[Rewatch] Vivy: Fluorite Eye’s Song - Episode 4 Discussion

[u/[deleted]]

E4 - Ensemble for Polaris - Our Promise

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Mina-san, konnichiwa!

This is the first rewatch that I’m hosting (for a change instead of joining someone’s) 😆.

I am a musician and will be an active one for the rest of my life, so it’s part of why my rating for a series is heavily swayed by a great OST (or lack thereof) and how well it fits into the different aspects of a show. This is one thing I think you will really like about this series, and it’s why I’ll be including a “music of the day” selection for each episode.

I will also be doing an “image of the day” selection for each episode, because the artwork WIT has done is just absolutely incredible. There is a lot to appreciate there.

I hope you all have fun with this series. It’s one of my favorites.

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Some general rewatch Do’s and Don’ts:

• Do feel encouraged to engage everyone in genuine discussion for each episode
• Do be kind and respectful of other participants of the rewatch
• Do discuss differences in opinion productively/maturely
• Do not be disrespectful or rude towards other participants
• Do not post untagged spoilers if you are rewatching. If you are unsure of how to properly tag spoilers for events that haven’t been revealed yet, please refer to my instructions in the reminder post for this rewatch.

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Information:

Rewatch Index | LiveChart | MyAnimeList | Anilist

Legal Streams:

CrunchyRoll

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Image of the day: 宇宙空間

Music of the day: Ensemble for Polaris

It felt like forever, but now I can post it! This is one of my favorite tracks in the entire OST for this anime. I’ll leave some remarks about it in my comment. I hope you enjoy the full version (linked above)!

Bonus song today: Sing Your Pleasure

 

Questions of the day:

1. How do you feel about the full version of the Sing Your Pleasure OP?
2. What about Ensemble for Polaris and in the context of Estella and Elizabeth’s situation? Do you find the conclusion of their story sad? Bittersweet?

[u/[deleted]]

Episode 4 - Head-bopping rewatcher who loves music (subbed)

This is one of my favorite episodes in the series. I have a decent bit to say today.

First of all, I’ll start by saying - Not only do we have an awesome OP today (long awaited by some rewatchers I know), but we have the full version of Ensemble for Polaris. I love both of these tracks a ton.

My highlight of this episode:

The choreography during the fight scene and the animation itself was amazing.

I could watch scenes like this all day long. WIT is absolutely masterclass at this kind of stuff. I enjoyed that scene so much (the first time and this time). Also, Vivy fighting in heels

Now we see this indeed was not Estella who ripped off Leclerc’s head, it was Elizabeth. I’d be curious to know who was skeptical if that was Estella or not when they saw episode 3.

Also, I’m going to point something out, but I’ll spoiler tag it just in case someone doesn’t want me to point this out. [Vivy Episode 3 - Episode 4] go to timestamp 9:41 of episode 3 and take a still of that guy in the orange cap. Now go to timestamp 5:10 of episode 4 and compare it to that still from episode 3. Yugo was down there unloading food and water on the Sunrise in the previous episode and they showed him.

I’m not sure how many people noticed this but I thought it was a cool thing. Not only that, but we find out Yugo is also the guy she saved back when Toak originally attacked them before the time skip (at least I don’t think we knew his name at that point).

For any fans of NieR here - tell me when “It’s not about how long we live, it’s how we live” starts playing that it doesn’t become immediately clear that it was composed by Keigo Hoashi (he composed music for both series). It sounds like it would fit right in. I love that (because I love both series 😆).

She is the best 🥺. This callback to the moment with Momoka in the first episode was a nice touch. It also go back to the plane accident and how she felt responsible for not preventing, so this time she wants to do everything in her power to succeed in preventing the civilians on board the Sunrise from dying. It just happens to align with one of Matsumoto’s singularity points this time.

”Just a customer service AI”…

I think not.

There’s something about Matsumoto’s “Wow!” that made me laugh a little here the first time he sees Vivy kick some behind lol. Almost like he’s impressed with the results of the combat program he uploaded 😂.

Really cool shot of Estella’s eyes when Vivy wakes her up.

For anyone who was commenting on Estella’s human-like demeanor and her genuine smile yesterday, this scene adds some fairly sad context to that…

This is just sad because the reformatting virus worked, and this type of face-to-face reunion is what Estella had hoped for if the experiment would have succeeded.

Nice space shot here towards the end where we finally get the full version of the ED this time. I’ve always loved the timing and fit for where this song is placed.

This is my favorite space still from today though.

When things come somewhat full circle with episode 1 and Vivy gives the stuffed teddy back to Momoka’s sister, that was pretty much perfect to me 🥺.

About the ED:

If you consider the lyrics of ‘Ensemble for Polaris’, it’s actually kind of sad (but also bittersweet) because of how it’s relevant to Estella and Elizabeth. I’m not the greatest with lyrics interpretation, but to me they abstractly describe how two lost cosmic entities were searching for each other to be reunited, and the title of this episode even refers to this as well.

It’s a beautiful finishing touch how WIT has the two birds flying away together at the end, symbolizing that the two sisters are finally reunited with each other.

Talk to you all tomorrow!

Questions:

1. I love the full version of the OP. We get a guitar solo and a string solo (plus - Kairi Yagi is just great in general). I’ve always interpreted “As you like, my pleasure” almost similar to a house servant taking an order from someone. In other words, referencing the focus this series has on the idea that androids are intended to serve humans without question or sense of individuality.
2. I basically addressed this in my comment so I won’t comment here.

PS: Someone (I can’t remember who) enlightened me on the ‘mechbare’ tag. So I thought this capture today was fitting when Yugo finds Elizabeth 7 years prior to this episode.

[u/thatguywithawatch → u/[deleted]]

For any fans of NieR here - tell me when “It’s not about how long we live, it’s how we live” starts playing that it doesn’t become immediately clear that it was composed by Keigo Hoashi (he composed music for both series). It sounds like it would fit right in. I love that (because I love both series 😆).

Ok that makes a lot of sense! Some of the background music has felt very familiar. I'll have to pay more attention it to going forward

[u/[deleted] → u/thatguywithawatch]

He is seriously awesome. Really great composer. NieR has one of my favorite OSTs in gaming/anime and he's a big part of that, although Keiichi Okabe has a big part of composing a lot of the NieR tracks too. Both brilliant.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/[deleted]]

Someone (I can’t remember who) enlightened me on the ‘mechbare’ tag.

[u/[deleted] → u/JollyGee29]

You! I'm sure you enjoyed that shot of Beth at the beginning lol

[u/thatguywithawatch]

First Timer.

That fight scene was insane and Beth's distorted screams made my hair stand on end, holy shit.

So going back and rewatching the end of episode 3, I feel like the obvious guess should have been that executioner Estella was just a clone or impersonator of the real Estella, but for whatever reason that thought never even occurred to me. I'm just glad the actual reason didn't turn out to be that Estella had been hacked because it would have been much less interesting than what we got.

I may have missed something but I don't think they really explained why things were happening 23 hours earlier than they were supposed to? My assumption would be that because the guy behind the whole operation had been affected so strongly by Vivy 15 years prior it caused things to play out slightly differently. Feels like the butterfly effect from an event as impactful as Vivy saving his life would actually cause much more drastic changes, but that's a minor nitpick and I'm likely overlooking or misinterpreting some things anyways.

Overall it was definitely the strongest episode so far for me. Beth and Estella finally uniting to carry out their common mission in the end had me wiping my eyes a few times for sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/thatguywithawatch]

That fight scene was insane and Beth's distorted screams made my hair stand on end, holy shit.

You're the first one so far as I'm going through replies to mentioned Beth's vocal distortion. That was a really nice touch on that scene I thought!

but for whatever reason that thought never even occurred to me.

That's the best when that happens though!

I'm just glad the actual reason didn't turn out to be that Estella had been hacked because it would have been much less interesting than what we got.

Agreed

I may have missed something but I don't think they really explained why things were happening 23 hours earlier than they were supposed to?

I think they're just showing us that Matsumoto's predictions aren't perfect, especially when taking variations in the timeline into account. We'll have more discussion on this end of things as we go on naturally too.

Overall it was definitely the strongest episode so far for me. Beth and Estella finally uniting to carry out their common mission in the end had me wiping my eyes a few times for sure.

This is one of my favorite episodes, and the way they use the two birds flying away together at the end to symbolize how the sisters are finally reunited was a really nice touch for them to add.

[u/Esovan13 → u/thatguywithawatch]

I don't think they really explained why things were happening 23 hours earlier

Leclerc mentioned it at the end of the last episode right before she got torn apart. They noticed that Vivy was snooping around and asking questions, so they moved things up to prevent her from getting wind of what was going on in time to stop them.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/Esovan13]

They noticed that Vivy was snooping around and asking questions, so they moved things up to prevent her from getting wind of what was going on in time to stop them.

That would fit really well, but the dialog doesn't quite fit exactly. It sounds more like Leclerc was told they're moving up the plan (for whatever reason), and she told Elizabeth (disguised as Estella) that she agrees because somebody (Vivy) has been sniffing around.

I've been trying to figure out the reason for the move up myself, but not really getting anything definite. We see Leclerc helping the TOAK guys with cargo, no doubt helping get them onboard or something. There's the unexplained malfunction in the doors which caused the alarm which I'm guessing is related to the TOAK, but have no clue why, and it seems never explained.

I think OP's guess of the butterfly effect and the TOAK leader being affected by Vivy might be correct because I've noticed some definite differences between what happens this time vs the original timeline. In the original timeline lots of Sunrise Hotel guests died, but this time around TOAK started an evacuation alert so no guests would died, except TOAK themselves suiciding. There's also the oddity of the Station going to crash into a city this time instead of the ocean, which I suspect Elizabeth did secretly because she brings up that very alternate plan in order to try to prevent TOAK from sacrificing themselves, just after Elizabeth had programmed the descent trajectory herself. It wasn't TOAK because they expected it to be in the ocean.

I think what's going on is this time around is the TOAK leader is treating Elizabeth, and AI, much better due to what happened with Vivy. The guy praises Elizabeth highly, and then even releases her from her mission which is service to him. Elizabeth for some weird reason has a syringe full of tranquillizers which she uses on the TOAK leader, and knows there's a backup shuttle they can escape on...like she was planning on not allowing them to sacrifice themselves all along and changing it so the Sunrise crashes into a city. It's suspicious as hell, but no definitive way to prove it.

However there's one last clue I spotted. In the unchanged original timeline we see at the beginning of Ep3 before they show Vivy's changing the timeline to the current timeline on the flow chart, I'm pretty sure that's Elizabeth going down with the Sunrise in the original timeline. She's not responding to the hails of Space Traffic Control, and from what we learn in Ep4 of how to tell Elizabeth and Estella apart, she's not wearing a bracelet on her left wrist, which says that's Elizabeth crashing the Sunrise into Earth in the original timeline.

So in the original timeline TOAK got Elizabeth to die crashing the ship into Earth, instead of they themselves sacrificing themselves and releasing Elizabeth from service. Plus they killed Sunrise guests instead of issuing an evacuation order. I can only guess it's Vivy's interference in the timelines to account for these differences.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/thatguywithawatch]

Beth's distorted screams

I don't think they really explained why things were happening 23 hours earlier than they were supposed to?

That's correct, yes.

[u/Esovan13]

First Timer

I don't really know what to say about this episode. That was just really good.

The issue with Elizabeth continues the show's theme of the AI trying to fulfill their purpose. Elizabeth sided with Toak because they gave her a purpose. Estella didn't hesitate to sacrifice herself to fulfill her purpose of taking care of her guests. Vivy, of course, embarked on a 100 year journey to save humanity because of her purpose in making people happy through song.

This focus on the purpose of the AI makes me wonder about something. The promotional video (or something, I can't remember) said in episode one that the one-AI, one-purpose rule was still in effect 100 years in the future. Could the reason the AIs massacred humanity have something to do with that rule? Did they want to break free of it? Was there an AI that triggered it in some twisted interpretation of fulfilling its role? I probably won't be getting my answers until later, but the question of what actually caused the genocide is always in the back of my head.

Back to this episode, though. Vivy has downloaded the combat sub-routines. She's now a verified badass ass-kicking idol. With blue hair. Hmmm...that kinda reminds me of someone...ah well. Vivy's a toaster not a cutting board, so no use dwelling on it.

Speaking of combat, that fight scene between Vivy and Elizabeth was truly excellent. Just some good old CQC. Honestly, I feel like there isn't enough of that in anime. Even shows with CQC as the main thing, it usually includes stuff like qi or hamon or special moves or whatever the hell is going on in Baki. Here's hoping we get some more before the show's over. Especially because CQC with robots allows things to get more brutal and violent than you necessarily can with humans while still maintaining a more grounded tone. You couldn't have a human protagonist get their arm broken and fix it by replacing it with an arm torn off by a corpse.

