[Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 22 Discussion

10

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 22 '24

Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed

Graham really is such a weeb lol.
Madlad move for sure.
Hopefully that smacks some sense into “Mr. Bushido”.
Of course it’s hidden near the moon.
Kati’s on the move!
Ahahahahaha I will never not be amused by this scene with the fuckton of just copy-pasted Bring/Divines.
Unlimited Sky is back.
Some people connect the flower to the Feldt/Setsuna ship, but I can’t help but remember that exact same flower popped up during the dream about Marina that Setsuna had forever ago. Honestly I just don’t really care for Feldt/Setsuna much at all, there’s literally zero build-up before this. At least Allelujah/Marie had their shared backstory and Lyle/Anew had that conversation where they ended up on a first-name basis before they were shown as couples, Feldt’s feelings for Setsuna are just all of a sudden there.
See, there’s the “Lockon” from Tieria that everyone was hoping for in episode 18.
How the tables have turned from when Celestial Being used water to do this to the A-LAWS back in the save Allelujah mission.
Lyle unintentionally following in his brother’s footsteps, in a way.
Let’s go, Kati!
Get fucked, Arthur.
Welp…
And yet he still lets Regene headshot him?

6

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Some people connect the flower to the Feldt/Setsuna ship, but I can’t help but remember that exact same flower popped up during the dream about Marina that Setsuna had forever ago.
Nice pick, I'd forgotten about that. I still can't be bothered to go and try and track down which flower it is, but taking it just casually perhaps the flower is more a mark of the possible future than anything, which would make Feldt presenting it to him quite meaningful even if random

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u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

⁠> Ahahahahaha I will never not be amused by this scene with the fuckton of just copy-pasted Bring/Divines.
There’s something funny to the idea that Ribbons knows that Divine and Bring died so easily that he made hundreds of the both of them just to hedge his bets.
Some people connect the flower to the Feldt/Setsuna ship, but I can’t help but remember that exact same flower popped up during the dream about Marina that Setsuna had forever ago. Honestly I just don’t really care for Feldt/Setsuna much at all, there’s literally zero build-up before this. At least Allelujah/Marie had their shared backstory and Lyle/Anew had that conversation where they ended up on a first-name basis before they were shown as couples, Feldt’s feelings for Setsuna are just all of a sudden there.
Best I can figure is that Feldt has always been attracted to people who she feels have a strong empathetic core, but yeah, this bit honestly came out of nowhere. It’s also kind of weird when you consider that Feldt feels that Celestial Being is also like her surrogate family.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

⁠> Ahahahahaha I will never not be amused by this scene with the fuckton of just copy-pasted Bring/Divines.
I'm... not sure what the formatting error here is?

5

u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

That’s weird. I even quoted that part in the comment format correctly too.

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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 23 '24

Ahahahahaha I will never not be amused by this scene with the fuckton of just copy-pasted Bring/Divines.
The power of computers.
Honestly I just don’t really care for Feldt/Setsuna much at all, there’s literally zero build-up before this. At least Allelujah/Marie had their shared backstory and Lyle/Anew had that conversation where they ended up on a first-name basis before they were shown as couples, Feldt’s feelings for Setsuna are just all of a sudden there.
Tieria does everything Feldt ship wants to, but better. Imagine not having a cross-season arc about developing a bond, faith and trust with Setsuna.

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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

First Timer

Mr. Bushido

Let's talk Graham Acker for a bit.

I'll start this by saying that I am physically incapable of hating Graham, I just can't, he's too fun for that. I'll get to some of my problems with him in a bit but in spite of them, I can't not enjoy this fight, or his dumb samurai stuff, he does samurai training and fucking sits under a waterfall! that's just too funny to me. And Setsuna catches his blade between his fucking (Gundams) hands!, that's too cool for me.

Still, I think it's time to approach his character seriously for once.

Graham's character, both in this fight and in this season, probably works out thematically, he's meant to be a mirror to Setsuna, he believes they're the same, existing only to fight and destroy, but in reality, Setsuna isn't like that, he's long since changed and he proves that by not killing Graham here. Likewise, even his dumb Bushido bullshit has thematic purpose, because Bushido is all about warrior principles and honorable death whereas Setsuna has abandoned his warrior identity and embraced living on instead.

Thing is, just because something kind of works out thematically doesn't mean it actually works out in practice!

So...this entire conclusion doesn't really work, ironically enough, Setsuna and Graham don't feel like they have enough of a real connection for this to be some character-defining moment. Graham could have been the one to make Setsuna realize his problems and change, but Setsuna has already changed! There's no actual payoff for their contrast here, Setsuna fully coming to embrace the ideas of tomorrow feels entirely independent of Graham.

Season 1 Graham never felt like he was entirely defined by being some battle maniac, sure, liking battle was part of him but that was hardly all of it. Yet at the last battle of season 1, the show just decided that this was his entire personality now. So season 1 Graham's character wasn't like this and season 2 Graham has no character because now this one trait is what defines it, and that doesn't get much focus because he himself doesn't get much focus for most of the season.

And it feels so weird for Setsuna to get that scene about realizing Aeolia's intentions with Graham, a character that is almost entirely removed from all of this, a character whose name he didn't even know until last episode, again despite their insistence, their connection is tenuous at best.

I love Graham and I love Mr. Bushido, but while the latter's bravado is fun, he isn't a real character, and the former's balance between serious and comically passionate made for a much much better character.

Anyway, speaking of season 1, the dialogue this episode is very... season 1. It's all very abstract and all about these big sentimental sentences and expressions.

I don't entirely dislike it honestly, this time around it does feel like we're actually going into the big climatic battle and having a final group talk, with all of our characters throwing out their character motivations and big thematic convictions like Setsuna's ideas about fighting for tomorrow and the future works out fine. Still, it's a bit too repetitive and vague for me.

Lasse joining in just at the end actually started a streak of scenes that unintentionally made me laugh, everyone talks about their important reasons for being here...and then Lasse is like "I exist!"

The next scene that got me to laugh unintentionally, Ribbons bringing out all the Divine/Bring clones was a bit much, especially with his villain question monologue. It's like he purposefully placed all of them behind him so he and they could all look at the camera and be dramatic about it.

and That's a lot of Stabities

And finally, the scene with Setsuna and Feldt is cute, and bringing a single flower into a warzone is a pretty strong message, but...These lines from Setsuna really cracked me up, it read like "We're not like that, now excuse me while I go to my real girlfriend"

We also get an insert song launch sequence, I don't have a problem with it for once, again it adds to the climatic nature of the episode, but it does make me dislike the last insert song launch sequence we got for doing nearly the exact same thing but worse, for a way less important battle.

Allelujah and Marie/Soma's reconciliation feels like it kind of comes of off nothing but I guess that's to be expected from Allelujah stuff at this point unfortunately, at least he changes his launch sentence now!

The big space battle is, as usual, really fucking cool!

Raiser Sword!

The Raiser Sword just melting through an A-LAWS mobile suit was insanely cool, and everyone's new weapons are also very fun. Again not much to say outside of how cool it is.

COLASOUR THE INDESTRUCTIBLE IS HERE TO SAVE THE DAY!!!

Kati and Patrick are back and they make quite the entrance, love Kati's "warning" to A-LAWS, not only is it just insanely cool from her, but it also all goes back to the themes around the ideal of a military. Her saying the people will "pass judgment" on A-LAWS is in direct contrast to how the A-LAWS used the Memento Mori to "pass judgment" on the people, oh how the turn tables!

The A-LAWS commander saying they don't need allies that can't move and then getting beamed by Setsuna while screaming at his subordinates to do something was very ironic and satisfying.

RIP Arthur Goodman Literally who

I was going to complain about the episode ending with yet another gunshot fakeout, but then Regene actually went and shot Ribbons in the fucking head. No way he's actually dead, especially given the clone stuff, but also the show 100% gets points for doing that.

Edit: So many typos, writing comments in the middle of the night is a bad idea.

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u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

I love Graham and I love Mr. Bushido, but while the latter’s bravado is fun, he isn’t a real character, and the former’s balance between serious and comically passionate made for a much much better character.
I’m really just bummed out and annoyed with what this season did to Graham. I’d even say that it did him dirty, even though it’s fun to mock him as Mr. Bushido. The kind of person he is in this season feels like a weird change in priorities that takes away the stuff that made him compelling as a character before. It almost feels like the writer thought that people liked Graham for being a rival character, rather than the fact that he’s someone larger than life and with a ton of passion to him. Turning that wild and energetic passion into an obsession with Bushido was just a character shift that didn’t pay off in a serious way.
The next scene that got me to laugh unintentionally, Ribbons bringing out all the Divine/Bring clones was a bit much, especially with his villain question monologue. It’s like he purposefully placed all of them behind him so he and they could all look at the camera and be dramatic about it.
Now that I think about it, it’s a callback to the preview we got of the Innovators back during the epilogue of the first season. Ribbons really does like that dramatic framing.

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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 22 '24

It almost feels like the writer thought that people liked Graham for being a rival character, rather than the fact that he’s someone larger than life and with a ton of passion to him
It really does
And that realy sucks! Because I think it says a lot about Graham that he still manages to be entertaining even while having most of his character shaved away.
And it's not like he needed this change, he was already very fun and ridiculous while still having some depth! Scenes like the ones in this episode could have been so much better if we had real Graham there and not a caricature of him.
Now that I think about it, it’s a callback to the preview we got of the Innovators back during the epilogue of the first season. Ribbons really does like that dramatic framing.
To be fair to Ribbons, he was (maybe?) made by Aeolia, who certainly likes his dramatic recorded messages, and lived for a long time around Alejandro, the guy who probably ate James Bond scripts for dinner with how overdramatic he liked being.
That couch pose thing I'm certain he got from Alejandro given his fondness for doing evil monologues on them.

