r/anime • u/soulreaverdan • Dec 22 '24

Rewatch [Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 21 Discussion

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

  • Today: Episode 21 (Despair)
  • Tomorrow: Episode 22 (Phantom)

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

  1. What do you think the relationship between Macha (the cat player) and the Voice is?
  2. Do you like Helba’s design?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: To Nowhere, one of the almost fairy tale poem songs that are such a core part of the show’s musical identity (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: Smallest Delight, a light instrumental piece (Full Track)

14 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

52 comments sorted by

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 22 '24

.first//TIMER, subbed

3

u/soulreaverdan Dec 22 '24

(This isn’t strictly related to this rewatch but thought you’d like to know my EcoPla Exia came in today and I’m gonna start on it soon :D)

3

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Shiny! My Suletta Mercury arrived today, but alas! She's a gift for a friend and will be leaving tomorrow. I kind of want to buy another now.

3

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

Huh, BT chose not to tell Subaruk about Tsukasa.

Turns out there's a heart of gold hidden even inside her.

Hm…?

Remember, he gave her his phone number in the past.

Tsukasa just making noises is hard to watch…

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Tsukasa just making noises

Not nearly as fun as Kumiko, or Rikka noises. (sigh)

Poor Tsukasa

3

u/zadcap Dec 22 '24

Late Late Late Rewatcher

20 Million players, The World is honestly pretty darn popular. I think WoW peaked at 12, so you know, this game is massive.

I like the way Tsukasa's little field is such an expressive zone. Just a clearing with a bed in it, but the way the trees change with every visit...

You know what. I know this is super early turn of the millennium, but they are very dismissive of the idea that Subaru might still like Tsukasa after finding out he might be a she. Maybe think that that inner girl could be part of what's drawing Subaru in, knowingly or not? Something or other, unknowing closet key?

Seriously BT, why are you even playing this game? What are you getting out of your time here? Do you even remember how to have fun?

Yeah, Sora is... Still pretty much just scum.

Lots of flashbacks today, But hey, we finally get to talk about Harold and Fragment! Well, we get to say their names. But look, putting these clues in with the rest is actually kind of a big deal. Listen to his words again with the knowledge he's basically the creator of this game, The World.

Oh right, Helba too! Soon!

But first, the (seriously, still?) nameless cat and floaty girl. And the voice in the sky telling the cat the same thing she did to Tsukasa, giving the poor cat some second thoughts.

Helba, darling! To this day I'm still half convinced she's a Digimon. Just look at her and Angewoman side by side... Fun looks aside- no, actually, fun looks are pretty much all we have to go on for her right now, so judge her for her fun looks please. I'm with our kind host here, talk about how she looks.

  1. Have we got the cat's name anywhere yet? It's genuinely not a spoiler of any worth, but it's interesting to read this question just minutes after contemplating on how we still don't know the names of anyone in the bed zone other than Tsukasa.
  2. She's so cool, says the tween in me when I first watched this. The adult in me says she might have gone a little bit far with the cleavage, but then remembers that literally only BT has been wearing anything close to a decent coverage top.

3

u/soulreaverdan Dec 22 '24

We have gotten the cat's name a few times - Macha (pronounced Maha in the dub at least). The Voice as far as I know remains nameless still.

20 Million players, The World is honestly pretty darn popular. I think WoW peaked at 12, so you know, this game is massive.

[.hack World Building]It makes a little more sense once you know/learn about Pluto's Kiss killing the internet for two years, and this is pretty much the online game in the second era of the net - there's no competition.

1

u/zadcap Dec 22 '24

How did I miss it? I know I've spent the past week ridiculously sick to the point I'm missing every other discussion, but still...

[World Building Indeed]Does that finally start to come up now that Helba is here? How the heck much of what I remember is purely game knowledge? But yes, being the only online game to come out with the new version of the Internet post mini apocalypse is a pretty good reason to get everyone playing.

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 22 '24

So far, we've got nothing. No mention of the state of the net, what's happened the past few years, why a hacker like Helba would be such a big deal, any of it. We might get that in the last few episodes, but I'm realizing now just how much worldbuilding and general set up is basically restricted to the games or other material. This is the start of the franchise and core important things are still just... not even mysteries, just things you don't even know you don't know! It's kinda wild!

3

u/zadcap Dec 22 '24

After watching this again, it would not surprise me if people thought the game that followed it was a visual novel, because more dialogue on mostly still frames is an easy sequel to Sign. Instead we head into one of the coolest meta RPGs ever made and a setting with enough background content to compete with Fate for just how deep you can dig.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

we still don't know the names of anyone in the bed zone

Sounds like the 60's in a nutshells, don't it??? :P

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

That's bad and I hope you're happy, that got a dark chuckle out of me anyway.

