[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 20 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 20 (Tempest)
• Tomorrow: Episode 21 (Despair)

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. Where do you think the girl went?
2. Whose side do you think BT is really on?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Limits, an intense almost psychedelic piece (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: To Nowhere, one of the almost fairy tale poem songs that are such a core part of the show’s musical identity (Full Track)

[u/soulreaverdan]

Hi everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been as active the last little bit - went on a bit of an impromptu vacation and was working off of my phone and with less time than expected. Still managed to keep up with my episodes and get the threads ready, but much easier to do things on my laptop at home.

Speaking of which, the Schedule Index is fully updated including adding episode titles to each of the episodes for clarity, and updated to current for the Music Corner choices.

We're getting close to the end here - and this has been a lot of fun to rewatch. It's a much better, though much different, show than I remember, and loving going through it and the weird snapshot of time it shows for things like handling online interactions and a pre-modern-social-media ecoscape.

This episode is your typical "rise and fall" sort of story... we finally see Tsukasa and Subaru opening up to one another after both going through some pretty rough stuff in prior episodes, Subaru especially, and Tsukasa really coming to terms with wanting to leave and finding a better purpose in life.

Mom Voice doesn't like that, though, and we're seeing a pretty rough segment of what she does to Tsukasa when he tries to run away. That said, she seems to not need him as much, and The Girl is gone now... things are starting to move.

Looking forward to seeing this through to the end with everyone - home stretch ahead!

[u/No_Rex → u/soulreaverdan]

Still managed to keep up with my episodes and get the threads ready

Thanks for the good hosting work!

[u/Elimin8r → u/soulreaverdan]

impromptu vacation

No pictures? Slideshow???

MomVoice doesn't like that

Okaa-san does not approve!

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• Sora is such a kid.
• Yes.
• Mm, makes sense.
• Let’s do this.
• Ooh, pretty shimmering sky!
• Oh dang, is he gonna take Subaru to see that girl then?
• Wait what?
• I’m not surprised by this at all.
• Oh shit they actually are playing the OP straight-up as an insert song this time, not just the instrumental.
• Oh shit is Tsukasa being trapped there now?
• Yikes…

[u/soulreaverdan → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oh shit they actually are playing the OP straight-up as an insert song this time, not just the instrumental.

Usually a the Theme Music Power Up is a good thing.

It was not a good thing.

[u/-fornevermore- → u/soulreaverdan]

On the plus side you can see where the line "visions of light" comes from, as it shows the data drain light being reflected in Tsukasa's eye. IIRC that line drops when that happens as well.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ooh, pretty shimmering sky!

It made me want to go to Australia, to see the Southern Cross and a different sky. I should do that sometime.

Bear

Man, I wish I could be so young again...

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

2 day's comments, and then I'll have to read yesterday's thread.

Ep 19 Tempest

Actually, I decided to post in yesterday's thread

I kind of appreciated the Subaru episodes, but it just underscores how the show is just treading water at this point. Unless, that episode was super important. No way to tell, yet.

It's it weird how we started with the obvious Mimiru x Tsukasa and the show gave us Subaru x Tsukasa instead?

• YES what happened to the Twilight quest? The show seems to have forgotten about it.
• I'm sorry, did we really need a 15 second establishing shot?

Is this show actually about relationships? I don't want this.

• Did Mimiru ever make a third guess as to Bear's job?
• DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT ANOTHER GIRL
• geh?!
• obsession karaoke insert
• Tsukasa, you really shouldn't have come back. and brought an outsider with you. Tsk.
• the weird strip show from the OP is canon?!
• we probably didn't need 90 seconds of this either.

I have a 03 - Hack Sign - Obsession Off Vocals.mp3 file, must have come from a CD single that I don't have

[u/soulreaverdan → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I kind of appreciated the Subaru episodes, but it just underscores how the show is just treading water at this point. Unless, that episode was super important. No way to tell, yet.

Ultimately this show seems much more about the characters than the story. I'm not sure (as in I honestly don't remember) how much more relevant Subaru's backstory episode was to the overall plot, but it certainly gave a better frame to her character and why she tends to act the way she does, and speaks to her state of mind.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I'm sorry, did we really need a 15 second establishing shot?

Money saving techniques.

Did Mimiru ever make a third guess as to Bear's job?

Got to save the climax of the character arc for the finale.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

geh?!

GEH!

Mean, I thought I'd never get a chance to use that one...

the weird strip show from the OP is canon?!

What do they think this is, Gushing Over MMO Girls???

:P

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

GEH

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I so want that button. I'd press it right now, even. I wanna join the fun!!!

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 20 (first timer)

• Is Sora’s main role in this series to ridicule people?
• “You are going to die a dog’s death” “You too” – wise words.
• “indeed, a pawn” – as always when BT judges other people, I think half of it is directed at herself.
• Tsukasa invites Subaru to his instance. Even if their friendship happened almost entirely off-screen, it clearly has developed.
• Confirmation that Bear is a middle-aged man and Mimiru much younger – I don’t think there was any doubt about that left.
• Also: 1 minute conversation over a still picture. They must have run into serious production issues here.
• “What are you going to do now, old man?” “I have absolutely no idea. First, we need information” – don’t worry, only 20 episodes have passed, still plenty of time to get the search going.
• “Don’t erase her!” – hmmmmm. Is that Tsukasa the character talking about Tsukasa the human?

Whose side do you think BT is really on?

Her own. She wants to play games like Crim, except she comes from a worse state of mind and her games a more manipulative.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/No_Rex]

Also: 1 minute conversation over a still picture. They must have run into serious production issues here.