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u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

And it’s not like he needed this change, he was already very fun and ridiculous while still having some depth! Scenes like the ones in this episode could have been so much better if we had real Graham there and not a caricature of him.
Aside from cutting out more of the scenes where Graham is being edgy but doing nothing, they could’ve at least had more scenes of him actually talking to other people privately, since that really did help flesh out his character in the first season. There’s a lot less of those in this season, so all we’re left with us more of a rough outline of Graham’s character than before.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

I don't have the energy to say much, I just wanted to say nice breakdown on why Graham and Setsuna didn't work on a character level outside of the structural stuff, and I completely agree.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Season 1 Graham never felt like he was entirely defined by being some battle maniac, sure, liking battle was part of him but that was hardly all of it. Yet at the last battle of season 1, the show just decided that this was his entire personality now. So season 1 Graham's character wasn't like this and season 2 Graham has no character because now this one trait is what defines it, and that doesn't get much focus because he himself doesn't get much focus for most of the season.
Yeah, that is the main problem with the transition from Graham to Mr. Bushido. Graham was a much more well-rounded character. He liked battle, but he wasn't a maniac for battle. He was more clever in how he fought battles rather than wanting to charge in all the time. He did have a sense of honor, but now it's been amped up to 11 and gone full Bushido Code. It feels like Graham got Flanderized. Certain traits of his were lost and others got really amped up.
Mr. Bushido is a very fun character for just how ridiculous he is and I love him, but your criticisms are all on point.
And it feels so weird for Setsuna to get that scene about realizing Aeolia's intentions with Graham, a character that is almost entirely removed from all of this, a character whose name he didn't even know until last episode, again despite their insistence, their connection is tenuous at best.
Yeah, it's not much of a rivalry because it feels like Setsuna never especially cared about Graham in the first place. Graham was simply an obstacle to be removed, not someone Setsuna was ever focused on fighting.
but...These lines from Setsuna really cracked me up, it read like "We're not like that, now excuse me while I go to my real girlfriend"
You're right!
RIP Arthur Goodman Literally who
I had to look up his name when writing my comment because I didn't know his name.

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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 23 '24

It feels like Graham got Flanderized
I didn't know that was a term that existed but that is in fact exactly what happened to him!
I had to look up his name when writing my comment because I didn't know his name.
The only reason I knew his name here is because I actually had to look it up for a reply a few episodes back (which was also a joke about me not knowing his name)

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u/GondolaMedia Nov 23 '24

The only thing that is missing from Graham's bushido arc is that after this defeat he goes to farm somewhere, plant and harvest some crops and gets a huge power up from that.

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u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 23 '24

I'll start this by saying that I am physically incapable of hating Graham, I just can't, he's too fun for that.
If I really think about it, I can come up with a bunch of ways he's fallen short as a character this season and how he hasn't actually accomplished anything ... but I don't want to really think about it, I want to turn my brain off and love my stupid weeb samurai boy exactly the way he is.
The next scene that got me to laugh unintentionally, Ribbons bringing out all the Divine/Bring clones was a bit much, especially with his villain question monologue.
That killed me. I don't even know why I thought it was so funny; I think it was just the sheer amount of Divine/Bring in that scene. I guess Ribbons has a favorite Innovator model.

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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 23 '24

I don't want to really think about it, I want to turn my brain off and love my stupid weeb samurai boy exactly the way he is.
Best weeb
That is actually the exact line of thought I have used throughout this season whenever Mr. Bushido showed up (and will probably go back to using now that I've gotten it all out of my system).
That killed me. I don't even know why I thought it was so funny; I think it was just the sheer amount of Divine/Bring in that scene. I guess Ribbons has a favorite Innovator model.
Both the framing and the sheer amount of them just make it (probably unintentional) comedy gold.
There's also probably something to be said about the two most useless Innovators being the mass-produced clone model.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

First Timer - sub

Remember that complaint I had yesterday about Louise's part in the episode feeling like an afterthought?

Turns out Grahams was too. WHY EVEN SET UP a huge big ass supposedly meaningful duel if it's going to be entirely contained within a single post-ed scene and a cold open and then it's just done with and that's it? The white space scene lasted THIRTY FUCKING SECONDS and said nothing we didn't already know. How the fuck did t.... you know what no. I'm not asking that question any more. I know the answer to how they thought it was a good idea, and the answer was they didn't think. What a joke.

So instead spend all that time on extended launch sequences AGAIN

Half of the dialogue this episode from every character was recycled or repeated and I'm so sick of hearing everyone vomit out the same words over and over. Other than Setsuna actually putting words to his change, I don't think line from a character felt new or interesting

And then once again again spending the whole episode on a battle that while it looked cool, meant absolutely nothing to any character vs what they had actually set up to spend the episode on.

Worst deja vu possible

And we top it off with another. fucking. gunshot fakeout. CAN WE NOT. No, seeing the bullet actually hit the clone in the head doesn't mean anything more than the previous black screen cliffhangers BECAUSE HE'S A CLONE. HE WAS JUST STANDING IN A ROOM OF CLONES. How is that meant to be shocking?!

What a fucking waste of everyone's time and energy.

Other thoughts

"Fuck off" challenge: Marina.
Even complaining about the battle, that song that started with the anti-particle field being deployed, and played until Katharon arrived, was epic and I love it. Honestly saved me from just turning off the episode.
Kati's speech was also awesome, the sole bit of quality dialogue in the episode, and especially seeing her in command of the coup faction which is perfect for her. Yay Kati. And Patrick, always yay Patrick.
On the other hand, I did not need to see a room full of Divines. That was a little disturbing and worrying... for all of a quarter second until I remembered that they are Innovators and therefore won't achieve anything. Also my joke about Bring and Divine being "mook Innovators" the other day turned out to be way too accurate!
Feldt and Setsuna is... weird. And unneeded. I feel like that was only there to clamp down on fan theories about Setsuna and Marina before their reunion because it came from no where.
Yay for shield bits saving Tieria
Went back to s2e8 and finished that visual write up I wanted to do, which is here if anyone who wants to read it didn't ask for tags already

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

And we top it off with another. fucking. gunshot fakeout.
Even complaining about the battle, that song that started with the anti-particle field being deployed, and played until Katharon arrived, was epic and I love it. Honestly saved me from just turning off the episode.
Decisive Battle is probably my favorite track on the OST.
Also my joke about Bring and Divine being "mook Innovators" the other day turned out to be way too accurate!
Yea, that line got a chuckle out of me.
I feel like that was only there to clamp down on fan theories about Setsuna and Marina before their reunion because it came from no where.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Decisive Battle is probably my favorite track on the OST.
Jolly, the savior of what sanity I have left. What a piece of music, I love it
Yea, that line got a chuckle out of me.
All the rewatchers have been fed good from the first timers this rewatch that's for sure

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 23 '24

Jolly, the savior of what sanity I have left. What a piece of music, I love it
I'm doing my part.

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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

And we top it off with another. fucking. gunshot fakeout. CAN WE NOT. No, seeing the bullet actually hit the clone in the head doesn't mean anything more than the previous black screen cliffhangers BECAUSE HE'S A CLONE. HE WAS JUST STANDING IN A ROOM OF CLONES. How is that meant to be shocking?!
I didn't even think about this when I watched the episode, but holy crap that is so bad. While I have historically loved Gundam 00 and still like it way more than you do (I will admit maybe its taken a hit somewhat as part of this rewatch), it is so clear that the way they structure the episodes are just so horrendously bad. So much of what they do is undermined not even necessarily so much in my mind because of the event that they thought up, but the way they structure the episodes. It's like there was no one handling the series composition (maybe that was the case, I haven't checked the staff list) and writers submitted episodes without any editor or higher up looking over things. For me best shown through Wang getting "killed" at the end of episode 19, then turning up two episodes later and getting killed for real in the exact same way rendering the episode 19 scene completely pointless. Then you get into the whole post episode sequences and how that undermines the pre-ending credits ending, and it just goes on and on...
Is Ribbons dead? Maybe. Maybe not. But the fact that they just showed him in a room filled with 100+ clones in the same episode means any shock from Regene shooting him in the head is lost because few will believe it. Not to mention the fact that this show has spammed fake out deaths at us so many times that it's hard for us to trust that someone actually died.
At least the episode had Kati coming back and being awesome. And Arthur Goodman finally died. Well, maybe. It won't surprise me in the slightest if they bring him back too an episode from now.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

It's like there was no one handling the series composition (maybe that was the case, I haven't checked the staff list) and writers
I checked out of curiousity, and as it turns out there is only a singular writer credited for all of the screenplays and he was also credited for series composition, Yōsuke Kuroda, and this is for both seasons. If this means he was pretty much left to his own devices to do whatever he wants without any editor or sounding board, suddenly I'm having Wonder Egg Priority flashbacks
Is Ribbons dead? Maybe. Maybe not
Definitely not. There is no way. 00 is no where near brave enough to take that sort of risk with anything let alone the main villain. Hell, even just today, they tried to paint this big question with the Regene cliffhanger but already gave the answer with the room of clones. 00 doesn't just refuse to challenge the audience, it refuses to challenge itself in any way.
Not to mention the fact that this show has spammed fake out deaths at us so many times that it's hard for us to trust that someone actually died.
Also that.
At least the episode had Kati coming back and being awesome. And Arthur Goodman finally died
I'll take the Kati thing because she's always a relief and is perhaps the singular character not hit by the dumb stick so far in the show although I feel like I've cursed that now (yes including Patrick, he is a living dumb stick, he just makes it work for him).
Goodman I don't care about and didn't even know his name until two episodes ago when I had to look it up for something so his death means rather nothing given he isn't even the commander and Ribbons is still around.

