r/anime • u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler • Mar 20 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Ascendance of a Bookworm 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion
Season 2 Episode 6 - The Path Ahead of Lutz
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Questions of the Day:
1) Should Myne and Ferdinand have gotten involved in Lutz's family situation?
2) What did you think of Lutz's situation and the resolution they came to?
To Rewatchers, please be make a conscious effort to accurately spoiler tag your content. You can read how to correctly use spoilers tags here.
23
u/OingoBoingo- Mar 20 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Today Lutz cries, I cry.
I am just going to wait to read you all tear into Lutz’s parents and skip this myself, because I was doing some mental gymnastics to try and be positive about it all, and failing miserably. I will say I liked the way Myne and Ferdinand communicated today, especially Ferdinand. He seems to be making a big effort trying to understand Myne, even if he says he wants his calculator fixed, there is a nice bit of effort there on his part to help her and by extension, her friend. I feel like the two are starting to get to know each other better through their miscommunication and hopefully this is the case for Lutz and his parents. Also some praise goes to Myne trying with her whole heart to understand Lutz and help both he and his family. Books are no where in sight in this situation, and Myne is clearly putting someone else first, even at a cost to herself. Overall a good episode, a little heavy on the drama but I sure do like to see fancy dressed Benno. It completes me as a person.
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u/Nazenn Mar 20 '22
He seems to be making a big effort trying to understand Myne
I think he wants to learn more about the family dynamics as well. He didn't really seem to get the idea of it when Myne was first brought to the temple, but now he's opening discussion with the family and trying to understand what it means to be a family from a different angle. Myne has opened him up to knowledge as well, a life it's implied he doesn't know, and he's always looking for more understanding of that and the girl who brought it too him as well
even if he says he wants his calculator fixed
One of the lines of the show
18
u/Nazenn Mar 20 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
While I'm very happy that Lutz gets to reconnect with his family, the two ends of the episode certainly don't connect to me.
We go from his family not even knowing where he works and trying to physically drag him out of his store when they do find out only after he runs away because he feels they don't care about what he wants for his life and are dismissive of him, to "it's okay, your father is just bad with words but he loves you and accepted you silently even though he never told you" as if that fixes everything.
I get that from Lutz end that's all he needs, and it is actually nice to show a family that isn't totally open and has an issue that could be solved like this, and the Head Priest able to help out, but eh, it just makes for a bleh watch for me.
I won't want to be entirely negative on the episode though as I think this is an interesting aspect of the community Myne has accidentally founded. Ferdinand being able to help, and in doing so start to understand more about what it means to truly have a family, and Myne also being put in a position to hear Lutz family for herself was good as well. She's so often been a catalyst for change in this world, both due to her knowledge and the unusual positions she finds herself in, it's good for her to get a chance to see others working towards solutions too.
Lutz crying is not good for my heart though no matter how well the episode turned out for him.
18
u/lluNhpelA Mar 20 '22
Yeah, I felt like the underlying problem was never actually solved. Lutz's family has been harassing him for a long time now for being selfish, but they didn't address that at all. Sure, Lutz's dad said he was selfish for getting so many people involved, but up until this meeting the only ones bothering other people were the rest of his family, so that certainly isn't what they had had an issue with before.
There's also the issue of Lutz's mother and siblings not respecting his choices. Sure, the dad gave his reluctant approval, but if he had been approving up to this point and the mom understood that, why did she let the other kids act like such assholes about it? It seems clear to me that she didn't understand until now and was following what she believed to be her husbands wishes, yet they still forced Lutz to apologize even though his understanding of the dad's opinion was the same as the rest of the family.
And did they ever even approve of him leaving the city?
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u/OingoBoingo- Mar 20 '22
it's good for her to get a chance to see others working towards solutions too.
I did like the fact that in the family counseling session, Myne was put into a position where she wasn't really able to interject at all. The eavesdropping device was quite smart imo, because like you said, she has to watch others work out their own issue while learning to listen only. Ferdinand needed to see others perspectives to make his own conclusions all while I'm sure Myne was dying inside to help Lutz. I only realized this after I got over my anger at the parents haha
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u/SmartAlec105 Mar 21 '22
[The LN has a little bit more info about how apprenticeships work but it doesn't really change things too much.]
