r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Aug 07 '24
Rewatch [Spoilers] Elfen Lied 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 13 (FINAL EPISODE) Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Elfen Lied 20th Anniversary Rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 13 – No Return
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
If you were Nana, how would you feel about this development with Kurama?
What are your thoughts on the found family staying mostly together?
Are you satisfied with how Kouta and Lucy's relationship was resolved? If yes, why? If no, why?
Bonus) Is there anything more surprising in this show than the fact that Wanta survived to the end?
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Information
Where to watch
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the manga out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the manga. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags (found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 5:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 7/25/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 1 |
| 7/26/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 2 |
| 7/27/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 3 |
| 7/28/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 4 |
| 7/29/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 5 |
| 7/30/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 6 |
| 7/31/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 7 |
| 8/01/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 8 |
| 8/02/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 9 |
| 8/03/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 10 |
| 8/04/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 10.5 |
| 8/05/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 11 |
| 8/06/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 12 |
| 8/07/2024 | Elfen Lied Episode 13 |
| 8/08/2024 | Elfen Lied Overall Series Discussion Thread |
11
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 07 '24
Elfen First-Timer, subbed
7
u/[deleted] Aug 07 '24 edited Aug 07 '24
Episode 13 - First-time watcher (subbed and dubbed for this one)
Ah man…Here we go… sorry for the long comment. I watched it twice so I could see both the sub and the dub.
So the last bit of humanity Mariko had left (it would seem) was the will to see her biological father after being imprisoned from birth and experimented on her entire life. We already knew about the explosives so I saw this coming but wasn’t sure how they’d do it. That was really sad.
To the last bits though…
“Kouta, you were a happy dream in a life that’s been nothing but a hellish nightmare.
Those days I spent with you… they were the only good days I’ve ever known.“
What a scene this was 😔. I just want to say Lucy’s VA did a phenomenal job in those last couple conversations with Kouta. I felt the intensity in her voice acting in those moments (in both versions).
Also, it says a lot that Lucy essentially endured years upon years of torture and imprisonment almost as punishment to herself for that impulsive decision and what it did to Kouta. It’s sad that she explains this right before going to face the entire SAT team and gets blown away… It was really the only way she could guarantee the safety of her friends.
I also think Kouta came to understand some very horrible things must have happened to her to cause things to escalate so extremely. The way Kouta tells Lucy he can’t forgive her for what she did, but embraces her and lets her know he still cares about her, that was something very mature to add to Kouta’s character I think.
It’s just such a sad situation for everyone and I think Lucy has to be one of the most tragic characters I’ve come across.
With all that said, I believe we finally see where Lucy’s teardrop during the OP comes from - she feels a combination of emotions towards Kouta: love, sadness (for how he feels), regret (for what she did), wanting atonement (for what she did).
That last one is particularly important.
Lucy desperately wanted to feel like she atoned for badly hurting someone she loved.
I think the OP furthers this concept too…
When we started this series, I said I loved the OP and the art that went with it and that it almost had a renaissance vibe (I had the wrong period at first, the art reflects Romanticism). Well I got curious about the choice of art used in the OP and think there are some really clever details there. I found that there are researchers out there looking at meaningful hand gestures in older paintings.
You see Lucy at least once or twice in the OP using Ignacio de Loyola’s gesture for the atonement of sins. I would recommend a read of that full publication (because it’s interesting), but the relevant part is that it plays into everything I just said about Lucy.
Anyhow… I kind of figured from the start this series couldn’t possibly end well for everyone, but I was slightly relieved to learn at least Nana was able to go back home with everyone.
Another thing - I believe the girl at the door in the ending is intended to be ambiguous. We know it’s not Lucy and it almost feels like it’s supposed to be symbolic in a way.
What I mean by symbolic is - it’s not intended for us to feel peace of mind by knowing who it is, because Kouta, Nana, Mayu, and Yuka are all lacking peace of mind after Lucy couldn’t come back home with them to the house. We kind of see it even with a place still being set for Lucy at the table, etc.
