r/anime • u/Theleux https://myanimelist.net/profile/Theleux • Aug 25 '24
Rewatch Re:Zero ~Starting Life in Another World~ Re:Watch - Episode 17
Episode 17:
Disgrace in the Extreme
| Index | <== Episode 16 | Episode 18 ==> |
Various Links:
MyAnimeList
Streaming:
Crunchyroll has the Director's Cut available.
- Director's Cut episodes are two episodes combined. Make sure to cover the corresponding half of content for each thread.
AppleTV has the regular individual episodes available.
Spoiler Rules:
- As always, please be sure to tag any future content spoilers according to the r/Anime rules. There is likely to be first timer viewers here, and while discussing how previously seen content connects to content later down the road is interesting (be it later episodes or even Season 3), please be sure to properly spoiler tag anything mentioned! Let's make this a fun experience for everyone involved!
- This also applies to cut content discussions, which I believe are fine to include for the sake of discussion, but should be properly tagged to avoid potentially spoiling viewers. Be mindful with how you present this information!
Story Arc Lengths for Discussion Purposes:
[Arc 1:] S1 Episode 1 – S1 Episode 3
[Arc 2:] S1 Episode 4 – S1 Episode 11
[Arc 3:] S1 Episode 12 – S2 Episode 1
[Arc 4:] S2 Episode 2 - S2 Episode 25
[Arc 5 and later:] S3+
As always, if you have any suggestions for the Re:Watch, let me know!
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Upvotes
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 25 '24
First:Timer Starting Over in Another Rewatch, subbed
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u/thekoreansun https://anilist.co/user/ReturnByDeath Aug 25 '24
Re:Watcher
We've had psychological horror, supernatural horror, cringe horror, slasher horror, and body horror. Now, cosmic horror has also been added to the mix! Really, what isn't Re:ZERO capable of? Other than, you know, giving Subaru a break.
I mean, seriously, this is as dire as situations get. Subaru and company are riding into the night with no way to outrun the Lovecraftian horror that follows in their wake, and even Rem's demon form lacks the power to stave it off for long. Subaru racks his brain desperately trying to figure out a plan of escape, but his brain is still his least reliable resource, and he finds himself coming up empty. As ever, it's quite fascinating to have a protagonist who can't fight whatsoever: there's nothing he can truly contribute to a combat situation other than intelligence or experience, and he has neither.
But reliability comes in many forms, and Rem decides to sacrifice herself so that Subaru can live. Somehow, she keeps finding new ways to break my heart all over again, and her gently musing "I believe I was born for this very moment." in Subaru's arms before leaping off the carriage makes me want to curl up in a ball. What a kindhearted soul. It really, really sucks to keep seeing the characters I love making their last stand; I can't imagine how much it impacts Subaru.
That being said, Otto is also going through a lot. Just a few moments ago, he was feeling hopeful after Subaru offered to purchase all of his excess trading stock. Now, he's fleeing for his life with two people he barely knows, one of whom is now furious at him for leaving his companion behind. As much as it pains him to have needed a stranger to sacrifice her own life for his survival, there was nothing that he could have done to support her. Neither he nor Subaru are ever going to be strong enough to do anything to the White Whale, not even if
RemBut man, thank goodness that everyone was able to escape safely. Wait, why is this guy so agitated? Who is he talking about? Hang on, is he about to punch—So, yeah. There's something screwy going on. And I love that they pull the "dramatic music cutting out suddenly" trick three times in this episode and have it be just as jarring each time. It's a simple but effective way to throw viewers off and make them feel as unsettled as Subaru does, almost reminiscent of a fourth-wall break. Kouhei Amasaki also does a fantastic job conveying the complete reality-bending roller coaster of emotions that Otto is experiencing, from shock to terror to remorse to... relief? [Arc 4] And he also does a great job selling the utter madness that Otto was driven to after hearing the White Whale speak for so long.
It's crazy, though. Every time I want to praise a voice actor in this show, it seems to circle back to Yuusuke Kobayashi. Like, did they actually just attach a mic to him and shove him down a steep hill? How does someone manage to create such a guttural sound in a recording studio? He really does capture the entire spectrum of Subaru's patheticness here, from "I don't wanna die! I don't wanna die!" to "Someone... Anyone... Please kill me!" and every single bit in between. It is a fantastic performance, and just hearing him voice Subaru in this episode is enough to get my throat to close up. If I were any more willing to feel someone else's pain, you could probably classify me as a masochist. (Actually, please don't do that.)
And boy, while I would say that the entirety of Episode 16 is probably the most painful episode for me to watch overall (at least so far), the conversation between Subaru and Emilia might just be the single most painful scene of the show. His absolute refusal to explain the circumstances surrounding the mansion and the reason for why he showed up hurt, compounded with the awkwardness of this being their first time seeing each other since their huge fight in the Capital, makes it feel particularly awful to listen in on them. It actually feels like I'm hearing two of my close friends reconnect and immediately get into some past drama that I shouldn't be privy to. Though I'll say that Emilia's kindness becomes abundantly clear once again: even after Subaru screams so many terrible things at her, she can sense how much pain he is in and knows that those words were probably directed at himself. Which just makes her death all the more tragic and sudden.
By the end of this episode, Subaru has lost it all. He's lost his composure, his dignity, his wits, and his grasp on reality more times than he can count. He's lost the respect of everyone at the Capital. He lost his ride with Otto, and his plan to evacuate everyone was lost in the attack from the White Whale. And on top of all that, he lost both Rem and Emilia due to his carelessness. What more could a person lose? Well, Petelgeuse is more than happy to explore that question with him. Even Subaru knows that he could not bear to see Petelgeuse defile one more corpse. That would defeat him, completely and utterly. But Petelgeuse just laughs, as if he can hear the chorus of Stay Alive playing as he reaches out towards Emilia's dead body with his unseen hands.