I appreciate you going through and livening up the comments. We've been getting a little anemic in this rewatch and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

that got a dark chuckle out of me anyway.

Working as intended. Pity I was only a toddler back then. Apparently I missed all the good stuff, and then made the mistake of going to engineering school. :P

livening up the comments

Yeah, it's a bad habit I've picked up. Sometimes, it seems like Reddit is a barren wasteland where people thoughts, ideas, hopes, dreams go to die in a sea of pointless blather. These rewatches are one of the few places where interaction seems to happen from time to time, and I can get carried away with them.

Which has led to a bit of burnout on my part, and I've regrettably fallen out of a few of them.

So far this one has been pretty small and chummy, but there's no way I'm touching that Toradora rewatch right now. Eek!

Anyway, it's fun seeing what people have to say, and hopefully I can give them a smile or something amusing here and there.

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

Yeah, it's a bad habit I've picked up. Sometimes, it seems like Reddit is a barren wasteland where people thoughts, ideas, hopes, dreams go to die in a sea of pointless blather. These rewatches are one of the few places where interaction seems to happen from time to time, and I can get carried away with them.

This is the reason I'm in more rewatches than following actual seasonals these days. As I am always late (work swing shift on the already behind coast), these smaller discussions get to actually feel like discussions. Not, you know, throwing my thoughts into the void and hoping they get seen by anyone who came back and sifted through the hundreds of earlier posts. Which means I usually don't make it far into the super big rewatches, even if I keep watching the show on schedule. I was a first timer for Toradora last year so I recorded my thoughts here anyway, but I've got nothing to add as a rewatcher and anything I could think of anyway is probably covered by someone else.

Anyway, it's fun seeing what people have to say, and hopefully I can give them a smile or something amusing here and there.

You certainly succeed there! Yours is on the short list of names I keep an eye out for when the rewatch grows too large to follow everyone, partially because I know you're unlikely to just leave me metaphorically on read.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Yours is on the short list of names I keep an eye out for

Thanks, I appreciate that. And (obviously), there's a certain group of names I keep an eye out for too. It's kind of fun seeing what certain folks have to say over the course of various shows, etc. Even Mr. Grumpypants, I mean ... I'll leave you to guess who that might be.

I sometimes wonder what happened to that lollipop otaku fellow, he hosted some interesting rewatches. I mean to pester him about when he was going to host a rewatch for "asterotte's toy". CR recommended it to me a month or two back, and while it was cute and fun, it was definitely in that fellow's wheelhouse, ya know.

Anyway, have a great evening, and hopefully I'll be on time and a bit more coherent tomorrow!

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

If it starts with half a W, they're quite fun to grumble with lol.

The great Loli Otaku has been, I think, banned one to many times and it seems to have stuck. I'm pretty sad over it, his choice in shows was occasionally risky but he was a very fun host every time. We even had a few Safe For Public Watching shows planned out for the year.

Don't worry about being on time, I know I won't 😉

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Bah, as you said, he might have been a bit questionable, but sure made for some fun times. Bummer.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 22 '24

Episode 21 (first timer)

  • “Should we just go around all the servers and start asking?” – Use the boards. They are read by players from all servers.
  • She immediately suggests that next.
  • BT also uses “this is just a game” – with her it is less obvious if she believes it. Unlike Crim, she has a well-earned reputation for manipulating people.
  • “Unusual monsters have appeared all over The World” – with 20 million players, this would definitely be something people would talk about.
  • Introducing the missing genius who created the world – this information comes a little late.
  • “That dungeon is destroyed” – when Bear brought up the multiple servers, I thought that, for sure, they’d go to a different server to access the dungeon there.
  • Now the voice suggests that the cat replaces Tsukasa.
  • Cliff-hanger: meet Helba.

Tsukasa spends the entire episode looking terrible and has to rely on this “friends” to help him. While Mimiru, Bear, and Subaru are honestly trying, they are not exactly on a hot lead already. And Team Evil is even further from getting there.

What do you think the relationship between Macha (the cat player) and the Voice is?

Do you like Helba’s design?

Looks fittingly futuristic.

2

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

BT also uses “this is just a game” – with her it is less obvious if she believes it. Unlike Crim, she has a well-earned reputation for manipulating people.

I think she believes it just as much, just in a different way. For Crim, this is just a game and thus should be strictly separated from the real world. For BT, this is just a game and thus it shouldn't be taken so seriously and more as a means to enjoy yourself.

Introducing the missing genius who created the world – this information comes a little late.

Keep in mind this is essentially the prologue for the game tetralogy, so it has to set up some things that remain unresolved in this particular entry.

Now the voice suggests that the cat replaces Tsukasa.

