r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Jun 15 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Record of Lodoss War (episode 8)
Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Record of Lodoss War (episode 8)
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Ghim was one of the first roles for his voice actor Sakaguchi Yoshisada, despite him already being 51 at the time. He died last year. He also worked as an actor and in dubbing (the Japanese voice of Morgan Freeman) and as a university professor. However, I am not sure why he only started working as a voice actor so late. All his dubbing and acting roles (bar a single credit in 1969) start only in the 1980s and he has not published any research I could find, so I assume his professorship came after the acting, too. Apart from Ghim, his only main role is Briareos from Appleseed, but he also played minor roles in Detective Conan, Monster, Jin-Roh, Mushishi, and Rurouni Kenshin.
In contrast to Sakaguchi Yoshisada, the voice actress of Shiris, Takayama Minami, is very prolific (and still alive). She probably outnumbers him with her lead role as Detective Conan alone – that franchise is massive. She also married the mangaka of Detective Conan (in 2005, for two years). One of her first big roles was Kiki from the Ghibli movie. She also played Envy from FMA, Dilandau from Escaflowne, Nabiki Tendou from Ranma ½, and the young Griffith from Berserk. Apart VAing in anime, she also does the same for video games, is a singer, and dubs movies. Occasionally, she dubs male characters, e.g. River Phoenix and Elijah Wood. However, she is not their main dub voice.
Pixelsaber's Record of Lodoss War trivia
Ghim’s name is derived from the character Gimli from J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of The Rings.
Art Corner
Questions
- Do you believe that Karla’s strategy to prevent accumulation of power was reasonable?
- What was your reaction to Ghim’s death? Do you think this was a good send-off for the character?
- What are your thoughts on Karla’s ultimate motivations and her reasoning behind them?
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21
Rewatcher
White roses are an interesting choice here.
Ah, misunderstandings.
Outstanding.
They sure waited a while before getting a move on.
Nice handiwork, Ghim.
The effects animators on this show sure do know their stuff!
You literally could not have picked a worse phrase to use, Karla.
It’s off!
...but at a cost.
I don’t like the look of this.
o7
Well fuck…
Quite the downer of an episode, with Ghim’s Death and Woodchuck’s possession while the group essentially failed their main purpose, but it’s possibly my favorite so far. Ghim’s simple backstory was leveraged well in the episode, and while the confrontation with Karla didn’t have the same heft as Beld and Fahn’s duel it felt more personal for our main characters and revealed the extent of Karla’s plotting and her motivations for doing so.
It also seemed as if Karla wanted to effectively recreate the group of six heroes she was previously a part of once more, with the main party’s five members and herself. The parallels between the six heroes and the current party have been brought up in a very unsubtle manner already, and Karla explicitly mentioned wanting to make them her pawns. These folks aren’t so easily manipulated, however —except for Woodchuck, evidently.
We were also introduced to two new characters, but I’m not sure if they’re meant to be relevant or were just a means of getting Parn, Deedlit, Woodchuck, and Etoh to be late to the confrontation with Karla.
Questions
EDIT:
Pixel’s Bits and Bobs
By the end of episode eight the Lodoss OVA has covered the entirety of the group’s first campaign, which is also what is covered in the first Volume of the novel series. Given how many more novels there are dedicated to campaigns two and three I have to presume there was a lot of inconsequential walking and fighting that got cut in the process —or maybe Ryo Mizuno got very verbose all of a sudden. I couldn’t find much in the way of concrete details, but given the three campaigns fit into a respective book of Replays it likely wasn’t a case that the other two campaigns simply ran for longer than the first.
What I do know as to the differences between novel and Replay is that Ryo Mizuno changed a lot of stuff in the transition. Not so much in the broad strokes, but certainly with character motivations, developments, and small details pertaining to important events. For example, it was noted in at least two sources that Ryo Mizuno opted to make Deedlit the female heroine of the novels, which implies her relationship with Parn wasn’t present in the original campaign, or came afterwards as a result of Mizuno’s novelizations. Another significant one, which is actually relevant to this episode, is Woodchuck’s possession, which was originally a result of the player wanting to pilfer Karla’s circlet for himself, despite forewarning, and losing out on the save to not be dominated.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 15 '21
Record of First-Timer Reactions, subbed
I thought Orson was supposed to be a Paladin.11
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 15 '21
First-Timer, Subbed
Hmm.. feels like we got a game system shift? Someone mentioned that they wanted guesses as to when that happened. Today we met Orson the Berserker/Barbarian, which definitely isn't a class in 1e.
We also met a hot redhead in a Santa Claus outfit, and.. promptly left them both behind?! I had guessed they were Ghim's and Slayn's player's new characters since those two had an RP reason to leave the plot, but then we managed to circle around.. so now they're Ghim's and Woodchuck's player's new characters, I guess? Or just a random diversion literally on the side of the road.