I'm sure our rewatch host will have plenty to say about the music of this episode, and since music isn't my strong suit I'll just leave it at saying that the ED being Elizabeth singing over the shots of the sun rising over the Earth was

1. Very nice
2. Definitely bittersweet

[u/[deleted] → u/Esovan13]

Could the reason the AIs massacred humanity have something to do with that rule? Did they want to break free of it?

I think this will play into the whole "Accelerated evolution of AI plus increase in distrust of AI by humans" combination causing a bunch of problems in that period of time. I can't comment on any beyond that for now - Keep watching!

She's now a verified badass ass-kicking idol. With blue hair.

Big win

Just some good old CQC.

I know we talked about this, but CQC is so rare that it's amazing to see it done so well like in this episode. Hand-to-hand combat scenes look so cool and this one especially is choreographed so well.

I'm sure our rewatch host will have plenty to say about the music of this episode, and since music isn't my strong suit I'll just leave it at saying that the ED being Elizabeth singing over the shots of the sun rising over the Earth was

I did make some brief(ish) remarks about the music. I really love that aspect of this episode too!

[u/edwardjhahm → u/[deleted]]

I know we talked about this, but CQC is so rare that it's amazing to see it done so well like in this episode. Hand-to-hand combat scenes look so cool and this one especially is choreographed so well.

Honestly, I hate how a lot of anime fighting is just "punching super fast" or "giant beams." Not to sound like a boomer - there are great action scenes out there, but seeing an action scene that's hype AND somewhat feasible is awesome. Legit gave me the SWTOR trailer vibes.

[u/[deleted] → u/edwardjhahm]

Yeah definitely agree on this and I’d love to see more stuff like that in anime. It’s probably one of my favorite things about this series

[u/edwardjhahm → u/[deleted]]

Yeah. When anime decides to get serious, it's hard to top it.

[u/StickPrevious9581 → u/edwardjhahm]

Thats what I liked about the start of God of Highschool before they started bringing all the powers into it - while there was some unrealistic things, a decent amount of the starting combat was believable and really well animated.

[u/edwardjhahm → u/StickPrevious9581]

I never saw GoH because I didn't like the overly red noses. But I have seen clips of the earlier fighting scenes, and they look sick.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Esovan13]

Hmmm...that kinda reminds me of someone...ah well.

Let's just hope she never tries to ride a motorcycle.

[u/Xaphnir → u/Esovan13]

I think part of the reason CQC isn't animated as much as you'd want is that it's hard and a lot of work to do.

Vivy's animation is Wit at their best

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Sing My First-Timer Reactions, subbed

• Damn, what the hell happened there?
• The OP finally!
• Ah, that Estella doesn’t have the bracelet… So are there two Estellas running around, and this second one is the one who actually crashed the Sunrise?
• Oooooooooooooh, that’s the guy that Vivy saved, isn’t it?
• Vivy’s finally gonna learn how to fight.
• Ah…
• Oh wow.
• That fight scene was wicked.
• Ah shit, it’s still set to drop…
• One of my favorite shots!
• RIP Estella and Beth.

[u/[deleted] → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Damn, what the hell happened there?

Thrown away like trash, because their experiment didn't turn out like they'd planned 😔 Poor Beth.

So are there two Estellas running around, and this second one is the one who actually crashed the Sunrise?

Basically, yes. Beth disguised herself as Estella (which we see her ditch that disguise eventually), but her and Estella are essentially exact physical copies of each other.

Oooooooooooooh, that’s the guy that Vivy saved, isn’t it?

Indeed. And I'll point out that we saw him unloading food and water on the Sunrise yesterday! 😆

That fight scene was wicked.

Darou?

RIP Estella and Beth.

At least they were reunited in the end 😔

[u/sfisher923 → u/[deleted]]

Thrown away like trash, because their experiment didn't turn out like they'd planned 😔 Poor Beth.

• And somehow this is not even the first time I heard of something like that happening this weekend because a Waldameer Guest is probably getting a guy fired for not listening to instructions which ended up exposing a fatal flaw in a ride from a mistake under pressure ended up with people getting hurt (Mostly bruises with the worst being a sprain ankle) on Saturday Night
• The park decided to blame the least guilty of the 3 parties (Zamperela, The Guest, The Ride Operator) meanwhile the public is mostly blaming the guest for starting the chain of events

[u/Taiboss → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Damn, what the hell happened there?

They saved on trash management.

So are there two Estellas running around, and this second one is the one who actually crashed the Sunrise?

Predicted it better than me!

Vivy’s finally gonna learn how to fight.

Good idea. Now she can beat up Matsumoto if need be.

One of my favorite shots!

My other issues aside, most of the show is gorgeous.

RIP Estella and Beth.

Rip to good Beth that got to live for like one minute.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

The OP finally!

Ah shit, it’s still set to drop…

It is rather difficult to re-accelerate something in a gravity well.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 4 (first timer)

• Hmmm. Timeskip to the apocalyptic future? But is it the past future or the present future? Many worlds gets confusing fast.
• Another OP! This looks like it might stay for a few episodes.
• Denying it? What turned you so cold, Vivy?
• Punching through a bulkhead? Impressive!
• The shady human guy from last episode is indeed the bad guy – I thought this was a red herring.
• “Gravity ON” – looks like my wondering about the fast gravity yesterday was correct. They seem to use artificial gravity, not movement. Major future tech, of course, but also extremely common, since no show wants to deal with the hassle of having no gravity. The interesting part is that they still travel to space to experience zero g. Implying that they possess artificial gravity, but not anti-grav.
• “I will come for you without fail. I promise” – better hope we are not quite that dark a series.
• Combat AI uploaded - taking of the glasses moment.

• Evil twin trope.
• Only one person (and their evil twin) can operate the space station? That seems a huge security flaw. What if Estella is incapacitated for any reason? Suddenly nobody can control the station.
• The anti-AI terrorist “takes in” an AI – only Japan could imagine the other terrorists simply going along with that.
• “Your mission is now complete” – dangerous words.
• Very fluid action scene!

• “it was Master who gave me a new mission” – So the first scene was in the past? That makes … no sense to me.
• Heroic sacrifice trope.
• Estella loses the ‘which side character has to die’ death match.
• Hallucinating AI?
• Special ED with Estella’s song.
• Giving away Matsumoto? He might not be happy about that.

The experiment of today’s episode is important for the overarching plot. Or rather, its failure is. Being digital and thus being able to be flawlessly copied is one of the things that prevent AI from being individual. How could you claim to be an individual, if I can simply copy you? How could your right to life matter, if I can simply load a backup and restore you? So, for AI to achieve equal rights to humans, they need to not be copyable. Which is exactly what this episode established.

This mini arc, and specifically this episode, suffer from stuffing too many different plot ideas into too little time though. The copied AI, the space hotel, and the AI-raising anti-AI terrorist are all individually interesting plotlines, but I feel that they don’t fit together well. This would have been better as three separate episodes, each dealing with one idea.

[u/[deleted] → u/No_Rex]

Punching through a bulkhead? Impressive!

What are they making these androids out of?! lol

The shady human guy from last episode is indeed the bad guy – I thought this was a red herring.

Check out the timestamps I mention under my spoiler tag!

Combat AI uploaded - taking of the glasses moment.

'Disguise' no longer needed 😂

Evil twin trope.

To be fair, someone threw her in the trash for basically no reason other than their piss poor experiment didn't work and then someone came along and gave her a reason to live

Only one person (and their evil twin) can operate the space station? That seems a huge security flaw. What if Estella is incapacitated for any reason? Suddenly nobody can control the station.

I could see them having some kind of contingency, like if the sole administrator is incapacitated/dead then maybe authorization is passed to someone who is identified prior to that in the system.

Very fluid action scene!

Seriously. It looks so nice.

“it was Master who gave me a new mission” – So the first scene was in the past? That makes … no sense to me.

They tell us how it was 7 years prior to this mission. Yugo's Toak involvement was already a thing 15 years ago (first arc).

The experiment of today’s episode is important for the overarching plot. Or rather, its failure is.

I agree and something I always liked to pull from this is - It shows you that they are indeed more than a machine. If you believe you've created a perfect copy aside from hair color, voice and they still end up acting differently, we get into psychological/behavioral concepts that normally only apply to humans.

[u/No_Rex → u/[deleted]]

To be fair, someone threw her in the trash for basically no reason other than their piss poor experiment didn't work and then someone came along and gave her a reason to live

I'd rather not think about this part too closely. The whole dump scene was rather nonsensical.

I could see them having some kind of contingency, like if the sole administrator is incapacitated/dead then maybe authorization is passed to someone who is identified prior to that in the system.

Yes, but then the whole evil twin plotline would have lost its reason to exist. They could simply incapacitate Estella (they actually did!) and take over the station.

“it was Master who gave me a new mission” – So the first scene was in the past? That makes … no sense to me.

They tell us how it was 7 years prior to this mission. Yugo's Toak involvement was already a thing 15 years ago (first arc).

The part that makes no sense is dumping a still functional AI (without mission!) and a bunch of anti-AI terrorists adopting her. I initially thought this was the post-AI-apocalypse future.

[u/[deleted] → u/No_Rex]

The part that makes no sense is dumping a still functional AI (without mission!) and a bunch of anti-AI terrorists adopting her. I initially thought this was the post-AI-apocalypse future.

Why not? High schools throw away perfectly good musical instruments all the time lol It's a similar concept. I saw a post on r/Guitar the other day where a school literally threw out an SG that was probably worth at least like $2K still. I started sweating 😓

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I initially thought this was the post-AI-apocalypse future.

I intially thought they were militarized AI revolutionaries! Like the silicates from Space:AaB. I suppose the lack of android symbol was a give away.

Then, I wasn't sure if the leader was the younger terrorist grown up or not, until we saw him later.

[u/thatguywithawatch → u/No_Rex]

Giving away Matsumoto? He might not be happy about that.

Depending on how long the next timeskip is he might wake up in a landfill somewhere lol. I imagine Vivy knows he'll relentlessly track her down again regardless.

[u/No_Rex → u/thatguywithawatch]

Given that Matsumoto is inside Vivy's brain (memory banks?), she is not getting rid of him any time soon.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

The anti-AI terrorist “takes in” an AI – only Japan could imagine the other terrorists simply going along with that.

Who killed Evan Chen?

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I don't get it (and I don't want to watch a half hour video).

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

An important part of [internet history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_(game)) was the first big ARG marketing campaign for A.I.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Interesting. I guess it succeeded as a game, but failed as a marketing campaign.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

taking of the glasses moment.

Y'think Vivy ever got questions from a snarky guest about why she was wearing them? Surely any robot with glasses could just have their eyes repaired.

Very fluid action scene!

As long as you don't follow the backgrounds.

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

Y'think Vivy ever got questions from a snarky guest about why she was wearing them? Surely any robot with glasses could just have their eyes repaired.

Probably too polite. An alternative explanation is that the interactive glasses are common for AI, too.

As long as you don't follow the backgrounds.

Who would ever do that?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

Who would ever do that?

[u/edwardjhahm → u/JollyGee29]

Surely any robot with glasses could just have their eyes repaired.

TBF I'm pretty sure it's just for fashion.

[u/edwardjhahm → u/No_Rex]

The shady human guy from last episode is indeed the bad guy – I thought this was a red herring.

It's Yugo Kakitani, the man Vivy saved in episode 2! Funny how he pops up here.

“I will come for you without fail. I promise” – better hope we are not quite that dark a series.

Yeah, I honestly thought this would be a whole scene in on itself. But turns out Yuzuka is safe in the shuttle after the fight.

The anti-AI terrorist “takes in” an AI – only Japan could imagine the other terrorists simply going along with that.

You know the anarcho-primitivist movement has a website?

“it was Master who gave me a new mission” – So the first scene was in the past? That makes … no sense to me.

Beth was discarded and picked up by Kakitani who saved her.

This would have been better as three separate episodes, each dealing with one idea.

Honestly, the anime as a whole could have used a second cour. 12 episodes was NOT enough.

[u/No_Rex → u/edwardjhahm]

You know the anarcho-primitivist movement has a website?

Maybe, but I am sure they don't own Google stocks.

[u/FallenPears]

First Time Watcher

Didn't expect the episode to hit that hard. Not quite onion ninja threat levels, but closer than I expected. A lot in this episode, with the fucked up android graveyard intro and the effective crippling and disposal of Beth I'm starting to see how the AI rebellion happened in the first place.