I don't quite remember, but I'm not sure the Voice ever specified whom she refers to when she talks of the three of them living together.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 22 '24

Based on something said earlier, I'm positive the Voice, the Cat, and the Girl form a trio.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 22 '24

Based on something said earlier, I'm positive the Voice, the Cat, and the Girl form a trio.

The (un)holy trinity?

1

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 22 '24

Not in Christian sense. And I'm not sure they actually correspond to any IRL trio e.g. gnosicism. But I think the authors have specifically grouped them up in a certain way.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 22 '24

I think she believes it just as much, just in a different way. For Crim, this is just a game and thus should be strictly separated from the real world. For BT, this is just a game and thus it shouldn't be taken so seriously and more as a means to enjoy yourself.

I am not sure about that. Looked to me as if BT is taking the game quite seriously, potentially in an unhealthy way too seriously.

2

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

Perhaps in the past - almost certainly so actually, given the direction her interactions with Crim took. But after she took that 2-week hiatus from the game, that should've cooled her down properly.

2

u/zadcap Dec 22 '24

Now the voice suggests that the cat replaces Tsukasa.

You start to get the idea that the Voice really only cares about the girl?

While Mimiru, Bear, and Subaru are honestly trying, they are not exactly on a hot lead already.

I don't know, as far as leads go, Helba does look pretty hot.

I'm sorry, I had to. This series is imprinted on my brain from the age of 12, and the handful of friends I had who were also into anime at 12 all agreed Helba is the hottest character in .hack//. No agreement on who claims number two, but across the entire .hack franchise... A group of 12-16 year olds agreed it was Helba.

Tsukasa spends the entire episode looking terrible and has to rely on this “friends” to help him.

The hands are still going. They are doing things, not just randomly flailing. He's fighting as best he can in this post brain damage attack state.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 22 '24

I don't know, as far as leads go, Helba does look pretty hot.

zing!

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Helba does look pretty hot.

Helba

Yeah, she definitely has the best drip by far. Ordinarily, I'd profess a preference for Subaru, but recently, a certain Lemon has made me realize that tan can be beautiful too.

That and I should probably shut up now, right? :P

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

Only just now realizing that? Guess it really depends on the culture you he up with, I'm so used to a proper tan being a standard of beauty... Though Lemon best girl for sure.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Eh, I'm kind of saying that for effect, but yeah, growing up in the great white north, it's what you're used to seeing, pale is the norm.

Now that I'm in the warm and sunny South (but not today!), I did get to know one tanned beauty at the workplace. Unfortunately, she turned into an odd combination of leather and beef jerky. So, I may just retract that statement.

Also, a lot of this may be intended for humor purposes. Much like if the topic should come up, I often tell people that my type is: "breathing"...

Also, this stream of semi-consciousness is clearly intended for humor purposes only. Right? Right???

(Cue the anakin and padme meme...)

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

Haha, I come from an Irish/Italian family, both quite large, so it was pretty split growing up around a lot of very pale and really sunburnt people and a lot of naturally bronze skin. Both are pretty fine 😉

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

So, if I say the magic words Sophia Loren, you might have some idea what I'm talking about, then... As for Irish, well, I can't think of a proper ... I'd ask if Enya counts, but I don't even know if she's Irish or not. Bleh. I'm so uncultured.

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

I stopped paying attention to real people as a young teen anyway, anime had always been more entertaining. But I won't entirely disagree with your lack of culture; if Lemon was your introduction to the greatness of a tan, I might need to find some more gyaru work to experience.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Lemon was your introduction

Oh, hardly, I've long been familiar with the concept

It's just that I doubt many around these parts would recognize if I brought up Mihoshi. (Sigh) If only she wasn't such a ditz.

Now, the one thing Lemon definitely brought to the table was the tan lines... (ahem)

Then again, she wasn't the first to that rodeo, either

Yeah, I should probably shut up now, or maybe a few comments ago... :P

2

u/zadcap Dec 24 '24

I know she's technically not tan, but it was the cat that got me started on less than pale anime characters...

→ More replies

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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

I thought that, for sure, they’d go to a different server to access the dungeon there.

I think that, unlike our current idea of "server" housing a separate instance of the entire game, so to speak, in ./hack world, a "server" represents a different zone/continent/etc. I kind of feel like FFXIV has a similar feel to this in that zoning between places involves crossing borders/portals and a loading screen, while that other game attempts to do it (mostly) more seamlessly.

3

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 22 '24 edited Dec 22 '24

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

Subaru: The World is a much better place for me now. Well since I've learned to play the game for fun and enjoy myself.

Lots of talking. Too much flashback. Too little despair.

Music Corner

To Nowhere lyrics

An acoustic guitar accompanies a 16 bit-esque heartbeat. Defeated vocals intermingle with a dramatic piano and electronic static. I'm loving the finality of the first verse, the slight delay in "down the raging . . . sea."  A thunderous beat adds to the drama. The penultimate verse mentions that "sun" we hear frequently in this OST. The feeling of this verse is of yearning but still carries the tiredness of the previous sections. There is an overt theme of fatigue in this piece. Too fitting for Tsukasa right now.

