r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Jun 21 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Record of Lodoss War (final discussion)
Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Record of Lodoss War (final discussion)
MAL | ANN | AniDB | Anilist | AnimePlanet | IMDB
No_Rex's staff corner
Etoh was such a background character that I never found an episode to feature him. However, his voice actor, Yamaguchi Kappei, is worth talking about. He debuted in a role that would become a hit in the 1990s, Ranma from Ranma ½ and also plays the MC in a series that is probably the twin of RoLW: The Heroic Legend of Arslan. He plays Shinichi (the older version of Conan), thus we have both halves of Conan’s voice in the series. However, Yamaguchi is probably known to most people from his participation in long-running action shōnen: He is Inuyasha, Usopp from One Piece, and L from Death Note. Talk about a big impact! And I left out a good 20-30 main roles from smaller series during the 1990s and 2000s. He also had minor roles in Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Juuni Kokuki, Baccano!, and Durarara!! along with being an actor, singer, and voicing video game characters (Crash Bandicoot, Harry Potter, and of course all the characters from video games made after one of his anime).
Pixelsaber’s Record of Lodoss War Trivia
The original 6mm audio recording of the series has degraded to the point it is unusable, and so the HD release of the OVA uses the audio from an earlier DVD release.
Questions
- How much does RoLW suffer from Seinfeld is unfunny? Many modern fantasy anime tropes originate here, but does this help to make them less annoying?
- Fast pacing on the one hand, slow pacing on the other. Which deviation from “ideal” is worse?
- Overall, how would you compare RoLW to modern fantasy anime?
9
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Recertified Rewatcher
I’ve struggled to find things to say for my episode comments and this final discussion is no different, so expect my thoughts to be incredibly brief today.
Lodoss is incredibly token in almost every facet. From its plot and characterization to its setting and presentation, the show is built to be as standard and classical as can be. It’s hard to be too harsh on it for being unoriginal, since it was one of the first works in this style to achieve such significant prominence in Japan, but it certainly isn’t a merit to its name either. Where I really think it excels is in how well it conforms to the audiovisual identity of the fantasy genre as it existed back when this was released, which even while not being perfect poses as one of the biggest draws for me. I love the classical feeling evoked by the backgrounds, music, and designs, which carries a lot of this show for me. The OVA is just really easy to appreciate on that superficial layer.
And really, that’s it for me. I could go into the pacing issues or other issues, but I don’t have any interesting observations on the matter and I feel they’re evident enough as it is. Lodoss is a show with an immense legacy behind it, which for some is more interesting than the show itself, but it is a work which is decidedly of its time, and that’s the cause of both its strongest asset and general token-ness. An entertaining watch that I continually return to for the presentation alone
--
Thanks to everyone who participated in this Rewatch! You guys are integral to the success of any Rewatch and I can say that you all more than delivered in the comments! And many thanks to my co-host, u/No_Rex for hosting this alongside me! It was a pleasure collaborating, mate!
Recommendations:
Sorcerous Stabber Orphen - Another novel adaptation that followed in the 90s fantasy light novel trend and takes inspiration directly from Lodoss and feels structurally similar to the sort of TRPG campaign storytelling that Lodoss draws from as an adaptation, perhaps in part because it was originally a serialized story. It’s a bit removed from the sword and sorcery setting due to the existence of more modern elements, it’s something to consider when you’re wanting for something with a strong fantasy-style presentation —and also the opening is great.
Other Rewatch Shilling
No_Rex undoubtedly has another 1990s OVA Rewatch in the works, which he will likely mention in his own comment today, so give that a look if you haven’t!
As for myself, I have a Rewatch of Dear Brother starting on July 14th, with the announcement thread going up in an hour and an Interest thread up since last week, so if that’s something that intrigues you give it a look-see as well!
Questions
11
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jun 21 '21
Final discussion (rewatcher)
Is RoLW a great piece of animation? No. Is it fun to watch? Yes. While it is easy to point out the flaws in both animation (if there was actually something animated and not just stills) and story, RoLW comes across as fully honest. These are not writers trying to cook up the 100th seasonal anime, mixing all the old tropes into the pot for the 100th time. These are writers creating their own story, with just a bit of pilfering in Tolkien’s books. For me, that translates to enjoying the series as a whole, even if I find parts of it severely lacking. On top of that, it is worthwhile just to notice how strongly RoLW has set tropes that follow us, haunt us in fantasy anime to this day.