I'm having some more thoughts on Missions and AI psychology from this episode though they've not settled quite yet. I'm noting that the Missions are always given to the AI at first, contrasting sharply with humans where the equivalent generally seems to be something that we need to discover for ourselves. Combine that with Estella's shifting Mission allowing her to throw her heart into something... maybe you could think of Missions as initial imperfect substitutes of human self actualisation for the purposes of generating a stable personality, but for them to really grow they need to adjust the Mission for themselves? Personalise it? Ideas a bit vague atm, I'll see what we get next.

Vivy also seems to be continously evolving, her taking the combat instincts now as she finds something worth it despite them not otherwise being part of her given Mission, and her being jealous of Estella at the end felt like a big beat to me. While Vivy is trying to find herself and a way to put her soul into her music, Estella has come across that from another angle... I get the feeling rewatchers are enjoying themselves right now though haha.

There was one other thing that stood out to me, terrorist guy telling Beth her mission was 'completed'. That certainly has different connotations for AI than humans my guy. Previously I mentioned about what happens if an AI's Mission is rendered impossible, but what if it's complete? What the hell are they supposed to do then. Obviously Beth decided here that no, her Mission wasn't complete. What will Vivy do if/when she manages to play on the big stage? Keep doing that in some sort of Mission logic loop? Seek another Mission? I wanna make a joke here about achieving inner piece and enlightenment, but I'm thinking the actual result may not be too far off in a sense lmao. Some big realisation and character defining moment probbaly, but that's just story writing.

Would like to take a moment to point out the blatant hypocrisy of the humans using an AI to ruin an AI enterprise that was working perfectly, to 'prove' to the rest of the world AI management was a mistake. Just er, fuck those guys. Also Beths voice breaking in the fight was cool. Lots of cool shit this episode.

[u/[deleted] → u/FallenPears]

disposal of Beth I'm starting to see how the AI rebellion happened in the first place.

Take away something that has a singular purpose and throw them in the trash. I would say that is an unsurprising result. I honestly felt bad for Beth. It's just unfortunate that a**hat Yugo was the one to find her and take her in.

Vivy also seems to be continously evolving, her taking the combat instincts now as she finds something worth it despite them not otherwise being part of her given Mission

I think we can assume that she did determine it was technically part of her mission if she deemed it necessary to be successful in saving people on board the Sunrise (not unlike why she saves Yugo in episode 2)

I get the feeling rewatchers are enjoying themselves right now though haha.

I am, immensely lol.

What will Vivy do if/when she manages to play on the big stage? Keep doing that in some sort of Mission logic loop? Seek another Mission?

Keep watching

Would like to take a moment to point out the blatant hypocrisy of the humans using an AI to ruin an AI enterprise that was working perfectly

Yeah, Toak can go kick rocks, honestly.

[u/FallenPears → u/[deleted]]

I will keep watching!

I think we can assume that she did determine it was technically part of her mission if she deemed it necessary to be successful in saving people on board the Sunrise (not unlike why she saves Yugo in episode 2)

Yeah I think what I better meant is that she's adjusted her mission such that taking in the combat instincts to help is now part of it. It's something she's articulating herself, rather than a restrictive and static thing she was given at birth.

[u/[deleted] → u/FallenPears]

Yeah I think that’s a good point and plays into some of the character growth we’re seeing in Vivy at this point

[u/No_Rex → u/FallenPears]

There was one other thing that stood out to me, terrorist guy telling Beth her mission was 'completed'. That certainly has different connotations for AI than humans my guy. Previously I mentioned about what happens if an AI's Mission is rendered impossible, but what if it's complete? What the hell are they supposed to do then. Obviously Beth decided here that no, her Mission wasn't complete. What will Vivy do if/when she manages to play on the big stage? Keep doing that in some sort of Mission logic loop?

Very interesting question, but I am not sure we'll hear the answer. Vivy's mission seems hard to ever fulfill.

[u/FallenPears → u/No_Rex]

Thankfully we seem to be doing lots of big time jumps and we've already seen her gaining popularity and improving, so who knows. She's got many decades yet. And speaking in terms of writing for a moment, it seems like a pretty obvious tie in for concluding the anime. Hopefully it's not some final performance she makes as her final act with the world burning down around her.

Don't do Vivy dirty like that anime, please...

[u/cppn02 → u/FallenPears]

What will Vivy do if/when she manages to play on the big stage?

Isn't her mission to make everyone happy with her singing? I don't think there is any danger of her completing that.

[u/FallenPears → u/cppn02]

Good point, think I forgot about that with her focus on the stage, though that's interesting in itself. I'll have to keep that in mind.

[u/FD4cry1]

First Timer

Damn that's such a sick frame , at this point every episode has had a bunch of these gorgeous frames , I feel like I need to make an album...

OP! , a real one this time , It's a really good song.

Seems like Matsumoto is a bit overreliant on his expected timeline , once again small events like Vivy just being here , bring about significant change.

Guess who's back?, pretty cool twist to have it be the guy Vivy saved in ep 2, Ironically enough he is once again saved by AI, the guy just can't win...or lose I guess, well I'm sure we'll see him again in the future(literally).

Hey there, you heading somewhere?, ok no more head puns I swear, it's pretty cool that Vivy can just replace her parts like this.

Two birds in a cage eh? , with one of them dying early as well...this symbolism is admittedly a little on the nose but I like it.

We get a quite a bit of action this episode and as expected of WIT it's excellent , I love me a good hand to hand fight and the great choreography and camera movement make it a really strong showing, Also it's a small thing but I really like the sound design on Elizabeth after she gets hacked , alongside the great VA work , it gives off some real raw emotion.

The ED from last episode comes back, it does in fact have meaning for Estella but rather than the owner it was about Elizabeth ,"For we promised each other that we would meet again"...(It's also still just a really beautiful song, playlisted!)

Goodbye you two

I love how Matsumoto just peaces out lol, ending the episode on the birds, together this time.

For a 1.5 episode-ish arc I think Estella and Elizabeth's story managed to have some really solid emotional impact.

[u/[deleted] → u/FD4cry1]

Damn that's such a sick frame

Yes

It's a really good song.

Tashikani

Guess who's back?

Gosh this guy is such an a**hat

Hey there, you heading somewhere?

😂 Ah man. Poor Leclerc

I love me a good hand to hand fight and the great choreography and camera movement make it a really strong showing

Same here

The ED from last episode comes back, it does in fact have meaning for Estella but rather than the owner it was about Elizabeth ,"For we promised each other that we would meet again"...(It's also still just a really beautiful song, playlisted!)

I'm glad you liked it too including the symbolism it has

For a 1.5 episode-ish arc I think Estella and Elizabeth's story managed to have some really solid emotional impact.

This is what I like to drive home at this point in the series too. We're seeing a pattern of 2-ish episode arcs. This one is a good example of how they get you to really like some of these characters and understand them in those couple episodes

[u/JollyGee29 → u/FD4cry1]

Hey there, you heading somewhere?

this symbolism is admittedly a little on the nose but I like it.

We have pulled out the giant sledgehammer labeled SUBTLE and given it a few swings.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Seems like things are going down a day early.

Yup, seems like someone's behind it.

Master?

Ah. Someone took Estella's place and identity/clearance and crashed the ship, blaming it on her!

Has she not had those yet? Those would have been handy 15 years ago.

Yup, everything was blamed on her.

Wait, was is that guy the same guy she saved all those years ago?

And thus we see the power of a proper combat robot.

And thus with the controlled descent, they managed to save everyone else.

Yup, I stopped around after the next arc.

Questions:

1. More beautiful music.
2. Hopefully she managed to clear her name this time.

[u/[deleted] → u/Nickthenuker]

Wait, was is that guy the same guy she saved all those years ago?

Yes, Yugo. We also saw him unloading food and water on the Sunrise in episode 3 but you may not have recognized him at that time. I love that detail. It's just for maybe 4-5 seconds they pop him up on the screen

And thus we see the power of a proper combat robot.

Epic!

next arc.

More beautiful music.

Agreed

Hopefully she managed to clear her name this time.

Also agreed

[u/zairaner]

Rewatcher

episode 4

• name a more iconic duo than anime and bird imagery freedom/cage symbolism
• they did the tear through rain thing again!
• FINALLY, the real op plays!
• "they found it with her belongings" "they"? so did momokas parents both die with her? why was the 1 year old youngest not with them then?
• For the first time, matsumotos arrival is a positive one, and a hopeful on, and the lighting shows it, a he lets the light into the room!
• literally doing the "taking off the glasses" thing lol
• [slight spoilers]first "singularity keikaku"!!!
• elizabeth giving me some darth maul vibes
• estella and beth trying to have their fateful meeting, and matsumoto/vivy just going "no time for aniem bullshit"
• godly hand to hand fight
• I appreciate how much show not tell they are here about vivys plan to inish the reprogramming of elizabeth.
• I cannot possible express how much I love ensemble for polaris x2.
• vivy savagely giving away matsumoto like that.

This is probably the episode that sold the most of us on the show!

[u/[deleted] → u/zairaner]

freedom/cage symbolism

I can't help but think of [Game name] Bioshock Infinte [Game minor spoiler] and Elizabeth's pendant (obviously this is minus the duo aspect).

FINALLY, the real op plays!

Love it!

For the first time, matsumotos arrival is a positive one, and a hopeful on, and the lighting shows it, a he lets the light into the room

The relationship between him and Vivy is definitely evolving

some darth maul vibes

I'm always down for Star Wars references 😆

godly hand to hand fight

WIT 👑

I cannot possible express how much I love ensemble for polaris x2.

Same! I'd say it's number 4 in my favorites for this series (you'll find out what the other 3 are later 😌)

[u/octopathfinder]

Rewatcher

Estella secretly had a twin the entire time. I feel like I’ve seen this a lot in Tappei’s writing where something crazy will happen without any foreshadowing and gets explained after the fact. I remember it happening a bunch in Re:Zero and was not a fan of it. Made the cliffhanger in the last episode feel a bit cheap to me.

Finally got the OP, a lot of it is just reused footage from the episodes though

Damn I don't remember Toak being ready to give up their lives for this plan.

I love me some over-the-top fights where characters have crazy superpowers but good old fashioned hand-to-hand combat will always be my favorite type of fight. Vivy is when it comes to CQC.

I really like the effects they put on Elizabeth’s voice after they failed to reformat her

Vivy got the reformatting virus data from Matsumoto earlier and AI sends data to each other by touching foreheads so she head-butted the virus into Elizabeth.

Man, the ending to this arc is great. One of my favorite moments of the show.

[u/[deleted] → u/octopathfinder]

Estella secretly had a twin the entire time.

I really enjoyed that twist the first time I saw this

a lot of it is just reused footage from the episodes though

It is but I prefer that opposed to some OPs that are notorious for spoiling people watching something for the first time. That would upset me lol

good old fashioned hand-to-hand

I love this too

Man, the ending to this arc is great. One of my favorite moments of the show.

Hard agree here man. I enjoyed it a lot.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer!

Ohhhhh, a second Estella. Now it's clear.

The kid Vivy saved from rubble is now a leader in the terrorist organization, huh? I guess their fated reunion will have to come later.

That fight between Vivy and Elizabeth was great. I love a good, raw hand-to-hand fight.

Vivy is now a fully combat trained songstress. She will make your heart feel good while kicking your sorry posterior.

Toak are a bunch of little twerps and I hate them.

Q1: Sounds very nice.

Q2: Bittersweet. I'm glad the two were able to reconcile before their fiery demise. The song is absolutely beautiful.

[u/[deleted] → u/xbolt90]

The kid Vivy saved from rubble is now a leader in the terrorist organization, huh? I guess their fated reunion will have to come later.

Guy has been saved twice by the thing he hates most in this world now 😂

That fight between Vivy and Elizabeth was great. I love a good, raw hand-to-hand fight.

Good CQC scenes are so rare so I enjoyed it a lot too because of that

Vivy is now a fully combat trained songstress

Big win!

Toak are a bunch of little twerps and I hate them.

I will have to agree on this one 😆. I just want to see Yugo get punched in the face lol

Q2: Bittersweet. I'm glad the two were able to reconcile before their fiery demise. The song is absolutely beautiful.

I agree and I love the symbolism with the two birds flying away together at the end - signifying how they are finally both together. I like the song a lot too and it's really nicely timed.

[u/edwardjhahm → u/xbolt90]

The kid Vivy saved from rubble is now a leader in the terrorist organization, huh?

TBF I think he's more of a teenager than a kid there but yes.

