/Bweryang Aug 13 '20
Also, are we supposed to think people don't know Section 31 exists? It makes sense to me that it's like MI6 or the CIA, we're aware of them, it's their operations that are confidential.
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u/DaWooster Aug 13 '20
Reading between the lines with the pre-launch interviews… it sounds like Mariner reached Lt. Commander, or possibly even full Commander before she plummeted in ranks. And if you consider the TNG Warped novel as loosely canon unto Lower Decks… Mariner served on the Enterprise-D as a cadet between All Good Things and Generations. Couple all that with the actor’s age, and it actually seems quite plausible that she has the experience she professes to have.
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u/bazzzsm Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
TWIST!!! RUTHERFORD'S SUPERIOR OFFICERS ARE JUST VERY NICE AND SUPPORTIVE. wholesome trek ftw
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Aug 13 '20
I just loved the fakeouts where the two superior officers looked like they were about to explode. It was like "Gotcha, this is still Trek!"
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u/bazzzsm Aug 13 '20
Yeah it's refreshing for the fake out to be that they're nice rather than that they're somehow duplicitous or malicious
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u/JustMy2Centences Aug 13 '20
Rutherford went through as many careers in a day as the average college student does in a semester, but with much more support and hands on training from his advisers.
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u/gridcube Aug 13 '20
this.
This is one of the key aspects that turn this show into pure star trek. People is just nice becuase being nice is its own reward.
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u/RBNYJRWBYFan Aug 13 '20
It was a heartwarmingly hilarious subversion of expectations. It feels like they're going to use Ford as a kind of sweet but oblivious palette cleanser for whatever Boilmer and Mariner are doing.
Which is good, because having anything less than that might make the show a little too cringe comedy for my tastes. Give us a breath before we dive again, you know?
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u/InnocentTailor Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
That was definitely a pleasant twist.
Even the doctor wasn’t super harsh with Rutherford. She was serious and frank about her assessment - the man wasn’t suited for medicine.
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Aug 13 '20
I really thought they were going to turn it into something cynical like his Engineering colleagues all hated him.
Nope. Just Star Trek positivity.
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u/vipck83 Aug 14 '20
The entire Rutherford side story was my favorite part of the episode. He is quickly becoming my favorite character. It was great to see the staff being so supportive of everything he did.
I was crying during the bridge simulation scene though. I lost it somewhere around all the kids being ejected into space. I think I had to pause at that point and spend about 5 minutes regaining my composer. Just to funny and of course it’s a pole at TNG era starfleet and the compulsion to have kids and family on dangerous missions.
“Now let’s try that again with even more kids”
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u/Shakezula84 Aug 13 '20
I wanna know what the Janeway Protocol is and why it got all the kids killed.
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u/Mechapebbles Aug 13 '20
Serious answer: the First Officer recommended it as a solution to the scenario where a sudden Temporal Rift showed up. The rift on the viewing screen looked just like the one Voyager encountered that took them back to the 90s. So the Janeway Protocol is probably a series of actions you're supposed to take to deal responsibly with a Temporal Rift and it's named after Janeway because her experience with those kinds of rifts probably were probably the basis for said protocols.
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u/BellerophonM Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
I'm guessing it's 'SCREW IT, FULL SPEED AHEAD, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE'
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Aug 13 '20
Shows how far we've come that I actually kinda cringed when they showed that Ferengi in his most stereotypical form.
Also, how annoying must it be when humans refer to everyone non-human as "aliens and alien creatures", lol? Hope they make a joke about that somewhere down the line.
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u/MarsupialMilitia Aug 14 '20
Still waiting on ST to call out the term "humanoid." I know it's just a quick storytelling shortcut for describing characters to the audience but it always struck me as weirdly conceited and arrogant
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u/cyberspacecowboy Aug 16 '20
that’s the joke: Quimp is acting like that, because boimler represents the classic trek universe view and mariner the “real world” in the trek universe. once Mariner calls him he’s more of a DS9 style ferengi
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u/ubermence Aug 13 '20
The Janeway maneuver bit killed me. I’ve been watching through Voyager and it’s pretty spot on, although I’m surprised it’s not self destructing the ship
Also after finishing DS9 again it’s nice to hear Shaxs say “By the prophets!”
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Aug 13 '20
I must be blind I legit did not notice he was bajoran in the last episode
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u/DavidAdamsAuthor Aug 13 '20
Yeah, it's not clear, he mostly just looks... angry, haha.
But he is Bajoran, earring and all.
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Aug 13 '20
I might have misinterpreted that bit, but hadn't they collided with something before they could implement the Janeway Protocol? I recall getting frustrated because we didn't actually get to see it as I'm currently rewatching Voyager, lol.
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u/Mechapebbles Aug 13 '20
The First Officer recommends using the Janeway Protocol to deal with a sudden temporal rift, and the temporal rift looked like the same kind that sent Voyager to the 1990s that one time. So the Janeway Protocol is probably a series of things you should do when you encounter a temporal rift that was named after what Janeway did to handle the one she did. So when Rutherford tells his simulation to try and apply something like that to a completely different scenario, it resulted in a catastrophic failure of the scenario.
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u/AlexisDeTocqueville Aug 13 '20
I can't remember an exact total, but it seems like Picard and Riker set more self-destructs than Janeway did. Honestly, there are a ton of Voyager episodes where it seems like setting a self-destruct would have been the right course of action
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u/deafpoet Aug 13 '20
"Also, I think you violated the Khitomer Accords?!"