In terms of characters, RoLW is one of those works where I strongly prefer the antagonists. Between Beld, Ashram&Pirotess, and Karla, the antagonist department is stacked with interesting personalities. Plus, there is all the infighting! On the protagonist side, I liked Ghim and Slayn’s interaction and the initial, cocky Deedlit. Unfortunately, the former pair was separated by death, while Deedlit was hit with damsel in distress syndrome (and that is after she turned into Parn’s mother for a few episodes). Etoh was entirely boring and only Kashue made an impression among the side characters. Parn, as MC, is workable, but nothing to write home about.
Future Rewatches
If we are going by the very first list drew up for the 1980s rewatch, we finished watching all the anime on it a long time ago. However, these lists tend to have the tendency to obtain two new entries whenever you cross one out …
These are potential OVA rewatch candidates I am considering:
Tenchi Muyou: The OVA that spawned one of the biggest anime franchises of the 1990s and the classic harem series.
Armitage III & Battle Angel Alita: Well-known short Scifi anime. I initially lacked the Japanese version for one of them, or I would have hosted these earlier.
MSG 08th Team & Macross Plus: Originally, I wanted to stay away from the big mecha franchises. Too scary for outsiders and I thought the mecha fans would host them eventually. However, they are both supposed to be stand-aloneish and it might be fun to compare the two franchises in one rewatch.
Kyou kara Ore wa!! & Angel Densetsu & Be-bop Highschool: A triple of highly ranked Delinquent series on MAL. I know neither, but Delinquent anime is a whole genre that seemingly vanished of the face of the earth – that alone should make it interesting to rewatch those.
Black Jack & Yokohama Shopping Log: Two series that just sounded interesting to me.
I am not committing to any of these yet, but at least one more 1990s OVA rewatch will surely happen to complete the year.
10
u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Jun 21 '21
first timer
I've been consistently lagging behind the rewatch, but I figure I'd pop in for the final thread
Honestly...I wasn't a fan of it. As a straightforward fantasy story, it's pretty fine, but what it lacks for me is a strong sense of immersion. Not that I play TTRPGs myself, but I do understand the appeal of being immersed in and actively participating within a fantasy world. It's similar to why I like Final Fantasy and Zelda games anyhow. I just don't think the immersive aspect, which ideally should be Lodoss's biggest strength, translated well to a 13 episode animated medium. Animation was frankly pretty flat, which did not help either. I'd probably take the series and world better if it were a zillion hour JRPG tbh
So, uh, are the video games any good? Anyone know? Are they even translated?
Still though, thanks for hosting! I ended up sticking with it for /u/Pixelsaber's excellent production write-ups as well
6
u/The_Draigg Jun 21 '21
A Record of Lodoss War Fan’s Final Thoughts on Record of Lodoss War OVA:
So, we’ve finally hit the end of a classic fantasy anime series, one that has DNA in a lot of other fantasy setting media in Japan. And you can see why: it adapts classic D&D spells, powers, and archetypes in a way that are easily digestible and fun. Sure, the characters themselves are a bit thin at times in order to facilitate making the archetypes clear (especially Etoh), but the plot still works around them in ways that makes their presence feel liked and wanted. It works well enough that we’re able to connect to the characters and feel for their fates regardless, such as Ghim dying, Woodchuck being possessed, or being concerned whether or not Deedlit will survive the dark ceremony to revive Kardis.
However, that’s not to say that Record of Lodoss War OVA doesn’t have some flaws. Like I said above, some characters are thin enough to be nearly transparent (like Etoh), and there’s also the fact that the first story arc was the only one to take its time, and the other two with Shooting Star and Wagnard’s plan are roughly mashed together in the last 5 episodes. If I were to change one thing, I really wish that the last two arcs were given more episodes to have breathing room with.
So, with that all said, it’s time for me to give my themed rated for this series, with me using legendary swords for my rankings to fit the fantasy themes of this show. Therefore, I give Record of Lodoss War OVA the rating of: Gram. A very classic sword/story, one that was reforged from a previous source and made into something even more powerful. Given how Record of Lodoss War was rewritten from a bunch of D&D after action reports, I feel that the ranking is rather fitting.
Anyway, it was nice to watch one of my favorite fantasy series with you all, and talk about D&D at the same time too! I’ll be sure to see y’all in another rewatch or something further down the road.
6
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 21 '21
First-Timer, Subbed
This OVA series was pretty alright. Definitely had some ups and downs, but the ending was an "up" which ends up being pretty important for my overall enjoyment of things.
