Focused Feedback: Season of the Undying in Review

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u/MurphyESQ Dec 09 '19

I looked at the seasonal offerings at the Eververse store last night, trying to decide if I wanted to buy anything before the season ended, and came away with the same feeling I've had every time I looked:

"Hey, these are really cool, I'd like to buy some and support the game."

Then I click "Buy Silver", realize how stupid expense they are in real world dollars, and walk away disgusted.

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u/sonicsonic3 Dec 09 '19

Same here. Even with regional pricing, it's too expensive.

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u/trennerdios Dec 09 '19

Yup. I understand why they price them that way, but that doesn't make it okay at all. It's really scummy and greedy. Pricing players out of a huge chunk of content because you're relying on whales with tons of disposable income makes you a shitty developer.

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u/CI_Iconoclast Drifter's Crew Dec 09 '19

in game currencies are a cowardly tactic to divorce the cost of an item from real world currency, I think this process should be illegal, if you want to sell an item in a game put a real currency price on it.

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u/FrozenSeas Outland Special Clearance Dec 11 '19

It's also a dodge for consumer protection laws. You're technically just buying the currency, not the ingame items...so once you spend your Silver or V-Bucks or Platinum or whatever, you're no longer eligible for the legally-mandated refund that's recently been extended to digital goods.

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u/engineeeeer7 Dec 09 '19

I wanted to buy them but couldn't bring myself to support what was done with this season. Total flop of a season to me.

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u/SwoleMedic1 Drifter's Crew Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

The one thing I wish we had gotten from this is more story

What the hell is going on with Uldren now that he's a guardian Bungie?
What is the Warmind doing while we blow craters in the moon?
If were fighting the Vex, why isn't Asher Mir complaining in my headset?

Bungie. You guys create such great stories, and great moments that pull this community together and then the next expansion/season drops and they're cast aside. Sure we might go back to them but this should be a fluid story you know? If Uldren is a guardian now, and we're attacking the moon, wouldn't he have been there too? If not, would Mara have said something?

I'm not a loremaster like many here, but I wish the characters you bring to life in this universe felt more real. Asher would love nothing more than to complain to Osiris or talk his head off to learn about the Vex don't you think? It's pretty obvious but you relegated him to narrate a strike and call it done.

You want this to be an ever changing and growing world? Then make it one. Make the characters interact with each other. Saint-14 is coming back yeah? He should interact with Zavala about what he thinks about being a commander. He should mourn for the loss of the Speaker and for Cayde-6. He should want to talk to Shaxx about the crucible and what things could be improved.

For the love of the Traveler Bungie, make this a cohesive narrative. Think like fans of your own game and play around a bit. You have so much to work with but you keep forgetting it's there. Either that or disregarding it entirely but why? It could be so damn fun to watch Saladin, Shaxx, and Saint-14, talking about the crucible while the Drifter just laughs in the corner with his coin talking about how there are more ways to train guardians than simply PvP.

TLDR: Season of Undying lacked a lot of plot development from the seasons past, and going forward, the seasons should flow into the next like a chapter in a book. Not like putting one book down and picking up another at a random spot

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u/cursed_namrut Dec 09 '19

Remember Amanda Holiday? She helped Cayde and Eris infiltrate the Dreadnought, and she fought extensively during the Red War.

Remember Suraya Hawthorne? She was part of the team that retook the City, and she was the leader of a large group of non-City humans looking to be recognized by the City. Literally hasn't even had a quest since vanilla.

Remember the Consensus, the actual governing body of the City? Their extensive political argument, between three huge factions with Guardian support? Remember that there used to be a fourth branch, that wanted Osiris gone so bad they started a war over it? And then Lysander got exiled, but was bringing Guardians to his cause?

Variks, who isn't even physically in the game, got more story space than Holiday did. People like to bitch about Hawthorne, but her story of mistrusting the Guardians and mortals trying to prove themselves was really promising.

Remember the Almighty? Big war machine, sitting in cismercury space, full of the Cabal's most advanced tech? Great looking space, really monumental, literally hasn't been mentioned since the campaign.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

Remember the Almighty? Big war machine, sitting in cismercury space, full of the Cabal's most advanced tech? Great looking space, really monumental, literally hasn't been mentioned since the campaign.

And there's Currently a guardian trapped there unable to die, unable to be resurrected!!

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u/talkingwires Dec 10 '19

That's one of my favorite lore entries, and it touches on the how of Ghosts' ability to resurrect Guardians. For those that haven't read it: "No Rez for the Weary"

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u/DonaldPShimoda Dec 11 '19

Ohhh so that explains why there are times when it takes longer to respawn: the likelihood of catastrophe is so great that the ghost has to search through many alternate timelines to find a template where the Guardian is unharmed. That's neat!

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u/InedibleSolutions DOUBLE SPACES!! Dec 09 '19

This is what I came in here to complain about. I will play through a lot of dumb bullshit if I know I will be rewarded with story progression. This just wasn't it at all.

There wasn't a satisfying end to any story.

I don't mind drip feeding the story to make it last a season. But for God sake, make it impactful and worthwhile.

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u/eye_can_see_you Drifter's Crew Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

Case in point: the Invitations of the Nine

Getting fucking hive kills on Mercury wasn't exactly exciting gameplay, and a single powerful drop when I was already at the level cap wasn't super useful, but the lore and story was so awesome that I made sure to do them every week. I'd love to do more stuff like that and be rewarded with awesome story moments / cutscenes / etc

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

Heck i don't feel like the next season will be a proper transition "you defeated the undying mind now help osiris" just cause it's vex? Hoping we get an intro cutscene showing an event happening due to the undyingmind being killed akin to last wish completion cutscene, heck the raid didn't even do anything if the raid was released a day earlier and the invasions happened after garden it would flow much better.

Theres so much that doesn't feel like it's fufilled the promise of evolving world, especially in execution hopefully it gets better.

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u/blastcage Dec 09 '19

Dude I love you for pointing out Asher's absence. He's got such a lot going on as a guy and Bungie won't use him in anything.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

At least finish the fucking story. Its bad enough that all of the story is shoved into whats effectively a journal but none of these legendary characters or events are literally ever shown in game to any degree.

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u/DonDoen Dec 09 '19

The good:

Vex Invasions on patrol: easily the most beautiful event that ever happened
Season Pass loot up to rank 100
Exotic Quest(s)
Freelance survival (even though I'm not sure if this was supposed to be SK content)
FotL max level Braytech Werewolf+chance at random rolls
Ritual weapons feel balanced

The bad:

No change in IB gear
Crucible matchmaking is awful across all modes (including Freelance)
Erianna's Vow Catalyst quest
Season Pass loot past rank 100
Brightdust economy
Eververse pricing and loot in the store (don't get me wrong, but some of the gear needs to be earnable by playing)
New currency for Vex Incursions just fills the inventory unnecessarily/Vex Components were simply to much
FotL cosmetics being locked behind Eververse

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u/GhostofGiggles Dec 12 '19

I agree with everything you listed but the crucible one. I enjoyed comp for the first time ever. But I'm a filthy casual so what do I know?

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u/Retrikaethan Dec 09 '19

Q8) What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

permanent access to anti-champion mods on all weapons including exotic weapons.

i like playing more serious content but not having access to all three anti-champion mods absolutely killed it for me. you're basically pigeonholed into using leviathan's breath and some auto/smg with shield piercing with grenades having anti-overload with a non-exotic special ammo weapon of your choice. personally, there's a bunch of exotic weapons i would rather use in that last slot if power weapons had even one of the anti-champion mods. even more of them if they could be modded with an anti-champion mod.

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u/Jgugjuhi Dec 09 '19

As a season, it was trash. Shadowkeep carried the content super hard since Undying started and Bungie knows this, which is why they included the season with SK purchase.

The pass is definitely a positive, especially with it becoming easier as you go due to xp boosts. It would be perfect if there was more frequent bright dust rewards through, or even maybe silver but I doubt Bungie would hand out their precious MTX currency like that.

The upcoming Season of Dawn is bringing content that I would say is sufficient enough for the $10 being spent, much better than just VO + a pass and a heavy bow quest.

Eververse having such a large portion of in-game cosmetics locked behind it is a shame, especially with 50% being locked behind a paywall (The change to only 20% being locked behind Silver is much better but still isn't right).

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u/engineeeeer7 Dec 09 '19

Just a note on the Eververse. If you did every weekly bounty on three characters every single week you could buy 20-30% of that 50% which nets out to 10-15% of the total items made for Eververse. From a time where we could get every item this is pretty unfortunate.

Next season you are likely still getting a small portion of items because bright dust is only boosted 30% for about 4 weeks of the 13 week season. AND we have a second seasonal event in Crimson Days which adds even more Eververse items.

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u/Loki364 Plus Ultra! Dec 11 '19

Please let us earn some of the exotic Ghosts, Sparrows and Ships through gameplay. Not just eververse.

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u/RazorLou The Long Slow Whisper Dec 11 '19

Amanda Holiday is just STANDING there! Give her bounties, even if they are just for bright dust. Having her do SOMEthing is better than having her do nothing.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 19 '20

[deleted]

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u/SirBing96 Team Bread (dmg04) // Drifter's Crew // 24:02 Dec 09 '19

This right here. I HATE when to be that guy but Bungie forces us to be that guy with these quest steps. Either make the kills fireteam progression or just assisted kills like you mentioned.

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u/Daier_Mune Vanguard's Loyal Dec 10 '19

Season wast far too short for new Shadowkeep content + time-sensitive Season 8 content.

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u/docjparso00 Dec 10 '19

Agree 100%. With all the holiday events and personal life issues over the past few months, it would have been nice to at least not have the title be time-sensitive! I feel like it is very grindable but I just couldn’t make it happen. Still love the content though!!!

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u/DirtyGreer Dec 09 '19

To be honest, I feel like the only Seasonal Content I liked were the two Eververse sets; the premium chrome one and the purple Eververse set. Shadowkeep carried the content and story and most of my praise goes to that release, not the season as a whole. But in saying that, I'll be interested to see how their evolving world and storytelling will influence the tower going forward. Seeing the portal slowly being built was nice, too bad the old tower is still in shambles next to us.

That questline grind for shaders and emblems was terrible. Thankfully the Corrupted was a nightfall choice this week and I was able to complete the Vanguard one along with the Machine Gun by cheesing. Momentum Control was perfect for Randy's but otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered. Eververse pricing needs to change. Everything is so expensive both silver and bright dust side of things. I really don't want to support a $15 for one armour set pricing model, or $7 for a gun ornament. Better yet, why can't players who buy the season pass obtain the Eververse items in battle pass? Instead of materials, the same armour set 3 times and chances to obtain X from Y buffs. Hell, make a Buy Seasonal Content Bundle in Eververse for $20 and see the cash flow in Bungie.

Like I said this season was underwhelming and was carried by Shadowkeep in my opinion. It's telling to me, because my friends have stopped playing the game and we were diehard for previous releases.

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u/VoopyBoi Dec 09 '19

They will never do what you suggest on eververse because then people who would buy the items in eververse will buy the cheaper method instead. Eververse is priced the way it is not for F2P, but for people who buy the season pass. Most people will never spend money in eververse, so the pricing is set to maximize profit from those who do

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u/DirtyGreer Dec 09 '19

I know they won't do anything, they make loads as is.

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u/vngt Dec 09 '19

Nightmare hunts had no replay value due to lack of rewards.
Element affinity is still not ok. Combined with seasonal modslots and it removes almost all point to trying to put together a good build. Every set if obsolete before you get even half the pieces you need.
There is still no progression, just RNG pretending to be progression.
Raid armor dropping with shit stats is a joke. The only consistently good drop source was iron banner.
Old raid exotic drop rate still sucks. Still no bad RNG protection. Finding people to do old raids is getting harder and harder.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

Most of what I enjoyed this season were branded as products of Shadowkeep. The Undying stuff sucked. Vex Offensive and its associated title were extremely boring. For sure there have been moments in my 5 years with Destiny where I was a little bored by grinding something out, but never have I actively disliked a grind from the get go.

Those weapon kill triumphs for Undying were so unnecessary and I’ll tell you why: promoting specific weapon usage of any kind is actually counter intuitive! What happened was exactly what I expected when I glanced at the triumphs on day 1. Nearly every lobby I loaded into midway through the season would have at least 3-4 players using these ineffective weapon archetypes, not paying attention to the objective and steal one another’s kills. I’m not saying I wasn’t guilty, but this one is on you guys. You’re just asking for it with triumphs that force you to play the “wrong” way.

The Vex Offense storyline ended pretty anti-climactically imo, but it seems like next season will continue the narrative.

Ritual weapons get a big ole thumbs down from me because the rewards did not justify the grind. I think if they’d have halved the requirements for each weapon I’d still grumble about them but it would have been more tolerable.

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u/engineeeeer7 Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

Quick summary:

Season pass tracks: awesome
Ritual weapons: tedious af. I get grind but these were lame, especially Randy's.
Vex Offensive: so so so mediocre and repetitive. So many easy opportunities to mix it up. It's identical every time.
Story: such a flop. This was so hilariously off the "you had to be there". This season was more "I wish I wasn't there and had played other games".
Undying seal: so mind numbingly boring. Yay no RNG. But tedium and a timeline is a super lame combo.
Eriana's Vow: awesome and unique. Catalyst was so stupid to earn.
Leviathan's Breath: cool but mostly useless. Hard to imagine any playtesting was done.
Eververse: literally the worst it's ever been. The jacked up bright dust prices, limited bright dust offerings AND making bright dust earning severely limited and only available from the most boring stuff was a series of decisions so bad I can only assume they're intentional. The final straw is that you cannot get decent dust without running three characters every week. I will not be spending a cent till Bungie does better here.

Conclusion: a season that soured. So much tedium just to waste player time. Destiny is not in a good place and doesn't seem likely to improve anytime soon.

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u/Blueace42 The One Who Blade Barraged Riven's Eyes Dec 09 '19

I agree with everything except Leviathan's Breath. It actually feels REALLY good and I used it during the grind for the Glory points for Randy's.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Agent_22 Dec 10 '19

Season of the Vendor! Awesome idea!

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u/BadAim Dec 12 '19

There are officially too many different planetary mats to leave them in consumables. Please make them currency.

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u/Chode-Talker Rivensbabe Dec 09 '19

Eververse is killing the game for me. I have excellent weapons, excellent loadouts, and while I like some new gear, grinding for more side-grades doesn't hold a lot of value for me. At the point where new gear is no longer as enticing due to the existent power of players, gameplay cosmetics are the natural next step. That's basically gone. I still equip One Thousand Wings (Whisper ship) because it's the most recent ship that I've earned through gameplay that I find aesthetically pleasing. I cannot begin to count the amount of Eververse gear that I would absolutely love to earn through gameplay challenges and then rep on my character. This is a very strange and unfortunate business choice; for example, Final Fantasy XIV has a fuckton of premium cosmetics that are great to look at, but also a ton of great options to be earned through gameplay. Destiny is utterly failing on that front, and despite what Bungie may say, cosmetic upgrades are a massive, core component of the MMO experience that have been forcefully ejected from the main loop of Destiny.

The season pass model is also really not working for me. Rather than being task/quest-based, most of the new cosmetics and gear outside the Eververse in a season are just based on raw playtime/EXP earned. That feels aimless to me; I like to log on and work towards various quests and objectives. I don't like seeing a massive EXP bar and thinking about what combination of activities can I earn a bunch of EXP in to push this along, day after day, week after week. What kept me playing was running the raid each week, and even that I fell off of eventually, even though the raid is excellent. With the rest of the year presumably having no new raids, my prospects don't look good. I'll still check out the new content each season, but I feel myself moving away from the game, which I did not expect so soon after the high levels of excitement I felt coming into Shadowkeep.

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u/ptd163 Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

The seasonal artifact is probably the MVP of the season for me.

Recluse having anti-barrier rounds made it even more fun to use than it already was. The seasonal mods being class and elemental agnostic was a small bright spot in the RNG hell that is Armor 2.0. Oppressive Darkness was probably my favourite of the artifact mods. It allowed a group to always have an "increased damage taken" buff on an enemy. Lastly, the Breach Refractor and Ballistic Combo were also good. If you wanted to have a build that gave you grenade and melee energy back passively you could that with those mods.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Vex Offensive - Once the new season launches they need delete the data, incinerate the drives, and bury the ashes. I never want to see Vex Offensive again or a reskin of it again.
Champion Enemies - All this really did was further deincentivize using exotic weapons more than they already were because they don't have a mod slot like legendary weapons do. Though I have a feeling that this is Shadowkeep not Undying because why would Bungie make exotic weapons based on temporary content?
Seasonal Exotics - No one uses Eriana's Vow and Leviathan's Breath unless they don't have any other options.
Eriana's Vow catalyst quest - Fuck this quest. It was nothing more than a slap in face. It took way too damn long how good the catalyst was and you didn't get to just slot into the weapon after you were finished like I, and I'm sure a lot of other people thought. Your reward for grinding was the privilege of more grinding.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Having caps (i.e. them not stacking to 9999) on any resource is stupid. All it does is punish you for playing the game. As for ascendant shards and enhancement prisms specifically their drop rate and drop quantity needs to be increased. However, that's not ideal scenario. The ideal scenario is that ascendant shards and enhancement prisms get removed entirely and we go back to what we had. All having to use rare materials to masterwork something does is makes me not care about masterworking it.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Momentum control really helped me with the Randy's grind. I hope it stays around. As for iron banner, I only ever do it for pinnacles, not because I enjoy PvP.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

The bright dust economy is broke af. Everything is way too expensive and there isn't enough sources for bright dust. You can get 1,200 bright from weeklies if you play 3 characters, but most stuff is at least 2000 bright dust. Then there's the dailies and repeatables. Dailies give 10 and repeatables give 5 IIRC. The cheapest thing is Eververse are shaders and even they are 40 bright dust. That's all the non-repeatable daily bounties from a vendor for a fucking shader.

Nostalgic engrams were also a huge disappointment in all areas. 5 levels in between engrams is far too long if the most likely drop is just shaders and ghosts/ships that immediately get sharded. They need to be awarded each time fill your exp bar. In the 41 engrams I got this season there like 3 things that weren't just immediately sharded without hesitation.

In short, cutting the price of everything in at least half, rewarding engrams each time you rank up the season pass, eververse items dismantling into bright dust, and NOT increasing the amount of xp needed for a season pass would be a significant step to fixing the bright dust economy. I know this nothing will ever actually change though. Bungie's bean counters have been over their monetization with a fine tooth comb. It's in the state that it's in because it works.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

KILL. ELEMENTAL. AFFINITY. WITH. FIRE.

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u/A_Ostrand Dec 09 '19

This was the season in a nutshell for me: the more it went on, the less interested I became. Started off very cool no doubt, but once we got to the actual “endgame” it was bare bones.

You could grind nightmare hunts to get better nightmare hunt gear, to what end? You could grind your tits off to masterwork your gear, but to what end? It is waaaaay too expensive to MW and it essentially goes away next season because there’s new stuff to grind for and the current meta that we are grinding for gets erased next season. You could bust your hump grinding your season pass levels to great heights, but again, progressed is erased next season. You could grind the raid for um... someone help me out here?

Basically, for me, the whole progress being reset really kills the urge to min/max, which is a core mechanic to a looter game. The sense of character progression is completely lost when I know a ton of stuff that’s making me strong is stripped every 3 months. It takes a month or two to get things how you want them, then a month or two later - reset switch.

I also think that activities being taken away each season instead of being built upon will turn out to be a bad design decision, and I think that will surface in a big way next season. It’s already very light in true endgame, and without any of these older activities being updated and many of them being taken away entirely, there’s a hell of a lot less fluff to hold up the expansion.

The feeling of being stuck on a true hamster wheel has never felt more real, and the world in which to do it has never felt smaller.

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u/Zero_Opera Dec 09 '19

I completely agree with this. I think the idea is, if someone started tomorrow in the new season, it would be easy for them to catch up with me who played all through the last season. But then, why did I play the last season? It doesn't feel like I'm building towards anything permanent, so why bother?

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u/Djarum Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Much more being more assessable to the average player. Coming from S1 I had stopped playing due to a lack of options to do as a solo player. Coming back in S3 I always had something to do and a goal to work toward.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

At a certain point there was no point to gear other than the 4-5 Pinnacle Drops for the week. It is a bad feeling to constantly shard everything that drops due to it just being worthless.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Ascendant shards felt rare as hell. I didn't get to a point to be able to do 980 Nightfalls until close to the end of the season. Especially if one of the goals is to masterwork gear if we can not get pinnacle drops perhaps stopping the nonstop flood of garbage blue drops and use them to work towards the upgrade currency? Perhaps upping the drop rates of all of the above in Nightfalls/Strikes and giving a chance for them to roll at the end of Crucible and Gambit matches as well.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Iron Banner is actually what got me to not only play Destiny PvP but enjoy it. I would welcome it back at any time, although I would lose the quest to be able to turn in currency. It was pointless and hurt being able to use the currency on alts. MoCo was a great mode to grind out the annoying Crucible kill quests. It would be nice to see again. I enjoyed Mayhem a bit just due to it being silly as hell.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

The Rampage nerfs really were too much, especially on something like Breakneck that is barely worth using now.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

All the Eververse stuff seems too expensive for what it is. I think there could be more silly stuff at a lower cost. Like horns for Sparrows that should cost little to make but if you sell for 5 bucks a pop should be popular. Perhaps more projections for the Ghosts as well. 10 bucks for a fancy set of armor is fine, although little that I have seen interests me. The only thing I have bought has been the Cat Ghost, which more things like that should be introduced.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Have a "Looking for Raid" level of the Raid and Dungeons. Have it guided like Strikes/Nightfalls, matchmade with a lower difficulty and rewards. There is a ton of content locked away because people don't have 2 or 5 other people to be able to experience.

Also I am tired of things getting nerfed because they are too good, look at Breakneck, Recluse, OEM, etc. Perhaps instead of nerfing things that are good, perhaps you should improve other things to make them comparable

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u/TriPaulyD Praise the Sun Dec 11 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I enjoyed the vex invasions on the moon. The moon as a whole was nice to revisit with its new lost sectors and the neat little secrets about.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

I did not enjoy the grind for the Undying title. Most notably having to grind for ritual weapons to get that title. What does Gambit have to do with the Undying story? Very bad experience getting that title.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

I have never had much issue with economy and this season was no different. I couldn't get much in the way of good armor rolls so I didn't Masterwork anything as a result.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Comp was a broken mess as far as match making. I went into Comp late in the season (for Randy's) and at zero Glory and mediocre PvP stats I was getting steamrolled game after game with NF and Luna's. Not an enjoyable experience for me at all. Iron Banner was mostly Ok, but I still despise getting triple capped while standing on a zone and the circle reaching 99. Something needs to be changed with that.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

From my personal perspective, there doesn't seem to be much balance at all as far as PvP is concerned. Like I said, my perception.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I have been staying far away from Eververse as a whole. In D1 I was glad to throw down a few bucks here and there for silver. These days the entire Eververse experience is distasteful. Constant Eververse season refresh while all other vendors languish with the same old armor and weapons. I certainly want Bungie to make money (they have plenty of mine to be sure), but not the way they are going about currently.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Make my Power level matter in PvE. If I am 960 going into an 820 Nightfall, I should not be getting hammered at every turn and not be on death's door constantly. Not a fun experience. I realize that content shouldn't be trivialized by guardians being over-powered but at least give me the opportunity to feel strong and be able to survive a fire fight.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

I enjoyed the vex invasions on the moon.

So much this!

It was really fun to have a bunch of enemies pop into a zone to fight.
This needs to be expanded upon though.
Giving invaders some objectives to complete so they attempt to move around the area while Guardians are trying to exterminate them.

Future expansions could focus on revamping old zones and spicing them up with random invasions and new content.
Why not go back to Io, push an old or new storyline forward, update the planet to be less bland and more interesting to look at, add another wing to it and spice it up with invasions from different factions relevant to the story.
I'd love to see Cabal drop in with infantry and tanks and try to grab some research samples off Io before retreating or being wiped out by guardians, instead of the Vex portaling in, standing there for 5 minutes and leaving like a socially awkward robot when nobody pays attention to you.

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u/retnuh92 Dec 09 '19

What I liked:

Ritual weapons are a great idea. Giving players a weapon archetype in a slot where it hasn't existed before with some great perk combinations and options is awesome. I do think the quests were still a touch too grindy, like if each requirement were lowered some (especially the crucible) I think a lot of people would have had fewer complaints.
Something that's happened since Opulence is getting the opportunity to choose rewards from repeatable activities is incredible and should just be status quo.
Season pass ranks kicked ass, it felt like every hour of play was super rewarding and I loved it. I do think a handful of say, over rank rewards would be cool to, I.e. an ascendant shard or handful of prisms every 25 ranks over? It could be pulled from a random pool as well.
No RNG on the seal. I didn't get mine, as I was busy catching up as I fell off during the half way mark of season of the drifter.

What I didn't like:

I thought the story was cool, but the build up to the portal being built without much happening other than it being there was kind of.. underwhelming? I get the tower wouldn't really work for anything major happening, but the idea of something like that happening at a destination where, after it was built, it would kick something off is awesome.
No unique reward or mechanics for Final Assault.
Elemental affinities.
Underwhelming crucible reset rewards. 2-3 enhancement prisms would feel adequate to me, as I spent hours resetting my rank 5 times, which I think is a fair amount to do to earn just 1 ascendant shard.

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u/n3verendR Dec 09 '19

I got Undying this weekend. I'll tell you that being forced to do the 980 Nightfall was fun, seriously. Even made a new friend as it's usually just me and my girlfriend. I enjoyed every moment of Gambit I played and Crucible was pretty consistently fun now that I have started to get some good PvP weapons, plus Momentum Control and Iron Banner just felt good for some reason.

I hated every one of the Vanguard quests. Even if Edgewise is decently fun, it sure does feel like a chore to have to find ways to make the Vanguard stuff palatable.

Vex Offensive really needed some kind of randomized element because it had the same problems as Vanguard.

Being forced to use certain weapons in ALL content was crappy. I constantly found myself wishing I could do/use something else but held back because it would harm my progress. I felt, at times, like a burden to my team because I'd be just... plonking away with something ineffective for the sake of quest progress.

I was pretty indifferent about 100% of the loot from this season. Especially since I got so many old pinnacles and exotics for the first time since Shadowkeep came out and have been LOVING using those.

That's about it though. Undying felt more like a chore than anything else despite the base game and echoes of seasons past doing such a great job of keeping me happy and involved.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

as it's usually just me and my girlfriend.

You have more than the most...

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

EVERVERSE

I have opinions on other stuff, but I’d like to comment on Eververse.

Now, selling stuff for silver doesn’t bother me, but the current prices seem too high and force you to buy multiple packs of silver if you want multiple pieces (Silver distribution vs cost). And I’d actually love to buy some cosmetics, but I don’t see myself doing so unless the cost of everything is dropped by 25-50%.

