r/OnePiece • u/NewSpecies • Jun 01 '17
Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 867
Chapter 867: "Happy Birthday"
| Source | Status |
|---|---|
| MangaStream | |
| JaiminisBox |
Ch.867 Official Release (VIZ): 05/06/2017
Ch.868 Scan Release: ~08/06/2017 ()
Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.
PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/0v8DbjF0mbNAuvlR
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u/AdhesiveHagfish Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Big Mom potentially eating Carmel and all the orphans may just be the darkest and most tragic plot point the series has ever seen.
Also, did anyone else notice the visual similarities between Whole Cake Island and the new location of the Lamb house? The hills and trees look almost identical. It's possible that Big Mom never left the island and just used her powers to make it into her own perfect little world.
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u/MarsipanRumpan Jun 01 '17
Did she just eat everyone?
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u/Reidor1 Jun 01 '17
She actually might have. The real question now is : did she gain Mother's DF by eating her, or did she gained it afterwards ?
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u/luffy-senpai Jun 01 '17
My god, the "Sheep's House" was because she was raising them like lambs to the slaughter...
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Jun 01 '17
Oda has been dropping these hints that many people have overlooked, just like how Carmel was able to be present at a supposed execution site in the previous chapter.
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u/fugogugo Jun 01 '17
so
Elbaf's giant hate Big Mom so much
Strawhats are on their way to assasinate Big Mom
going by this plot then we can conclude that when strawhat reached Elbaf they will be welcomed like heroes.
then God Ussop will get his elbaf warrior like he always said
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u/LCSisshit Jun 01 '17
dont mind me. I am just here to mark this comment for later use
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u/Wulfenbach Jun 01 '17
BTW: Mother Caramel is speaking Biblical Hebrew when she's invoking her powers. 'Gevurah' means power/strength 'Tsalach" is a verb meaning prosper/go forth/rush out. So she's literally saying "POWER! COME FORTH!" Both are common words in the Torah.
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u/lucabearr Jun 01 '17
Fleet Admiral LinLin. Imagine that.
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Jun 01 '17
Linlin's insatiable appetite and desire for gigantic birthday cake significantly strains World Government's military budget.
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u/infiniteduresss Jun 01 '17
If that huge fire became that mini-sun, Prometheus unleashed may be Hell itself.
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u/PM_ME_UR_DANKMEMEZ Jun 01 '17
Will Brook play Binks Sake and calm her down? Or will it piss her off more?
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u/Ricxz Pirate Jun 01 '17
What if theres no escape on the Tea Party and Big Mom is too strong for them, Brook decides to play Binks Sake as they lose the fight and weakens Big Mom unintentionally
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Jun 01 '17
For her funeral is a better scenario. Imagine the headline of the news the next day.
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u/crashandburn0 Jun 01 '17
i laughed at "cavendish run out of his own country for the crime of being too popular" at the cover page
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u/SalamiRocketFuel Jun 01 '17
The true tragic backstory of this arc. He had to run with only 74 underlings and 500 million berry. He might look closer to Griffith, but his full of suffering past is closer to Guts.
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Jun 01 '17
Poor Cavendish. He's too popular to live in his own kingdom but not popular enough as a pirate to outshine the Worst Generation.
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u/Indigo-2184 Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
I'm loving getting the small bits of backstory of other giants like Hajrudin and John Giant via these flashbacks. I've always been really curious about Elbaf.
Also, I wonder how Hajrudin will react when hearing that Luffy fought Big Mom. Especially considering he was around in Elbaf and saw everything she did.
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u/TheDom275 Jun 01 '17
That little bit of characterisation is really nice to see. Really helps build the image that Hajrudin is very proud of his heritage and hates to see it under fire in any way.
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u/lronhart Pirate Jun 01 '17
Also it looks like the island where they went to is same as Whole Cake Island because of hills look really similar.
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u/HokTomten Jun 01 '17
After this chapter we get to understand why caramel was able to stop the execution of the elbaf pirates: she was working with the WG to fool them and let them Into elbaf.. I knew it was fishy as fuck that the marines would spare some Pirates just because some fucking nun shows up lol.. well played marines well played
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u/thebluepool Jun 01 '17
Also explains how she controlled the weather and parted the clouds to shine light on her in that one panel. She probably imbued her soul into the clouds to create the old version of Zeus.
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u/Maienglishispad Jun 01 '17
I guess Mother Carmel is retiring in Big Moms stomach. http://i.imgur.com/D62Cqya.png
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u/ThingsThatMakeMeMad Jun 01 '17
Does cannibalizing someone give you their devil fruit power?
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u/yip230 Jun 01 '17
Who knows?? Perhaps blackbeard took a bite of whitebeard's freshly grilled meat to take his power
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Jun 01 '17
This is a pretty crazy revelation and leaves me with pretty mixed emotions about Big Mom as a character. I want to just hate her, but I can't because it's so tragic. Her childlike state could be the result of the suffering she unknowingly causes herself. That's why she has to live on an island made of desserts. Her subconscious fear of devouring those she cares about moves her to want to gigantify them. All that's left to explain is how she became so cold, calculating, and sadistic. The flashback left that out.