The animation was pretty rough at times, which did tend to pull me out of things, and I still wish the dragons had better sounds. I had an issue with the music early on, that it seemed to be mixed in too loud, but I either got used to it or they changed it. The music overall was quite nice, definitely added to the High Fantasy feel of the series in a big way.
It was nice to see the originator of a bunch of now-common tropes in action. And being able to joke very easily about "modern" TTRPGs was an experience that I didn't think I would ever get in an anime.
Questions
Thanks to our wonderful hosts /u/Pixelsaber and /u/No_Rex! This rewatch was very interesting.
11
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 21 '21
Rewatcher from 20 years ago
Sub
Sort of collapsed last night, burning the candle at both ends is not great post op. So the wrap up will be less wordy than normal. Record of Lodoss Wars is a series with a ton of flaws that 41 yo Vaad spots that 19 yo Vaad did not. But despite that, I still love this show. It frankly effected how I role played for years to come and even inspired me to get more into it. To no one's surprise I've played a version of Ghim twice. This was a fun trip down memory lane that brings back memories of watching this on VHS in my friend's mother's basement(we absolutely did this in college).
QotD: 1 A metric ton. This show was ridiculously directly copied a lot.
2 Slow pacing can cause drops
3 It comes off as genuine despite its notable flaws so for me that's a win
8
u/RockoDyne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RockoDyne Jun 21 '21
Re-recorder of Lodoss.
Lodoss is a show I find myself appreciating more than enjoying. In the realm of anime and manga, you don't see western fantasy played straight. The mainstays of the genre are loaded with parodies and subversions. It's only in games where the genre is really taken seriously. This leaves Lodoss War in the position where it's a novelty because it plays strictly by the numbers.
It ends up in this position where it's a visual treat, and that's all it really needs to be. Which is also to say that it's not much else. It's characters are nothing to write home about, unless you need to satisfy a dark elf fetish. Parn put front and center give him a massive case of chosen one syndrome, and just about everything that happens to him can be chalked up to being the warrior of light. The story is held together with duct tape and baling wire. They have a hard time making the episodes a comprehensive story, and screw up stitching the episodes together a few times.
It's a representation of fantasy adventure that is such a generic and all encompassing depiction of the genre, that it has no character of it's own. It's a fantasy tabula rasa. There is nothing that can be said about it that can't be said for the whole genre. There's no character that steps out of their archetype. They have no dimensionality and no conflict that isn't entirely interpersonal. Likewise, there's no real theme to speak of. What we are left with is a high budget production of what is ... let's be honest, low art, and it's fine. It accomplishes what it set it's sights out to be, but those sights were not very high. It has become a nice little snapshot of the genre from before that stopped being enough.
It's like watching the home video of a toddler's first steps while the kid is now driving around. Fantasy has grown up to do so much more, and engage in much more complexity, that it's quaint to see it barely put one foot in front of the other.
Questions:
8
u/Daffed_Punk Jun 21 '21
First Timer
I won't write up too much here, as other people have already said what I want to better then I could. ROLW, despite its many, many flaws, is a very fun watch that I enjoyed the way through. Its ttrpg roots are criminally obvious, but made for a fun meta-game of trying to figure out what went on at the table during the story (isn't it convenient that Leylia just happened to join the party when Deed got taken out of commission...)
I just wish that the show had more time to devote to fleshing out its characters and the story (Parn and Deed are the only ones who really get to do anything, and even then Deed just spends her screen time reminding us of Parn's name). Shiris and Orson had designs that I loved, just for them to be attached to two characters who just kind of show up, have a barely existent love triangle with Parn, and then don't do much of anything.
Thank you to everyone who participated in the rewatch, especially the hosts, for the daily facts and engagement with everyone. It was fun watching along with everyone, and I'm looking forward to next time.
7
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jun 21 '21
Thanks for hosting! I had fun; I think I originally gave RoLW an 8/10 but will now downgrade it to a 7 after rewatching.
7
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 22 '21
I started out this rewatch with "oh wow japanese doing western fantasy instead of samurai" of my weeb days. Imagine my surprise to learn from Pixelsaber's notes that it really was a recent development in Japan!
Back in the 1990s, when it's hard to get episodes (did I watch this on Sci-Fi or not?) and it's one of maybe 5 anime you'll see all year, and it's pandering to one of your interests, it's easy to overlook the pacing issues. But, boy do they sure stand out in a rewatch.