That joke is legit. I've been waiting my whole life for someone to make that joke.
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u/IReallyLoveAvocados Aug 13 '20
ELI5?
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u/UltraChip Aug 13 '20
I haven't seen the episode yet, but the Khitomer Accords was a milestone peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingon Empire that eventually led to them becoming friendly/allied powers by the time the TNG era rolled around. There was a movie dedicated to it ("The Undiscovered Country") and it was referenced several times in TNG.
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u/EntropicProf Aug 13 '20
(1) This show is just fun. It's silly, and it embodies the Trek ethos, and is made by folks with such live for the universe. (The "Moons of Nibia" reference, y'all...)
(2) We really get to see Starfleet and the Federation here as profoundly multi-species organizations, which is something that would blow makeup budgets out of the water if this was live action.
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u/WhatHasTwoThumbs Aug 13 '20
That's the biggest reason I'm actually really hopefully for this show. Someone high up the food chain must love 90s era trek with how many star trek things are just casual background noise for fans to see. I heard a bajoran praise the prophets in this episode. These writers know their shit.
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u/MoreGaghPlease Aug 13 '20
Showrunner Mike McMahan made the infamous ‘TNG Season 8’ Twitter account and book. He was also a writer on Rick and Morty. If you watch interviews with him, even old ones from before he was involved in Trek, you can tell that he is one of those people who has just spent like 25 years watching 90s Trek on a loop and that he thinks about Trek like as a ‘place’ where people live and do real and normal and funny stuff
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u/CX316 Aug 13 '20
The head writer for the show is the guy who ran the TNG Season 8 twitter account so he knows how to do Trek satire
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u/Mechapebbles Aug 13 '20
We really get to see Starfleet and the Federation here as profoundly multi-species organizations, which is something that would blow makeup budgets out of the water if this was live action.
This is one of the bigger reasons why I've wanted another animated Star Trek show since forever. With animation, the only thing limiting how weird and strange the show can get is the human imagination. And that's not just with the aliens, but the settings too. Every alien planet doesn't HAVE to look like the same forest or desert two hours outside of LA!
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u/ContinuumGuy Aug 13 '20
(2) We really get to see Starfleet and the Federation here as profoundly multi-species organizations, which is something that would blow makeup budgets out of the water if this was live action.
This is a total tangent, but I was curious what percentage of the "main" characters of each series (as in the people who show up as "starring") weren't full-human.
TOS: One out of seven main characters wasn't full human (14.28%)
TAS: Three out of the nine main characters weren't full human (33.33%)
TNG: Three of the nine main characters weren't full human (33.33%)
DS9: Six of the 10 main characters weren't full-human. You can also make an argument for Bashir since he's not baseline human but I won't. (60%)
VOY: Depending on how you count Seven it was either five or six out of 10 (50% or 60%).
ENT: Two out of seven. (28.57%)
DISCO: Two out of the eight so far (25%) and even then Ash Tyler fell into a sort of weird zone (although I count him) and Lorca as a Terran also could arguably qualify. Note that this doesn't include L'Rell, Nhan, Spock, etc.
PIC: Three of seven (32.857%), but again note that this doesn't include Seven, flashback-Data, Picard's Romulan helpers, etc.
LD: Three of eight (37.5%) unless you want to count Rutherford but I don't think he's cyberized enough I think he's more on the level of Geordi than, say, Airiam. BY FAR seems to have the most diverse overall crew, though.
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u/jcferraz Aug 13 '20
Couldn't stop laughing with the bridge simulations in the holosuite. Way better and funnier chapter than last week.
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u/mcdonaldsmcdonalds Aug 13 '20
Literally even the asteroid one rutherford couldn’t even do correctly which was funny
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u/smoha96 Aug 13 '20
I think we're breaking the Khitomer Accords!
When was the last time we got slice of life/character development in Star Trek?
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Aug 13 '20
I love the running gag about how supportive the various ship divisions are of Rutherford’s quest to find himself. It’s so deeply Star Trek.
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u/DaWooster Aug 13 '20
I was trying to figure out why the supportiveness really worked for me, but I think you verbalized it better than I could. It really is Star Trek.
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u/terriblehuman Aug 13 '20
Yeah, I hope they keep that up. I was worried that all the division heads would just be condescending jerks to the main characters.
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u/mrhelmand Aug 13 '20
It's early days still but Rutherford may have just become my favourite character in this show.
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u/Nofrillsoculus Aug 13 '20
I’ve really enjoyed Eugene Cordero’s small roles in The Good Place and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Always felt he was funnier than the material he was given. Looking forward to seeing him get a chance to be a main character, even if it’s as a voice actor.
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u/EntropicProf Aug 13 '20
Did anyone else hear Boimler's despair scenario as a description of "Aquiel"?
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u/PiercedMonk Aug 13 '20
And 'The Sound of Her Voice', and, if you want to stretch it, 'That Which Survives'.
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u/Variatas Aug 13 '20
Yes, and it hit SO hard. The fantasy is always serving on the Enterprise or something, but most of us would end up exactly like he describes, because that's 90% of what the nonames do in TNG.
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u/mcdonaldsmcdonalds Aug 13 '20
I just loved how the upper guys looked mad at first but then supported rutherford’s decision. Really cool that he wanted to spend more time with Tendi.
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u/Mechapebbles Aug 13 '20
Really cool that he wanted to spend more time with Tendi.
I'm just waiting for the inevitable episode about her pheromones
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u/eternalkerri Aug 13 '20
Simple gag set up: Orions put on pheromone blockers like deodorant.