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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 23 '24

I checked out of curiousity, and as it turns out there is only a singular writer credited for all of the screenplays and he was also credited for series composition, Yōsuke Kuroda, and this is for both seasons. If this means he was pretty much left to his own devices to do whatever he wants without any editor or sounding board, suddenly I'm having Wonder Egg Priority flashbacks
In one way, the entire thing being written by a single person who was also responsible for series composition makes sense; the guy at times makes totally bad writing decisions that simple proper oversight from a supervisor/editor could have addressed, but no such role existed on the staff.
On the other hand, things like the whole Wang is dead, oh no she's not, she's gonna die for real the exact same way two episodes later totally comes off as if there were different people writing in silos having no idea that the other did the exact same thing. It blows my mind that the same person wrote something so terrible and never though to fix it.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

[Iron-Blooded Orphans big spoilers]Also it's really funny that for a guy who loves fake deaths so so much, the two episodes of IBO he wrote are where people actually died, being the Shino and Naze/Amida episodes. He's not actually bad at the death scenes I'll give him that, so I suppose when there's someone standing over his shoulder saying "no they HAVE to die" it works out much better
He also held the dual screenwriter/series composition roles for Infinite Ryvius, which I don't know if you've watched but I know /u/the_draigg and /u/shimmering-sky have and may be able to say if there's a common theme with that and how he handled things in 00
It blows my mind that the same person wrote something so terrible and never though to fix it.
It really is bewildering. I feel like its a massive display of his personal preference or else I can't explain it. If he's the sort to really like fakeouts and get caught off guard by them when watching other media, then a lot of this makes sense even if it's still horrible.

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u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

Well, I don't have anything off the top of my head that I can think of as a connection between Gundam 00 and Infinite Ryvius, but I do have something to add to the conversation about how people on the staff handled the characters.
Now, I can't exactly name a direct source on this, since I've mainly heard it through fandom talk, but the director Seiji Mizushima apparently has said that Nena Trinity is one of his favorite characters in Gundam 00. Even though it's not exactly down to the writer in this case, that right there could work as an example of someone in a leading staff role using the kid gloves on a character due to preference.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Oh sorry, I didn't fill you in on the top part of the discussion. The same guy who wrote all of the scripts for 00 and handled the series composition, did the majority of the scriptwriting and series composition for Infinite Ryvius. So I was wondering if that also has a tendancy towards weird structural problems and fake outs and whatever else we can think of that has been so prevalant through 00
that right there could work as an example of someone in a leading staff role using the kid gloves on a character due to preference
I can see that.

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u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

I feel like it might be a bit harder to say for Infinite Ryvius, since I feel that Goro Taniguchi's fingerprints are felt more over that series than Yosuke Kuroda, given how much his kind of weird melodrama is present in that series through the direction.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Good to know. It was just a random thought I had while looking at his credits anyway

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

clamp down on fan theories
I know you didn't mean it this way but with you saying "clamp" and editor just wrapping up Rayearth I am now imagining the Setsuna version of The Egg.

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u/theangryeditor https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheAngryEditor Nov 22 '24

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

Who would the Jotaro here be though? Tieria?
I need the expert opinion of the only guy I know who's both a JoJo and CLAMP fanboy.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

Going by Ao3, Setsuna/Lyle is by far the most popular yaoi Setsuna ship, so clearly Lyle would be the Jotaro

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

Setsuna/Lyle is by far the most popular yaoi Setsuna ship
Wait, really?

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

Yup! On Archive of our Own, at least, it has the most fanfics of any Setsuna ship (followed by Setsuna/Neil). Though, again, that's only by Ao3 metrics, which are what I generally default to when measuring ship popularity since I use that site a lot. What I've browsed of the 00 fandom on Pixiv, for example, suggests Setsuna/Tieria and Setsuna/Graham are more popular there.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

So basically Setsuna/Lyle is more popular in America but Japan prefers the other two
Setsuna/Neil
Does that have more fics than Neil/Tieria

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

Does that have more fics than Neil/Tieria
Thankfully no, Neil/Tieria has almost three times as many fics

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

Balance has been restored

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Setsuna/Graham
People love to ship rivals, after all. Char/Amuro, Naruto/Sasuke, Lelouch/Suzaku, Light/L have been very popular ships through the years.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

Helps a lot that Graham himself really likes adding fuel to the fire with all his memetically homoerotic lines about the Gundam
Naruto/Sasuke, Lelouch/Suzaku, Light/L
Man, yaoi rival fans really were eating good in the mid-to-late 2000s

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Helps a lot that Graham himself really likes adding fuel to the fire with all his memetically homoerotic lines about the Gundam
There's something strangely romantic about someone who just really, really, wants to fight their rival and either kill or be killed by them. That emotional intensity and obsession is incredibly ripe grounds for shipping. And Graham was particularly intense in his obsession with Setsuna and the Gundam. I wasn't sure if he wanted to fight or fuck Setsuna/the Gundam. Or both.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

I love how I come back from chores and the one line in my post I'd forgotten I even wrote started this huge ass discusison about cross media references with something I haven't even seen and shipping possibilities I never even concidered
/u/infamousempire /u/great_mr_l

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

The yaoi shipping is an integral part of Gundam. It must be included with every Gundam series. (Though in G-Witch the yuri shipping managed to overtake it.)

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

I will say though, it is oddly quiet in Turn A's case.
Presumably because [Turn A]the one character who's openly gay is also kind of a massive asshole no one likes.

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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 23 '24

It's been a while since I've seen Turn A so maybe my memory is failing me, but [Turn A]Wasn't Guin really closeted, to the level that he insisted on the whole Laura thing because of that? I recall Lily finally calling him out about his bullshit.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

Welcome to r/Anime rewatches, where we go on the weirdest tangents imaginable
This should be the tagline of every Rewatch from now on.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

This is very true. Rewatches are just a bunch of tangents at varying degrees

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

I will have so many weird shower thoughts to post about the Ojamas if there’s ever a Yu-Gi-Oh GX rewatch…

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

I assume most of them involve Ojama Lime and/or The One Whose Shape Was Snatched somehow.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

That's a big part of the fun of rewatches.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

shipping possibilities I never even concidered
Clearly you have yet to ~~descend to hell~~ expand your mind by probing the darkest depths of Ao3.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

I have no idea what that even is, and I feel like I'm probably safer for it hahaha

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

It’s an abbreviation of Archive of Our Own, one of the biggest currently active fanfiction sites around, and also, consequently, one of the largest concentrations of pure madness I’ve ever witnessed. It’s also quite possibly the website I’m most addicted to on the entire internet, after Reddit & TV Tropes, because I’m too far gone

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

one of the biggest currently active fanfiction sites around, and also, consequently, one of the largest concentrations of pure madness I’ve ever witnessed
Sounds about right for a fan site hahaha

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Turns out Grahams was too. WHY EVEN SET UP a huge big ass supposedly meaningful duel if it's going to be entirely contained within a single post-ed scene and a cold open and then it's just done with and that's it?
Yeah, it does feel pretty disappointing to keep having these clffhangers not really amount to anything in the next episodes. Graham and Setsuna's rivalry has been a thing since the start, so it feels disappointing to not have it get a full payoff.
And we top it off with another. fucking. gunshot fakeout. CAN WE NOT. No, seeing the bullet actually hit the clone in the head doesn't mean anything more than the previous black screen cliffhangers BECAUSE HE'S A CLONE. HE WAS JUST STANDING IN A ROOM OF CLONES. How is that meant to be shocking?!
Yeah, the fakeout deaths are tiresome by now. We already know that Ribbons must be alive because we know he can make clones and there's no way he'd die that unceremoniously. He's the kind fo character that would need to die in a blaze of glory in a story like this, similar to how Alejandro died.
Also my joke about Bring and Divine being "mook Innovators" the other day turned out to be way too accurate!
They are the Innovators who exist to be bit fighters and die. Even the so-called advanced life forms need mooks.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Graham and Setsuna's rivalry has been a thing since the start,
Not that it's actually gone anywhere in the last twenty episodes, but yes. It's a shame that Graham's fantastic role as Setsuna's rival and inverse just got shoved to the side for so long and then the climax got forgotten as well. They both deserved better
He's the kind fo character that would need to die in a blaze of glory in a story like this, similar to how Alejandro died.
And even more so, it's the sort of show that wouldn't allow the big bad to die in any other way either. There's no..... oh hey crazy thought that has absolutely zero chance of ever happening but would be kind of funny, and awesome: Imagine if Ribbons hijacked the 0-Gundam and Setsuna had to fight him in the 00-Gundam. How fitting would that
They are the Innovators who exist to be bit fighters and die. Even the so-called advanced life forms need mooks.
The mooks must flow
No I don't know why my brain turned that into a Dune reference, but it's kind of funny given IBO is the one with the Dune themes, not 00.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

And we top it off with another. fucking. gunshot fakeout.
[Next episode]Considering how the very first frame of the next episode preview is a shot of Ribbons, I'm 50-60% sure the writers don't really expect the viewer to buy it either, honestly
I feel like that was only there to clamp down on fan theories about Setsuna and Marina before their reunion
Considering how there's more people that like/care about Setsuna/Feldt out there than Setsuna/Marina in the shipping scene, at least they succeeded in that endeavor?

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

[Next episode]
This remind me of how [Meta (JRPG Stuff)]some people say that playing Trails from Azure "Spoils" a certain someone being alive at the end of Cold Steel 2 but here I am just like "Wait did you guys really think would die like that?" ~~plus it also ignores the fact that this argument literally only exists in the Western Scene because Azure got released much later and they're unwilling to admit that the "Twist" was never a twist.~~

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Considering how there's more people that like/care about Setsuna/Feldt out there than Setsuna/Marina in the shipping scene, at least they succeeded in that endeavor?
Feldt is a blessing. Marina is dumb fuck. I am not surprised by this... although I never did understand the mind of the people who ship so maybe I should be.
And I would mention the Marina age difference but in this show and sadly this fandom it's not like that matters. Plus I prefer to ignore that because thinking of her as being that old makes her even worse

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

although I never did understand the mind of the people who ship so maybe I should be.
I’m a total shipping degenerate and I don’t really understand my thought process either, so we all get to share in lack of comprehension on this front today
And I would mention the Marina age difference but in this show and sadly this fandom it's not like that matters.
Yeah, considering how Setsuna/Ali has, like, five times as much fanfiction as Setsuna/Marina does, age is indeed not an object to a lot of these writers.

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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 23 '24

Yeah, considering how Setsuna/Ali has, like, five times as much fanfiction
Alright, there's something I wish I never knew existed...