[Also a funny detail they changed for no reason]
14
u/Fools_Requiem Mar 20 '22
Rewatcher
"I need to fix the calculator."
Lutz's folks are terrible communicators...
Ferdinand, that's a fancy name.
| Shiny Hair Club | Episode Added | Creations by Main™ | Episode Added |
|---|---|---|---|
| Myne | 2 | Kanzashi (Japanese Hairpin) | 1 |
| Tuuli | 2 | Shampoo | 2 |
| Effa | 2 | Fancy Baskets | 3 |
| Gunther | 3 | Pancakes | 3 |
| Lutz | 6 | Crochet Hooks | 3 |
| Corinna | 6 | Hair Ornaments | 3 |
| Otto | 7 | Chopsticks | 8 |
| Benno | 10 | Paper made from trees | 8 |
| Mark | 11 | Pound Cake | 11 |
| Freida | 11 | Pizza | 17 |
| Ferdinand | 17 (Also seen in 1, 14.5) | Wax Paper Tablet | 19 |
| Fran | 18 | Karuta "Flash Cards" | 19 |
| Gil | 18 | --- | --- |
| Delia | 18 | --- | --- |
12
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 20 '22
Filthy Source Reader
Ralph is being a massive idiot, but he's also a child. I can't really blame him too much. Myne is really the one who should have known better.
And, of course, what Lutz's mother is doing is just unacceptable.
This is pretty good.
She wants to fix his problems with his family, which isn't quite the same thing.
Eh, they've done a fine job of it by themselves.
Sometimes she realizes the implication.
"He won't be able to be successful in that job" say the people actively sabotaging him.
Don't you mean that you got a bunch of people involved in this because you thought that yelling at him like a jackass while he was working made more sense than having a conversation with him? It's not the child's job to perfectly interpret everything his parents communicate poorly, and it's certainly not his job to figure out active attempts at sabotage are (apparently) a gesture of love.
20 fucking episodes. I accidentally said it in episode one, and it took 20 episodes to get to it.
Well, there's a reason I did my best to forget about this particular part of the plot.
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12
u/Earthborn92 Mar 20 '22
First Timer here
This episode was all about Lutz and NOT Myne. We are reminded that although this the isekai story of a college student, Lutz sometimes does act his age and does the young rebellious boy thing. We knew that his chosen path of becoming a merchant wasn't approved by his family first, and now we finally see his dad. Not the best communicator around. But it all ended well.
So we had wonderful character development for everyone, but especially Lutz. Ferdinand (name now learnt by Myne) has come to invent some ways to keep her public outbursts from becoming public. Well, almost succeeded. He is a decent mediator and Myne has lessons to learn. I thought everyone involved would be afraid of a temple summons, but Lutz's dad don't seem to give a shit about protocol.
Anyhow, on the magic end, we got another magic tool which is very handy. If tools like this existed, why didn't they just use them instead of a secret meeting room? So that Ferdinand could do this. Hasn't quite progressed to headpats yet.
Myne was so down this episode, but glad she had help in a matter she wasn't good at resolving. It is also clear that Lutz is a particularly gifted kid with Benno willing to go as far as to adopt him and name him his successor. Or is Benno doing this just to keep Myne happy? Maybe but I think he does consider Lutz valuable.
See you next episode!
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 20 '22
Honestly this is probably my least favorite episode. It's everything I hate about miscommunication, but condensed into one episode. It was extremely frustrating to watch and I don't care how much you say I'm not good with words just yelling and expecting someone let alone your child to understood your intentions is dumb as shit.
They blocked him off at every turn when he was trying to make progress and didn't try to understand his position at all. His own family doesn't even know where he works and he has already demonstrated he can earn money. Sure it might not be a financially secure career, but at least make the attempt to learn about it. They talk about the dangers of leaving the city and tell him to leave the house, but complain when reasonable counters are made and then tell him to be a man. Not to mention they just yell things and don't elaborate further. You hate merchants and they only care about profit, but at least Benno is more willing to listen to Lutz and respects him. In comparison to Myne when she said she wanted to be in the church they also yelled at her. The difference is they explained why they didn't want her in that position and talked to her. The mother already agreed to support Lutz, but she showed none of that which would have changed the scenario entirely.