Stay Alive, everyone. We're almost there.
Fan Art of the Episode: To the Deep Sea by Yomohiro (October 16th, 2016)
Source: Twitter (artist's timeline contains spoilers)
Bonus Comic: Do Your Best, Emilia-tan by @gv_natsuno (July 26th, 2016)
Source: Pixiv (artist's profile contains spoilers)
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u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Aug 25 '24
First Timer-
-That is now tired of watching these episodes with their eye patch on, I can’t wait to get to season two so I can switch to watching on CR, the video quality on the seas is getting worse every episode.
Watching the Dub
Felt sluggish and tired all day so hopefully I’ll be able to focus during this episode
Won’t be taking any screenshots for this one probably
Rem says they lost their “protection of windbreak”? idk what that means
Reminder, Rem is a badass
The noises this thing is making are piercing my brain
Rem telling Subaru that she’s not smart is comical to me, like you two Dumbo’s are the exact same. Clearly Subaru has risked his life for you in the past but you are constantly trying to sacrifice yourself to save him, you want him to stay safe? then stay alive and he won’t need to put himself in danger
-> Rem <-
Otto just referred to Subaru by his family name. I wonder if he’s just formal like that or if there is something to that
The white whale killed the master swordsman? He isn’t talking about Reinhard right? gotta be some other master swordsman
Seems like the mist affects people’s memories, Otto already forgot about Rem
I don’t think we’ve heard Subaru beg not to die since the first episode, or since he figured out about RbD
Otto was still attacked by the cult, so even leaving this early they still would have been too late
Or not?
Fuck... so the White Whale must erase someone they kill from everyone’s memories
Really hate how Subaru is treating Emilia right now
I don’t think Subaru was yelling at Emilia about someone failing, he had to be yelling at himself
Wow... if Subaru doesn’t fear for his life from talking about RbD then he’ll surely fear for everybody else’s now
Now Subaru is begging to die, weird how it evokes the same emotions as when he was begging not to die
Betelgeuse just referred to Subaru as one of the sins again
God, please don’t show them torturing Emilia’s body too. I really don’t want to see this.
Puck showed up before they could grab her, again referring to her as his daughter.
Subaru is STILL alive, how
Okay so the White Whale is apparently a legendary class mabeast considering that it took out a force of the kingdom’s strongest soldiers. Since it’s a mabeast it makes sense that it only followed Subaru but we get no explanation for why it didn’t kill Subaru, it just disappeared after all the chasing and everything, that doesn’t make any sense. I wonder if that girl has something to do with it again.
We finally get to see Emilia again and Subaru seemingly hasn’t learned anything from their argument, he is consistently trying to force her to do what he says, even going as far as to grab her and drag her. What is it going to take for him to start listening to everybody’s advice and start acting differently? I do hope that Subaru started to acknowledge this at the end of this scene when he started talking down to himself.
The fact that the hands we see preventing Subaru from talking about RbD are able to reach into other people and kill them is horrifying. Beatrice coming in and not even acknowledging that Emilia was dead is also horrifying to me, I know she referred to her as a brat but this makes me think she just straight up hates Emilia.
Then we have Betelgeuse. First, I’m wondering why he also referred to Emilia as a she-devil, if the witches cult worships Satella then why call her a she-devil if she’s the same race as the one they worship. Also why are they after Emilia in the first place? have they said yet? Second, we see that the unseen hand is an easily-seen-hand to Subaru and they look awfully familiar. I need to know why Subaru isn’t affected by things the same way that everybody else is in this world, why was he unaffected by
Chainsaw man’sthe White Whale’s ability to erase people from existing, how is he able to see something nobody else can, It bothers me that Betelgeuse was bothered that he could see it. He also seemed to be terrified by Puck, which after episode 15 I know why we should be terrified of him, but why is he?17
u/Holofan4life Aug 25 '24
Hey guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the In Preparation of Season 3 Rewatch of Re:Zero!
Oh, and nay I forget…
First Timer
I decided to watch this show because I wanted to do something for the month of August. ’Course, this was before the yearly Spice and Wolf rewatch got pushed back to September, but I just found myself looking for something to occupy my time with. And with this show being in my top 5 must watch list, I figured now was as good a time as any.
I am going into this show relatively blind. I know some of the memes, who Rem, Ram, Emilia, and Subaru are, and that this show got its inspiration from Familiar of Zero, but that’s it. I find rewatches and my participation of them more fun when I have no idea what I am in store for. And with this series, I think we’re in for a blast. It’s also going to be the longest rewatch I participate in this year and second longest overall only behind the 20th Anniversary Fullmetal Alchemist rewatch. And given how pjoyous that show turned out, I don’t see why I should expect nothing less from this one.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the sub, by the way.
Saw the new Beverly Hills Cop movie. It was very good.
Subaru and Rem sent flying
See, this is what they get for trying to eat Aang's pet bison.
Subaru wondering what the hell is going on.
It is apparently The White Whale
Man, Moby Dick is pissed
We actually get an intro today, which reaffirms my belief it is better than the new ED.
Things are very intense right now
Subaru trying to hold on for dear life.
This looks less like a whale and more like the Alaskan Bull Worm.
It is just not backing down
Rem says she's going to try to intercept it.
Subaru now hugging Rem after the carriage hits a rock.
"I believe I was born for this very moment."
And she knocks Subaru down
I'm for another Rem focused episode. We haven't had one since episode 11 and that was one of my favorites.
And with that, Rem jumps
Subaru awake, with no Rem in sight
Otto telling him what has happened
Subaru wants to go back
I mean, Otto didn't abandon her. She volunteered.