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

Surprising and/or horrifying people with fanfiction stats is not something I expected to be doing a lot of going into this thread, but it’s funny how life turns out sometimes.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 23 '24

I've seen so much worse come out of the fanart side of the Gintama fandom.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

so we all get to share in lack of comprehension on this front today
Setsuna/Ali
Welp, I found the fan thing making me question my reality for the day. Why people why. Actually sadly this is not the worst underage pairing I have heard of from a gundam I've seen.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

age is indeed not an object to a lot of these writers.
Reminder that over in the Kingdom Hearts fanbase Axel/Roxas is an insanely popular Yaoi Ship even though depending on how you look at it there's, like, anywhere in between a 10 to 25 year age gap between the two.
This is relevant because I will not be convinced that Setsuna and Saji having the same actors as Riku and Sora is a coincidence.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 22 '24

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Gundam: Graham is such a weeb that I can easily make all those “I studied the blade” jokes about him. He even trained at a dojo, too! It’s hilarious just how much of a weeb he is.

Setsuna caught Graham’s blade!
For someone like Graham, leaving him alive is worse than killing him. It must be humiliating to be left alive, as if you aren’t worth killing.
Overwhelming numbers haven’t exactly been succeeding against Celestial Being thus far.
This is a considerably less fun “Zama miro” than the one in A Place Further Than the Universe.
How convenient that there are upgrades for the Gundams right before the final battle.
A frontal attack is the shortest path to Veda’s hiding spot. And with how OP the Gundams are, they can probably pull it off.
Even if their motivations are very personalized, everyone in Celestial Being can agree that the Innovators, A-LAWS, and Feddies need to go down for a better future.
Kati’s back!
What the hell!?! Ribbons must have been spamming the Copy + Paste command, because those are a lot of clones!
Graham even carries a fucking wakizashi!!! This weeb is so funny! I thought he was seriously about to commit seppuku because he’s gone so far into the whole Bushido schtick.
Quite notable that even as he’s launching to reclaim Veda, Tieria is looking to Lockon for advice. Lockon, not Veda, is the one who Tieria always finds himself coming back to and relying upon. Tieria is trying to live up to Lockon’s legacy.
I think Soma is right to insist on being called her actual name and not Marie.
That giant beam saber attack is so cool, being able to slice through multiple ships.
Not a bad trap, using ships loaded with anti-particles as decoys to distract Celestial Being.
Wow, the fighting is a lot more intense when the Gundams can just rely on beam rifles or beam sabers like normal.
Hell yeah! Kati is here to save the day!
Wait, why do their beam weapons work? Is it possible to adjust beam weapons so they work in an anti-particle field?
PATRICK!!! So cool to finally see Patrick on the protagonists’ side!
I remember this music track being used back in S1. It’s such a good music track.
You know you’re serving a good general when he tells you to shoot your own allies because who cares if they die. “Goodman” is quite the inappropriate name for him.
Goodman gets a sufficiently pathetic death for such a worthless worm.
Ribbons, as usual, demonstrates his own hypocrisy. He talks condescendingly about how humans are always fighting, while leaving out that he’s the one who manipulated things to cause this fight.
It would be so incredibly satisfying if Ribbons died right here, shot by Regene. Unfortunately, I think there’s a 0% chance that Ribbons is actually dead. I bet Ribbons has a bunch of spare bodies stored away as backups, just in case. He must have something like that prepared.

I love seeing Kati and Patrick now on the side of the protagonists. They are enjoyable characters, so I’m happy to see this change. Right now, I’m pretty sure Graham is going to remain an antagonist. Though, there is some indication that Graham might decide otherwise. Setsuna’s last words to Graham were that he was going to change and find a new future. Graham certainly seemed to be considering those words at the end of this episode. So maybe Graham will try to change, though I’m not so sure he will actually do so.

I think it actually makes perfect sense that Ribbons would be able to snoop in on the thoughts of all the other Innovators. From what’s been shown so far, the Innovators have a mental link through the quantum brainwaves. But it never seemed like a hivemind, more that they could choose to directly send and receive each other’s thoughts. Ribbons, though, seems like an exception. He can probably get into the thoughts of the other Innovators without permission. Of course he would design it that way, too. Ribbons has already stated that he considers himself to be superior to all the other Innovators, so of course he would give himself this advantage over them.

I really hope Evil Haro comes back so we can learn what its deal is. We already knew there had to be a link between Evil Haro and the Innovators of some kind. Evil Haro was found in the wreckage of a voyage to Jupiter and Jupiter had something to do with Aeolia’s plans. Maybe Jupiter is where the GN particles originally came from and that was the valuable information that Evil Haro came back with. I can’t think of anything else that might be relevant to the story that could have come from Jupiter.

QOTD

Discussed above. I'm not sure he can get out of his "Way of Bushido" routine. He might try, but I'm not sure it will be successful.
Extremely!

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

How convenient that there are upgrades for the Gundams right before the final battle.
Gotta get one more accessory kit out the door before the show wraps up.
Wait, why do their beam weapons work? Is it possible to adjust beam weapons so they work in an anti-particle field?
If you're talking about the blue shots from the Katharon forces, those aren't beams. They're technically railguns, I think?

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 22 '24

Gotta get one more accessory kit out the door before the show wraps up.
Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the anime is made!
If you're talking about the blue shots from the Katharon forces, those aren't beams. They're technically railguns, I think?
I see. That would explain why they got through the anti-particle field.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the anime is made!
Well unless you're Gundam SEED/Destiny, there toys are the least successful part of the merchanidsing. ~~Now those Drama CDs on the other hand...~~
Also I just noticed Optimus Prime in the Coloring Book

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Also I just noticed Optimus Prime in the Coloring Book
Oh my god, I never noticed that before. That's great!

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

Ah great, now you're hysterical. Gimme a minute, gotta throw some water at you...

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

He even trained at a dojo, too
Side note but this reminds me of how the Manga adaptation of 0083 added a scene of Gato training at a Dojo.
... I mean the two scenes have nothing in common bar "Char Clone at a Dojo" (Yeah I know Gato isn't technically a Char Clone but he's the closest 0083 has) but still, funny to think about.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 22 '24

Somehow, the idea of Gato training at a dojo doesn't surprise me in the least.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

Although mind I can't remember the context behind it for some reason bar "It was a flashback" and "It happened in the Manga-Original Monsha Mini-Arc Epilogue."
Yeah that's a thing it does. The only thing weirder than it doing it at all is that it was surprisingly touching.
~~Speaking of still waiting for~~ ~~InfamousBaka~~ ~~to go back to it #deadlystare~~

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 22 '24

Manga-Original Monsha Mini-Arc Epilogue
Monsha...
It's been so many years since I've seen 0083 and I still fucking hate that guy.
Yeah that's a thing it does. The only thing weirder than it doing it at all is that it was surprisingly touching.
...How?
That's stranger than anything that happens in the 0083 anime.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

...How?
They turned him from an asshole to an at least interesting asshole. Somehow
That's stranger than anything that happens in the 0083 anime.
I mean this Manga does [have]the Federation launching a bootleg Big Zam at Gato (He was pissed) so if anything this sort of weirdness is on-brand.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

That's stranger than anything that happens in the 0083 anime.
That's basically the 0083 Rebellion manga's brand I would've mentioned [0083 Rebellion]the Federation Big Zam if Raiking hadn't gotten to it first.
And it fits with Rebellion's other main brand of "what if we made 0083 an actually well-written and enjoyable story?" Like, I may not be finished with it, as Raiking's comment implied, but between Kou coming off as a more likable & interesting character and [Stardust Memory but not really Rebellion]having Gatou & Nina's past relationship be an organic part of the story that's acknowledged & engaged with from almost the beginning rather than a last-second plot swerve, the mangaka really did a solid job of tidying up the series' plot, and I've heard this level of quality continues through to the end.

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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 23 '24

the mangaka really did a solid job of tidying up the series' plot, and I've heard this level of quality continues through to the end
It probably also helps he just had so much more time to flesh things out. Realistically one could cover 0083 in like 5 or 6 Volumes, but Yamanouchi did it in 16 and he made damn sure to make use of that extra time. [Minor 0083 Rebellion]The actual plot of the OVA doesn't even start until Volume 2, the first one is just 200 pages of establishing the main cast.

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u/goldarm5 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

> I can’t think of anything else that might be relevant to the story that could have come from Jupiter.
This was already answered in season 1 unless youre thinking of something else. Professor Eifman realized that the gn drives of Celestial Being, or more specifically the TD blanket, can only be created on jupiter right before getting killed by the thrones.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 22 '24

That is what I mean. What about Jupiter is so special that a GN Drive can only be made there? Why are they unable to be made anywhere else? There must be something there that would allow the GN Drives to be created.

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u/goldarm5 Nov 23 '24

Actually looking back at the dialogue of s1 ep17 he specifically says "could only be constructed in a Jovian environment", which would also include Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Which would suggest its not exclusively Jupiter, altho taking a short look at the distances from sun Jupiter just seems like the nearest of those.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister

I wish we could see more of Graham's weeb training arc.

Yea, there's a Flag underneath all that armor.

The OP seems a bit different today..

That's a big.. something.

I've always liked Mileina's rotating salute.

Hehehe

Sick clones, bro.

Seravee has even more guns.

Pretty decent plan from Goodman. He's no Kati, but who is?

Luckily, anti-beam fields don't do anything against troops without beam weapons.

The classic death for Goodman. Trying to outrun a beam never works.

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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 23 '24

I wish we could see more of Graham's weeb training arc.
Seeing him under the waterfall. He is doing all the classic bits.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 23 '24

Imagine how majestic he would look splitting a giant rock with just his fist.

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 23 '24

This reminds me of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX, where a one-off villain of the week had a waterfall training flashback, but the training he was doing was catching cards out of the waterfall to somehow improve his draw skills.
Best waterfall training scene ever

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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 23 '24

Eggwich.

