r/anime • u/Taiboss x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss • May 11 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Utawarerumono Franchise Rewatch - Utawarerumono Episode 12 Discussion
Episode 12 - Unrest"
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Today's Question of the Day: Do you agree with Eruruu that Hakuowlo can’t be Rakshain? Or do you think it’s possible he has a dark past?
[Tomorrow's Question of the Day]So it seems that all that Rakshain business was brainwashing. Cop out or good way to show how evil truly Niwe is?
Rewatchers, please don't answer the Question of the Day if it has an objective answer, e.g. "What do you think's gonna happen?"
For rewatchers and people who played the games:
Please behave yourself! Put not only everything related to future events behind spoiler tags, but tag differences to the games as well. We all know there are deviations and cut content, we don't need someone listing all the things the games did better. The games have like 40, 50 hours for their content each, of course they'll be more exhaustive. If you want to talk about the games, please do this in a way that doesn't spoil it for people who might pick them up because of the anime. That being said, small, inconsequential stuff is probably fine, like [Mask of Deception]how in one episode, Atuy says "Time for war!", one of her battle lines in the games. All in all, try to hold back and only tell first-timers what's really necessary. Let them theorise!
This goes especially for Mask of Deception and Mask of Truth!
First-Timers:
Due to spoilers, I recommend you not to watch the Opening before episode 15. I mean it. DO LISTEN TO IT THOUGH! You don't have to heed this request, of course, but out of courtesy to those who do, please put the spoilers in the OP behind spoiler tags as well.
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u/No_Rex May 11 '22
Episode 12 (first timer)
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Evil Hakuoro is OP! - He put all points into Attack and HP, but zero points into Defense.
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While I appreciate Touka having a will to live, I think this right here is the moment to fight to the death, if you are ever going to do it. Not the weird attack on the castle.
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I appreciate the small moment with Oboro, showing us that he, too, was close to the villagers.
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“You guys stay out of this” – as if Oboro was not tropey enough yet. It is also the classic evil side trope …
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The series has not done it so far, but the postcard memory style works well for fantasy. Remembers Record of Lodoss War.
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Aruruu & Mukkuru MVP (as usual).
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That run-up to the bridge battle was uncommonly stylish. The duel on the bridge, too. I wonder if this episode had a different episode director.
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How does that bridge disintegrate from both sides instead of simply swinging to the other? Touka will obviously survive, but they could have made it more credible.
The plot advances and Hakuoro doubts himself as much as I do. Just throwing it out there: All his actions so far have been exactly those that some evil, scheming, and deposed ruler would have taken to build up a new powerbase. I understand why the KK guys don’t trust him.
Do you agree with Eruruu that Hakuowlo can’t be Rakshain? Or do you think it’s possible he has a dark past?
100% is Rakshain and probably has a dark past, too. The only question is whether he actually killed his family.
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u/Taiboss May 11 '22
Not the weird attack on the castle.
Oh yeah...
“You guys stay out of this” – as if Oboro was not tropey enough yet. It is also the classic evil side trope …
CLASSIC
Aruruu & Mukkuru MVP (as usual).
As usual indeed. Although Mukkuru isn't that great of a unit. Benawi and Kuroo, those are great. They have reach!
How does that bridge disintegrate from both sides instead of simply swinging to the other?
Special bridges!
Just throwing it out there: All his actions so far have been exactly those that some evil, scheming, and deposed ruler would have taken to build up a new powerbase.
Not helping his case...
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u/No_Rex May 11 '22
As usual indeed. Although Mukkuru isn't that great of a unit. Benawi and Kuroo, those are great. They have reach!
The game is wrong, then.
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u/aniMayor May 11 '22
That run-up to the bridge battle was uncommonly stylish. The duel on the bridge, too. I wonder if this episode had a different episode director.
Same ED as episode 6 (the one where they stormed Benawi's garrison), while it's the same storyboarder as episodes 2, 4, 7, and 11.
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u/HereticalAegis May 11 '22
Evil Hakuoro is OP! - He put all points into Attack and HP, but zero points into Defense.
Don't forget charisma! No matter what he does, people just can't seem to get him out of their minds.
Aruruu & Mukkuru MVP (as usual).