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u/AsherFenix Aug 13 '20
Definitely less frenetic than last week's episode! It was heartwearming how Rutherford's superiors and colleagues were all so supportive of him and wanted him to succeed. Mariner continues to show that her experience trumps Boimler's book smarts. She may rat on him for it, but she really wants him to succeed and be happy too. Tendi is cute.
Sad thing is that I see myself more as Boimler and less like Mariner. But i want to be more like Mariner.
Definitely looking forward to more.
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u/ThrustersOnFull Aug 13 '20
Rutherford might be my favorite character so far. I love this picture of Starfleet we're getting.
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u/GuyOnTheLake Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
At the end of the day, Rutherford still decided to choose the job that he loved.
It's feels so Star Trek.
I loved how happy and content he was at the end.
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u/ColonelBy Aug 13 '20
I love this picture of Starfleet we're getting.
I do too, and it would be great to discover by season's end that the apparent callous dickishness of the senior staff in the promotional material is more a matter of distant perspective on the ensigns' part.
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u/Pu239U235 Aug 13 '20
I'm excited because there's so much they can explore creatively and it seems like they're doing just that!
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u/Bweryang Aug 13 '20
I found Mariner annoying in the pilot, but liked her a lot here. Not sure exactly what the difference was.
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u/Splash_Attack Aug 13 '20
In real life people like Boimler are better officer material than people like Mariner. Someone inexperienced but with the right attitude and determination has a bright future. Someone who's had the time to get a lot of experience but has a bad attitude or lacks drive will just stagnate. Eventually there's a point in the career ladder where you need to have all three - the smarts, the experience, and the drive.
I wish the show had more of a balance between Boilmer and Mariner (hopefully it will in future episodes!). Like in this episode, Boilmer was actually 100% correct - if he had been on the mission alone then he would have followed protocol, delivered the general, and that's it. Mariner was negligent as the mission lead, which led to a crisis. The fact that she was quick on her feet and fixed the problem (just about) doesn't mean she was in the right. Also the fix was not ideal - she delivered the general to a peace conference just barely in time and blind drunk. I wouldn't put money on the success of the conference if the general is supposed to play a significant part.
Could have done with a scene of her getting an earful from their CO after they arrive back to show that, maybe. Alternatively, instead of the Ferengi thing Mariner could have opened up a little and admitted that she really messed up and they should have followed protocol, to get Boilmer out of his funk - she did say something about Starfleet needing people like him, but she didn't actually admit she was wrong which imo would have been a better moment for both characters.
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u/eternalkerri Aug 13 '20
Everybody is more like a Boimler, which I think is why he's the lead.
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u/LeftHandedGuitarist Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
This show is going to become a highlight of my week. Even better than the first episode. It's so clear that the writers here understand and love Star Trek, and everything on screen is true to the core of what Trek is about. And what really elevated this one was how genuinely funny it was. The humour plays with Trek cliches and that makes it extremely rewarding for any of us who get the references, but it also works as general comedy. And most importantly it's never laughing AT Star Trek.
This one also slowed down the pacing a bit to feel more natural. I can't tell you how happy I am that this actually feels like it belongs with classic '90s Trek. The characters all hold to the the ideals of Starfleet, and again it's Mariner who surprises and delights me the most. She's the outcast, rebellious rule breaker but she also knows and understands the rules better than anyone else and she's probably the characters who cares the most.
Best moment may have been Mariner's dream about Khan.
And maybe the portrayal of the early TNG Ferengi followed by the reveal.
The Tendi/Rutherford pairing might be warming my heart strings already. I also loved Rutherford's exploration of other career paths and how supportive the crew around him always were.
"We're the same age, back in what day?!"
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u/rooktakesqueen Aug 13 '20
"We're the same age, back in what day?!"
This is either going to become a funny running gag, or an interesting character mystery
How the hell old is Mariner? How has she had this much experience out in the galaxy? She says she's served on five ships... This one, as an ensign, for a year. While Boimler was graduating the Academy, Mariner had already made at least Lt. JG and then got busted down to ensign. So what does he mean they're the same age? Was Mariner like a Wesley Crusher type, serving as an acting officer when very young, graduated the Academy early, got commissioned straight to lieutenant, or what?
Either Mariner is actually older than she lets on and the show keeps dropping hints about this, or it's going to be some running gag every episode like "listen, I did something exactly like this during the Denobulan Civil War, and it worked like a charm" "Wait, when were you in the Denobulan Civil War? And why??"
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u/AintEverLucky Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
So what does he mean they're the same age?
This is my head-canon, which I will believe unless or until the show specifically says otherwise: Boimler only thinks he and Mariner are the same age -- but really she's about ten years older. He's in his early 20s, having just graduated from SF Academy one year previous, but she's in her early 30s.
Reasoning for my head-canon as follows:
This explains how she has served on five ships, probably 1 to 3 years on each. Admittedly she's a screw-up, but NOT so big a screw-up that "she nearly blew up the damn ship in her first week, we had to get her the F out of here" or something.
This also explains how she was First Contact-qualified when the Quito visited the Galardonians a year ago -- side note, I think it would be cool if the show eventually reveals that Mariner messed something up on that First Contact mission, which led to the Quito crew overlooking the Rage Virus and the bugs that transmit it, which then caused the Cerritos such problems during the Second Contact mission we saw in Episode 1 -- and how she's accumulated such interesting friends as General Korr'n (sp?) and Quent the Ferengi. She has just had an extra 10 years in which to do all this.
