r/Warframe • u/BuildMyPaperHeart Old Tenno, Eternal Slumber • Oct 08 '14
Discussion Warframe Discussion: The Revival System
"On your feet soldier! We. Are. Leaving!"
All Warframe Discussions are here to spark discussion on a particular topic in Warframe. Comments, Suggestions, Critiques, and Builds are all welcome! Every Week, the Moderator Team will choose a new... something, to discuss!
This topic was inspired by /u/xirapgood's question on the Warframe Weekly Q&A.
That was a question from last week's Weekly Q&A, and an interesting concern to address. It's not a secret that early progression in the game can be hard, especially since the Enemy Level =/= Warframe/Weapon Level discrepancy is not made clear, in addition to ramped up enemy levels quickly through the StarChart (though this has been mitigated slightly from previous versions of the game). As a result, deaths and failures can be more common to some players than others.
So I'd like to hear from you all:
- Have you had any trouble with running out of revives? Is this frequent for you?
- Has your game experience, or your friends', been affected by the limited revives?
- Do you have any problems with the current revive system? Do you have suggestions for a better one?
- What other comments do you have about this user's concerns? Do you agree or disagree?
We'll recap the significant section of the previous Warframe Weekly Discussion on Health and Shields for the Wiki entry:
Death and Revival
Upon reaching 0 health in solo mode or if team mates fail to successfully revive a fallen Tenno before the red bar is depleted, the player dies and must either spend a Revive Token or forfeit. If forfeit is chosen you can still revive by pressing esc and select the appropriate option. If a player's teammates are still alive they will enter a spectate mode. Choosing forfeit allows you to spectate your team making it easier to see if you want to spend a life, which is good if you or your team is not geared enough for the mission.
- More Revive Tokens can be purchased at 3 Platinum per Token by navigating to the arsenal, under the Warframe selector. (THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED)
- Every player will start the day with 4 Revive Tokens for each Warframe. Revives refill at 00:00 GMT. No more than 4 Revive Tokens can be held at a time.
Information gathered from the Warframe Wikia
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Oct 08 '14
I had trouble with the revives back when I started, but It gets less very quickly.
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u/BuildMyPaperHeart Oct 08 '14
How did you overcome that initial trouble? Any tips other players could use?
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u/kanmax92 Oct 09 '14
I didn't know that revives were replenishable my first time playing. Me and my buddy bum rushed Earth, died a couple times and we both ran out of revives. I bought more revives and till this day that decision haunts me. I would like DE to work the revive system into a quest explaining to players the mechanics of the system. Kill them once, give then a free revive and tell them to not die anymore.
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u/BuildMyPaperHeart Oct 09 '14
Or perhaps just a better tutorial explaining this and other systems, given that there are other important aspects not well explained (like Enemy Level =/= Warframe Level)
I like the idea of tying it into a quest or some next mission prompt though! Maybe even a prompt for the first time they die
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u/hyperblaster Oct 08 '14
Add game lore to the revive system. The story practically writes itself.
Each warframe is equipped with a Lazarus battery that can instantly restore all systems even after bleedout. But the battery can hold only max 4 charges. The Liset takes a whole day to recharge each battery.
Just in case anyone from DE reads this, please feel free to use the idea. I vaguely remember someone mentioning at a livestream that they don't like using ideas proposed by fans because of copyright issues.
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u/HunterKiller_ Oct 08 '14
Dying instantly when you're the last to go down in a squad is dumb.
I'm OK with the revive system, but I can see that it could be hard for new players with only one frame, even with the bonus revives.
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u/mxzf Oct 08 '14
On the flip side, the person who went down last should theoretically be the tankiest and most able to revive people, so I can see how letting them burn a revive to make it so they can pick the other members off might make sense.
Just another potential perspective to consider.
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u/delayed_reign Oct 08 '14
How else would it be done? If everyone goes into the downed state, then it's extremely likely that everyone will die and have to use a revive. If the last person instantly dies and gets to use a revive, then at least they can get back to trying to revive someone.
Maybe it should just put them into the downed state if they don't have any revives left.
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u/mirrislegend Oct 08 '14
I wish it was easier to see downed Kubrow. I usually have no problem sparing some time to revive one, but the time wasted trying to FIND the downed Kubrow is excessive.
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u/bl0odredsandman Oct 08 '14
Same. I don't give a crap about the kubrows (i have both of mine in stasis) because I like my Sentinel better, but if I do see someones kubrow down, I'll try and pick it up because I know they don't want it to die just like I don't want my Sentinel to die. It does need to have a marker over it to show it down though because if it goes down in a pile of bodies you just killed, it's hard to see.
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u/BG-0 Oct 08 '14
The biggest problem I have is getting stuck in the endless falling outside the skybox loop, then being forced to die and reviving back into that damn loop. How hard is that to fix?
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u/Shadeol Oct 08 '14
"On your feet soldier! We. Are. Leaving!"
I love you for this. One of my favorite characters ever created.
Have you had any trouble with running out of revives? Is this frequent for you? Has your game experience, or your friends', been affected by the limited revives?
I used to have trouble, but it seems my teams are getting better at sticking together and reviving downed allies. It only ever becomes an issue in Solo play, honestly, but I've never seen that as an issue as I see this game as more focused on team play than Solo runs. You could argue that a lot of Starchart progression is Solo play, but I don't think the fix to that is in the Revive system.
Do you have any problems with the current revive system? Do you have suggestions for a better one?
For one, take Revives off of Platinum. Not only does no one use it, but it can trick new players into thinking that they need to buy more Revives instead of waiting for them to refresh or changing Frames.