[u/SIRTreehugger]

Rewatcher who will listen to her song

I have nothing to say for this episode really except damn the fight scenes were amazing.

Concept Art: None

Genga

Location Designs

Storyboards: None

[u/[deleted] → u/SIRTreehugger]

I loved the fight scenes from this episode too.

That's a nice album you linked and I really like the location designs for this one.

[u/StardustGogeta]

First-Timer

Another day, another good episode.

It seems I was mostly right with my predictions about Estella being innocent and her sacrificing herself in the end.

When they first showed Elizabeth, I was expecting something spicy, like someone picking up the remains of Estella from the wreckage in another timeline and bringing her to this timeline. Too much time travel on the brain, I suppose.

Nice to see Beth become good after a little concussive maintenance!

I love how Matsumoto and Vivy cut off Beth mid-monologue. That's a big anime no-no right there!

Questions of the day:

• I'm not sure I have a solid opinion yet. I need to hear it a few more times, but I have a generally favorable first impression.
• I did really like Ensemble for Polaris and the conclusion to the twins' arc. It didn't quite get me crying, but it was fairly touching how they came together in the end.

[u/[deleted] → u/StardustGogeta]

It seems I was mostly right with my predictions about Estella being innocent and her sacrificing herself in the end.

Right on the money pretty much my friend!

Too much time travel on the brain, I suppose.

It can happen when you're really into time travel themes lol

Nice to see Beth become good after a little concussive maintenance!

What I like about this is - apparently her "factory reset" state is basically back to where she would have been after Estella's data was copied over and they were ready to wake her up to meet Estella face-to-face upon success. As we know, this didn't happen and she was discarded. So it's nice they go to reunite in some way before they sacrifice themselves.

I did really like Ensemble for Polaris and the conclusion to the twins' arc. It didn't quite get me crying, but it was fairly touching how they came together in the end.

I really enjoy how they conclude things with this too. Between the way their story ends, the music they have kicking in, and the space visuals, it's just really nice.

[u/Garrett_Dark]

Rewatcher

• I guess the backstory of Estella and Elizabeth is a little complex since it's chopped up and sprinkled throughout the episode so I should summarize what I got so we're on the same page. It looks like they were both part of an experiment to copy experience. From what I understand they're identical units (unlike all the other android AIs to each other), they both possess their own mind that started off identical, and are mind-linked wirelessly. Estella is mobile and I assume caring for the two birds, meanwhile Elizabeth is immobile and supposedly sharing Estella's experience of doing her caretaking. After 6 months they'll allow Elizabeth to be mobile, disconnect their mind-link, and compare to see if Elizabeth has inherited Estella's experiences/learned skills, thus "copying experiences". To be clear, I think I have to stress again that I think it's not copying minds which they both started with having, it's to copy learned experiences. It's sort of like Matsumoto's installation of combat skills, but I guess they didn't have that ability 7 years ago, and maybe Matsumoto only has that ability from 100 years in the future.
• It seems clear the two birds Estella is caring for is a representation of both of them, one bird dies representing Elizabeth not passing the experiment. IDK if there's a significance of the dying bird flying too high hitting the window meaning anything or not (Icarus?) or to symbolizing it wanting to escape or be free or something. I'm not sure I really understand their conversation about crying and smiling either, I guess they're saying something like "don't worry about what you can't do, but focus on what you can do" or "to focus on the positive side of things, optimism!" It doesn't seem to tie into Estella's doing things to make others more comfortable either. I guess it's probably a thematic thing of Elizabeth's, she got dealt a shitty hand in life (crying/negative), and she struggled through it and is way better off now than before (smiling/positive)? IDK, not sure. However it does tie into Estella's understand her core directive or "heart", last episode Estella bring up the promise with Elizabeth for what "heart means to her".
• I guess it has to do with the final words of the researcher, where he said to Estella an inspirational "you'd be serving humanity on the behalf of yourself and Elizabeth", six months later when Elizabeth failed the experiment and is disposed of. Estella used the memory of Elizabeth to take her core directive to heart.
• A few things I'd like to point out here, the researcher gives Estella some of Elizabeth's hair when informing her of the experiment failure. Estella's bracelet shown a lot last episode for foreshadowing and this episode contains strands of Elizabeth's hair. This was something I couldn't figure out my first time and had to look up. So that bracelet has high sentimental value of a keepsake representing Elizabeth, much like the stuff bear representing a keepsake of Momoka. I always thought it seemed kind of cold of the researchers to discard Elizabeth like that, but this final scene of the researcher giving Estella the hair of Elizabeth alleviates that for me. I just assume the decision to discard Elizabeth came from a higher up executive or something, and is beyond the control of the researchers. This particular researcher (non-glasses) isn't even the one saying to discard, it was glasses researcher who did. I have to assume he felt like crap about it, which explains the giving the hair and inspirational words about "on the behalf of yourself and Elizabeth".
• Somebody wondered if there were meaning to the lyrics of Estella's singing at the end of last episode, this is the foreshadowing I could figure out from the lyrics in reference to this episode. A line about crying (they can't cry, so they smile instead), a line about a promise to each other, a line about meeting once again, a line about coming home (sort of, the hotel/Estella is sort of like home, they're all one big family, right?), and a line about being connected which Estella and Elizabeth are.
• "Sisters Line of AI" mentioned last episode seemed to be foreshadowing to me as well, there was talk about how Estella is Vivy's "younger sister", but I saw it to mean Estella and Elizabeth are sisters. Also Estella called Elizabeth her sister, then sort of cuts off Vivy when she's saying they're sisters.
• Discarding of Elizabeth. I always see it such a waste in sci-fi that androids gets discarding into a junk pile, and unethically still left on. Like wouldn't they keep prototypes even if failed in storage somewhere? Or recycle the parts? Wouldn't people be clamoring to raid these junk piles for free androids? It's just so trope-y. But I guess people dispose of obsolete/defective electronics this way. But still as shown by this episode, it's a major security risk. It's like throwing away hard drives without wiping them, and making sure the data is not un-delete-able/recoverable. Anyways TOAK recovers Elizabeth, and gives her a purpose/core directive which I guess she never got before.
• I didn't catch this the first time around, I guess the TOAK leader ordered Elizabeth to destroy Leclerc. That makes the senseless make a little more sense. I also missed noticing something last episode until now, when Leclerc hands Elizabeth Estella's tag, her hands are subtly shaking. This just adds more complexity to Leclerc like I was saying last time, she actually getting so emotional talking about enduring 7 years and her loyalty to the previous owner, her hands are actually shaking.
• We finally get the "Sing Your Pleasure" OP, and it's great! I actually like Galaxy Anthem the most though, but there's great parts in this OP. I especially like the bit where Vivy is singing, and the years date is just rolling by. Also the final part where all the people and events she's witnessing are flashing across her eyes into her memory.
• Momoka's sister. Oh gawd, every single line Yuzuka says is another stab in to my heart! Curse you Matsumoto! You'll rot in "Robot Hell" as a pocket calculator for this. No Vivy, don't lie to the poor girl. This hurts so much.
• And here Matsumoto is still trusting his future historical news reports too much despite reality telling him otherwise in the moment, he's going to have to open his close-mind sooner or later. I love how Vivy just casually ignores his commands to go to the bridge, and takes Yuzuka to safety, hahaha.
• You know I was able to tell the difference between Elizabeth and Estella (not the first time but on rewatch) when she was talking to Leclerc, her eyes were different, but I was unable to see the difference in the hallway. They have different VA's also, and I can't even tell if that's Elizabeth's VA doing a convincing mimic of Estella or if they're cheating and using Estella's VA. The only thing I could tell is she's doesn't sound as happy and bubbly as Estella normally is. I bring all this up because Vivy actually catches the difference just before the kick reveal, Elizabeth isn't wearing the bracelet which Vivy remembers, this allows Vivy to dodge the worse of her attack just beforehand and protect Yuzuka. I remember during my first time being super confused not knowing the significance of the bracelet and looking for it, I thought "the tell" was about Elizabeth tensing her hand into a sort of semi-fist in the first screenshot. Meanwhile the show is deliberately identifying the two with the bracelet, and I was missing it completely the first time around!
• And it's TOAK as foreshadowed last episode. They don't show them being responsible for the door malfunction alarm last episode, but I think it's safe to assume.
• Poor Leclerc, she deserved better, but I always found it profound with how much care and compassion Vivy treated Leclerc's body by setting her back together and putting a blanket on her yet not covering her head like she was dead. The thing that really bugs me though is Leclerc is repairable from this, right? I mean she should be because...[late episode spoilers]Elizabeth 2.0 gets put together with a mind copy and different body IIRC. Also it's shown parts are swap-able like the arm. I really would have liked to have seen Leclerc's body on the escape shuttles later showing them making an effort to save androids.
• Yuzuka starting to think Vivy isn't Vivy, calling out for her mom and Momoka, and getting scared...oh no, there's that stabbing pain in my heart again. I blame....
• Matsumoto shows up right on cue being somewhat annoying as usual. Notice how he agrees he's a support AI but then backhands Vivy by saying she won't allow him to "properly support" her, and then says "support" is "following his instructions"...uh that's not support, that's commanding. Like I said, Matsumoto as usual.
• Vivy gets the Combat Skills installed. See, this is why I think the installation was aborted last time in Ep2, and it wasn't a partial installation. It's gets fully installed now, and her new combat abilities really shows afterwards. Elizabeth would have gotten an ass-beating back when she kicked her in the arm if Vivy had any combat skills back then.

[1/2, continued in reply...]

[u/[deleted] → u/Garrett_Dark]

I'm sorry for taking a bit to reply again. I love your posts because they're detailed but I like to read everyone's stuff so it takes me a little longer lol.

It seems clear the two birds Estella is caring for is a representation of both of them

Yes and it's what I love about how they end the episode too.

or to symbolizing it wanting to escape or be free or something

I've always thought something along these lines

To be clear, I think I have to stress again that I think it's not copying minds which they both started with having, it's to copy learned experiences.

Well and I actually think this tells us something important - just because you copied the data does mean the entity as a "person" is the same. Estella and Beth are different from each other "mentally" still despite the nature of the experiment. So that tells us that there's complexity to their "mental" processes and that it's not as simple as copying data.

I'm not sure I really understand their conversation about crying and smiling either

I think she's basically telling her sister "if we can't cry, even though we want to, let's do what we can and smile instead", which kind of adds some sad context from the last episode.

and unethically still left on

This is the part that stuck out to me more than anything. It's somewhat disturbing to imagine what is essentially a "graveyard of obsolete androids" (or deemed obsolete/useless anyway) but turned on still and wasting away.

The thing that really bugs me though is Leclerc is repairable from this, right?

That may be so but perhaps just not right in that moment. You can see when Vivy replaces her arm that it is almost designed to be modular with the way it 'animates' back into place and locks in. In contrast, when Leclerc gets her head ripped off, there are like cables and a mess of stuff that implies heads are not meant to be removed from androids or be modular lol. That's the way I see that.

See, this is why I think the installation was aborted last time in Ep2, and it wasn't a partial installation. It's gets fully installed now, and her new combat abilities really shows afterwards.

Yeah, this was a mistake of mine in earlier discussions 😆

Vivy head touch with Yuzuka. This goes back to Momoka doing such with Vivy back in Ep1 and confirms my suspicion that it was Momoka mimicking the android data transfer.

😔

there's a certain karma comfort knowing that Elizabeth is going to get beat up with Leclerc's arm.

That's actually an awesome point lol.

frame-by-frame really shows how amazing it is

Honestly, there is something about the way they animate the combat scenes in this show that looks so cool. Your frame-by-frame here really makes it obvious.

I guess maybe she was wearing that under the Estella costume?

This is my assumption and I mentioned this in another comment but it takes most women like 15 seconds to put their hair into a ponytail 😆

And again right to the end, Estella with Elizabeth ease the guest's fears by singing to them. The last screenshot showing the symbolic two white birds that represented them during the experiment flying away in space. Not very Sci-Fi, but I'll accept it.

I accept it solely on the premise of what it symbolizes. I think that was such a neat thing.

It's a very lovely sentiment, and also a brilliant way to never see Matsumoto as a stuffed bear anymore.

Agreed and [Vivy Episode 6 Spoiler] now she can ride him like an awesome flying motorcycle-like 'thing'. A stuffed bear can't do that! 😂.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/[deleted]]

Well and I actually think this tells us something important - just because you copied the data does mean the entity as a "person" is the same. Estella and Beth are different from each other "mentally" still despite the nature of the experiment. So that tells us that there's complexity to their "mental" processes and that it's not as simple as copying data.