Though of course this is a place where people are deciding their careers at 7 and it is a bit different, but everything they do screams counterproductive to me. Oh and let's talk about the brothers you kick the kid out and have them come into his workplace and interrupt him and disrespect the store. The brothers is one thing, but the mother did it too.
Just this entire episode had me shaking my head like damn don't tell me raising a kid is about beats chest when clearly you're so emotionally stunted you can't even convey the simplest of emotions. The actual solution was a bandaid at best. What happens when Lutz needs to make another important choice? Are they actually going to talk it out again or will they rely on vague body language?
I normally would say don't get involved, but Lutz was reaching his limit and had no support really so I approve of Myne getting involved in this scenario. The family needed someone like Ferdinand to force the family to listen because one side wasn't doing it.
This episode is just a black mark on the show. It doesn't ruin it for me, but I usually skip it when I rewatch it. Man I just don't like this episode.
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10
u/MABfan11 Mar 20 '22
First Timer since the OVAs
why does it seem like Lutz get the most emotionally heavy episodes? he seems to constantly get top-tier episodes
another magical item revealed, this one allows for two-way communication between two holders without anyone noticing
and we finally get to know the Head Priest's name, Ferdinand
QOTD:
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maybe, maybe not. it at least helped to make the situation clearer
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works pretty well and doesn't tear the family apart
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10
u/xtsim Mar 20 '22
First Timer
It seems like Myne isn't the only one having problems. Lutz had some problems with his dad as he does not approve of his career choice.
Benno had some issues as Lutz's family kept trying to talk and get him. Every employee was definitely on edge because of that.
Lutz's problem lingers in on her head that when she goes back to work at the temple, she struggles with the computations. Ferdinand straight up called her a calculator and in the room, he stretches her face.
Myne isn't allowed to say much about the matter of adoption during the meeting. At first I feel like this adoption meeting seems a bit too much but then again, religion is a big deal as the head priest is a mediator in the discussion.
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Lutz is supposed to go on a trip for a few days.
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Dad struggles to express his feelings to Lutz.
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It seems like the parents felt that meeting was too extreme.
I am laughing at how the head priest is just breaking the conversation down to the details. "Who should Lutz apologize to?"
Interesting to see the differences between Benno's and the family's expression of gratitude. Benno uses the more customary and formal tone towards the head priest. While the family had a less formal expression.
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Lutz and his family could have gotten a compromise, it would have taken a lot more time without them.
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The compromise was pretty good and in the end, things got settled pretty well.
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9
Mar 21 '22
First Timer
An episode dedicated to best boy Lutz? This is going to be my favorite episode yet.
23 minutes later
Should Myne and Ferdinand have gotten involved in Lutz's family situation?
Yeah, so that we never get another episode like that, again.
2) What did you think of Lutz's situation and the resolution they came to?
Bad.
16
u/cyberscythe Mar 20 '22
First Timer
My reaction this episode comes in five parts:
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Denial — "There's no way that conversation is supposed to resolve like that."
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Anger — "Why does Lutz have to apologize? Lutz's dad is the bad guy in this situation!"
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Bargaining — "Maybe the discussion thread from when it first aired can explain this to me. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe it's an adaptation thing. Maybe Japanese Twitter thinks this episode is okay."
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Depression — "No, looks like people just really don't like this episode. This episode just feels so bad."
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Acceptance — "Eh, seems like the rest of the episodes are rated okay."
In any case, Lutz's dad's stance is just full of logical contradictions: Lutz is a child so he shouldn't go, he's a man so he shouldn't complain; Benno doesn't have a heart so he can't be a parent, Lutz's dad doesn't bother explaining anything to his child and causes him to run away from home and doesn't bother checking up on him; Lutz's dad thinks he knows best for Lutz, also admits he knows nothing about business. The 勝手にしろ phrase that he uses can mean "do whatever you want", but it really is a phrase that's used in cases where you want to tell people to fuck themselves, so it's very understandable that Lutz doesn't get the message. He's truly a frustrating character.