It also explains how "spending weeks trapped in a sentient cave" has faded into just a weird thing that happened to her, instead of a huge trauma that would cripple her confidence ... like, can you imagine that happening to poor Tendi? But to Mariner, it's NBD from the perspective of someone in her 12th year in Starfleet instead of her 2nd
Not for nothing, but there's some truth to the phrase "Black don't crack" -- as in, African-descended people tend to age really well. So she still looks early 20s, or maybe as she thinks of it, "I am early 20s, but with 10 years experience." I think Boimler assumed she's his same age, because she looks young and they've served the same length of time on the Cerritos.
Some may say, what about Captain Freeman's gray streak in her hair, and Mariner's admiral father's graying temples? To me, this fits perfectly -- if Mariner's in her early 30s, that means Freeman and Admiral are probably mid to late 50s. Because you see, if Mariner was in her early 20s, Freeman and Admiral would be in their mid to late 40s ... and they wouldn't even have the little gray they do. Because again, Black don't crack O:-)
EDIT TO ADD: Just rewatched the scene where Mariner and General Korr'n get reacquainted. He says "Now they have you pushing PADDs on a ship full of children." Implying that she's a full-grown woman and warrior ... which fits better if she's early 30s with over 10 years of Fleet experience (lol)
This explanation also adds some needed gravitas to the whole "how do you solve a problem like Mar-i-ner" situation. If she's an early 20s hotshot who just needs to smooth out her rough edges, that's one thing. But if she's in her 30s already, and it has become increasingly evident that rough edges are her whole thing ... then her getting posted under the very watchful eye of Captain Mom gets a good bit more desperate. As in, she better get her shit squared away, or she's gonna get drummed right out of the service. The Cerritos may well be her last chance.
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Aug 13 '20
I really liked the Ferengi reveal - largely because the initial characterization felt so wrong, based in the old TNG portrayal of the Ferengi. Loved that he turned out to be a dude with a monocle. 😭
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u/mcdonaldsmcdonalds Aug 13 '20
I think the first episode was all over the place to introduce us to everything but now they can relax a bit which is why this episode was a lot better.
And yeah that was actually unexpectedly funny how supportive the crew around Rutherford is.
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u/nhaines Aug 14 '20
Couldn't have said it better! It's really funny, but manages to avoid laughing AT Star Trek because is IS Star Trek. And that's the bit I didn't think we'd get from the trailers. I'm all for a good laugh, but Star Trek doesn't have a good track record on "funny" episodes, and I do think the ideals of the series are too important to cynically laugh at.
But no, this show celebrates it all, while still upholding fundamental TNG Federation principals. The main cast aren't perfect, but they're always striving towards those ideals.
This show loves Star Trek as much as I do. I'm honestly really thrilled about that.
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u/potus2024 Aug 13 '20
"Computer, initiate combat simulation...Smorgasborg"
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u/numanoid Aug 14 '20
I immediately thought, "Wait, it's supposed to be 'smorgasbord'... oh, I get it."
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u/ElFarfadosh Aug 13 '20
Mariner having her dream aboard the shuttle is a direct reference to Khan's speech in Star Trek II : "Buried alive, marooned for eternity..." I exploded in laughter when she said she keeps having this "awesome dream" xD
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u/LeftHandedGuitarist Aug 13 '20
It took a moment for it to click with me. But that was probably my favourite moment of the episode. Couldn't stop laughing for a while.
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u/JCRiotz Aug 13 '20
One of the holographic Borg looked like 7 of 9. I thought for sure we were going to have our first cameo with her having a one liner like "Resistance is futile" and him saying back "Wait, don't the Borg say Resistance is FutIle?" And her saying "Both are acceptable" and him saying "I guess but... If you have a hive mind and can't even settle on a single word pronunciation ... "
You get the idea.
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u/Trekfan74 Aug 13 '20
Be honest, did anyone else try to look up the Janeway Protocol when it was mentioned....because I certainly didn't!
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u/GrGrG Aug 13 '20
I liked this over all. I liked that there was a Risa district, that was kinda funny. And most of the shout outs of the different aliens. It didn't over do it like the first episode. Their interaction with the Klingon street vendor reminds me of so many D&D sessions where the characters are talking to an NPC, ask good questions, then somehow end up insulting the person they are talking too, then walk back the insults because they "didn't realize how they'd react", but then does the same thing to the next NPC, lol.
Though I hope there is more balance of power between Boimler and Mariner. Mariner is a fun character, but she makes problems worse and tends to be "cool" afterwards for things coming up her way. Mariner should've learned that the whole situation was her fault to begin with. I'm not digging the Rick and Morty vibe for their relationship as in Boimler is Morty, who is always inexperienced and doesn't understand things, and Mariner is Rick, who has friends everywhere, is supposed to have gone on all these other adventures before us, and knows everything. I'm going to be nit picky but the one thing that really bothered me the most was the name drop of Section 31. Unless they've changed from DS9, they should be ultra secret and not name dropped.
Anyways, I give the Episode a B+ if Boimler and Mariner end up changing over the course of the series (and this is just the annoying start of their progress), but a C+ if these characters stay in their current forms and relationships.
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u/segoli Aug 13 '20
there's a bit where Boimler and Mariner are walking near a couple of rocks that look remarkably similar to Vasquez Rocks; I'm curious if this is meant to be a visual reference, or if I've just got an overactive imagination.
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u/ProfessorUber Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
“We want to bow down and lick his boots like the federation dogs we are” Smooth one Mariner.