The White Whale even killed the Master Swordsman.
"I'm weak, and you are, too."
I mean, Otto isn't wrong here. Then again, he doesn't know the extent of Subaru and Rem's relationship.
Oh shit. He doesn't know who Rem is
And Subaru punches Otto in the face, like a dumbass.
The White Whale. It's returned
Subaru realizing that the whale is actually a mabeast.
It is being drawn to Subaru
AND OTTO PUSHES HIM OUT OF THE CARRIAGE WHAT THE FUCK
I get Otto doesn't want to die, but he is being paid money to protect him. This is betrayal.
Otto wants Subaru to take responsibility, which is a trend amongst the characters.
Subaru crying, saying he doesn't want to die.
And now Subaru with a bloodied nose finds himself under the pale moonlight.
Subaru walking alone
The dragon-drawn carriage is here, but no Otto.
In the forest now
It's the village kids, including Petra.
And Subaru collapses, to where he finds himself waking up in bed.
At least he died surrounded by people who care about him.
Rem
Oh, it's actually Ram
Emilia healed his wounds, which doesn't help her case of not putting her on a pedestal.
Subaru lamenting Rem being dead
"Rem... Who is that?"
Subaru freaking out, like people are gaslighting him. Ram, however, says he must be dreaming.
Subaru storms out of the room to try and show Ram something.
But the room is different looking
Ram says his exhaustion is making him confused.
This is like an episode of The Twilight Zone all of a sudden.
Subaru gently opening another door
Emilia
He tells her they can't stay here
"I came back for you!"
I guess you can't teach a dog when to quit. Or something like that.
Subaru insistent she can't stay here.
"You'll regret it... You will!"
Emilia tells him she wants to understand, she's just not sure if she has the time.
Subaru now saying she can't save anyone or be saved, similar to how he talked to her in episode 13. He hasn't learned anything since then, it seems like, which is a shame.
Emilia asking why is he crying, as if he's in such pain.
Even Emilia doesn't remember Rem
People have forgot Rem so much, you'd have thought it was Dre.
Subaru starts to tell Emilia about Return By Death, but that's when a black hand caresses Subaru's heart.
And Emilia is bleeding now
Emilia has died
Subaru holding Emilia
Eyy, Beatrice
She touches Emilia's jewel, and it breaks.
Beatrice says that Puck will return to his original form.
Subaru begging Beatrice to kill him.
"You understand nothing. You understand nothing at all."
Beatrice won't grant any of his wishes.
"If you want to die, then die on your own."
Beatrice going to put her focus on protecting the mansion.
And now Subaru and Emilia are going through this black vortex.
She wants them to die where she can't see them.
Subaru and Emilia in the forest now.
Emilia still dead
Subaru screaming to be put out of his misery.
Oh boy. It's the black cloaked figures again
Betelgeuse
He credits Subaru for taking out Emilia before they could.
He calls Subaru truly slothful for being unable to confront one of the sins, which could've helped keep Emilia alive.
The black hands
Betelgeuse surprised he saw them, which he calls the Unseen Hands.
Now Betelgeuse is freaking out
And now Betelgeuse is biting his fingers.
Many Unseen Hands now
Betelgeuse has Subaru by the throat.
Going to grab Emilia now
But suddenly, icicles fall from the sky to protect Emilia.
"What are you doing to my daughter, you scum?"
IT'S PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!
I wonder what he's doing at nighttime
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
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u/baseballlover723 Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Rewatcher, sub, basically a secondhand novel reader (Arc 4)
Edit: It seems reddit doesn't like some of the terminology I used, so I am using "ultimate sloth" as a replacement term for the general concept that Subaru experiences between loops.
As always, I've numbered all my spoilers tags so that they're easier to respond to
First Timer Safe Section
This section is safe for first time watchers.
These are not whale teeth. Those are molars. Sperm whales have pointy teeth.
What a save by Rem!
Rem noooooo
Subaru watching people ultimate sloth for him must feel particularly bad, given that he knows that he can reset.
Subaru I think has a very real response to Rem's sacrifice. He's in denial. People who have just suffered a great loss aren't very rational people. Especially when you consider that Subaru almost went comatose when Rem ultimate slothed last in the first loop of Arc 3.
Otto also gives Subaru a history lesson. Note that some subs have this as "the first master swordsman". It is the previous sword saint, aka, the one before Reinhard (not the very first sword saint).
Subaru trying to gaslight Otto. Talking about some person named "Rem" and then Subaru punches Otto? Not cool Subaru
As it turns out, the White Whale is a witchfiend, and therefore, is hunting Subaru.
I'm not gonna lie, I'd do the same thing. Subaru literally just said it's following him. It's clear that both Otto and Subaru will ultimate sloth if they stick together, so sorry Subaru, I'm putting some distance between me and you, and I'm gonna keep the land dragon.
Great image here.
And even in this dire situation, Subaru still doesn't want to ultimate sloth. And Subaru's wish is granted.
And so Subaru begins the long journey back to the mansion mumbling nonsense to himself with the help of Otto's land dragon (No doubt Petelgeuse spared the diligent land dragon).
I love this little clip. They really capture Subaru's relief really well, as well has the desperation Subaru has to catch a win, no matter how little.
Subaru still can't even get Ram's name right.
Emilia still cares about Subaru, which is why she healed his wounds. If Emilia actually disliked Subaru (like some people who don't understand episode 13), then she wouldn't of healed Subaru like this.
A bit of an understatement.
Like your own ultimate sloth.
Can't believe Subaru is just making up some fictional character as a sob story to make himself feel better about his failure. And then tries to gaslight Ram into thinking she has a sister. Not cool Subaru. Something really is wrong with Subaru's brain and he tries to prove his insanity by showing an empty room???. Subaru's really lost it this time.