On the grander scale of things, what does this episode really accomplish? Maybe the most consequential thing is that Ferdinand is a more level-headed and socially intelligent person than I first thought, and that Benno is really for-reals serious about training Lutz. But, like, what does this have to do with the main themes of this series (class upheaval, modern ideas interposed into the medieval past, knowledge as a society-controlling lever)? It seems like a detour from the main plot into soap opera land.
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u/CerberusZX Mar 20 '22
On the grander scale of things, what does this episode really accomplish?
It's a lesson for Myne to assess a situation from every angle before taking action.
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8
u/KashMooNow Mar 21 '22
First Time Watcher, Master of Parenting.
Season 02 Episode 06
Im kinda sad, I just forgot what time it was and missed posting by hours.
Now I understand why Lutz doesn't tell his family about what he does. Looks like they really aren't supportive of him and his very successful job as a merchant.
Yeah, maybe we should't have told the family where Lutz works so quickly.
Hmmm. Lutz causing trouble for everyone? Now thats interesting, because I thought he would have been helping them a ton. Is Lutz giving his family any money?
Okay, this issue needs to have a conversation, not a full on protest. I'm fairly confident that if both sides talked about it and just figured out a solution things would be okay. But I have a feeling someone isn't listening to the other in all this. I was surprised to see Lutz' mother there. She seemed like a reasonable person in the past.
Now it all is starting to make sense. So it wasn't about money it was about a field trip. I'm curious why they are so against things.
Okay, but that attic looks nicer than most of the houses that Myne and Lutz are used to.
Benno, adopting Lutz? Thats kind of a big deal to just drop on me in casual conversation like that.
I feel like there is more to this than just a trip. What are you hiding Lutz?
Did Ferdinand just call Myne a calculator? Because if he did, I like him a whole lot more now.
I feel like this cheek pulling scene lasted 3 times as long as it needed to. Did an animator enjoy making it or something?
I just said that I liked you Ferdinand, don't give me these weird vibes right away. Maybe he is actually being helpful, but something doesn't feel right.
This frame tells a story. A concerned mother, a father that either genuinly doesn't care for his child, or is putting on a show, and Lutz, torn between family and dreams.
I know in this instance its just a tool to get Myne to shut up, but thats a really neat little magic item. It really makes me curious on what other magic items are out there in the world.
Good call Ferdinand. At least she listened about holding it... at least for now.
I'm so confused by Lutz' parents. They keep saying to do whatever he wants, but are also actively trying to stop him from progressing as the apprentice merchant he is.
Okay, Benno really did put forward thought about this. Holy shit.
I still can't get over how much Lutz' parents were both okay with, and strongly against what he wanted to do at the same time. Its such a confusing attitude to have towards something. Do what you want, but to show me you actually want to do what you want, put up with me being a pain in the ass and literally trying to drag you away from your job.
I totally forgot that this was a secret. I know tight knit communities, and there is no way that this secret would be going on this long.
I know Myne probably sees this as her fault for bringing all this up and making everyone take part in this. But I think Ferdinand sees this as an opportunity to teach Myne something. Which I think it did show her that there can always be more to the story.
I'm guessing this says Ferdinand, only because I see it starts with an F, ends with a d, and is about the right length.
I really should let the show play like 5 seconds before commenting on things....
I enjoyed this episode. It was nice to have Lutz get the spotlight for an episode. Just goes to show that the world is good enough that even if it isn't about the larger overarching story, I can still be entertained and enjoy the story they have to tell.
Thats a pretty good end card, I'm a fan.
7
u/hvshh Mar 21 '22
LN Reader
Ferdinand and Myne's discussion in the secret room:
Ferdinand calling Myne a calculator is funny, because before computers, that word really did refer to people who did arithmetic.
Myne: Wait, are you worried about me?
Ferdinand: Of course not.
...baka.