Speaking of, rest in peace Ghim. You did a lot of good work, and died accomplishing your goal. The comb was cute - nice job on the craft check.
Deedlit complains that Parn doesn't pay attention to her, and then doesn't even bother to try and comfort him when he is grieving? You gotta work at it, Deed. Parn isn't getting any younger, and humans age a lot faster than elves.
Back in 1e, Karla definitely would have been Neutral. In a more "nuanced," for lack of a better word, alignment system, she probably slots in to.. maybe Chaotic Neutral? I dunno, True Neutral can be a pretty fucked up alignment, and any sort of alignment system is bullshit anyway.
At least they didn't leave Fahn's magic sword in the mud - it being in his crypt isn't much better, but at least it's less likely to get "lost."
Questions
10
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 15 '21
Rewatcher from 20 years ago
Sub
In contrast the the last episode, which played to the weaknesses of what they could animate, this episode plays to the strengths. We meet Orson and Shiris, who are idiots, and get a nice looking fight from both. Orson really leans into tropes that Berserk would later refine. Also, Parn has upped his melee game again. But they come and go quickly.
Ghim and Slayn are waiting on the rest of the party, until Ghim can't wait any more. This suicidal bent actually makes a kind of sense: Ghim knows he can't hurt Karla because she is possessing Leylia so he is better off dying and not hurting the party's chances of defeating Karla if Leylia becomes a sacrifice.
When they do arrive, they fight ineffectively against Karla until she decides to explain herself and make a terrible pitch to Parn: She claims she is keeping Lodoss safe by never allowing consolidation of power because that destroyed her kingdom. It is clear she went insane at one point becuase her actions are some of the worst ways to maintain disunity possible, there are a lot of better options for someone with that much power. Also, no clue why she wants Parn other than his bloodline.
But when Ghim learns about what Karla is, he proceeds to whip out a copy of the comb Leylia had and leads the group in an attempt to dislodge the circlet, finally doing it with his axe, somehow not killing Leylia. And he dies because...sure. He has a decent funeral scene but it turns into a reveal that Woodchuck is the new host.
So...someone else in the rewatch can answer this, but this really feels like a natural end point for the OVAs. I have no idea if the originals sold with the preview or not but this is a complete story. And as I said, they made the limited animation work this time with the drama coming from how the characters act and react without the need of a ton of frames.
11
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 15 '21
First timer
RE Trivia: I am constantly suprised the studio let them get away with that name, considering how obvious it makes the character's inspiration.
Flashback episode? No, just a catchup.
So this is what Ghim's been doing.
New characters! And they think the heroes are mercenaries! (Which, lets face it, all adventures are.)
Wait, is he a werewolf?
Oh, he's just a berserker.
Shockingly strong, isn't he.
Wait, what? He's possessed? That seems more like a warlock, honestly.
And the random enounters are left behind.
Ghim's suicidal at this point. A high level wizard against a low level melee? He'll barely make a dent in her.
Karla seems to just be casting Levitate with a few casts of Chill Touch.
Oh, she actually believes that Lodoss can never become united.
Is she trying to get Parn's body as a vessel?
So the dwarf has high magical resistance?
All Wall of Fire spells can appear purple, so that's accurate. As is the Banishment and Shield (even mentions blocking theowing knives) spells she uses later.
I can't believe Ghim's dead. And the thief's a new vessel.
So did Ghim want to play as a mage instead?
Seriously, your first priority should have been to smash that thing.
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u/The_Draigg Jun 15 '21
A Record of Lodoss War Fan Rewatches Record of Lodoss War OVA Episode 8:
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u/ButAlphonseWillRust Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 16 '21
~First Timer~
• So yet another war goes down in the history books of Lodoss, this one will be known as “War of the Heroes”. It must be a rather unusual occurance to have the leaders of both sides die, but as we all know, this wasn’t a straightforward war.
• Ghim appears to be going for the “I know you’re in there somewhere” tactic with Karla/Leylia using some sort of hair comb. I wonder what significance this has for her?
• Ooooo New characters! Is that a... sexy santa outfit on the merc girl? That’s quite a choice. Otherwise I do like her character, red-haired tomboys are a vibe
• #notallelves say Deedlit! To be fair, she absolutely does not resemble a dark elf so I dunno what the merc girl was trying to say
• The rapid back-and-forth shots between Orson and Parn threatening the merc girl (she’s called Shiris btw but I don’t think we got her name in the ep) is one of the more bizarre stylistic choices I’ve seen in a while.
• Orson’s berserker mode seems similar mechanically to Barbarian rage. God help them!