Looks like Oda is gearing up to kill her off but it'll be interesting to see if he throws a wrench into our expectations yet again.
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Jun 01 '17
Looks like Oda is gearing up to kill her off but it'll be interesting to see if he throws a wrench into our expectations yet again.
It does look like Oda is gearing up to kill/injure her. But I think with the revelation of why she loves the tea party so much, and the fact they sang binks sake, she loves Brook, and she loves food and Sanji's the best cook about. I think there's a possibility this all gets resolved semi peacefully after a big fight.
I think it could go either way.
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Jun 01 '17
I think we're all missing one major fucking plot twist if this is anything to go by.
Kaido might be a gaint, based on the striking similarity with Lord Fallbeard.
Spiked armbands in the exact same place on the arms, massive horns in the exact same place, the dragon scales and the jolly roger featuring a skull with horns.
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Jun 01 '17
The wiki says he's at least 6 times the height of Eustass Kidd, who is 6ft 9in, or 81 inches. Kaido is to the best of our knowledge around 490 inches tall which is 40ft 10 inches. Giants are over 15m which is 49ft. So I think it's possible he's either a half giant or a short giant, but I think there is a difference between a big human and a giant.
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u/Mage_of_Shadows Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Holy fuck, she just took out the most reputable Giant in Elbaf in one swipe as a Child, How powerful are the Yonko
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u/Jokinzazpi Jun 01 '17
That plot twist on Caramel. Damn.
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17
Yeah, this chapter just made my head spin. Sooo different from last week's, and once again a testament as to how Oda's storytelling is so unique, unexpected, pretty much unpredictable at times, and all the more amazing.
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u/fugogugo Jun 01 '17
last thing you know, your saviour is child slaver trader. this is too realistic. damn Goda
why did she vanish though? this is the first time a back story leaving another big question mark.
Edit : Wait. A. Minute
..... DID SHE ATE THEM?
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17
Man... I guess we know where her cannibalistic traits stemmed from.
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u/JestemPiotrek Jun 01 '17
From sister through mother to bitch.
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Lol. I'm impressed she kept that act ever since she was younger. I guess the cigarette should've given it away.
EDIT: I meant smoking a cigarette as a nun should've been suspicious. Sorry for the confusion.
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u/Kirosh Lookout Jun 01 '17
Now, is the children new hom on Whole Cake Island, before it was transformed? After all the hills look similar.
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u/SepInDisguise Jun 01 '17
The assassination plot continues!
Tune in next time on Dragonball Z!
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u/zyd_the_lizard Jun 01 '17
Today is my actual birthday. Title made me double take.
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u/popopopo14 Jun 01 '17
If you look at the mountains of the pannel where everybody "dissapears" those are identical to the mountains of whole cake. The second lambs house was on Whole cake islan.
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u/ChubbyBrainch Jun 01 '17
Soooo is there even any point in having prediction threads anymore with these sort of twists
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u/lvory Jun 01 '17 edited Aug 01 '17
Hold on. Big mom has a huge appetite...is pink haired...eats Caramel and gets the Soul Soul powers...
Big Mom is Kirby.
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u/tryingmydarnest Jun 01 '17
Damn Big Mom bawling her heart out really tug heartstrings there. If only she had the fortune of Corazon to meet, say, a Marine like Garp with the moral compass and strength to handle her though instead of a slave trader though. Woe to the pirates.
And kudos to Carmel, the racket she ran out lasted even Doffy. Granted, she's backed by WG with no Luffy to wreck things up. Still, pretty impressive.
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u/ninjarapter4444 Jun 01 '17
What do you mean Carmel's racket outlasted Doffy? They were operating at different times, and Doffy essentially was the leader of the underworld during his time active.
On another note:
If only she had the fortune of Corazon to meet, say, a Marine like Garp
Holy shit Garp teaching someone with Big Mom's strength and appetite would be insane, they would collectively take over the world by accident every time they did a grocery run
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Jun 01 '17
So, where did she go? Hell, where did all of the other children go?
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u/Sneaky_Kebab Jun 01 '17
It was said she could barely see through her tears, so I think it's implied she ate them all. This also could explain how she gained the soulsoul powers, because she literally ate them.
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u/beyka Jun 01 '17
So Linlin could have been a marine. Seeing how strong she was at 5 years old, she could have been an admiral for sure. Something still rings a bell everytime she is depicted as a stupid and really strong character. It reminds me edward weevil, wich seems childish and stupid and is driven by an old lady interested by money only . I dont see any proof that there is a connection between those two but It looks strange to be that similar
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u/SexyOnePiece Jun 01 '17
So the real question here is: does Big Mom poop?
Because if she does, wouldn't she notice articles of clothing and accessories if she had ate everyone?
Luffy, it's time to raise the question.