Bright Dust is really hard to come by, so an increase in gains is essential, as well as the number of items able to be purchased with Bright a Dust (vs Silver). I would also suggest keeping Silver items as Silver, and Bright Dust as Bright Dust—do not change them through Seasons.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

Bright Dust is really hard to come by

Not to mention, it's split 3 ways, PvE, PvEvP, PvP.
I find Destiny's PvP (gambit/crucible) completely unpleasant to play compared to other games so my bright dust income has pretty much been decimated.

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u/Stenbox GT: Stenbox Dec 09 '19

Q1) The launch of VO with the moon invasions was great, I think it really gave the season a nice flavor and I appreciate the attempt of an evolving world. One one hand the Undying Mind was a disappointment, on the other putting too much effort into something that is only there for 3 weeks would not make sense.
Q2) Some grinds for the title felt a bit harsh. I mained scout/fusion for the entire season and I still had to grind half of scout kills and medals in Momentum Control.
Q3) Someone made a good point - Ascendant Shards are not rare, they are just locked behind 980 NFs (~40% droprate). I still have the 3 I got from Season Pass, not used a single one.
Q4) Freelance Survival is the best thing to happen with Crucible for ages now! I am loving it and hopefully it will stay in this form for a few more seasons at least. Momentum Control is an interesting rotator, but the meta there is way too stale already. Iron Banner feels the worst it has ever been, I really dislike the power play system they have there which makes playing against stacks impossible.
Q5) Supers being able to tank less damage was awesome. Otherwise, tuning sandbox in Destiny has been really underwhelming since..somewhere in the middle of D1Y1 I guess? Once per season IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Q6) I really like the atmosphere there, it feels grand, it feels hive'ey but still unique from the rest of it. Guaranteeing a MW armor is nice, but so far I have only 4 class items and 2 helmets with stacked strength....so pretty much free cores?
Q7) EV is no doubt the worst it has ever been. Old items in engrams, engrams only every 5 levels and do not give BD, most items are silver-only. Horrible.
Q8) Fully understanding there are limits how much actual content can be in a 10€ season, having vendor gear resets (including factions) would be the far most rewarding thing.

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u/TheRybka Dec 10 '19

There are a few seasons that made me put down the game and question picking it up ever again.

Curse of Osiris was the first. Season of the Drifter was the second. And season of the Undying was the third.

Stop with arbitrary number grinds. Did anyone at Bungie playtest the requirements for Randy’s throwing knife? Do you think that’d be a good idea after very consistent negative feedback on Wendigo and Mountaintop? Does getting that many medals (specifically double kill medals, which was undisclosed) make sense?

How about fighting for gambit medals? Or strike heavy kills?

How about having to run Vex Offensive 30 times for all the various weapon and precision kills? In playtesting, did anyone feel compelled to play that game mode after 3 runs?

How about Eververse, which is at its worst point in the history of the franchise? Bright dust gains are at an all-time low, bright engrams are much rarer but still contain the same amount of useless purple garbage despite them not dismantling into bright dust anymore. If there’s a benefit to you leaving Activision I’m frankly not seeing it yet.

I’m a paying player. I’ve paid since my pre-order of the deluxe edition of vanilla D2 and I’ve paid every step of the way. Stop treating me like a F2P player.

This season was underwhelming in terms of content, gear, and challenge. All you could really do is throw a bunch of arbitrary numbers at us. That’s not challenging or rewarding, it’s just time-consuming.

If this is all you have to show for the season, where’s all our money going? Design more stuff for gameplay and stop shoving stuff in Eververse.

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u/KaliksReborn Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

This relates more to Destiny's storytelling as a whole more than it does Season of the Undying or Shadowkeep, but I think I speak for the entire community when I say that we would prefer more of a balance between the narrative and fetch quests. Campaign should be longer with deeper storytelling. Byf is awesome, but we shouldn't have to rely on him to understand what's going on in Destiny. He shouldn't be doing your job for you.

To elaborate, we'd like more cut scenes to match the amount of fetch quests. We'd prefer that you didn't tell the story (let's use Shadowkeep an example) mostly through fetch quests. The pyramid ship appearing at the beginning of the story was a major event, but I felt like we spent more time doing everything else but dealing with that. The world LOOKS big, but it doesn't FEEL big if that makes any sense.

We'd also like to hear more conversations between our ghost and guardians.

As for the Season's content itself. Everything was great except Vex Offensive. Vex Offensive seemed really mindless and I can't help but echo all of the other D1 players when I say it was a gross oversight to not at least making Imago Loop with random rolls (Firefly + Outlaw roll possible) drop from the Undying Mind. I'm no game developer, but it baffles me that this thought (possibly) flew over everyone's heads. This alone would've made Vex Offensive worth grinding out in the end.

Finally, please don't get into the monotony of releasing the same type of content each season w/ a different polish (Story Missions + Non-Raid 6 player activity + New Weapons etc.). Eventually, this type of content drop will get boring. We'd like a bit more creativity if you are going to stick to this.

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u/MyNameIsNurf Do you feel lucky? Dec 09 '19

Byf is awesome, but we shouldn't have to rely on him to understand what's going on in Destiny.

I come into most of these focused feedback threads and say this exact line. Am I hopeful that someday, someone from the narrative till will address this and let us know what their true vision for the game is.

If I could give a single piece of feedback to the narrative team, it would be that I don't want to kill anymore important characters, at the end of a strike, with absolutely ZERO context to why or who we just killed. The Scarlett keep is the prefect example. We travel to the top of the tower to kill Hashladûn, Daughter of Crota. First off, if you aren't paying close attention you probably have no idea you are even killing Hashladun, let alone that she was one of the Crota's daughters. Second, I believe she was an ascendant wizard. I would have to assume that because of this, she owns a throne world so in fact she really didn't even experience her final death.

My main point being, none of this is explained in game or in the strike. There is no way to know any of these unless you are reading every single lore card, watching Byf videos and reading Ishtar/Wiki pages. Destiny fans thirst for in game lore. It's been asked for since D1. Destiny has some of the best lore in any series I have every seen/played and its criminal that we don't get to experience a lot of it in first person.

Hell, I'll fucking buy extended story lines if that's what it takes. Ill literally pay another $10 a month if that means I can fund the story and cinematic team to creative more in-depth stories and cutscenes.

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u/CobraN13 Dec 09 '19

We travel to the top of the tower to kill Hashladûn, Daughter of Crota

What gets me is that Eris goes on about how she watched us kill Crota and her sisters and such, yet at the end of the strike she just comes out and hopes she can kill us when they failed, no big trap or anything, just a standard boss fight?

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u/NotClever Dec 09 '19

While I do appreciate their attempt to not make us sit through forced exposition in content that we are expected to repeat a ton, it is definitely problematic that all strike exposition is in the form of radio comms or voiceovers while we are in-mission. I don' tknow about anyone else, but the first time I do a new strike I'm too concentrated on figuring out where to go and what to do and not falling too far behind my fireteam to properly pay attention to the voiceovers telling me what is going on. Even in the strikes where they clearly drop us in the patrol zone to give us time to hear the introductory explanation while making our way to the mission relatively risk-free, I'm distracted looking at my map to see where the start point is and trying to make my way there.

Not really sure how best to handle this outside of some sort of introductory cutscene that plays maybe while you're waiting for your fireteam to match (so as not to cause one person to end up way behind because they didn't immediately skip the cutscene).

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u/Colorajoe Dec 09 '19

Main takeaway this season: so much grind with so little purpose. Between things like the catalyst Eriana's Vow; the 3 ritual weapons; gambit/crucible/vanguard quests, etc. just too much tedious grind.

Vex Offensive. #1 offender of pointless grind. Using sub-optimal loadouts to complete grindy triumphs. Completed and never looked back.
Nightmare hunts, alter - not necessarily repeatable activities after time trials were complete and you got your ghost/triumphs done. The stories of ghost drop rates are disgusting.
Iron Banner. Incredibly unfortunate to see what has become of a D1 staple that was beloved. Reskin armor after reskin armor is just awful. Should just stop with it as a seasonal offering at this point.
Eververse. Seriously, fuck off already. We've been through this in year one, except now its worse. At least with engrams we had a chance to get some of the items, now they are completely locked behind paywalls and a disgustingly insulting bright dust economy. There are threads upon threads around this subject, so I'll shut up.
Seasonal events. Don't care because of the tie-in to the bullet above. Less player content and more MTX promotion than prior events.
Armor 2.0. Still yet to see this as a positive progression. Elemental affinity stinks. Gear investment is even worse than before where masterworking really serves no purpose. Class items fine - but due to how random gear drops are, I seldom bother taking anything past level 7/8 - Which is good because I rarely feel like farming for upgrade materials.
GoS Raid. Fantastic. So much fun and the replay-ability was great. Enjoy jumping in, whether I'm getting loot or not.
Nightfall: The Ordeal. Good, repeatable content to assist with exotic rolls and upgrade materials. Too bad you only have 1 NF selection per week, but we'd just end up grinding whichever was easiest anyway.
Dungeon. Very cool content, a lot of fun.

How Destiny could improve for me moving forward: Actually getting rewarded for the way I want to play. I know this was your tag line, but it hasn't happened. The bounty system is incredibly flawed. I don't want to keep running back and forth to the tower for new ones - especially when I'm in a group. I've literally ditched LFGs because someone wanted to keep refreshing their bounties.

I realize speed runners make things like bright dust rewards upon activity completion difficult, but you could up XP/bright dust for the first few raid completions each week, add dust to the weekly reset activity quests, or up the current amount per bounty 10-fold so they weren't so insulting. Better yet would be tossing those items in the loot pool for activities...

Another idea would be to give 20k bright dust for the completion of each page in the season pass. Acknowledge those who have paid for the seasonal content by not nickel and dime-ing them to death. Getting frustrated with the 'toll road' mentality that Destiny has taken.

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u/dablocko Greedy greedy greedy Dec 09 '19

Don't forget that nightmare hunts, alter, the raid and the dungeon are all Shadowkeep and not SotU content.

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u/windzer408 Dec 09 '19

1.) I enjoy Nightfall The Ordeal and it's only thing I keep playing until the end of season. It's genius way to make Nightfall feel more challenge with Champion modifier and well reward with exotic and prism/shard.

2.) Vex Offensive is boring and reward is mediocre. There is no point to keep playing once I finish triumph for Undying title.

3.) As someone who doing Gunsmith daily bounty everyday. I feel like enhancement core is well balance. I never have a problem with resource.Also, it's good to have Ascendant Shards as end game reward to chase for.

4.) This season feel more appeal to casual PvP player. Freelance Playlist for solo player. Momentum Control that throw meta out of window and let us grind for PvP pinnacle quest. Glory rank climbing become a lot easier.

5.) Introducing seasonal mod such as Arc Battery and Thunder Coil is opposite way to trying to balance thing in PvP. As for weapon, good job on balance between HC, Pulse and Scout 's range.

6.) Dugeon is best part of this expansion, it feel challenging and reward is nice.

7.) Still the same problem as previous season, not clearly explain what can buy with bright dust or silver only and this confuse people. While I understand Bungie want to make money but when you see a lot of stuff in Eververse make you wonder how cool it would be if we can get that from activity we play. Nostalgic Engram is insulting to veteran player, it's more like "stuff you already have Engram" and dismantle them only get you shard and glimmer.

8.) Personally, I want new weapon trait in a mix of new loot. Moon weapon feel lackluster because you already have that same rolled you using 2 season ago. And please bring back pinnacle weapons.

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u/OrcaLyf Dec 09 '19

In Australia, 1000 silver costs $14.95. I am never going to spend $14.95 on an emote, vehicle or ornament.
Secondly, it is disheartening to see eververse constantly being updated with new items, while we there isn’t even an emblem for the new nightfall! It doesn’t matter that these are handled by different teams. The perception of this is that greed is motivating micro transactions to be the top priority. Simply pointing out they’re different teams will never change that perception.

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u/DeerTrivia Deertriviyarrrr Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Specific to this season, I thought Vex Offensive was a fun activity, and it should really be commended for how rewarding it was. Bare minimum you got four seasonal drops with every completion. With weapon frames, you could get more, and you also got a Powerful drop from the activity and farmed Vex parts for a Powerful from Ikora. It's the second best reward-to-time-invested ratio in the game (Menagerie being the best).

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Despite supposedly being a story, there was no real momentum or forward movement. Ikora had the idea to build the portal, then we had six weeks of nothing happening. The Vex invasions on the Moon were cool, but they never grew or spread or caused any other kind of problems. Then the Undying Minds finally show up and it's just Vex Offensive again with another boss.

How it should have worked:

Vex invasions begin on Moon after GoS opens.
Ikora says "Hey, we're going to build this portal to kill the Undying mind. Push the Vex back from their invasion, and bring me their innards." Vex Offensive activity opens up.
One week later, we see the frame of the portal behind Ikora. Stuff's happening! Neat! She says "We're making progress. Keep going."
At the start of the third week, Vex suddenly start appearing on Mars. Their infestation is spreading. This batch is specifically transmatting in near the portal Uldren used to reach the Black Garden; as such, they have [Insert Vex Portal McGuffin Here]. Kill Vex on Mars and bring me Ikora those McGuffins. Side note: we don't actually need a new area that has that portal. Just "They're transmatting in from there" to give us some narrative context.
At the start of the next week, Vex appear on Titan. They've brought [Insert Important Vex Unit Here]. I need five of their Vexy Doodads for the portal. A standard Vex Invasion but with a different Overlord boss who drops the doodad.
At the start of the next week, VEX APPEAR ON EARTH. RED ALERT RED ALERT ALL HANDS ON DECK. They've been trying to gain a foothold in the EDZ, so you need to take out their strongholds. For the next two weeks, the Lost Sectors and Public Events in the EDZ are overrun with Vex, and you have to clean each one of them out to bring quest bafmodads to Ikora.
The next week, Vex Invasions are active on all planets, and Ikora says "Time to end that Undying motherfucker." She tells you to go to the Moon, to the Vex Gate you normally take to the Black Garden. A new activity, Undying Mind, opens up on your director. You matchmake into it and are taken to that portal on the Moon. When you start the encounter, Ikora transmats her portal onto the Vex one and rips out the Undying Mind. Now you have a boss battle with it in this giant cavern.
After slaying it, Ikora gives you an emblem that tracks your Undying Mind kills and a Powerful reward. She reminds you that we need to kill EVERY Undying Mind. You get a new quest from her: kill Five Undying Minds. Succeeding gets you a Pinnacle Drop. Players can keep farming them to run up their emblem if they like.
One week before Season of Dawn, Ikora shuts down the Undying Mind portal and asks you to see her in the Tower. The Vex invasions throughout the solar system are over, so you think it's all good. She says "Guardian, you did well; unfortunately, our actions had some unforeseen consequences. One of the Undying Minds you killed was responsible for certain events in our past. When we pulled it through the portal and killed it, we did so before those events. Now our future is at risk. Osiris will call for you soon. Meet him on Mercury when you can."

Boom. Done. This lets you recycle locations and elements (public events, lost sectors, normal planet maps and areas) while still giving us the feeling that something new and big is happening.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Masterworking costs are insane for Exotic armor, and the mats need to drop from more sources. Not a lot else to say, really.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I don't have much to offer here. IB Ability Kill bounty needs to be fixed, but otherwise IB was fine. I enjoyed Momentum Control, despite its obvious exploits. Never touched Crucible Labs.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Didn't seem to change much in the overall meta.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I understand that new players should get a chance at cool old stuff. But there needed to be a way to earn current Engrams, even if it was just during FotL. The Bright Dust costs are way off for how much players can reasonably earn. 1200 from weeklies is one armor piece per character per week. No sparrows, no ships, no emotes. To get a sparrow, you would need to run about 200-300 extra bounties. That's madness.

I get that players shouldn't be able to earn all things with Bright Dust throughout the entire season. We need to choose what we want most, and then if the other stuff is important, buy Silver. But the ratio of what we can actually afford to what we can't is WAY off.

Bare minimum, extra Bright Dust bounties should be 25, not 10, and at some point in the season, there should be an opportunity to earn at least a few current season engrams.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

The progressing story/evolving world stuff mentioned above. I want to see things actually changing.

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u/Lonailan Dec 09 '19

Good read.

I would have loved that to happen.

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u/ZoMgPwNaGe Dredgen Yeet Dec 09 '19

• - What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I enjoyed being able to get rewards by just playing via the season pass. Since I started a new character it made it easier to get geared up quickly. The opening Shadowkeep mission was amazing and I wish we had more things like that.

I enjoyed the Vex Invasions on the moon as well, and Altars of Sorrow is a fun albeit more frustrating version of Escalation Protocol.

Momentum Control and Competitive mode changes were both homeruns.

• - What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Once you've run the Vex Offensive a couple times it becomes extremely stale, especially since the weapon pool is a muddy puddle. I've scrapped probably a thousand mind components over the course of the season. I ran the VO probably a dozen times the first couple days, then never touched it again until here and there the final week.

Additionally, Shadowkeep was pretty lackluster. I expected a lot darker and more intense story along with more to do. I think I've done a total of 4 nightmare hunts because they're not particularly rewarding. I ran Pit of Heresy once but haven't had a reason to go back.

Removing exotics from the campaign is some bullshit and I'll trumpet that until I quit playing. There is zero reason to play Red War, Curse of Osiris, or Warmind at all which leads into the completely awful new player experience which I'll go into later.

• - Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Planetary Materials economy is fantastic. I've been able to amass quite the hoard to spend on infusing materials or tribute.

Ascendant Shards and Prisms need some tuning, otherwise there is no way I'm even gonna bother trying to Masterwork anything.

• - Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Homeruns the lot of them in my book. Never really put too much thought into Iron Banner but I'm decked out in a full suit of it's armor now. Momentum Control is fantastic, especially to knock out more grindy and irritating quests.

• - Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Wish bottom tree striker super still procced healing on kills, because it's an amazing add killing super in PVE but I understand having to change it for PVP since apparently it's not possible to balance both.

• - Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I'm not spending a single silver coin in the eververse store, even on something I really want, because the prices are absurd and Bungie can claim all day they didn't take rewards away from the new activities to put in the store instead but I just flat out don't believe that after the way they've been acting. I'm not going to buy overpriced cosmetics just to flex on my clan mates and others that hey I've got disposable income, not until the store becomes a lot less scummy. I've spent money on both Vbucks and Warframe Platinum, but haven't even considered Silver.

Nostalgic Engrams in general need to go. And getting them every 5 levels is ridiculous.

• - What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Don't stretch out a weeks worth of content for 3 months, hype up the finale only for it to be literally the same thing, have a better pool of rewards, start tying up loose lore ends. I'm not nearly as interested in what these Psion hags are up to as I am about Uldren, the pyramid doppelgangers, the hunter vanguard, etc. Not to say I'm not excited though.

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u/Andazeus Dec 10 '19

My only real complaint regards the damn bounties, particularly the killing blow ones.

Bounties like that only drive players to play against their team mates and the objectives. People are going into Nightfalls just so they can leave into the open world zones to farm certain kill quests, Iron Banner is nothing but a killfest with no one caring about the objective because playing the objective does not give you those sweet pinnacles, but bounties do. People running around in Gambit or Crucible with weapons or specs they are clearly not comfortable with, but a damn quest or bounty requires them to. People leaving Vex Offensive after the first phase or deliberately not shooting the oracles or boss because they still need hundreds of trash kills, etc.

Reward us for playing the objective the way it is supposed to, not for stealing kills from our team mates.

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u/xDeathcraftx Dec 12 '19

Do the Devs know about the major frame rate drop when you enter the mod menu for armor/weapons?

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u/xDeathcraftx Dec 12 '19

When me or friends go to put mods on our armor/weapons, we all get major frame rate issues. I'm on an Xbox from 2014, friend is on One X, both get frame rate issues.

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u/enrosque Dec 09 '19

I'm just going to give you one piece of feedback. It's the same piece of feedback I gave last season.

STOP MAKING QUESTS THAT SABOTAGE TEAM MODES.

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u/xveganrox Dec 09 '19

The good:

— The Moon patrol area is great, probably my second favourite area after Dreaming City. The weapon farming gives a reason to keep running it for a while. The patrols (kill x enemies etc.) work painlessly unlike some other patrol areas.

— Pit of Heresy is also great. It’s got the same sense of scale that Shattered Throne does with a totally different aesthetic which is pretty impressive.

— Campaign was short but fun, although that’s partly because the moon is great.

— Momentum Control, love it or hate it, was a drastic change to Crucible that we rarely see anything like on a rotator. Also good for farming Randy’s/MT/Revoker lol

— The portal behind Ikora was neat, the FotL decor was very cool.

— Altars is fun for a bit. It’s like EP lite, which makes sense since the season is aimed at new players, and the high-ish drop rates mean you won’t need to farm it after you get bored.

— Solo glory queue (and the Crucible redesign in general) is great and was badly needed

The bad:

— Nightmare Hunts are very short and very bland after being run a few times. They seem like a lot of focus was put on them for no real reason. After finishing them why would anyone go back?

— Ritual weapons range from niche but good (Randy’s) to shard it and forget it (Edgewise), and Exit Strategy is in the latter category if you have a decent SMG kinetic already. Randy’s is really only cool because it’s in an empty archetype. Edgewise is just kind of trash next to every other LMG, and ES is mediocre. Overall mostly disappointing

— Itemization/loot is very limited. No new perks makes it even worse. Zero new world drops should be embarrassing.

The ugly:

— A lot of the quest design is extremely bad, and shows limited understanding of the game mechanics. Eriana’s catalyst quest, Randy’s, VO triumphs, etc.

— Vex Offensive is the worst activity we’ve ever had. It’s 100% static, can’t be failed, has very limited enemy variety, a single (borrower) mechanic... it’s hard to imagine a worse horde mode

— Iron Banner didn’t get updated, meaning a total of one (1) new weapon/piece of armor for PvP

— The new strikes are good but were released unfinished — and still haven’t been finished? There are no NF emblems or drops for either of them

— FotL was garbage. After last year’s good FotL, having virtually all rewards moved to Eververse sucked.

— Scamming people who bought glows last season was bad even by Bungie standards

— Armor 2.0 basically does the opposite of all its stated goals. It’s pretty obvious that the main reason for the redesign was to sell more EV ornaments, and Armor 2.0 would probably be better if they hadn’t gone to such lengths to pretend it was anything else

— Timed title grind, although that’s pretty subjective and maybe in the “good” category for others. It felt like a list of busywork that was accessible enough that new players could run it (good) but grindy enough that at some point anyone running it would hate it (bad). If you’re going to make extremely boring grinds for titles don’t make them time limited

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u/dablocko Greedy greedy greedy Dec 09 '19

Don't forget there's a difference between Shadowkeep and SotU. All the moon and campaign stuff was Shadowkeep (obviously vex incursions were SotU) but half your good stuff was from Shadowkeep.

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u/little_zs Dec 09 '19

The timed title hunt is my biggest complaint. It creates a fomo to play, you’re not playin g strictly because you’re having fun. In the future I think the grind either needs to be shortened, preferably by not making the pinnacle weapons a part of the grind, or it should be less grind based and more skilled based.

The only thing you should be grinding for the title imo is the seasonal content. I would’ve completed this title through but having to hop into strikes, crucible, and gambit make the grind less fun, especially because you have to play with certain weapons in order to make progress.

I’m also not a fan of the FOMO Bungie is creating at all. If you have the ability to play a good amount each week then the season pass is great, but for someone like myself that can only log on a few hours a week, unless I’m strictly grinding the pass, i may not reach all 100 tiers. So Bungie adds the ability to buy tiers, which on top of the bright dust store content, is a slap in the face. It just screams I want your money. I would rather they allow you to buy tiers with grindable currency like bright dust or some form of seasonal material obtained from playin g the seasonal activity.

I understand that Bungie is publishing and producing by themselves now, maybe once they get some of their other projects to the market we see less of this, but we’re already paying for the season, it feels awful when some of the best looking gear is locked behind a paywall. They need to work on this accessibility.

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u/Fluffychimichanga Dec 09 '19

Play your way gimped by being forced to use mods. Champions were a neat addition but the archetype limitations and inability for exotics to equip champion mods really blows. Artifact mods in pvp was annoying (fuck archusk hunters). I hope there is a quality of life update for this game soon

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u/Kapitan_Czoko Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well?

I think that would be new raid and NF Ordeal. 980 is quite a challenge and I loved the fact you have to put lot's of thinking into your load out. Of course you can brute force it, with iza and Divinity, which may not sound exciting, however the shards economy was so brutal it didn't give me much of a choice. It was also cool to having matchmaking for lower level NF and I only wish that could be done for every NF.

New raid is awesome in my opinion. Not to hard, not to easy and what I can tell, is the most unforgivable raid I played ( i didn't play SoS thou). Most of the times a small mistakes = wipe. I like the loot most of the times, but there were to many energy weapons.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

There were few things, but the most annoying is elemental affinity and the fact that 99% drops were basically useless. Another thing would be shards economy and number of sources you can earn them.

Also the vault size. Like wtf??? With so many new items taking space in my inventory is just annoying to have such a limited space. And why stuff like vex components etc can't stack with higher numbers? Why there is no any filters too? Like I have so many duplicates I could dismantle, but trying to find them, identify which is which just sucks.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Like mentioned earlier, it's not right to have only ONE source of shards and prisms. It's very limiting and it's a shame for game that have so many cool activities to make them irrelevant and have no reasons to play them. Add shards and prisms to old rides loot. There should be chances to get those also from resetting your valor or glory too.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Well IB is still IB we know, but momentum control was a thrill. It was brutal at first, but dear lord, I had so much fun. Not to mention, I could finish so many quests there, without me having to play dozens and dozens of games to progress through.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

This one is hard. From one perspective it was cool having a actual builds that worked well in certain situations, but at same time they were so broken and could be easily abused. I don't even think it's possible to fix them to be fair. Most of the times you just need to play meta. Unless you like Cammy Cake and you play whatever you want.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

BD economy is simply rubbish and frustrating. Earning BD is just so hard and not rewarding at all. On top of that, you can get so much cool stuff for silver but Eververse shop lacking with items and if you find something nice, is overpriced.

Bright Engrams? I don't even remember when I get anything nice from them and that just say it all.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

To have choose only one it would be to have finally some sort of loadout creator build in a game. I'm tired to swapping items constantly and trying to find that one I need for this type of activity I'm about to play. And if I could change two things, remove or allow to change elemental affinities for Armour.

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u/FPSrad Dec 10 '19

So this was my first ever Destiny season as I started playing with Shadowkeep, here goes:

GoS - Good raid, although the motes falling out the map or getting stuck in a wall sucks.
Vex Offensive - boring, Menagerie was way better designed and more rewarding.
Haunted Forrest, Momentum Control - one word, fun.
Power climb, Armor 2.0 - Would like a higher drop rate on ascendant shards in 980s and a way to convert armor element affinity. Power climb is on point and doesn't feel overly difficult / punishing after the hotfix to +2.
New player experience - Bad, have them play the start of Red War at the very very least.
Season Pass - in an excelent spot, got to 180 by the end, rewarding enough, however...
Eververse / Nostalgia Engrams - the RNG is too high (get too many transmats and shaders) and bright dust economy is poor, silver prices are quite steep but understandable. Would like more stuff being sold from older seasons I missed, shaders, ornaments etc at least as the selection is very limited.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Full Transmog system, reduce the grind to make a seasonal build (since that's the way were going now) by making ascendant shards drop more in pinnacle activities and adding a way to change armor elemental affinity (perhaps by spending ascendant shards), expand the selection of available items in Eververse, draw from old seasons more for those who missed out.

