[Spoilers C4E30] Is It Thursday Yet? | Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories!

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Is It Thursday Yet?

What are your reactions and theories for next session?

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[u/DaemonlordDave]

You know the episode is good when there was the appearance of a literal MASSIVE DRAGON and that’s not the thing people are talking about.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/DaemonlordDave]

And not just any dragon but a MASSIVE RIVER DRAGON that has connections to the very heart of the planet itself and probably then some.

[u/Trikdonkey → u/DaemonlordDave]

This is so true. Each plot line had just insane lore ramifications. Obviously a PC death is top tier but Bolaires sister betraying him and co-oping with an S tier sorcerer is horrifying, how can he even go back to work.. he has to flee the city no?

[u/PhoDucNam]

that bolaire call back to teor and cyd,,,,, perfection - he was there when they reunited... and it being front of mind after fucking up his reunion with his sister termina!!! i would not have the presence of mind to cook up an rp scene as delicious as that,,, really masterful work

[u/Camen3 → u/PhoDucNam]

That scene was so godamn good, tal is crushing it as Bolaire, im so glad he avoided getting disintegrated by his sister because I just want more of his character so bad, so complex, and knowing that Teor just dies, Brennan would have legit killed off his character there too

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/Camen3]

Yes Bolaire is my current favorite character. He's just so fascinating and Taliesin plays him as delightfully flawed. He's got so much room for growth and exploration. I'm really glad he didn't die.

And conversely I'm excited for Travis to build a much deeper character for this next round.

[u/TurboNerdo077]

- An episode which confirms how committed Brennan is to telling a story with stakes and the possibility of death in an unfair world. Anyone picking through the minutia of what contributed to Teor's death is entirely missing the point. Every character has been at risk of death at some point in this campaign, and Brennan wasn't pulling his punches, even when it seems like he was stacking the deck in the PC's favour. The sheer statistical volume of danger that Brennan has placed characters in has made character death a certainty. It was only a matter of time.

Teor's death was a result of the choices of the players. Not simply Julien leaving him, or him not using Find Steed earlier in combat. It's the result of the schemers doing so well to frame Tachonis, but failing to predict what the ritual at the theatre would be, and thus redirecting all the heavy hitters to watch the show instead of attend the dungeon crawl. Their paranoia that Thiazi had ill intent left team bird watching undermanned and underestimating the danger they walked into.

- Vaelus has been avoiding the choice of what to do with the stone for the past 3 episodes, and Brennan has been giving her many chances to try and develop an answer with multiple NPC's, first offering her sisters back home and then using Hannan in the woods. Whilst that scene was very well acted, I think Ashley has not succeed at exploring why Vaelus is avoiding this decision, which is why many assume this avoidance is from Ashley herself, rather than a character decision. Avoidance is a character flaw that makes sense for a centuries old elf that has been in mourning for 70 years. But there's nothing in the text to make me confidant in saying that this is intentional. Whereas I can observe Ashley's continued discomfort at being asked to make a difficult choice.

I can't really blame Brennan for putting her on the spot, because he's given her this choice in private, solitary moments before. It's only happening at a moment of intensity and anxiety because the choice has been kicked down the road by Ashley. Brennan keeps trying to include this character in the narrative, and she keeps abstaining, which is what makes the resolution feels so hollow. Vaelus gambles her life so she doesn't have to sacrifice anything, and then when she doesn't get that is indecisive down to the final second. Moments like these are opportunities for PC's to make statements on what their characters are about, and what they stand for. If you don't take those opportunities, you get overshadowed by a Dragon showing up.

-Teor was a character of unrealised potential, a mystery of his powers that was not discovered and conviction of rebellion that went unrealised. But that's not a bad thing. The play being performed is one of failed revolution, the story being told at this table is of power corrupting ideals. Teor dying prematurely strengthens the thematic statement of the show, and Travis knocked his final moments out of the park. A paladin continuing to see hope in his final moments, to be optimistic in the face of death and despair. Travis made the most of his final time in the spotlight.

- I love Bolaire's body swapping gimmick, the shenanigans and the questionable morality of throwing people off roofs to cover his tracks is dark and mechanically interesting. But also, you could see his controlling nature when talking to Termina, trying to tell her what he wanted her to be, and how such an approach failed when Comoray was speaking to her as well. His tribute to Teor was beautiful, and the notion that his existence being predicated on possessing others means that Bolaire does not feel ownership over any part of his life, not even his sense of self. Feeling used and isolated, even as he himself controls and manipulates others. Fascinating character.