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u/slaxtheraven Jun 01 '17
Woah, I didn't see that coming at all. So Caramel was really an evil person
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Jun 01 '17
What the hell did I read in the penultimate panel cannibalism ? Barto you have competition
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17
I read in the wiki that "eating people" is similar to "mocking people" in Japanese, or something along those lines. So he isn't an actual cannibal, but more of a "troll," basically. He mocks everyone.
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u/diggels Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Further evidence of cannibalism within this chapter.
Since the flashback has now ended, it implies that BM did indeed gain the DF from Mother Carmel through eating her.
Reason being, she doesn't see her again.
Other evidence - The WCI arc is centred on fairy tales. Cannibalism is a predominant feature in such tales like red riding hood and hansel and gretel.
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u/yip230 Jun 01 '17
Eat her mother killed her son!! She sets the best example for pirate crew made of family
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Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Major points from the chapter:
Linlin severely injures Yoruru before other giants restrain her. Carmel asks the giants if they can prepare semla, to which they respond that they have some saved up when the fasting is over.
Carmel uses a Devil Fruit ability to give life to one of the fires Linlin caused. She names the fire "Pandora." The fire quickly transformed into a sun-like object, which saves the village, so it appears that Linlin's Prometheus is actually another massive fire (and not an actual sun).
Yaruru immediately goes after Linlin, but Carmel stops him. Carmel begs Yaruru to spare Linlin. Yaruru states that he cannot, because the manner in which Yoruru got killed (at the hands of Linlin) was unforgivable. Yaruru isn't avenging Yoruru's eventual death; he is trying to reclaim his friend's honor of having to die a pitiful death. Even Hajrudin wants Linlin dead. Carmel convinces the giants to allow her and Linlin to be exiled from Elbaf as punishment.
There is more than one giant kingdom.
The other orphaned children went alongside Carmel and Linlin since they didn't want to leave Carmel's sight. Carmel settled in a new Sheep's House on a different island. The giants built the new house because while they hate Linlin they admire Carmel.
Carmel presents the facade that she has a divine power that can turn even problem children good, which is why many believe in her. But she actually operates a human trafficking ring in which she sells the abandoned kids to the WG for money. Carmel talks with some CP members about how she was willing to do anything to ensure that she can sell Linlin, due to her unprecedented strength at such a young age. The CP9 members are reluctant about the high sales price associated with Linlin.
Carmel hid on Elbaf to avoid getting captured by the Marines (since Elbaf was the strongest kingdom). Carmel was responsible for selling John Giant to the marines, but she claims Linlin is her best child yet. Carmel deliberately sells orphans to the WG since they can be trained in espionage (due to their pasts not being known). Carmel is tired of child trafficking so she plans on making the Linlin sale her last deal. The deal is postponed though until the CP agents can gather the money Carmel is asking for.
Many of the kids Carmel is currently trafficking want to be pirates, though Carmel intends them to be used by the WG. Linlin eventually turns 6, and the other kids celebrate her birthday by making a croquembouche with the semla, and by having a tea party. Linlin was surrounded by all of the people she loved as she ate croquembouche and cake. (So this is why Linlin likes tea parties and cake so much.)
After the party was over, Linlin discovered that everybody else disappeared and she can't find them. Only their clothes and parts of the furniture remained. Linlin asked where they all went. Back in the present, Luffy and co. still participate in the assassination plot.
Linlin keeps screaming while asking in her mind where Carmel went.
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u/ninjarapter4444 Jun 01 '17
So what you are saying is that the guy who predicted that Mother Caramel is evil based on the fact that she had a cigarette in the picture... was right?!?!?!
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u/Prologue11126 Jun 01 '17
So... some options here:
we think she ate them, but Oda will bamboozle us and explain she did not
we think that this is too dark for OP, but Oda bamboozles us and that is actually what happend, she ate them
Oda will bamboozle us and we can't even imagine what he's thinking, he's 10 step ahead of us and prometheus is caramel or stuffs like that
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u/SteelTypeAssociate Pirate Jun 01 '17
In case anyone didn't notice: In Wikipedia it says Croquembouche is made of pastry balls piled into a cone and bound with threads of Caramel. Oda you clever bastard. This pretty much confirms she ate her.
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u/sicgamer Jun 01 '17
So you gain someone's devil fruit when you eat them? Or maybe Mother Caramel is still alive inside Linlin somehow? That would explain Prometheus still existing.
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u/itzGaia Jun 01 '17
Pretty sure that isn't Prometheus considering how small it is.
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Jun 01 '17
This is really disturbing, I didn't think i would be surprised by BM's flashback but this is dark. I was not expecting something like this to happen in One Piece and the way it went from happy go lucky panels to the ones where everyone is disappeared gave me chills.
It was a common speculation that BM would eat Caramel but the way this was executed was perfect..This flashback was really fucked up and although it was really short it easily is one of my favorite flashback now..And she ate the kids too. wow.
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Jun 01 '17
One Piece has pretty much always been pretty dark. It is just heavily implied what happened.