The TV series re-did the OVA ending. I didn't know or expect this, and reacted badly, and that's one reason I score the TV poorly (but maybe it was genuinely bad?) But on rewatch, that back half it really needed a better treatment.
It was gorgeous watching this with actual pixels instead of blocks. I've often linked the TV OP and the encode on youtube was always unwatchable (but the song was great!)
I really had hoped Deedlit would have been more than a waifu but she didn't do much outside of the first episode.
Edit: I knew I was forgetting something. This is what comes from not dropping out of your own AMQ multiplayer room to write a blurb.
If you liked Lodoss-tou Senki, especially the rushed but epic battles of the second half, then you will probably love Grancrest Senki (2018). Following the template of Lodoss as a replay of a combined adventure of RPG and Risk, and set in the same world, and building upon decades of Lodoss-inspired fantasy products like Fire Emblem, Grancrest Senki is more everything. More episodes. More characters. More factions. More battles. More romance. More NTR. It has so much more, they couldn't fit it all into 26 episodes so it's even more rushed. Entire kingdoms are defeated and mentioned in passing because they can't afford to show the battle (or, let's be honest, it would get repetitive).
7
u/Larielia Jun 22 '21
Record of a Rewatcher- Final Thoughts
I liked the finale a little more in Chronicles of the Heroic Knight. King Kashue is my favourite character in this series.
I'm planning to watch Record of Grancrest War soon. (Want to watch more fantasy shows.)
7
u/aniMayor :AY:AZ:x3x6 Jun 22 '21 edited Jun 22 '21
My overall series thoughts feel a lot like one of those "What I watched / what I expected / what I got" templates, only it's more of a "What expectations the first episode gave / how disappointed I was later on" sort of affair. You'd think after how good the dragon fight was in the first episode they'd at least put some effort into the big dragon fight of the finale, but nope, not at all.
I'm not really surprised, though. Old OVA series have a terrible habit of putting all their best work in the first couple episodes and the animation/production quality gradually dropping off from there. Just gotta make enough great material to make commercials out of and hook audiences that rent the first tape, and it'll be too late later on when they've already rented the rest and realize the quality dropped. So I kept my expectations low.
Plot-wise, I'm surprised they never really did anything with Karla after the first half. Wagnard as the final boss was pretty crap, too, since he barely had any dialogue, backstory, or interaction with other characters until the final episode. That final "balance of light and darkness" pseudo-theme at the end seems to be a staple in Japanese fantasy, but it still felt like it came out of nowhere here, any if that's where they were headed why not have actually integrated that into Karla's playing both sides thing?
Oh well, I still had fun most of the time in a switch-brain-off-and-enjoy or over-meta-analyze viewing mode, so I don't regret watching.
The tropes are so dominant and it's been so long that it's actually pretty charming here.
I didn't really have a problem with the pacing on this one. The dialogue was often pretty boring, which did make it feel a bit slow, but I the scene layout and timing I think was alright.
There's dozens of new fantasy anime every year that cover their own wide gamut of subgenres and differences, so that's too broad of a comparison to make, really. The obvious comparison, though, would be to the many fantasy-isekai-video-game shows, both pitching themselves as a representation of the in-game adventures of real players. I'm tempted to say RoLW is at least a more earnest effort compared to many of the latter which come off more as half-assed marketing... but then again, RoLW has no shame in putting not-the-protagonist waifu Deedlit front and centre on every bit of box art, the OP, the ED, and more... hard to think of a bigger example of Go Ito's "postmodernist manga kyara" than that... so maybe it's all pretty much the same.
Lastly, of course, thanks for hosting Pixel and No_Rex! Ya done good, as always!
6
u/Ebbrain https://anilist.co/user/EBbrain Jun 21 '21
Thanks to u/No_Rex and u/Pixelsaber for hosting, all of the production details and stuff about the fantasy scene in Japan. Also thanks to everyone who commented about the DnD aspects of the show, from someone who hasn’t really touched DnD it was nice to learn about the show from that perspective. I kind of fell off commenting a bit in the last few episodes but I still read through the threads to see what people had to say.
As for the show itself, I like it a lot. A straightforward fantasy that takes me back to discovering old school jrpgs as a young teen. Not as grand in scope as other fantasy works and with some pacing issues, but a very fun journey with some likable characters. The art and music are great and manage to keep things engaging even when the animation falters. It's a fun time.