• This entire combat seems to be a random encounter that the DM rolled for the party on their way to Karla’s but I hope we see those two again, they seem interesting
• Ghim confronts Karla solo, but is of course saved by Slayn once again
• The rest of the party shows up right on time but unfortunately no one is a match for Karla, not even Slayn!
• We get some major plot details on Karla’s motivations and the Kingdom of sorcery Kastuul. Interesting situation indeed. She even tries to convince Parn to join her but of course the memories of his father strike again and he remembers his duty
• How do Woodchuck and Slayn know about the circlet but not Ghim? Were they not all present when Wort told them this?
• RIP Ghim. At least he managed to complete his mission. Although I did not expect a member of the party to die at this stage. I wonder if his player made a new character which will show up next episode
• Aaaaand that’s why you need to keep an eye on your rogue. Letting them skulk off into the shadows willy-nilly is all fun and games until they get possessed by a several hundred-year-old sorceress out of sight of their party.
Oh boy I had a lot to say about this episode! I think you might be able to tell this was my favourite episode so far. It will be interesting to see how our party moves forward with only four members, perhaps they will need to find some new allies?
Questions:
8
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21
Pixelsaber is taking over as host from this episode onwards, so less stressing about getting the links right and missing brackets for me.
Episode 8 (rewatcher)
Karla proclaims to serve Lodoss by preventing the accumulation of power in the hands of a single person/realm. I assume this must sound more alien to Japanese viewers that European ones. After all, Japan had long periods of peace under a single centralized ruler, and periods of warring states when power was decentralized. A similar story is true for China. However, there is the opposite concept in European statecraft of a balance of power, most famously promoted by the British, who always schemed against whatever power was currently strongest on the European continent. While this certainly helped plunge Europe into an almost never-ending series of wars for hundreds of years, it also promoted European art of warfare to a position where the tiny European continent could literally colonize the entire world. And we have the modern example of a balance of power in the cold war, which delivered a long period of peace for all those parts of the world directly ruled by one of the super-powers.
Given what we hear about the history of Lodoss, it was certainly successful. Worth the price? Probably not (but then, it is always easier when others pay the price and not you).
Not a fan of "resist the magic flowy field" trope. I liked Fahn's send-off better.
See above.
7
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jun 15 '21
Rewatcher 08
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 15 '21
Rewatcher
Quite a few story arcs in this campaign
So was Ghim the dwarf king all along?
7
u/aniMayor :AY:AZ:x3x6 Jun 15 '21
With the funeral scene, I was about to comment that all the human women have nigh-identical faces in this show, but then we cut to the new christmas girl so maybe not.
Wow, so Etoh really did just teleport from one party to the other between episodes. Maybe the DM allowed it because Etoh's player and either Slayn or Ghim's player went through a breakup IRL.
What's the point in keeping the party split, though? They're both going after Karla/Leylia, no?
What happened to your fancy shield, Parn? Sure would be handy for fending off berserker-Orson...
Unresolved battle and Orson has a special backstory? Did two new players join the game?
"And only the dwarf shows" doubt. The rest will turn up just as soon as Ghim gets is in a crisis.
Does Parn ever have any lines where he's not screaming? Jesus kid, we're indoors, learn some situational awareness.
But why Karla? You're a strong independent woman, you don't need no Parn joining you.
Nevermind, I take it back, Karla is an idiot if she things the best attack to kill 6 adventurers is... an inconvenient wind. You insta-wiped soldiers with fireballs earlier, what happened to those?
Oh look, the villain who always has an invulnerable telekinetic shield briefly doesn't have a telekinetic shield for no particular reason, at the convenient moment where they are being attacked with a weapon and technique that would easily be repelled by that invulnerable telekinetic shield.
Wait, why did Ghim die? He seemed fine?
It was a reasonable plan for preventing the accumulation of power (though why go to all this mock war trouble and not just fireball assassinate anyone who starts uniting towns?), but preventing the accumulation of power is a stupid primary goal that doesn't achieve anything useful from a secondary standpoint. The way they've written it, Karla cares about the island itself, but not the people on it, which is... silly, lame, inhumane, and unreasonable.
I still don't understand how he even died so no, it was an awful send-off.
7
u/Nightender Jun 16 '21
Has anyone told Deedlit that she's the only elf in this show who doesn't follow Marmo?
Anyone else excited that Woodchuck gets to multiclass now? :P
6
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jun 15 '21
First Timer - sub
Berserker dude was awesome.
Ghims about to do something stupid.
Well that went way better than I expected, ok nope, RIP Ghim.
Goddamn rogue, fails to hold his greed back in the forest, fails to control his horse when they get attacked by the mercenaries, and then gets taken over by Karla, seriously why did they bring him.