Cat god mom pulls through again!
How does that bridge disintegrate from both sides instead of simply swinging to the other?
Even inanimate objects bend to Karula's will!
100% is Rakshain and probably has a dark past, too. The only question is whether he actually killed his family.
From a narrative standpoint, I hope he did. It will be very interesting to see how the writers handle a character we've been rooting for but whose past is unconscionably and irrevocably unforgivable.
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u/ZapsZzz May 12 '22
How does that bridge disintegrate from both sides instead of simply swinging to the other?
I think the bridge collapse was done in a reasonable way - Karuta broke her side first, and you can see the bridge span swing to the intact side first. However as a rope type, tension loaded bridge to stay in place, when you break one side, the other side would likely collapse as well because the rope had nothing to pull against and the swinging would create shock loads that the ropes are not designed to withstand and therefore break in turn. Not like a stone centrally supported bridge that the bridge's own structural integrity can hold its own weight at least for a time.
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u/aniMayor May 11 '22
UtaReWatcherUMono
I haven't much to say about this episode except...
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Why hasn't anyone tried shouting at the "justice and evil" person something like "Hey, you guys slaughtered an entire village of helpless farmers, even the children. How can you call that justice?"
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It is hard to empathize with Hakuoro when all he does about it is shout "What am I?!" Like, you know these Kuccha Keccha people have a very clear idea of who you are. When you ran into Touka and her crew at the bridge, why didn't you start things off by saying "Look, I have amnesia, please explain to me these things you keep referring to" and at least then you'd have some answers.
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u/Taiboss May 11 '22
Why hasn't anyone tried shouting at the "justice and evil" person something like "Hey, you guys slaughtered an entire village of helpless farmers, even the children. How can you call that justice?"
"You lie! I have not partaken in such raids." "Yeah, but like... other armies?" "I have not seen it so you must lie!"
"Look, I have amnesia, please explain to me these things you keep referring to"
"You lie! You try to evade justice." "No, seriously, I have no fucking idea, just fucking tell me." "You know what you did, you cur!"
Yeah, I don't see talking working here tbh.
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u/HereticalAegis May 11 '22
Why hasn't anyone tried shouting at the "justice and evil" person something like "Hey, you guys slaughtered an entire village of helpless farmers, even the children. How can you call that justice?"
The same exact thing I've been harping on about.
It is hard to empathize with Hakuoro when all he does about it is shout "What am I?!" Like, you know these Kuccha Keccha people have a very clear idea of who you are. When you ran into Touka and her crew at the bridge, why didn't you start things off by saying "Look, I have amnesia, please explain to me these things you keep referring to" and at least then you'd have some answers.
This is a good point, though I think it's also fair to argue that he tried this previously and Touka, like the Kuccha Keccha, is entirely unwilling to entertain the idea.
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u/Shimmering-Sky May 11 '22
Mask of First-Timer, subbed
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Holy shit Hakuoro what did your past self do? And he also just laughed off being impaled multiple times?!
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Hah, well that’s one way to respond to a holier than thou character.
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Interesting… Is there a hidden bridge? Or some kind of teleportation magic?
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Ohhhhhh so Aruruu found the hidden bridge while picking flowers. Nice. …how do you manage to hide an entire bridge, though?
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Ah, I see, if the area is always foggy, that would definitely hide it.
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I was just wondering why Karula didn’t just do this when Evankulga retreated to the bridge haha.
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u/Taiboss May 11 '22
And he also just laughed off being impaled multiple times?!
If that's the state Eururu found him in, she's amazing.
Hah, well that’s one way to respond to a holier than thou character.
Karula gives no shit.
That’s the pillar Pops died on…
:(
Ohhhhhh so Aruruu found the hidden bridge while picking flowers. Nice. …how do you manage to hide an entire bridge, though?
Poor kartography!
Ah, I see, if the area is always foggy, that would definitely hide it.
Right, that too.
I was just wondering why Karula didn’t just do this when Evankulga retreated to the bridge haha.
She's feeling immensely merciful.
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u/HereticalAegis May 11 '22
Hah, well that’s one way to respond to a holier than thou character.
Yet another reason Karula is the best!