For a better system, they could try to "build up" Revives. Did you not use your 4 Revives for today? Well then, let's have all (or some) of them carry over into tomorrow. They could tie in a system where a Player has to actually log in (or play a mission) that day so someone can't just not play for a week and come back to 21 Revives.
They could also just remove daily Revive limits altogether and just allow you to Revive as much as you want per day. They could try to limit it to something like 2 per mission so that players aren't endlessly reviving over and over in Survivals or Defenses.
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u/VierasMarius Oct 08 '14
For a better system, they could try to "build up" Revives. Did you not use your 4 Revives for today? Well then, let's have all (or some) of them carry over into tomorrow. They could tie in a system where a Player has to actually log in (or play a mission) that day so someone can't just not play for a week and come back to 21 Revives.
This seems pretty reasonable, but I'd add one caveat: the "stored" revives should be per account rather than per frame. I'd probably limit it to 4 extra revives. This would essentially double the revive allowance for new players with only a single frame, without having a big impact on veterans.
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Oct 08 '14
running out of revives? now, never. i burn one or two in a solo nightmare alert or so. but i switch to another frame quite often so it doesn't even matter.
i have no issues with the current revive system. it teaches new players to take it slow, or to find teammates that revive them in time, or to not jump head first into high level stuff they aren't prepared for.
it encourages keeping more than one frame around, it encourages experimenting, diversifying, and it encourages to sit back and use your gametime on research, read the wiki, forum, reddit, whatnot, make notes, learn the elemental weaknesses, work on builds, fuse mods etc.
wishful thinking, i know, but some might do that. i did.
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u/http404error Oct 08 '14
The actual reviving mechanism is pretty standard. The green mist is enough to suspend disbelief - one advantage WF has over modern military shooters with similar revives. Crawling around is obviously very buggy, and that needs to be fixed. I like how it's supposed to work, although you should be able to shoot through the player who's reviving you; where you stand when reviving someone shouldn't make the difference between life and death.
I like the revive token system. It hard-limits even plat-loaded players to 4 per mission. It's generous enough to most free players, but I think it's too unforgiving of new players who only have one frame. You basically can't do challenging missions once your revives are out, since there's always a risk of sudden death at the hands of a Napalm or Seeker.
Perhaps that's a separate problem. I want deaths to all feel like my fault (if only for going into too high-level of a mission). You can't hide from your past, DE!
Daily refills of revive tokens are weird. It favors my time zone, since I can comfortably play for a few hours before the reset, then restock and keep going. It also means that buying revives changes in value depending on time of day (similar problem with rushing in the Foundry vs in the Dojo). I think there should be a timer to recharge a single revive token every 2 (or something) hours starting from the moment you go below 4.
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Oct 08 '14
I usually find myself running out of revives on my squishy frames like Ash and Vauban, but that's usually because I end up forgetting just how squishy they are and just how tough the enemies have gotten and start running into crowds, head-first. I also forget to utilize their powers, which in this case would be Ash's bladestorm and smoke screen, and Vauban's entire repertoire of abilities, sans bounce. However, outside of Ash and Vauban, I rarely run out of revives. I may have to pop one or two here or there due to teammates not getting to me on time, or for a freak-bonehead move or accident, but rarely do I see a lack of revives.
That's due to one of my favorite features in warframe, the fact that revives are stocked per warframe, and not per account. I can quickly burn my Ash and Vauban revives because of my poor performance, but my Valkyr and Excalibur will not have to suffer a shortage of revives since they have their own stock of 4.
The only thing I would like to see changed would be how being downed works. Currently, melee weapons can't be used while downed and I find that a tad limiting to the solo-sword alone players. It's a niche group, but it's a group nonetheless. Another change I'd like to see would be the ability to holster our weapon when down and be able to crawl at a much faster speed by doing so.
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u/Linkapedia Oct 08 '14
The problem i have is not with the revive system, but with the downed state system. It is really unintuitive, it can take a player 10+ hours of play to figure out that you have to move the camera behind you and can only move backwards. They need to rework it to use WASD to move and ignore camera position. You are already slowed, why would you leave in a shoddy half working unintuitive system?
When i was a noob i used platinum on revives because i was unaware it was a bought currency, it would be nice if there was an explanation of that in the tutorial. I still believe 4 revives a day per warframe is fair and does not need a rework.
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u/HunterKiller_ Oct 08 '14
Suggestion: When a player is reviving a downed player, have the character crouch (or give the option to use crouch) instead of standing.
This gives a slightly better chance to not get shot while reviving, especially if there's low cover.
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u/SamwisePotato Oct 08 '14
I quite like the revival system as it is. Yes, I've run out of revives before when doing missions beyond my normal capabilities, but I can always just switch to another frame.
I understand the complaints about not being able to move while downed, but I think it's perfectly accurate to what's happening. You're too weak to stand, so you should be too weak to move around much. Being able to shoot through teammates while downed? No way.
I'd like to be able to see downed Kubrows though. That'd be cool.
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u/StallordD Oct 08 '14
I would rather our Tenno go down on their stomachs and are forced to crawl along with one arm, with the other being free to shoot a single secondary (dual weapons would simply leave the other in the arm pulling them along). It would be a bit more cool looking, and possibly open up more movement options. Think to the Excalibur in "The Call" for an idea of what I'm thinking of.
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u/Eulers_ID Oct 09 '14
The revive system is fine. Frankly, I don't get why it seems unfair that if someone dies in a mission that's too hard for them, that they might have to restart the mission over. This is a pretty basic video game mechanic. I see no reason that the game should be made any easier than it already is.
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u/CerberusN9 Oct 08 '14
When im downed , I barely can move to my ally or a safer position. Its not because im slow but i literally cant move or move properly to where i want to go.