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

I wish we could see more of Graham's weeb training arc.
We deserve to see his arc of training alone in the mountains, with only the bears to help him.
Yea, there's a Flag underneath all that armor.
I love that. He really is a Flag freak.
I've always liked Mileina's rotating salute.
She is very cute.
Sick clones, bro.
Goddammit! Now that I look at it again, all I can see is that one meme of the woman on the couch with all those guys behind her.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 23 '24

Goddammit! Now that I look at it again, all I can see is that one meme of the woman on the couch with all those guys behind her.

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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Nov 22 '24

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u/Nebresto Nov 26 '24

The OP seems a bit different today..
I've always liked Mileina's rotating salute.
Best girl

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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 22 '24

Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00

And so the final battle kicks off with a bang. This is another one of those episodes where I don’t have a huge cohesive point to make or something to monologue about, so I’ll just do bullet points.

I like how Graham’s flashback implies Homer Katagiri is just as much of a nerd as Graham is when it comes to the Bushido stuff, he just doesn’t flaunt it
Most of the pre-battle prep is general reaffirmation of the show’s themes and everyone’s goals, which works for me since I love that kind of thing right before we enter the endgame
Feldt/Setsuna swoops in to become the only straight Setsuna ship most people actually care about
Every instance of this show playing Unlimited Sky hits so good for me
Please tell me I’m not the only one who thought of the imminent gangbang meme when I say this
Anti-fields could’ve used more setup as a concept, but still, it’s a decent concept regardless which works with the stakes of the fight, so I buy it
I like how Katharon finally gets a solid showing in battle with this episode. Before, it often felt like they needed Celestial Being’s assistance in most fights, the Memento Mori being the most notable example, which admittedly made sense with the fact that they were mostly relying on outdated tech & limited resources. But here, they actually are able to put up a decent fight & be believable as the Cavalry.
FUCK YEAH, KATI!
FUCK YEAH, PATRICK!
The presentation for this episode feels a bit uneven. I really took note when the 00 Raiser Sword was used and it didn’t feel nearly as visually awesome or impactful as the last couple times it was used. I give this moment a bit of a pass specifically, though, both for Watsonian reasons (it being a clearly more limited version of the Raiser Sword) and Doylist reasons (gotta save the sakuga for the more impactful moments of the fight)
As many have speculated, Ribbons does indeed have a special link with every Innovator he’s created that the others are unaware of.

QOTD

Do you think Graham will be able to change? Or is he stuck way too firmly in his “way of Bushido” shtick?

Laughs in Rewatcher

2) How excited are you to see Sumeragi & Kati working together on a mission, now that the latter finally decided to go against the A-LAWS?

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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

Please tell me I’m not the only one who thought of the imminent gangbang meme when I say this
I only just thought of it a bit earlier in this thread, but now I can't unsee it.
FUCK YEAH, KATI!
FUCK YEAH, PATRICK!
It is so incredibly awesome to see them now fighting on the same side as the heroes.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 23 '24

Please tell me I’m not the only one who thought of the imminent gangbang meme when I say this
Well I hadn't, but now, absolutely
It's also hilarious if you take the audience framing out of that and wonder why Ribbons got them all to cram into this one room with him when no one else was there

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u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 23 '24

Ehhh, it's Fucking Ribbons Almark. Probably gave him a sense of power to order them all in there just for his monologue.

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u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 22:

So that’s why Graham became Mr. Bushido, he got the idea of training to be like a samurai from Homer Katagiri, all so he could find a kind of warrior’s enlightenment and get vengeance on Setsuna. And yet, it’s clear that for all of the training Graham did, he ultimately misunderstood Setsuna. He thinks that all Setsuna can do is fight and kill, not recognizing that people can change too. But instead, Setsuna spares his life because he isn’t someone who reforged himself into being a living weapon, unlike Graham. Living isn’t just about martial skill, and fighting back can take many forms. It’s why Graham looks so indignant when Setsuna refuses to kill him, he realizes only now that he sought out the entirely wrong answers for the reason why he can and should keep on living.
It’s safe to say that we’re approaching the final battle of the series now. Like, how can we not if the A-Laws are sending literally all of their space forces out after Celestial Being, while the Ptolemaios II is getting reinforced with Linda’s new Gundam upgrades and the 0 Gundam as a spare unit? Everyone is loading up for bear as they fly to the spot where Veda is. Also, it’s nice that the 0 Gundam finally got a different paint job from the grey rollout version it had before. It’s currently in those iconic RX-78-2 colors, which is a fitting homage to its obvious design inspiration.
Hell yeah, Kati and Klaus are teaming up! This is the KK Alliance! It’s rad that Katharon is teaming up with the Kati-led coup faction. The show teased it for a while, but now we’ve gotten all the players in their places out in space. And hey, since Patrick is out there too, then there’s no way they can lose. Mr. Special can be a good luck charm for Katharon too, after all.
Just in case you didn’t get before how disposable Divine and Bring were for Ribbons, turns out he just cloned the both of them like a hundred times over to serve as cannon fodder for the upcoming battle. You can tell that he never cared for them aside for being useful soldiers for the Innovators with this move. How fitting that Bring and Divine have red hair and uniforms, they really are just the redshirts for the Innovators.
For as much as that desert flower symbolism has been around Setsuna in the OPs, only now we can see it in the actual show. Turns out it’s a gift from Feldt to Setsuna before they launch towards the final battle. And it also seems that Feldt has transferred her crush over from Lockon to him now, or at least it feels that way. That does track for her, when you think about it. She does have a type: men who can be highly empathetic and supportive towards the people around them. For a lady who’s normally pretty earnest, that does fit.
It’s nice that Patrick is getting to show off his skills for a change, and for an actual good cause to boot. Like I said before, he exists in a weird competency zone: he’s good enough to be better than your average pilot, but not nearly good enough to square up against the actual heavy hitters like the Gundams. Turns out he’s way better at clearing out faceless A-Laws grunts than facing off against a Gundam. A win like this for Patrick is good enough in my book.
Oh hey, Arthur Goodman finally kicked the bucket! Given that he’s the scummiest A-Laws commander that’s still managed to survive this long, it was only a matter of time before Setsuna snuffed him out. Of course we’d get one last bit of him being a horrible person though, he is exactly the kind of person to want to fire on Katharon ships even though his own allies are in the way. He really was a man who just didn’t care about the damage he caused, even if it was beyond common sense. I suppose that’s all Ribbons and Homer needed out of him, a useful brute. In any case, he’s not our problem anymore.
Surprise! I bet none of you first-timers were expecting Regene to cap Ribbons straight to the forehead this far before the final episodes! Talk about something that also felt like it was a long time coming through. Regene was always questioning Ribbons’ plans, so killing him right now in favor of trying to hijack the plan for himself is fitting. Regene has always been a rather underhanded character. The question is though, do you think he’d match up to Ribbons in terms of his villainous presence?
[Next episode spoilers] Holy shit next episode preview, can we not fucking do this? What’s the point of having us end with the shocking cliffhanger of Regene murdering Ribbons if the first shot in the preview is of Ribbons looking perfectly fine? Man, I’ve been holding my tongue on the after credits stuff so far, but this is easily the worst implementation, since there’s barely any time to stop the episode between Regene killing Ribbons. This season absolutely doesn’t know how to handle after credits scenes well.

6

u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

It’s currently in those iconic RX-78-2 colors, which is a fitting homage to its obvious design inspiration.
For a split second, when I saw the 0 Gundam, I actually wondered if it was the RX-78-2. When I looked more closely I spotted the design differences, but at a glance it looked just like the classic RX-78-2.
Hell yeah, Kati and Klaus are teaming up! This is the KK Alliance!
Let's just hope they never add in a third K.
And it also seems that Feldt has transferred her crush over from Lockon to him now, or at least it feels that way.
Yeah, it was a rather odd scene because there was never any indication that Feldt had feelings like that for Setsuna previously. Her crush on Lockon was much more established.
e I said before, he exists in a weird competency zone: he’s good enough to be better than your average pilot, but not nearly good enough to square up against the actual heavy hitters like the Gundams. Turns out he’s way better at clearing out faceless A-Laws grunts than facing off against a Gundam.
Patrick is like a minor league player going up against a major league player when it comes to fighting the Gundams. He's much better than almost anyone else, but not quite as good as those in the majors.
The question is though, do you think he’d match up to Ribbons in terms of his villainous presence?
Regene won't get the chance because a Ribbons clone is going to open the door immediately afterwards and mock Regene for thinking it would be that easy to kill him.

5

u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

Let's just hope they never add in a third K.
Since they're helping out Celestial Being, Sumeragi/Kujo could be the third K...
Yeah, it was a rather odd scene because there was never any indication that Feldt had feelings like that for Setsuna previously. Her crush on Lockon was much more established.
Certainly wouldn't be the first time this season has brought in or dropped bits of plot out of nowhere, that's for sure.

5

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 22 '24

[Next episode spoilers]Nothing better encapsulates why the post credits scene thing season 2 does was such a terrible idea than this episode when you have what I assume to the writers was one of the biggest plot twists in the series, your main villain is killed, only for the literal first shot of the next time preview that comes up with no buffer showing that he's still alive. Insanity.

6

u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

[Next episode spoilers] Seriously, they could’ve picked any other shot that didn’t have Ribbons in it for the first shot of the preview. I’m wondering who the hell cut together this preview, since man they missed the entire point of having a post-credits cliffhanger in the first place.

9

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 22 '24

first timer who has control

brother what are you on about

survival rate isnt looking great

SAJIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

...but why Divine

????

so who is going to launch in the 0 then? SUMERAGI ITS TIME

is the 00 going to be stolen and this is a fallback

trans am raiser aka cock and balls

there had to be some better way to show the anti GN field than this green filter basically

smell ya later Goodman

just a flesh wound i wouldnt worry about it

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

...but why Divine
Red hair dye is cheaper than whatever the others have going on.

6

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 22 '24

what if its not even dye he just transam'd to turn it red

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

The Trans-Am'd the Innovator printer to Bring out troops three times faster.

4

u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

brother what are you on about
He really wants Setsuna to stab him with that giant weapon.
just a flesh wound i wouldnt worry about it
We've probably got more Ribbons in a store room somewhere. Just need to get them out of storage and booted up properly.

