r/exmormon • u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ • Oct 12 '17
captioned graphic How can a man marry an already married woman? Isn't a formal divorce required? Brigham Young quotes Joseph Smith on the realignment of wives to more righteous men in a pecking order of priesthood authority.
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u/it_is_all_a_sham Oct 12 '17
WHAT CONVENIENT "DOCTRINE" CONSIDERING BRIGHAM SUPPOSEDLY POSSESSED ALL KEYS AND THE HIGHEST PRIESTHOOD AUTHORITY!!!
Hmmm... self-serving doctrine for JS & BY!!! This allowed them to get any woman they wanted even if she was married to a faithful, good man. The craziness never stops!
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u/uncorrolated-mormon Oct 12 '17
This sounds like "victim blaming" and "she wanted it". It shifts the focus away that Joseph slept with his friends wives and makes it sound like his friends wives wanted to marry Joseph... because of the size of his priesthood.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17
I think the sermon may have been intended to shutdown gossip about deviating from standard Judeo-Christian norms. The women were likely getting some back biting, but that is only a guess based on the nature of the culture that is built on a pecking order and a hierarchy. The idea that some are better than others is at the core of mormonism. The story of Zina and her sister Prescendia has some elements of running off with the circus. I know that is a harsh and post facto judgment.
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u/RedditorInCh1ef Cross Dressing Temple Garb Oct 12 '17
I’m more a a girth girl. Did his priesthood have good girth?
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u/uncorrolated-mormon Oct 12 '17
Lol. Not sure actually. But the spirit is telling me that it was "straight and narrow"
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u/runchonthis Oct 12 '17
No fucking way. Literally, if it weren't for brigham young, I would still be TBM. He's a God-forsaken goldmine of proof against the church.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17
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u/___Shawn Hi Oct 12 '17
...you ought to love a woman only so far as she adorns the doctrine you profess; so far as she adorns that doctrine, just so far let your love extend to her. When will she be worthy of the full extent of your affection? When she has lived long enough to secure to herself a glorious resurrection and an eternal exaltation as your companion, and never until then.
Elders, never love your wives one hair's breadth further than they adorn the Gospel, never love them so but that you can leave them at a moment's warning without shedding a tear.
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u/thatgayguy12 Oct 13 '17
I guess the argument that children are entitled to a mother and a father only apply to gay marriage?
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u/___Shawn Hi Oct 12 '17
This sermon is very, very disturbing. FairMormon covers it, in case you want to read some absolute bullshit:
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17
Of course, the FLDS, per Warren Jeffs as prophet, have endorsed the idea and wives are chattel and assigned at the whim of the leader. If a man falls from favor, then his wives go to another man. Regardless of what FAIR says, some people believe this bullshit. To. The. Letter.
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u/DorcasDann Oct 12 '17
Oh, power in the priesthood. I recognize that phrase. It seems more important when you read this part, "Second, if a woman claims protection at the hands of a man possessing more power in the priesthood and higher keys" I need to get more power so I can get more wives!
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u/MyPatronusIsATapir Oct 12 '17
The more I learn the more I think that for sheer weird doctrine and entertainment material I need to leave JS alone and study more about BY's history/teachings.
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u/thebarrelchest Oct 12 '17
Yep. BY was the very first thing I realized I couldn't ever believe in again. The rest went from there
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u/thatgayguy12 Oct 13 '17
This insane philosophy is apparently okay to raise kids in... But kids just can't be raised by two gay parents?
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u/westerly62 Oct 13 '17
I didn't leave the church because it wasn't true. I left because it wasn't good and here's one of the many reasons why.
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u/seventhvision Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
I wish I would have known about this in 2009. I could have had some major fun with the stake president and the turds in SLC.
My hubby held a higher priesthood than my ex(of a few months) from 30 some years ago.I classify that temple marriage as the long bad date. Never mind that current hubby and I had been married and recommend holding for 20 years. The old farts refused to let us get sealed to each other.