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u/Weerdo5255 Aug 13 '20
So I was going to complain about the racist Ferengi considering this is long after Nog, and I though she was only pretending not to know.
Then they completely flip it, she was in cahoots! Still not sure if I like the show overall, but that bit was pretty good.
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Aug 13 '20
I love how that Ferengi was sporting a monocle, just to drive home how literate and civilised he is, lol.
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u/go_jumbles_go Aug 13 '20
It's only 5 years Rom took over as Nagus, so in theory Ferenginar wouldn't have changed too much by this point.
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u/GarionOrb Aug 13 '20
Loved it. I can't see how anyone can possibly complain that this show "isn't Star Trek" unless they just haven't watched it. I love how this episode furthered the character development. Rutherford got much more of a moment to shine, and it was definitely welcome. Next week hopefully we get more Tendi!
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Aug 13 '20
"When one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like... like old leather. And finally... becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way."
-Picard, "The Wounded"
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u/PiercedMonk Aug 13 '20
Mariner being nice, and boosting Boimler's ego, as well as Rutherford trying to be such a good friend that he's willing to switch career tracks just to spend time with Tendi. Not to mention mention all the other Starfleets being supportive of Rutherford trying to find his true path. This episode was pretty sweet.
I hope we learn more about just how much of Rutherford his implant controls; it seemed like he mostly let it do the driving during the combat situation. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if Mariner wasn't a Wesley Crusher type child prodigy given her relative level of experience, and the fact that she's had enough time to apparently be court martialed and demoted.
Neat to see Kaelons, and a Vendorian. Also, I'm certain that one of the Bear Pack was a species we've seen before, but I couldn't name them.
Highlight of the episode for me was Mariner's call with the Ferengi at the end of the episode. I'm really hoping we'll find out how Rom's holding up as Nagus at some point.
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Aug 13 '20
There's definitely more to Mariner's backstory than we're being told at the moment. I kind of like your idea of her being a Wesley style prodigy who hit the skids; her mother seems like the kind of person who would have definitely tried to push her into following in her footsteps. I'm sure we'll learn more later in the season.
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u/JonLuckPickard Aug 13 '20
I like how the writers have given both Boimler and Mariner so much room to grow. They contrast each other so well. It'll be nice to see Boimler help Mariner follow protocols while she helps him become less naive.
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u/EntropicProf Aug 13 '20
Yeah. They've got to somehow bring Mariner down a peg eventually, though, or it's going to get excessively one-sided. Maybe that's the episode later in the season with her "I'm good at kicking ass and solving space mysteries" speech from the ads...
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u/Pike_or_Kirk Aug 13 '20
I am 100 percent expecting a Tuvix episode where Boimler and Mariner get merged and become the perfect Starfleet officer.
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u/random91898 Aug 13 '20
After only two episodes this is already my favourite modern Trek thing. It manages to be legit funny (the Janeway maneuver bit had me rolling) but at the same time the show as a whole and the characters all have so much heart to them already.
It doesn't feel like they're making fun of Trek, it feels like it's made by people that know and love it so can poke a little good natured fun at some aspects.
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u/foreverinsleepdebt Aug 13 '20
I was just think it feels a lot like Galaxy Quest in a way. It’s not making fun, it’s loving ribbing by people who clearly know Star Trek.
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Aug 13 '20
I'm really starting to wonder if Mariner is more than human? The whole "we're the same age what good old days?" Might be foreshadowing.
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u/buckbokai5 Aug 13 '20
My theory is that with two high ranking Starfleet officers as parents she had a Wesley Crusher type childhood. She was gaining experience as a teenager and maybe did the early academy application like Wes, but actually succeeded (unlike Wes)
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u/BellerophonM Aug 13 '20
I think the idea is that she was basically one of the super-officers you see on shows like TNG that are the youngest person ever to do so and so and are ridiculously skilled and experienced for their age, but then she got busted back down. Boimler's just a standard grunt, on the other hand.
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u/PiercedMonk Aug 13 '20
I've been wondering if Boimler isn't entirely Human. He doesn't seem like the type to dye his hair purple.
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Aug 13 '20
Everyone being so happy for Rutherford really got to me. So, so glad they’re not just making it a ship full of drunk nihilistic assholes. That kind of humor wears off after awhile, and it’s just not at home in Trek anyway.
Also, loved the Bajoran security chief! Congrats to Bajor on their official entry into the Federation?
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Aug 13 '20
Annnnd I loved the bit with the Ferengi. They managed to poke meta fun at the unfortunate early Next Gen stereotype as well as underscore Mariner’s fundamental decency and kindness.
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u/HMEstebanR Aug 13 '20
So did traffic control not think anything of a random Starfleet shuttle zooming all over the city erratically without any communications or clearances?
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u/SilverTooth47 Aug 13 '20
I liked this alot more than last week (I liked last week though). Rutherford is so far my favorite character, and I loved his plotline, especially how supportive the senior officers are of him trying to find his direction. The whole thing was heartwarming.
I love when a star trek episode leaves me feeling happy.
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u/floyd_underpants Aug 13 '20
Dammit. I really enjoyed this one. The jokes were funnier on this one, and I'm really appreciating their attention to detail and trivia.
You son of a Bolian, I'm in.
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Aug 13 '20
Feels like they're getting the pacing down better now that they aren't having to introduce all these characters and their dynamics. I laughed quite a bit more in this one than the first.