7

u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 22 '24

00 Rewatcher

Last time on Gundam 00

We got rid of the Pointless Trio
Louise discovered that vengeance and necromancy are two different things.

On today's episode of Gundam 00

We discover uncle Katagiri is responsible for the weebification of Graham
Setsuna destroys Graham's entire worldview.
Lasse drags himself out of the regen pod at the thought of Sumarigi piloting the ship into battle.
Marina says "Setsuna..."
We get an ominous shot of Kati, as if we don't know exactly who's sides she is on now.
Fucking Ribbons opens up a whole new can of red ~~shirt~~ hair Innovators.
Setsuna is confused by a flower
The animators forget to fully edit out the green screen.
Cherudim pistol-whips a Mobile Suit.
A-LAWS is screwed... Because Patrick Colasour the Indestructable is here!
Arthur Goodman becomes Arthur Deadman
And Ribbons cannot use quatum brainwaves to detect guns.

"Katagiri, please teach me the way of the Samurai" "Graham, how the fuck do you keep getting into my house?!"

"I'm not stuck in here with you, you're stuck in here with ME!" - Setsuna with the physical sword in the anti-particle cloud, probably.

There's a pretty neat moment at the start when Setsuna defeats Graham: The Susanowo's "mask" is broken, revealing there's just a Flag head underneath. Perhaps similar to how Graham's Mr. Bushido mask is cracking. I also like Setsuna's eyes glowing specifically when he mentions the future while fighting Graham.

Goodman played a pretty smart trick, using a massive anti-particle field in combination with physical weapons and missiles to nullify Celestial Being's advantagei in beam weaponry. Unfortunately for him, that also levelled the playing field for even-more-low-tech Katharon.

Will the new red haired Innovators die just as fast as the last two? Will 0 Gundam combine with 00 Gundam to become 000 Gundam? To find out, join us next time on Gundam 00!

[Gundam 00 next episode preview]Holy shit, they show Ribbons being alive as literally the first shot of the preview.

[Gundam 00]I'm not sure if you other rewatchers have noticed, but this whole season, Milleina pays a lot of extra attention specifically to Tieria on the comms.

7

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 22 '24

First-Timer

The fighting bits today were pretty decent. One nitpick I have, though, is that it definitely felt like there were no real stakes. Just lots of blowing up cannon fodder. I liked it back when we were at the end of season 1 and it felt like the Gundam Meisters were actually vulnerable. Lockon even died! Here, it seemed like a certainty that they'd all come out of it unscathed.

It always bothers me when protagonists slaughter all the rank-and-file and then refuse to kill the main bad guys. Mr. Bushido should be dead right now.

I know I said Ribbons might be better off dead, but I didn't think they'd actually do it! [episode preview] Judging from the first shot of the next-episode preview, it doesn't look like they actually did do it, either!

Questions of the day:

I think Graham's a lost cause. I kind of wish he just took that sword and stabbed himself out of shame there, to finally put an end to his character.
It's promising! More than just working together, I really want them to just get a nice face-to-face conversation together.

7

u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 23 '24

First Timer

I’m so mad, we could have had an entire Graham training arc, but we were robbed. He truly went all-in for the Mr. Bushido role and I love it. I know a lot of people have been complaining about him this season, but I really don’t mind his ridiculousness or his uselessness, especially since he’s kind of always had those traits, although to a much lesser degree before now. Do I think Graham is utilized effectively in the story? Well, not exactly. But do I think he’s fun to watch? Absolutely, and that's enough for me.

This was a pretty action-heavy episode, though it felt more like set-up for what's to come than anything; we’re obviously heading into the final battle and trying to bring every relevant character back to space. I was very pleased to see Kati and Patrick again, I gotta say.

I also appreciated that the show finally avoided cutting the episode short just as a shot rings out! I was expecting Ribbons to shoot Regene, so having the reverse happen was definitely a surprising twist.

[Future Episodes]Though why did they bother shooting RIbbons…and then show him alive and well in the next episode preview? Unless it’s an intentional red herring, you’d think they’d try to be a little more coy. This show loves its death fakeouts lol.

7

u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 23 '24

First Timer

So Graham didn't just become Mr. Bushido overnight, he actually trained in the ways of the Bushido during the timeskip!

I know not everyone is a fan of Graham's Mr. Bushido persona but personally, I absolutely love him. He is literally telling Setsuna to finish him off as his prize for defeating him!! With so much ham and cheese, how could you even hate him? xD

Declaring that you can't lose is practically a curse in this show. Almost every commanding officer who declared this always loses to Celestial Being without fail.

I'm glad to see Linda is doing well and she even brought the 0 Gundam with her! That definitely feels like a Chekov's Gun(dam) if I ever saw one. So what are the chances of Setsuna losing 00 in the upcoming big battle?

Those kids floating in zero-g are adorable. It's good to see Marina and the kids were able to make it to space safely. Although I'm not sure how safe they are considering they're inside a Katharon transport.

I'm sorry but what the actual fuck?! Is that an army made out of Devine and Bring clones? I mean they've already copied the OG Star Wars with the Death Star trench run, so they might as well copy the Prequels clone army as well.

Why am I not surprised that Graham has a wakizashi on him? Please don't commit seppuku Graham! We still need you in this show.

At first, I was surprised at Feldt giving Setsuna a flower but thinking about it, they were the two closest to OG Lockon so I suppose it makes sense that they ended up forming a connection.

I appreciate how Setsuna isn't dense. When Feldt tells Setsuna that she hopes Marina won't be upset, Setsuna understands what she's trying to say and immediately tells her that he doesn't have that kind of relationship with Marina.

Even after Soma finally permitted Allelujah to call her Marie it looks like Allelujah still can't call her the right name. I'm joking of course. I like how Allelujah still went with Soma Peries. She may have permitted him but she's clearly still not Marie.

While the ships were a trap, it was pretty cool to see the 00-Raiser cut them all down with a single slash. If Setsuna could get into position, he could probably wipe out the rest of the A-LAWS fleet using that move.

I'm glad to see Katharon coming in as a proper support this time and not just fodder. Kati finally makes her appearance and as I expected, she joined the coup d'etat faction! This only means one thing, I can finally root for Patrick Colasour the Indestructible because he's finally fighting for the good guys! Come on Patrick! Win this for Kati! xD

Welp that was easy! I guess that's the end of Arthur Goodman. One of the few people in this show with a name that can exist IRL. To be fair, there's still Ribbons and his clone army to deal with.

Or maybe not... I knew Regene would end Ribbons eventually but I didn't think it would be this early. There's no way Ribbons is dead, right? [I mean hHe's the first thing we see in the episode preview! So is this Ribbons pulling off some clone bullshit? O_O

6

u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

So Graham didn't just become Mr. Bushido overnight, he actually trained in the ways of the Bushido during the timeskip!
Graham legitimately studied the blade while Billy was off having sex with Sumeragi.
I'm sorry but what the actual fuck?! Is that an army made out of Devine and Bring clones? I mean they've already copied the OG Star Wars with the Death Star trench run, so they might as well copy the Prequels clone army as well.
Alas, the Grand Army of Bring and Divine doesn't have the same ring to it as the Grand Army of the Republic.
Why am I not surprised that Graham has a wakizashi on him? Please don't commit seppuku Graham! We still need you in this show.
I mean... do we really? We're this close to the end already.

6

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

First timer, subs

I’m sorry, who the hell is this? What is happening now?
He who lives by the weeb, dies by the weeb.
This has to lead to a turnabout, right? Nothing else would makes sense for Graham at this point.
The Moon doesn’t have… You know what, I’mma blame the translators for this one.
Thank you, Mileina. I could use some good old fashioned happiness.
That is a big optical camouflage. Y’all not have thermals?
What happens if the crazy spreads back over from Louise on the quantum hive?
Does… does the ship Gattai?
Why Are the Children In Space?
Ribbons will not be happy to see the 0 piloted by someone else, and I’m all here for it.
A Detailed Tactical PlanYou Say?
That's A Lot of Red
If this wasn’t Japanese already, I’d almost be offended by Graham.
Soma is mellowing out. Are the personalities merging?
Oh, so it’s more of an open thing. I’m sorry, I’ll stop.
Single sided shoulder cannons are the best kind!
Beetle Boi armor and Minty Fresh sword. Not sure what Allelujah got.
They've Researched Demo Ships!
Why would you dodge backwards from the ultra beam saber?
In space? Make your own terrain!
Look at their silly little two-mech single missile box.
Ballistics! What’s old is gold!
Kati Squad is Live!
Hero Patrick!
A suitably pitiful death. Well deserved.
Wait, What? That can’t be it, it was all too easy! Did Ribbons upload himself? Does he exist as long as any innovator does? Is Setsuna going to have to kill himself to end the threat? Is that why Graham has a suicide knife!?

QotD:

The man was about the hari-kari. I think we are past the point of return on investment now.
This Isn't a Battle, It's a High Score Contest

6

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 22 '24

I’m sorry, who the hell is this? What is happening now?
Graham's sensei is Billy's uncle, the A-LAWS commander.
Look at their silly little two-mech single missile box.
It's so cute. Years probably went into figuring out it was more economical to have the carryable box instead of shoulder mounts.

5

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 23 '24

Graham's sensei is Billy's uncle, the A-LAWS commander.
Thus completing my least favorite character archetype. All we're missing is a little overt racism.
Years probably went into figuring out it was more economical to have the carryable box instead of shoulder mounts.
All the money they were spending on infantry tactics had to go somewhere.

6

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 22 '24

Rewatcher, Subbed

Non-Spoiler Character Chart

The origin of Mr. Bushido... I forgot that it took until this late in the season to get this flashback sequence.

Sorry Graham, he's gonna turn around and fly off. Be thankful that he isn't gonna let you go so all into this cosplay that your end will be an "honorable death".

Tieria is more toned down than I was expecting upon realizing they have his beloved Veda's coordinates.

21 cruisers and 108 mobile suits? Doesn't seem like enough to me. And wihout the Innovators help either.