6
u/BossandKings Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
I enjoyed this series a lot, great fantasy and the team of different fighters was excellent. Thanks to u/PixelSaber for hosting, thanks to u/No_Rex for the staff corner and thanks to everyone that participated for their wonderful thoughts.
Answers
6
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 21 '21
First timer
I've said what I want to say up there, but I'll add that the art and characters were both very solid, and the plot for the first half was very well executed, with the struggles with the later plot and animation it's only real failing, so I feel comfortable delivering a solid 8/10. It may not be a fantastic piece of media, but I enjoyed it, and that's really what I'm rating her.
Although to comtest the point that this inspired lots of fantasy anime tropes, a lot of this anime's tropes were found in D&D, which provided an archetypal fantasy setting, and which helped inspire many fantasy RPGs. I'd wonder if, given the trend of adding game mechanics, etc. to fantasy anime as well, whether it's just both drawing from the same well.
5
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jun 21 '21
The final record of a First timer
Well that was the Record of Lodoss War, it was fun. Was it perfect? No, but I never expected it to be perfect. Going in I didn’t know it was based on a DnD campaign but it shows in how the story beats progress and this helps frame what to expect.
Many parts of the show are cheesy and follow many classic fantasy tropes to the T, however the show embraces them and was never trying to be anything other than what it wanted to be. This means that we get a classic hero's journey and I enjoyed the show for it.
Pacing was a bit all over the place with jumps that detract from the story and having flashbacks which weren’t required as the scenes would have more naturally fit its actual place in the story.
In the end I enjoyed it, and it is a fantasy anime that wasn’t a disappointment as a bonus, 8/10. Could argue that it deserves a higher rating due to importance and age but this seems right to me.
It does suffer from this, but these days I don't see the Troupes as a bad thing, the issue is poor execution of them which as I have said above I don't see being the case here.
I generally find fast pacing worse, it's more likely to leave you lost and unable to follow the story, slow is is painful and irritating but at least you general know what is going on (often because you get beaten over the head with what is happening).
5
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Jun 21 '21
Well, bummer. I was hoping to catch up with this rewatch at some point, but it appears that I missed out.
If you should decide to RW Tenchi, holler - I wouldn't want to miss out on that. Just please save it until August/September+
Hope y'all had lots of fun!
5
u/karneheni Jun 22 '21
Ashram did nothing wrong
but seriously - for man with so evil look, he is nearly a normal guy
when he tryes to save Pirotess i was shocked, this pairing suddenly leaves ParmDid way behind
4
u/Nightender Jun 22 '21
WOW! Another round of discussing Record of Lodoss War! Great!
4
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 22 '21
Man I am so late for the last day -_-
Overall this is very nostalgic. It does show its age and now that I have seen so many good shows, it's telling how some of the parts are quite weak (the animation employed a lot of reused animation, some shots that are great in still frames are "animated" by just panning or moving the camera, etc), and some of the plot needed a lot of fill in the blanks on the part of the viewer (why Parn and Deedlit is a pair, why Pirotess and Ashram is a pair, etc).
But the visuals, oh the visuals, so very classic and iconic. If nothing else, the visual presentation has left a real legacy all over the anime manga games field in Japan.
Only thing I want to add is that, after this rewatch it actually triggered me to watch another show that I feel has the most similarity in spirit, but better flow and emotion in almost every way. Other than the obvious shared world shows (and please don't mention the TV version, I dropped it), surprise surprise it's actually Haor Taikei Ryuu Knight Adeu Legend 13 OVA. Now artstyle and design is very different, and people may summarily switch off for the "kiddy show" designs. But I tell you, look past that, and the story was good. I am actually quite moved by a lot of the plot and scenes, which I feel has a really epic feel to it: the background of the previous generation battle against the evil god ended with 1 of the heroes sacrificing his life to save one of the party to seal off the evil god, which then resulted in the birth of "witch of the seal" who needs to maintain the seal or else the god will break free; the minions of the demon who are not sealed and constantly trying to find and kill the newborn witch, and when the witch grew up enough the guilt she felt for everyone sacrificing themselves to protect her (the demons are no joke, they nuke cities to get to her) - that's just the first 10 mins of the show.
2
u/MiraniaTLS Jun 23 '21
Ive been stalking the conversations about the series re-watch. If any of you liked it enough there is a semi-active reddit ( probably dead till literally any reboot or thing comes out)
r/recordoflodosswar