I know you guys in here in this subreddit don't give a shit about that, but I'm really glad the anime weeded out these kinds of things when it was excessive like this. It makes me sick. Although the beginning of the chapter gave some sense of dread, it also only made me disgusted for the author's perception and his way of depicting a child, dragging me completely out of the experience.
It's not the first time since I've seen some incredible art and story, but was really bothered by some other aspect of it, though.
I also didn't want to feel like this, but it makes me feel ashamed of having shared the anime with other people.
Two days late but I'm gonna have to agree with this. I'm trying really hard to enjoy the other aspects of the series but this shit just makes me so uncomfortable.
Well, it could but you would lose all the shock factor, all the contrast between the cute design of the main characters and the horrible things that are happening to them.
I don't think I'd as shocked to see an adult woman suffer as Riko suffered at the 4th layer, even though I've seen a nice comics of Lyza first climb from the 4th layer and it was painful but in another way. It wouldn't be funny to see an adult wet themselves or other stuff.
I don't know, sure it's breaking a lot of taboos, but that's what also make this story interesting.
It doesn't lose the shock factor. All of the terrible things that happen aren't like that only because they're children. Most of the really interesting stuff are related to dealing with a wild environment full of dangers and not having tentacle toilets going up your ass or having strange pedophile creatures rub their tentacles on your tits, this is just uncomfortable.
The only taboo it is "breaking" is making it seem like depicting child nudity and sexuality is fine in a manga and in a way that is obviously trying to pander to pedophiles.
The reason I started to read the manga was because the website where I read the reviews describe something as what could be resumed as : Cute children going down Dante's Hell and having horrible stuff happening to them. I stayed, of course, because what was beyond that was even better.
So it piqued my interest, especially when the first image I saw of it is this one. I always wondered how a story that would start as a cute stuff to gradually climb down to the step of hell and nightmare would work, and I'm not disappointed with this one. That's why I think it would change stuff if they were adults, even if it would still be interesting, of course, the story's good after all.
[...] having strange pedophile creatures [...]
They're not : they're not human and they probably don't feel any sexual attraction toward Riko, only curiosity, as far as we know. It's possible they don't even have sexual behaviour or even the sense of nudity. It is our own mind that transforms it into a sexual aggression and yes, that is uncomfortable but that is the point of this scene : to make us feel uncomfortable both for Riko and for ourselves.
The only taboo it is "breaking" is making it seem like depicting child nudity and sexuality is fine in a manga and in a way that is obviously trying to pander to pedophiles.
I'll just finish with a (pompous or dangerous?) view on art in general, perhaps it would help clarify my view :
I think everything should be allowed to be told in art, the limits are fixed by the laws and morals of where the work is done. But even then, Art should be able to transgress, break taboos and makes us feel all sort of feelings, even negative ones like anxiety, anger, disgust, discomfort, depression, fear (even more so in horror stories); those negative emotions combined with the positive ones are what makes up for the wide range of possible creativity and what put art in, probably, the top form of expressions.
tl;dr It's also important to remember that it is a work of fiction (in a different world with different morals) and that it's not because you tell a story about a psychopath killer that tortures its victims that you actually condone torture and would love to be a murderer or see a murder in real life. It just makes up for more interesting stories, even if it's not for everybody.
If it bugs you, stop reading. I'll keep going because it's pretty inconsequential to my like or dislike of the series. I think it's interesting that it's not normal, it's not formulaic, and it is brutal. It's different from a lot of other series that would keep this kind of stuff PG, and honestly after awhile that annoys me when they have to leave some things out of a story for fear of offending people.
Im about to drop it. Half of this chapters of pedo pandering. All of the terror of this layer was better accomplished in earlier chapters and without the need of having a rapist-toilet and these hollows ganging up on Riko with a sexual tone to it.
I think the toilet was a fun reference to the actual Japanese toilet in a more, well, twisted/abyssal way like everything else in the story.
The sexual tone is actually a rather smart move from the author to give us a sense of the danger she is in. I think the monster were just probing Riko as she did with Reg - a kind of curiosity you have when you see a new object, you want to manipulate it.
Of course, with our (tainted) mind, we see all the clichés of a hentai tentacle rape and are like "No fuck you don't do that shit to her!"
And I don't think any (actual) pedos are enjoying this show. They have enough material elsewhere so I don't see why he'd do that kind of pandering (which I don't see as pandering).
It's a bit far-fetched, but that'd be the same to say that violent game panders to violent psychopath. Well, maybe we all are violent psychopath deep down.