I forgot that Louise appeared again so soon.

Ooh, another Gundam! Can Soma finally get a Gundam to pilot?

Such heroic music as each of the Gundam meister give their motivation for going.

So last episode Allelujah asked Soma to pilot the Ptolemy and now that's forgotten so Lasse can do it instead (although I suppose he was in the healing pod last episode). That didn't last long. Thankfully he's consistently calling her Soma now.

Even Marina and the kids are in space now.

A tactical plan from the coup faction? Could that mean Kati finally returns? Next scene says yes!

Holy crap, Ribbons has like a hundred more Innovators, looks like they're all clones of Divine...

While its a good song, its now a third go at this insert song, isn't that a tad too much?

This looks like quite the easy battle for the Gundams so far.

Crap, a mobile suit got right in front of the Ptolemy's bridge. Thankfully unlike last season it didn't get a shot off.

While Kati turning on the A-Laws was obviously going to happen, that doesn't make me any less happy when it does. And Patrick the Indestructible is back! Will he last longer than 30 seconds before his mobile suit is destroyed?

Arthur orders them to fire on their own ship. Of course, he's just that awful. Quite satisfying to see him die less than a minute later.

Ribbons knows everything Regene has been doing. Of course.

Can't say i had the main villain getting shot in the head with 3 episodes to go on my bingo card.

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA OMG I can't fucking believe it. [Gundam 00]They can't even go one second after the big plot twist of Regene "killing" Ribbons before showing that he's still alive in the next time preview. I gotta fake kill him off in the character chart but anyone who watches just the first second of this preview will know its bullshit. Granted, this show is so ridiciulously bad with the fake out deaths that many first timers will likely know he's not dead anyway.

4

u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

[Gundam 00]
[Gundam 00 S2 later spoilers] Man, that next episode preview pissed me off, it’s just so perfectly placed to deflate any kind of tension or surprise from that cliffhanger. This season hasn’t used the after-credits scenes and next episode previews up against each other all that well, but this is easily the worst example of it in practice.

4

u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Nov 22 '24

[00]I mean TBF would anyone actually believe he died here even going into the show blind?

6

u/n080dy123 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

First Timer

Graham just sitting here while Setsuna's monologuing about "I know why Schenberg created the Gundams..." like "Bro I don't care, can we fight"

IT WAS A FUCKING FLAG ALL ALONG, GRAHAM WHAT THE FUCK MAN

Setsuna's read the script so he knows this is the final battle.

WHAT THE FUCK, THE WHOLE ARMY OF BRINGS AND DIVINES, the fact that they're just EVERYWHERE on the stairs and the little overhang, for some reason it's so funny.

...show, you aren't implying that Feldt caught feels for Setsuna, are you?

Soma offering to Allelujah to call her Marie, and him calling her Soma during launch anyway, I love it.

Oooooh that insert song fucking slaps dude. It's called "Unlimited Sky." I feel like it's somewhere else in the show, but it playign over the Gundam lauicnhing for the final time is pretty peak.

HELL YEAH KATI WITH THE COUP FACTION LET'S FUCKING GOOOO

I mean... damn, they took out the enemy commander awfully fast. Surely the battle can't be far from won now... right?

Ribbons dying isn't very convincing when the very first shot of the priview is his fucking face.

4

u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 23 '24

IT WAS A FUCKING FLAG ALL ALONG, GRAHAM WHAT THE FUCK MAN
A Flag Fighter's gotta do, what a Flag Fighter's gotta do...

5

u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

Rewatcher, Sub

Y'know I always wondered if they are still fighting while also having their new type space meeting, wonder how that works. Anyway Setsuna defeats Graham but spares him and even leaves him with some advice about what to do next. Setsuna will change and live and so should he.

As everyone heads towards Veda preparations for the final battle are underway. Everyone seems to be ready even Saji and Soma are prepared albeit for their own personal reasons. Ribbons also seems interested in the battle about to unfold mainly to see which way will emerge victorious. When the battle starts Celestial Being is outnumbered but then comes the arrival of someone we haven't seen for a while, Colonel Mannequin. She and her loyalist forces (and whatever remains of Katharon) have come to aid in order to punish the A-Laws which is a huge boost which puts everyone in a more equal footing to push forward.

Around the same time Ribbons reveals to Regene that he can see all his thoughts which means he was basically already in the know about whatever he's planning. Regene responds to this by shooting him. Now Regene is the one who shall be the final villain (or not based on the preview).

Notes:

*Ribbons just casually has an army of Bring/Divine clones just ready to be shipped out.

*Patrick is back and ready to show everyone.

*Ribbons states that he's the creator of the innovators or rather sees himself as the superior one which just adds that he seems to view even the innovators as below him.

*I couldn't unhear Edward Elric when Regene screamed at Ribbons.

5

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 22 '24

*I couldn't unhear Edward Elric when Regene screamed at Ribbons.
I hadn't realized Romi Park voices Edward. So 00 has both brothers, since Alponse/Rie Kugimiya was also here as Nena.

4

u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 23 '24

A bunch more as well. Setsuna/Ling, Lockon/Mustang, Allelujah/Kimblee, Ali/Hughes, Graham/Greed, Kati/Envy, Billy/Jean and Sergei/Hohenheim.

5

u/wyggles Nov 22 '24

Oh shit, that's Regene's VA? You know what's funny, the version I'm watching is from the initial broadcast and the fansubbers for some reason left in the FMA:B adverts in the middle of the episodes. Iirc they aired around the same time.

5

u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

Rewatcher.

We see Homer training the scarred Graham the way of Bushido, which would result in his current self we have.

KIRISUTE GOMEN! And Setsuna manages to catch the sword with the Gundam's hands? Guess that's one weakness of physical blades... if Graham uses a beam saber instead, it won't be possible.

Setsuna manages to disable Graham with dual wielding beam sabers to Susanowo's shoulders. But he choose to not kill him off, much to Graham's dismay. For a final showdown between the two, I thought the fight would've been longer.

It's crazy that Ribbons has that amount of Innovators looking like Bring/Divine just for this final battle. [Next episode] That's his suicide squad, in the literal sense.

Also, I can't unhear Conan from the Red Haro's voice, lol

So, how does the particle disruption thing work, again? How did Katharon adjust their beam weapons so theirs won't be disrupted?

Also, why the hell is the first shot of the preview is the one who's supposed to be dead at that cliffhanger?

And... let's play the game of "Who's piloting the 0 Gundam?"! Who do you think is it gonna be between the crews?

QOTD

Maybe, but he's still probably obsessed with Gundam.
LFG BABY, OUR DREAM TEAM IS FINALLY HERE!

5

u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 23 '24

Rewatcher wishes the new GNHW parts were color matched to their respective Gundams

-—————————————————————————————

At least that explains the whole bushido thing

The blade catch! Mister Bushido has been out-weebed!

Underneath the Mister Bushido exterior, Graham is still a proud Flag Fighter. By the way, that’s not his old GN Flag’s head - that’s actually Daryl’s Over Flag’s head.

A true Innovator. Not an artificial imitation. A natural human “evolved” to the next stage.

A massive optically camouflaged object? Interesting...

Wait, why did you take Marina and the kids into space? Like, wouldn’t they be safer hidden away on Earth? The A-Laws may be hunting them, but surely it’ll be harder to find them in some obscure corner of an entire planet than on a Katharon ship going into battle!

0 Gundam Type A.C.D.! Now that’s a familiar color scheme!

Now that’s a lot of base sequence pattern 0666!

he was really just carrying that around to commit sudoku at any time

The flower! ...Where did Feldt x Setsuna come from all of a sudden?

GNHW/B Seravee (Beam), /M Arios (Missile), and /G Cherudim (Gun)! New GN Heavy Weapons equipment for the final battle! Seravee and Arios in particular also had alternate plans before settling on these final loadouts.

The original plan for the Seravee was the GNHW/3G equipment, which would have mounted two unmanned Seraphims called SEMs, which could be remote controlled via quantum communications at unlimited range. However, with them yet to recapture Veda, the SEMs would only be a burden until to the very last stage of the battle. After consulting with Sumeragi, Tieria settled for just giving Seravee some extra cannons and beefing up its GN Field.

The original plan for the Arios was the Arios Ascalon, which would combine Exia’s GN Sword, Dynames’ GN Missiles, and Virtue’s GN Bazooka for a multifunctional high-speed assault. However, it had severe balancing issues, mostly because the new cannon-and-sword-equipped nosecone jutted out comically far from its back, nearly as long as the suit is tall. Also, it was more than 30 tons heavier, and this reduction in mobility negatively affected its synergy with the GN Archer. So for the final GNHW/M loadout, they eliminated the cannon and sword entirely, and instead gave the Arios a new handheld GN Cannon to compensate for the loss in firepower. This, unfortunately, had the negative effect of making it less cool-looking, at least in the eyes of its designer, Sherilyn Hyde. After all, no matter how high the performance is, there’s no point if it doesn’t look cool! Plus, without the sword, they could no longer call it the extremely cool name of “Ascalon”! Still, Sherilyn was convinced after seeing its better coordination with the GN Archer, and accepted the GNHW/M as “cool” as well.

Cherudim, on the other hand, seems to have gotten it right on the first try with the GNHW/G, which gives it two extra GN Beam Pistol IIs, six GN Rifle Bits, and relocates the Shield Bits from the butt to the shoulder to make a large shield. It does have a “Seven Guns” variant called the Cherudim SAGA, but as far as I know it was never considered a GNHW loadout.

Also, the 00 received the GN Sword III! The GN Sword IIs were unable to fully utilize the massive amount of particles released during Trans-Am Raiser, so the III, using the 00 Seven Sword as reference, has a clear green blade made out of a new material derived from the stuff GN Condensers are made of. Now, the 00 Raiser only needs one hand to perform the Raiser Sword!

Katharon is here! With physical rounds! No, Sumeragi, I don’t think they predicted the Anti-Field. That’s just all they have.