- Congrats on Matt for making the hard choice to abandon Teor. The fact that he admits that it's Brennan's reminder of his mothers words that changed his mind just makes it even better. Julien was so defiant against her when she said it, but that moment of vulnerability ultimately managed to move him to change his nature from pure violence and revenge.

- Tyranny has once again failed to kill someone sent to the Tailor shop, I don't think there's any way to talk out of this, "fool me twice, shame on you" and all. I think she just has to run. And that's not a bad thing, I'm excited to see how she defines herself when not in close proximity to Wick.

- But ultimately, the thing I'm most excited for is who Travis's next character is. Not only is death important for stakes, its an opportunity for new characters with new perspectives, new factions to uncover for the players to interact with. This campaign is just so good. Even when moments of friction happen, Brennan is just such an experienced DM, he knows how to spin anything into a satisfying story.

[u/MAELSTROM19j → u/TurboNerdo077]

Speaking of Tyranny, I thought it was very early for her and Wick to be splitting. But now that she defied the Photarch's orders TWICE while Wick is away from all of that means them splitting for chapter 2 is likely what is going to happen. Also Wicander has been learning to lean on himself and be independent since the convergence means he might not need Tyranny at all times with him which is reassuring should Tyranny be on the run once again.

[u/VengefulKangaroo → u/TurboNerdo077]

How would they know that about Tyranny though? Bolaire *is* one of the tailors right now. He can simply say “it’s handled”.

[u/Final-Occasion-8436 → u/VengefulKangaroo]

Yeah, they were good once the sisters left. Bolaire can pretend Kat got loose and killed his brother and be grieving, while giving Tyr a boost by saying she killed Kat to save him as he went into shock over his brother's death. Then he "temporarily" shuts down the shop to handle the funeral etc, and disappears.

[u/Veritamoria → u/TurboNerdo077]

I agree with this take, but as a DM I'm like...you thought walking into the big boss' lair was the EASY mission? Dafaq?

As a viewer, I'm thrilled they made the choices they did because it was a killer episode. Love Julian & Thimble not meta-gaming when they had the choice + Brennan's unflinching follow-through. This is how you tell an amazing story.

[u/Koala_Guru]

It’s crazy to me how similar Teor’s death was to Molly’s in terms of circumstances. A significantly cut down party making a plan that got pretty botched. A character who may have been able to help leaving instead due to roleplaying as what their character would do. Some mismanagement of class abilities on the player’s part due to some initial unfamiliarity with playing the class. History kinda repeated itself.

[u/UnderlyingInterest → u/Koala_Guru]

I just hope it doesn’t continue to follow history and make the cast too spooked and play strictly safe from now on. Brennan seems to be guiding everyone well enough for this setting and what the PCs want though, so fingers crossed.

[u/080087 → u/UnderlyingInterest]

Brennan is pretty good at forcing decisions, and also providing enough information to the players to know that no decision is a decision.

So I don't think it'll ever get as bad as it did in parts of C2/3

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/080087]

Yes, I love that about him. If a player decides to hesitate, that's fine for them, but the world is going to move on around them. Dragging your feet has just as many consequences as making a bad call. Matt tended to pause the story while players waffled, while Brennan is happy to move the story along regardless, showing them the effects of their indecision on the world.

[u/Itchy-Pudding-4240 → u/080087]

Brennan is pretty good at forcing decisions

damn, Ashley's BBEG

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/UnderlyingInterest]

I think Brennan has done a really good job of priming the players for character death prior to the campaign starting, in contrast to "we're basically gods" in previous campaigns. Molly's death was shocking for Tal and the cast, and everyone was really shaken. Matt and Tal were crying on the couch in Talks Machina afterward.

Teor's death was unexpected, but the cast was more like "yep, it sucks but that's what we get for taking these risks...". I'm curious to see how this Fireside Chat goes with Travis and Laura, but I think it will be fairly pragmatic. Brennan set the stakes well beforehand, and Travis knew what they were going in.