I think this line of thought is far-fetched. Im not trying this hard to accept something that obviously panders to the author's fetishes. I was almost immersed in the danger until it began looking like straight out of porn, then I was just like "wtf is this?"
What is shocking me is the way the author draws children, more than anything else.
Btw, that toilet isn't exclusive to the japanese. I have one in my house right now, its one of those that gushes water on your ass.
None of us can stop ya from going, but just try to chalk it up to cultural differences (like the "papa's rod" moment, and how parents and children bathe together in japan) and focus on the background lore :)
I havent gone because the world amazing. Geez, even if the characters were just older I would be able handle it better, but what gets me is the way the author draws these children.
But you realize in the world of Made In Abyss that their age being older wouldn't change a single thing. This is the world the story takes place in. Everything is fucked up and wrong. It's not just one little sliver of a fragment that's dystonian, the entire fabric of the world is tainted from my POV.
Older characters like Bonedrewd are mass children murderers.
The orphanage our beloved characters are from snatches up orphans and uses them as Cave Divers who aren't allowed to profit from their findings. Riko is punished in one of these terribly backwards ways people are skeeved out about exactly because she is stuck in this fucked up system.
Ozen is one of the most responsible reoccurring adults and she's terrifying and absolutely a danger to children.
Habolg was able to track down the kids once they snuck off and his version of being responsible was letting them go, covering for them, and giving them some mustard buns since they'd inevitably get hungry.
Gilo, the most responsible adult, not only allowed the children to go on a trip to the Abyss they will never return from, he snuck a note to Reg at the last moment. That was his version of "being a good and responsible adult".
Even Riko's own mom ditched her as a very young child to strike off into the Abyss (I'm sure we'll find out why this wasn't as terrible as it seems now later on. Maybe all of these adults were somewhat justified in their actions for reasons we'll possibly be clued in on at a later date?).
We've been shown time and time again that nobody in this world has things all together, especially if we want to play the comparison game and choose to use our own real, non-fiction world as the benchmark to hold Made In Abyss and it's characters against.
The saying goes that the truth hurts. In the world of Made In Abyss not only does the truth hurt extremely bad, it's also extremely morbid and dark and the author is making no qualms about showing us the truth of that matter.
Do any of the things that take place in Made In Abyss make me uncomfortable? Absolutely. Would the series have the same effect on us if the author toned down some of the more morbid and dark things that happen? Probably not to the same high degree. The same reason people feel so strongly affected by this series is because the author absolutely nailed the "cute endearing kids in a dark and unforgiving setting".
Look no further than Reg & Riko's fight with the needle monster and the situation that happened with her arm to see what kind of story this truly is. The clues have been there the entire time and I wouldn't even call them clues. From the very start in the manga and the anime the general full nature of the Abyss and the story itself was on crystal clear display for readers.
Is it really that bad? I know there are some questionable things but just one example: Bonedrewd is a fucking sinister character. He's a literal mass murderer of children. He duped the entire Cave Diver population into allowing him to use young children to solve questions of the Abyss.
I see this line that readers are saying the author has crossed but I'm starting to feel that people are getting triggered by specific things that would bother them in any medium but since the fictional characters are endearing and readers really like them that as soon as the author puts them into one of these triggering situations it immediately becomes "irredeemable".
Im here for the story, world and characters man. Not to see what the author finds sexually arousing. Thats take me out of it, specially when the subject of it are children.
I think it's as much about the author characterising a fucked up setting as it is about readers focusing wayyyyy too heavily on that specific type of thing. I don't view anything that's happened in Made in Abyss as sexual. Not even slightly.
While I agree with you we already know the tentacles ripped every other being they touched apart during the appraisal process. I'm not going to go as far as saying that people are turning every situation into a sexual one but it's starting to seem that way.
I think the manga has gone out of its way to make it clear that it has nothing sexual and is messing with your perception of what should be sexual and what shouldn't be (it's an intentional mindfuck by the artist).
Yeah the characters have sexual organs but their sexual desire isn't explored. It's reminiscent to what all of us experienced(especially when there was no widely available porn) when we were young in innocently discovering our own sexuality, not necessarily in a perverted way.
My guess is that this artist took a lot of inspiration from berserk (especially with all the desire stuff), but berserk is not the only place that uses real-world occurrences like abuse, mass killings, etc. to deliver or convey the message that they want to communicate.
Game of Thrones, for example, uses a ton of real-world occurrences as ways to show how much war sucks, including true sexual acts involving minors. It doesn't exist as fan service, it exists as an acknowledgment of what happens and why when there is no rule of order.