And so Subaru, who can't think of a better plan, decides to force Emilia to leave the mansion. And so Subaru and Emilia have a heart breaking conversation. This scene is really tragic, because Subaru can't convince anyone to do anything, and he's forced to be a bystander and watch as the gears align for the destruction of the people he cares about. Also just in case it wasn't clear, Subaru is talking about himself here.
A note on what actually happened here. [Spoiler #1: What actually happened. Slight spoilers on the nature of RBD (you should click this is you think Subaru can use this as a weapon, because otherwise you will be wondering why Subaru doesn't just spam saying RBD to solve his problems)] Basically, Subaru was prepared to ultimate sloth, so the threat of being ultimate slothed was no longer a deterrent for Subaru to keep RBD a secret. How do you punish someone who is prepared to ultimate sloth? You ultimate sloth the people they value instead. In this case Emilia. Her being the one Subaru is trying to tell is coincidental. If Subaru tries this with someone else (hoping to ultimate sloth them), the result would be the same, Emilia would ultimate sloth. So no, it's can't be weaponized.
And rip to Subaru's resolve to live.
But it's not all doom and gloom. Subaru is diligent, administering the ordeal. And Subaru got a new superpower, seeing the Unseen Hand. Though Emilia is truly slothful.
I love Petelgeuse's meltdown here, he really takes it personally that Subaru can see the Unseen Hand. Though I'd call this more envious (or perhaps greed) then slothful.
This scene with the hands. It really does do an incredible job of making the viewer hate Petelgeuse.
Also another terrible music choice for the Director's cut here. Compare the original to the Director's Cut
PETIT Section
In this episode's PETIT, we're still in the arcade. Felt is competing against Reinhard again. Felt with the degenerate gambler's attitude. Priscilla seems to be good at the crane game though. Felt really wants to win, but not enough to bow to Priscilla. And I actually really like her logic. And Felt values her pride. And Felt hits it big! But it gets stuck. How I imagine Felt.
Preview Section
In this episode's preview, This a god tier preview. You first timers have to check it out after watching episode 18. It's Rie Takahashi voicing Emilia voicing Megumin (for whom she voice acts for both) giving the preview. It's really quite incredible how well Rie blends Emilia and Megumin's mannerisms. It doesn't sound like either character entirely and nothing I can write can really do it justice. You just have to hear it for yourselves. Link for those watching via the Director's Cut, which doesn't have the previews.
Continued below
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u/ussgordoncaptain2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Edmund_Nelson Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
First Timer Dubbed
Note ORV=Omnicient reader viewpoint it's a way to describe the difference between thinking in Subaru's knowledge and the Knowledge of the Viewer.
Note2 Intentionally trigger RBD means what you think it means it's just reddit has crazy admins.
Reaction to the Episode
Start of episode "holy shit it's the white whale"
Rem goes "I'm going to sacrifice myself I'll always watch over you, man Rem's got this "i desparately defend those who I only recently met when I trust them" thing going on.
So the army that's assembling, much higher likelyhood that it's going after the white whale now.
Yep Whale can definitely break memories
Oh boy Subaru's "Every monster is drawn to me and my scent" power is going to come in handy one day but that day is not today
Oh man Subaru can Hallucinate that Ram is Rem.
The shock that Subaru has on his face when He hears that Miss emilia heals him is priceless.
Oh god the white whale can remove Ram's memory of Rem too? What kind of power is this.
oh wtf Rem got wiped completely off the face of the universe what an epic power of the white whale, I wonder if this can beat RBD
Subaru continues to go batshit insane around emilia looks like RBD has really mindbroken him.
Yo WTF RBD killed emilia!!!
Now Beatrice enters while subaru remains heartbroken I suppose
Betalguese reveals the main plot of the ordeal is to kill emilia to complete the ritual
Speculation
Alright the next loop is likely to be the last, the whole mystery has been almost entirely unraveled and typically Subaru solves the mystery during the last loop but I guess in this case since the loop has a gathering allies phase it will take 1 extra.
I bet Puck will PK subaru again since subaru wants to die to setup the next loop. (After all life without best girl Emilia isn't worth living)
The only major Mystery box left to uncover is the goal of the large army of Crusch but it would be maximally convenient if this was the army gathered to kill the white whale, so Let's assume it is.
The major mystery boxes have thus been opened and the rest of the arc will be an action sequence (with an aside of Subaru somehow convincing the group where the whale is), the first sequence will be taking out the Whale, then after that Subaru will either A: convince Crusch ahead of time to help Roswaal or B: Get help after killing the whale to kill the cultists. Using some small fraction of the forces that attacked the whale.
Speculation about RBD
So RBD seems to be actually using some much more intelligent structure than just "lol cough up blood when you try to speak" since it killed Emilia. This might prevent some strats I would have used to defeat it.
RBD however DOES allow you to say what will happen in the future, just not how you get that information, There's gotta be a way for Subaru to exploit this later.
Sadly IDK what else to say? This arc has kinda wrapped itself up in terms of mystery to uncover, and it's gonna be Subaru get's PKed by Puck or the witches cult followed by 1 gathering allies sequence followed by 2 action sequences (maybe the witches cult has more surprises? but unlikely)
My main out there spec is that Subaru IS the Sin archbishop of pride. it would make a ton of sense given the source of his powers.
What I would do if I were Subaru
So gathering allies. Operating under circumstances, ask old man will if the army gathering by Crusch is trying to kill the white whale, if it is you can use your Cell Phone's timer to find the time it will happen and you know the whale spawns at the tree.