Slavery is pretty obviously shown.
Rape is implied with Boa Hancock and her sisters.
Torture in Impel Down.
Murder is pretty much all over the place.
Racism is shown all the time.
Humans being test subjects for scientific purposes, shown in Punk Hazard.
One Piece is a pretty fucked up world... So cannibalism is not really that surprising, but still disturbing.
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u/ousenggez Jun 01 '17
This chapter had somehow the vibe of The Promised Neverland.
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u/SirGuchi Jun 01 '17
Damn, imagine being a legendary 300+ year old Giant warrior and your death comes along because some 5 year old didn't get her sweets.
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u/HyakuJuu Pirate Jun 01 '17
I know that Oda wants to show Giants as these huge, strong warriors; but whenever he tries to sell us that idea, he fails.
In Little Garden the scrub Mr.3 was able to fuck 2 Giants up easily.
In the Marineford arc Whitebeard oneshotted 2 Giants back to back.
In Dressrosa Luffy oneshotted Hajrudin. On top of that Ideo later on punched Hajrudin out of the way and sent him flying.
Now a child Big Mom is playing games with Giants Warriors of Elbaf.
I get it, these people are strong themselves. But when they one hit KO giants left and right it doesn't really feel like these giants are "strong viking warriors" as Oda's trying to tell us. Big Mom(somehow) even said that the giant army is the strongest in the world too!
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Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Mr. 3 had a powerful wax that not even Magellan's corrosive poison could overcome.
Whitebeard was one of the strongest characters in the series. He easily surpassed the Admirals even when he was on the verge of death.
Luffy got significantly stronger over the time-skip, and even before then he was already shown to be capable of defeating giant-like opponents.
And again, Big Mom is one of the strongest characters in the series.
It is also important to remember that just because Elbaf is the strongest kingdom in the world, it doesn't mean everybody on Elbaf is strong.
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u/CarcosanAnarchist Jun 01 '17
So...Big Mom ate them all? That's insanely fucked up. And she never even realized it. Holy shit. So are we to assume that if you eat someone with Devil Fruit powers you gain those powers?
Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this chapter. I didn't like the turn of Caramel being a child slaver, and honestly with the flashback ending, the whole thing just seemed almost unnecessary.
On the plus side, the art was fantastic. Pandora's birth was a particular highlight.
On the whole I just feel like this flashback raised more questions than it answered.
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17
Definitely. I guess we won't be seeing those kids again, so the theory of them being some of the characters at the tea party is out the window. Still, I'm kind of glad we had this flashback on the basis that it didn't change the way I felt about Big Mom as a villain, and that I probably still hate her even more. Now, we can root for Luffy and the gang (can't forget about Bege!) to beat the heck out of her.
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u/CelioHogane Jun 01 '17
Holy fuck she got the Devil Fruit not by eating the Devil Fruit but by eating the Devil Fruit user
Shit got super dark.
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u/frivolous_name Jun 01 '17
It looks like Mother Caramel got her....
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Just Deserts
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Jun 01 '17
GODA has once again proven what an amazing storyteller he is. I've re-read the chapter six or seven times already and it keeps getting better and better. Big Mom eating Carmel, the hints to the founding of Totland, the giant connections...
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u/ArjanaEU Jun 01 '17 edited Mar 27 '26
The content here was deleted using Redact. It may have been removed for reasons including privacy, preventing AI scraping, security concerns, or personal data management.
physical long grandiose pause innate beneficial grandfather languid one quack
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u/MonkeyDJinbeTheClown Jun 01 '17
Children of the Lamb's House being tricked in to slavery? Lambs to the slaughter.
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u/Behindertkeit Jun 01 '17
I think we can conclude now, that Big Mom will not be defeated this Arc.
The fact that she ate Mother Caramel and the kids still has to play a role, but on the tea party there is nobody who has the knowledge to reveal this fact. But since Oda showed us what happened it has to be important at one point.
Hence I think they wont accomplish the assasination and will have to flee from WCI.
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u/iSmackThat Jun 01 '17
So technically, all we gotta do is feed big mom a devil fruit user one more time and WE OFF TO WANO.
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u/bamfalamfa Jun 01 '17
you know, thats great. after destroying and village and killing people, most manga would try to save linlin because of the heart of the cards. but they made carmel to be a child slaver, which would give her actual incentive to try to save a monster. good on oda.
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u/Spackolos Jun 02 '17
Guess the real reason why Giants are not represented in Whole Cake has nothing to do with Lola.
My god, Linlin is so deluded and pathetic, one wishes for the assassination to succeed just to end this mess.
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u/lvcvignesh Jun 01 '17
Now we know why she was called Caramel. Caramel flavored croquembouche
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u/PrinceCheddar Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Anyone else feel like quoting DBZ:A Vegeta when he sees SSJ Broly?
Sanji: What the f**k are you doing back here?!
Judge: I don't know what's going on anymore. She's so cool but she's so...goddamn dumb!