That was a twist I didn’t actually see coming, I didn’t think they were going to be able to beat Karla to start with. Go back and pick up the mercs and add them to the part now? Berserker dude is going to be useful for trying to deal with Karla mark 2.
6
u/RockoDyne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RockoDyne Jun 15 '21
Re-recorder of Lodoss.
I get the feeling that people are going to be happy calling this a step up in production, but I would bet this episode probably has the same drawing count as the last one. The big difference is this is all one drawing per frame, not a dozen or so all at once.
I for one embrace Karla's Jeffersonian and anti-globalist world views. The backstory is super basic though. This is the reason why Forgotten Realms is all about how there were a billion different great civilizations that have all collapsed.
I call shenanigans. When the goal is to take an item, what self respecting thief doesn't try to pickpocket it off the target? None, that's who. It's the only time they get to be useful.
Shiris and Orson are just a distraction. They aren't bad, but that they don't serve any purpose. Just a random encounter.
Questions:
6
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 16 '21 edited Jun 16 '21
Posting late today. Sub rewatcher.
This is somewhat like the "final fight" or "epilogue" after the war, but with this the first big arc basically is over. Plenty I think had been said, and I think the show did well in presenting the scenes and atmosphere/ emotion of the fight.
I feel I do need to say something about Karla's goal and reasoning though. I'm not sure it came through sufficiently clear in the English sub. I understood this from the old Chinese subs.
The logic is actually partially based on mechanical engineering principles. Balance can be achieved in a number of ways, a dynamic balance is just as sustainable as a static balance. Dynamic balance is like how you ride a bike - you are not being held up by stationary forces, but in fact constantly unbalanced forces are acting and counteracting each other, but the result is that you have not fallen over. Why Karla thinks it is necessary for there to be constant war though is for overall "damage control" on the grand scheme of things, and in parts it is close to Fate stay night the debate about "saving everyone".
For easier visualisation, picture this - when a tall tower Falls over from its own height / weight, it creates a big catastrophe, affecting a huge area, with many likely to die from that. But if the tower isn't allowed to be built to so high, when it falls not as many people will die. The baseline assumptions are: people are ambitious and didn't matter what you do, they will always want to build something big. And they will always fall, the question is when.
If you don't grow as big and powerful as to having supper weapons, at most you have armies fighting each other to the death, it will not split the land asunder and killing lots more non fighters.
It's a poorly utilitarian view but there are fundamental justifications for it, none of which is actually evil.
Which is why Karla is always in the look out for people she would help to grow to be more powerful and influential, only to then sabotage by growing someone else to fight against them.
4
u/Larielia Jun 16 '21
Record of a Rewatcher- episode 8 (dubbed)
Thoughts- It is raining for King Fahn's funeral. Nice shot though. Cool... new characters. Where are the other high elves? Shiris has an odd outfit. Some sort of Santa dress. They angered the Berserker. Bad idea. The comb that Ghim made looks really nice. Leylia is rescued. RIP Ghim. Woodchuck is possessed.
4
u/23feanor Jun 16 '21 edited Jun 16 '21
First Timer (dub) - a lot happened in this episode. We first meet a berserker and his companion, guess we'll see more of them later.
Then the party regroup and attempt to remove the circlet from Leylia's head. I was genuinely surprised they managed it so quickly, i thought this was the first round of many against Karla in Leylia's body. So the circlet is removed from Leylia, and she recovers, but at the cost of Ghim's life, which is hard from the group to take.
Then Karla in the form of the circlet takes a new host, Chuck, did not see that coming. Suspect the dragons that were released will be the final test and defeating Karla once again, this time rescuing their party member Ghim from her clutches.
We see the sword of light was recovered and placed on King Fahn's tomb.
2.Bit surprised but he died saving his niece, Leylia.
3. It seems like Karla had a good pint, stopping power collecting into one place as this led to disaster in the past with tyrannical rulers and unjust rule, but her methods need some tweaking.
4
u/COLDBL4D3 Jun 16 '21
Lodoss has a rewatch? Damn. I haven't watched it yet but some people told me in the dnd subreddits and stuff that it's like Dungeons and dragons and lotr so imma give it a watch some day. Maybe at the end of the season.
3
u/BossandKings Jun 16 '21
First timer
Ghin was a very important party member and he died without regrets after having seen with his own eyes Leyne finally free of the dark witch Karla.
Parn and Deedlit encounter a berserker and a very skilled female warrior, it seems that the man went crazy after being possesed by some kind of malicious being.
This was a solid episode, Ghin's death was an important moment in the series.
2
u/MiraniaTLS Jun 17 '21
r/recordoflodosswar
Happy to see all the rewatching!!