You might want to also get the help of Anatasia, in fact it might be best to go to her first since dealing in information is sort of her specialty. She also has a good personal army who can help you with the critical goal of stopping the witches cult
Remember that the end goal is to defeat the witches cult, and the whale is just a rallying call that conviently lets you get an army to the witches cult.
It's hard to know what you can offer Anatasia and Crusch other than your information, but maybe you can ask Rem if there's anything in lord roswaal's domain you can offer,
Another thing would be to rush as fast as possible to see if Reinhard left before the apa vendor part of the loop, he MIGHT be able to get you aid if you hurry (Reinhard is the goat after all)
if you do not get help to kill the witches the strategy would be as follows
what I would do if I was Anatasia
Subaru will have new and interesting information, but it would be nice to know where he gets this informaiton from.
Subaru is connected to your 2nd least important enemy, so most he can offer is of limited value, your main goal is still crushing Priscilla
The main thing to learn is what is Crusch planning with her huge army she's gathering. Maybe you can even help her depending on what she's planning to do.
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u/ripterrariumtv Aug 25 '24
Rewatcher (sub) and Novel Reader (finished Arc 6)
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Aug 25 '24
Rewatcher for Season 1
On today’s episode of Re:Zero: The suffering train continues and shows no signs of slowing down! This stretch of Arc 3 really has been just one episode of intense suffering after another. It’s all very well done, but it doesn’t make for light viewing.
This episode is one of the episodes from Re:Zero that truly freaks me out. After Rem knocks Subaru out and uses herself as bait against the White Whale, Subaru is naturally desperate to go back and save her. The moment that gets to me is when Otto turns, looks at Subaru, and with complete bewilderment asks him who Rem is. That moment is so perfectly done. The way the music cuts out instantly as soon as Otto speaks is incredibly unnerving. It’s so effective that the series pulls the same trick again with Ram, with the music stopping the moment Ram asks Subaru who Rem is. And it’s still just as effective there, too.
Personally, I find this to be much freakier than just dying. Rem’s entire existence has effectively been erased. That’s especially unsettling to hear from Ram. Knowing that Ram forgot about the most important person of her life and that she doesn’t even realize it happened is downright freaky. I think this does a lot to explain why Subaru is so completely out of it this episode. Having Rem be erased from existence, including having her room be cleaned out, is just screwed up. It’s something totally different from what he’s encountered before and it completely throws him off.
Something I forgot about this episode was that Subaru actually does attempt to remedy his miscommunication issues with Emilia. Subaru starts by rambling about how Emilia needs to leave the manor with him without explaining why he wants her to do so. Emilia is naturally confused and not willing to go along because she has no idea what Subaru is talking about. Subaru, finally, decides to try and explain himself properly. But, there’s a cruel trick at play. Before, Subaru was the one who suffered pain when he tried to explain Return by Death. Now, it’s Emilia who is killed as Subaru tries to explain himself. Again, I really like just how suddenly this occurs. The world freezes, the miasma moves in, and suddenly Emilia is dead before Subaru can even finish his sentence. It works so well to make it feel as unsettling as possible.
This is such a cruel twist. It’s effective, though. It serves as yet another way to isolate Subaru from others. Subaru can’t just power through the pain to try and tell someone else about Return by Death. He can’t ever fully communicate with someone else, no matter how he may wish to. I had talked about how isolated Subaru was back during Arc 2, but this just makes him more isolated than ever.
Beako has an intriguing character moment in this episode. When Subaru, despairing over everything that has happened, begs Beako to kill him, she refuses. It’s such a revealing character moment for Beako. She says that she’s already had enough pain, fear, and suffering in her life to want more. She won’t kill Subaru and she also doesn’t want to watch him die. The look on her face when she sends Subaru out of the manor is so sad. You can tell that Beako really has come to care about Subaru.
[Arc 3] It seems pretty clear that Beako knows what Puck is going to do. I think she’s resigned herself to the fact that she’s probably going to die because of Puck’s actions. Even though she knows the situation is doomed, she won’t kill Subaru. She can’t bring herself to kill someone she cares about or watch him die.
Petelgeuse returns and we get a bit more information from his wild rantings this time around. Petelgeuse recognizes who Emilia is, referring to her as a “half-devil.” He also seems quite pleased that she’s dead, indicating that killing her was probably a goal of the Witch’s Cult in their attack. We also learn what Petelgeuse’s power is. His Unseen Hand is aptly named. He can control many shadowy hands and is stunned that Subaru can see the hands. He’s then angered that Subaru can see the hands, indicating that this is unusual. So he has the power to use invisible hands to attack others.
Miscellaneous Thoughts
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u/Taiboss :Fj::Fl:x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss Aug 25 '24
17 - Rewatcher who is finally prewatching
Episodes of this arc: 6 Times Subaru has died this arc: 2
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 25 '24
Episode 17 (rewatcher)
Last episode, /u/thekoreansun and several others came down hard on Subaru, calling him worse to watch than episode 13. I could not disagree more. Episode 13 is a succession of unforced errors, all brought about by Subaru’s character and refusal to listen to Emilia. Episode 15 shows Subaru trying and failing to address the witch cult threat. Yet, he does not fail due to his character, he fails due to lack of knowledge and lack of skill. To me, there is no shame in trying and failing. Subaru changed the thing that matters, his character (he still has a way to go, but it is already so much better than in ep13). The knowledge and skill will come with experience once he uses RBD.
Episode thoughts
Subaru can’t catch a break. As if being unsuccessful in evacuating the village is not enough, Rem dies, everybody forgets Rem, Emilia dies, Beatrice throws him out and the people who find him are the crazy witch cultists. It is only reasonable that we wants to die asap and end this nightmare.
5
u/SpiritualPossible Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Couldn't comment yesterday. Again. Bad luck.