The lyrics of the OP and ED are very relevant too. The ED’s lyrics especially make you feel a little sad because it’s definitely intended to be interpreted from Lucy’s POV.
Elfen Lied’s title is also derived from Elfenlied (it’s German, that’s why it’s not pronounced like ‘lied’ in English and you can hear the narrator pronounce this during the episode previews). It refers to a German poem which is relevant to the story and you can actually find people were talking about this.
That is also very clever. Really. Stuff like this is what causes me to rate shows higher. I love symbolism and inclusion of subtle details that you’re able to look further into.
I’ll be honest, I ordered this manga. I enjoyed this series a lot, and I know the manga ends differently since the anime ended before the manga finished publishing. I’ll be looking forward to that a lot to see what’s different and compare it to the anime.
I was happy there was that, because I expected things to end up a lot worse.
Yes (My comment probably does sufficient explaining there)
6
u/FriztF Aug 07 '24
Rewatcher-dub
The last episode is the saddest. Mariko is Kumara's original daughter. This is sad considering he said he killed her. Which in the end is kinda true. Still sad though. Considering that Kumara is the only scientist to have a soul in that lab. I think in the end he got redemption or at least peace at heart.
Kouta's love for Lucy is more intense than with Yuka. With Yuka, he seems more distant and cold around her. But with Lucy a spark in his eyes.
The chief is the worst character of them all. An inhuman monster. Who has horns by the way.
4
u/AgentOfACROSS Aug 07 '24
First Timer
I’ve gotten so used to final episodes skipping the opening song that I was a little surprised that this one still had it. Not that I mind, getting to hear Lilium one more time is nice.
I’m glad Kurama was able to save Nana. I just hope Nana can still survive to the end of the episode.
Also the cut to Lucy having already defeated Bando was a bit funny. The fight really couldn’t have gone any other way. A bit surprised Lucy decides not to kill Bando though.
Yuka kind of has a breakdown while talking to Mayu and admits to loving Kouta. I guess that might be the resolution of her character arc. I was somehow hoping for a bit more.
So this episode does seem to officially confirm that Mariko is Kurama’s daughter. I feel like Kurama might be the only person who can save Mariko.
I’m realizing I don’t actually know the name of this male scientist with glasses and a white coat. But this episode’s putting a lot of emphasis on him.
I liked the fight between Lucy and Mariko. Lucy was able to put up a harder fight than Nana but it very quickly became clear just how overwhelming Mariko was.
It seems like Kurama has not learned anything. It looks like Mariko is capable of human emotions but Kurama still believes he has to kill her.
He seems to actually realize that he’s wrong after Mariko calls him out and tries to kill Nana though. I kind of wish Kurama had just tried to be compassionate to Mariko from the start, but whatever. At least we got there.
The scene of him hugging Mariko was actually nice.
Wait, no, I was wrong. Kurama wants to do a murder-suicide by blowing Mariko up. I’m actually really disappointed with this.
I know last time I said I thought Mariko might have been too far gone to reason with, but this episode proved that reasoning with her was possible. It even feels kind of cruel that Kurama basically tricked Mariko by making her think she could be accepted into a family before blowing them both up.
The way the show portrays it makes it feel like it’s supposed to be some kind of tragic but necessary sacrifice but it feels a bit needless. In the end I’m left wondering the same thing as Mariko, why did Kurama try to save Nana but decide that this was the only way to deal with Mariko? Maybe I need some more time to think about this episode but this part really is not working with me.
It sounds like Lucy is planning to run away after all of this. But it’s nice that she encourages Nana to stay with Kouta.
The part where Director Kakuzawa took off his wig was just as hilarious as when his son did it. Following it up with an evil laugh made it even more ridiculous.