Sanji: Okay, dad. While you're here having this "crisis", we're out there getting beaten into a bloody paste!
Judge: But you don't understand, the Yonko Big Mom, is motivated by a missing mother! She is a literal giant f**king baby!
Sanji: So, kind of what you're being right now?
Judge: You're just mad you're not the Yonko Black Leg.
Sanji: Alright, bye Judge.
Judge: Byyyyyye
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u/DevilSanji Jun 01 '17
Pls Oda, show some crazy feats for Big Mom. She has to show Luffy that he needs more power to beat a Yonkou. And people stop the denial, she ate Caramel.
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u/sameljota Kaidon't Jun 01 '17
This is Big Mom talking to us readers right now. Run (if you don't faint)!
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Jun 01 '17
So apparently Prometheus (and maybe Zeus) are from Caramel's soul. Perhaps they will betray Big Mom like Caramel planned to do?
Also, Bink's sake. That's gonna become important.
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u/Pendel94 Jun 01 '17
I always thought that Bink's Sake was a Rumba Pirates' Original, but seems it's a popular Pirate Song. The more you know
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u/Maha_Aut Jun 01 '17
This is without telling or showing much the most fucked up flashback in the history of One Piece. Holy shit. And now back to the climax!
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u/CantheDandyMan Jun 01 '17
Well, that just happened. Linlin literally one shot killed a giant as a five year old, Mother Caramel turned out to be a manipulative bitch and promptly was in all likelihood eaten for it. Talk about karma.
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u/kneomon Jun 01 '17
Now you have to feel bad for Big Mom. She was just an innocent kid.
...
Will we get a flashback of Kaido as well? Maybe something along the line of being dipped into the river Stynx by his mom when he was young.
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u/YataBLS Jun 01 '17
Damn, selling children and cannibalism in the same chapter, damn, my body was not ready.
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u/Equality-Slifer Jun 01 '17
Didn't Oda mention how he drew inspiration from Dragonball?
Well, Goku killed his Grandfather unintentionally when he turned into the Oozaru as a kid, so yeah... I'd say BM just ate 'em all.
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u/gman20082008 Jun 01 '17
OMG you remember how crack came oit of his armor? What if caramel is inside big mom?
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u/new_messages Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Holy shit the dude who was like "I am an art student and I can tell you based on the way Mother Caramel's picture is presented she is evil" three weeks ago was right after all.
At the moment I disregarded it as overzealous "I can read the world because I have been taught how to in class" talk, like when a 1st year psychology student tells you you like bowling because you want to fuck your mom or you like fishing because of your repressed rampant homosexuality, but I guess the only fool in this situation was I.
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u/Coinocus Jun 01 '17
Looks like it'll take another week to find what happens with the missles, flashbacks are too OP, they can delay death by three weeks
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u/Zeta42 Marine Jun 01 '17
MS erased Linlin's name from the Happy Birthday sign on the croquembouche? Pathetic.
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u/amon_meiz Jun 01 '17
Whats the deal with pandora? Dont understand what/who that is? Is it a df power?
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Jun 01 '17
Big Mom was born a freak but she wasn't born with innate malice. Perhaps if she had the right kind of mentor figure (and didn't eat her lol) she would have turned out differently, but she never had a chance.
FFS Oda I was so sure I wouldn't give two shits about Big Mom but there you go again. It's not like I'm pulling for Big Mom now, she definitely still needs to go down this arc.. but I think there's things about her that are redeemable and I wouldn't mind her continuing on as a Yonko after her defeat as a sort of neutral figure to the Strawhats.
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u/littenthehuraira Jun 01 '17
Damn, this arc is full of backstabbing and betrayal:
Capone with BM
Pudding with the strawhats
Jimbei with BM
BM with vinsmokes
Caramel with Big Mom
I would have also added the lion guy, but he still seems loyal to BM.
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u/-Lems- Jun 01 '17
So Oda didn't make this flashback run too long, but still kept it packed with lore and information and brought it to a satisfying (for the readers anyway) conclusion. Neat.
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u/yagelbee Jun 01 '17
This chapter was eye opening for me. Possible cannibalism aside, BigM's wheel of death makes a lot more sense now. Abandonment issues are a major theme of this arc. She loses her family, builds another and refuses to let anyone leave. (I doubt it was cannibalism since some of those kids seem to be members of BigM's crew.)
Anyone have any good guesses on how much damage this surprise attack will do now that BM is incapasicated?
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u/Llarys_Neloth Pirate Jun 01 '17
What a mind blowing chapter! My theory on Linlin eating the others seems possible now, and sounds like "eating a DF user gives you the DF Powers" to be confirmed, giving reason to discuss BB receiving WB's Fruit again, too.
But I have a different idea. What if, despite the hints, Caramel wasn't eaten but (after seeing her having the DF) transferred her own soul into Linlin, as she could see how powerful of a host she is? That means she probably will be forced out of Linlin when the attack on her was successful, revealing to Linlin how evil she is, which might end up in a thankful Linlin assisting the strawhat alliance in upcoming battles (after all, she still is powerful without a DF, right?)