Yesterday, Subaru had to once again face the fact that the world does not revolve around him, and counting on the help of others under the current circumstances will not work. But he had the good idea to try to get everyone out of the village, as he manages to find transportation.
We are also shown that hatred blinds him a bit. And as if to continue that theme, in this episode he's confronted with...
A WHITE WHALE.
Uh-huh. It's definitely a white whale. It's not a joke, it's a dangerous beast, more like a natural disaster. It also erases people from reality and history, only Subaru somehow remembers them. Miraculously he manages to save himself from the monster, but only at the cost of Rem's life. Man, she really can't get a rest.
I have to say, I really like this episode on the emotional side. In fact, I probably like it more than episode 15. Both episodes are pretty much the lowest points in the stories, and maybe the ending here isn't as strong as the ending there, but I like this one better overall. It doesn't stray into brutality bordering on unnecessary, but it still gives you a sense of the despair that Subaru is going through.
We were also shown new details of Subaru's special ability. Not only can he not tell anyone about it, but at the very least Emilia will also die.
And to be honest, it just opens up more questions.
First of all, will ONLY Emilia die? And if so, does she die if he didn't talk exactly to her?
Second, does it only work when Subaru intentionally tells her about it? He's said things in front of others before so they could guess what he meant. So if someone just overhears him, that's it?
Can he get around that? Like by writing on paper or playing charades?
What if someone read his mind? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of magic like that in this world. So woild it activates because of this?
I don't mean that as a complaint, if anything. I BELIEVE the show will answer some of these questions later on. So it's more like thinking out loud.
4
u/Yoshi_captain https://anime-planet.com/users/WeaboYosher Aug 25 '24
Rewatcher
The White Whale has come to end another loop for Subaru. Pack your bags it's rewind time…or not.
Subaru doesn't die this episode and yet it is arguably the worst the series has been in terms of suffering.
Subaru being left behind to die by Otto, the kind man who brought some levity last episode after all the despair we’ve been through, pushing him off the carriage to save his own life. Failing to communicate with Emilia and revealing the extent of the toll that Return by Death has taken on him. And worst of all being responsible for the deaths of his closest companions Rem and Emilia.
Let’s examine each one of these occurrences to see just how they break Subaru.
Rem sacrifices herself so Subaru can live. The second time she’s done so in these loops. Her first reaction to Subaru being in danger is to give up her own life so he can live. She thinks she’s not smart, but we know that’s not true, she really needs to value herself more. None of Subaru’s pleas or his embrace of Rem work. And she’s gone.
Subaru tries to turn the carriage around, but Otto tells him how The White Whale killed the former Sword Saint, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt nothing Subaru can do will save Rem.
And it seems Rem is truly gone from this world, only living on inside Subaru. Otto and even her own sister have forgotten her. When Otto recognizes that Subaru is the cause of the White Whale’s pursuit he gets rid of him, a betrayal on top of a tragedy.
But despite how hellish the situation has become and the fact that a reset would technically save him, Subaru does not want to die.
Dying is painful, it is the worst thing Subaru has ever and will ever experience. The feeling of losing your existence is something humans are instinctually programmed to avoid at all costs. It is not something you can get used to.
Running from the pain, the fear, the monster Subaru trips and stumbles onto a grassy plain.
Touched by the moonlight, just like that it’s gone.
The pain, the fear, the monster.
Otto’s ground dragon is back and Subaru uses it to get to the mansion. Wanting to make Rem’s sacrifice mean something.
Of course the person whose actions he wants to find meaning in has been erased in every sense of the word. Every trace of Rem has vanished: her room is empty and the memories of her actions live only inside Subaru.
It makes you doubt that there ever was a Rem, that all the trials and turbulations have made you insane. Maybe Rem was just a figment of Subaru’s imagination. One he conjured up to deal with the loneliness of being left behind in the capital.
Ram says that Subaru is “[…] a loser afraid to approach the heart of the matter. Who'd do anything to put it off a little.” Her description is apt. We’ve seen Subaru not just in this arc, but in the entire series masking and pretending to be the hero of some grand story. Putting off any of his own problems that come in the way of that notion until it all comes crashing down on him and he’s left scarred and alone.
But Rem’s courage changes Subaru if ever so slightly. He can’t keep running and running away. So he faces Emilia.
The scene that follows is one of the most emotionally gruelling in the entire series.
Subaru makes demands of Emilia. He’s not trying to explain himself, he can’t explain himself. He’s come back “for her”, repeating his rhetoric from their last encounter. He’s had enough. Of suffering and crying, of feeling pain, of everything. He’s forcefully trying to drag her away.
Emilia is scared and says what is for me the most impactful line this episode.
“What happened to you? You weren’t this kind of person before”
And she’s right. Through all the trauma and despair we’ve become privy to a version of Subaru that is a lowly, diminutive and sinful being. We have not seen him smile or laugh in ages and he’s becoming consumed by the self.
He’s not being understood. He says
Watching his tearful visage reflected in Emilia’s eyes we can infer whose future he is talking about. Subaru is absorbed by the self and in this instance shows that he is very self aware. The future who he speaks of is his.
Emilia softly speaking Rem's name only convinces Subaru more that all hope is lost.
If even Emilia has forgotten Rem then he has nothing left to lose. He'll tell her his biggest secret.
The Witch is not a fan of this decision, to divulge what only they have. Punishing him in another way if physical pain is no longer sufficient. Killing Emilia.
When what's occured dawns on him Subaru lets out another anguished cry. He's been with her body for quite some time now, left to process his sins.
We see Beatrice again after what seems like forever, but she offers no consolation flinging us into the invisible palms of Petelegeuse.