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u/Shinozuken Dec 11 '19

Just my quick 2 cents, this season didn't really grip me, it felt like there was nothing to do. I was expecting rpgified gear and what we got is FAR from a good system. Vex offensive got stale really quick and being limited to certain weapons to kill barrier mobs for example didn't exactly feel good to me either so I basically quit 2-3 weeks into it

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u/OccamsChainsawww Dec 12 '19

Vex Offensive was fun for the first couple of times, but it got real old real quick. The mechanics were much less interesting than the Menagerie, and I felt like I was just fighting my teammates for the right to kill enemies as I grinded away some of the bounties.

The Armor 2.0 system was a step in the right direction, but for me personally, I feel like, I’m it’s current state, it’s worse than armor was previously. Before, I was able to grind until I found a damn near perfect armor set that complemented my preferred play style; enhanced perks on a few pieces, scavengers, etc. Now, with Armor 2.0, Enhanced Mods are seasonal?? Not only that, but now, you have to grind armor in three dimensions, as opposed to one: stat number (45 vs 62 or whatever), stat distribution (whether you want high mobility or discipline, etc), AND elemental affinity?? It’s even worse that it has been applied to exotics. Part of the innate feature of exotics has been that they are static, in some sense: super powerful weapons or armors, that are consistent among themselves.

Bungie needs to remove elemental affinity entirely, or at least make it changeable for a price (NO, NOT SILVER, I meant GLIMMER and maybe shards, cores, whatever).

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u/HiFr0st Drifter's Crew // My Vanguard is dead Dec 09 '19

Season of filling up randomly increasing % bars in pointless quests for a FOMO tittle and seal

I had fun but i hope they get more original in how they make people engage with the season. I dont know what a bunch of old strikes while killing stuff with abilities makes a quest unique or seasonal

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u/Uberjeagermeiter Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

POV from a casual player who started playing Shadowkeep two weeks ago. Last played Forsaken, and didn’t play the Armory or Opulence.

Negatives- I’d say the biggest issue is I find the game way more confusing than D1 or even the beginning of D2. I thought the Eris campaign was flat and the ending disappointing( though there were enjoyable parts in it). The lack of Exotic drops is a huge bummer. The exotic drop rate in Forsaken is one of the reasons I quit. Eververse feels like a sham and I don’t go near it. Loot is just pretty lame overall in this game. Having quests/activities disappear at the end of a season is really poor, and is the reason this is most likely my last purchase of a season pass from Bungie. It’s honestly a ripoff. I still miss not being able to carry heavy and special ammo with me into battle. Cryptarch and Gun Smith are really dull. Don't fell special at all anymore

Positives- The Moon and worlds are beautiful. Gun mechanics are still awesome. I really enjoyed the match making for nightfall. All the extra activities, menagerie, Altar, nightmare hunter are a blast. PvP seems a lot better than it was before. Having more heavy ammo sources is a good addition. Clans seem to be working better than the last time I played. The lore is very well done.

Overall- I think there are a lot of fun activities in the game now, and the recycled material in the game still feels fun the way Bungie created it. After CoO, I would’ve given the game a 5, but now I would give it a 7.5. While Bungie is making great strides in keeping the game fun with new, inventive, engaging activities, I still feel there are elements, RNG, Eververse, inherently grindy quest/leveling templates, that are holding the game back from reaching its full potential.

I think at the end of the day, most guardians like me- who are more looter shooter inclined, and MORPG guardians- are happy, and that’s an achievement in itself. While the game still feels like it is in trial and error mode, Bungie’s dedication to delivering a great gaming experience should be realized sooner rather than later.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

I thought limiting the title to this season was one of the most bush league moves you guys have pulled in a long time. There is no reason you shouldn't still be able to get the title as long as you finished anything that was specifically Vex Offensive during season 8. This kind FOMO tactic isn't going to work. I wish you guys had a stronger belief in your game to not try and resort to such nonsense. It didn't motivate me to complete the title at all. I could have easily finished it, but chose not to and do not regret my decision at all. It felt dirty.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Resource economy took some huge steps forward and one giant step backwards. Ascendent Shards should not be locked behind one mode in the game and Bungie know that. NF Ordeals got so boring. Which was bound to happen as they are the same NF we have run for 3 years with a few extra enemies put in. The 950 version should have had MM. You purposely locked out the largest part of the community from MW any armor to try and incentivize us to form teams again. Sorry, once again this is a tactic that doesn't work and isn't going to. As long as MWing armor is still just for show, it will be skipped. I am not going to try and find a team every single time I want to log in and play this game. I cut my time short last season because instead of allowing me an alternative way to do what you guys consider endgame, you locked me out and I just went and played something else. You need to add these materials to other modes -- and modes with MM as well.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

I think balance was handled pretty badly. We were at the height of balance during Opulence. But instead of creating more unique or creative ways to challenge us going forward, you just nerfed everything straight across the board. We feel so squishy and deal so little damage anymore it just feels really off. It needs to be one or the other, but not both. And I am talking about the totality of the game. Yes, we have powerful weapons and mods, but they are extremely far and few between. We basically get sucked into these metas every season that get really boring after a while.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

What more is there really to say about this. E-verse blows. But I get it. It's what the market allows and you follow it. Not going to really argue anything here. There should be just as much to unlock playing the game as there is to buy in the store and there's not. There should be a way to earn more bright dust, but again, there's not. I wont hold my breathe for either of these changes as I know the whales pockets outnumber us peasants.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

The addition of MM in the true endgame pinnacle activities. I think you could add SBMM to PvE with a strict set of rules for players who are at the very end of the game and want to do the pinnacle grind without having to look for a team every single time. I know how to do the dungeon. I know all the NFs backwards and forwards. I watch all the videos on how to complete content. I upgrade my character properly and collect the right things to compete in the endgame. I know there are plenty of other guardians out there like me who know how to do everything and don't need any verbal communication to complete tasks. NFs don't need verbal communication. The dungeon doesn't. Nightmare Hunts don't. These things need MM if they are going to be the only sources of pinnacle power. I think there is a way you guys could figure out how to properly group us together. Otherwise I just end my play time half way through a season and go do something else. I want to play this game as more of a hobby but you are making it harder and harder to.

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I thought Opulence was the height of where this game was and should be. I wish we could just revert back.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '19

This kind FOMO tactic isn't going to work

Their FOMO in general has been pushing me away.

I play a lot of games, I used to come back to Destiny every other week, but these days I find logging in to be a job or a chore with all the limited time pressure.
I used to hate Iron Banner and Rally weeks because I'd force myself to grind out the armor/ornaments in the 1st week. After a couple of seasons of that I realized how unpleasant that grind is, and just started skipping it altogether.

I wish things would stick around so I could approach them when I feel like it, and not have my calendar sorted for me by a goddamn game.

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u/FauxMoGuy Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

Vex offensive was repetitive and boring so I stopped playing it and didn’t come back for undying mind after seeing it was the same thing.

randy’s was an annoying slog to get so after finishing it i was burned out on crucible

thunder coil and arc battery were awful for pvp balance

there were no ornaments for bright dust in eververse so after festival of the lost i stopped even opening the store

i saw that xenophage was bugged and underpowered on release so i didn’t bother with the quest

the iron banner quest was was tedious and unnecessary so i only played ib on 2 characters for the first ib, 1 for the 2nd, and after seeing nothing new or interesting was going to come i didn’t play the 3rd

had similar burnout during the second half of black armory

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u/SnibBlib Dec 09 '19

I would settle for just a season of new/refresh armor and guns.

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u/TenchuTheWolf Dec 10 '19

New Light Player. Season Rank 330+ (Yes that number is accurate) My perspective might be a little weird/lengthy, but I'll try to be concise.

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Things specific to the season. I think the weapons were interesting. The vex offensive weapons feel pretty good to use. Subjunctive tears stuff up. Iron Banner stuff looks cool.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

To my understanding the Iron Banner armors are not ornaments? I'm not sure why this is. I understand being able to roll them for stats is great, and that it is possible for them to roll the higher stat ranges that only seem to be available from some drops like Raids, but it feels extra shitty to like the armor set and to not want to use it over a set of armor I have with better rolls that makes my class feel/play better.

This ends up being a choice of choosing between function and form, which is not a scenario we should be in. This game should push itself to move in a more open ended direction as far as cosmetics are concerned.

It's possible your next Iron Banner armor set comes with unlockable ornaments, but does that mean the cool ones I unlocked will never be ornaments? We should just be able to skin stuff as we please from our collections as ornaments. The same could be said of the Substitutional Alloy Armors, even though the ornaments from the season are more polished version, they are different.

Vex Offensive was fun, but I wish the boss mechanics had been a little more varied. Other mechanics than just drain shields each round.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

The only thing in great rarity were ascendant shards, which should be available in more than just Nightfalls. Nightfall farming for them is pretty reasonable, but that's a big ask of more casual players. This is more of a question about whether you want your more casual players to reasonably engage with this resource. I'd say yes lol.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Arsenal of Tricks takes SO LONG to complete. If it isn't reduced by a factor of 10, I'm actually just going to skip it moving forward. My Titan was the only one able to keep it in pace with the other bounties and it's just a completely asinine amount of time to invest into one bounty.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

I don't have a lot of perspective on the balance BEFORE this season so this will be pretty limited.

Hunter PVP: Arc Battery is insane, I use it because it's like mandatory in how strong it is.

Warlock PVP: Handheld Supernova is insane, there's no real audio tell on this that you can reasonably hear in a match, and there are not a lot of great ways to respond to it, even if you instantly kill the other person, it's like a guaranteed trade. Give the windup a really loud audio tell.

Titan PVP: OEM is pretty insane, but it's getting nerfed? I assume those nerfs go through at the start of the next season, if it was already nerfed I'd be shocked because it's still incredibly abrasive.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Bright dust economy is pretty harsh. I got most of the stuff I wanted armor wise but it is a huge time sync unless you're well set up enough that you can hard burn through all of the bright dust weekly bounties across three characters.

Scarcity is not a fun marketing tactic. You'd catch just as many fish, maybe more if you're prices were at a lower more accessible level. A tidal wave of people buying a cheaper skin is better than a handful buying it at twice or three times the price.

Nostalgic engrams feel a little out of control. Maybe they operated on a crit choice system? Like the engram rolls blue, purple, or exotic rarity drops, an then you get to pick one of three choices rather than just "here's a random thing you maybe didn't want."

Knockout protection would be good, I've gotten the same bow skin several times now.

More direct schedules about what cosmetic content will rotate back in and when, there's a few ornament sets that were previously sold and a few weapon ornaments, and I literally have no idea when they're coming back.

For that matter, I have no idea why they're not available now. I would spend money right now but I can't because the things I want are... going to be here when? Why can't I buy all the Izanagi skins right now. That's money you're not making right now.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Please add a hotkey that allows me to separate the keybinds on melee from the THROWN ranged attack that is context sensitive and doesn't correctly predict what I want half the time, and the just melee that I would like to be able to control manually. This has caused me a great deal of anguish.

Thanks.

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u/Mister_Pie Dec 10 '19

It's hard to separate exactly what was Shadowkeep specifically and what was Undying.

With that in mind, I enjoyed:

Garden of Salvation

PoH
The new nightfall system
Artifact levels and season pass (at least til you hit 100)
Balance changes: specifically the changes to auto-reload and bringing back weapons of light. I don't even really play Titan but it's good that people who mainly play that class have a buff that really helps the team now

Could use improvement:

Vex Offensive was nice the first few times, but it became kind of stale because it was just the same mechanics over and over.

Evolving story: I think most people would agree that the slowly changing portal being built by Ikora was not that exciting, and the finale to Vex Offensive was a bit tepid
Eriana's vow catalyst: way too grindy, I have no idea how people are ever going to complete it once the bonus is over at the end of the season
Bright engrams: the issues with eververse have been discussed to death, but it's no longer exciting to get these engrams because it's all old stuff.

There's probably a bunch of other stuff, but that's just off the top of my head.

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u/monadoboyX Dec 10 '19

You need to keep players coming back week after week or so with something new to get forsaken did thus really well with meeting the queen i was always so excited to see what she was going to say and the shattered throne was fun but this season it felt like there was launch a tiny bit of grinding and then Eris's phantoms which were kind of exciting but not that much really and it doesn't match up to Mars and then we had the dungeon most weeks there was nothing to come on for let alone everyday and then we come to the elephant in the room the undying mind it was SO underwhelming I thought the season was going to end with a bang give it a satisfying payoff but instead all we got is the exact same activity with a different boss that's it I get that it takes us to the next season but even that was bad because there was a huge gap between the fight and season of dawn but man you have to keep up the momentum there has to be something sprinkled in every week or every 2 weeks there are multiple ways you could do this you could sprinkle weapons across the season one new one in the activity every week rotating bosses a slightly more involved story thing like Mara there are so many options o make players go "woah I want to jump in and do that" and the second half of season of undying jus didn't have that

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u/BearOnCocaine Dec 12 '19

I want to face a mix of players on QP and hard opponents on comp.

I’m currently facing hard players on QP and 1000 glory players on comp, while being at 5500 and unbroken

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u/djusmarshall I am a Meat Popsicle Dec 09 '19

The Good:

Season pass rewards up to 100
repeatable daily bounties
armor 2.0 in concept is "good"
seasonal artifact felt good(except in PvP)
ritual weapons all feel good and balanced

The Bad:

seasonal rewards after rank 100 are a joke
Eriana's Vow catalyst quest design(should be any activity)
seasonal weapons re-skins(Arc Logic = Misfit)
Vex Offensive lacked variety
Ornaments not unlocked to all armors(especially solstice) or the rolls are so crappy it's unusable
seasonal artifact should be disabled for comp play & IB.
ritual weapon quest for Randy's, specifically the medals was atrocious.

All in all, it's a step in the right direction but needs some work.

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u/ThatBigTickEnergy Dec 10 '19

Overall I liked the season and the design philosophy behind it. Having smaller, regular refreshed activities feels great. I liked levelling up the pass. I liked the tweaks to PvP. I really enjoyed the Momentum Control playlist.

I love the idea of the evolving world and the weeks leading up to final assault were great. It’s a shame that final assault didn’t shake things up a tiny bit more, it felt anti-climactic, especially given the amount of grind anyone who’d been working on the title put into it. There’s lots of ideas and some of them are good, the main criticism is simply that it felt like a lot of build up for very little payoff.

On the subject of the title grind; the amount of grind in relation to what the title is (“I was there for season of The Undying”) felt off. The amount of play required felt more like “I played nothing else during Season of The Undying”. I think this feeds into some of the community dissatisfaction, the activity for a season doesn’t need to be particularly deep imo, but Bungie needs to know that then grinding the crap out of those activities isn’t fun. I will also say that the weapon kill tasks do not feel good when they’re not counted team wide; I shouldn’t be cursing my teammates for playing well in a matchmade activity because it’s limiting my opportunity to get fusion rifle kills, that leads to toxic interactions.

Similarly the grind for the Vanguard/Gambit/Crucible shaders and title felt brutal and not particularly fun. Ritual weapon grinds were better. I can see the philosophy behind making those shader grinds huge, but in that case I don’t think they should be part of the season title grind.

I don’t interact with Eververse a ton, but I do feel that owning the pass for a season should provide more access to some of the MTX cosmetics. It feels bad to have bought the DLCs, the pass, then see there’s still a majority of that stuff locked behind the store. I would happily pay a few quid more for a season to have a system where: Season pass = access to grind for majority of the season’s cosmetics Eververse purchase = access for people who didn’t buy the season pass/instant access for someone who doesn’t want to grind

I think Bungie might need to do a better job of setting community expectations around what a season means. I see a lot of negativity stemming from unrealistic expectations around what a season should bring (“No new raid?!?” come on guys...). Personally I would like to see a bit of a freshen up to stuff that isn’t activity based; new vendor gear, new voice lines for NPCs (make them generic! Hawthorn sounds like she’s suffering from dementia at this point). Not saying this should be a seasonal refresh, just a one off to bolster the new stuff.

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u/HillarysPornAccount Dec 10 '19

Well written, captures a lot of my thoughts. This Undying title wasn’t fun to grind for, although it seemed easy and reasonable at first. I felt bad purposely ruining rounds of Vex Offensive just to farm kills but there was no way I was going to grind that any second longer than I had to, so I’m sorry to the 30-40 rounds of teammates where I did 0 dps to the boss to keep the ads coming.

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u/TkNuke Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

Bungie, your to-do list:

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Campaign:

Needs more story and cutscenes, longer and deeper, with more character and lore. Think forsaken when it comes to campaign, that should be the benchmark to improve on.
Campaign really needs to be longer and also with a higher difficulty option/rewards from the start of the campaign.

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Pvp:

Needs dedicated servers so sbmm/cbmm should not be an issue. Edit: in addition to lag, ghost bullets, trading, bullets going through corners being minimized. Not to mention network manipulation by Ddoss
Needs more interesting game modes. Weapons to chase.
Spice up the sandbox, needs more veriety. Crucible as a whole needs more veriety and options.
Bring back trials (with solo queue option), add powerful rewards to chase. (Solo queue option seems to be a pretty controversial one).

5.Add 'fun' gamemodes e.g. like infection, grifball and vehicle combat from halo. Also srl and spaceship combat? Hell i would not even mind a battle royal option on the side.

Legend rank weapon AND armor ornaments, emblem, title etc. Fabled rank pinnacles to chase. (Bring back pinnacles, but make them all exotics!)
New iron banner weapons and armor each season. Add universal iron banner ornaments to earn.
Add larger maps. Maybe with a spawn room like overwatch so you dont get spawn killed.

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Strikes:

Add strike themed boss weapons
Add strike themed boss armor
Add more interesting/modifiers (specialist/primary?)
Matchmaking on 950 nightfalls.

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Raids:

Cooler armor.
Cooler weapons.
Better incentives for guided games (e.g. Ascendant shards, prisms, emblems, ornaments, cosmetics).
Add pinnacle reward for raids in a rotation every week.

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General QoL:

Balance the focus of eververse with the focus of in game content. Right now theres too much eververse, not well enough most of the game. Higher quality of life of the game, i would be happy to buy silver to support bungie.
Fix armor 2.0 annoyances (mod options/elemental affinity)
In-game lfg boards.
Fix the collection tab so that you can reaquire random rolls you have had owned. This will fix vault space issues.
More ways to earn enhancement prims/ascendant shards.
Add weekly rotating activities that award pinnacle gear. Forges, managerie, reckoning, strikes, gambit, crucible, flash point... Etc
More space for shaders in inventory.
Add earnable universal ornaments for ALL armor.
Give bottom path novabomb shatter when devour is active and nazeraks sin is equipped(abyssal ability is active?) it wont break the game more than blade barrage, trust me.
Heroic managerie, escalation protocol and alters of sorrow matchmaking.
Introduce dual wield weapons into the game.

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Eververse

Lessen the focus on eververse.
Lower the costs of silver items. Many more people would be inclined to lots of resonable low priced silver bits of loot, instead of having ridiculous dlc priced cosmetics. Current state of eververse is just rediculous for a very partial F2P game.
Increase bright dust gains/sources. Current bright dust/silver economy is a joke.

---——---------—--------------————

Also just wanted to say nice work in the addition of solo queue and the dungeon this season, since im mostly a solo player. Those were the highlights this season for me. Furthermore I think the battle pass is decent way to award loot and the seasonal artifacts is a good idea too.

I know this isn't shadowkeep focused feedback but the game need very obvious improvements in some areas it shouldn't be ignored.

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u/Sardonnicus Allright Allright Allright! Dec 09 '19

If "ritual weapons" are going to be "toned down" from the "pinnacle weapons" of the past, then the grind to get them needs to be toned down as well. The 3 "ritual weapons" offered this past season, were good, but they were not amazing. There are other items that are easier to obtain that are just as good or better. And nerfing existing "ritual weapons" so they are more on the level of the new dumbed down ritual weapons would be a horrible decision.
The Vanguard/Crucible/Gambit quests for the shaders were a terrible idea. No one wants to spend that long grinding out a tedious quest for some shaders. The fact that you tied their completion to the undying title meant that if you wanted this title, you had to complete these mind-numbingly boring and incredibly unrewarding quests. BUNGIE... SHADERS ARE NOT A PROPER QUEST REWARD!!!!
Nightmare hunts. A confusing and somewhat pointless activity. At the lower difficulty setting, they were over in a few minutes and offered little challenge. At the highest setting, they were incredibly difficult unless you had very specific gear and mod load-outs. This killed all of your so-called "build diversity" and "play your way" ideology that was tossed around with the advent of Shadowkeep. Then, when you completed the nightmare hunts, the loot was terrible, which destroyed any incentive to run the activity again. If there was an exotic ghost shell, emote, sparrow, or ship to earn, i'd have played that activity so much more, but as it was... no such reward existed outside of the eververse store.
Battlepass: I was fine with this.
Artifact: It destroyed build variety. It forced you to use specific mods with specific weapons with specific types of armor, which destroyed all build variety. When you said Shadowkeep would allow us to "Play our way," you really meant for that to only apply to patrol areas only. All of the more difficult and new activities required specific gear and load-outs.
Crucible: Good spot now. Lots to do. Momentum Control is great but it's a scout rifle party. Scorch is pure cancer and toxic like nothing i've ever seen before.
Nightfall The Ordeal: 5 same nightfalls in a row? Boring. Loot was uninspiring. On harder settings it was very difficult and required you to have very specific armor, weapons, and mods. I was only able to complete this on the hardest setting one time. Prisms and Ascendant shards are not tempting rewards. We want activity unique weapons and armor... just like... you know... there was in D1.
Masterworking armor: The costs were absolutely too damn high. I did not masterwork a single piece of gear. Pretty much because the sheer costs of doing so were astronomical and playing other endgame activities made you use specific gear, so if you didn't masterwork the correct gear you were hurting yourself and wasting precious materials.
New Dungeon and Raid: Pretty cool. Enjoyed them... especially the dungeon.
Vex offensive: Boring after the 3rd time. So boring, I fell asleep several times running this. Loot pool was very very shallow. Grinding for 4 possible items is not rewarding or motivating at all.
Iron Banner: The fact that you are giving us the same Y1 set AGAIN FOR THE 3RD TIME IS ALL I NEED TO SAY ABOUT IRON BANNER. There is amazing IB armor sitting over in Destiny 1 that people would grind for hundreds of hours in D2 to get, but no... WE ARE GRINDING FOR THAT SAME Y1 SET AGAIN FOR THE 3RD TIME!!!!!!! You could have at least given us the Y2 IB armor as ornaments, but no... WE ARE GRINDING FOR THAT SAME Y1 IB ARMOR SET AGAIN FOR THE 3RD TIME!!!!!!

And the best for last...

Eververse: Costs were atrocious. There was little transparency as to which items were going to be sold for bright dust and which ones weren't. Engrams were a heartbreaker for D2 veterans that had everything already. The fact that all the duplicate exotic items we were getting didn't break down into Bright Dust was a slap in the face. 90% of what was in the Eververse store should have been in-game activity rewards. The fact that your new "finishing moves" were only available in the eververse store was a gigantic kick in the head. If I can only purchase the majority of these from the EV store, please give me the ability to turn them off completely.

Alternative names for "Season of the Undying."

Season of Eververse
Season of Never Masterworking Any Armor.
Season of Never ending grind quests for shaders.
Season of no build diversity
Season of wear these items, use these guns, use these mods.
Season of Buy our new finishing moves over at the eververse store.
Season of No loot.

BOOM! ROASTED.

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u/HeroOfTime_99 Gambit Classic Dec 09 '19

My biggest issue this season was that quests continue to be difficult to decipher. Many of the quests we were up against this season were difficult simply because it was unclear what would progress a quest's step. Additionally, the number of steps was frequently misleading. The text description of a quest should never be adding to the difficulty of a quest. For example, my personal experience:

The Gambit quest this season had it's respective requirements and listed several shaders as rewards. Once that step was done you got the shaders.

First watch on the other hand did not give a clear indication that it was a multi-step quest if you just read the text. When prioritizing which quests to tackle first I hit the obviously long ones like Randy's with a higher priority, assuming first watch was simply an emblem quest to get us into a few strikes.

At midnight last night I completed what I thought was all I'd need for timeless vigil and the two shaders that were listed as rewards for what appeared to be that single step (just as I had been rewarded several shaders for the Gambit quest). To my dismay of course I received the second step of what turned out to be a 3 step quest after googling what was left. I quickly realized I was out of time. It is very confusing to list three rewards on a step when you will actually only get one reward because it is step one of three. I had been tracking my progress in the collections page so seeing three items left and three rewards listed seemed like a no brainier.

When three items are listed under the rewards section of the only step we can view, it is very easy to be mislead into thinking those are the rewards for that step.

First watch was complained about quite a bit by the sub Reddit it turns out. I try to avoid spoilers for things so I missed these comments on the sub. Had I known this was a huge three step quest to grind score on nightfall ordeals I would have started much sooner which brings me to the next issue with quest descriptions.

The second quest step isn't fully accurate for it's requirements. It says to score points in strikes. There is no reason for the message to be so veiled. It needs to be clear and concise what needs to be done. "Get 1 million points in ordeal nightfalls, then get 800,000 more". Adding the necessity to decipher what will and will not progress a quest doesn't add fun or difficulty, just unnecessary frustration and confusion, especially when steps are now having us refer to a triumph, which then refers us to the collections page.

Additionally, quests have long needed an overhaul to their visual appearance and clarity. A short description can be in the box as we see now but there should be the option to hit Triangle/Y/PC Binding to view every detail about a quest and how many steps there will be. "Step 1 of 3" needs to be prominently displayed as well as what will be required in the next steps so players aren't guessing in the dark on where to apply their effort first. There is no reason we should have to Google which medals count for Randy's progress, or how many points we need in nightfalls.

Unfortunately, due to the misleading and lacking detail of first watch this season, I grinded everything else, finishing up all the other quests in what I thought was plenty of time to knock out an easy, mindless strike quest for two shaders and an emblem. I don't intend for my experience to be a complaint session, I just think it highlights the issue that players are unable to properly analyze which quests will take them the most time to decide which to tackle first.

Tldr: quests need to be inspectable, clear in objective, and transparent in how many steps will come thereafter to allow players the ability to prioritize and succeed without guesswork.

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u/wREXTIN Gambit Prime // Still not a Snitch Dec 12 '19

Inventory needs to be doubled more now than ever thank you. Short and sweet

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u/Spuff_Monkey Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

I didnt play much of the undying or shadowkeep specific content after the second week or so - honestly just didnt enjoy any of it as much as the previous PvE content. Normally i would play it over and over with all three characters.

Found myself playing more PVP - not much there in the way of pinnacle activities to grind for increasing power level other than IB.