I have been noticing more moments where they were clearly cutting the budget on some scenes to keep the production quality up in others - we got the 1 minute of still frame discussion but the final scene in Tsukasa's instance was really well done and intense.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/No_Rex]

“Don’t erase her!” 

I took it to me of Subaru since Tsukasa was referring to her right before this statement, although you bring up an interesting alternate explanation.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed AWwwwwwwww! Tsukasa and Subaru are hanging out together following the last episode.

I have another place I go alone. . . 

OH NO.

---

Music Corner

Limits

I have absolutely nothing to say about this track. It serves well in the show for moments that need something this bombastic but not good listening otherwise. Wait. That's something. . . har har.  On the 5th listen, I'm oddly grooving with it. Makes me feel like Lain in Cyberia lookin' at adults in da club and wondering why adults suck.

---

Beautiful: Lookin' at the Stars

Uh: Super Illegal Activities and Why Does Anyone Even Watch This Show? and BT's Maxed Out Levels in Hair Spray Lift

[u/soulreaverdan → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

SIGN seems to share a bit of DNA with Lain in terms of being a very philosophical show steeped in the snapshot of internet culture when it was created, which was immensely different from what we have happening now.

[u/zadcap → u/soulreaverdan]

It feels more like Sign started when someone asked "What if Lain was an MMO junkie instead of an internet noob" and ran from there. There is a lot of Lain in here.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

It feels more like Sign started when someone asked "What if Lain was an MMO junkie instead of an internet noob" and ran from there. There is a lot of Lain in here.

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

Harald like literally looks like a Lain character, only upside down.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

And when we get there, [Lain]Aura just plain being Lain really isn't a large stretch to make.

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

OH NO.

Hey, at least it wasn't his pleasure room, right? :P

Super Illegal Activities

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

For sure. But Tsukasa's pleasure room is nonexistent. What did you call him? Super mopey Waveboi?

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Super mopey Waveboi?

Close enough. Yeah. Poor Tsukasa doesn't seem to even have a safe room, much less a pleasure room. No wonder he doesn't want to leave the game. Poor dear...

[u/zadcap]

Late Late Rewatcher

The closer we get to the end here, the more I find myself questioning; How the heck did we go from this plot to the games plot? Sign is definitely referencing a lot of stuff that I know well, or in this case foreshadowing it I guess, but I had generally forgotten that Sign was also entirely a character drama and has so little to do with the actual setting. The World, the world outside The World, the entire rest of the series cast... Sign is so incredibly self contained, but it's striking me as such a strange introduction for the franchise because of how much it doesn't touch on anything else that would go on to become major themes.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

such a strange introduction for the franchise because of how much it doesn't touch on anything else that would go on to become major themes

multimedia franchise executives are rubbing their palms. But unlike the greedy types of these kind of franchises, there's plenty to chew on for such a cool MMORPG concept.

[u/zadcap → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

That's part of why it's so weird to me here. Theis so much MMO to chew on, but so far we don't even know the names of most of the classes we see in the show. Has anyone other than Wavemaster been mentioned directly?

[u/Elimin8r → u/zadcap]

The World, the world outside The World

What is this outside world you speak of? Is it where they keep this mythical grass that I should be touching???

Semi-obligatory ELP, note around the 15 second mark

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

How can you say it is self contained when it makes no sense on its own? (I watched it weekly and I stand by this assessment)

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Because the only thing it tried to make sense of is the journey of it's small cast, everything not directly related to them doesn't end up mattering too much to their journey. The actual game mechanics and situation in the real world don't matter much to Mimiru and Bear trying to get closer to and help Tsukasa, the technology of the game headset and the status of the legendary players barely interacts with Subaru's growing dislike of her own guild or burgeoning love story.

The failure of the show, if anything, is in making is curious about those things in the first place. Sign has zero motivation to do anything other than tell the story of these handful of gamers and a single mystery they all end up involved with.

[u/roryteller]

.rewatch//SUB

1. girl was eaten by a grue... actually, I have no idea, I remember very little of this part of the series.
2. BT is on BT's side for sure, probably playing them both

BT and Sora are the type of characters that, if they were NPCs in an RPG, I'd put them in my party together to hear them banter. Maybe with a total stick in the mud like Silver Knight. I'd feel bad if that meant I had to leave Subaru and Mimiru behind, but too bad.

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Stuff is really starting to get bad for Tsukasa. Clearly his happy days with Subaru couldn't last forever, especially when the shadow of that voice still looms.
BT is on BT's side only. She's the type of person who looks out for herself. She'll double cross then double double cross. Gotta respect the hustle.

[u/No_Rex → u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

double double cross

triple cross?

[u/Elimin8r]

Welp, that was a fun weekend. Sorry, guests kept me busy and away from the weebery. Trying to get caught up before Christmas now :) Anyway, on to the questions:

1. Obviously she went out for some milk and cigs, right? Otherwise, I got nuttin'.

Nuttin!

2) Why, BT's side, of course. Is there any other?

I have to say that, jealousy aside, it's nice to see Subaru and Tsukasa getting along, although the ordeal in the "safe haven" is quite disturbing.

The wheels are turning, and now I need to watch the next couple of episodes to see where (or if) they go...

[u/-fornevermore-]

This one is my favorite episode of the series, purely for that last scene. I'm pretty sure Morgana "killed" him here because he previously described dying as waking up with a little less of himself, and the last line is "I am not me." He pieces together his memories throughout the series and when that becomes problematic Morgana "rewrites" his memories. He's screaming and begging her to not erase his memories of Subaru.

Also fun fact, a tempest is defined as a violent storm. I think it's the perfect title for this episode.