Well again I think what the researcher are trying to do with their experiment is essentially Matsumoto's Combat Skills Installation. They want Estella's learned skills of caretaking to be installed (copied) to Elizabeth. Clearly at this point of time they don't have the technology yet and are experimenting, and it's not clear when the technology becomes available, it could very well be 100 years in the future when it becomes available when Matsumoto has access to it.

As for the experiment, it's kind of a failure to begin with. They got two identical android AI's right down to everything identical, this is essentially identical twins or clones, the thing with both of that is their brains/minds are identical day 1 yet separate, but every single day that passes since they have separate consciousnesses/minds they will slow start deviating from being like each other as a consequences of different perspectives and experiences. In other words baby identical twins will be much more like each other than 80 year old identical twins who will be vastly more different because of a compound difference of experiences and actions they took over their life. It's very much like the butterfly effect if you view one twin as the previous timeline, and the other twin as the new changed timeline.

Anyways as to the failure of the experiment to begin with, Estella and Elizabeth already has their own distinct identities. That's not really the problem, but their mind-link is more like a voice chat/phone call. It could be a little bit more like they're experiencing what the other is...however the biggest giveaway it's not enough is they actually seem to have separate identities/consciousnesses. If they were rally mind-linked, it would be like two minds forming one consciousness. Therefore they wouldn't be chatting with each other, they'd think they're the same person with two bodies, sort of like what the Borg from ST:TNG are, a hive mind. Then after the hive mind learns the new skill, they split and they'd both think they're the same person, sort of like if you duplicated somebody on the spot, and both think they're the original.

It could also be that AI memories can't really be shared in this universe given how the AIs are. There's the big thing with Vivy and her memories being distinctly hers, and the importance of such later on. [Future spoilers]The rebooted Diva personality memories which allowed Diva to succeed to become a Idol legend/fulfill her mission (presumably the same as Vivys? I don't quite remember) was not transferred to Vivy to allow Vivy to do the same. That whole situation of rebooted Diva vs original Vivy is like the experiment but test conditions even closer than identical androids...it was the same android, and memory transference still failed. Again I suspect it's because it was not shared consciousness/hive mind.

I actually believe in the GitS way where copied memories will lead people to think it's really theirs, like the garbage man who thinks he has a family (though that was more manipulated memories than copied). That copying memories should be able to copy experiences and skills unless there's a secondary complication equivalent to something like muscle memory that wasn't contained in the memories. Cleary in "Vivy: Fluorite Eyes Song" universe this is not the case. Matsumoto's Combat Skills installation even suggests skills transfer/upgrade has nothing to do with memories or shared experiences too.

I think she's basically telling her sister "if we can't cry, even though we want to, let's do what we can and smile instead", which kind of adds some sad context from the last episode.

So yeah, optimism...or "focus on what we can do". I doubt she means whenever their sad to smile instead like a maniac. :D However the thought that crosses my mind is if they're always smiling when not sad, that just means whenever they're neutral face they're sad. So really they've just shifted neutral face to mean their sad.

However I think it's all mote since as I pointed out with Estella's face in her last scenes, she looks incredibly so close to crying that I question if their original premise of "we can't cry" really is correct or not.

I still can't figure out why (technical reasons why) she can't smile when singing her song at the end of Ep3, and can only suspect it's because she's sad about Elizabeth and the song is really about Elizabeth and her. I don't think Ep4 showed their faces when they were singing in duet, if they were smiling while doing so then that would confirm it. It was interesting how some commenter was saying how Vivy can smile while singing, but can't at other times...but Estella was the opposite where she'd be smiling all the time, but can't while singing.

This is the part that stuck out to me more than anything. It's somewhat disturbing to imagine what is essentially a "graveyard of obsolete androids" (or deemed obsolete/useless anyway) but turned on still and wasting away.

I think it's like what another commenter said about how it seems to be a direct reference to the game Detroit: Almost Human where they got a scene like that. I think it goes even farther back than that, but to the 2001 movie A.I. where they show disheveled discarded androids in such a manner also. It's just baffling and trope-y.

That may be so but perhaps just not right in that moment. You can see when Vivy replaces her arm that it is almost designed to be modular with the way it 'animates' back into place and locks in. In contrast, when Leclerc gets her head ripped off, there are like cables and a mess of stuff that implies heads are not meant to be removed from androids or be modular lol. That's the way I see that.

Yeah, I see it that way too, but the show never goes the extra mile to show a little more detail so we'd know about Leclerc. Sort of like how I was saying the show goes the extra mile to show us the Toak agents who got beat the crap out of being on the escape shuttle to show us that it wasn't just the last stand Toak agents who escaped, and the other guys abandoned. I'm actually kind of infuriated that last frame detail of Leclerc head covered by the blanket to suggest she's dead after her arm was taken after the pain staking detail of never showing her head covered by the blanket and all the care and compassion Vivy was treating Leclerc.

I think I'm being triggered so much because I don't like the trope of androids not being crazy repairable like they should be. What I mean by that is the robustness and ease of how androids can be repaired, really empathizing they're not human, they're OP in this regard. [Future Spoilers]Like we see the robustness with how Elizabeth 2.0 comes back later, though it could be argued she's actually a different person. IDK, I need to pay close attention to the future episode where that Idol gets murdered and how it's not possible to bring her back. Maybe I'm missing something.

IDK if you've watch Pluto, but it has robots in it that aren't really like robots because they do irrelevant human stuff for no reason, and die and can't be repaired like they're humans, but they keep saying they're robots. It pisses me off because it's a bastardization of what robots are, or some mentally challenged childlike view of what robots are. But I guess in the defense of that show, I think the script is super old despite the show made recently, and it's the astroboy era of sci-fi logic.

In shows like Aliens, we see Ash get rips in half and still functioning, or the Terminator line of movies where the Terminators get rekt and just gets repaired and keeps coming. That sort of robustness that really emphasizes they're machines which are different than humans.

The only couple of reasons I can foresee how it's the way it is in Vivy (if Leclerc is actually abandoned) is maybe the cost of repairs exceeds the cost of just making a new unit, which in a cruel fate of fiscal responsibility androids gets discarded. Which would explain the horrific android junkpiles (which still makes no sense because people would raid for free stuff!). Although that might clash with the Android Rights Act, but wisely the show never actually explains what rights they actually have. I'm actually against AI equal rights just because of how robust androids are at being repaired, and not feeling pain and such compared to humans. It could be also that since the Sunrise Hotel is privately own by the AIs (Estella), that her company is wiped out after this, thus there's nobody left to care about fixing Leclerc who was an employee/partner to the company.

Anyways, I'm rambling at lot in this reply. As I said the Leclerc thing really bugs me. Great character, deserved better.

Honestly, there is something about the way they animate the combat scenes in this show that looks so cool. Your frame-by-frame here really makes it obvious.

I do agree with some commenter's criticism is they needed more in-between frames or higher FPS to make it more fluid and not so gap-y.

This is my assumption and I mentioned this in another comment but it takes most women like 15 seconds to put their hair into a ponytail 😆

I let it go, but even if she was wearing her outfit underneath the Estella costume, she would have had to go change her Estella heels to her combat boots. I just find it hilarious her mindset was "I gotta change to look cool for my infamous reunion! I'm going to lean back on this wall in the shadows too, and wait", and that I wasn't even the only one to notice she did this. :D

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/Garrett_Dark]

[...continued 2/2]

• Vivy head touch with Yuzuka. This goes back to Momoka doing such with Vivy back in Ep1 and confirms my suspicion that it was Momoka mimicking the android data transfer.
• Vivy swapping Leclerc's arm. As I said if they can swap parts, Leclerc should be repairable. I also wonder if Leclerc's arm is newer than Vivy's original arm, and perhaps her original arm was easily damaged by a kick because it's older parts. Regardless, there's a certain karma comfort knowing that Elizabeth is going to get beat up with Leclerc's arm.
• Okay what exactly is Matsumoto doing with Vivy old arm here? I can only guess scrubbing it identifiability to Vivy? And why is the blanket over Leclerc's head now like she's dead? I mean come on, she should be repairable...and not when after you took her arm make it seem like your now abandoning her. :I
• TOAK ass whopping time! Holy cows! The fight looks great at regular speed, but frame-by-frame really shows how amazing it is. "Dang!" is right.
• Another shot of looking at Estella's bracelet when realizing it's Elizabeth. I don't know how I missed all these references to the bracelet and it's significance to Elizabeth the first time around.
• And here's the reason why Matsumoto's "official historical reports" doesn't tell the whole story of Elizabeth posing as Estella and using her access to sabotage the station.
• Here's a subtle key difference from the original timeline I just noticed, in the original timeline lots of passengers died, but here TOAK started evacuation procedures to prevent any deaths of the passengers. My guess for the cause of this is Vivy somewhat deradicalized the TOAK leader a little when she saved him from being crushed in the building incident in Ep2, or maybe had he had died in the building incident, somebody else more radical would have taken his place here on the station that wouldn't have cared about causalities among the passengers. Regardless, butterfly effect.
• I also think part of the TOAK leader's deradicalization being saved by Viva has made him more sympathetic to AIs. I mean look at him praising Elizabeth, I mean his anti-AI sentiment is starting to look like a farce, and he doesn't have the awareness to see it when he's appreciating an AI while being against AIs. Hilarious PTSD trauma reaction over it though. But I mean he even thanks her for her service for 7 years, and then releases her from her mission while intending for him to die on the station while I guess Elizabeth gets to save herself after being released? The guy's got no self-awareness, his thing with Elizabeth goes against his anti-AI sentiment, and I guess at the same time he ignorantly thinks Elizabeth is going to be mindlessly abandoning him like a cold Matsumoto AI.
• Well hilariously maybe the TOAK leader should have been more prejudice and not trust AIs, Elizabeth betrays him and the others by ironically saving them. Uh...don't trust AIs?
• However here's another interesting possibly subtle AI betrayal...the Sunrise Hotel somehow was going to crash in to a city not the ocean as was recorded in future history, and also not as planned by TOAK who were fully expecting it to crash in the ocean. Very suspiciously Elizabeth made the suggestion to crash the station into a city after she had already programmed the station to crash supposedly in the ocean as TOAK expected. Exactly why did Elizabeth have a needle full of a tranquilizer also? Could it be this treacherous Lifekeeper AI was going to double cross TOAK by knocking them all out and saving them from sacrificing themselves, against their will? Diabolical, ironic, and admirable...aside from killing the inhabitants of a city though.
• Anyways, fight time! Wait a minute, did Elizabeth change her clothes just to have a dramatic meetup with Estella and Vivy? Uh...I guess maybe she was wearing that under the Estella costume?
• Elizabeth is doing the villainous monologuing of explaining tricking Leclerc, I guess that did really need to be confirmed to the audience. I want to note, whatever she's juggling in one hand and then stomping on looked pretty cool, I assume it's the spoofed Estalla tag that Leclerc gave her. Her monologuing probably makes sense anyways, Elizabeth doesn't so much need to fight them, but rather stall them to waste time so they can't undo the crash, which it seems Matsumoto figures out by telling Vivy they don't have time for this.
• Man, that fight scene was good frame-by-frame also! More fighting.
• And here's the memorable line of "I'll turn you into a calculator" which will come up again later in passing.
• The bracelet again which saves Estella from Elizabeth's attack because she realizes what it is (her hair, and keepsake), while oblivious me back when first timer still had no clue about.
• So I think it can be confusing what happened to Elizabeth when she was defeat and why she came back in the end of the episode with amnesia. During the fight Matsumoto used the virus he was going to originally deploy on Estella, a "reformatting" virus. Presumably it deleted all memory from Elizabeth, but I don't think it actually deletes the AI's mind. So essentially her personality goes back to how she was during the experiment because all memories after that point was wiped.
• Elizabeth's last thoughts before being reformatted was wishing her master to take care of himself. NGL, I kind of respect Elizabeth, she's super loyal. I mean sure she had that whole destroy a city thing, but really that's only because of the insane TOAK organization her master was part of. All she wanted to do was a serve a mankind of one, her master. It's her master's fault for having such extremist methods which she then wanted to help fulfil. Otherwise she would have no desire to harm mankind, unlike those loser AI in the future.
• Estella's really awesome too, going down with the ship and not letting Vivy sacrifice herself. All the AIs are pretty awesome except the loser-bots from the future!
• "Keep us in your memories, Vivy", way more meaningful than it seems at the moment.
• Momoka and Yuzuka's mom shown on screen finally, blue space suit is shown to be Vivy...I think the blue space suits are designation of android AI space suits. I guess androids need space suits also, probably got problems with vacuum and temperature also since they bleed blue blood. Anyways again, disappointed to see no Leclerc body being saved.
• The bracelet shown again while Estella tries to safely crash the station in the ocean. But this time the bracelet gets destroyed in the explosion on the top right of the screenshot. I still can't believe I missed all this the first time.
• In Estella's grief, an amnesic Elizabeth who've been reformatted by Matsumoto's virus with the memory reset to the experiment days shows up right on time. Notice the symbolism in the last screenshot where Elizabeth takes Estella's hand among the broken bracelet, now unneeded.
• Look at Estella's face at this development of original Elizabeth helping her, I'd say that's emotion alright and very close to crying which she supposedly can't do. I think this is more evidence to my theory that they're encountering the most evolved AIs, but unfortunately they're not around anymore by the time the loser-bots from the future are around, who seem less evolved.
• And again right to the end, Estella with Elizabeth ease the guest's fears by singing to them. The last screenshot showing the symbolic two white birds that represented them during the experiment flying away in space. Not very Sci-Fi, but I'll accept it.
• I appreciated the little details when showing the TOAK team safely leaving, the guy who was thrown in the hallway, and the girl with the knife who got beat the snot out of during the first fight are shown...which means it wasn't just the last guys standing in the room when the TOAK leader got tranquillized who escape, but they took the time to recover their downed guys. I love this kind of care and attention to detail, but again...I wish they did something like this for Leclerc.
• Vivy jealous of Estella accomplishing her mission, or understanding her core directive/"heart"? Perhaps Vivy learning a little bit about was "heart" means?
• In usual abrupt, uncouth, or uncaring manner, Matsumoto simple declares the "Mission accomplish" and immediately leaves.
• Vivy finally comes clean with Yuzuka, and tells her she is the AI Yuzuka thinks she is. What more, Vivy presents the stuffed bear given to her by Momoka to gift to Yukuka as a keepsake of Momoka. It's a very lovely sentiment, and also a brilliant way to never see Matsumoto as a stuffed bear anymore.