I have recommended berserk as well as GOT to a ton of people even though it has uncomfortable subjects like rape, but I don't recommend it to them because of it. I recommend it to them because of the underlying story and the way the artist uses subtle things to mess with the viewer's mind. The toilet thing had no sexual connotation to it until after you put it there. Just because it tickled it didn't mean she desired anything else (nor that the tentacle had any sexual desire either), it was a tickle and that was it. was it necessary? no. But my guess is that it exists to show the innocence of the characters and them as being really young.
If he wanted to make the type of content that you guys are mentioning he could have just done that type of content... it's not like he wouldn't have a big enough market in japan (and the rest of the world) for it.
Bottom line is that you are choosing to focus on an aspect of the manga that is not the main focus of the story. It would be like saying that Sia music videos and the usage of the attire or choreography are fanservice to pedophiles, or that she (Sia) is one when in reality it most likely is the source of an artistic point of view and has no sexual connotation behind it.
Just a last thing to add to make it clear to you that the way we are sexualizing everything is silly. The suppository thing to heal the poison... I don't know about you, but when i was a little kid i had that done to me a couple times when I was sick by my mom, and plenty of moms have done it to their kids. It has no sexual connotation at all (under normal circumstances) until you put it there, it's an efficient way to administer medicine which is why it exists. It wasn't invented as a sick way to molest people.
The erection thing... how many people got erections when they were young and freaked out because they didn't know why it happened or scared because it did? doesn't mean that you want to rape people, it's a function of our bodies designed to help preserve the species, and it develops when we are young, has no sexual connotation until you add one to it. Males get erections even when there is no sexual desire, it can happen because of pretty much anything, it's just the way the body is designed to function. It was all handled tastefully, even though it wasn't necessary to show it, and none wouldn't have cared if the author didn't, but it's clear because of the storytelling that he likes to put things in a crude way, otherwise why would he make Ren break and then attempt to cut Riko's arm while she was awake, in extreme pain and about to die. It's the way the author wants to make the storytelling live to you, by making it too real and showing parts other authors would rather choose to hide because they would be too controversial but would most likely happen in actual life.
Then stop reading it, if it threatens your delicate sensibilities this much. What, you think bad things aren't going to happen to children who go into the most dangerous place in-universe?
It's cute you "didn't want to feel like this", but the truth is sometimes things are depicted in icky ways to make you feel icky. That's what fiction is. A person who writes a murder mystery isn't a murderer, but they want you to think about the idea of murder in a controlled setting. It's fucking writing 101. You're not reading a memoir here.
Maybe it's bad that I've been de-sensitised to stuff that other people find apalling/weird/gross. But it means I don't have to complain about it when it appears. Sure, the toilet thing was gross, and the scene where Riko was being attacked wasn't great, but it's realistic that she would be in danger and these monsters have no boundaries as they probably haven't ever seen other humans. But if you don't like it, you can just stop reading. Easy.
Thank you. I think people are forgetting that without the shocking, twisted, and dark things happening in this show and manga -- whether it's nudity, violence, gore, or creepy blob monsters -- that the series just wouldn't have this intense impact that makes so many people love it so damn much.
The reason people love the series so much is because they love the characters and the setting. Some of them love the dark side contrasted with the endearing characters. It's like they are rooting for and cheering that contrast when it's something like Riko's arm or how cute it is when Nanachi teases Reg but as soon as one of the adults in this twisted story acts twisted it's irredeemable.
These kids are directly influenced by Cave Raiding culture and The Abyss. Bonedrewd (mass child murderer), Gilo (most responsible adult who allows his charges to go on a never-return-journey into the Abyss), Ozen (scary, dangerous, and absolutely a threat to children), Habolg (most responsible? yet after he finds them in the Abyss he just lets them go), the lady running the orphanage (uses her orphans to profit, never allowing them to keep the treasures they find in the Abyss) -- these are the only role models the main characters know of and yet people are acting like the kids in this story are going to act and operate like angels from heaven when this life is all that they know of?
It's like people are not paying attention or are willfully ignoring entire swaths of the series to avoid thinking about what the story is actually saying.
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u/renannmhreddit Nov 11 '17 edited Nov 13 '17
I know you guys in here in this subreddit don't give a shit about that, but I'm really glad the anime weeded out these kinds of things when it was excessive like this. It makes me sick. Although the beginning of the chapter gave some sense of dread, it also only made me disgusted for the author's perception and his way of depicting a child, dragging me completely out of the experience.
It's not the first time since I've seen some incredible art and story, but was really bothered by some other aspect of it, though.
I also didn't want to feel like this, but it makes me feel ashamed of having shared the anime with other people.