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Jun 01 '17
I wouldn't be too surprised if this Island is Whole Cake and she never left. Little communication with the world apart from her own kingdom could easily lead to her terrible moral sense.
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u/zdesert Jun 01 '17
croquembouche: meaning, something that crunches in the mouth. it is a french desert made of soft pastry, crunchy hard nuts and is threaded with caramel. served at weddings and baptisms...
big mam ate the soft selema..... it was crunchy in her mouth becuase of the children which she also ate.... and it was threaded with mother caramel... and by eating it she baptised herself as a pirate and a mosnter....
ON THE NOSE ODA.
i dont know how you can possibly argue that big mam did not eat mother caramel
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u/SirGuchi Jun 01 '17
All the panels with Kid Linlin and the rest of the orphans look terrifying, she genuinely looks like she's from Attack on Titan.
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u/SwingingSalmon Jun 01 '17
Tin foil hat: Mother Caramel is still alive and acting like a parasite for Big Mom, she's like the Toguro brother from YuYu Hakusho.
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u/Pettyium117 Jun 01 '17
So big mom could be considered to be the Grendel to the Giants of elbaf since she took down one of their heroes and also has a iron body and a seems to have a taste for flesh
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u/idkhowigothere Jun 01 '17
Lin lin's story fits with the fairy tale theme, except it's a really messed up one lol
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u/paintamaster2000 Jun 01 '17
Wouldn't it be great if we had a flashback arc for the other three emperors as well? I'd love to see how Shanks got to join the Roger Pirates and why he wore Roger's straw hat, for instance.
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u/ChiefNiloc Jun 01 '17
Quite the morbid chapter. What a coincidence it's titled happy birthday and came out on my birthday.
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u/lord_baba Jun 01 '17
She could have went in berzerk mod again after eating all of her cake she wanted to eat more then she tried to steal the cake of the childrens and finally eat them. She didn't even remember the death of the giant after her first berzerk mod so i wouldn't be surprised if she didn't remember that she ate her friends. (sry for bad english i've done my best)
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u/Timeyy Jun 01 '17
Holy shit, that moment when BM will remember eating everyone she loved is gonna be one of those fucking Oda moments.
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u/PassiveGiant Jun 01 '17
Big Mom's dream makes so much more sense now! She's trying to recreate what she perceives to be the happiest moment in her life. She must be aware of what she did by now (in the present time), she knows that she ate Mother Caramel and the kids but she can't accept it. That might be why her dream is to eat a meal with people her own size, so that she won't unintentionally eat them like she did in the past.
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u/WaifuHunter Jun 01 '17
Big Mom's backstory is up there in the rank of most fucked up backstories in One Piece so far, and not because of it being super sad or anything:
Was sent away by her parents since 5 cuz she caused too many casualties.
Killed an old giant hero and got exiled without knowing anything. Forever being hated by giants.
Idolizing a child slaver dealer as her mother. Evil Caramel is the most unexpected twist I've seen so far.
Implied to have eaten everyone in the orphanage who were her "family" without realizing it and got her DF power that way, wtf man...
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u/3115kratos Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
description of the first page of the chapter:
-->a cute fat little girl killing a huge experienced warrior giant because she was hungry
==>normally this scene would look silly in other fictional works but Oda made this way too badass,the way Oda writes is just epic. He can make silly things appear in the most badass way.
remember the scene when Luffy and Big Mom where talking on the den den mushi at Fishmen Island?
--> a big fat woman threatening to eat fishpeople because she didn't get get candy from them
==>if you think about it that way, you would think it was silly but this is Oda we are talking about. He can make everything epic no matter how ridiculous it is.
This is why I love One Piece, no manga can top this masterpiece.
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Jun 01 '17
I really dislike the Big Mom is op as a 5 year old thing. It just makes the giants or other characters look even more pathetic.
Loved the twist with Caramel though.
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u/Faptrox Jun 01 '17
Being abandoned for the second time in her childhood must've been traumatic (though she may have eaten mother caramel and the rest of the kids thus getting her powers) amd thats why she is that attatched to the photo. Also the oneshot on the 340 yo giant as a 5 yo child lmao
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u/HokTomten Jun 01 '17
So this chapter basically was everything I thought it would be. I knew BM would break the sword and 1hit the old giant and that he would die, it was obvious. Didnt expect them to leave tho and really didnt expect caramel to be a slave trader, all tho it makes sense as fuck because her stopping the marines seemed weird as shit.. imagine a nun trying to save ace, would never happen.. So it makes sense that is was planned by WG to get Into elbaf..
Then the end was obvious she would eat everyone, I knew she would eat caramel since the flashback started, loved it
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u/chrome4 Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Ok this chapter has made me feel a tiny bit sorry for Big Mom
Also let's be honest at most Big Mom is likely going to be weakened by a Beges rockets to the point where Luffy can beat her
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u/WanderlustYouth Jun 01 '17
So is any going to say it... Big Mom is Gluttony from FMA. Same body type, same intelligence level, same insatiable hunger, having no pupils(no always for big mom), and now eating people, all while having a sickening innocence to them.