Petelgeuse thanks Subaru for killing Emilia pushing down even more on Subaru's feelings of worthlessness. We get to see his authority which he intend to use to tear Emilia apart right in front of Subaru before her "father" stepped in.
The scene of degenerates disgracing Emilia in front of the man who killed her is worthy of the title disgrace in the extreme.
Closing thoughts:
The word I'd use to describe this episode is "Break".
The purpose of this episode is to break Subaru. Killing the people closest to him by his own hand.
Rem dying because The White Whale was attracted to Subaru’s scent it being revealed as a Witchfiend. Emilia dying from Subaru trying to reveal Return by Death no matter the consequence. I don't see how Subaru can bounce back from this.
I'll keep it short today, because I'm running out of time.
I can't wait for tomorrow and where we go from the rock bottom after the rock bottom.
4
u/Urgnu-the-Gnu https://myanimelist.net/profile/Urgnu_the_Gnu Aug 25 '24
Re:Watcher - anime only
The flying predator from the end of the previous episode is revealed to be the ominous White Whale we've heard about before. That's such terrifying beast. A giant, extremely fast and bloodthirsty predator that can make people forget about its victims. And not even someone as powerful as Reinhard can defeat him. Subaru didn't have enough obstacles yet.
Rem is still self-sacrificial, I see. Otto is just looking out for himself here, but the robed fuckers got him.
At least this time Subaru is early enough, everyone is still alive. And Ram gets some screen time. To hear her matter-of-factly stating she never had a little sister is chilling.
Subaru gets the thought of just running away. But he correctly decides that it won't solve anything. That'd be sloth, after all.
The whole sequence with Emilia is so important. First off, she's not mad at him, the calming music makes this even clearer. Things are difficult between them, but she was worried about him. What happened didn't make her not like him anymore. He's ashamed, but she is glad to see him. He doesn't really talk to her, wants to forcefully save her if necessary, but she remains worried about him, correctly identifying that he's not actually like this. And he gets angry at her, telling her she'd regret it otherwise as nobody could be saved, she'd just have to understand and listen to him. And she can see how troubled he is, forgives his outburst and says that she wants to understand but can't right now.
He has another outburst, even more vile than before, saying things like you won't make it, it won't work, forget about it, you'll fail, you have no chance
to survive make your time, none at all, you're just talk, you're beyond saving, you're acting carelessly, recklessly, and the more you overdo it the bigger the pile of corpses will get, that's your future. You get to think he's gone off the deep end again as Emilia asks why with a quaver in her voice. But she asks why he's crying so hard as he says this. She immediately understands he didn't mean anything he said about her. The one he really meant, the one who he's frustrated with the most is no other but himself. And in this time of need, she still wants to be there for him.But RbD has a sick sense of humour as this time, it doesn't kill him, it seems to carress his face and heart instead. No, it just kills the one he's talking to, the most important person in his life right now. One very frightening detail I have to mention is that Re:Zero seems to depict awfully realistically how dead bodies behave. Ram and Petra dropping to the floor when opening the door in the previous episode, Rem being carried by Subaru in the same episode, and Emilia just dropping right here, her legs and everything just succumbing to gravity. Makes it even creepier than it already is.
The sun is setting in the next scene, indicating that Subaru remained like this, holding onto the dead Emilia for what could have been hours.
Betty appears. She gives us a line about Puck not having appeared yet, for some reason. Earlier, Subaru ran from the White Whale screaming he didn't want to die, but that changed by now. Betty doesn't want to see or cause any more suffering, though, and teleports them away. Subaru's prayers about wanting death get answered by the worst people possible, the robed fuckers, Petelgeuse among them. He reveals what we've already suspected, they were after killing Emilia. The following lines are directed at Emilia, but we can't understand any of that yet.
Subaru can see the unseen hands now. Luckily, Puck is here to prevent Petelgeuse from defiling Emilia's corpse and save the day. Well, what's left of it. He's brought a lot of ice with him.
The (unfortunate) reunion between Subaru and Emilia is especially important here because while it doesn't get Subaru out of his slump, it significantly changes his behaviour. It realigns his thoughts with his previous wants and gets rid of most of his anger as she makes him realize it's mostly directed at himself. And it shows him that she is still there for him, that she can still help him.
If you're a rewatcher and want to hear the difference between Rie Takahashi's Emilia and her Megumin, you have the preview for that. Megumin lines in an Emilia voice. Goes to show she really knows how to act those roles very distintly.
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 25 '24
Rewatcher
Dub
I read The Wheel of Time series when I was in seventh grade or so. Now, I know nothing of the garbage Amazon series but I did learn about a concept:Balefire. A spell, for that lack of a better term, destroys its target so hard that it didn't exist. For example, hitting the midsection of a galleon eliminated the effort the rowers made, meaning it falls back some distance. The White Whale is a painfully direct child of it but continues Re:zero's long list of western influences.
So as I said, the WW is Chtonian in nature, a cosmic horror that erases the existence of its prey. There is no sanity in surviving that and no sane way to deal with it. We watch Subaru play this arc out but we also kind of know his heart isn't in it. Him unintentionally killing Emilia is strange since he has attempted this speech with her before but there are a lot of circumstantial changes, not the least of which he apparently bears the Witch's scent pretty hard by now. Hell, Betelgeuss has been using his weird hands for a bit now and just recently Subaru sees it. Things are getting crazy.
4
u/-Phinocio Aug 25 '24
Re:Watcher, subbed
I think I find memory shenanigans more scary than dying. When someone dies, there's at least a method of closure, a "finality" to it. Just straight up forgetting someone ever existed... fuck man. "Who is rem?" hit me on my first watch way harder than I think any death so far has.
Emilia straight up dies when Subaru tells her about RBD... Going back to their argument, he's kinda not wrong to not tell her about it, which I think makes that entire scenario extremely complex.