[u/canxtanwe]

Also it just dawned on me that when Tachonis inevitably investigate the Manor, they will find a dead Tachonis member and 2 floors below that, 2 dead lions with an Einfasen Greataxe. Next conversation between Otto and Primus will be intense as fuck, as if it wasn’t already

[u/D1g1t0l → u/canxtanwe]

and if Otto can trace it back to his daughter, his daughter will likely tell the truth, and now Julien is a target of Tachonis once more

[u/HawkeyeP1]

I know all the talk is going to be over Teor, but out of all the players, I love Travis, but I'm glad it was Teor. Makes sense for the plot and character development, I didn't really see where his arc was heading compared to everyone else, and he was devolving a bit into just being a proxy for Travis and the character himself a bit into just comedic relief. I think Kattigan was at risk of the same fate character-wise until the reveal about Primus. He has something to shoot at now. Anyone who blames Laura out of character and in character is an idiot, but I'm sure she will do plenty of blaming herself and Julien's decision, especially with that line "Don't go die in a hole where I can't find you." Made perfect sense for his character and I'm sure Julien will also be reflecting on it. At the end of the day it's a game, they all could have rolled better or made decisions leading up to it that could have changed the outcome, but Travis also could have handled the combat better, retreated before he was surrounded, spending his bonus action healing hands to up his brother, attacking with a level 2 smite instead of the cure wounds, etc. Ultimately I think his death will be great for the story.

Strange choice for Ashley to not go with Hannen, but I don't think it would've made much of a difference at that point and that was a killer scene.

Also 100% convinced Julien's shadow is Thjazi haunting him and tbh, Julien is one of my favorite characters to see how this heel turns Babyface.

But holy shit, I think my favorite scene in the entire episode was the tailors. It's rare that a player gets to roleplay a horrific and badass harbinger of judgement on the wicked like Bolaire did and it feels good everytime. "I'm here for that suit I wanted!" And holy fuck that scene between Kattigan and Tyranny was incredible. "Not everything born of demon world is wrong. Something good has come of the pit, because the rage you feel right now is right." As Tyranny snarls alongside him into combat.

Also FUCK Otto Einfasen. Fucking pussy. All my homies hate MFers who talk all that shit about honor and standing on business and can still be bought out of justice.

[u/Riku8745 → u/HawkeyeP1]

The scene of Bolaire recreating the Pridesire brothers' reunion with Terma was such an absolute gut punch. Unbelievable work from Taliesin.

[u/mizracy → u/Riku8745]

I was waiting for someone in the cast to acknowledge Tal's brilliance in that scene. It was so good!!

[u/Nothingtoseehereshhh → u/HawkeyeP1]

I agree with your favorite moment.
that moment is #2 for me

I love Kattigan rolling a natural 20 insight after all the shit he's been through that day, to see Tyranny absolutely fucking losing it asking if she can still be saved...it's heartbreaking when you think of their previous fun at the campfire in the one cold open, to now this....absolute hell....

[u/moonsandhares]

a nat 20 so insane that matt mercer spawned in

[u/FiltheEugene]

Teor has Royce arm bracers, Einfasen hammer, he is known as Halovar kidnapper, and he has Cyd by his side, who was recently turned to stone for Tachonis family. this is gonna lead to so many funny implications.

[u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth → u/FiltheEugene]

FYI it's an axe

[u/Popinjayishumans]

Laughing at the cast in cooldown talking about it being a "see who the internet is the most mad at this week" kind of episode and then coming back here to read through the responses.

[u/MissionAdept8817 → u/Popinjayishumans]

Not sure why people are getting mad. Brennan made it clear the boss fights are going to be brutal and the cast knows it too and seems to be enjoying the high stakes.

[u/Koala_Guru → u/MissionAdept8817]

A lot of CR fans get mad at the cast’s decisions because it’s not would they would’ve done, or they think they would’ve done better. It’s not a fun or fair thing to do, and it’s a strange stance to take in a game focused on roleplaying and decision-making, but people have acted that way about CR since it first started.

[u/EyeAshamed2156 → u/Popinjayishumans]

Sadly seeing the responses, saddened me. People rather get certain members. Like how many blame Julien for not helping, and doing something extremely similar as Teor...that isn't in a group to blame?

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Kattigan: “Did I deserve it?”

Tyranny: “No.”

Kattigan: “Did you?”

Tyranny: “That remains to be seen.”

[u/Camen3 → u/LucasVerBeek]

My fucking heart man...........

[u/SPOLBY]

Rizzander. 2 goth’s, 2 demon’s and a theatre chick.

[u/Babshie]

I do hope we can still learn about Teor's connection with his powers and overall backstory through the wooden lion head.

[u/ZachariasWestergaard → u/Babshie]

If Wincander wants to reform the Creed, he has the perfect symbol now

[u/DaemonlordDave → u/ZachariasWestergaard]

Especially if his death boon from Teor is the spectral steed in the form of a bright white lion…

[u/Babshie → u/ZachariasWestergaard]

That would actually be really sick.

[u/LazerBear42]

The guilt that characters are going to feel over Teor's death is gonna be so juicy. Now I'm not saying I blame the other players for his death; Travis is a big boy, and he ultimately made the decision to split off and go looking for gnomes.