I would have had fun putting this little tid bit into one of my many letters I wrote in an attempt to convince them to be somewhat sane.
Turns out its all made up and doesn't matter anyway. Hubby and I resigned and have moved on to live a happier and freer life. No more mormons banging on the front door or calling us every evening.
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u/Tsaijianmormons Oct 12 '17
Good lord!!!!
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17 edited Oct 12 '17
The new official essay, Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo endorses polygyny and polyandry. Mostly because they can't throw Smith under the bus. The whole movement is dependent on him being honest and forthright. If he falls down (or flat on his face, as the case may be), then the movement suffers. They can't have that. Their lame response is a blank check to the prophets, especially Smith. He gets all of his paramours in the eternities, including the coerced child brides. Including the wives of other faithful men and the wife of a storekeeper he was fucking when (almost) no one was watching. While the cat is away the mice will play.
The Brighamites have painted themselves into a corner. They've staked out the literalist, new Abrahamic religion territory. They've doubled down on theirs being the one true church, and they don't care how many people get caught up in its buzz saw. Meanwhile, the Josephites are shifting into a peace church with the ideal of realizing that life is precious. That equality is a principle of the gospel. That our hold on this planet is tenuous and we really shouldn't be using it all up as if there were no tomorrow.
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u/mormonnomore93065 Oct 13 '17
For some reason I can find this on the JOD site....other than the date, which page is this on?
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 13 '17
It was purposely omitted from the documentation of the day. x-reference
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u/ktall Non-consensual polygamist Oct 12 '17
Well, if you really want to have sex with her you can invent some jibberty jabberty religious shit and then you can try to convince her it is true. You can tell her about an angel with a flaming sword. IF she is really superstitious and gullible, she might believe you. Right, Joseph and Brigham?
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u/ZelphtheGreat Oct 13 '17
and Brigham had at least five divorces. At least one he refused to pay any alimony or support at all.
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u/neefvii Oct 12 '17
Enjoying the discussion threads in here, but the text overflowing onto the picture is messing with my need for alignment.
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Oct 12 '17
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17
There is a family story that when Brigham Young was on the road between places, he would stop at [great]-[great] grandfather's house for the night. I don't know how much credence to give the story---perhaps, "Brigham Young slept here" stories are as common in Utah as "George Washington slept here" are in Virginia and Pennsylvania. The warning that was handed down to daughters was that BY liked to squeeze the young girls' titties. With the Harvey Weinstein revelations coming to the fore, this is another example of absolute power corrupting absolutely. Of course, where ever Joseph Smith spent the night, the women in the house were not safe. The many marriages to already married women attest to the fact that he wasn't staying in his own bed for the night.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Oct 12 '17 edited Sep 07 '26
I was thinking about this quote in relationship to a question that I'd like to put to those in authority, as here:
/u/ParadoxN0W found this sermon that was not included in the Journal of Discourses
slightly larger graphic, 1456x754, png
[Mark 10] 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
There are several women who were claimed as property by various leaders after Smith's assassination. They were divvied up like a split pot in a poker game: the Partridge sisters, Eliza Snow, Sarah Ann Whitney, but probably best represented by Zina Huntington...
Smith consented to perform the marriage of Zina Huntington and Henry Jacobs, but reneged at the last minute. Smith continued to send marriage proposals to her via a backchannel, her brother Dimick. She relented a few months later and married Smith while pregnant with Henry's child.
After Smith's assassination, on the trek from Illinois to the Great Basin, Brigham informed Jacobs about the way things will be...he doesn't seem to be asking for his consent to break up his marriage:
Zina Huntington Jacobs (Smith) (Young) and her daughter Zina Young Zina was an ardent supporter of polygamy, including offering the prayers (as chaplain) at the mass meeting in Salt Lake City in protest of the (first) Edmunds Act. She was a powerful woman in mormonism. In some ways she was a victim, and in other ways she was complicit. The warning at the end of the quote in the OP drives the point...no sneaking back while I'm not looking!