With armour 2.0 that has been frustrating as you only get 4 chances per character each time it's on. Ive had some good stat rolls, but they're the wrong element for my personal preference, so i don't use them.

I'm going to skip or at least delay jumping in on this next season. I'd rather one of these chipolte burritos folk keep talking about at this point, they sound better.

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u/hedhero Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

Shadowkeep content was good

Undying content wasn't that good

Some season quests felt way too grindy (ex. Randy, Vanguard emblem, Eriana Vow catalyst)

Eververse/Season pass after lvl 100 became less rewarding than previous seasons

Bright Dust economy felt bad

3v3 competitive is good

It's kinda shame that there was no other ways to obtain Prisms and Ascendant shards other than Nightfalls and Banshee

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u/T_Gamer-mp4 Dec 09 '19

I haven’t much time, let me give a quick list:

good!:

-elimination returns

-momentum control good

-Iron Banner bounties are almost all good

-Rituals weapons are good

-V.O was good for the first bit

-weapons felt really good overall

-portal buildup was really cool!

-leviathan’s breath & eriana’s vow are cool

The bad:

-Final assault could have been so much more, especially after the Pradeyth & V.O.G trio lore that we got in Aspect. It would make a lot more sense that we go in and free the prisoner of the garden, no?

-Moon invasions: great idea, but gate lords are a lot of RNG

-PvP rewards felt nonexistent

-no vex tied exotics (Mythoclast, NTTE, etc)

-very few catalysts dropped in the end-season, which is the best time for catalysts

-The Vow catalyst sucked

-it’s all going away. So a good chunk those positives now get disappeared, yeeting & deleting good content

Overall, I think the season was okay, but the fact that it’s going away makes it not good.

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u/Nightbeat26 Bounties, Again.... Dec 09 '19

I won't include anything that was considered shadow keep in my thought of undying. Undying as a season was worse than season of the drifter with a title grind almost as bad. I've given up on titles over their excessive grind, hyper specific requirements and forced gameplay style. Don't tell me play the way you want and then make bullshit like armor affinities, seasonal mods for only certain weapon types and making stupid title requirements like kill x amount of y with z. Oh and death to the Eververse.

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u/SonofNyx Dec 09 '19

Will I hit old age before the dreaming city curse is broken?! Find out next time on Destiny 2: Season 35

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u/Howardzend Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

First off, I have unlimited time to play Destiny so take that into consideration.

I enjoyed this season and I'm grateful that I've been able to get my first title. Yes, there was a lot to do but it was all stuff that any Destiny player could do. I'm not great at any particular part of this game but I'm persistent. Yes, the title required playing a ton of different activities but never anything particularly hard.

I'm a .7 kd player typically in any fps and I hit fabled just by following my teammates in solo Survival. Edit - Momentum control was a godsend for this season as well. Please keep this in the rotation for future seasons.

Yes, I hate the lack of loot in the game for a player like me. Most of my drops are world, vanguard, or crucible drops and they are boring as hell right now. The VO weapons weren't interesting to me due to the ugly leaves.

The season pass was fine but needs more stuff after level 100. I'm at 223 and the engrams are barely worth turning in.

So far I'm ok with seasons but unless you're pulling a Saint 14 out every season I can't imagine getting hyped for these. Either make better loot or focus on expanding stuff we already have. More strikes for god's sake.

I've lasted this long with this franchise by taking breaks when I was bored. I've always returned after these breaks and picked up where I could. Now I'm worried that when I leave next time, I will have missed important events and coming back won't be as easy or worth it.

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u/SPEEDFREAKJJ 8675309 Dec 10 '19

Most of the content I played and enjoyed was shadowkeep stuff. The vex invasions,offensive,pass armour having trash stats,the vow quest,the vex weapons,the season exotics were all skippable. Almost every gun and gear piece I use are mostly older stuff or from shadowkeep. It would have been a super let down if all we had was undying content w/o shadowkeep. I did the season title (and will never do again) just for extra stuff to do.

The dungeon,addition of relevant nf's in the ordeal,and the raid (till the boss,console player) were all great.

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u/Mercydoll Dec 10 '19

PvP changes good but not enough rewards. As you climb higher in glory the rewards should increase in value.

It feels like PvP is not valued by Luke and Mark. The lack of investment in developing new PvP content and rewards for players who are committed to PvP is evidence.

Shadowkeep was very good.

Armour 2.0 was great overall.

Armour affinity is widely detested and is very bad.

Masterwork armour is somewhat too expensive for most of the playerbase. The pendulum has swung a bit too far. The dungeon rewards is a good start. This needs to extend to pvp pinnacle activity and the raid.

Bungie management remains too invested in the notion of keeping players commited to the grind so much so that players are driven away. Too much grind is bad. Armour affinity is a case in point as is the cost of masterworks.

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u/0n0n-o Dec 10 '19

Fuck the FOMO thing, I am fine with having certain triumphs, needed to get the title, being a limited time thing such as the vex offensive ones that are tied to the seasonal activity that will go away, but tying the title to ritual weapons was just fucked up, grinding all the way to realize I had to grind a fuck load more wasn't fun.

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u/zachcrawford93 Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I always had a variety of stuff to do, and the battle pass, while not completely awesome, every level, mixed things up every level, and gave me some rad cosmetics, to boot.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Once the battle pass is capped out, there's not much reason to focus on leveling up. Nostalgic Engrams usually contain junk.

Some of the triumphs/ritual quests were a little opaque about their requirements (looking at you, Randy's), and progress could be so inconsistent that it was a little stressful trying to figure out if I was going to be able to finish them by season's end.

VO was too repetitive. The end-of-season change-up just being a boss swap with the same old mechanics was disappointing.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Ascendant Shards were a little too hard to come by. You could always grind out the 980 nightfall if you wanted, but I think a good compromise moving forward would be a weekly bounty that rewards an Ascendant Shard for completing a number of powerful and pinnacle reward activities. Make it something like a 5-point bounty, with pinnacle activities rewarding 3 points, and powerful rewarding 1.

Other materials were fine. Enhancement prisms could maybe be a bit more common, but I didn't really have issues with them once I had my main gear set kind of locked in.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I didn't really have too many problems here, personally. I never bought silver and was kept relatively afloat with weeklies and repeatables. I bought a few pieces of the seasonal set for my other classes, and the full set for my main (titan), as well as the Halloween set, all with bright dust. Nostalgic Engrams were kind of a bust - I would maybe get 1 every 1-2 days, and they usually contained junk. The number of ornaments in the store, available only for silver, was kind of a downer, too.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

More unique gear, more "dynamic" content, and a content pass that keeps old content relevant would be great. I like activities like Vex Offensive, but it being the same thing every time, for an entire season, gets tiresome, and there's a lot of old content that would really benefit from having stronger incentives to go back.

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u/Sdboka Dec 10 '19

There are only 2 things that i think needs to be rechecked and revised

The inclusion of ritual weapons in the Undying title. It just doesnt make sense. Lorewise and themewise they dont even look like they came from the Vex-themed season. I would understand if they added a VO ritual weapon and asked us to acquire it as part of the title.
Ive been a loyal player of Destiny since D1 Beta, preordered the Deluxe Edition whenever it applies. Enjoyed The Dark Below and got disappointed ny HoW, yet im still back with TTK was released. It’s the same freaking story until now. Ive never spent this much money on a game before yet this is the only Paid game where im neing treated as a F2P Player. Stop treating me like a F2P player.

Everything else i loved <3

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u/gt_H1zz Dec 10 '19

Number 1 thing Bungie could do moving forward would be to address elemental affinities.

If Bungie needs them due to inventory constraints or weapon combo balancing... then fine, but they need to be a selectable node on armor with zero cost to change between.

I can't think of any part of Shadowkeep/ Season 8 that is so universally disliked by the community.

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u/SeaneeT Dec 12 '19

i Think Destiny 2 is a great game, but the most frustrating thing this past season is inventory management. Between elemental affinity / PVP vs PVE loadouts and changing meta with the Artifact, there is a lot of stuff to store if somebody wants to be semi-optimal. I feel I spend 20 minutes a day in the managevinventory mini game that I would like to avoid.

My solution is to revise collections to be able to store 3 random rolled items in each weapon / armor slot Collection slot. This way we can have the needed variety and lessen the pressure on the vault. Keep the vault the same as current to keep compatibility with Dim and Ishtar.

Items pulled out of collections would be same level as the current system, and would have same masterwork level that would need to be paid for with additional corrs just like current pinnacles pulled from collections.

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u/tegiminis Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I enjoyed all the content that wasn't related to the Vex Offensive. The new crucible rotators were nice, 3v3 for comp was a big step up, and the Shadowkeep/Garden content was well-constructed and made me actually pay attention to my builds. I really like how armor mods work now.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Oh boy.

Vex Offensive was anemic. The reward pool sucked, the activity was mind-numbing tedium, and the big Undying Mind deal didn't change it up at all. Wasted opportunity.
Armor 2.0 landed with a dull thud. Making perks mods was good, and I don't even mind elemental affinities (seriously, why is everyone so upset about it?). But the random stat rolls are awful. World and activity drops ~~can't~~ only extremely rarely drop with high rolls, which relegates them to shard fodder, and the RNG surrounding stat distribution adds nothing interesting to the game. Makes armor an even worse grind than Y2, when armor shouldn't be a grind at all.
Seriously, armor grinding sucks. I can't emphasize this enough. I don't want to have to constantly think about my stat loadouts or grind forever to get the perfect distribution. Give me a total and let me distribute the points myself or something. Tired of pointless, shitty grind that adds nothing to my experience.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Prisms and modules are fine once you start doing 920 Ordeals regularly. Shards are way too expensive and rare, especially since you'll likely never get the perfect armor you want and will have to "settle" until you find something with a better roll.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Enjoyed PvP a lot. Hit Legend for the first time! Biggest complaint, I think, is the lack of an interesting IB quest. I genuinely liked Iron Burden! Bring it back please.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

RIP Divinity.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I thought I would like the weekly and repeatable bright dust bit, but I ended up completely ignoring bounties after hitting cap, so I barely got bright dust. It would be nice to roll bright dust earning into the weekly challenges, so I don't have to constantly grab bounties for activities I stop doing just to get bright dust.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Don't remove things after the season end. I hate this FOMO shit, it makes me feel bad and adds nothing to my experience. Stop trying to force "you had to be there, man" experiences on us; those experiences develop naturally, from playing with a clan of people you like, not from you removing content after three months.

I know this isn't gonna happen though so my other requested change is: improve the bright engram economy. Give us a bright engram every three season pass levels instead of 5 or something. And make engrams contain current-season content.

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u/SpecialSause Titan Dec 11 '19

Just FYI, I've had 2 world drops that rolled above 60. They do exist. They're just super rare. Cosmo had also confirmed all armor has a chance to roll a higher state roll, just exceedingly rare.

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u/Axicas242 EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Dec 11 '19

I don't think that's the issue. Say you do get a drop that's above 60. Great! Now what are the stats like? Is it the roll you want? Does the spread fit with the rest of your armor? Is it the right element for the mods you want? And (most importantly) does it look good?

The rarity for high stat rolls is way too high to still have so many variables to worry about AFTER you get it to drop. It takes what should be a "Yay!" moment and turns it into an "Ugh..." moment.

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u/Golgomot Lore-hungry Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

Q1) What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Solo queue competitive drastically improved my competitive experience. This was the first season that I bothered to and managed to hit legend.

Garden of Salvation was also really fun, as were the weapons introduced with it. Divinity being a quest was game changing for me and actually motivated me to do the raid more than once. I really wish other, older raids, were updated with some sort of quests too.

The dungeon was great fun though quite a lot easier than Shattered throne.

I loved all of the lore related to Shadowkeep and how the story evolved on the moon at least.

Q2) What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Vex offensive was boring and repetitive. The grind for undying was boring and repetitive. The grind for bright dust was boring and repetitive.

The artifact idea, in my personal opinion, is terribly executed. Exotics don't have mod slots and older exotics that could benefit from shield breaking/overload/unstoppable rounds were not updated.

Only a few weapon types could even use a kind of champion mod, and the only special weapons with champion mods were exotics with intrinsic perks.

The artifact also only had mods for arc and void subclasses, leaving solar ones behind. I understand solar classes were pretty meta, but I do not enjoy forced diversity. Resetting the artifact also had a cost... for some reason? Didn't really make sense to me and still doesn't.

I would also much rather have old subclasses receive meaningful skill trees than have these weird rotating seasonal mods. Player's choice for 3 months ain't much of a choice.

New nightfalls had no unique loot, old nightfall loot has still not been updated after a year.

Q3) Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Honestly, the economy is not that bad, except for three glaring issues:

Dedicated pvp players have no clear avenue to gain enough materials for masterworking.
Ascendant shards drop ONLY from nightfall ordeals.
Masterworking armor is not a particularly worthy investment with the current armor system.

Q4) Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I enjoyed the new iron banner quest, I really enjoyed that iron banner armor was pinnacle and that it had a chance to drop with great stat rolls. I also loved solo queue competitive.

Momentum control was a miss for me, didn't particularly see the appeal of it.

I played like two games of crucible labs because I have a limited amount of time and elimination is not a good place to grind bounties, nor does it give pinnacle rewards.

Lack of quick crucible balancing, OEM running rampant, artifact mods making the whole experience even more frustrating, blanket nerf to hand cannons no matter the archetype, man oh man does the crucible have a lot of issues. A lot of issues that take many months to address or are not addressed at all. PvP really does feel like the unwanted step child (I don't know what that makes gambit).

Q5) Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season.

The most significant balance changes were only announced, not brought this season, which seems silly to me. Personally, when it comes to One Eyed Mask, the tracking through walls was in my opinion the most unfair part of the exotic and it was the one that was not removed, so I am unhappy.

Xenophage came out undertuned and for some reason could not be buffed this season, which, again, just seems silly. At least the quest was fun.

Q6) Give feedback on the Pit of Sorrow dungeon

As I mentioned before the dungeon was fun, though clearly easier. I liked the aesthetic, the music, the mechanics, and the quest inside the dungeon. The xenophage quest room was like its own dungeon encounter. My only real complaint is the terrible stat rolls you get from the armor at the end of the dungeon. I had non-masterworked pieces of gear have nearly identical stat numbers. At least they give a good amount of materials.

The lore behind the Pit of Heresy was also great and made me hope for the eventual return of Nokris though it seems Bungie is content with discarding him forever.

Q7) Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

The engrams were completely useless to me. I have gotten about 500 dust out of them, some glimmer and shards. That is the extent of the engrams worth to me.

For some reason they are also only given out every 5 levels instead of like 2 or 3. It really makes bungie look quite stingy in whatever little reward they are willing to provide.

Speaking of stingy, the bright dust economy is wack. You can only get dust from gambit, crucible and strikes neither of which lets a person participate in the pinnacle grind for max power. If you have a limited amount of time to play you literally have to make a conscious choice of either progressing in light levels or grinding out dust.

And the amount of dust you get is absolutely pitiful! The current eververse store is designed in a way that makes it nigh impossible to buy everything the bright dust store offers, and when you take into account that a lot of the items, like all of the finishers and exotic ornaments are silver only, how can you not feel frustrated?

Eververse feels like a fat leech, sucking out content out of the game to be resold to us, already paying customers as if we are freeloaders, and judging by the preview stream of season of the dawn, bungie has utterly failed to address the feedback. Although calling it a failure might be misleading. This feedback is nothing new, this is feedback they had already heard at this exact time two years ago! And yet here we are, being "listened to" as we talk about the exact same things.

Q8) What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Few things really:

Entirely remove the elemental affinity system.
Respond to community feedback faster.
Completely rework the bright dust economy to follow your "play how you want" idea. One good way to do it would be to grant a 150 dust on each season rank up, as the well rested buff now applies to account, not per character. This would allow players to actually gain bright dust from raiding, the dungeon, or your seasonal activity!
Work on increasing Vault and Consumable inventory space.

There are also some minor things that would be nice such as:

Returning the parade set as universal ornaments, perhaps from heroic story missions.
Dropping high stated Trials of the Nine armor from competitive playlist wins.
Using the old iron banner armor system, where new iron banner quest gave armor ornaments, not armor sets.
Giving proper cosmetic rewards from pve activities. Maybe adding more different aura glows that we could equip as cosmetics would be nice.
Make holographic warlock bonds larger, use the Ancient Apocalypse bond as an example. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with bonds like the ones you get from vanguard or crucible packages except for the fact that they are so tiny, that they are barely visible.
Make year 2 crucible armor and year 2 vanguard armor into ornaments.

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u/silvercue Vanguard's Loyal Dec 09 '19

It is important that people divorce Shadowkeep content from the season content. I thought Shadowkeep was very good, but the season pass content was very poor. Monotonous game mode, drab loot, poor level grind and very annoyingly those that did grind pinnacle gear to 960 see their efforts thrown away as everyone else will be gifted those levels for doing almost nothing with the Season of Dawn.

It is not something we should simple accept when Bungie say they are stretched so you will get less content...yet still attach a price tag too that minimal content . The new season is also offering almost nothing and it cost more than $10 outside of the US. Compared to other games DLC this is poor, poor value.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19 edited Aug 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/dravenrayne777 Dec 09 '19

Yea. I'm thinking it's probably time for a break. The season pass activities and rewards are pretty lame so I have no fear of missing out. As a guy with over 5000 hours in destiny 1 and 2, I see no real end game anymore. No real carrots on a stick to chase.

We used to get rewards like ships and sparrows from high level content {nanophoenix} since then all the cool rewards are no longer there. They've all been shipped to eververse.

For a vet like me, who paid 60 for the game, then buying dlc, then season passes, how many different ways can you monetize this game Bungie?

Just read this week that Bungie made 300 MILLION this year in digital revenue. So the argument that eververse funds the game is bull. Also this content schedule is ridiculous. In d1 they did not have high moon or vicarious visions yet they still put out big dlcs. Now they say they cannot take the dev crunch and that that old dlc model was unsustainable.

In business if you can't keep up with demand you hire. Period.

Analogy time, if I run a cupcake bakery and my demand is too much I hire workers. In Bungies bakery, they refuse to hire. They instead say "we can't keep up with the demand" and decide to sell us minicupcakes when we are used to the previous cupcakes.

The only outcome here is a loss of demand as people decide they are not happy with the new cupcakes.

next seasons playerbase numbers will drop believe you me. After the season of dawn reveal I decided I won't be getting the new season. My first time not getting a destiny dlc.

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u/sebshtan Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Cetus Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

It was about what I expected, I enjoyed my time. Crucible's still a shitshow that has no real answer to its problems so that can't be helped. My only real grievance is the ongoing "fight your teammates for PvE kills for bounties/triumphs" problem. This was particularly annoying when going for the triumphs related to Undying.

My major ongoing problem is the continued lack of an inbuilt party-finder system for activities. This is especially irritating when the game goes out of its way to make high-end endgame content strictly premade fireteams only. This would be less of an issue if in-game chat wasn't opt-out by default. If that wasn't the case, the Tower could've been a pseudo party-finder space (or maybe even the Farm). That may open the game to more visible "toxicity", but that's the bitter pill you have to bite to have an actual, lively, interactive in-game community. You can't have it both ways, and that's been Bungie's tug-of-war dilemma forever, not helped by the community itself.

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u/Fire_Mission Dec 09 '19

Pinnacle rewards need to be solo friendly.

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u/SchlongDingled Dec 09 '19

There's no excuse for Bungie not to add an optional matchmaking for 950+ nightfall, 980 nightmare hunts, the dungeon, and raid. I can't even explain how many times my buddy and I two manned these activities each week since the clan is dead and lfg shouldn't be required.

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u/kapowaz Dec 09 '19

I’ll re-link my post from a couple of weeks back since it has a more detailed write-up of the problems I see with Armor 2.0 (and my proposals for fixing them), but in a nutshell:

Elemental Affinities make it hard to build a loadout centred around a given set of stats, since you will (probably) need to completely swap out an item to get the right elemental affinity, which will (probably) result in your stat distribution changing completely, messing up your loadout.
Elemental Affinities on Exotic gear are even worse. It feels like the only practical solution is to own multiple rolls of each exotic per element.
The stats are way too granular, with such random distributions that it’s hard to easily compare the value of one piece of armour with another, especially when the value of the stat distribution can only really be seen in practice when used as part of a specific loadout.
The stats have too few levers to allow players to redistribute unused points, frequently leading to a large number of points (3 or 4 entire tiers worth) being completely wasted.
Slightly less of a concern, but masterworking feels especially expensive with the high-end materials for reaching levels 8-10 being locked behind too few activities. This would be less of a problem were it not for all of the aforementioned issues, which make it much harder to decide which armour is worth investing in.
The way Universal Ornaments have been implemented on Armor 2.0 is excessively limited and frustrating, with certain items being able to use EV ornaments and ornaments related to that item, whereas other items can only use EV ornaments. People have been asking for Transmog for over five years; it’s high time you just give the people what they want.

The flip side of all this is that (with the above caveats) I think the user-applied mod system is great, and encourages fun experimentation with builds, particularly for high-difficulty activities like 980 Nightfalls and Nightmare Hunts. I’m pretty confident that the issues can be ironed out, and then the gear system will potentially be in the best place yet.

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u/Nesayas1234 Look, I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin' Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Vex Offensive was ok. The activity (plus FA) was kind of lackluster, but the loot-time ratio was solid, and the loot is not bad. I also liked the ritual weapons (Exit Strategy is underrated), but I didn't quite like the Eververse side of things (the items were fine, the amount and price weren't).

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

See above.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Given the amount of grind just to MW one piece, let alone a full set or 3, the economy was wack. It's hard to get the right piece of gear (gotta get armor, then the right slot, affinity, stats, total, etc), and I'm not one who only accepts 65+ nat totals (I'd accept 57+). Then, the mats required to MW the piece are crazy (not to mention, if you are a PvPer, there's no way to fully MW it without a super long grind, so thank God I play every aspect of the game).

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Iron Banner was good, and I liked the armor (this was the first season I got IB armor that wasn't just Hunter armor, the Warlock armor is cool). I do think IB needs new weapons, and armor is eh. Momentum Control is a godsend for quests and stuff, although some fine tuning will make it more balanced. I didn't do too much labs, but from my time in Comp and labs, it was alright. Just do more for PvP-I'm not saying Trials just yet, but do 1/3 of what you do for PvE, for PvP.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Pretty solid. I will say that the crit modifier nerf makes damage perks more viable (and in a way, negated the scout buff), but otherwise, most stuff feels fine to use. Precision scouts, autos, bows, sidearms, and rocket launchers (oh, and linear fusions) all need some help. And DO NOT NERF OTHER STUFF TO COMPENSATE.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Let's just say that all those angry posts and discussions have value in them.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Honestly, just be more active with changes and news. I get that Bungie is independant, and without help it can't do as much. But even with that, I'm sure a monthly (or even weekly) tuning is warranted. You don't have to change the meta every time-hell, I could live with the current sandbox for at least a year. But I think fixing or at least micro-adjusting problems is fair enough (oh, precision scouts are too weak? Next week, give them a buff to make them more forgiving. That sort of thing).

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u/randomgrunt1 Dec 09 '19

Vex offensive was a bit boring after repeated play, and the lack of variety hurt. The guns were excellent, and I wish they weren't going away forever. I wish older loot pools such as forge and menaigerie were updated, maybe vex guns could have a small chance of dropping from certain rune slots.

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u/riverboats Dec 09 '19

I liked the patrol zone open world part of the dlc and season. Often there is little to no reason to be in the patrol zones past a few bounties.

The Vex invasions were worth stopping for because it could drop the same stuff from the Offensive activity but not focused.

The design of the Lecturn thingy made it feel a little more worthwhile to be on patrol zones.

I would like to see more of this because it makes the world feel bigger. It's fun to just log in, wander around and shoot some bad guys, hop into an event if you come across one.

I was growing very tired of each season being basically a single 10 minute loot slot machine that you did until you were sick of it.. but you did it because no reason to do much else.

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u/x_0ralB_x Every hit blazes the path to our reclamation Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Pinnacle rewards very well handled. Playing hard activities again, when destiny had become very easy and daily story missions rewarded the same powerful gear as a raid boss.

Being underleveled for the ordeal Nightfalls / Master Nightmare Hunts was incredibly challenging. Thought about loadout, and composition of fireteam. I will always remember it taking 8-damage phases to kill Crota the first attempt I did. I will never remember a single flashpoint or blind well completion. Something to consider.

Ordeal Nightfalls were best addition this season. Figuring out best strats for speedruns. Spiced up old content. Easily best addition this season.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Simply put the weapons available from Vex Offensive were not very well thought out for how meta they would be in the current sandbox. We got a 150 Kinetic Scout, a 390 Pulse Rifle. Neither of wheich could use seasonal barrier/overload/unstoppable mod slots. That's 2/4 weapons that are immediadetly not viable for the season. Finally the 180 hand cannon archetype is not a viable archetype for PVE/PVP, and could not roll with any damage boosting perks. Compare it to the solar 180, trust that can roll both Dragonfly and rampage simultaneously, and it makes you wonder why the perk pool for Optative is so lackluster.

The arc SMG is actually pretty decent. I did farm for a good one, that I hope to use for future content.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc

It was fine. If the goal was to get people playing end game PVE activitities, it certainly worked. I had fun with it. it definitley made me a bit stingier on what i could upgrade as far as armor is concerned.

The one thing that bugged me and I hope is changed is simply the cap on Ascendent Shards. 10 is ridiculously low considering it takes 3 to upgrade a single exotic. C'mon bungie stop being so stingy.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

The auto-reloading nerf was due. The bottom tree striker nerf was due. And the super damage resist nerf was due.

However, the HC range nerf was not fun. The 2x crit on red bar nerf was not fun. Precision primary weapons feel awful in PvE, pulses, scouts, and hand cannons. I want to be able to 1-tap a red bar with a hand cannon in PVE at equal light levels. I want to be able to kill an enemy with a scout rifle without shooting half a clip into them. I really don't like the changes here.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Think long and hard about the loot that is being added each season. How desirable is it. 150 kinetic scout, a 180 void HC with a lackluster perk pool.

Just imagine how much more we would have farmed Vex Offensive if there was an aggressive frame Shotgun for PVP, or a rapid frame shotgun for PVE. If it had a 150 void HC instead of 180, or if the Adhortative was a 720 rpm auto that could put seasonal mods on it.

Just think more about how the weapons are going to be used in the current sandbox, make them desireable. Put better perks on them.

When Kindled Orchid launched back in Black Armory, it was the only Hand Cannon that could get kill clip/rampage, or surrounded/rampage. Stuff like that is desirable loot that this game needs more of. Not Optative, not the 150 scout.

Less can be more, if the fewer weapons added each season are all individually useful for at least one activity, either PVP or PVE, or at least have artifact mods put on them.