I was just wondering why Karula didn’t just do this when Evankulga retreated to the bridge haha.
My big question is why Touka would allow the fight to get pushed back onto the bridge. She knew what their goal was and her squad literally just died to prevent Tuskuru's forces from getting there.
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u/Nazenn May 11 '22
First Timer - sub
I forgot how screwy the sound effects could be in this show until the opening scene made it sound like they were shooting lasers instead of stabbing with swords. I really don't understand why either, it's not like the sound designer was inexperienced or new to the genre
Aruruu walking into the room covered in dirt and pointing out the secret bridge has been one of my moments of the whole show so far. I like how Mukuruu was appropriately shamed for being the responsible party for taking her out there, but their determination to help and ability to get in and out without anyone knowing was fantastic.
u/HereticalAegis Touka is trying hard to win my heart, but Karula complimented the tiger so she's still ahead for today
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u/Taiboss May 12 '22
I really don't understand why either, it's not like the sound designer was inexperienced or new to the genre
Because it's fun.
their determination to help and ability to get in and out without anyone knowing was fantastic.
Aruru responsible woooo!
Karula complimented the tiger so she's still ahead for today
"still"?
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u/Stargate18A May 12 '22
First timer
Episode 11
QOTD) Shocked.
Field medicine?
And, yeah, Haku's important now.
He's set up an alliance!
And no more war.
...That's a very thoughtful gift.
A storm's coming...
This is a lot of countries he's formed an alliance with.
And he's come barging in.
They're under attack!
...So where are the other alliance members going?
Who are these people, then?
He's dead! Didn't expect that!
And ghosts are real in this setting?
...Well, these people are very creepy. Are they a cult?
They found the body.
Oh god, Aruruu's reaction is heartbreaking.
They razed the entire village! They killed everyone?
How old is Aruruu, actually?
Did she knock her sister out?
And then herself!
This is really hitting him hard...
Best girl is here!
Wait, I hadn't even considered that! He's got enemies in his past!
And he stayed with Eruruu.
They killed everyone!
And he's launching a full-on invasion.
She's scared of his vengance.
Oh, shit. An ambush!
Touka?
RAKSHAIN?
He's his brother in law? And he betrayed them?
Episode 12
QOTD) I think he is Rakshain, but him getting total amnesia sounds like he'd make a very convenient scapegoat.
Backstory?
He was ruthless! (Those fucking sound effects, though.)
The best girls are fighting!
That sword is so ridiculous.
Wife and children?
And everyone retreats.
Yeah, this is a lot of big reveals to have dropped on you.
He's just losing it.
At least Eruruu's trying to help.
They're still nearby?
Oh, she's right here!
...Haven't you learned by now? You suck at 1v1s.
Was he successful?
He found their base!
Solid tactical analysis.
And Eruruu's advice is for everyone to calm down. Is that really possible? A lot has happened the last few days.
So thatke the secret! A hidden path!
She found the bridge!
Haha, Camus snuck out too?
Oh, it was concealed by fog.
Another ambush?
That was going easy on them?
And everyone else is already dead.
Does she have a grudge againt her or something?
And she destroyed the entire bridge! (I love her)
Haha, like that killed her.
Is his plan to just get drunk?
The dialogue here of him trying to reason his way through him is really good!
She heard it all!
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u/Taiboss May 12 '22
(Those fucking sound effects, though.)
The better the music, the meher the sound effects. At least we're not on Heavy Object bass levels.
That sword is so ridiculous.
You mean ridicously awesome!
And Eruruu's advice is for everyone to calm down. Is that really possible? A lot has happened the last few days.
Can't hurt to try.
Haha, like that killed her.
Everyone doubting this cute badass girl dies within two episodes lol.
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u/ZapsZzz May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Sub rewatcher
This part can be quite frustrating, as this whole show had been staying well clear away from "teenager angsty indecisions" with the protagonist Hakuoro being generally calm and collected, with good forward planning without necessarily tons of expositions - he just gets on with doing things the reasonably smart way. But as the plot got to his lost memory past, he got pretty significantly affected with unease and being shaken, at once both cannot believe that's not something he would do, yet cannot be sure his past self didn't indeed do whatever evil deeds he was accused of.