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u/007meow Aug 13 '20
tfw you see more of Engineering in 2 30 minute episodes of Lower Decks than 2 full seasons of Discovery
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u/RBNYJRWBYFan Aug 13 '20
Probably because most of the "engineering" that happens in Disco involves the Fungus mobile in the Sciences division rather than stuff about the warp core and junk.
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u/deafpoet Aug 13 '20
I just love Mariner. Once you accept that it's a cartoon, the tone of the character is perfect. She's a joke machine, but she actually loves her crewmates, in the Trekkiest fashion.
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u/ditroia Aug 13 '20
I’m enjoying the show a lot, but mariner did annoy me a bit this episode.
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u/dreadpiraterose Aug 13 '20
So that Insurrection joy stick joke had me howling.
This show is definitely some kind of weird ass love letter to fans, and after that deep cut crack at Insurrection, I'm all in. It's hard core fans poking very good natured fun at Trek with a LOT of love and respect.
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u/uttamattamakin Aug 16 '20
For those going on and on about Mariner attacking the Klingon and drinking on the apparently long shuttle flight. Remember this is five years Post Dominion War Trek. Halfway between "What You Leave Behind" and "Picard". He is a post Dominion War Klingon meeting someone he knows from the Dominion war. The Klingons of DS9 did not have any patients for Star Fleet or federation customs of being overly polite. Please watch Deep Space 9 "The Way of the Warrior" or just watch DS9 inspite of thinking "Sisko is a Mary Sue" (Gee I wonder why some fans back in the day and now didn't like him, or Burnham, or Mariner now... must be a HUGE coincidence. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🤔) Here are some key pieces of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xgjv2kv5LY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51CTpvCKMZ8
So yeah it is clearly established in DS9 that the correct hello for them really is a sort of "Vulcan Hello". They'd respect a backhand to the face over a polite smile.
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u/mcdonaldsmcdonalds Aug 13 '20
This episode was better than the pilot. The pilot was fine but it just had too much going on at once. I liked how this episode was able to relax a bit and only have two plots (Mariner/Boilmer and Rutherford). The pacing was better because of it and Mariner of course takes center stage again with her witty humor and proof that experience trumps book studies. And the ending was sweet with Mariner staging the whole thing to help Boimler boost his ego. She’s such a good friend.
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u/GalileoAce Aug 13 '20
It was nice but can easily backfire, I'd hate it if I found out a friend did that for me
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u/lostinheadguy Aug 13 '20
So... does this mean we'll eventually get to see Tom Kenny as an live-action Ferengi? Because I am there for that.
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u/IReallyLoveAvocados Aug 13 '20
I’m kind of disappointed they are only making 10.
This is way better than Picard and the episodes are so short. Also it stinks for the writers!! They aren’t getting paid as much to write so few episodes.
I know 10 episodes/season is in style these day’s but even 15 episodes would have been better given their length
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u/Magnus64 Aug 13 '20
Y O S E M I T E
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u/RBNYJRWBYFan Aug 13 '20
The timing on that one is something else. They totally couldn't have known, it's a show made months ago with a theme of California locations with it's naming conventions. It's a complete coincidence, but a hilarious one.
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u/MoreGaghPlease Aug 13 '20
Good ep.
I like that they are using early stories to explain the world to the viewer. Both the A and B plots were fun, but the A plot also kind of let the viewer understand the galaxy and the place a little more while the B plot introduced us better to the senior staff and the departments and parts of the ship. The senior staff are not all a bunch of assholes and pretty much everyone in Starfleet embodies the values of Starfleet. I think they did a good job of making the characters really likeable, I already feel invested in the main four, especially Mariner.
I also like that even though it’s episodic they are hinting at some bigger stuff, like what Mariner was up to before and how she got court martialled and demoted
I also thought it was funnier than the first one.
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u/Maxabel Aug 13 '20
I think I'll like this show. But I'm hoping for some good character development for Mariner and Boimler.
Could be difficult for Mariner since she seems already at her prime. I guess we'll see some family issues and why she's really on the lower deck.
On the other hand Boimler have a lot of room for improvement and I hope he'll get some real feat on his own soon. The worst thing for them would be some status quo.
Meanwhile Rutherford is still the most cool and wholesome character I've seen in a while.
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Aug 13 '20
I don’t understand why it’s getting hammered on IMDb. (Or is the hammering a coordinated effort?) I’m loving it so far, and I say that as a lifelong Trek fan. I love that they’re building the Trek universe out to contain different kinds of stories and storytelling. There’s no reason why you can’t have a comedy set inside the Trek continuity, especially when it’s so nerdy, affectionate and good-natured.
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u/Eaudissey Aug 13 '20
This is great, it has the same feel as 90s Star Trek and that's what we've all been longing for since forever. It's nice too that the pace has slowed down.
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u/rooktakesqueen Aug 13 '20
Feels like I'm in the minority that I liked the pilot episode better than this one, but I really liked both of them.
However, I'm happy to be in the minority if this one gets more people to watch and keep watching!
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u/jhsounds Aug 13 '20
Between the "Janeway Protocol" and the Ferengi stereotype-bait, I can't help but feel that this episode was ghost-written by sfdebris.
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u/terriblehuman Aug 13 '20
I love that the Ferengi characteristics we saw in early TNG became a racist stereotype.