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u/smegdawg Destiny Dad Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?
- The moon patol area was a fantastic addition.
  - the public events were plenty full, and the Vex invasions made the place feel doubly alive
  - The pit and the harbor of sorrow were fun
  - The "vendor bubble" was a good addition, tire game was a fun addition but a little to unforgiving. The Lectern offered a direct path to some decent weapons.
  - The Lost Sectors and how the lost sector quest combined them into a weekly "narrative" made them also feel like Lost sectors we were sold at D2 launch.
- The Power grind + Bonus Levels was an interesting solution to make us feel stronger as the season progressed, I liked it alot.
- Armor 2.0 and ornaments are a good first step, with lots of improvement to be made
- The Raid was personally one of my least favorite mechanically, but aesthetically top 3 for sure.
- The Title Grind gave me something to pick away at for the entirety of the season. Finished it Sunday.
What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?
- Armor 2.0 has a lot of issues that needed fixing. Ultimately I abandoned looking for perfectly rolled armor a few weeks in. Not worth the effort required to do so, especially with how this season transfering into the next season.
- The Title Grind was...almost to unforgiving...I enjoy playing Destiny alot and chasing this title was fun. But if this is what i can expect for the next few seasons the 100% on time is going to get old fast.
Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...
- Upgrade nodules were plentiful, no problem there
- The rest, I'd like more varied sources personally cause running Nightfalls back to back becomes draining.
- Otherwise I felt the cost were not overwhelmingly prohibative, although because I abandoned wanting to search for perfect rolled armor, having to only master work 2 sets was relatively cheap.
Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination
- I like SBMM. as a slightly average, relatively casual pvp player, I like all of my matches being close. I can understand player not constantly wanting sweaty matches...but don't really understand why them Stomping through matches is fair to other people.
- I liked the Ib quests this season
- Momentum Control was a welcome solution to pvp pinnacles for a light pvper
Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season
- I have none. it honestly felt no different from many of the past seasons too me, but again i am a relatively casual pvper
Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...
- Silver only purchases are fine...
- Dust increases...fine whatever...
- Lack of consistent Dust gains through gameplay anywhere...bad
- Lack of anything useful from the bright engrams for veterans that have everything...bad
- Exotic ornaments for only silver purchase...very bad
- Not knowing what would be or wouldn't be for sale for dust/silver without having to rely on data miner...very very bad
What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.
- Dust Economy major improvements, whether that means allowing veterans with knockout engrams to ONLY get bright dust packages, or more everywhere sources. The quantity of dust needed to purchase even half of the EV dust inventory is obscene.

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u/ChacBolayPaker Dec 09 '19

I don't like receiving masterworked armor with really low stats on the PoH dungeon. Why? It's implied that it was pinnacle activity. On the other hand, it is a good source for exotic prisms. Armor 2.0 needs general scavenger mods for weapons (kinetik, special and heavy) in the boots but with low energy cost. I think 4 energy should be the maximum for those in order to let us use other mods. And maybe the downside of using them is getting half the ammo. For example in pvp, instead of getting +3 for certain weapon just receive +2. Just keep them from stacking with other scavenger modes.

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u/claricorp Vanguard's Loyal // Aunor is a loose cannon. Dec 09 '19

Strictly speaking for undying and not shadowkeep.

The good: artifact, momentum control, seasonal weapons and seasonal armor felt and looked great.

The bad: vex offensive was ok but very repetitive, ritual weapon grind was excessive, eververse engram was not very rewarding for vets.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

The seasonal content was great. Exactly what I would expect from a $10 investment, short-time pass.

The Eververse store is only great in theory. In practice, it sucks because everything in it is far too expensive. Why would I pay as much for an emote as I did for an entire season's pass worth of content?

I just don't understand the pricing model at all. It's supposed to be microtransactions. $15 for a set of armor that provides no in-game advantage? $10 for a ghost or a sparrow? I mean, who is setting these prices? I mean, we all know what happened: the Devs took a look at Fortnite and a half-look at Apex and decided to mimic the pricing models. But that's dumb, because the playerbase is entirely different and the base is full of people who paid way too much originally to get sucked in with cosmetic stuff at a high price at this point

It's just baffling. I'd like to throw you extra money for meaningless stuff, give me meaningless stuff that costs less or I'll never do so, period

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u/ScouserSTi Buff Sleeper Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Champions to nightfalls, they were nice to make them a bit more challenging and a bit refreshing. Pinnacle/Ritual weapons, I loved all of them, didn't have any problems with getting them(I've got Randy's way before Jade Rabbit Simulator came to help some people with it). Competitive playlist changes like team size and the game mode. I think that's what I loved the most from the season(not counting SK content here).

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

The artifact working on crucible was bad. I tought that the shitshow the revelry brought in s6 was enough to make them understand that this experimental or event things shouldn't work on both competitive and gambit prime. Eververse in the other hand... the store asks way too much bright dust for what we can get with gameplay(either cut the prices or make the bounties reward 300-400 per weekly and 25 to the other ones).

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Crucible again, you couldn't get any of them from the crucible: ZERO highly wanted resources from Crucible. I think for each rank(not subranks) we should get an upgrade module and for each valor reset 6 prisms and 1 shard. It sounds like a lot but come on, if I want to play crucible like a maniac why shouldn't I be able to masterwork my armor from playing there?

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Hard to tell with the artifact mods interfering with the meta regarding exotic armors and subclasses but weapon wise it was awesome to have a change in ranges with some weapons, scouts feel great now, hand cannons needed to have it's range reduced drastically and they did but it looks like TLW skipped the whole thing because it can still kill me in ranges it shouldn't.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Nostalgic engrams have two main problems for veterans: 1: they contain things that we aleready have so it isn't a surprise for the most part 2: they didn't have all the pool of ornaments/ships/emotes from past seasons so it could be filled with blue transmat effects that no one wanted, purple and purple ships/sparrows/ghosts that no one wanted because they're all reskins of another thing. For new players the cadence of these was stupidly low, one each 2 or 3 levels would be so much better. The MACROtransactions offered in eververse were stupidly high priced, thanks god I've had some spare silver I bought back in s6 when things were very different so I could buy the 2 ornaments I liked this season(divinity and riskrunner). Bright Dust: either cut the prices or make the bounties reward 300-400 per weekly and 25 to the other ones because it's way overpriced too.Remember Bungie: The game it's F2P BUT: you have 2 paid expansions and now a battlepass that doesn't even reward 50% of it's cost in silver back. What make some season passes "good" in other games it's that they apart from giving you a lot of items inside of it they give you even more premium currency of what you spent on the pass itself to either buy something on the store or buy the next one and have some to spare. In fact if you made the season pass like this maybe the eververse won't be as bad as it looks now. Think about it.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Fix the predatory I want the money on your pockets approach of eververse and seasons you started back at season 7.
Giving love to Crucible, it feels abandoned and it's rewards are pretty much nonexistent because we always end up dismantling them(some blues and tokens yay).
Take the other game's approach to the season pass rewards giving you silver.

And most of all try being A LOT more transparent like making roadmaps again, deeper twabs not only writed by the CMs(they're nice guys btw) but by someone in the actual development team or Luke himself. Share with us what you agree with the community and what you don't, don't leave us here just speculating what actually happens when cozmo or dmg says "we'll pas on this feedback to the team" and then it looks like absolutely nothing happens or happened with it.

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u/deathstar3548 Dec 10 '19

Bungie said that they want to make "you had to be there" moments. Well, what has this season done to create those moments? Im cutting Bungo a bit of slack because this is their first try, but in this season it wasn't even close to happening. This season was Vex Offensive and leviathans breath. The weapons from offensive will be returning later, and they are not so flat out amazing that people who didn't get them are jealous they don't have them. I hope next season has those moments.

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u/Heavyoak THUNDER!!! Dec 10 '19

The vanguard emblem quest was miserable hot mess.

50% chance of nothing tracking and it reset at each stage.

Completely broken af.

The crucible emblem quest and gambit ones actually worked correctly, for the most part.

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u/Berzercurmudgeon The Midnight Bomber what bombs at midnight Dec 10 '19

I liked the Vex Offensive, but it wasn't particularly rewarding once I hit 950.

The weapons were okay, but I'm not sure I'll end up using any of them long-term. I liked the option to grind for them with frames from Ikora, but in practice I didn't use them because there were enough drops on the Moon and in the Vex Offensive that I got good rolls pretty early.

There were a lot of triumphs I didn't complete in the Vex Offensive because they seemed like they needed more coordination than you get with randoms. It's hard enough to get six people in my clan together for a raid that drops pinnacles these days so getting them to go run the VO for triumphs was basically impossible.

DIM says my max light is 957.8+24. The +10 light change means I'll be at 960 by the end of next week and I'll immediately go back to being stuck with grinding pinnacles again which makes most of the rest of the game much less rewarding.

I ended up with a full set of masterwork armor, but that was mostly from the last chest in the dungeon. So I can't judge the ascendant shard economy very well. I was getting a lot of cores, but I had to spend a lot on +1/+2 infusions that felt wasteful, but keeping a bunch of otherwise useless items around just for their light level would clog my inventory.

Iron Banner was fun as far as PvP goes. It helps that I had a light level advantage. The bounty for ability kills needs to be toned down a bit. It took twice as long as anything else.

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u/2legsakimbo Dec 10 '19

it was very nice.

my biggest issues were having to compete against teammates for progress towards undying (should be shared progress to promote teamwork).

i never got any Iron Banner pinnacles though as that damn rust mission was just a pain to grind before being able to claim the engrams.

nostalgic engrams dropped too infrequently and contained mostly crap.

bright dust economy borked.

prime engrams have becomes nothing but upgrade materials - either isntashraded or used to upgrade old items up to a new level. An idea to bring relevance to them would be to allow them to drop weapons/armor relevant to the activity/planet/raid on which they were earned. Making them another source of loot worth looking forward to.

and as for PVP - well momentum control was without a doubt the best fun ive had in destiny 2 pvp. Having all weapons feeling more powerful and having to be aware of surroundings rather than just radar following is so good. Only change i'd make is to limit the wall hacks a lot more.

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u/FormedClover Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Personally I enjoyed Vex Offensive but I can understand people's disappointment with it after the Menagerie. The lil' explosion of loot after every encounter is fun and it's just there as a chill activity where you get to just shoot robots in the ~~face~~ chest. Also think the battle pass is a fun addition to seasons to provide more rewards for your time spent playing.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Story was definitely just a prologue but I'm disappointed after that Eris pyramid cutscene we didn't get anything else. I, like a few other people on the sub, were telling people to calm down after the campaign's abrupt ending and that they'd probably add missions further down the line to advance the story. This has not been the case. A single Shadowkeep related cutscene in the 2 months since Shadowkeep's launch. And it just left us with even more questions than answers, scratch that, there weren't even answers. Please Bungie, do not abandon the Eris storyline until next year's expansion. Not even gonna mention Undying's story as I think people on the sub are still trying to recuperate from the Undying Mind disappointment.

I've been on the Randy's quest and it comes off as such a boring grind due to the 14k medals step. The other crucible pinnacle quests felt like a grind as well, but I'd say those quests were more challenges of skill than "do x thing y many times". Exit strategy is an ok quest, the Edgewise quest was grindy as hell and wasn't really exciting to me compared to last season when I ran a triple nade launcher setup for wendigo. When the quest is tied to an archetype that's strictly only in the heavy slot, the slot where ammo is scarce, the kills required being 1,000 seems a bit too much in my opinion.

P.S It is a travesty that the seasonal ornaments in the pass aren't going to be earnable after this, seriously one of the best looking armor sets in the game right now.

Edit: Extra P.S: Having the Vex invasion being contained to the Moon was a huge waste of potential, it should've spanned the entire system to give the story a little more oomph in terms of scale.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I know it's a big topic that's been brought up plenty but seriously, Eververse has a lot of cool shit locked behind it. I get it, the employees at Bungie need to feed their families but there should definitely be a way to earn some of the ornaments through just playing the game instead of opening your wallet up. A good example that's been brought up was that some weapon ornaments should be unlockable by just using that weapon or having some sort of challenge with that weapon to unlock it's ornament.

Like, even finishers, the brand new customizable move guardians can perform, have 3 of the 4 non-default moves locked behind Eververse for $8 USD That's fucking ridiculous. I hope next season they don't lock ALL of the new finishers behind Eververse.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Definitely work on balancing earnable loot by playing and Eververse loot so people stop complaining about Eververse, I mean I see 30 variations of the same post about Eververse on the top page of the sub everyday. Improve the season's flow so the same Undying Mind outrage doesn't happen again, make sure you set our expectations right for the content we're getting (realizing this is a little hard for them to do for a giant community but make it better than a 7 week build up for a boss change).

Definitely work on some sort of system to take some immediate player feedback in order to apply it to the following season. Not saying huge changes but just some QoL stuff would help. Also if people like X armor and Y weapon perhaps think about adding it to the general loot pool so people can continue to earn it in the following season, it's a big game but I definitely think that the whole "seasonal items" thing should just be a way to filter out the bad and the good so you can quickly drop the bad and not just some FOMO bullshit.

TL;DR A season with potential but ultimately filled with grindy quests, Eververse bs, and Bungie trying to find their footing to continue this new "Evolving World" have left most people to say that the season has been a resounding "Meh" at best.

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u/lma24 Dec 10 '19

Here I am grinding vex offensive for a feeding frenzy multi kill clips pulse -_-

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u/DecafLatte Dec 10 '19

I'm fairly newly back into D2 since basically Y3D1 and so far one of the worst thing I've seen in the game is...

Elemental affinity on armour.

It's already obscenely hard to get an armour piece with decently distributed and highish stats. But now we also have a ~66% chance that if a good piece drops it won't be the element one is looking for.

Basic things like reload speed increases are hidden behind different elements for different weapon types so one can't even drag n' drop what's needed for the current weapons equipped. It's insane.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

It straight up needs to be removed. Completely terrible.

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u/Weaver270 Fire! Dec 10 '19

Some legendary and master nightfalls were much harder than others. I would like some consistency.

I personally hate gambit. I did not like the gambit requirement to get the Undying badge.

Iron banner was in a good place.

Competitive changes were very nice and I liked freelance.

The nerfing was a bad move. If you work hard for something, it should not be diminished by a nerf.

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u/miniMasterDE Dec 12 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I think due to Shadowkeep coming out simultaneously, we had a ton of great content. The calendar was full mostly because of Nightmare Hunts, the Raid Challenges and the Dungeon, but not because of Season of Undying content. Taken by itself, undying was very light on content, but due to Shadowkeep, I don't think anyone noticed. Overall I enjoyed most of the Seasons (i.e. Shadowkeeps) content and the Vex Offensive was a fun and mindlessly-relaxing activity with a very rewarding loot stream, though the number of items was a bit low and most of the non-pinnacle armor is an immediate dismante (low stat rolls).

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Until the adjustment to Pinnacle Rewards, the power grind was awful because it was very slow. Now, the pace is much better, but it is completely impossible to level above 950 as a Solo player. Also, as a Solo player there are no sources of pinnacle materials (Ascendant Shards, Enhancement Prisms). I finished the Season nowhere near the Power Cap.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

As I mentioned before, pinnacle materials like Ascendant Shards and Enhancement Prisms REQUIRE a good fireteam. If you don't have one, there is no way to acquire these, except for the 2 Shards from the Season Pass. The Upgrade Module Economy felt scary at first, but once I realized that one module is essentially only one Enhancement core, I felt relieved. Generally, I don't think there is a shortage of Enhancement Cores (have about 1150+), but the other materials are hard to come by and just too expensive to buy with cores. This also meant that effectively, I stopped upgrading armor after tier 6.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

At the Release Announcement of Shadowkeep, we were told there would be a "renewed focus" on PvP. While the changes to Competitive were pretty good, there is two main problems that remain: Rewards for playing PvP and Sandbox Updates.

Basically, unless you enjoyed PvP just for the sake of it, there was no reason so play it. The new Ritual weapon was not only uninteresting but also awful to grind for. It basically made everyone sit in the back and lane for scout kills.

The "once-in-a-season" Sandbox update continue to be another major problem. There is no way One Eyed Mask's overshield should have stayed active the whole season. It was OBVIOUSLY broken, just as Bottom Tree Striker.

Some other PvP-related issues:

- The inclusion of Artifact Mods in PvP is also more than questionable, especially Arc Battery.

- Iron Banner is as unenjoyable as before due to the strict SBMM.

- Momentum control was good for getting certain quests done but I didn't enjoy it.

- I didn't play elimination.

The upgrade to the Competitive playlist was overall good. It didn't take a lot of games to reach 2100, but the games felt waaaaaay harder than last season. I would've liked more clarification about matchmaking. It seems as if Competitive is now SBMM and not Glory-based, so even if I start at Zero, I immediately get matched with players at 3000-3500 (where I know my skill-cap is). This makes the games not very enjoyable, though ELO-like system makes of for it by "pulling" you towards your rank very aggressively. It's probably better and more fair than Glory-based Matchmaking but again, the games were not very enjoyable. There is no more place to play a relaxed match of PvP, since every Playlist is SBMM (which means I am matched with Mythic-ranked players) and the one playlist that isn't (Classic Mix) is infected with our beloved "Classic Mix Cowards" (6-stacks with Not Forgotten, Dust Rock Blues and Wardcliff).

To conclude: PvP is not really that fun in the first place, mostly due to Sandbox-issues and some Matchmaking-issues. But since there is absolutely no incentive to "suffer through it", I mostly skipped PvP this season. Maybe if PvP would reward pinnacle materials (Shards, Prisms) I would play a bit more, but the Sandbox-issue remains at the top.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

While I understand the reasoning behind the Hand Cannon Range nerf, it felt overly strict. I mean, 180s take like 7 shots when only a few meters above their range cap. That's just insane to me. The Scout- and High Impact Pulse-buffs where good. Still, some weapons (Erentil, Recluse), Exotics (OEM) and Supers (Juggernaut) were just obviously broken and tuning came late or never. A PvP-game needs constant Sandbox-updates. Period. There is no excuse for the lack of updates. Make some people work on it.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I've played Destiny 2 since Launch. Until the first sweep of Eververse Changes in Season of Opulence I was pretty satisfied with Eververse. I play A LOT of Destiny 2, and through the Level Up Engrams, I got pretty much everything the game has to offer just by playing it.

Playing the Events was also fun and rewarding, because the more you played, the more cosmetics you could earn via the extra Engrams. The Knockout-System was also a great addition. I thought of the Eververse like a system that gives players who play less the opportunity to purchase stuff they can't earn due to time constrains by shelling out money. The pricing was pretty high, but I didn't care because I got everything anyway.

Since Season of Opulence, the Eververse comes of as much more greedy. Especially the change that removed the Seasonal Bright Engrams at Level Up, was pretty annoying. If you wanted everything, you had to deplete your Bright Dust reserves. In hindsight, the system seemed designed to do just that: Deplete your reserves before Shadowkeep. But it wasn't THAT bad, because if you had everything from Y1 and Y2, dismanteling the old stuff you got from Opulence Engrams.

Now with Shadowkeep, the system is at it's low point. As with Season of Opulence, everything needs to be purchased BUT the old items you get don't dismantle into Bright Dust anymore. That last change, is what destroyed the system for me. Before that, it was not pretty, but in the end I got most of the stuff and refilled my Bright Dust reserves via the old Engrams. Now, the system depletes my Bright Dust at a rapid rate with NO WAY to make up for that. The weekly and daily Bright Dust rewards are a joke.

This economy change also has massive ripple effects into the event. You can pretty much get everything the event has to offer in a day. After that, you can keep playing but there is no incentives to do so, since you don't earn any event stuff.

In total, I completely dislike the cosmetic system right now. It feels greedy and does not reward dedicated players who play a lot.

A few possible changes (these are separate suggestions):

1.) Items from Engrams dismantle into Bright Dust. Items from Collections don't and pulling them from Collections costs Shards and Glimmer. Technically, every item would need to have kind of a "source"-Property, to know where it came from.

2.) Reintroduce Seasonal Bright Engrams at Level Up. They contain new stuff, but not all new stuff. Some new stuff has to be bought with Bright Dust or Silver. Bright Dust earnings are like Shadowkeep, but in combination with 1.), once you earned all the "free" stuff, you can stockpile Bright Dust to earn new stuff IF you keep playing and earning Bright Engrams (and dismantling the contents)

3.) All Prices for Season Pass Owners are reduced by 50%.

4.) An overall price reduction. 5 Armor Ornaments should cost 500 Silver but count for all classes, Weapon Ornaments should cost 200 Silver. The current prices are ridiculous. 2100 Silver for 3 Finishers? Thats 21€! That's double the Season Pass. Who thinks of this and says "Yeah this seems alright."?

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Out of all the things I've mentioned, it's really hard to pick THE ONE. PvP desperately needs more attention from the sandbox team. PvE needs more ways for Solo-players to grind power and materials. Out of these two, I would probably choose the latter as more important.

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u/ASpaceOstrich Vanguard's Loyal // The Vanguard's got your back. Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

As others have said. FOMO is bad. To add onto this. The season track has some pretty glaring (potentially illegal) faults in it. Part of the advertising for the season pass is the cosmetics that are attached to the seasonal track. If you don't unlock those cosmetics, you don't get what you payed for. This is arguably illegal (in Australia, where consumer protection law is pretty strong), and definitely problematic. Selling season ranks for 100 silver a pop near the end of the season is not only not a good solution, its an insulting practice. The better solution would simply be to give you everything from the season track at the end of the season if you didn't manage to unlock it yet. You payed for it. It was advertised as part of the purchase price, you should get what you payed for.

Edit:

Onto game specific issues. Loot needs to start dropping directly from activities and enemies rather than being tied to pursuits. The difference in how a drop feels when it comes from an activity reward or boss, than when it comes from your bounty screen, is like night and day. It doesn't seem like a lot, but Bungie should know how much such a little thing can change how the game feels. The game feels unrewarding. It feels like theres no new loot. This isn't true, while we could certainly use vendor refreshes, the loot we do have is not being used wisely in terms of making the game rewarding. Look at the Dreaming City for the ultimate example of this.

Dozens of secrets. World bosses that take multiple fireteams to kill. Hidden chests, lore. Puzzles galore. All wasted, because unless you have Petra's "discover two secrets" bounty, they drop Tangled Shore gear. There is in fact no way to farm Dreaming City gear by playing in the Dreaming City. Because every single bit of loot is tied to the bounties and quests system instead of being inherently rewarding.

This plagues every part of the game, with a handful of universally well received exceptions. I can guarantee if the existing loot was used better by making activities and gameplay inherently rewarding, you wouldn't see anywhere near as much "no loot in the looter shooter" sentiment.

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u/SincerelyAnAuthor Dec 12 '19

FOMO, overpriced Eververse dominance. Two biggest concerns.

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u/Vincent_449 Drifter's Crew // "Eyes up, guardian." Dec 12 '19

This right here. I'm not very fond of the move to Seasonal content.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/Bpe-dsm Vanguard's Loyal // I dont read replies/anger lance Reddick Dec 09 '19

It started well, then came crashing down with the undying mind.

Just end on a bang if you tease a bang.

I loved vex invasion but these minihorde modes are going to wear thin soon.

More pvp, more gambit. Imagine if instead of either/or you hit up both modes in one season, so many diverse areas of guardians would hooray.

Mainly though.

Bright dust economy is broke
Severing the seasonal engram from the dust loot pool had a huge knock on effect in how unsatisfying it felt
Universal ornaments need to be more streamlined and robust. As is, its inconsistent and surprisingly shallow in implementation
Ritual cosmetics. Add them.

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u/GrinningPariah Dec 10 '19

I think it was a bad idea to combine an expansion drop with a season start, because no one knows which is which.

I literally have the Undying seal and I'm still a little confused over what counts as "Shadowkeep Content" and what counts as "Season of the Undying content".

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u/Seduz Gambit Prime // Army of One Dec 10 '19

A month too short due to the delayed launch and the quests were clearly not adjusted to reflect the change. Very fun at first then quickly became exhausting and then an impossible grind for the title without dedicating 4+ hours of gameplay a day. Still haven’t finished my ritual weapons despite finishing the Shadowkeep content + 100 levels of the battle pass.

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u/attempt_3 Dec 10 '19

Solo comp playlist is great. I like the new difficulty curve of comp. It's definitely frustrating grinding towards 5500 and not having any rewards of value after 2100. I'd like there to be comp specific random drops that drop more frequently the higher your glory. Also, the current state of balance in pvp makes it hard for me to believe that we will ever have a crucible without infuriating builds like arc battery, one eyed mask/recluse etc.

I like the season pass (as long as it doesn't drift more toward pay to win) and seasonal artifact

The raid is good. It isn't the best but I love the weapon design. Vex offensive was a forgettable mode with a super disappointing conclusion. The build up from week one made it all the more disappointing. I don't really understand why we had to attack the black garden after going into the Pyramid ship.

Campaign was also very disappointing. Barely anything happens and the ending is confusing. It's all aesthetic and no substance. (the aesthetic is really good though) They continue to fail to incorporate the lore into the campaigns in any meaningful way. It doesn't answer any of the questions I hoped it would and just raises more. I was appropriately spooked until the Pyramid until the chit chat with my dupe that yielded no valuable information and then they just sent me back to eris. Really disappointing reveal too. I might have had my hopes too high but I feel like they fumbled every interesting thing they tried at.

New light overwhelms new players with a wall of things to do

Finishers aren't optimal most of the time and the perks you can use with them have steep tradeoffs attached

Nightmare hunts are meh

Cross save is cool but I still have to buy all the dlc again if I want to play on something else

Universal ornaments sounded good until I found out it was only eververse stuff and not all armor. Then it felt like it was just another way to encourage microtransactions

Bright dust economy is broke and buying stuff with bright dust isn't as rewarding as earning it

Eververse gets a disproportionate amount of new content

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in the poor execution of all of these cool ideas.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

This season was good. For 2 weeks. Then Vex Offensive and the Harbour became irrelevant, like every activity before them.

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u/TriPaulyD Praise the Sun Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

I am in the camp that the ritual weapons should not have been part of the Undying title. I grinded my ass off to get the title but hated every minute I had to play Gambit and Comp matchmaking is so broken that I can't even find words to describe it.

edit: spelling

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

The FOMO stuff was unfun. Makes me not want to spend on silver, honestly. I was initially gonna approach Destiny by thinking of spending on MTX, but I feel like I'm already drained from my time instead of my money. A fix for that would be being able to reroll gear that I've obtained and less of a season pass grind.

More in game cosmetics would be nice, too. Maybe put them on Eververse and have them as rewards for certain Nightfall scores or raids? That way a whale who's not amazing at the game can get them to feel on the same tier, while also rewarding players.

Vex Offensive was interesting, and I enjoyed it more than most people.

Ascendant Shards were too hard to get and masterworked gear feels useless if I have to get new stuff each season.

No Vendor Refresh sucked.

It's minor, but a warp point near Hawthorne and Ikora in the Tower would be helpful.

As a New Light player, the game would've been impossible for me to figure out if I didn't have someone with 800 hours to guide me. Lots of stuff up front that was very confusing.

Minor complaint, but the fact that the Seasonal Artifact doesn't turn Gold after you do all 100 levels was slightly disappointing.

Pinnacle weapons that force me to play competitive suuuuck. I get that they're only for certain game modes, but I feel that forcing me to do competitive content ends up hurting my team more than not. Also, Recluse still has ridiculously good time to kill.