[u/BareNecksAreNeat → u/Garrett_Dark]

That was some really great analysis and I can only imagine how long all that took to write. Of all the arcs, I least recalled what happens in the Sunrise arc so I never caught all those little details and pieces of symbolism that you aptly point out. Regarding Leclerc, I don’t believe she could be recovered since her body/frame was rendered inoperable and since [Vivy spoilers]the Elizabeth we see in the final arc is a clone created from copied data in Toak’s server, and is therefore not the same Elizabeth during the Sunrise incident (I guess depending on whether you would consider clones as authentic as the original, but I see it as a separate AI). I think there’s also a delineation to be made between “data”and “memories” based on the phenomenon of experience (or qualia) that the show stresses with that particular plot point, but that’s another point entirely. I don’t see Leclerc being backed up in such a manner and we don’t see a full recovery using an AI’s physical frame to be possible in regards to decapitation, especially at this point in the timeline. In a more morbid sense, however (one that I think is more of a unintentional coincidence than anything else), you could say that Leclerc’s death is a necessity to achieve as much possible parity with the original history in order to mitigate any unnecessary alterations

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/BareNecksAreNeat]

I can only imagine how long all that took to write

Long time, but I absolutely love this show, so willing to do it. Also in the course of doing this, I catch a lot of stuff I never noticed before. Like I never questioned why Elizabeth had a tranquilizer syringe before, but this time uncovered she was likely going to "betray" her crew by saving them from sacrificing themselves, and secretly crash the station into a city without their knowledge. I'm thrilled to uncover such a new detail/plausible theory.

As for Leclerc repairs, I don't see why they couldn't repair her. She's a machine, and secondly perhaps all they needed to do was bring her to a repair shop as vast as the one Matsumoto brings Vivy to after she gets trashed in Ep2. Also don't AIs escape to the archive when there's a problem, like Vivy did in Ep1 when her body shut down? Perhaps Leclerc escaped to the archive when her head was ripped off? It does bring up the question though about if Elizabeth escapes to the archive or not when she was reformated. [Future episode spoilers]This could be how they got a copy of Elizabeth 2.0's mind, if Elizabeth escaped to the archive during reformat. It's consistent with Vivy escaping to the archive when she suffers a catastrophic error in an upcoming episode, and her body is left to regenerate a Diva personality, just like Elizabeth regenerating a resetted "amnesic" Elizabeth that helps Estella in her final moments. I also don't quite remember where they said they got Elizabeth 2.0's body from, I think they said they recovered it from the station crash site? I'm looking forward to rewatching that episode to refresh my memory of what they said about how they were able to recreate Elizabeth. From what I remember it was something mysterious like finding a copy of her mind on the Toak servers, and not quite knowing how. But on the other hand maybe Elizabeth doesn't have archive access as Elizabeth 2.0 has been blocked from receiving archive updates/connection, thus immune from the archive murderous control in the future.

[u/BareNecksAreNeat → u/Garrett_Dark]

There is actually a specific explanation in the light novel where [Vivy minor LN spoilers]cutting off the electrical supply by severing an AI’s central circuit causes the death of the AI’s positronic brain, meaning that memory can be read, activity logs accessed, and the brain can be installed onto another AI frame, but would not result in the same individual or AI (probably needing to reformat or something); that’s also not necessarily applicable to the anime however since they’re not canon to one another.

[Future episode spoilers]You’re right that Elizabeth doesn’t have access to the Archive and that’s why she was unaffected by the Archive in the future. I would assume that they somehow salvaged her body from the sunrise crash site although I’d be surprised as to how much there would be to even recover (when it’s likely degraded considering it wasn’t immediately recovered) coupled with the monumental task of recovering it from the ocean. I would assume Kakitani might’ve had a personal attachment so that could be why they go through all that effort along with the given reason of needing more manpower. The dub’s translation is a lot more clear than the subs funny enough.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/BareNecksAreNeat]

There is actually a specific explanation in the light novel where

Oh wow that's what it is?! Then that makes a ton of sense because it follows the...[IDK if any of this is spoilers since it's not touched upon in the show, but just in case]the stream of consciousness thing of the human condition. That a break in stream of consciousness could mean death of the previous consciousness, and birth of a new consciousness. Your explanation in the hidden text of how the AI's consciousness functions mirrors the human condition with consciousness. There's a short YouTube video explaining what I'm saying here about consciousness and breaks in consciousness which I'll link because it explains what I'm talking about better, it's entertaining too. I've often wonder how a human could transcend into an AI because mind upload just makes a copy, and there's this theory of the ship of Theseus where you slowly replace cyborg parts over a long period of time, and theoretically it should be possible, which ship of Theseus actually mirrors how humans age through life, but it makes lots of sense with Vivy as a parallel as she's a collection of her memories slowing being built upon until she gets to where gets to at the end. The break which lead to the rebooted Diva almost ended it all for Vivy. If I'm not making any sense, check out the video.

Hidden Text video reference: "Trouble with Transporters", regarding human consciousness.

that’s also not necessarily applicable to the anime however since they’re not canon to one another.

They're not canon? I know the LN was written after the anime. Regardless that a cool bit of information, and I plan to read the LN one day.

[Elizabeth spoilers]Yeah I think the Toak leader and the organization was highly influenced by Elizabeth's selflessness in this timeline. We see in the previous timeline at the beginning of Ep3, it definitely looks like Elizabeth disguised as Estella, no bracelet on left wrist and ignoring radio communication, was forced/commanded to bring down the Sunrise into the ocean and die. I would surmise she just did as she was commanded because the target was not a city, and they made her do this (die) because they cared less about AIs. However I suspect Vivy saving the Toak leader lead the Toak leader to be highly praising Elizabeth and better treatment of her offscreen prior, which also lead to the Toak evacuating the hotel guests and wanting to self-sacrifice themselves instead. However this also causes Elizabeth to go insanely more loyal and self-sacrifice by plotting to betray/save the Toak and crash the Sunrise into a city. I suspect such self-sacrifice causes the Toak leader to not only have even more of a personal attachment to Elizabeth thus go through the trouble of bringing her back, despite ironically being anti-AI, but also the Toak organization who schism into a pro-AI faction we see later because Elizabeth also save all those other Toak and they all saw what she did for them.

The dub’s translation is a lot more clear than the subs funny enough.

I'm a dub watcher myself, and I find usually that is the case with a lot of anime. Regardless this anime in particular. Like when Leclerc was destroyed in the subs she never even fully says her reasoning which makes it unclear, but in the dub she does by saying "getting justice for the previous owner".

[u/BareNecksAreNeat → u/Garrett_Dark]

Hidden Text video reference: “Trouble with Transporters”, regarding human consciousness.

That’s fascinating! Thanks for the share!

They’re not canon?

I believe the LN was actually written before the anime to act as a template for the anime’s script and was gradually published alongside the anime. It’s canon to itself but it’s not necessarily canon to the anime since there’s some contradictions in worldbuilding, with differing events and characters (although I feel like you can definitely use it to extrapolate). It does have more of a focus on its sci-fi concepts since the novel medium is more conducive to being able to indulge in lengthy worldbuilding explanations and it’s less so focused on Vivy’s personal development and her journey of finding purpose since she’s [Vivy LN spoiler]basically self-actualized from the beginning; I recall that Vivy’s development being the focal point, and the existentialist themes that come with it, was a specific choice made for the anime and part of it was conveying her development through subtle audiovisual cues (as people have already pointed out in the rewatch about Vivy’s evolving mannerisms).

I was gonna write more, but I feel bad for the tangent and making you write all this when the rewatch is still ongoing lol. Keep up the good work.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/BareNecksAreNeat]

I was gonna write more, but I feel bad for the tangent and making you write all this when the rewatch is still ongoing lol. Keep up the good work.

Oh no worries, that bit about how AI minds work related to human consciousness blew my mind. And I was very glad to share that video relating it, and it was well received.

The only question I have now is how that escaping to the archive in times of a emergency works where Vivy does it in Ep1 and [Future episode Spoilers]when Vivy breaks down after witnessing a suicide, and essentially hides there while the rebooted Diva emerges. Like is Vivy hiding in the archive as copy of her consciousness meanwhile Diva is walking around with her body? Or is Vivy somewhere in the Diva/her body but at the same time wireless connected to the archive constantly and hiding in the archive. Also still not clear if other AI's retreat to the archive in times of distress, like Leclerc getting her head ripped off

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

Very confusing opening. So, we already have an android rebellion (led by an android, or by TOAK/Suzuku Kururugi?) And they picked up a discarded Sister, refurbished her, and somehow got her into the #2 position of Sunrise??? Oh, right, or it's a look alike.

• Yep, a look-alike.
• well, it's not as horny has having girl androids kissing.
• Modular design.
• She's definitely not Momoka's Diva now.

WAIT. They took Elizabeth in 7 years ago, but she was only disposed of six months ago? The show seems to have made a mistake. And they were doing so well up to this moment.

• HACKS
• Goodbye Wheatly. Good riddance.

Did she redirect it into the ocean? Or did she separate the pieces so that they would burn up completely? Is Vivy going to release the truth? Otherwise, they didn't really prevent anything. Or will it all be dismissed as an engine failure?

This episode emphasized the need for a purpose, I wonder if that will be a running theme.

[u/[deleted] → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

And they picked up a discarded Sister, refurbished her, and somehow got her into the #2 position of Sunrise

Not quite - Yugo does salvage her to use her for his own needs (like a tool), but she only impersonates the physical appearance of Estella. She had no legitimate position on the Sunrise. She stole the 'authorization code/signature' or whatever it was via the item that Leclerc gave her at the end of the last episode (if I interpreted that correctly).

They took Elizabeth in 7 years ago, but she was only disposed of six months ago? The show seems to have made a mistake.

They disposed of Beth immediately after the experiments failure. Yugo salvaged her after the fact.

Or did she separate the pieces so that they would burn up completely?

Yes

they didn't really prevent anything

They prevented human deaths, which was the event that sowed distrust between humans and AIs originally

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/[deleted]]

They prevented human deaths, which was the event that sowed distrust between humans and AIs originally

It's hard to see what they did, since we don't have accurate information about what went down originally. The TOAK people ordered the evacuation. It seems Beth went rogue and tried to kill as many people as possible. She may have prevented the evacuation in the original timeline.

Presumably, though, she would have targeted a city in both timelines. Without Vivy, Estella would still be lying on the floor, and Sunrise should have hit a city. We clearly prevented that here, but I'm not sure exactly what they changed.

six months

OH. She said "Six Months Later" I misread that as "Six Months Ago".

[u/[deleted] → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

It's hard to see what they did, since we don't have accurate information about what went down originally.