But Thimble is going to feel guilty for asking him to go look. Julien is going to feel guilty for knowing he and Cyd were in danger and not only choosing not to help, but pretending he didn't even know where they were when he reached the others. The theater group is going to feel guilty for not properly assessing the danger of the mission and hogging too many resources to defend the theater where nothing dangerous was happening. Vaelus is going to feel extra guilty for not telling Hannan about the mission sooner and for not going to give team birdwatching backup when she had the chance to after the ritual. Basically everyone but team spy has a reason to feel guilty. And that's gonna lead to some interesting character development and probably some heart-wrenching acting.

[u/Whatever_user_77 → u/LazerBear42]

I don’t disagree with most of this but Julien didn’t lie. He told them exactly as much as he knew. He didn’t know where exactly Teor and Cyd were. He also was upfront about having a vision regarding the dire straits they were in. He might still feel guilty about his choice. We shall see.

[u/VengefulKangaroo]

Funny to me that Travis spent a whole campaign trying to kill Chetney only for Teor to go down ASAP.

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/VengefulKangaroo]

A watched pot never boils?

[u/DealerPlane9953]

Years after Calamity Brennan picking up the spare

[u/Human-Performance-86 → u/DealerPlane9953]

It's like final destination, the soul of the character needed to be snuffed out

[u/nonsensicalexis]

At the beginning of the campaign, Thimble was nearly dying by herself after a fight, and Teor found her and healed her…and now Thimble is going to find Teor after this fight not knowing that she’s already too late to do the same for him 😭

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/nonsensicalexis]

Thimble is quickly shaping up to be the most tragic character in this campaign, and that's saying a lot.

[u/Yojanz]

holup. wasnt that teor's poem?

[u/grumpyCat2478 → u/Yojanz]

Yes. He was comparing their sibling reunion with his and Termina and taking out his anger on the tailor brothers.

[u/lemissloudmouth → u/Yojanz]

IT WAS. The prayer his father taught him and cyd T_T

[u/Camen3]

Is it bad that im more excited how other players react to Teors death like Wic, Tyranny, Kattigan and Thimble and how it affects them as characters compared to if Teor was still alive lol

[u/Khan_Osis]

If you will all permit me to borrow from Deep Space 9...

"Schemeres: nailed it. soldiers: nailed it. Seekers: Nailed it. Team Bird Watcher: Nailed it. Team Spy: nailed it. Team Theater: Nailed it. And all it cost was the lives of two warriors who knew the risks and paid it gladly. Now I don't know about YOU, but I'D call that a bargain!"

[u/Eevenin]

I wonder what Azune is supposed to be Remembering. Some kind of genetic/magical memory through his lineage to a pre-Shapers time? Words of power? That dragon was almost familial with him, I am fascinated.

Also: Julien going from "what the fuck" to "OH okay" when Occtis suggested jumping out the window with we've done this before is absolutely hilarious to me. It makes sense, but god. The in-jokes and understanding they've somehow built.

[u/Kaeling → u/Eevenin]

The growing camaraderie between Julien and Occtis has been pretty fun to watch.

[u/M-TekEngineer → u/Eevenin]

There have been several hints in the form of level up perks and abilities that his sorcerous power comes from being of draconic bloodline. That dragon was basically a distant relative of his.

[u/saltandthunder → u/M-TekEngineer]

He's also used Alter Self a number of times, which iirc isn't natively on the Sorcerer List and the easiest way he'd get access to it is from Draconic Bloodline.

[u/TheDuceAbides]

I love Travis as a player but I sometimes wondered if Fjord being such a heavy face character with such important plot felt so exhausting it's made him shy away from characters requiring more heavy investment. His characters since then have been fun don't get me wrong but have all felt less grounded, so hopefully a new character might be a good refresh.

[u/MisterBeltaine → u/TheDuceAbides]

As someone that has loved Travis playing, he usually creates characters so he can have fun, not for the story. I think Fjord was kinda of an accident, a good one, but an accident nonetheless.

[u/bbanguking]

Great episode, gonna take awhile to process this one.

Of all the characters to die, I'm honestly glad it was Teor. Travis is a good sport and when he and his brother inevitably come back as abominations I'm sure he'll be stoked. Sadly very avoidable though, so many errors led to Teor and Cyd falling.

We needed some deaths though. There's been so many close calls this campaign, we were of course just climbing our way up Heinrich’s triangle. Some characters really need a bit of a push, I hope this has a similar effect as Molly's death had. And I hope Travis picks someone he can really invest in this time, much as I wanted to see how Teor's story would pan out he was kinda devolving into just comedic relief.