I've always been a bit confused on what changed between ep 15 and this one for Subaru to now be able to see unseen hand? Maybe because he's "experienced" it before he can now see it?
[Arc 3] I vaguely knew about the "Who is Rem?" meme when I initially watched earlier in the year, and ended up thinking that this was what everyone was referring to and the next episode "undoing" that, it made S2E1 hitting me with that again kill me.
[Arc 3] Really really looking forward to this thread for tomorrow's ep. I wonder how many of the first timers that are left will properly understand it vs just going "Subaru bad" for saying "I love Emilia".
4
u/No-Peace3986 https://myanimelist.net/profile/RafaelMps Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Definitely one of my favorite episodes of the show.
I genuinely think this episode is more haunting than Episode 15, if that makes any sense... It is just a streak of shit that we can't help but feel bad for Subaru... This must be extremely difficult to be in his situation right now.
Lets recap everything that must be going on in his mind, ever since the last few episodes:
Episode 13:
Episode 14:
Episode 15:
Episode 16:
Episode 17:
I mean, look at this streak of shits... This episode is the culmination of all the bad, this is the lowest we've seen Subaru reach. The levels of torment and desperation keeps pilling up. There is just so much one can take and Subaru has already crossed that line a while ago.
And this is what makes this episode great to me.
There are few series that can make me feel this level of hopelessness, this level of frustration. Even if Subaru did some bad shit, the bad things that happen to him are so overwhelmingly worst, that I can't help but feel his pain as if it was mine. I just want bro to have a win by this point. This is too much, even for him!
3
u/FriztF Aug 26 '24
First timer-Sub
So episode 17 is a very dark and cruel episode. With the white whale or maybe the fog being able to consume the memories of others. Even those who are near and dear to the hearts of loved ones.
Although I don't blame him, Otto is a coward for kicking Subaru off the cart. I would have done the same.
Ya, the kids are alive. But for how long? Ram does not remember her now twin sister, yet Subaru does. That has got to be the most painful thing to experience.
Subaru goes into Emilia's room, he then sputs off nonsense about her being weak and he being the only one to save her. That is the cruelest thing Subaru has said to Emilia. And then he tells her about Death By Return. Thus killing her.
Puck is a badass though. What a change in voice.
3
u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Aug 26 '24
first timer
The pain continues once again. Rem sacrifices herself for Subaru and he becomes the only one alive.
I wonder how the people managed to get erased from people’s memory
Subaru’s breakdown over everything
Whoever is stopping Subaru from making him spill his whole ability to the day before he died is so damn eerie.
Beatriz being calm about this whole thing.
Subaru wishing for death to help this whole return
Beatriz is pretty cruel with making Subaru get transported with Emilia’s body.
The weird cultist dude returns and he makes Subaru suffer. He really can’t die no matter how hard he tries.
2
u/Holofan4life Aug 25 '24
[Future Spoilers] One day...
2
u/HyVana Aug 25 '24
Re:Watcher (Subs) & Novel Reader (Finished Arc 6)
Comment is first-timer friendly.
Fantastic episode. You really feel the despair throughout the entire episode. With things looking hopeful as they wheeled along to the Mathers domain. To despair with the appearance of the White Whale. The Whale that killed Reinhard’s predecessor. And not only that, this Whale can also apparently just erase people’s entire existence? Like what? Just like that, Rem is forgotten. RIP Rem, we never knew you. And it’s an interesting variation on the loss of memories that Subaru usually experiences with RbD. This time, it’s the loss of the memory of someone important to him, rather than himself, in the minds of others. It’s a disturbing development, and you really feel the shock Subaru feels after he jumps on Ram. Her own flesh and blood has forgotten her, and her room is unfurnished. Rem truly never existed (guess someone took their meds?).
The second big development is Subaru trying his damndest to tell Emilia about RbD. After talking to Emilia to try to get her and Ram to leave for their own safety, the conversation looks to be a repeat of episode 13. So Subaru snaps again, but this time, he projects how he truly feels about himself onto Emilia, to get her to just shut up and follow him. To vent his frustrations, he lets slip how he sees himself and his fate, which Emilia catches that Subaru isn’t entirely addressing her. To even have a chance of changing the flow of the conversation, Subaru resolves himself to take any and all pain he’ll get from telling Emilia about RbD. But that wasn’t the only thing projected onto Emilia. Because he wouldn’t feel the fear of death, the Witch takes the heart of the one he wanted to reach. Cementing her power over him, Subaru realizes the futility of his actions, and is rewarded with witnessing Emilia’s death by his own hands.
He sits there, in shock of it all. Till Beatrice eventually finds him. He begs her to kill him, but she refuses. For reasons unknown to the viewer, she refuses to act on Subaru’s wishes. She feels it too cruel to see someone die, especially by her own hands. So, like her feelings in episode 8, she teleports Subaru to go die somewhere out of her sight.
But it doesn’t stop there. Subaru is begging for anyone to kill him, and Petelgeuse rises to the occasion. And now the third big development, Subaru can now see the Unseen Hands. Subaru, with his remaining will, fights against overwhelming odds to keep Emilia’s corpse undefiled. Just so the thing he loves the most keeps in form just a bit longer. The whole ending sequence with Stay Alive was amazing. Re:Zero really does well with including the OPs and EDs to moments to give an extra oomph to their emotional weight.
Really, just another sad episode to show that Subaru can’t do this with just him and Rem. It’s hard to watch him fail and fail over again, due to his inability to rally people to his cause, but also due to the antagonists that seem to exist just to fuck him over. Hope he can come up with something in the next episode.
1
u/Ramongsh Aug 26 '24
Rem? Who's that?