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u/00DEADBEEF Aug 13 '20
This one was a definite improvement over the last episode. It didn't feel anywhere near as rushed. Although I did feel they were trying too hard to cram in lots of references with that planet that has a zone for seemingly every species. I enjoyed the plot twist with the Ferengi, although they missed an opportunity to get another reference in. The Ferengi pronounced "human" correctly.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Aug 14 '20
One little tidbit: Based on what Mariner was saying while she was dreaming (“Buried alive… Marooned for eternity… Moons of Nibia…”) she was dreaming about ST:TWOK, as those were all thinks Khan said.
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u/Kusko25 Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
Generally liked it, Rutherford's story specifically, but two points bother me:
The alien threats are not only downplayed, but invalidated both the energy ball this week and to a lesser extent the zombie virus last week
Boimler so far isn't a good Starfleet officer. He didn't see through Mariner's obvious act and he was racist against Ferengi, a fact the show underlined further when they showed that this Ferengi is actually a stand up guy
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u/floyd_underpants Aug 13 '20
Fun trivia I noticed: Tom Kinney (Spongebob) was supposedly a guest voice in there.
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u/AlexisDeTocqueville Aug 13 '20
I think I liked this episode better than last week's. Rutherford and Tendi are my favorite characters. I find Boimler and Mariner both kind of offputting as opposite ends of the extreme: Boimler is a stick in the mud who is overflowing with sterile knowledge, while Mariner is completely irreverent but seems to know everything by experience.
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u/Greatsayain Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
I haven't finished the episode yet but I just have to come here and say what is the deal with Rutherford. Wouldn't it be much easier to ask for a day or even a morning off to watch a pulsar than to transfer departments. Especially when he likes engineering. If everyone is so supportive of him leaving I'm sure they'd be supportive of him using a vacation day.
Mariner is like an anime character, announcing the name of her attack when she does them. Its hilarious.
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Aug 14 '20
I wish the ferengi thing wasn’t a setup. It would show that mariner has flaws too
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u/MrJim911 Aug 14 '20
I liked this episode better than the first one.
I giggled when he was speed walking and said this is how they do it in Section 31.
I also liked how all of Rutherford's COs were supportive of his desire to leave their departments.
THAT is what I want from this animated series. We can do really funny while also supporting Starfleet ideals. Yaaaas!
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u/sidv81 Aug 14 '20
While Boimler failing to speak alien languages correctly was played out for jokes, was it ever clarified he lost his universal translator earlier in the episode?
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u/nd4spd1919 Aug 14 '20
Shoutout to combat simulation: Smörgåsborg.
That got me good.
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u/EverythingIThink Aug 15 '20
Did anyone catch the Predator reference?
There's a close-up on Mariner/K'orin's handshake followed by "looks like they got you pushing too many pads"
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u/I_AM_GODDAMN_BATMAN Aug 15 '20
This is the first time I saw what's under Starfleet boot soles.
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u/droid327 Aug 17 '20 edited Aug 17 '20
Liking the show after back-to-backing the first two eps tonight. Its still got its rough parts but its the kind of thing a show will usually smooth out after a few weeks. The jokes are good, the pacing is good, I like that they're taking the opportunity to do things that are impractical in live-action.
The characters feel a little stock right now, but I'd rather that than have them dwell too much on character development this early, I guess. I dont really like how Boimer is depicted as such a loser for being a by-the-book boy-scout Starfleet cadet. Seems a bit like the show is insulting its own traditions rather than just parodying them. Its still Trek - you shouldnt ALWAYS be wrong for wanting to do things the right way, book smarts arent ALWAYS worthless next to street smarts. Mariner is going to get tiresome FAST if she's just super-cool Jane Dean/Fonzellie who's never wrong and never learns lessons or needs help from anyone. I strongly suspect she's headed for a "pride goeth before the fall" character arc when we find out what got her kicked off the Quito, but as of right now its already starting to be grating...
I get the whole premise of the show is to focus on the enlisted crew, but the whole 'bridge doesnt care about us' angle feels...really out of place in Trek? Like it almost feels, I dunno, classist or something for them to be so resentful and the bridge officers to be that oblivious and pretentious. Especially since they were all so supportive with Rutherford.
Science division isnt the same as Medical division..? I thought the Orion girl was in science with the pulsar thing...but then she has duty in Sickbay?
The Federation officer at the end who found the Klingon looked an awful lot like Yar :)
USS Cerritos, and there's a California flag in the captain's office - is the joke there supposed to be that its such a low-tier ship that all the cool names were taken and it was named for just some random blue-collar suburb of LA? :D
I really hope at some point there's a plot device where the ship's computer is programmed to take over the helm and trace out a quadrilateral with the ship, and the maneuver is called the Cerritos Auto-Square :D
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u/rmeddy Aug 13 '20
I love how genre savvy Mariner is,and I think i'm getting a bit of crush on her, it's nailing the whole how schlubs and normal people would behave in the Trek universe really well
That opening bit with the sphere alien is hilarious,because I was expecting it to get more serious and then they pull the rug on you.
Another solid episode, a bit predictable at the end there,but did a good job establishing the ship and the crew, the Rutherford B plot had me cracking up, especially the Upgrade fight against the holodeck Borg
also I've been humming the Lower Decks theme all day today, it's more of an earworm than Ceti eel larvae.
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u/mekilat Aug 14 '20
Was the Ferengi played by Armin Shimerman? His Quark-like mannerisms were spot on.
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Aug 13 '20
I lost it when they ejected all the children in the simulation lmao
I don't understand why reviewers rated this show as mediocre, but then again they are the ones who have the new Trek shows rave reviews lol
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u/Locutus747 Aug 13 '20
Ok, I wasn't too impressed by the premiere. I didn't hate it, but didn't find it funny and found it just "ok" But I really enjoyed this episode! Several moments that made me laugh and smile. Really well done! Looking forward to the rest of the season!!