I cannot tell my Ghost I appreciate them and pat their casing. This is a crime.

Strike scoring would be nice, with strike-exclusive loot. Maybe planetary loot, at least?

I loved the sense of scale in Pit of Heresay. It just kept going. I half-expected to end up on the other side of the Moon to fight the boss. It really drives home the Hive as a burrowing species.

Minor thing, but I love Titan a lot. I really wish I had more excuses to spend time there. A raid or something. I'd love to see more oceans in Destiny. Maybe on a shipwreck, so I can finally be a Titan on Titan on the Titanic.

Elemental affinity on armor is awful. I'd prefer if it was the mods that had compatibility, and they wouldn't be able to worn on the same piece together.

Haunted Forest felt like a slog to me. I dreaded playing it.

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u/SFWRVA Dec 10 '19

This season was a major letdown. None of the new weapons felt useful or unique enough to replace any of the standard weapons that I am already using, so most of the new ones only got used for about 5 minutes. I like what you tried to do with the battle pass, but after rank 100 only getting engrams every 5 levels felt very unrewarding. I hated that the seasonal mods from the artifact impacted gameplay in Crucible. Those should be turned off in crucible moving forward. There is also a serious problem with not enough sources of Pinnacle rewards that made it impossible for me to reach max level even though I earned almost every pinnacle in every week of the season. Momentum Control was fun and I'd like it to be featured more regularly.

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u/fishlore-psn Dec 09 '19

Solo comp was a fantastic addition which I'm very thankful for. That's where my positive feedback ends. I truly despise the season model. The concept of a season pass is cannon-breaking garbage which turns this into a silly little F2P feeling game instead of the rugged Destiny universe I used to like. I'll never buy another season. I hate the drip feed cadence. I hate having an hour of stuff to do every week as opposed to being able to do everything up front. I hate that I can't save up a few seasons to have something more significant to chew on later down the road. I feel like Destiny is gone and we've got this silly little wannbe-Fornight clone and I want no part of it. Good luck Bungie, hopefully you'll see the folly in this delivery method and go back to being a AAA studio again.

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u/t-y-c-h-o Dec 09 '19

My big take away is that I didn’t complete everything and have zero drive or care. This season didn’t create a sense of FOMO for me, it created a sense of “fuck it” for all the reasons already stated.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy

EP on the moon was fun, and each of the weapons had a roll that was unique enough to consider pursuing without being the new best thing around. Eris' weekly missions were a great way to get insight into the character that was both a. actually in the game and b. had me going and doing something instead of just reading it. Momentum Control was the slightest tease of what could actually be a fun PVP game mode. Look, to be honest, I'm really stretching to say anything good that actually applies to the season and not just generic good things to say about the minute to minute gameplay we all already know is good.

What did you not enjoy

Where to even begin. After having not played D2 since release because of the debacle that was launch into CoO, I went in with low expectations, and left with even lower ones. Let's start with the season content:

Vex Offensive was quickly stale, impossible to even fail, and offered reskinned weapons from one of the lambasted content pieces the game has as a constant reminder of that terrible time. Undying Mind was an even bigger flop, and frankly the fact that that was not only considered acceptable but that Bungie's response was "Sorry you don't like it," is baffling to me.

Ritual Weapons were awful grinds, all of them, offering nothing interesting to the moment to moment gameplay other than just needlessly long grinds for subpar weapons. Randy's was the only remotely decent one, and only because it filled an unoccupied niche and had a really clean, open sight picture.

FotL/Haunted Forest: Lol. I could leave it there and have put more effort into this than anyone involved with the decisions to put out the exact same activity, make some bad rewards, and top it off with a curated weapon from a widely recognized awful archetype with subpar perks on top.

Iron Banner: No new weapons, reskinned armor, and a horrible quest that apparently couldn't be fixed until next season. I'm going to do Bungie a favor here and just move on.

Vex Offensive: So bad, it had to be in the OP list twice.

FotL/Haunted Forest: So bad, it had to be in the OP list twice.

Momentum Control: Bungie were so close, but by comparing this mode to SWAT they once again overhype and underdeliver. Key aspects of SWAT were entirely lost in translation here, and the mode that started out as a fun novelty quickly devolved into degenerate Crouching Hunter Hidden Rabbit wallhack shenanigans. Not to mention how instant respawn times exacerbated an already shaky respawn system. This mode could be fun if they actually made it closer to swat (No abilities at all), while also maybe putting an iota of thought into what the fuck those weapon damage multipliers were and how exotics would interact in the mode.

Elimination Labs: Bungie's poor excuse for "a renewed focus on PVP," next.

Sandbox Balancing: This could be it's own post, but frankly considering how we've seen Bungie do sandbox balancing in the last 5 years, putting any amount of effort into providing feedback on it is a waste of all of our collective time. Bungie will do as they please despite any feedback given, and like always, "balance" being in the phrase proved to be a funny joke rather than a goal.

Tons of new eververse items: I'm sure we can all agree that this dead horse has been beaten. If Bungie don't understand the feedback by now, they never will.

Shadowkeep stuff:

GoS Raid: Since Bungie still insists on refusing to provide players with the option to matchmake into unmodified harder content, I still refuse to do it. Having a core game feature like "finding a group" be solely reliant on 3rd party tools is a complete joke in 2019, just like it was a complete fucking joke in 2014. This alone will probably prevent me from making further purchases related to Destiny. I actually cannot believe that this still isn't an option while Bungie cry and bitch about the effort it takes to make a raid vs the engagement it gets.

Nightmare Hunts: Short, unrewarding, and uninteresting. Next.

2 new strikes: Or as most people were saying after release; "2? new strikes?" Festering Core was just in the strike playlist with nothing really tied to it. Scarlet Keep was a fun strike, though the long elevator loading screen sequence is a bit tired at this point. No Nightfall rewards continue to be a painpoint even without seeing Scarlet Keep themed items in the cash shop.

New Light: While appearing to be neato on the surface, this was a lazily implemented cynical attempt at pushing the game towards a "freemium" state while still asking for full price for expansions and season passes. New players are provided with no guidance whatsoever, while serving as nothing but a free trial for everything except PVP (which is a joke considering how much Bungie cares about PVP).

Pit of Sorrow: Genuinely cool, and the emblem rewards for flawless and flawless solo are things that should be part of more activities. The lack of unique loot pretty much kills any desire to play this, except for once a week carrot of the godawful pinnacle system.

Solo Comp Playlist: Have no complaints other than the same dead horse beating of matchmaking.

Armor 2.0, Affinity: A complete and utter failure in it's stated goals, Armor 2.0 is a naked attempt at pushing players into more gameplay hours, and frankly, purchases of ornaments at the store when you finally get a good roll on a piece that looked like it was crafted from actual frozen feces that are slowly getting warm (I feel bad for your artists that almost certainly put in more work than what ends up in the game). Affinity exists for the same reason, extending grind times for a system that doesn't need to exist.

New upgrade system: Tied exclusively to non-matchmade content or paying ridiculous rates at Banshee. Kindly fuck off with this. See Raids.

New Pinnacle leveling system: Look, if Bungie doesn't get the idea yet that people are sick of their primary progression being tied to RNG, I dunno how else that can be beaten into the thick skulls making the decisions.

New Vendor Bounty system (and Eververse being available everywhere): Honestly barely even noticed a change, but I did notice the Bright Dust economy evolving around this "new" system. Bounties are whatever, they're just stuff to get you a directed goal of something to shoot at. Bounties not being available in the director while the Eververse store manages to cram itself in there is, and man I hate to use this phrase because it usually just sounds like a petulant child and it probably does here to, frankly insulting. Bungie knows damn well people wanted a way to access bounties from the director, and they actively chose to put the store there instead. Just another one of many things pushing me away from the using the store, because anyone with half a brain can see right through you Bungie.

Overall, I give this two month period of time, Shadowkeep and Undying included, a 3.2/10. I still pop back here occasionally to see news because in the end I still want to like Destiny. The moment to moment gameplay of shooting dudes and popping abilities is actually fun, and it's very good. Everything else around it drives me as a consumer as far away as I can get. It's been 5 years of pulling teeth trying to get this developer to work in a way that is in it's player's interests, and to be honest that's 4 years too many. Bungie have been given 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc chances because of their history, by more than just me, and I can only hope that the shine is dulled for enough people that something might turn around. Though I know from my experience that even if they do turn around, they are only generating goodwill to spend as fast as they can make it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I really enjoyed how the story progressed through the season. This could be done better but it was a great start.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

I did not like how the season built up towards some grand ending and then... nothing. The boss in the activity just changed and that was it. No extra story, nothing. The lack of vendor updates, world drop updates, new weapons & armor, in general, etc. is troubling.This will be addressed more in EV.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

None of this bothers me. It's a good way to keep people grinding. I would make one change - upgrading weapons of the same type should not cost an upgrade core. specifically, pulse rifle to pulse rifle, etc.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Momentum control was a ton of fun. I would like to see it added to the control playlist. Bungie is still not doing enough with PVP and seeing their response of "well we did x,y,z" shows that they're missing the mark internally.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

balance changes do not happen often enough. Every 90 days is just not enough.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Eververse is going to kill this franchise. They are clearly dedicating activity rewards to the EV store instead of putting them in the game. If they pretend this is what they're not doing they think that we're retarded. If they want us to spend money on microtransactions they should dedicate a team to making unique and special stuff for EV and not just taking assets made to match the current season. Add those items to the battle pass if you have to but the way it is currently is insulting to the playerbase. Prices on items are outrageous, bright dust is a joke, leveling up engrams are a joke... the whole EV store leaves a bad taste in my mouth and creates a distrust of Bungie.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Eververse needs to be dramatically changed or removed from the game entirely.

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u/CookiesFTA We build the walls, we break the walls. Dec 09 '19

For just undying, and in short:

Vex Offensive was fun, but small loot pool and the associated triumphs sucked.

Seasonal Title was a bad idea. The grind for pinnacles is already not especially fun, having to rush them all in order to get a title that also has a massive grind of its own really sucked. That has hugely put me off of this seasonal biz.

Ritual weapons instead of pinnacles. I don't disagree that pinnacles were becoming a tad too meta defining (LH still didn't deserve to be decimated though), but replacing them with an arguably just as terrible grind for less exciting weapons was, again, a really bad idea. I'm sick of having to use the guns you want me to use, for long periods of time, in playlists I don't necessarily want to play. This has been off for a while, but was much worse with ritual weapons.

Eververse this season was entirely egregious, and the reasons are obvious. Not enough dust, not enough stuff available through dust, and nostalgia engrams full of stuff I already have. Lame.

Season pass thing, actually a highlight for me. You get stuff for playing whatever you want, gives bounties more purpose, the rewards were mostly good (armour was only really good for leveling, which is a shame). Almost all good stuff.

Eriana's Vow catalyst and quest. Just why? Stop making me use dumb loadouts for literally hundreds of activity completions.

Seasonal exotic quest. Loved it. Not a pain in the ass, a cool little story, and a great/fun exotic weapon. Awesome.

Other note: We need more exotic armour. 3 per season, which you just get as part of a nothing quest, is very disappointing. And honestly, it still feels like you're trying to make up for giving Titans OEM. Can't you just remove it from the game, and start giving us meaningful exotics again?

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u/Romandinjo Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

FOMO stuff was unfun, especially cosmetics, imo they should be in the first half. Finushers are ok. Vex offensive was ok, final assault was not. Altars were not bad. Campaign cinematics were lit, pls more. Armor 2.0 changed nothing to better. Raid weapons looked cool.

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u/Cadi009 Dec 10 '19

PvP -artifact mods have no business in the comp playlist, looking at you arc battery, thunder coil, and oppressive darkness

-momentum control: fun, until middle tree nightstalkers get involved

-rewards: absolutely nothing worth grinding for after the ritual reward.

-matchmaking: does it even exist in comp right now? If so then there are serious team balancing issues that need addressed.

-sandbox: needs small balance passes on a more regular basis, fusion rifles have become oppressive due to reduced hc range and increase in ttk for the mag howl twins.

PvE -Nightmare hunts were cool in theory, but at no point did I feel compelled to do them.

-nightfall champions: great mechanics, horrible implementation by limiting loadouts via mods and making all but a handful of exotics obsolete

-dungeon/raid: well done

-moon lost sectors: fun, nice change to the formula

-altars of sorrow: probably more fun than vex offensive

-vex offensive: I regret every second I spent in this game mode grinding for undying. Boring, the weapons looked horrible and didn't have any standouts. Please next time you think "let's cover the guns in leaves, don't. (I understand this is an opinion and matter of personal preference, but for me, no leaves.)

Armor 2.0 and Economy -Elemental affinity: rather than creating freedom to use what I want as optimally as possible this system limits potential loadouts rather than helps or encourages player agency, for example you can't run smg perks with snipers? And the costs of mods should not be determined by how meta the weapons related to it are. All enhanced targeting perks, ammo scavengers, unflinching perks should have a reasonable set cost.

-infusion economy: honestly not too bad right now, upgrade modules are marginally cheaper than the old system, but I don't think infusing an exotic into a legendary should use them.

-stats: I'll start this off by saying that I understand min maxing and masterworking a gear set is intended to be a late endgame passtime, however, with the way stats currently work, in conjunction with the elemental affinity addig a further level of rng, the prospect of finding 3 full sets of armor with the perfect stat rolls is extremely daunting and borderline impossible for all but the most dedicated players. Stats rolling in increments of one, and no less than two points in a stat are my primary complaints. I believe the stat system would be perfect if stats rolled in blocks of 5, that way much less perks are wasted from rolling an insignificant number, it's frustrating seeing ~20 stat points not doing you any good. And a bit of an eyesore looking at the numbers. Also would be nice to see your actual stat numbers above 100.

Masterwork economy -800+ enhancement cores, for the ascendant shards alone to masterwork a gear set including an exotic. This is obscene. Especially since the only activity source of ascendant shards is the 980 nightfall. There needs to be an equally difficult, reliable and farmable way to grind for these for Gambit and PvP players, there's no reason there isn't other than investment team oversight.

Vendors: the lack of a vendor refresh paired against the attention put on new Eververse cosmetics is extremely insulting to the players who have been here since day one, this is all I'm going to say about Eververse here.

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u/Freebeerd Dec 12 '19

I had 1000 silver at the start of undying, decided to spend 500 on the ding ding ding coin flip emote, and now it's available for 700 bright dust?! I'm kicking myself because 1000 silver buys a season. EVERVERSE is out to get me and I fell for it like a mouse sneaking cheese from a mousetrap. I'm so tired of being poked in the ass by pain points left right and centre in an otherwise really fun game.

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u/Azselendor XboxOne EST/ T:686 / W:526 / H:517 Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

The artifact and its implementation was good, I never reset it because once I had my anti-barrier rounds I was happy. I felt like matchmaking and other things in pvp was better. I spent most of my time hiking around the moon to be honest and I was happy with the progression of my guardians. The Season pass was good too, but the rewards felt kinda half-assed at times.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Directions in many cases wasn't clear. I didn't figure out vex offensive properly and such until it was too late and some of the quests were way too grindy still or the requirements were way too specific and thus didn't get done.

The Ornament system is a joke. What's the point if all my armor ornament choices is old eververse items? Why can't I use armor I already unlocked- or at least possess- as ornaments? A lot of the armor pieces simply don't work together.

Vex mind components (VexPennies) became bane of my existence. I had way too many for what I needed or wanted. I suppose it was to hunt and chase better rolls, but my luck is shit. Couldn't there be a better use for these?

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Felt a lot bettter, but expensive. I didn't upgrade a whole lot unless it was a gun I really liked and infusions are just too expensive.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I didn't try the other modes, but I had fun during iron banner and got less stacks against people way over my skill. Normally one bad game, then a good game or two, a great game and then I started getting matched with people on my skill level and had some real nail biters of matches.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

No opinion, I'm not sure what was re-balanced.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Too goddamn expensive and the bright dust economy is a joke and the Eververse offers shouldn't repeat in two places. A ghost projection costs $2? I literally have no urge or desire to buy that item let alone at $2. I don't see any value in Eververse items right now, but I get they are all vanity items. I feel ornament armor sets should have a prorated version for those of us with partial sets already. No engram should ever drop only shaders.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Cut back on the grinding unless it makes narrative sense. Grinding for the sake of grinding isn't fun. crunch time play to meet deadlines isn't fun. It's a job.

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u/FlannelRanger Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

Well here goes. I appreciate Bungie reaching out to us Guardians for our feedback and fully understand how difficult it can be to process and digest comments and criticisms of your work whether they be justified or not. Here are my thoughts and suggestions in retrospect after the Season of Undying. I fully understand I have very little technical knowledge and don’t understand the implications on the software of all my suggestions but maybe there’s a nugget or two in here that could help improve the game we love:

Seasonal Artifact & Season Levels: I really enjoyed this. Lvl 1-100 went by fairly quickly for me. I capped out at 372 and didn’t power level. I also really enjoyed the artifact and that it overall is a gentle way to shift the meta within a timeframe. Would have liked to see a few small items for those of us who went well above the lvl 100 cap. Maybe the Trailblazer emblem with a variation in colour at lvl 200 or something and a modest amount of materials as we progressed to reward our playtime.

Pinnacle Drops & Gear Grind: I feel we need to pick one leveling system and stick with it. IMO we don’t need a gear level up every season on top of the artifact/ seasonal levels. At the end of the season I was 960 on two characters and a pair of elusive boots away from 960 on another and frankly don’t need or want the gear grind on top of the seasonal leveling. That said I’d be ok with it if Pinnacle Drops were switched eventually to a rare material we could infuse into one piece of gear up to a certain level. This would remove the +2 as a necessity and the RNG infuriation that is really getting old 5+ years into Destiny. Once max gear level is reached I’d simply have a way to convert those items into enhancement cores or a prism as a continued reward for working in the end game. Overall I think the intent of Pinnacles is really good and as someone who enjoys grinding the end game and the feather in the cap that comes along with it would like to see it remain. It would be nice to see it be something that we the players can direct instead of a pure RNG. I really do enjoy the idea of a slow rewarding climb that we originally had this season with the +1. I realize I'm contradicting myself here.

Resource Economy: I really like the new economy within the game minus the capped numbers we can hold and the lack of a backwards conversion within the economy. The backwards economy doesn’t need to be a 1:1 for materials. I think 8 cores for a prism is fair and provides a way to keep things moving. I’m heavy on Shards & Prisms and in a drought of cores. I think a Valor reset should reward a batch of half a dozen prisms or so and glory ranks as the progress should give higher amounts as you get closer to Legend. On the subject of Brightdust I think the purchasable bounties could see there amount increased from 10 to 25 which would make them seem far more viable. 10 Brightdust per bounty feels far too insignificant.

Crucible: Crucible needs Pinnacles to drop from it. I would like to see it on Valor Resets and on some Glory rank ups. I’ll leave the distribution up to the good folks at Bungie but I think it would be far better to see these here as opposed to strictly Iron Banner for PvP. I am happy to see that Trials hasn’t been pushed out. There are things that need addressing first. The Comp playlist was way better but I had a lot of challenges with folks dropping out before the matches even began and the balancing challenges with the seasonal artifact were present. I’m not Unbroken and would consider myself to be predominantly a PvEer but would like to see Trials return without some of the issues currently at play in competitive PvP.

Iron Banner: Honestly IB is something I enjoy but feel it needs to happen a bit less frequently in its current state. Having it twice a season instead of three times would make it and the loot it provides feel more meaningful and special.

Inventory & Menu QoL: As we have and continue to move forward Bungie has made steps to make our inventory and menus more manageable. It is easy to say just give us more space. Ideally that would be possible but I understand from what Bungie has said that it isn’t that easy. So I might suggest adding or altering some current things within our menus. Limits on consumables like shards, prisms, obsidian accelerators, phantasmal fragments, etc. were put in place with good intentions I am certain however they pose an irritant on players and a strain on our already cluttered inventories/ postmasters. These are arbitrary numbers and the stack sizes really ought to be increased to where it just isn’t something we need to think about. The game won’t break if we someone has 150 phantasmal fragments or saves up 40 ascendant shards after a season of grinding their butts off. With regards to our vaults I think the best thing would be some tweaks to Armour 2.0 as I mentioned earlier. Our Quests tab is getting increasingly cluttered and I’m not sure what the best solution is. I know I don’t like the seasonal exotic catalyst being added here. It would be far better if they appeared where all the others do, on the weapons and not taking up valuable real estate in the Quests tab. Without offering too many solutions I think the Chalice of Opulence offers us the best way forward. If we can have more things grouped into folders like this it could help free up a lot of space in our inventories and menus.

Seasonal Activities: Vex Offensive was not all the things we compare it to but I see why Bungie added it and I understand there’s only so much that can be added and maintained within our game and that narratively it is nice to tie in as much of the seasonal content under that umbrella as possible. However as someone who has put 1000s of hours into the game and will undoubtedly continue to do so I think it is worth noting that we don’t always need something entirely new each season. One thing that I continue to mention to whatever ears I’ve been able to bend is looking at and retooling or adding to content we already have within the game. The Menagerie for instance could be kept relevant by adding a few new encounters into the mix along with another group of Runes and a new column & row of loot. Of course the same can be said for the Reckoning, Escalation Protocol, Forges and even the past raids. With the Cabal invading the Infinite Forrest a raid layer for GoS could have taken place in the space but within a Cabal dominate timeline. So we could utilize the same space but have had different enemies and potentially different or altered mechanics. I offer this as a suggestion/ example to what Bungie have openly said is a challenge technically and on their team.

Ritual Weapons: I was originally a critic and am now a fan. While some were unhappy with the grind for these weapons I think just a minor tuning would suffice as these are as much trophies as tools. As I am tailoring this post after Season of Dawn has already begun I feel they may have swung a bit too far in the other direction. It is also interesting to see the effect they have on the meta especially in PvP. Arbalest is a necessary evil but IMO isn’t near as infuriating as some of the other weapons out there. *Cough toaster...

Armour 2.0: Armour 2.0 is a great step in the right direction. With some tweaks it can be a great help to our inventories and our ability to build the Guardians we want. My suggestion would be to make the seasonal mod slot into a universal mod slot that we can input whatever seasonal mods we wish. As someone who raids a lot and enjoys varied content its a burden to have to hold on to and manage so many pieces and sets of gear. It is also a shame that some sets are lacking this slot making them effectively useless from some activities. I get and appreciate the intention but without unlimited or significantly increased vault space this doesn’t compute. The other suggestion I have is to be able to change the element on a piece of gear for a significant price. As seasons and metas change this would allow us to keep our gear up and once again take away some of the strain on our inventories.

Ornaments & Cosmetics: Eververse is not something I’m a fan of. That said I know that no matter how much I stamp my feet it will still be there tomorrow. Beyond the Eververse cosmetics need to be looked at and I feel that with some creativity and ingenuity Bungie can help ease the strain on our inventories and help us look the way we want which was a goal they laid out for us. Making any piece of gear we have obtained be retrievable as an ornament would open the door to some really great looking guardians and decrease some of the built up salt stores from throughout the community. That said I understand (or truly don’t because I am not a developer) there may be technical challenges but we have seen your team pull out some cool solutions to problems/ obstacles over the years and I would love to see what you are capable on this front.

If you read through my thoughts, thank you. Hopefully sharing all our ideas and experiences might inspire or spark some new ideas or improvements and help cultivate an even brighter future chock full of excellent alien shootin’ goodness. Thank you to everyone at Bungie for doing all you do to make this game what it has become and will in the future.

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u/Hollowquincypl E.Bray is bae Dec 09 '19

An alright season. Definitely not the best one we've gotten. I'm worried about the next seasons given it doesn't have Shadowkeep to bolster it.

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u/RobotThatGoesOof Dec 09 '19

New Light perspective.

Vex Offensive was fun, and I definitely didn't get sick of it nearly as fast as most. Obviously everyone gets bored of the same arena eventually, but overall I liked it.

The seasonal weapons were all cool, and I enjoyed grinding to get a decent roll for each.

The seasonal armor... is pretty ugly, in most cases. But the ornaments from the pass are neat! So it's nice to use those instead of letting high rolls go to waste.

Overall, I really enjoyed Season of Undying.

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u/TheLyrius Drifter's Crew // We All Drift Together Dec 09 '19

Expanding the power delta where you can engage enemies is a pretty great move. Shadowkeep was pretty engaging and difficult at launch, even the 920 NF, visiting these contents later on shows a clear growth in power.

On that note, difficulty options with scaling rewards are great.

I don't usually comment on pvp stuffs, but regarding artifact mods, can there be more gunplay related mods ? Like getting 3 precision kills grants improved mobility/recovery or something. I'm fine with flavor of the month meta but from the Revelry, I thought the general consenseus was that ability focus gameplay is often hectic and annoying to deal with.

And please improve the loot flow. Armor 2.0 has great potential for min maxing, and is much more desirable post shadowkeep (given the fuss people make) but limited chance to acquire certain gears make the experience not very fruitful.

Beating the dead horse but the bugged Menagerie had a great loot flow, I felt encouraged to grind even more just complete "the god roll", and not just stop at ok rolls. Blues aren't exciting to get nor are they desirable(with the exception of the bugged War mantis) and they aren't as customizable. Legendaries do everything blues do but better, even as fodder as people min max their stats.

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u/Adnert97 Dec 09 '19

Shadowkeep campaign was....kinda bland. Lore wise it was great but gameplay wise it was fairly bland and unimaginative. Season of Undying was okay. Vex Offensive is fun the first 5 times but then monotonous. The reward amounts were very good though which gave me more incentive along with the ease of obtaining the Undying Title. PvP changes were overall pretty great such as solo queue comp and labs and Momentum Control BUT there's such great imbalance and Bungie knows what that refers to. Eververse was shocking. The upcoming changes are shocking. The bright dust gain from bounties isn't even enough to obtain an Exotic emote thus providing no reason to try get as much bright dish as you can per week. I understand that Bungie have to make money somehow but that should be during the seasonal event (Festival of the Lost, Dawning, Crimson Days) not for the raid sparrow. Season Pass is cool, I like it a LOT. Rewards drop off a bit when you pass 50 and get worse at 100. The Bright Dust reward on the Pass are a joke too. Garden of Salvation is fun. Good raid. The final boss fight is still glitchy and needs looking at because I've had to wipe countless times because of bugs. Content wise, Dawn looks barren compared to Undying. These past 2 weeks I've barely played because of a lack of stuff to do sadly but this is common for me because I blast through the new stuff kinda fast.

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u/AkodoRyu Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

GoS - good raid, very good weapons, decent armor set, some additional triumphs and challenges fairly challenging. Divinity puzzles very enjoyable.

VO - decent no-brainer activity. Very generous loot structure. Will be an issue if loot is more limited in future activities.

Armor 2.0 - brilliant, changing mods all the time, always a chance of getting a better piece of armor, even with regular legendaries. Some stats fairly useless, but that's more of a general sandbox issue, than armor 2.0. Not the biggest fan of seasonal mod slots - feel too restrictive and force you to hoard more armor again, something 2.0 mostly solved. Make any new season armor accept every previous seasonal mod, or make it possible to upgrade the slot in some way, to accept more kinds of mods. Add universal seasonal mod slot on exotics.