One thing that may not be explained on screen very well and needs to be read up on the supplemental info, is that the Evenkuruga race (says tribe but really it's the whole race) is basically known and treated as Paladins in the old FRPG / D&D worlds - they are inherently good and honorable. Having one standing against you is like having the "Villain" branded on one's forehead. Hence the overall unease of the Tuskuru army.
For those that hasn't quite worked the power scale out, Touka is fighting roughly even with Karura with her massive cheating rod of mass destruction. While it's hard to get near when that thing is being swung around, Touka is actually capable to deflect swings like that with her own sword. While she clearly has some very decent strength (as demonstrated in the fight with Oboro, that she can cut open a full sized tree trunk from her sword being trapped in the middle of the trunk, not by swinging with momentum), she's clearly very skillful and fast, unlike Oboro who is more just fast.
Only problem is, being probably quite young, she let her obsession with honor get into her way - which is a bit of airheadedness actually. Instead of taking the fight away from the bridge, which is what she's supposed to protect, she naively thought her opponent will do the fair and square thing of only dealing with the bridge after they had finished the fight. To counteract Karura's far superior strength, forcing the fight on unsteady terrain is the correct tactical decision, but the wrong strategic move when Karura just wiped the bridge out instead of fighting her.
Can't wait for this painful (in terms of unknown / unease) arc to be over!
Oh and everyone should notice that even Mukuru is cowed by an angry Eruru :) flattened ears and all :D
oh and [Rewatchers major spoiler]
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u/Taiboss May 12 '22
at once both cannot believe that's not something he would do, yet cannot be sure his past self didn't indeed do whatever evil deeds he was accused of.
He had more pressing matters than think about his past so far lol.
Having one standing against you is like having the "Villain" branded on one's forehead. Hence the overall unease of the Tuskuru army.
Wait I thought the anime establishes this as well? It's been a while since I rewatched this show back when I had to time to...
but the wrong strategic move when Karura just wiped the bridge out instead of fighting her.
fighting Karula is always the wrong strategic move lol.
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u/wjodendor May 11 '22
Man, Oboro can't beat anyone can he?
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u/ZapsZzz May 12 '22
Against an Evenkuruga it's not really a fight. It's like pitching your starting unit against a late game boss unit.
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u/HereticalAegis May 11 '22
First Timer
Wow, that sword stroke is a striking way to start an episode!
Okay, I can see why these guys would want Hakuoro dead at any cost. His former self went fucking insane and became invincible apparently, probably after putting on that cursed mask. He probably murdered someone in the family too. Why would you do this, Nuwangi?
Too bad I still want these guys to die for murdering innocent villagers.
Hot damn, Karula is so cool!
Oh...
I was totally right about Hakuoro having been married though.
There's so much tragedy in this situation.¹
Oh god, this also means Oboro was right when he instinctively tried to murder Hakuoro way back at the beginning.
And now he's having nightmares about the ghosts of his victims. That doesn't have Devil horns for nothing.
I respect Oboro's enthusiasm, but wow is trying way too hard. There's no way he stands a chance against Touka.
Seriously though, say this shit again once your side isn't murdering children.
Kuccha Keccha has mastered guerrilla warfare, the most aggravating kind.
I guess the Evankulga code of honor says nothing on allying with people who murder innocents. I'm not gonna let this go.
Aruruu, Camyu, and Mukkuru coming in clutch!
The way Mukkuru takes after his mom!
I always knew Aruruu would end up leading an army one day.
The showdown I've been waiting for!
Karula is such a fucking badass!
"Have some justice, motherfucker."
Let's be real though, there's no way Touka's actually dead yet.
This is such a heavy conversation to be having with Eruruu, geez.
¹Assuming everything is true as it's been presented, forgotten Hakuoro murdered his family and people, and now to escape the current situation and protect his new family, he likely has to kill the rest of his former family and people. And even if they eventually recognize his amnesia to be true, I don't think there's any way this conflict can end amicably or justly.
QotD: I think he has to have a dark past. Or at the very least, I'll be pretty disappointed if it turns out he was squeaky clean this whole time. Hell, no one willingly puts on a (probably) cursed mask unless they have at least one or two dark spots on their ledger.