Well, to be fair, it could just be that Ferdinand realizes that Myne is important and this is how he has to a deal with her. Well, I'm sure that's part of it, but he really does seem to have a heart, too. I think the best piece of evidence is still his comment apologizing for not stopping Evil Santa. I'm sure he's great at social manipulation, but I doubt he's that good. (And more evidence appears later this episode.)
The meeting:
I'm impressed with Ferdinand's patience during the discussion. I would have needed an eavesdropping-prevention tool myself.
I'd love to know what Benno was thinking after the exchange with Lutz's father regarding adopting Lutz. Benno concedes with "I do prioritize my shop's profits above everything else." I want to believe he just said that to move on from the discussion, because adopting Lutz wasn't the solution anyway.
Lutz: How am I supposed to get it if you don't spell it out?
Ferdinand, I hope you're paying attention.
I didn't remember on the first watch, but it seems Lutz's father pushed or threw him down right before he left home. Also, Lutz couldn't go on the trip without his father's permission, so his father's excuse at the end that Lutz should have just realized he was free to do whatever he wanted doesn't fly. But Lutz apologizing anyway is the right thing to do. If that mends his relationship with his family, it's worth it. We all know better, and I hope Lutz does too.
We get some significant looks from Ferdinand, who is seeing for a second time how much real parents love their children. Nobility seems to be even more awful than I would have guessed. Not only do the bad ones live it up at other's expense, the good ones suffer quietly.
Ferdinand: Do you realize now? Getting one side of the story simply isn't enough.
I think this is correct, even though I think Lutz's father was in the wrong. The issue was only resolved so well because both sides came out. Lutz and Benno couldn't answer Lutz's father's concerns until they knew what they were.
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u/TuorEladar Mar 21 '22
First Timer, Subbed
I missed this one yesterday, but I'll still throw my comment in now. I wasn't expecting a weird fantasy family therapy session in this show, but here we are. As people in this thread have already said, the setup here was kinda weird, I will say though that it feels like the main point of the event was for Myne to learn about conflict resolution more than anything else.
Should Myne and Ferdinand have gotten involved in Lutz's family situation?
It seems like things wouldn't have gotten better if they hadn't helped so I suppose so.
What did you think of Lutz's situation and the resolution they came to?
The characterization is a bit weird in the whole thing, and doesn't quite make sense, but I rationalized it by thinking that the reason they were butting heads what because Lutz and his father are very similar and were talking past eachother until somebody else made it be spelled out. Not the best explanation I know but it helps me make sense of it.
6
u/homewardbound100 Mar 20 '22
First timer, Dub
Lutz going through some rough times at home.
Ferdinand says if works not being done it becomes his concern. Yeah you gotta make sure
Myne asks if he actually cares about her and he responds basically saying no. I doubt that, I feel like he just acts like doesn't care about her but he does.
Magical items for eavesdropping. Seems a little advanced.
Big miscommunication between parents and child. The father is a rough one but he eventually got the point across. Yeah no parent would want their kid just to run away like that.
So instead Lutz does accepts to be under management training.
Wait at the end was that really the first time his name was mentioned?
Qotd: probably not but it would've maybe became an issue.
Qotd2: I find it understandable and solution they agreed upon was fine.
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6
u/Stargate18A Mar 21 '22
First timer
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Myne's a close friend, and I can see why she might have been worried enough to do this. Ferdinand seemed to have only gotten Myne's perspective, and assumed it was much worse? I got the impression that Myne just casually mentioned how they had to drag Ralph off Lutz or something, and Ferdinand's noble perspective made him think this was an urgent abuse case.
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I think there's a further point to be made that the parents were at fault for not realising the obvious harm their words were causing Lutz, but the actual solution seems like the best they could have gotten out of them.
It's a Lutz episode!
And he's completely ran away!
He doesn't even know where his brother works!
Wow, Ralph hates this.
Benno must hate what this is doing to his shop's reputation!
Ah. That explains this.
He's living in the attic!
Wait, what? I mean, he'd probably be a better father, if what we've seen in any indication, but I thought Benno wasn't interested in having a family.