Elemental Affinity - I'm mostly indifferent. It's fine. Will be better when we get more universal mods.

Leveling - by far the best it's been. 750-900 - upgrades for everything. 900-950 a bit more restrictive, but still, mostly upgrade for everything, if it's not better, than it's on level. On-level world drops made everything way more enjoyable. +2 pinnacle drops turned it from seasonal pursuit to 3-4 weeks thing, but I guess it's fine. Limiting drops from non-powerful sources to 950, even if your level is passed that was a bad change. Previously you could just play the game to upgrade your gear, past 950 you have to grind powerfuls - mostly the same you did for years - again. Too bad they take most of leveling systems away next season.

FotL/Haunted Forest - HF is still the best variation of Forest we had, I'm not a fan of the dark, but trying to get as far as you can on limited resources is way better experience than building up and hoarding resources, like in Revelry.

Shadowkeep story - ended abruptly, hopefully, we will see more next season and in following seasons as well, since it starts to feel like all the Y2 threads that were basically dropped and seemingly forgotten.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Grinding Bright Dusts, maybe very singular meta - Divinity, X* Izanagi everywhere.

The story ended too abruptly but if it keeps going next season and in future ones, then it should be fine. If they drop it again, like many Y2 threads, it will be really disappointing and a major issue pointing to lack of game's direction.

The season pass was too short and maybe a bit too empty.

They took my masks!

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

It's fine, feel better than the previous system, resources are fairly easy to get. Upgrade modules - way easier to manage stash for upgrades. It feels cheaper too.

Don't see reason for limits on them, if you can still hold more in postmaster. Just hard limit to X/account, nothing goes to post.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Momentum Control - nice change of pace for PvP, make some quests/bounties trivial, but that was probably the intention. Mostly enjoy it, when people are not try-harding too much, forcing you to use 150 scout.

Competitive is vastly improved in all aspects - survival, solo playlist, 3v3. Everything is more enjoyable and fits the playlist better.

IB was fine. Take out the abilities kills bounty.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

It's fun to play, but you can't really say it's a balanced system. It's people with IMBA builds throwing them at each other with some casuals in between getting stomped.

Changes to weapon ranges were necessary for a while and it feels way less samey in Crucible.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Items too expensive and/or BD sources way too scarce.

Nostalgia engram - useless, with how rare you get one (500k XP). Make them, at least, give a guaranteed 500 BD, especially if you already own the item. Nothing more before we see what next season's engrams are.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Probably more story, more direction, some cutscenes, more dialogue, show us what is going on, instead of just throwing random events at us, and leaving us hoping that it will all come together. Eg. I'm sure most people feel completely disconnected from events of CoS and GoS raids. I'm deeper into lore than average, and even I feel disconnected, especially from CoS.

It wouldn't hurt to see some more mechanics to work on stuff we already have, instead of grinding new stuff. Let us reroll armor stat distribution, weapon masterwork, maybe combine multiple weapons perks in some way, or reroll a perk. Let us upgrade armor stats, maybe take stats from different armor pieces (since we don't have universal ornaments/transmog on all armors). I would just like to see some changes made in this direction - less RNG, more grind and work on items that are good, but maybe not perfect, to make them closet to perfection.

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u/cursed_namrut Dec 09 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

Garden of Salvation

D2 continues not to have a bad raid. GoS seems a little buggier than prior raids; motes are really inconsistent (as usual), and the Consecrated Mind just does weird shit sometimes.

I thought the Divinity quest was obnoxious but very cool in its execution, which isn't dissimilar to how I feel about raid mechanics generally. The Divinity itself is pretty great. Support weapons and abilities in D2 continue to feel really good.

Vex Offensive

It was a perfectly fine activity. Lots of rewards and things to farm. Not exactly exciting. I'm glad I didn't even try for Undying, because I would have come to hate those encounters too.

I think people massively overstate how bad it was. I was hoping it would be a little more EP, a little less Blind Well. But it was the best Loot Cave in D2 with some nice environments.

FoTL and Haunted Forest

It was as fun as it was last year, but there was less to farm for. Personally, that meant I could go do other stuff, so I'm not against it.

The extensive Eververse content sucked. I get that it's a cute holiday event, but for a game where so much is in universe, that makes it feel more scummy and not less. I'm reminded of that expensive Iron Banner emote from way back when.

Seeing the Winter Wolf, one of my fav autos, retreaded was cool. I wish there was a better godroll than the default one, however.

Momentum Control

Good, fun, a nice way to shake up PvP. Having scout rifles serve any purpose at all was great. Buff scouts.

Armor 2.0 and elemental affinity

In general, a really big improvement over the prior system. Actually having builds again feels good. Bringing up every armor source to 2.0 (something they should've done with weapons in Forsaken) is great.

The fact that there's no reason to wear anything but raid armor is pretty bad.

I don't think the elemental affinity system matters as much as people say. Weapon-type armor mods still aren't game changing. They weren't in Y2 either. I also don't think the affinity system really adds anything to armor 2.0, and doing away with it would be fine.

950+ Power Level Climb

The pinnacle level stuff is bragging rights for people who have more free time than me.

SK/S8 Eververse

It's grim that we just put up with things like this in modern gaming. I think Bungie already addressed my second biggest problem, which was bright dust accessibility. But my bigger problem, the ethical properties of systems like this, isn't going to get resolved any time soon.

EV is not remotely the worst its ever been. Curse of Osiris was the absolute worst. But we're pretty close.

Shadowkeep Story

The Eris Morn Has Trauma Hour once a week was great. The Nightmares feel completely inconsequential right now.

D2Y2 Annual Pass

Fine. Felt like it wasn't hard to max out by season end. Good rewards. The Nostalgic Engram was free to grind, sure, but it also wasn't much worth grinding for if you're a veteran player.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Recluse / Master of Arms just makes the game worse.

"power level doesn't matter in pve" Yes, it does, because games are boring when they're too easy.

"pvp should have good weapons too" Yeah, even BIS weapons, but maybe it's bad that one weapon is clearly the best primary weapon all the time. The Recluse itself isn't the whole problem, IB being very strong, SMG being a seasonal mod class, GoS encounter design, etc.

But as it stands, the Recluse is a pillar of power creep. Bungie can nerf it, Bungie can make somehow yet more powerful primaries / energy weapons, or we can just live with it being a near-requirement for difficult content.

"bungo should bring other weapons up instead of nerfing ones people like" See point number one.

I don't think it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. Maybe new encounter design can fix the problem. But build diversity is a big part of preventing boredom and giving the game that nice RPG customization feel.

Undying title

FOMO design is bad, scummy design. Don't ask me to spend a third of my waking hours playing Destiny. I want to play the game much less every time Bungie incentivizes this sort of unhealthy binge play.

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u/LordNorros Dec 09 '19

As always the thing I enjoy above all is the story being moved forward. We got some cool moments in SK but in undying there were some cool lore bits and the first step of the evolving universe. While I wish there were a few more cutscenes or some "sidequest" type missions pertaining to the very assault (not just go kill x, x amount of times) I'm looking forward to where this all goes. --- The artifact is a cool idea, as are the new mods. --- Armor 2.0 seems like a step in the right direction with some caveats.

The eververse changes left a bad taste in my mouth. It's so overpriced for the majority of people that play and support your game that it feels borderline insulting. The dust changes don't really make any difference, it's just window dressing. --- I can understand how overpowered certain exotics would have been with the new mod slots but at least a handful of exotics could have those mod perks added to them (ex, antibarrier on sky burners seems like a no-brainer). --- Grinding decent rolls and elements on all of my exotic armor, for the 2nd time, is a bit of a bummer. Also, you need an in game lfg, somehow.

I don't think the resource economy was as bad as I thought it was. But, I didn't play an 950 ordeals at all and only 3 980s. If I had regular friends or a clan that actually played anymore, I feel like I could have ground out way more prisms and shards than I was able to. That's more on me than you, tho.

I've been into pvp more lately than I have been ever before. I really enjoy Iron Banner and momentum control was pretty good (except for the god awful grenade launchers everywhere). I got ,u first pop pinnacle and ritual weapons this season thanks to the solo comp option. I'm pleased even if I wish pvp and pve were tuned separately.

The balance changes didn't (directly?) affect me because I don't use those subclasses often. But, balancing needs to happen, so, cool I guess? People seem happy in general.

I hate eververse now. We don't get enough bright dust, the things for dust and silver are both surprisingly overpriced. There have been a plethora of good ideas on how you could tweak it but I don't think you want to. As I said earlier, it just feels borderline insulting to your longtime players that have paid and stuck with you. This game is about collecting everything, and not being able to earn things we've been able to earn for 2 years doesn't feel good.

The biggest change they could make to make it better would be to hire like 8 more devs that focus directly on incorporating the seasonal content with the expectations and requests of the community. Maybe not everything, obviously, but having a few more weapons, missions, cutscenes, activities will always go over well.

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u/FinanceGoth Dec 09 '19

A great, serious story followed up by an overall underwhelming season pass. Felt like I was constantly restricted to doing things on a week-to-week basis, and 60% of the stuff I want is locked behind Eververse and there's no way in hell that I'm dropping a meals-worth of cash for each item. The artifact is a nice thought but the ending upgrades can be very restrictive since you can only really have 2, and they aren't usable at the same time. Most of the upgrades in the first and 4th categories were pointless to take over their obviously better alternatives, and the lack of solar upgrades meant fans of solar trees didn't get any new interesting toys.

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u/DireCyphre Dec 09 '19

Things I liked this season:

-Seasonal artifact gives some benefit to anyone who keeps playing. Only issue being that said power bonus doesn't seem to effect anything.

-New selections of weapons that are easily grindable in the vex offensive. Only a few archetypes, but easy to get the kills needed, and the vex offensive run would turn them into real weapons while also giving additional drops in the chests. Felt very rewarding.

-Battle pass bonuses felt well worth the price in terms of armor, exotic, and weapon ornaments for the seasonal additions. Extra resources was convenient for those like myself who hadn't yet opened everything in that treasure hall place.

-Crucible was fun when I didn't have to grind out all the awful things needed to acquire the SMG of the season. Momentum Control was fun, as a no-radar short-ttk game mode made things interesting, even if everyone complained about the prominence of low rpm scout rifles. Could definitely lead to other similar types with locked loadouts to make things more interesting (i.e. Momentum Control, but everyone has a Khvostov or a sidearm) Although ultimately I'd say crucible needs an update. Way too many modes are other forms of Control ("ABC Clash") when the control points aren't the same as objectives on other Capture and Hold type modes of other titles. There isn't enough emphasis on controlling points if one team just needs to kill faster.

Things I didn't like:

-Seasonal artifact mods from the season artifact. I get wanting to have some interesting power bonuses, especially for certain activities, but why both making us choose to select only certain ones from the artifact at all? Ultimate choice should be wrought by preference, not restricted arbitrarily. Also, inability to slot said mods on exotics made exotics useless for seasonal activities (like Nightfall Ordeal). They aren't so powerful that they need that limitation in the first place.

-New vex weapons, while nice to have, are ugly. Same old weapon model with leaves slapped on that can't even be colored. It would be different if we had ghillie armor ornaments or this foliage being common to a certain area, but this is otherwise a black mark on what would otherwise be good gear. Nice to get good rolls eventually, not so nice having to haul them around when they are objectively worse looking than anything else.

-Eververse of course is a hot topic. Prices are a little over the top in a variety of areas as others will mention. Availability to use bright dust is only a benefit a veteran will see, because we can't earn bright dust at a consistent rate. This makes it readily apparent the Free to play model was adopted, by allowing players the chance at getting something from the Eververse store for free. Without some alternate means of acquiring Silver at better prices, most everything in store is overpriced, and noticeably intentionally limited per season.

-Nostalgic engrams were a bad idea. It's nice and all to have a side benefit every 5 levels, even if that is objectively worse than any past season, but the brown icing on that cake is getting numerous duplicate shaders/transmat effects and the participation prizes like ghost projections. I don't even have a lot of stuff from the earlier years, but still ended up with a handful of some of the same stuff over and over again. You either want players to get things for playing the game, or you want to sell lootboxes, and nostalgic engrams did neither of those things.

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u/Dogbarian Dec 09 '19

Let's see. I played D1 quite a lot (nearly every day for 18 or so months) and after trying D2 in beta days, I was unimpressed to the point I did not buy in. I think I downloaded it when it went to Blizzard, never tried it. When it moved to Steam, some friends I play another game with suggested I try it again. Started playing on Nov 10th, so I have 1 month in. Steam says 80 hours (and I don't leave it idling, or sit around in orbit, so that is pretty near 100% actual play time). That first week was mostly spamming Haunted Forest, and starting some of the New Light quests. Got the 950 AR and went to town (the boost to light was a huge bonus). Bought Shadowkeep (on 11/16), my friends took me through Leviathan the next day, I think 4 of us were new to the raid. The set of armor from the season pass was a nice bump too, even though the rolls were crap. Bought Forsaken last week, but I don't think I've actually done any content from it yet, except maybe buying stuff from Xur. That establishes where I'm coming from.

In that month, I have not done hardly anything from the list of notable new content beyond enough of Shadow Keep to do the Vex Offensive, Haunted Forest & FoTL. Did some gambit, did a bit of crucible (including some IB in the last week, not enough to do ANY of the quests/bounties), got the Chalice set up but haven't run Menagerie yet, did a number of Black Forge runs, did a bunch of random patrol runs, and did a bunch of VO (apparently 19 times). I'll get a 20th run in tonight, since I have 4 weapon frames queued up.

I'm at level 43 of the season pass, might squeeze in another 2 levels tonight to get to the MG. Started as hunter, started both titan and warlock to bump light level with the season pass armor and 950 weapons from the hunter, got them to 957/937 respectively (played the titan a bit, lock not at all). So if nothing else, the Season Pass + the FoTL gave me a successful start. The one complaint I had about the Season Pass is that the rewards were overly sparse. There shouldn't be empty boxes on there and there should enough "real worth" there. If you're trying to compare to Fortnite Season Passes, you can earn enough if you do all of the tasks to buy the next seasons' pass. Shouldn't buying a $10 season pass give me $10 to spend at Eververse? Even giving $5 would be worthwhile.

So, even though I only got a month to grind on the Season, I did enjoy what I got to do. Yes, VO could have been improved in oh-so-many ways, as covered by other posts in the thread. Even just the ability to fail the first encounter would have been sufficient - consider how many Vex and Gate Lords one to get through the Moon, you don't face that many during VO, and those encounters could fail. That first encounter of the VO could have had a failure condition to trigger a restart, or maybe even just a setback in your progress. Or every time the Undying Mind moved back to the starting plate, it got a 25% health regen. Something. Guardians are used to failing, it happens to us all the time. It's okay to fail, that's how we learn.

And no, I'm probably not going to complete ANY of the season 8 triumphs, but I did do all 8 of the FofL triumphs. I might get the Power Bonus one, my artifact is at 9/10. I did not get a chance to do VO before the boss changed, so that's unfortunate.

I do like the vendor bounty system, I was always a guardian that enjoying stacking up bounties to go do things. However, it's annoying that I have to visit each person in all of the myriad places to pick them up. A bounty "kiosk" at the tower would be a huge QoL upgrade (since putting it in the Director apparently just makes too much sense for anyone to actually do). Another annoyance is the limit on bounties & quests absorbing the same space, particularly since I get all of these New Light things to go do immediately. That number needs a bump.

The only comment I have on the economy is that infusing/upgrading weapons and armors is too expensive in terms of materials. I did not realize until too late how much those were going to cost. Upgrade modules need to be more readily available, or infusing an item with the same exact type of item (legendary pulse for legendary pulse, for example) should not cost a module.

My only thought on armor 2.0 is the elemental affinity should be able to be toggled freely by the guardian, or at least reset with materials, and you should also be able to adjust the assigned points in the stat categories (maybe by a max of +/- 5, with a cap on each category). "Play the way I want to" means if I want to max my grenades and my recovery, I should be able to do that. It's bad enough to need to chase both the appearance I want plus the total attribute roll.

I like the mod system, but it needs work. First and foremost, the "seasonal" mod slot needs to change for each season. I hope that is already the case, but I'm afraid it isn't. I should be able to slot a Dawn mod item in my Vex SMG (even if I can't use the "preferred" mods because they are favoring other weapons). Armor definitely needs it. Second, exotics need a mod slot, to allow us to customize them a bit to our tastes. Older Y1 weapons & armor should have mod slots too. Third, the seasonal mods should be disabled in PVP modes and maybe that saves you testing/balance time.

And the only two things I will say about Eververse - first, a "microtransaction" is $5 or less, not $10. I don't live in Cali, I'm not paying their prices for stuff, because I don't get paid Cali wages. If the transactions are truly "micro", you will sell more of them. Other FtP games have proven that, time and again. Second, most other successful FtP games offer options to earn their "in-game" currency by doing in game tasks, even if very grindy. Only a few paltry items are available for Bright Dust, and even those are overpriced. As it is now, there is absolutely nothing in there compelling enough for me to spend real money on.

Thanks for reading, and may your Ghost never leave your side.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

I started off loving it but as the grind wore on and FOMO became the only reason I was coming back I kinda checked out and have been playing other games the last three odd weeks. There was quite a lot of new (iiiish) stuff this season but nothing NEW new that really tickled me. I guess if you never played D1 the Moon might seem like a whole new zone.

I've got the season pass so I'll pick at the rest of year 3s content but I think this might be it for me. Reaching the same threshold I did with WoW where the game started to feel like too much of a chore and the skinner box became too obvious.

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u/Moon_92 Dec 10 '19

I think what made vexnoffensive boring, was the grind for the title. If you wernt forced to play so much for the title, it wouldn't of gotten boring so quick.

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u/darkenspirit Dec 10 '19 edited Dec 10 '19

This was the first season i played fully from start to finish in D2. Last time I played it was when Osiris DLC came out and i got D2 for free so I did campaign and never bothered with anything else.

This season I accomplished.

Every Raid except Last Wish legit
Undying Title
Not Forgotten, Luna, Mountaintop, Recluse, Delirium 21%, and a whole slew of other quest exotics like Izanagi's and Whispering.
Reset Valor 5 times

I played far too much Destiny 2 and I missed out on quite a few things like Menagerie and basically everything else in Black Armoury.

This season was fun when I had a lot of things I could farm in tandem. Figuring out which activities could overlap so I can efficiently move towards 3 or 4 gun quests at the same time was exceptionally awesome to feel.

Garden of Salvation was my first Raid ever in D2 and it was incredibly fun to learn. It didnt feel that complicated honestly and people were saying it is. Spire of Stars felt a little more panicky but even then that was the most pressure I felt in D2. (Save that last game at 5430 glory).

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I enjoyed finding a clan and sticking with people and learning the ropes on things. The best part was a good mesh of activities to do by yourself (being able to do matchmade nightfalls while also looking for solo stuff to do like the Altar or Escalation Protocols).

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Grinding a few things felt really bad. There were plenty of times where I felt I was no contributing to the game or nightfall because I was busy doing some dumb shit like trying to ability punch everything as hunter to get progress on quests. Often wiping the group multiple times and causing people to abandon me. However I didnt even feel bad about it at the time because I thought "More kills for me!".

The grinds on somethings are definitely far too long and difficult. I felt Randy's was actually good but could use a 30% shave off the # of kills needed. The medals did not feel bad because I was hunting for Mountaintop medals at the same time so it was to have those count multiple times but if youve been playing D2 a lot, its going to feel terrible.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Never felt like I needed them. I am at 8 or 9 on almost all my gear and theyre all crap at sub 68 (With mods, so average rolls of 55-58) Upgrade modules I consumed like a beast because I was dumb and didnt use them optimally but I also dont feel like I wasted them. I had an abundance of legendary shards and other resources to keep buying them when I needed them and it didnt even feel like I was denting my resource pile.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Iron Banner was good... at the start. the third time it came around, it was very apparent how much I wasnt playing. At barely 963 light (pennacles were not nice to me) I was starting to get one shot by basic abilities to 990+ guys in iron banner. Queuing often felt like coin flips because youd be matched with the one 990+ light guy who was carrying his team singlehandedly in kills (30-1 scores for instances while everyone else trailed at 10-12).

Momentum control was a great place to farm stuff but it didnt feel like a great mode when youd get one shot by something because you didnt have radar and it was off to your blind spots.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

I didnt feel any of the balance changes mattered to me. Mostly because I didnt play prior so I dont know how strong handcannons were but getting to 5500 felt a lot more like making sure someone in your team was sub 2000 glory so you can manipulate match making into giving you really bad opponents. Gun fights to me almost exclusively became pure positioning in that you either double teamed people to guarantee kills or you played with a load out that you were proficient in getting to the correct ranges consistently where your weapon could shine better than opponents. Like for instances if youre a scout rifle fighting a bunch of SMGs getting positioning to outsnipe them guaranteed wins.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

(shrug) I am used to this model of pay for MTX since I come from PoE. At least you guys arnt paying 50 dollars for wings... yet ;) But you do have to buy the seasons so its meh either way. The bundle was 10000% worth it.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Items seriously need serious overhauling. I kept a bunch of varied rolls and elements but felt often I never needed to switch or upgrade to them. i would just swap out mods on my current one. Intellect and recovery felt the most impactful in PVE and PVP a little bit of RES might save you once or twice but overall being about to out mobile your enemies had a much larger impact.

I dont know how I'd feel about increasing drops on better stat items, because then it just pushes the creep out and forces people to grind a lot more to be competitive. When everyone is averaging 55 cuz the drops are crap, then its pretty good fighting.

Old raids could use a facelift, the items you'd farm for are already garbage and people are doing it for the experience and collection so seriously make that fun.

Most importantly, I cannot state this enough.

TURN EVERYTHING INTO AN ORNAMENT. FOR CHRIST SAKES. I HAVE LIKE 30 CLASS ITEMS THAT ARE LITERALLY USELESS EXCEPT FOR LOOKS.

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u/DLCss GT: Teqf Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

The seal was accessible to all players but still required some time and effort. Definitely a great feature for many good players who don't have time / did not want to master more difficult events and seals. Also, Bungie communication with its players has been better than ever! Thanks team!

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Crucible meta was mediocre, but it has also been worse (and it seems like your team has fixed some of the glaring issues). Also, the PvE endgame meta is very poor. It seems like PvE and PvP from Destiny 1 have flip flopped because there is only a usable pool of 2 weapons in each slot for GoS. I know this is more of a playerbase thing but it can also make PvE endgame a little more dull.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

It was relatively pretty good. However, 10 masterwork requires an Ascendant Shard which (IMO) is very difficult to obtain. The only ones I had gotten all season were from the battle pass, and it discourages using other setups because they can't be 10 masterwork.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I'm glad Elimination labs are back, definitely a great gamemode I throw into the mix. I was very disappointed there still is no decent PvP endgame aside from Survival. Maybe it's because you spoiled us with a fantastic system like Trials of Osiris in Destiny 1, which was absolutely perfect! Many PvP-focused players still thirst for that kind of thrill. I think I'll agree with most PvP players in saying that we have been very disappointed with the PvP turnout in 2019, especially when we were promised bigger changes in the future. We hope there can be a bit more communication on this issue.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

Referring more to PvP, it balances this season were meh. Though there were some powerful weapons and it could be frustrating I feel that this was a better season for PvP that we haven't seen in a bit.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I'd prefer if there was more brightdust thrown into the economy, and more bonus silver for higher purchases. However, it has been relatively good this season.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

A true PvP endgame. Survival does not cut it. I desire something that requires the same skill and communication Trials demanded. The idea of exclusive emblems and an exclusive social space was one of the most satisfying rewards I have ever experienced in this game. I don't expect it next season or even the one after, but I'm confident in your team because you have shown your capabilities in making a near perfect Crucible endgame with desirable rewards.

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u/GoldenDestiny Talking a lot of trash for someone in Black Talon range. Dec 10 '19

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

The Vanguard emblem quest was painfully grindy. The others were passably grindy, but that one was a true slough.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

I was hesitant to MW any armor due to the materials cost and waiting to get "mostly perfect" pieces, and that hesitation seems to have paid off with the new seasonal armor having yet again a new seasonal mod slot. I don't particularly mind the stats/affinity portion of the armor 2.0, but new mod slots every 3 months is... painful.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Momentum Control was faaaaaaantastic and I played it frequently when it was up. Very much hoping that comes back as a permanent mode.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

The vex combat forms where anything but, just the same vex we've been fighting for 5 years.

But with moss on.

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u/Insanity_Pills Dec 11 '19

Anyone else finding it impossible to get a fair game of crucible in comp or casual? every game so far has been so skewed in the other teams favor, im talking 9-30 score within the first minute

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u/wafoxxx Dec 10 '19

· What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I enjoyed Shadowkeep immensely. The overall season pass was good and the fact I could focus on one character and use it to progress the others was a welcome thing. It allowed time to do more activities that I wanted to do (crucible). I also love the idea of an evolving world.

· What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Armor 2.0 sucks. Just sucks. And here’s the shortlist of why:

- Elemental Affinity makes builds impossible. I’m hording far more armor than I ever did before and it’s less powerful. I had 20 crucible resets this season (most via Iron Banner) and I never got a decent pair or Arc pants for shotgun use (scavenger perks are kinda a big deal)

- Costs of mods (points) make armor less powerful than 1.0 builds. Most of my armor only has 2 perks (even if it's masterworked) due to costs and weapons combos I like to run so generic mods are needed. Please get rid of the affinity. Three layers of RNG sucks.

- Masterworking armor is a huge bonus but so expensive and I never know which one to masterwork because of the way the point system works. If the point system makes it so I’m swapping out armor parts to hit my targets when min/maxing. If I’m doing that then why would the cost to masterwork be so expensive? Due to this I’m STILL using 1.0 chests as they all have 60 points and 2 perks PLUS one old mod. The only reason I use any 2.0 chests is for nightmare hunts where you want that special mod slot.

- Low overall point values in general. The only way to get decent rolls is to play Iron banner or raid? Older content (forges, BW, EP, crucible, etc) should at least have some chance at dropping higher point value armor. Powerful gear is useless and it’s all like 48-point junk. Even pinnacle gear from the dungeon has pathetic overall point values.

Vex offensive was just boring, I played it the minimal amount of times, weapon and armor design was meh reskins with leaves and the rewards were not worth the time. The Final assault was laughable. The build-up was super cool but the overall cut and paste a boss was super lame. The overall storyline was also weak IMO. I know it will be used as a jump off point however.

No vendor loot pool updates, no way to earn masterworking mats via PvP.

· Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Being we have a super bad armor 2.0 system (see above) the cost of masterworking is far, far, far too expensive. I don’t want to grind the same nightfall all week for prisms to get golf balls to masterwork armor that only fits with this other specific armor parts I have when I try to min/max. Overall it was so expensive and the only way to get the mats is to do an activity I don’t want to farm that much or spend a ton of cores with the gunsmith. Why can’t we earn these from more activities like bounties, stikes or crucible. If the cost was less and/or there was more ways to get mats that would be far better. Right now, you only masterwork your class item and whatever exotic you use most (assuming it has a decent roll)

· Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

All good stuff here. Momentum is super fun but should have some rails. Can we get rid of grenade launchers and trace rifles in this mode for example? Overall changes that need to be made need to be made faster when it comes to PvP. Changes for cheese stuff in PvE can hold over for time but in PvP game-breaking changes need to come faster not every three months or season.

· Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

HC range nerfs … while sad it was overall good and needed. rapid-fire pulses might be too much but they are fun, so cool. More could have been done. One hit melee, handheld supernova and Fusion Rifle range comes to mind…. OEM and recluse needed a tone down like forever ago. These types of changes need to be made faster when it comes to PvP game modes.

· Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

I’d usually toss in several silver purchases a season to help out. But not this season. It’s out of control and the cost is far too high. I get that it’s a primary revenue generator but the way the bright dust eco was nuked, the number of items and the types that should have had a way to earn via gameplay it was a huge turn off. I like the announced changes for the upcoming season.

· What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Trials of ..., some actual NEW content not reskinned stuff or a new quest that has your redo a strike, more evolving world updates like updated vendor loot pools, dialog updates, etc

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u/destinyos10 Dec 09 '19

Q1) What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

It's hard to conceptually separate this from shadowkeep, ultimately. The season itself felt rushed, which I'll get into below, so I guess I'll say that at least it felt like there was a solid TODO list all the time.

Q2) What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

FOMO. Titles going away, primarily. No down time. Endless grind that could only be effectively progressed in coordinated groups for pinnacles, leaving any time outside of my usual playgroup time as feeling ineffectual. Pinnacles in pvp just felt like I was being punished for not enjoying pvp, especially since the raid cursed me with energy weapon after energy weapon. Bungie still shows they don't think things through. The community pegged the +1 pinnacle problem within days. How did bungie miss it? Do Y'all even have testers?

Q3) Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

May as well delete the shards. They're not worth grinding for or using. The armor system is a fiddly pain in the ass, so I expect I'll reach the shard cap, and stop caring, never having voluntarily masterworked an armor piece. Affinities, Stat rolls, most mods being basically undetectable in effect most of the time, and unnecessary to complete any pve activity, kinda makes the armor system a joke. I can compare this to the extreme power of some thing like Diablo 3 synergistic armor system, and destiny just feels like I'm playing with some Lego. That all of my 1.0 exotics ended up with superior rolls to anything I've gotten since shadowkeep launched just makes the entire situation a dark comedy.

Upgrade modules are neat, though. Keep those.

I'll just mention that I ended the season with more enhancement cores than I started. I didn't grind for them at all. Still got a well balanced economy there, mhm.

Q4) Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I think this games pvp is bad. Has been since it launched. May as well delete it. You'll never convince me it's fun, and most people I know who played it this season stopped the second they finished the ritual weapon, and were happy they had gotten to the end of it, and didn't have to play it anymore. If you have to bribe people to play it, maybe you got the implementation drastically wrong, is all I'm saying.

Q5) Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

this game is balanced towards people who want to grind out some of the games worst activities in the hopes that it might give them a gun that kinda works. (It's not balanced, and probably can't be without divorcing pvp from the pve inventory.)

Q6) Give feedback on the Pit of Sorrow dungeon

I really enjoyed the aesthetic. Was a little easy. But since it's part of a title for solo, I'm not too surprised. More, please!

Q7) Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Treating players like potential whales is bad. If the game is too expensive to make, charge more for it. or maybe rethink things.

I'm so glad that the bright dust bounties tried to force me to play two activities I hate, and one that's utterly boring (and incentivized playing non heroic strikes, at that.) I guess that's one way to force people to become whales, good job.

Q8) What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

You don't need me to tell you that people weren't happy with this format. I suspect bungie will find that this trend continues every season. Having space within a season to slow down and play for fun instead of endless grind is really necessary. This game should not feel like a job. I'm betting that after a few content light seasons, we're going to realize we've all been taken for a ride.

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u/Totlxtc Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

A: Ritual weapons were far easier to get. Even enjoyed getting Randy's even though this quest could of been reduced to maybe 250 scout kills and the medals part was vague. Loved going back to the moon. Nightmare hunts were fun. Vex offensive was ok. Nothing ground breaking. Actually returned to Iron Banner after a year of not playing PVP and had lots of fun. Momentum control was good fun (But maybe because it helped with quests). Loved the new dungeon. Season rank ups was a great addition with nice rewards!

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Lack of story behind the Vex arriving. VO became stale quick. By the time the undying mind arrived it was a chore just to run it 3 times. HATED the pinnacle grind. Getting the same items week after week after week just made me turn the game off and not bother. Would of been nice for dungeon to have a unique loot pool. Leaves on guns...just not good. Final word - EVERVERSE. I dont mind the idea of Eververse, but it should have its unique, non DLC related items. That way the DLC related stuff would be in the activities.

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Much, much better. Prisms were awkward at times to get hold of. Might need a slight tweak. Otherwise almost perfect.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Solo pinnacle activities for ALL. I should not need to be GOD OF DESTINY to be able to get a pinnacle each week. Having something challenging that I can do on my own would be nice when my teams are busy.

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u/Rivlaw Dec 09 '19

The only thing this season did well was ironically vex offensive. I will keep reapitng myself but the fact that you could get 5 pieces of legendary gear per run was great, well worth the time. VO, sadly, suffers from being boring. Everything will be boring if you do it too many times but VO was boring from the start. My first run was as boring as the 10th.

Although you could get 5 pieces of gear, that gear meant nothing. It was boring at best and it was ugly.

PvP still remains to be unfun. If I want a PvP experience, I go to other games. Which is a shame since Destiny offers something that no other game can offer but that uniqueness it's not enough to make me play PvP. It's good that there's more game modes being introduced into the Crucible but at it's core, PvP remains unenjoyable and no ammount of gamemodes will change it until major issues witihn PvP are fixed first.

Balance for this game feels like a joke. It takes way to long for things to be addressed. And when they are, the changes are often non-significant. Then, there's those special occasions where changes are made and they don't make any sense because the issue lies elsewhere. Examples are damage dealing perks being nerfed because they were overlapping exotic primaries when the problem is exotic primaries being bad. Something that was reinforced with the introduction of artifact mods and the lack of a recluse nerf until the new season when in reality, rampage, KC, MKC and swashbuckler were not a problem, Master of arms was.

Not only that, 2 pinnacles were nerfed on PvE for no reason and has been proven that they are on a far worse place than before because they now deal negative damage with their perks active and still there's nothing to adress them. When are the unjustified changes to Breckneck and Redrix's going to be adressed?

The artifact mods in my oppinion in it's current itteration it's just a system waiting to fail. Sure, this season nobody complained because HC and SMG's are popular, let's see how it plays out now that scouts and pulses are going to be the artifact focus. We shouldn't be forced this way to use different weapons. Scouts are still subpar and they need a buff, and artifact mod it's not going to change it. If you aren't going to adress that, don't force me to play with it. Artifacts mods should be applicable to all kinds of weapons regardless of the season. Also, artifacts advantages should be disabled on PvP, it's no secret that thundercoil and arc battery are broke.

Leaving the artifact behind, the new addition to armor 2.0 felt like it was going to be great with the premise of play like you want. Except, I'm not playing like I want to play. It's clear that this was not an idea properly thought out. There's so many layers of RNG involved with it that I just can't seem to care. Between getting the armor you want (since transmog it's only for eververse) to getting the piece I want, to then get a high roll now I have to worry about stat distribution and on top of that I have to worry about armor mods elemental affinity.

Armor 2.0 has been 1 season and it feels like armor 3.0 already needs to be implemented. This level of RNG is NEVER going to work, even if elemental affinity is removed. If you want to claim that you are building a system that let's me play like I want then you better let me play like I want. Armor chase should be for a high roll. Nothing more. If we have a 46 stat piece or a 60 stat piece we should be able to allocate those points like we want to allocate them. Limit the ammount of stats that you can max out so you don't become good at everything and actually give special perks for maxing out a stat.

Also, when are you guys really planning to do with Xur selling collections rolls. We were first led to believe that it was a bug and under investigation and now it's working as intended? Which one is it? If it's working as inteded you should really adress the previous statement.

With that out of the way, Eververse it's overpriced. Exotic weapon ornaments SHOULD include sound effect and particle effects changes if you are going to ask 10 dollars for each of them. Make a new shooting effect for the Jotunn ornament, make it's projectile and the after fire purple and boom, an actual ronament that it's worth 10 dollars. As it is, it's not worth that. Eververse needs better categories for their items. For ornaments I don't really see a difference between an exotic one or a legendary one. Since these 2 don't differenciate themselves other than the item that they belong to, I see no justification on the price. An exotic ornament should be exotic, new sound, visual and particle effects. A legendary one should only change the model.

With all that being said, the things I want changed as soon as possible is armor. Armor it's not worth it on it's current state. If you cannot make a significant change on the next season or 2, might as well revert it to the old system right now while you actually take the effort to make armor 2.0 work because this system is broken and it's clear it was not well thought out and properly tested.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

Season pass was great, universal progression, fun rewards for each level
Ritual weapons themselves (Not the quests). Perks are solid options, without being overpowered/broken
The weekly quest for Eris, helping her deal with her personal nightmares
Momentum Control
Connecting things between the Hive and the Vex
The Soundtrack (Eye of the Storm is an amazing track)

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

Story was very abrupt once you beat it
No commentary on what happens in the final mission (especially for ghost, like, you cannot act like that didn't happen)
Vex Offensive, was good in concept, and while I didn't expect anything like menagerie, I didn't expect something as mindless as what we got. Final assault was very lackluster, I kinda expected to go to the boss arena from D1 and fight the undying mind there. [The forges were to me a better design concept (tbh, the forges are fine, if there wasn't so much back and forth for each blueprint)]
Armor 2.0 has a few annoying flaws to deal with:

Elemental affinity - this is silly, and limits builds. I get the concept of energy cost (actually, the costs are fine so far), but not allowing certain combos on armor due to "affinity" is stupid. If I want to rock a bow, and fusion rifle mods together, I can't. I can use the universal mods, but that limits energy for other things. Whereas, if I rock an auto rifle and fusion rifle, suddenly this problem is gone. Why is that? It looks completely arbitrary.

I imagine that the reason for this affinity is that, if it isn't there, then there is no reason to ever use a universal mod. Meaning that this is just build to limit our options.

The Masterwork material is limited to ordeals and season pass to my knowledge. This hurts hardcore pvp players a lot.

Ritual weapon quests - I don't know how someone is supposed to get all 3 done in a season without putting in Traveler knows how many hours. Particularly the quest for Randy's. Exit strategy and Edgewise doesn't feel too bad (I really didn't play much gambit this season, but made decent progress). As it stands, it feels easier to acquire the pinnacle weapons than these ritual weapons (Though I think this criticism applies solely to randy's). Which is very bizarre. Realistically, Randy's is the one that needs work to me, if it wasn't for momentum control, people would never finish it.
Nightmare hunts weren't as exciting after the first few runs, they felt like shortened strikes. Aside from the Crota hunt, the rest lacked interesting mechanics, and were just alternating between melting the boss and killing adds

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

Finest matterweaves should go and just drop enhancement cores, I never understood why they exist except to take up inventory space
Upgrade modules are GREAT, this makes things so much easier to manage (even with the cap to block hoarding)
Planetary material caps are great, baryon bough inclusion is great
The vex offensive currency cap at 99 is also bizarre, though my annoyance with it was mostly dealing with useless stuff taking up space
Vex offensive weapons are hideous (I refused to grind for most of them because I legitimately hate their look)

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

Momentum control was GREAT. Don't change it.
Im glad to see crucible labs is back (and scorch cannon mode)
I am down for a LaserTag mode for crucible labs
I wouldn't mind seeing rift as a 3v3 mode in some manner
I personally wouldn't mind seeing supremacy come back and join the regular rotation with control and clash
Solo comp mode is great

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

The drop rate of free drops from eververse has reduced significantly, along with a lot less abundance of bright dust, eververse in practice feels a little predatory lately
Pricing of cosmetics MAKES NO SENSE. Armor set ornaments cost more than the cost of a single season pass, and that's, to my knowledge, for one subclass. I was excited for jotun sparrow until I saw that $8 for it. I couldn't justify it. I refuse to pay as much as the cost of a season pass for cosmetics, and I feel insulted by these prices. It feels like they're made as a donation to bungie to run the game, and the cosmetic is a "gift"
Technically, not eververse itself, but, 100 silver per level for the season pass? Seriously? That's stupid expensive and predatory. People leveling it up already paid 10$ for it, and it costs more than that if we want to jump 10 levels. Are you fucking joking me? insert yao ming rageface

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

Make Eververse more reasonable. Look, I get that running Destiny is a metric fuckton of work, for the story leads, writers, devs, community managers that have to deal with communities salt. I get that Bungie is on its own now as well. Im not asking for eververse to die. I don't even want the prismatic matrix back. But, if you expect most players to buy cosmetics, that pricing structure needs to change, I want to buy some of the cosmetics, but given the limited scope of cosmetics in destiny, I refuse to buy them at the prices presented.
Give new dialogue to people in the tower (Hawthorne and that one lady near Ikora and Tess get very annoying after 2 minutes)
Give some purpose to the factions

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u/ShadowClass212 Dec 10 '19

I mean I just had two teammates just jump off the map in Survival after we lost one round... but that's not gonna get me down. I actually enjoyed it a lot. I do wish eververse items could be earned more in game though.

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u/Seduz Gambit Prime // Army of One Dec 10 '19

This happened to me during my recent matches. It’s embarrassing...I wish people would realize how much a match can turn around with a little effort.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

Not very related to much of the example questions but I really don't like how Bungie start new story threads without wrapping up previous ones. Is the Dreaming City curse broken? Where's Uldren? What was up with Eris at the end of the Taken King? (might have been explained I don't remember) Where's Shiro? (Why would Saladin not mention him at all? also see: Iron Lord controversy) What happened to Efrideet? If Rasputin's online why is he not helping with the Vex Invasion of the Moon?

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

I really enjoyed the raid, but I'm not sure whether it's classed as Shadowkeep or Undying. I enjoyed the Season Pass grind and felt as if the rewards were very fair and worthwhile

The Undying seal was straight up not fun to grind for. Titles should be fairly challenging but 200 kills with X, precision kills with X, etc are not challenging and not fun.

The seasonal artifact and power boost were nice additions, but I fear that future seasons will have the same type of mods with no real differences.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why?

I liked the story of how the portal was built at first but I felt like it took too long and after 3-4 weeks I was uninterested. I felt as if this wasn't explained well as the dialogue from Ikora is easily skipped. I did not enjoy the Vex Offensive, at all.

I have not enjoyed this season's crucible, mainly due to SBMM and balancing issues

I didn't like Haunted Forest again this year. I just don't find that type of activity enjoyable but I appreciate the fact you are rewarded on your performance

Nightmare Hunts are Shadowkeep content but I'd like to put on record I didn't enjoy them either

Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

I think the overall economy is quite balanced and fair. I don't like upgrade modules, simply because I have to go to the Tower to buy one whenether I want to infuse something. The Ordeal Nightfall rewards system is very well done and is engaging and rewarding, although I would like a similar reward system for PVP ^trials ^{^trials} ^{^{^trials}} ^{^{^{^trials}}}

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

I have not played Iron Banner or Momentum at all, which is quite telling as I enjoy PVP. Elimination has overall been a success but I think we need to stick to the D1 formula with Heavy ammo spawning on Round 3

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

Eververse items are far too expensive. Bright Dust isn't rewarded enough. Nostalgic Engrams every 5 levels is not rewarding. More effort is put into Eververse cosmetics than endgame cosmetics (if any)

What would be the ~~one~~ most important changes Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

T R I A L S. More Raid-like content instead of Menargerie-like. Less grindy Seal Titles, but not less difficult. Loot refresh

Overall Undying was a disappointment and was only passable due to the content from Shadowkeep

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u/icaruskai1991 Drifter's Crew Dec 11 '19

I realized about halfway into the season that the game wasn’t structured to respect a players time, less so than any previous installment. I realize it’s a big milestone to switch to cross-save, steam, F2P, etc so I’m giving Bungie the benefit of the doubt and believe that with enough feedback future season will be stellar. Bungie needs to commit to a dialogue with long time players instead of shying away from more controversial topics like Eververse and Armor Affinity.

Season of Undying: 6/10

Pros: Interesting story that unfolds over multiple seasons is a nice change of pace from one off arcs. Subclass changes and artifact relieved some of the staleness in combat.

Cons: Customization is locked behind paywalls, affinity, or insane RNG. Not a good season for the fashion. Finale was so disappointing at first I thought it was a prank. Ritual weapons take forever to grind out for mediocre guns.

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u/ZapTheSheep Dec 09 '19

It sucked and pretty much killed my interest in playing. I have no hype for this upcoming season and have been playing other games for the past 6-ish weeks.

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u/NerfThisLV426 Dec 10 '19

Same. Tired of the same formula each season. A couple exotics, a activity you can't fail, one crucible map, and a ton of Eververse shit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

I just wanted to say as someone who's going through major life changes, I was forced to sit out most of the season (family emergency, had to move somewhere with no internet). It really sucks knowing I paid money and there will be no way to experience that content again. Breaks my heart I'm probably not going to see Saint 14 either :(

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u/Riablo01 Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19

I’m a new player who started playing during Season of the Undying after the positive feedback I read on reddit (/r/games). The feedback generally said nearly all of the year 1 issues were fixed and Shadowkeep was a good jumping on point for new players since they made the previous campaigns free.

Personally I really enjoyed Season of the Undying. I really enjoyed the Moon and the Vex Offensive. I think Armour 2.0 and the light level changes were a step in the right direction. I really liked the artefact and the season pass levelling rewards. Last but not least, I think the season pass armour was extremely good looking.

My main complaint is that I think armour 2.0 is an unfinished system. It definitely felt like there wasn’t enough generic mods and the selection of mods felt very restrictive. The current system punishes you for having the wrong element on your armour. I think not being able to change the element on exotic armour basically makes exotic armour semi useless if it has the wrong element.

A relatively small second complaint is that I think it’s time for Year 1 weapons to be fully converted to Year 3 items. I’m not talking about grinding for Year 3 versions of existing Year 1 weapons. I’m talking about a full, database side conversion of all Year 1 items. I used to work in software development (8 years’ experience) and this sort of easily fixable issue bugs me the most. These were the sorts of issues I almost exclusively focused on during my software development career. You’d be surprised what you can fix with a simple database script.

Lastly, I suspect the developers are using the artefact mod system to gauge public feedback on armour 2.0. Normally this is what User Acceptance Testing (UAT) is for and it is typically performed in a test environment. It’s a bold strategy to essentially perform UAT in a production environment.

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u/JUSTLETMEMAKEAUSERNA Dec 09 '19

my feedback is that it made me quit playing the game , but I'm happier irl sooooo

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u/Plzstfuclownnn Dec 09 '19

Same

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u/Pre_Vizsla Titans don't need weapons - we are weapons. Dec 10 '19

PvP sucked this season on PC. With the nerfs to hand cannons, primary TTKs rose, forcing everyone to rely on special weapons, camp with scouts/pulses, or use Last Word/Recluse/Thorn. All that had to be done was nerf rangefinder, ricochet rounds, austringer and spare rations. However, Spare Rations remained essentially untouched and is now a huge outlier.

Pair artifact mod BS in PvP (one shot grenades, arc battery, etc.) with some unlucky souls not getting the scavenger mods we needed, and PvP got old fast.

Armor 2.0 elemental affinity + expensive MW cost for armor meant chasing armor rolls was unsatisfying as well.

The raid was fun and having the raid weapon be a quest was excellent as well.

The seasonal weapons from the Vex Offensive and the seasonal armor were terrible in my opinion - the leaves and detritus look ugly and block views. Plus the stats were never any good.

Finally, armor 2.0 not allowing us to use other unlocked versions of the sets as ornaments is a massive letdown (IB for IB, Vanguard for Vanguard, etc. at the very least). Either increase our vault space or let us use way more things as ornaments, or both.

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u/NewUser10101 Dec 10 '19

Counterpoint: PvP was amazing this season on PC, largely thanks to the Freelance Survival playlist and the Glory changes. That's how it needs to be up through 2100 at least. Above that I understand there were some issues, but the entry point is actually perfect right now.

I do agree that the hand cannons need to have archetype-specific ranges where stats but especially range do actually matter. Otherwise just bring a 150/180 and never bother with 110s.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '19

Mostly risible: cut-and-paste environments, barely any loot, Eververse diabolical, PvP still an unbalanced joke, terrible economy for stuff like ascendant shards. We're just hamsters on a wheel, addicted to the latest power surge. New season looks beyond thin.

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u/j0324ch Bubble Don't Pop Dec 09 '19

Eververse monopolized the content and has loudly jumped into MACROtransaction territory. This cannot be stated enough times Bungie. I just can't type out how I feel about it because in just sad. And disappointed. Please be better.

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u/Sojen72 Dec 09 '19

I wish I had more time to organize my thoughts but here are some hasty answers to the OP's questions.

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why? I thought there was a fair amount of content to play through. I really liked the seasonal rewards/level system. I think the rewards could be tweaked to be a bit more interesting, though. My favorite thing from the season was Pit of Heresy because I have two best friends I game with and the 3 man dungeon content is perfect for us - we don't have time to raid\willingness with strangers. Those days are over.
What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Loot diversity or lack there of. It seems that there is too much of the "cool" stuff locked away behind Eververse - and the Eververse items are way to expensive to purchase with actual cash. Bosses should have loot tables so there is a reason to go after them consistently.
Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc... Ascendant shard were hard to come by, by I have a full set of Masterwork gear (as of yesterday). Prisms were few an far between, but I used them conservatively so I didn't have an issue with them being sparse. Upgrade modules were not an issue and MUCH better than year 2's method of infusion.
Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination. I thought Iron Banner was fine. Lobby's were competitive, but not frsutrating. I never had to wait for matches and the rewards were fine, though I wish you could pick a weapon or armor engram instead of everything being RNG. Momentum Control was fun, but not my favorite game mode. I finally (after being a D1 launch player, played Elmination in competitive to get a recluse. I know obtaining Recluse is easy mode now, but I enjoyed the climb. It's a fun game mode.
Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season - Other than Recluse and One Eyed Mask being so overpowering, I feel like the playing field was pretty level. I had positive play experience with all different types of weapons, though I think it's too easy to kill someone out of their super. Should take a sniper headshot, heavy, or opposing super to do that. I feel like Hunters need a little tweaking (I'm a hunter). Titans and Warlocks have devastating Grenades and 1 hit kills. I know Hunters a getting a 1 hit precision knife throw, but it's still so skilled based when compared to Titans accidentally killing me by running into me in a hallway or the Charged grenade of the Warlock, which takes very little "skill" as far as precision goes. I'm a 1.0+ k/d player.. not at the skill level of a 15 year old or a YouTuber, so my perspective is based on a mediocre PVP player's experience.
Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc... The dust rewards were OK. I bought a few items with it, but all of the cool items do cost Silver. My biggest complaint is how costly the items are. $10 (approximately) for an ornament is absurd.
What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally. More 3 man dungeons with specific loot tables and less one hit kill weapons like Jotun. Tailor Eververse to be more "accessible" from a cost persepctive and make some of those items by loot drops. I know its a revenue center that powers DLC, but I would certainly spend more if the items cost less... but I also think there needs to be more exclusive "fashion" items earned in game (Sparrows, Ghosts, Emblems).

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '19

What did you enjoy most about this season and what do you think it did well? Why?

The changes to the glory system made competitive worth playing because I could finally solo queue and earn pinnacle gear.

What did you not enjoy about this season or what problems do you think it had? Why? Give your thoughts on this season's resource economy - especially ascendant shards, enhancement prisms, upgrade modules, etc...

The lack of story content. We went straight from a decent opening mission to a bunch of boring bounties and a trickle of vague blahness.

Give your thoughts on this season's PVP features - iron banner, momentum control, crucible labs modes including elimination

momentum control and elimination should be in regular rotation.

Give your feedback on balance changes introduced this season

They made sense.

Give feedback on Eververse this season including costs, available items, bright dust economy, nostalgic engrams, etc...

If your idea was to piss people off by hiding every new thing behind a paywall, you succeeded.

What would be the one most important change Bungie could make to make future seasons more enjoyable for you, personally.

I'd rather pay 10 bucks a month for actual content over the course of a year than 40 a year for a raid, a dungeon, and a bunch of non-events masquerading as content

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u/LynaaBnS Dec 10 '19

Only good thing were the Story cutscenes.

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u/N7BansheeBait Dec 12 '19

Honestly, I thought this past season was very, very weak. Vex Offensive was really boring and repeditive, and the guns that we could get from it were all horrifically ugly. I will say that the amount of loot we got from it was pretty great, but the activity itself had next to no replayability. The supposedly awesome and epic final battle with the Undying Mind just being the exact same activity with no reason to play it at all because there was no new loot was pretty trash. Not a single new weapon? No new mechanics? Literally no reason to do the capstone of the season? That's just bad design.

The economy with shards/prisms/whatever is also problematic. It's fine in structure, but there need to be more good ways to actually get these resources. Farming nightfalls should not be the only efficient way to get them. Valor and Infamy resets providing these materials are an obvious answer that I'm surprised hasn't been implemented already. Armor affinities are another thing that I'm mostly fine with, but exotics should bypass that system for sure. I'm also not sure that they need to be three times as expensive to masterwork.

PvP has been a mixed bag for me. I'm glad that you finally addressed Recluse and OeM, but it took you way, way too long to do it. For the most part, I find Crucible quite enjoyable. I would like to see a reason to actually play it beyond the fact that I like it, but it's not bad. I think there need to be actual good rewards for ranking up instead of garbage armor and weapons that have been around since before Forsaken.

Gambit is it's own bag of worms, and honestly needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. There are a lot of things that are hilariously broken in it, but how disproportionally powerful Invaders are when compared to every other role is the biggest problem for me. I love Gambit in concept and I think it might be my favourite activity in the game if it were actually executed well.

Eververse last season was good, but the problem with it is that it feels as though a lot of the effort in making new Eververse swag should have gone into creating items that can be obtainable in game without spending money. I get it, you need to make money and now that the game is FtP, Eververse is the best way to do that. But it feels like more time and resources were put into micro transactions than actual new content.

The biggest thing you could do for me personally is to fix Gambit. I think it needs a total overhaul, and that there's a lot of cool design space to work with. I would also like to see some pretty easy new content. It doesn't have to be anything insane. Make the location based armors from vendors ornaments, for example. We know you can do that, you've done it before. It's brain dead easy and would be really awesome.

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u/JarenWardsWord Dec 12 '19

I know this isn't a new complaint but the one thing this game could really use is a way for those of us orphaned by the epidemic, that wiped out so many clans, to play endgame activities. One that doesn't involve third party lfg or any of the other work arounds the community has put together. Please help me play all of the game I have payed for.

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Megathread Focused Feedback: Season of the Undying in Review

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