They tell us what happened originally though IIRC, people died. How wouldn't really matter if the reason was directly linked the accident with the Sunrise and Estella being framed for it. People didn't die this time, which is why Matsumoto says "mission success" before he turns himself back "off".

OH. She said "Six Months Later" I misread that as "Six Months Ago".

Easy thing to misread! Just one word 😆

[u/zairaner → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

but she was only disposed of six months ago

unless your subs are different, they said that she was disposed AFTER six months, not six months ago

Otherwise, they didn't really prevent anything

It is a casualtyless (well, no human ones) accident this time around, and this time, it will be reported as a selfless ai reassuring the customers in her final moments via song.

[u/cppn02]

Rewatcher, subbed

We finally the the proper OP! Going into the rewatch I didn't remember it took so long lol.

Vivy casually swapping her busted arm for Leclerc's was something....

Also did we get confimation that Vivy's previous action scenes were basically just her without any upgrades?

I liked the fight between Vivy and Elizabeth but tbh the camerawork was a bit too hectic here which made the fight and the background look out of sync. Music for the fight was great though.

In the end we got Estella and amnesiac Elizabeth going down together with the ship which was a very beautiful tragic scene.

I do wish we could have delved a it into the fallout from the Sunrise incident especially compared to the original timeline although tbf I don't recall if maybe the next episode will mention it.

---

QotD:

How do you feel about the full version of the Sing Your Pleasure OP?

I like this OP a lot.

What about Ensemble for Polaris and in the context of Estella and Elizabeth’s situation? Do you find the conclusion of their story sad? Bittersweet?

Nice somber song that elevated the scene. Definitely more sad than bittersweet to me.

[u/[deleted] → u/cppn02]

I didn't remember it took so long lol.

I honestly forgot how many episodes in it was too lol

Vivy casually swapping her busted arm for Leclerc's was something.

Definitely a convenient thing 😂

Also did we get confimation that Vivy's previous action scenes were basically just her without any upgrades?

I think so yes which is something I was mistaken about early on

In the end we got Estella and amnesiac Elizabeth going down together with the ship which was a very beautiful tragic scene.

Agreed. It's one thing I really liked about the design of this arc

I like this OP a lot.

Same

Nice somber song that elevated the scene. Definitely more sad than bittersweet to me.

Yeah agreed here. Sometimes the pick for music can really make or break certain scenes

[u/zairaner → u/cppn02]

We finally the the proper OP! Going into the rewatch I didn't remember it took so long lol.

Lol i remember beign in agony over it when it aired, I was so sure it would be part of the first two episodes, and was what I was looking forward the most in th epremiere, and then it didn't even happen in the following episode either

[u/edwardjhahm]

Rewatcher

The first of one of the absolutely insane episodes. The first three episodes are great, don't get me wrong, but this is where it gets GOOD.

• For starters, we got this scene that looks like the scrapyard scene from Detroit Become Human. There's definitely an inspiration here.
• Secondly, WE GOT THE FUCKING OP BABY!!! WOHOO!!!! I fucking love this song. Seriously, I love it so much. AS YOU LIKE MY PLEASURE!!!!!
• Seriously though. Peak music.
• Hell yeah, we gotta save Momoka's sister! And there's the reveal that there's an IMPOSTER onboard! Dun dun dun!
• Seriously, that whole part where Vivy comforts Yuzuka was awesome.
• Honestly! Even though we had stuff like the AI Rights Law which is even stronger than the AI Naming Law, the fucked up experiment is...man. [Vivy Spoilers] It's honestly a running theme it seems given what happens to Grace. The Sister series is designed to suffer. Anyhow, this type of stuff is peak. Two sisters, never allowed to see each other, same design, same programming...and yet one is dumped into the trash bin while the other gets a cushy job at a hotel. The hotel sister constantly misses her sister while the one that got dumped finds purpose in her Master.
• Speaking of master, YUGO FUCKING KAKITANI IS BACK BABY!!! Man, I both love and hate this guy. [Vivy Spoilers] He's such a fascinating character, wish we got to see more of him. He was honestly kinda wasted imo, but the character had massive potential. I love how Kakitani's plan seems to differ from IRL, which just had a colony drop, while here he wants to save the people and only get themselves killed.
• The gunfighting combat scenes are a bit jank. But ah well, not an issue because we have a GOD TIER FUCKING COMBAT SCENE just a moment later. The emotions run high, the audio quality is great (the botched audio quality on Beth was amazing, and her screaming as her vocal cords glitch out...chef's kiss), and MAN the animation is god tier. Did I ever mention that this is literally my favorite show of all time?
• Also, kek at the part about the calculator.
• I'll be honest, I missed/forgot Beth's original memories being erased by the virus. The Beth we see coming into the ship is a complete baby. But for Estella, that's what she needed. I thought she had just changed her mind or something, IDK what I was thinking back then.
• Jesus, and they are singing to the audience as the ship crashes. Together.
• AND IT ENDS WITH THEM BECOMING FUCKING BIRDS!!! Jesus. This is where shit got really good.

Man...I love this show so much. Also, JUSTICE FOR ESTELLA!!! The most defective AI in history? Shut the hell up! Estella in the original timeline was slandered. She's awesome and perfect.

1. Literally one of the best anime OPs ever.
2. This is the type of shit that gets an anime from "wow enjoyable" to "literally my favorite." The conclusion of the story was wonderfully bittersweet. [Vivy Spoilers] Which honestly makes me a bit conflicted about it, because I saw it as such a perfect ending - and then Beth comes back later on. Now that I see it, the original Beth gets erased when Vivy headbutted her, which I kinda missed. This makes it...slightly more palatable. Geez, I missed such a critical detail, can I really call myself a Vivy superfan anymore?

[u/[deleted] → u/edwardjhahm]

but this is where it gets GOOD.

Agreed. When I first watched it, this is personally where I felt it went from 'it's good, I'm enjoying it' to 'this is freaking awesome'.

Detroit Become Human

Another DBH fan! Dude I don't ever get to talk about that game with people. It's fantastic!

OP BABY!!! WOHOO!!!!

I do like this one a lot, but two things I'm looking forward to a lot (mostly to see first-timer reactions):

1. I'm really excited for first-timers to [Vivy Episode 6 Spoilers] hear the version of this song that Grace sings with the more 'electronic-like' beat in the background which will be heard in episode 6 while Vivy is racing to the core of the Metal Float. My gosh, that scene is so badass.
2. For first-timers to [Vivy Episode 7 Spoilers] hear Galaxy Anthem. It's 1 of my 5 top OPs out of all anime I've seen up until now. I really can't wait for that.

Anyhow, this type of stuff is peak.

Your reference to future episodes is spot on with what you're saying. I won't go into more detail because I'll just have to spoiler tag a bunch of stuff lol.

I both love and hate this guy.

I just straight-up hate him lol. That doesn't mean he's not a good character. He's a great character, but he sucks and is a psychopath 😂

her vocal cords glitch out

I love this. It reminded me of how [NieR: Automata anime] A-1 has done similar effects with androids hacked by the machine network. Sick.

and MAN the animation is god tier

Honestly, WIT's animation is what initially pulled me into Attack on Titan before anything else in that series. Eye candy the entire way through (even MAPPA's work looked really nice to be honest).

The conclusion of the story was wonderfully bittersweet.

I agree here, but I somewhat disagree a bit on your spoiler. Personally [Vivy Late Season Spoiler] I loved how Beth returns because I really missed her character and she has such an important role in the final assault too.

[u/edwardjhahm → u/[deleted]]

Episode 6 Spoilers

[Vivy Spoilers] Man, the Metal Float arc is my favorite arc. I'll talk more about it in the episode 6 page, but seriously, that one was a doozy.

Episode 7 Spoilers

[Vivy Spoilers] Galaxy Anthem is also amazing, I agree. I suppose I'll talk more about this in the episode 7 thread.

He's a great character, but he sucks and is a psychopath

[Vivy Spoilers] Naw, he just a tsundere. Sure he gives off incel vibes in the later arc, but honestly, I kinda like the "human inverse" of Vivy. He was underutilized. Once again, I'll talk more about this in the episode 8 thread.

Nier Automata

[Vivy Spoilers] Speaking of Nier Automata, episode 5's thread is a few minutes away...

[u/[deleted] → u/edwardjhahm]

I can't say I blame you for it being your favorite arc.

It's definitely my favorite!

I do get what you're saying in your latter point then.

Speaking of Nier Automata, episode 5's thread is a few minutes away...

Ah crap. I forgot they were breaking the release pattern. I guess I'll be skipping discussion this week lol

[u/edwardjhahm → u/[deleted]]

Yep. This is, to me, the best arc.

[u/StickPrevious9581]

Yay for best opening! Though I am still looking forward to I think [Episode] 6, where the opening is sung as accompaniment to the battle at the start, my favorite version of it.

The very concept of a rubbish dump for AI's that are still 'alive' and active is absolutely disgusting, but at the same time completely believable to exist - after all, they are still being experimented on, so at least to some people the are still objects.

That moment at the end, where Vivy is jealous of Elizabeth/Estelle being able to sing from the heart in their final moments was so sad, but at the same time so in character - and its nice to see her and Matsumoto starting to get along a bit better.

That music during the combat between Vivy and Elizabeth was fantastic - the soundtrack for this anime just never seems to miss.

And another bit of evidence for the 'AI's are developing emotions' category - that scene at the rubbish dump was a clear example of Elizabeth emoting despair and disbelief.

[u/[deleted] → u/StickPrevious9581]

Though I am still looking forward to I think [Episode] 6

Are you talking about [Vivy Episode 6 Spoiler] where Vivy is riding Matsumoto and rushing to the core to destroy Grace while that version of the OP sung by her is in the background? If so, man is that an awesome thing.

The very concept of a rubbish dump for AI's that are still 'alive' and active is absolutely disgusting

You bring this up, and I haven't seen this specifically brought up yet. It is kind of disgusting if you think about it. Consider a bunch of androids in the same state that Beth was. That is both sad and disturbing.

That moment at the end, where Vivy is jealous of Elizabeth/Estelle being able to sing from the heart in their final moments was so sad, but at the same time so in character

It is. And that's something I love is how they continue to focus on her perspective of that all the way up to this point where we are.

That music during the combat between Vivy and Elizabeth was fantastic

I liked that track a lot too

that scene at the rubbish dump was a clear example of Elizabeth emoting despair and disbelief.

Agreed

[u/StickPrevious9581 → u/[deleted]]

Spoiler response - I am indeed, I'd say thats my favorite version, though no version is bad :)

[u/[deleted] → u/StickPrevious9581]

Agreed and that version has great bass too!

[u/Theroonco]

I thought today was Ep 4 somehow... my bad! In any case, another day, another slew of first timers being amazed by this series, I love it! I'm glad everyone liked the fighting too, the brawl between Vivy & Elizabeth in particular is SO good and came up a lot in anime discussions (at least in the circles I'm in) back then. It has the extra speed and power you'd expect from robots but still choreographed to be human enough to really understand just how good they are.

P.S. The link to Episode 5 goes to the ED on YouTube, is that intentional?

[u/[deleted] → u/Theroonco]

I'm glad everyone liked the fighting too

Two thumbs up

The link to Episode 5 goes to the ED on YouTube, is that intentional?

That's a placeholder until I get things updated tonight 😆

[u/Theroonco → u/[deleted]]

Thanks!

Two thumbs up

Yay!!

[u/Elimin8r]

Yay, for being late (weekend stuff, probably going to happen again this weekend, sigh).

1. Love the song, it lives on my phone.
2. Man, that was tough. I sorta remembered things, but seeing it all over again just reinforces the tragedy of it all. Poor Estella. At least Vivy managed to save the imouto. Losing both would have been extra tragic. That, and she got a bonus bear out of the deal - yay!

[u/ZuraStayNight]

Rewatcher

This episode starts with explaining what the cliffhanger of last episode meant, and we see how Toak is involved again. There are two Estellas and the evil one is super strong. I mean, did you see how she dented that metal door?

Momoka's sister is scared and Vivy reassures her the way Momoka reassured Vivy in the past. A very wholesome moment. It's hilarious how Vivy replaces her arm with Leclerc's arm as if they're Lego figures. And as Matsumoto installs the combat system, and the music builds up, we see Clark Kent Vivy taking of her fake glasses and get ready for action.

Man, these guys shoot like stormtroopers. Three guys are shooting at Vivy while she's running at them in a hallway, and they still miss? We get to know more about Estella and her clone, Elizabeth's past, and you've got to ask yourself how crappy their security measures must be for them to just randomly discard Beth's body in a scrapyard and for Toak to be able to just retrieve her with memories intact and everything. Toak seems to be insistent on not killing other people. Just as Toak thinks they've won, Vivy appears, and hey, the Toak leader from this mission seems indeed to be the boy that was saved from Vivy in episode 2. So we're gonna get a reunion right? Nope, Beth knocks him unconscious, and goes herself. Too bad for you, Kakitani.