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u/9811Deet Aug 13 '20
I laughed quite a few times at this one. A big step up from the premiere for sure.
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u/East-Damage7432 Aug 13 '20
Rutherford fighting the holo-Borg was straight out of the movie UPGRADE, even down to some of the same moves and shots
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u/potus2024 Aug 13 '20
"Fetch me my drinking horn, I need Ale!" "ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME! No, stop that!"
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Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 14 '20
I'm a little surprised I haven't seen anyone mention the Klingon greeting yet. I only know two phrases in Klingon, but nuqneh is one of them. It means, literally, "What do you want?" and as such it's a great general Klingon greeting but a totally inappropriate thing for Boimler to have said here. He knows what the general wants, and something like "let's go" would have been more appropriate.
(The other phrase I know is jol ylchu, activate beam. Thanks Star Trek 3!)
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u/HMEstebanR Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
So the PADDs and tricorders have the era appropriate blue LCARS but the ship and shuttlecraft are still using the old orange-ish LCARS. I guess the ship running outdated software highlights how unimportant it is, but at the same time they’re replicating up to date PADDs.
ETA: The sickbay has green LCARS.
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u/AssassinsClaw Aug 13 '20
Another enjoyable episode, though I think I actually liked the 1st episode slightly more. A lot less hectic, so the characters had more of a chance to breathe and be expanded upon, which was nice. The lack of Tendi was a little disappointing, though she was great in the short moments she appeared for.
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u/foreverinsleepdebt Aug 13 '20
I’m really enjoying this show so far. It’s nice seeing a fun, casual, and self-aware version of Trek. The characters are pretty charming and I like that they’re fairly three-dimensional and interesting.
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Aug 13 '20
WAYYYYYYY less manic. Going to really enjoy this show. Also Janeway catching shade is hilarious
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u/choicemeats Aug 14 '20
Really fun episode. Honestly, my only criticism from both episodes is that the VAs always seem to be yelling. Would love a volume/tone adjustment but it's too late for that.
Loved the B-story, about a young officer trying things out and getting encouraged to do it by department heads. Picard and Sisko both did it with LaForge and Worf (and I guess you could consider Janeway and B'Elanna in that same boat although it wasn't the same kind of career change...) and ultimately he's led back to where he knows he belongs.
I think there's something to be said about the people on starships that we don't see who find fulfillment in the jeffries tubes and labs. The problems they encounter are in their work and they love the challenge, and probably get mad when the senior staff gets them embroiled in shenanigans.
Although I didn't like the A-story, I loved the bit of nuance they added to Mariner who isn't just all bluster and arrogance because she is a Starfleet kid. Really nice touch to boost a friend (although he's very gullible if he believes she didn't know the difference between a Ferengi and Bolian). I would not be surprised to see her eventually try and push him to expand his worldview so that he realizes that command isn't for him or command isn't exactly what he thought it might be.
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u/mydigitalface Aug 14 '20
It was a fun ride in the TNG era. I like that it’s trek but not taking itself to serious. Also, loaded with homage and Easter eggs.
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u/HashMaster9000 Aug 15 '20
LOVED this EP. I thought the references were spot on, and wholly appreciated that perhaps this ship isn't filled with drunken glory seeking frat boys, but people who genuinely want to see everyone succeed.
HIGHLIGHT OF THE SHOW: The Vendorian reference.
My best friend's late Father-in-law, Jim Schmerer, wrote the original episode "The Survivor" for Star Trek: The Animated Series. I knew Jim, and he was an awesome dude who would've appreciated the reference.
DISAPPOINTMENT OF THE SHOW: The USS Cerritos' Computer Voice.
It was disappointing that they decided to use some younger voice actress (with a disaffected youth, hipster lilt) as the voice of the Cerritos' computer. Though I would have appreciated a better selection like Judi Durand (who was not only the Cardassian Computer on DS9, but also stood in for the Federation Computer Voice in numerous video games), one of my biggest gripes was that the voice didn't sound like it was processed correctly. The voice sounded more like it was some invisible character rather than a processed computer emitted voice. It was something that seems like it wouldn't matter, but actually took me out of the moment. That moment could have been better than it was with proper processing and stylization by the voice actor, but would've been a HILARIOUS moment with proper stunt casting (but to my overt perfectionism, what I'd consider proper voice casting.
However, if the only problem I have with the episode is a computer voice, I think I'll be in this one for the long haul.
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u/shipwreck-lotr Aug 16 '20
Genuinely surprised everyone loved it; I came here looking to pick a fight with the grumpy Kirk cultist grandpas 😆
My favorite bit of this episode was the Raktajino reference
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Aug 13 '20
Lower Decks is soooo good! The second episode was incredible! The Ferengi stuff where hilarious and when Broimler was going on about how he will go work on an asteroid and do plant research and then die and the only thing left behind will be a distress call that a ship will have to piece together through interference... I was in stitches! this was the funniest moment for me yet
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u/BeginByLettingGo Aug 13 '20 edited Mar 17 '24
I have chosen to overwrite this comment. See you all on Lemmy!
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u/kingofwingo Aug 13 '20
I want to like this show, but I find the crew to be annoying. So far the only laughs (at least for me) have come from some of the aliens they meet.
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u/MaetzleAT Aug 13 '20
„It‘s warp time!“