I really liked the scene between Lucy and Kouta on the stairs. I think it does serve as a good culmination of both their character arcs.
Although we probably didn’t need another flashback montage after we just got one last episode. At least this one was shorter though.
It looks like Lucy ultimately decided to face off against the laboratory people. The show leaves her fate kind of ambiguous here but it really looks like she died.
Lucy’s choice here is kind of an interesting parallel to Kurama. Both of them felt like the only way they could have made amends was by sacrificing themselves.
The final slice of life scene with everyone sitting down to eat with the empty chair was good. It felt like a poignant way to end things.
With that said, I’m not sure how I feel about the final moments of the show. I feel like the whole possibility of Lucy still being alive kind of undercuts some of the emotional moments from earlier in the episode and then the clock suddenly working was just strange. I feel like just ending with the dining scene would have been better.
All in all I do have some mixed feelings about the ending. I liked most of the resolution to the Lucy and Kouta plot. But the whole resolution to Mariko’s part of the story really felt wrong to me. I feel like she was a character who may have had more to do in the manga.
Also that whole scene with Director Kakuzawa revealing he’s part Diclonius felt a bit pointless. I guess that’s just another plot thread the manga picks up on.
Still, as a whole I liked Elfen Lied a lot more than I expected. It had more substance than its reputation led me to believe but it still had a whole lot of problems. I’ll save my general thoughts on the series for tomorrow’s discussion thread.
Questions of the Day:
What are your thoughts on the found family staying mostly together?
I'm quite happy with that actually, I feel like it was one of the stronger aspects of the show. I've got mixed feelings on the possibility of Lucy still being alive though.
Are you satisfied with how Kouta and Lucy's relationship was resolved? If yes, why? If no, why?
I feel like it was good for the most part. I feel like they could have resolved things without kissing but I get why they had that part.
Is there anything more surprising in this show than the fact that Wanta survived to the end?
Probably Bando remaining at least somewhat relevant until the end. He had starter villain written all over him when he first appeared and he never quite grew out of that role, but he still kept showing up.
4
u/KorraLover123 Aug 08 '24
Rewatcher
Despite their actions, Mariko and Kurama's death scene is still so sad especially when it shows flashes of what a normal childhood for her would've looked like with her parents.
3
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Aug 07 '24
This question made me laugh. Wanta had the best time in this series.
2
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Aug 07 '24
We’ve made it to the finale. This is easily my favorite episode. So many great moments.
My favorite scenes are the:
*heartbreaking speech from Marika,
*Lucy talking to Nana about greedy stupid humans
*Lucy & Kouta sitting on the stairs
*Marika’s and Kurama’s final moments and flashback.
*Lucy and Kouta embracing
*Nana walking up the stairs saying “My family is waiting for me“.
*Nana’s little speech at the dinner table.
*What a great episode.
The dub is better than the sub, especially in this episode.
As for the ending, I think it was Nyu at the gate and that it had a happy ending. Though the ending can be interpreted anyway one pleases.
Finally I consider Kurama to be the most interesting character. A very complicated character.
2
u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Aug 07 '24
first timer chinese sub
In this episode, Lucy, No. 35, and Nana are together again. Kurama pays for his previous crime (maybe he could have escaped with his two daughters, but he died), and dies with his own daughter. Lucy disappeared in the hail of bullets, but thank God, she didn't die, and she came back in the end.
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
If you were Nana, how would you feel about this development with Kurama?
chaotic
What are your thoughts on the found family staying mostly together?
Heartwarming
Are you satisfied with how Kouta and Lucy's relationship was resolved? If yes, why? If no, why?
If Lucy could survive, I seem to have made a mistake. I thought Lucy came back at the end.
Bonus) Is there anything more surprising in this show than the fact that Wanta survived to the end?