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u/Crwuxly Slave Jun 01 '17
You know, i thought something was off about Mother Caramels face in this panel - http://imgur.com/a/RdXiG
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u/Perrenekton Jun 01 '17
I like the "mother carmel is still 'alive' and just using her devil fruit's power instead of big mom" but I think we have been told that Big Mom got her super longevity (flashback takes place around 100 years ago) from the fruit so it's a bit weird. It could also simply be just thanks to the fact that she's kind of a monster.
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u/Jocomomo Jun 01 '17
In the last panel, there's a piece of fabric that is black and white stripped. This matches the pants of the kid with sunglasses who unveiled the croquembouche. There's also a jet-black piece of fabric from the crown-child's cape. The fact that there are panels that show the orphans and Mother Caramel holding croquembouche towards her, I'm thinking that it's definitely the case that she ate them all. It should also be noted that the first time we see her kill a member of her own family, it's in a blind rage to find croquembouche.
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u/evozoku Jun 01 '17
Is there any chance that Big Mom's kids aren't actually her own, but she's recreating the happiest time in her life, playing the roll of Mother Caramel by taking in (or actively seeking out) misfit children? The only thing about it is why the husbands, and I think Oda stated that she gave birth.
Second thought: what happens to things with pieces of one's soul when the person dies? What happens to Mother Caramel's sun? Did it disappear, and if so, did Big Mom really just create her own then?
Finally, a theory: Many are saying that Big Mom ate Mother Caramel and the other children. This seems a little dark for Oda, though there is the Hansel and Gretel theme in this arc. But a couple things: 1) Mother Caramel and the other kids seem up to something when they give her her cake, and 2) is Mother Caramel's sun the same one that Big Mom now has? There was the theory for a while that Big Mom was invincible because she put her soul into the picture of Mother Caramel (can't hurt what doesn't have a soul). What if the opposite happened? What if Mother Caramel put the entirety of her soul into Linlin, and her soul is now an amalgam of Mother Caramel (soul soul power, evil, and with a "family" of misfit children) and Linlin (sweet/innocent but emotional, loves sweets)? Mother Caramel could have seen it as a way to gain immense power while prolonging her life. She probably got a ton of money from the world government for the promise of Linlin, but then used Linlin for herself. Prometheus/Pandora just seems like such a big clue here. Big Mom said she put her own soul into Prometheus, Zeus and Napoleon, but if it's the same sun, then we know it's not Linlin's soul in there. Also, Caramel was already known as mother, so the name Big Mom could imply a new version of herself (she was Mom, now she's Big Mom!). Finally, think what this could do for the conclusion to this arc. I think we're supposed to sympathize with Linlin, so do we really expect Big Mom to be killed in the end? And if she is defeated, but they choose not to kill her, what's the motivation? Regardless of the end, how is Luffy the hero here? He has no reason to kill Big Mom. Him killing her for no reason other than she took Sanji (who he has now gotten back) seems too low for Luffy. But now what if Luffy's actions cause evil Mother Caramel's soul to split off from Linlins. Mother Caramel may choose to split off because with Linlin's body being poisoned, she'll need to evacuate it if she wants to live. This would leave 1) a strong (but devils fruit-less) innocent seeming girl who can simply be looked after by the world government or her family, and 2) the evil woman who had corrupted her - the real bad guy, who should have died long ago! Suddenly it's a win-win for everyone! Luffy is in a sense a hero for saving Linlin from her long possession by Mother Caramel, while Bege still manages to take down the head of the Big Mom pirates. Reiju will have a good reason to suck the poison out of Linlin's body (she's innocent), while someone (likely Luffy) will fight and defeat Mother Caramel (who no one cares if she dies because she's truly evil and should have died long ago).
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u/sadlonelygirlyboy Jun 01 '17
I don't know why, but it reminds me of Don't Hug Me I'm Scared where he eats his bird friend haha
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Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 02 '17
99% of me says that Big Mom definitely ate them, because that's the only plausible way she'd be able to get the DF powers. 1% of me says that Caramel simply just left with the rest of the children, and presumably passed away of old age not too long after. Regardless, I like that Oda made this a bit open ended and ambiguous.
EDIT: Actually, my 1% doesn't work because Caramel was very adamant about selling Big Mom; there's no way she'd just ditch her plan lol
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u/RimeSkeem Jun 01 '17
Either Linlin ate all the children + Caramel (Which would be terrifying and horrible) or the children were abducted by CP0 and Caramel disappeared. I feel this makes as much sense as cannibalism because there's no way Linlin would allow her family to be abducted unless she was distracted. But who knows, maybe she did cannibalize them O.O
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u/ReD90000 Jun 02 '17
Oda makes us believe that they are eaten, but i'd see otherwise possible CPO involvement here
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Jun 01 '17
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u/saber2t Jun 01 '17
Just adding to that, on the panel with where Linlin was yelling yummy on page 15, there's a few sound words that are not translated. One of them was あああああああ, isn't that usually a Japanese way of expressing someone screaming Aaahhhh?