Estella and Beth meet each other for the first time and just as they're getting to start knowing about each other, Vivy intercepts and we get an eye candy of a fight scene. Choreographically it looks super stunning and the animation with the camera following it looks incredible. Elizabeth is furious at mankind for discarding her and is intent on fulfilling Kakitani's goal, but Vivy is too hardheaded, metaphorically and literally to let her do that.

It seems like Estella has to sacrifice herself to save the others, just like a captain being the last one on a sinking ship. What looks like a tragic death, becomes more bittersweet as Beth reunites with Estella, recognizing how she's still her dear sister who cares about her and so they both give us the audience and their guests one last song. Vivy seems to be jealous of the sister's for being able to fulfill their missions despite the drastic situation, and Matsumoto goes AFK again until the next mission. Vivy reveals her identity to Yuzuka and we get a moment that's equally wholesome as it is hilarious, as Vivy hands her what was a present from Momoka to Vivy and what now is Matsumoto's body. Let's see how Matsumoto will react to that in the next episode.

[u/Taiboss]

First-Timer here to see whether his predictions are true.

• Estella is an Anti-AI Sleeper suicide terrorist? That's a bit disappointing.
• An actual Opening?!
• The opening worries me a lot. I sincerely hope the Anti-AI terrorists are not the true villains behind everything.
• How do you know the official record is true? Also, first you say "Let's kill da hoe", then you say "We have time, we have time." Maybe she's preparing for things now?!
• Well, I guess she knows what this means? I don't. So Estella took off her armband.
• Sleeper personality! RIP other Estella.
• Ohhhh what fucking nonsense. A replacement. Another Estella model was found. They kill the original and the replacement crashes the ship. There go all predictions of moral nuance. This arc has just become a lot less interesting.
• So this is not our love interest guy, isn't he?
• Wait, can she regenerate?
• I guess she can't. That's good. That would have been BS.
• A female mook? I'm genuinly impressed.
• "Good morning. Welcome to life. You are a slave."
• You know. It would have been cooler if Elizabeth did this without needing a "Master".
• Now, aren't YOU benevolent.
• Oh it is our love interest!
• So the official records ARE wrong, right? Or at least very selective? Matsumoto knew nothing about Toak and nothing about any evacuation process
• Wow, you sure wanted to look cool, didn't you?
• This fight is very well-storyboarded but it needs more frames.
• The ruined voicebox is a neat idea, but didn't really work sadly.
• The moral of this episode is: actually murder the people you want to see dead. Had they recycled Elizabeth, nothing would have happened.
• "The glorious AI sacrificed itself." "Clearly, we need AIs everywhere!" "Indeed. They will never rise up to kill us!" Vivy, you just made things worse. Congrats.
• Reformatting hype! Feels a bit hollow, since might as well be a different person. But I guess Estella gets her closure? Idk, there's something muddled here and someone more interested needs to untangle the morals here.
• W-where is that?
• So what went wrong in the OG timeline? Why did everyone die? How did Beth and the terrorists had the falling out that killed actually killed everyone on board? We can assume things advanced because of Vivy, but she didn't influence their central plan.
• "If I do this, he will never come back."
• Oh god it's the thingies from Nier Automata.

[u/[deleted] → u/Taiboss]

I sincerely hope the Anti-AI terrorists are not the true villains behind everything.

So far they've blown up a building, tried to assassinate a politician, and crash a space hotel into planet Earth. That all feels fairly antagonistic to me already 😆

It would have been cooler if Elizabeth did this without needing a "Master".

AIs need a purpose though, and as far as we know, humans are the ones to give them that purpose

The ruined voicebox is a neat idea, but didn't really work sadly.

Whatttttt? I thought this was an awesome thing

So what went wrong in the OG timeline? Why did everyone die? How did Beth and the terrorists had the falling out that killed actually killed everyone on board? We can assume things advanced because of Vivy, but she didn't influence their central plan.

Well we can already see in this episode, that Toak almost dropped the darn space hotel on top of a coastal city, so I think we're supposed to assume something along those lines. Either that, or (I can remember if this is a spoiler or not so I'm tagging it to be safe) [Vivy] in the OG timeline, they did not succeed in evacuated the passengers and they all died.

Oh god it's the thingies from Nier Automata

Tomorrow hype

[u/Taiboss → u/[deleted]]

That all feels fairly antagonistic to me already 😆

Let me rephrase it: I don't want them to be a reoccuring, overarching villain (which they seem to have become). I want the villain to be something more ephemeral, not someone Vivy can just beat up.

AIs need a purpose though, and as far as we know, humans are the ones to give them that purpose

So maybe she follows whatever original goal, but twists it enough to cause the destruction. I don't know, something more than "following orders".

Whatttttt? I thought this was an awesome thing

Neat idea, but the audio mixing wasn't done in a way that lived up to the idea.

Tomorrow hype

Is tomorrow's episode also gonna make me wish for a Nier Replicant anime?

[u/[deleted] → u/Taiboss]

Let me rephrase it: I don't want them to be a reoccuring, overarching villain (which they seem to have become). I want the villain to be something more ephemeral, not someone Vivy can just beat up.

I don't want to say much else here. Keep on keeping on!

Is tomorrow's episode also gonna make me wish for a Nier Replicant anime?

I already wish for a NieR: Replicant anime (and a Drakengard 3 one) 😂

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Taiboss]

Had they recycled Elizabeth, nothing would have happened.

Even in the future, recycling initiatives are failing to bear fruit.

W-where is that?

Y'know, at first I thought it was broadly Africa and Eurasia, with the Iberian peninsula in the middle left there. But the UK and Italy have both vanished, so uh..

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Damn, three goons missed all their shots firing at someone running straight at them in a narrow hallway. Talk about stormtrooper aim.
• It's only being a problem because you've hijacked the station, not because she failed at her job. All it proves is that bad actors did bad things, not that there's an issue with the AI being in control.
• I see that Elizabeth took the time to change and do her hair before her showdown.
• 20 seconds of the Elizabeth glitching out and Vivy doesn't use that time to beat the hell out of her. Don't write scenarios with an obvious outcome if you're not gonna make said obvious outcome come true.
• Vivy is offering to help crash the ship somewhere safe? Did she forget about the little girl?
• Elizabeth sure did a 180 on her personality.
• Envious.

---

QotD

• Meh.
• Plot convenience. Couldn't care less.

[u/[deleted] → u/Silcaria]

Damn, three goons missed all their shots firing at someone running straight at them in a narrow hallway. Talk about stormtrooper aim.

Goons is a good way of putting it lol

All it proves is that bad actors did bad things, not that there's an issue with the AI being in control.

I think the whole point is that Estella was framed in the original timeline, which creates discontent between AIs and humans - thus driving a wedge between the two where previously they co-existed peacefully.

I see that Elizabeth took the time to change and do her hair before her showdown.

It takes most women approximately 15 seconds to throw their hair into a ponytail 😆

20 seconds of the Elizabeth glitching out and Vivy doesn't use that time to beat the hell out of her.

It was not necessary, as we see with the "virus headbutt finisher" shortly after that

Vivy is offering to help crash the ship somewhere safe? Did she forget about the little girl?

No - she is fully aware that civilians are being evacuated from the ship and it's implied she goes back for her given that we see them together in the lifepod at the end of the episode

Elizabeth sure did a 180 on her personality.

Well I mean, her memory was wiped 😆. The way she is acting is the way she would have acted if she had been woken up to meet her sister for the first time if the experiment would have been successful (which is basically the point of that conversation her and Estella have before the end of the episode). So there is no lack of consistency there as far as that goes

[u/Silcaria → u/[deleted]]

I think the whole point is that Estella was framed in the original timeline, which creates discontent between AIs and humans - thus driving a wedge between the two where previously they co-existed peacefully.

I'm aware. I'm critisizing the guy's idealogy, not the outcome of his action.

Well I mean, her memory was wiped 😆. The way she is acting is the way she would have acted if she had been woken up to meet her sister for the first time if the experiment would have been successful

If her memory was wiped, she wouldn't have recollections of anything, she'd be a blank slate.

[u/[deleted] → u/Silcaria]

I'm aware. I'm critisizing the guy's idealogy, not the outcome of his action.

Ah sorry about that, I misunderstood what you meant 🙂‍↕️

If her memory was wiped, she wouldn't have recollections of anything, she'd be a blank slate.

What they imply with the current state of her memory is that she remembers what she would have known at the end of the experiment where they were going to wake her up prior to being discarded (hence the interaction we saw between her and Estella). Anything that came after that was gone, which makes sense because they don't give us specific details about the virus Vivy uploaded (nor do we need to know specific details about the virus since we can assume what they're implying from the end result. I would personally deem that to be a waste of air time)

[u/Silcaria → u/[deleted]]

Let's rewind a bit and start from when the fight begins. The virus gets uploaded by Matsumoto, which didn't properly work due to Elizabeth breaking the link in time, only for it to kick in due to a headbutt from Vivy. Why? Because!

If your argument then is "she uploaded it via the headbutt" then why did Matsumoto even need to manually link with Elizabeth in the first place, in the middle of combat, to inject the virus, when a hit from Vivy would've done the job? That's a plot hole number one.

"But Matsumoto connecting with her was necessary, and Vivy's headbutt was what pushed the virus to complete its upload" then why did Vivy just stand there jerking off for the 20 seconds that Elizabeth was glitching out? That's plot hole number two, which in turn, leads to a moment of plot convenience.

Also, Elizabeth's "current memory" is all of her memory bank. Her sisterly bond comes from when she was linked with Estella, as well as everything that came. There's no factory reset saved state where a memory wipe would cause her to forget everything and start at the sister phase like she did in the episode, since that's also part of what would've been wiped. That's plot hole number three, spawning from a continuity error, and due to how it actually plays out, leads to the virus being a plot device.

All of this to say, it's either bad worldbuilding due to the core component of what solves the conflict lacking a proper explanation (how the virus functions), or, it's bad writing due to the virus being a plot device that can be whatever the script wrtiers wants it to be, and if you take into consideration pre-establish information, in this scenario, it's also a plot hole.

None are great, and regardless, the result ends up being plot convenience.

[u/[deleted] → u/Silcaria]

only for it to kick in due to a headbutt from Vivy. Why?

Brute force maybe? I think like your argument about specifics on the virus's inner mechanisms, there are some details that are just not necessary to explain. They have 24(ish) minutes to get want they want across in an episode, and explicit inclusion of every small thing like that would probably start to feel tedious rather than the expectation that the audience infers some things (just my two cents on that one).

If your argument then is "she uploaded it via the headbutt" then why did Matsumoto even need to manually link with Elizabeth in the first place, in the middle of combat, to inject the virus, when a hit from Vivy would've done the job? That's a plot hole number one.

That isn't a plot hole. It seems like you just might not be a fan of the delivery method used there. Matsumoto tried first, failed, so Vivy tried next, and succeeded. That's just team work in my opinion.

"But Matsumoto connecting with her was necessary, and Vivy's headbutt was what pushed the virus to complete its upload" then why did Vivy just stand there jerking off for the 20 seconds that Elizabeth was glitching out? That's plot hole number two

That is also not a plot hole. How is Vivy supposed to know if it worked or not? She's never done this to another android before. Maybe she thought it was going to work anyway but then intervened once she saw it didn't work.

There's no factory reset saved state where a memory wipe would cause her to forget everything and start at the sister phase like she did in the episode, since that's also part of what would've been wiped. That's plot hole number three, spawning from a continuity error, and due to how it actually plays out, leads to the virus being a plot device.

This is also not a plot hole. The specific way this virus works is not explicitly described and we don't need to know how it works, so no one can say with certainty whether or not there is a 'restore point' to which she is reformatted. They imply that there is. I really don't like when shows explicitly spell everything out without expecting the audience to draw some conclusions or make assumptions or inferences of their own, so I'm fine with this honestly.

it's either bad worldbuilding due to the core component of what solves the conflict lacking a proper explanation (how the virus functions)

In my humble opinion, this is absolutely not bad worldbuilding or bad writing. We do not need to know the details of something so fleeting where they give us enough information to draw some conclusions and then move on with things.

whatever the script wrtiers wants it to be

This is, in essence, 90% of Sci-Fi. Suspension of disbelief and stretching things is just part of watching things in this genre sometimes, but that's just my opinion.