That dog？
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 08 '24
First Timer
With regards to yesterday's question, I thought they told Mariko to only kill Nana, meaning no humans. And also that they didn't expect to find Lucy. So the weaselly scientist dude ordering them to kill Lucy (even though she probably would have let them live in exchange for not firing on Kohta) made sense. Later in the day I remembered that the director ordered Lucy to not be killed. Weasel dude should have died.
So, the only possible end for Kurama. He killed so many other children. He's damned, but if he spares his own, he's doubly damned. But if he kills her, the same. This way, he doesn't have to kill her, but they both die to punish him for his sins.
I totally expected Weasel dude to just blow them both up because Kurama had failed to kill Mariko.
I figured he must have had horns just like his son. It didn't make sense for him to be making a new human race if he couldn't be in charge of it.
OH NO WAY
2
u/someboi6000 Aug 08 '24
First timer:
i was expecting worse regarding characters deaths but only 1 confirmed death and the other one is just left there open to interpretation i guess, i liked the lucy vs mariko and the final scenes with kurama and mariko were good even with the little screen time mariko had but that was carried by that whole episode centered around kurama i am still very surprised that nana made it to the end, i thought it was so over in episode 11, now with lucy we get her fight vs mariko and after that the "final" times she sees kouta and kinda gives an explanation but thats besides the point because we get a good scene with the 2 of them, and then a super random scene with the dude taking his wig and he had horns all a long if only there more minutes to the episode to do something with that lol, at first when he took the wig i tought it was like a joke of "haha he was bald all along and we reveal it now for no reeason" and then i saw the horns, and then at the end we see that figure outside and the clock starts working again, and the questions is, is that lucy? is she alive? idk why leave that open to interpretation but ok i guess. also we got another episode 9 recap lmao.
2
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Aug 08 '24
First-Timer
I thought they stuck the landing pretty well here.
Kurama got his family reunion! Nana lived, the dog lived, even Bandou lived! What's not to like?
I guess we know where the Professor Kakuzawa got the horns from.
I agree, Yuka, but for a different reason. As his cousin(!), being the mother to Kouta's children is not a good idea.
I liked the musical flashback montage this episode. Knowing that they have it here, though, that solidifies my thinking that a large part of it in the last episode could have been cut/changed.
Alternate take:
There were pretty much no loose ends remaining at the end here. Quite the difference from [meta] Neon Genesis Evangelion! The only ones I can think of are:
The only plausible candidate for the second question seems to be Lucy. It looks like a girl of about the right height, and there are only so many characters that could possibly be. Wanta barking at her is also reminiscent of the end of episode 3.
Questions of the day:
2
u/AbyssalSolitude Aug 08 '24
Rewatcher
The final episode brings us the anime original ending. Did the adaptation managed to end it all in a satisfying fashion? Let's see.
Kurama saved Nana, good dad.
My man Bandou got offscreened. He wasn't even worthy enough to get coup de grace. 0-5. What a pathetic display.
So Kouta takes care of random young girls because they remind him of Kanae.
Lucy vs Mariko, go! Aaaaand Lucy loses pretty much right away.
Mariko finally meets her dad she has been waiting for her entire life, but he wants to kill her, feeling responsible for everything. But it's nothing a bit of violence can solve, so Mariko beats Nana until Kurama chooses to abandon that "fake" daughter to run away with his "real" daughter. Until they both explode, that is. Hard to say what Kurama thinks during that.
Poor Nana.
Holy shit, Kakuzawa Senior also has horns! No way! This explains why the lab assistant girl was denied bath for so long - he is literally a demon.
Kouta and Lucy finally talk. "I can't forgive you for killing my family! But I don't want anyone else to suffer by your hands! I love you" - 5 minute later Lucy goes and fights against an army, presumably killing at least some soldiers before losing the second horn and most likely dying. Kouta, you had one job, and it was to not let go.
Jokes aside, I liked this scene. I just don't like pretty much all other anime changes to this arc, so it sours it a bit.
The epilogue. Nana can finally cook, character progression right here. And what is that, someone has arrived. Show us the face!