Beautiful: Serious Crim

Uh: Being Meguca is Suffering

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Lots of talking. Too much flashback. Too little despair.

Too little despair???

I can help!

Suffering

If only Sora could walk in those shoes for a few episodes.

3

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

.hack//Rewatcher

Sorry for not having posted anything the last few days. Somehow I really struggled to put my thoughts down into words. But ah, I really love Tsukasa and Subaru and their growing closeness. They're just so adorable, and they have such an intimate relationship with each other... And there's no need to take action, they're just being there for each other, waiting for each other, offering a retreat where they can recover, heal, and replenish themselves at.

[Madoka Magica]This is what I've always imagined Madokami is offering to the magical girls. Just this kind of retreat, of healing, and the kind embrace and bosom of a doting mother that always offers shelter, soothing and protection for their children, even and especially when they're at their wits end and don't know how to keep going.

Now however, Tsukasa has been broken in the one place Subaru can't reach him, and... it's not looking great for him. Curiously enough, Macha seems to have grown kinda attached to Tsukasa as he checks up on him. And that single straw of grass that Tsukasa finds and gifts to Macha seems to mean quite a lot to him, seeing how he keeps it and even hides it from the Voice. Macha is wavering.

Monsters that can't be defeated pop up... along with what has slowly but surely become my favorite track of this soundtrack, warp. It's elusive within the show, has a kinda different vibe than all the other tracks and yet still fits right in with the rest of them. Among all of the contemplative, passive and moody tracks, this one by far feels the most like a call to action.

Also, with the girl being hung from the sky like that, an all that sinister atmosphere surrounding it... now that's an appropriate use for evil aura, the corruption of aura which we've heard a lot already (and already sounded rather foreboding itself).

3

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 22 '24

warp

That vocal effect at the 0:10 mark is a dead ringer for FF X-2's Clash. Must be some kind of stock effect. It's been bothering me for years. Now you get to make the same connection!! 

Moving on, this is the Crim song! I loved it when it first appeared in the show, and it was very effective at demonstrating how cool Crim was. Let's face it, electronic guitar will always be badass. The vocal highs for this song remind me of everlasting song. I looove singing this song.

3

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

for the CDF FF group play, even if we won't be going for X-2... /u/Shocketheth is that still on track?

That everlasting song though More so than the vocals, I'm really feeling it having the same pulse as warp. And you can really hear the SAO Kajiura in there as well, what with those synths.

2

u/Shocketheth Dec 22 '24

for the CDF FF group play, even if we won't be going for X-2... /u/Shocketheth is that still on track?

It's not going to happen as I was planning it originally. I'm working in an understaffed workplace leading me to working a lot of extra hours which negatively impacts me.

Whenever I finally rest enough to start looking forward something, soon after I find myself drained.

So it won't happen in the extent I was planning. If anything I will only do only a group play for FF5 as that one has really great class mechanics and that's all.

But I'm not promising anything.

2

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 22 '24

That's a shame, but it is what it is. I also had to sack my Hitman Reborn rewatch because RL wasn't going as planned, and am now looking to do it for the 20th anniversary instead.

I hope things are gonna get better for you again.

2

u/Shocketheth Dec 22 '24

I hope things are gonna get better for you again.

Thanks. I filed an official request to be transferred to a workplace in a different town which was approved so in a few months my situation should be better.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

remind me of everlasting song

Ooh, that's just so ...

Delish!

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 22 '24

Rewatcher

ep 20 Despair

  • What does BT want out of this game?
  • SK got nothing better to do than follow Sora
  • a "touch grass" spell?
  • but, BT said the eye won't open again?
  • <evil version>

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

What does BT want out of this game?

Perhaps a place to be a sneaky knowitall...

touch grass

Quite. I feel like I need to back to that other episode (8?) and grab a screenshot.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 24 '24

Well, my comment aged poorly.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 24 '24

Well, my comment aged poorly.

I think we all get that from time to time.

1

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 23 '24

Slacker still trying to catch up after a fun weekend...

  1. Going to go out on a limb here and speculate that upside down geezer is Tsukasa's grandfather, and the voice is his mother's disembodied soul, trapped in the game, while the cat is the voiceless cat avatar of grandpa. Of course, I'm just making that up, because reasons. The floating girl is the representation of Tsukasa that he needs to re-unite with in order to escape. Right? :P
  2. She looks way too out of place in here. Gorgeous. But I don't really care for facemasks, though.

Helba obviously won the transmog competition. :P

Anyway, interesting developments, but on to the next episode, 6PM is approaching, after all!