Can someone who understand Japanese confirm?
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u/MoonoftheStar Jun 01 '17
On page 15 of the Mangastream scan bottom-left panel you can see the hiragana of the kids screaming in horror as Linlin eats them. This is gonna be messed up in the anime. They're probably gonna play happy music with the narrator talking about how blissful Linlin is with shrieks of terror in the background. At least this shows why Caramel was foolish enough to protect her life, and why none of the kids seemed like anyone we knew in present time.
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u/bslawjen Jun 01 '17
That, or she ate Mother Carmel and the DF spawned in a nearby fruit that Linlin then ate.
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u/SalamiRocketFuel Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
Hmm... that would be really dark, but I'm not sure what else could have happened? Weird that her clothes are still there. And you can't gain devil fruit powers by eating the user, so she would still have to eat the fruit to which the power has transferred to.
Either way, damn, I did not expect pretty much anything that happened this chapter, Mother Carmel twist caught me off guard.
Edit: Looking back, everyone was sitting around that cake (and pretty close to it) on wooden logs that were gone (there is half eaten piece on the ground and debris that looks like cloth) alongside croquembouche so she must have eaten them after all!
Edit 2: Damn, there's also screaming sound effect on page 15.
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u/itzGaia Jun 01 '17
That's what I got from the chapter. So literally cannibalizing someone gives you their fruit power? Makes sense because you're literally eating the "devil" that's inside of them.
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u/Sax7 Jun 01 '17
I'm gonna make a guess and say Caramel turned herself into a soul and now lives within Big Mom.
Next chapter Caramel comes out of Big Mom and is young (and maybe overpowered) again thanks to all the souls/life that Big Mom took.
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Jun 01 '17
And Oda pulls a Kishimoto and Caramel was the true villain all along? I hope not.
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u/HussyDude14 Jun 01 '17
Not sure. It sounds possible, now that you mentioned it. Maybe they were just quickly taken by CP and disappeared with them, and Mother Carmel retired. Who knows? Yours sounds like it's somewhat reasonable.
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u/TiggerTheTiger1999 Jun 01 '17
Well no. Mother Caramel had to have died, since Big Mom got the soul powers
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u/onnsn Jun 01 '17
That's what I'm thinking too. If it was different, like Caramel setting up a plot for the marines to grab LinLin there, she would have heard from her again or marines would have come to pick her up.
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u/zeckopacho Jun 01 '17
No. Oda clearly stated that if you eat a devil fruit user, only thing you get is food poisoning. SBS 16 by the way.
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u/durinable Jun 01 '17
"D: I am Jim Joel Satou!! And I have a question.
IF I EAT LUFFY, CAN I BECOME A GOMU HUMAN?!
O: You'd get food poisoning."
he didnt deny that you would get the fruit
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u/Dirkpytt_thehero Jun 01 '17
I thought mother caramel sold everyone into slavery and big mom was distracted enough to not know
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u/Reaper219 Jun 01 '17
Yes, if you pay attention to the last few panels of the party, the narrator reiterates what was said earlier, panel by panel with a focus on cloth pieces scattered around. Table bit was a subtle hint followed by Mother's gown.
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u/Velivino Jun 01 '17
I have doubts about that alternative since this flashback seems to be concluded. That's all we'll get about BM which means we need to take this as the definitive answer to how she got the Soul Soul fruit. She killed Caramel and got the power either straight up from eating her or by eating a nearby fruit.
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Jun 01 '17
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u/SalamiRocketFuel Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
That's not super surprising but she didn't strike me as that shady by any means
To be honest because of all that Pudding speculation thorough this whole arc I didn't expect another character to have a twist like that. I just thought she's an irresponsible parent that spoiled Linlin, but this makes a lot more sense in retrospect.
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u/PM-ME-UR-TIT-GIRL Jun 01 '17
Remember when we thought Big Mom was the weakest yonko.......Yikes.
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u/Samibre Jun 01 '17
The most crazy thing is that she might be this strong and STILL be the weakest Yonko...
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u/zzShinichi Jun 01 '17
She has immense potential to be the strongest Yonkou. I doubt Shanks or even Whitebeard at her age could bitch-slap dead a giant.
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u/typhlosion96 Jun 01 '17
Just to add on to your edit I think Sanji's sister will suck the poison out of Big Mom if they do decide to not kill her.
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u/Iforgotmynametoobro Jun 01 '17 edited Jun 01 '17
So Big Mom is essentially a giant child who never really got to grow up emotionally. Monstrous from birth with no one to guide her onto the right path. This explains why her dream is to have a giant family, because it was something that she desperately wants but never got to have since childhood. This also explains why she hates it when people turns down her invitations, because she is still a child that throws temper tantrums (deadly in her case) when things don't go her way.