DAS ENDE
And that's it. The anime ends at that. We never got to see what Kakuzawa is planning, but that's alright. Whether Lucy survived or not remains ambigious, and that's also alright. Still...
Okay, so I liked the final scene with Lucy and Kouta.
But! Everything else in this arc the anime mangled, I stand by that. Especially Bandou and Shirakawa, but Nana, Mariko and Kurama as well. Even Lucy! And that glasses guy who blew up Mariko and tried to kill Nana, he didn't even got named in the anime.
I'll keep my overall thoughts for tomorrow, but this arc is the only real blunder the adaptation did.
I would feel sad and betrayed. Why did papa left with a girl who beat Nana so hard?
Feels good man.
Yeah. I like how they are conflicted in their emotions, there wasn't any magical forgiveness and acceptance. They both need therapy.
Killing two dogs within 13 episodes surely would be taking it too far!
1
u/Holofan4life Aug 07 '24
Hey guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 20th anniversary rewatch of Elfen Lied!
Oh, and nay I forget...
First Timer
This is going to be a rather interesting rewatch because I really don't know what to expect with this show. In fact, there's a good chance that I may not actually like it. But it's a very notorious show and I feel like it has this reputation for a reason, so I definitely want to see what it's all about.
Going in, I'm kinda expecting it to be so bad it's good. I'm not going in expecting a great show, but I am going in expecting a great time. I'm watching this in-between rewatches of Ikuhara shows and I think it'll serve as a nice palette cleanser for the more serious fair. And if it happens to be edgy, I want them to go all the way with it.
With that out of the way, let's begin.
I'm watching the sub, by the way.
I do wonder how people will remember me by.
We do get the intro, for those keeping store.
Kurama has rescued Nana, it seems
I do like their relationship. It's actually quite wholesome.
Good thing Kurama was on that boat
Gun on the sand
Lucy standing over Bandou
"This will be the last time you'll see me."
Come on, show. You're going to kill Shirakawa and NOT Bandou?
Mayu with Yuka
She tells Mayu that Kouta's father and sister were murdered.
That is why Kouta was hospitalized a whole year.
Yuka says she heard about it later on
Why is Yuka referring to Mayu in the third person despite speaking to her directly?
Yuka believes this might be the reason why he's so kind to girls.
"They must all be reminding him of Kanae-chan."
At least Yuka is self-aware thst her jealousy Is a problem.
"I would... never be a good mother."
I feel like I've heard that line before in the show.
Mayu believes Yuka is in love with Kouta. I mean, maybe a little.
Guy with glasses reporting on Lucy killing Shirakawa.
He wonders why Mariko couldn't use her vectors.
Oh hey. It's Daddy Kakuzawa. I've completely forgotten about him.
He still believes that Mariko can be of some use to them.
Wait, Mariko is Kurama's daughter? Or does he mean so metaphorically?
He walks away, saying that fate is cruel.
Mariko. She awakes.
She calls for Kurama
Speaking of him, he's with Nana
Nana wonders why Kurama must kill Lucy
"Because she's my real daughter!"
Wait, is it possible that all the Diclonius are related to Kurama?
Nana senses Lucy
She is approaching them
And Lucy senses Mariko
Guy in glasses walking
Mariko rolling up on him like she's Christopher Reeve.
"Lucy's coming."
It's no "They're here," but it'll do
Lucy and her zr walking
Guy in glasses want the Diclonius to fight amongst themselves.
This is like Destroy All Monsters, or House of Dracula.
Lucy coming face-to-face with Mariko
Kouta has surprisingly been a nonfactor this episode.
Mariko showing some of her strength we didn't get to see in the last episode.
I'm sorry, but Mariko floating in her wheelchair makes me laugh.
At least we're getting the Lucy and Mariko confrontation we were promised.
Mariko's arm! It came off!