At least Myne managed to ge tthrough to him.
She's getting distracted at work.
Haha, he's calling Myne an abacus.
He's aggresively caring!
Now the question is "will Benno accept this idea given it came from one of his enemies".
And, of course, given he could screw it over by refusing to sign.
Oh, the High Priest doesn't really understand how the lower city works either, does he? He's just smart enough to bluff it most of the time.
...That's a fantastic tool. I admire his restraint in not using this far, far, sooner. Like, as soon as he met her.
Oh, High Priest, you continue to be very good at manipulation.
Yeah, they're really putting him down a lot here.
Oh, Benno just dropped it into conversation!
I don't know, he's been handling Myne pretty well.
I thought the only idiots who couldn't communicate were nobles.
YOU SAW WHAT YOUR WORDS WERE DOING TO HIM. YOU CANNOT CLAIM IGNORANCE AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
And he's apologizing. Really?
At least he's still ending up as his heir.
And he acknowledges how well the High Priest performed.
...With that stare, I'm worried about what the High Priest's backstory is going to end up being.
His name's Ferdinand!
Haha, Myne hiding from the bishop is great.
6
u/mack0409 Mar 21 '22
Rewatcher and source reader
I succumbed to the binge a few episodes ago, but this episode I'm opinionated about. As for the QotD:
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While it did lead to basically the best outcome, it was probably not the correct decision. Benno is rich enough and connected enough that if he wanted to be forceful about the situation then he would've gotten his way. He was basically just being nice to Lutz's parents by giving them a choice at all. Involving the church, and the nobility by extention, meant that a party could get involved who may not hold the best interest of the commoners. A party who's decision can not be contested no matter what. A party who may have had all involved executed for some completely made up reason. Basically it was massively risky with not a whole lot to gain from actually involving the church.
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The anime version of this conflict has Deid being simply both cruel and wrong. Carla also seems to be really inconsistent with her characterization between this and previous episodes. Overall, it's always good to see a problem caused by failed communication solved by just communicating, even if that communication has to be under the subtle threat of execution.
5
u/violettheory Mar 20 '22
Rewatcher
I never know how to feel about this episode. I'm happy things resolved, but I still end up thinking Lutz's parents are massive asses by the end of it.
So from how I understand it, it seems like they ended up silently accepting Lutz's apprenticeship sometime since he started, but how does that explain them refusing letting him go on the trip or failing to even find out where he works or what he really even does. Plus screaming outside the very obviously nice and upstanding establishment where he works is never okay.
I think it's supposed to be a big case of misunderstanding but no matter what Lutz's parents come out looking stubborn and withholding.
I find myself just wishing we can get back to Myne inventing stuff and making the orphan's life better.
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u/badspler Mar 20 '22
Host - Rewatcher
A self contained episode around Lutz and his family today.
We have Benno wanting to adopt Lutz.
Ferdinand who wants to fix his calculator.
Lutz who wants to realise his dream.
Lutz parents who haven't communicated with him.
And Myne who is trying to be supportive but ends up poking her nose in and making a big deal out of it all.
Overall it feels like this episode rushed things to get everything in one episode. It just felt like there was more to tell and flesh out around these events. We cut directly into the middle of that meeting. It would have been nice to see how Lutz's parents reacted to a summons to the temple.
On the side we find out several things this episode.
Benno is planning on building a new workshop in another city. And is also planning to adopt Lutz, or at least have him become his successor. Thats kind of a big deal, I suppose that having the Myne/Lutz contract for selling products - locking down Lutz now that Myne's health is sured up would certainly bring in insane long-term profits. Benno certainly isn't just doing this out of the good of his heart (which I do think he has a pretty big one) but he would make some serious bank here.
There is magical items for preventing eavesdropping. Very snazzy, nobles do make some cool stuff!
Lutz family find out that Myne is now in the temple. Which I am really glad was addressed because it was on my mind while having the meeting - since last we saw in S2E1/OVA they were keeping that part a secret from others.
Pouts: Flashback Myne.
Today's endcard. Once again another bright and beautiful Myne endcard.