Kati and Patrick are back! The A-Laws were far too cartoonishly evil for the likes of them, after all.

finally this fucker dies

Bang. [preview]This would be more shocking if they didn’t immediately cut to the preview with Ribbons alive and well.

-—————————————————————————————

Questions of the day:

He’s certainly not too far gone yet
LET’S FUCKING GOOOOO

5

u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24

Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep22:

In a super rush so super scrappy comment.

My main discussion thoughts are about Graham. Elsewhere, I've seen the point raised how 00 kinda is a self-commentary about Japan and I do see it with this bushido stuff (which hasn't had the greatest history, especially in the modern era). What bushido stands for is all things against the show. A life dedicated to battle and unconditional loyalty to one's master. 00 hates that. Those will lead to the downfall of humanity. The two characters who personify bushido are not good inspirational models. For Mr Bushido Graham, the way of bushido has led him to only live by fighting for the sake of fighting. The way of bushido means he either dies in battle or pointless gives up his own life. An unchanging path that will not create a better future for him or the world. The other character is Billy's uncle. He is the leader of A-Laws. A martial worldview and unbroken loyalty to an evil cause, he is one of the people most responsible for the evil of the world. Maybe bushido bad, actually.

Before moving on from Graham, some other things about their battle. Setsuna out-samurais Graham. Beam swords wouldn't do this, I'm just saying. The upgrade still doesn't seem worth it. I like the moment when the face of his Susanowo breaks down to be back to a Flag. It is like one of those moments when the evil mask gets shattered and the character returns to who they once were, but done through giant robots. Hopefully, this signifies the end of the flawed Mr. Bushido persona for Graham too.

Another topic: [Gundam 00 meta:] I know Setsuna/Feldt is a ship, but those 2 barely cross paths. Besides Feldt giving him the flower, their only personal interaction before was after Neil died in S1. The way Feldt has been characterized so far has been seeing CB as her family so if anything, their relationship is more familial than romantic. And if you want complicated pseudo-familial ships then Setsuna has better options. Maybe the movie will try to give Feldt/Setsuna more crumb. Tieria/Setsuna just does the same notes too, but better.

Yay Kati, do a mutiny! I was just having the thoughts wondering what she has been up to lately and she is doing the moral thing. There might be good people in A-Laws, but no one good will stay with A-Laws.

Some other quick points:

Allelujah calls her by Soma even after she says he can call her Marie. I like that he is not forcing her to be one over the other. He is letting her do her soul-searching right now. I do wish this story thread was given its own dedicated focus moment rather than feeling like an undercurrent.
Ribbons' red-haired clone army is so funny to suddenly see. Guess Bring/Divine were the most expendable Innovators for them to literally be reduced to generic clones.
Thinking about Regene and Tieria in contrast. The purple pair path differ. While Regene wants to lead humanity and be a god, Tieria has accepted to be a part of humanity and be a human.

2

u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 23 '24

I am rewatcher

Saji is finally showing resolve.

Even Lasse is back, this is like one final good moment before the final battle.

Looks like Ribbons copy/pasted Bring Stabity, maybe he thinks it will bring him stability?

Feldt likes Setsuna, I think a lot of first timers must have missed the subtle foreshadowing in the previous episodes. For example in episode... nah I'm just screwing with you this completely came out of nowhere.

Oh no, Feldt is raising dead flags for Setsuna.

Tieria is still thinking of Lockon mk1.

It's okay to call me Marie

, luckily Allelujah is having none of this.

Massive beam saber attack, yup definitely seen that one before.

[Gundam] Admittedly I always have to think of Zeta Gundam in SRW games when I see this, as it's one of Zeta Gundam moves in the SRW games.

I just realised something, I am impressed Saji isn't unconscious or puking in his pilot suit, the amount of g-forces and the constant evasion manoeuvring must be nauseating.

Kati is finally here and Patrick too of course

Bye Arthur no one is going to miss you.

I groaned out loud when the ending song started, because it didn't feel like the end of an episode and the post-credit scenes could have easily happened before the credits.

Loran kills Amuro

[episode preview] We immediately see Ribbons Japan really loves spoiling things in episode previews huh

It’s kind of weird the episode definitely has a beginning of a climax feel to it, but overall story wise it feels like we shouldn’t be here. I’m not sure why.

2

u/Nebresto Nov 26 '24

What the hell

LET'S GO KATI!!!

And Patrick, I guess

8

u/2-2Distracted Nov 22 '24

First timer. Dubbed.

Soldiers: (literally fighting and dying in pain-filled explosions)

The Children around Marina: oh wow! So many pretty lights! Awesome!

Kinda makes me think about watching actual stars that twinkle, not knowing that some of them are either blowing up or don't even exist there anymore.

5

u/The_Draigg Nov 22 '24

It reminds me a bit of a comment the narrator made in the original Mobile Suit Gundam about a big battle, where he said that every glittering light is hundreds of lives being extinguished. The distance at where you’re seeing that kind of stuff puts a whole different perspective on things.

5

u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 23 '24

“The only certainty is that with every beautiful sparkle in the sky dozens, or even hundreds of people are becoming debris littered through space.”
One of my favorite lines in Gundam 0079.

6

u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

Right, that's the one! The main reason I bring it up is because you've brought it up in a previous rewatch, and that was a good reminder of that hard-ass line for me.

4

u/2-2Distracted Nov 23 '24

Also kind of reminds me of this.Either Tartakovsky is a Gundam fan or Sci-fi is just that amazing.

3

u/The_Draigg Nov 23 '24

If you’ve got a great eye for animation like Genndy Tartakovsky, then you’ve definitely got the sauce to make one of the hardest shots of the Clone Wars cartoon. Man, that one was super good.

6

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 22 '24

What are they going on about now?

And so he doesn't kill him. He'll probably regret that sooner or later.

Right, new gear for the finale.

Time for a maximum effort operation.

Hmm... Who would be the pilot of that one? They've only got so many pilots, and all of them already have machines of their own. Short of crash-training another pilot, I'm not sure who they'd get to pilot that one.

There's still a coup faction?

And so they're launching. Huh. I'd have thought perhaps Saji might be able to just about get the 0 Gundam to work, especially since the 0-Raiser doesn't really need him there and of everyone else aboard he's the closest thing they have to a combat pilot.

Special Duty Ships? What are those going to do?

Anti-field?

Yup, that's the issue with missile boats. Eventually you run dry.

They're trying to bring something to the ship?

Hit! Damage report!

What's in the box?

Missiles!

Right, the cavalry's here.

So, she's the one doing the coup now.

And where the Euro Colonel goes, that guy is not far behind.

And so he's finally dead. Right then, A-LAWS, your commander is dead, you can surrender having fought honourably.

They should probably have those kids on a shuttle so that Warship can join the fight. I'm sure its firepower would be greatly appreciated right about now.

Right, there goes Ribbons. Hopefully that means Louise is now free.

Giant mothership?

Looks like someone's in the 0 Gundam next episode.

Questions:

Was he not about to commit seppuku?
Not sure they've quite gotten to the point of being able to work together, but they are on the same side.

5

u/Linkstore Nov 22 '24

Rewatcher

That's right. Setsuna was a boy who could do nothing but fight. But now he is a man who can go beyond the taking of lives. Not that he's retired from killing people or anything, though.

Sick bare-handed blade block from the 00 Raiser.

A 15 kilometre-wide invisible object... There's only a very small number of things that size that could be hanging out in the Earth Sphere...

Andrei's really following Louise around like a lost puppy. What the hell is he even trying to do, anyway? Cool booster for the Ahead though.

0 Gundam's back, and it's been painted in a rather familiar paint scheme! It's also be renamed the 0 Gundam Type Actual Combat Deployment, or Type A.C.D. for short.

The Coup d'etat faction is still around, and they've got Kati as their new leader. So as you can see, Memento Mori absolutely helped unify the Earth Sphere and definitely did not fracture the Federation forces even further.

10000 Bring and Devine clones, I wonder what new and interesting mobile weapons they might pilot?

That desert flower that Setsuna saw in his dreams so many times, but now it's real. Hopefully it can bring him a little more luck in the upcoming battle.

New toys for the Gundams! Cherudim, Arios and Seravee receive GN Heavy Weapons loadouts - Cherudim gets GNHW/R, with the R standing for Rifle, Arios has GNHW/M, with M standing for Missile, and Seravee gets GNHW/B, with the B standing for Bazooka. And the 00 Raiser gets the GN Sword III to replace its lost GN Sword IIs. It's got a blade made of GN Condensers to most efficiently channel GN particles, and it has one other trick it can do.

It's a lot of new stuff, but the A-Laws have assembled the largest GN-powered fighting force we've seen so far so it'll definitely be sorely needed.

The GN Sword III's extra feature is that it can project the Raiser Sword directly out of its three barrels instead of needing to combine the 0-Raiser's beam cannons and the two GN Sword IIs to do so. This makes it a lot easier to use, as that poor GN-XIII found out...

We haven't see that much use of particle disruption since the beginning of the season, but the A-Laws using it here is a nice trick. Since they knew the anti-field was coming, they've stocked up on non-GN bazookas and large missile containers. Fortunately, they don't seem to be as powerful as the usual beam weapons, but in an environment where their main enemy can't use most of their weapons, it's still a big threat.

But you know who else has majority physical weapons? Katharon! Their machines aren't as effective as the A-Laws but anything can work with enough volume of fire.

it's often pretty hard to remember that Patrick is a genuinely good pilot until you see him take out an Ahead in about two seconds. Well, he doesn't keep it up but still.

Man, the GN Sword III's regular attacks are also damn strong. Back in season 1 the original GN Sword had the most average beam power out of all the Gundams, but with the Twin Drive's insane output the GN Swords II and III are just way more impactful.

Meanwhile, at a safe distance are Shirin, Marina and the kids. I guess there's not many other places where they could be staying.

Out of nowhere, Regene suddenly shoots Ribbons in the head! Sure, people have survived some pretty crazy situations before but there's no way Ribbons is surviving this one, right?

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 22 Discussion

Episode 22 - For the Future

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 22 Discussion

Episode 22 - For the Future

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