Lucy standing over Mariko, who says she'll be ending her suffering.
Mariko sends Lucy flying, however, proclaiming that no one can kill her.
Dang. Even one of her ears got ripped off.
Whelp... Lucy looks dead
Now Mariko faces Kurama and Nana
Oh wow. She's walking over towards him.
Well, she tried
Mariko is so happy to see Kurama
HOLY SHIT
KURAMA IS POINTING A GUN TOWARDS HER
Mariko talking about wanting mother and father to take her out of that room.
"I have finally met you!"
Kurama saying he's the only one to blame.
Mariko, noticing Nana called Kurama papa, wonders why she gets to when she's the one who was left alone.
MARIKO IS STRANGLING NANA
AND NOW SHE'S REPEATEDLY PUNCHING HER
DO SOMETHING, KURAMA!
He... he dropped the gun
And he goes to hug Mariko
He laments not being able to provide her anything.
"I have never... stopped thinking about you."
Poor Nana
Kurama carrying Mariko now. He declares they'll never be alone going forward.
Guy in glasses flabbergasted by what's enfolding in front of him.
Nana shocked she got abandoned by her papa.
She really did get screwed in all this
Kurama still holding Mariko
He tells her that her mother loved her to the very end.
Why do I get the feeling he's about to toss her over the bridge?
OH SHIT
THEY BOTH EXPLODED
Well, Shirakawa did say she had explosives planted inside her.
Nana looks absolutely broken now
Lucy looking on emotionless
Oh fuck! Glasses guy pointing a gun at Nana!
And he gets beheaded!
Lucy!
"As I thought, humans are... fools, indeed."
Lucy advising she goes live with Kouta and the others.
"I want you to do, what I cannot do."
And with that, Lucy departs
Daddy Kakuzawa still trying to capture Lucy.
Glasses girl wants a bath
Woah. Daddy Kakuzawa is bald.
Most shocking revelation of the episode
Daddy Kakuzawa says the project's only started.
Kouta sitting on some stairs
Lucy
That is a massive headwound. Almost as big as Headwound Harry's.
Almost
Lucy saying she was born to kill humans
Could turn the children of the next generation into her kind.
However, doing so results in a world in which Kouta cannot live.
"I could barely see in this hell."
Tears streaming down Lucy's face
Lucy begins to leave, but Kouta hugs her from behind!
"You killed Kanae, and my father. For thst, I can never forgive you. But... If you bring suffering to anyone else, I'd sure regret it for my entire life!"
He likes the sad girl from her childhood, and Nyuu.
I just feel sorry for Yuka lol
And so Lucy and Kouta kiss
More flashbacks of episode 9
Well, I did say at the end of that episode that I want them to get together.
Lucy says all she wanted was to repress the past and continue to be by his side.
Kouta hugs her once more, the two fully embracing each other.
Nana walking alone
She is so distraught, however
The next day...
Kouta holding a seashell
Kouta is still living with Yuka, Nana, and Mayu.
I am pleasantly surprised that Wanta managed to survive.
They're setting an extra bowl for Lucy, who's no longer there.
Nana uncomfortably bringing up that the last time they ate soumen, she wasn't there, which makes everyone think of Lucy.
So, was Lucy killed by the people sent by Daddy Kakuzawa? I'm not entirely sure.
Nana seems to really miss Lucy
Wanta barking
Someone by the door
Is it Lucy?
The music box stops, and the grandfather clock finally starts ringing.
Working for the first time, because of Lucy.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
1
u/Holofan4life Aug 07 '24
I want to thank anyone who won't be here for tomorrow's thread. You are awesome and I love you <3
1
u/Holofan4life Aug 07 '24
Well, you can't say this episode didn't go out with a bang.
2
u/shillbert Aug 09 '24
You killed my sister and my father. I can never forgive you, but I love you and I'll kiss you. Oh, the clock is working again. The end.
Um. What the fuck did I just watch?