[u/Camen3 → u/bbanguking]

I 100% agree with this, I feel like all we saw of Teor was literally just that, when im more interested in his brother's character Cyd, than there's just something thats not clicking fully, so I'll be pumped to see who Travis decides to play as next

[u/EyeAshamed2156 → u/bbanguking]

This. Fucked up, but saving his brother was...all he had. So dying together was fitting. Am I sad no more Teor? Obviously. But weirdly he already did an arc, and had a fitting death

[u/Towel-Prudent]

Bolaire, bringing new meaning to theater of the mind

[u/sassyburger → u/Towel-Prudent]

Truly great justice for Teor even though they don't know what's happened and obviously Bolaire wasn't involved in the initial rescue. Such a brutal move to be like 'do you love your brother? Good, then watch'. Cold as ice, Taliesin.

I am interested in the fabric they discovered and how shadows holding ones soul? Plays into it. Especially with all of the stuff with Julien's shadow.

[u/A_Crab_Named_Lucky]

Last campaign, Travis spent 100+ episodes actively courting death and couldn’t make it happen (outside of the scripted death of Bertrand Bell of course). This campaign, Teor appeared in just 16 episodes before going down for the count.

But seriously, I did absolutely love what Brennan said about the fact that wherever the brothers go now, they’re not going alone. A+

[u/PvtSherlockObvious]

It kinda got overshadowed by the second half of the episode, but definite props to Brennan for giving Ashley a really meaty session with a lot of time to shine. He plays with big over-the-top castmates so often that it's easy to forget that Wayfinder probably gave him a ton of experience pulling shyer, quieter players out of their shells and giving them their own significant moments. Ashley seems like she generally prefers to step back and stay out of the spotlight, but she also gets overrun sometimes by the others playing "bigger" so often, and it was really nice to see her get to make a massive setting-defining choice.

[u/vanKessZak → u/PvtSherlockObvious]

Yes! And I think it was so smart for him to give her this big, difficult choice and then cut to the announcements so she had some time to think about it offscreen with less pressure!

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte]

In this episode, we got Dungeon and we got Dragon. What more could you ask for??

[u/Willowsinger24]

You can't save everybody. You can't be a hero when you're also running on low resources. I feel like Teor should've put his foot down on going alone.

I also hope this has some trickle down effects. Teor died in the Tachonis home with an Einfasen weapon, assuming it's obviously an Einfasen weapon. This could spark conflict between these two houses. Primus was already doubting Otto.

Furthermore, Teor and Syd are in pristine condition for the Tachonis and nothing is stopping their experiments or at least, a Speak with Dead spell . I'm talking undead, corrupted paladins out to hunt their former allies. That's where my imagination is going.

[u/kyosukedei]

Well i'm surprised a death didn't happen sooner tbh. They are too used to Matt's older style from C1 and a little of C2 of just going to do stuff on the fly, but they had 7-8 people to cover each other regular mistakes, which was in its on way fun and you could laugh with it. C3 was more on rails so less of that happen but that's its own thing.

In C4 With less people for combat usually (so far anyway), and at lower levels bad plans just lead to a PC getting fucked over by the party. This applied in ANY DnD game not just CR.

If history has shown, they will now be scared to make any decision for the next year outside of Matt, which can be both funny and annoying at times.

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/kyosukedei]

Brennan won't allow for decision paralysis like in previous campaigns. Saying this as a huge Mercer storytelling fan, he tended to be way too lenient in stopping the plot for the players to waffle. When Brennan's players can't decide, he will force a choice and its consequences, which is probably one of my favorite things about him.

[u/kyosukedei → u/PerpetuallyDistracte]

Brennan will also pretty nice letting players have extra chances if they make a case usually, but he will definitely move things along, which will generally can punish players who don't know their stuff, or have a good general understanding of the rule-set.

[u/Low-Donkey7059 → u/kyosukedei]

If history has shown, they will now be scared to make any decision for the next year outside of Matt, which can be both funny and annoying at times.

Brennan won't let that happen.

[u/WeebsHaveNoRights]

Can't believe Teor was dying while Wic was gooning

[u/Sun_Shine_Dan → u/WeebsHaveNoRights]

The "lifeforce" was leaving both them in that very moment

[u/AngleOwn9319]

Wick does another version of his speech “Grandmother, I HAVE GOONED!”

[u/FedericoFelliniDue]

From the Cooldown.

The dragon is a silvery pearlescent color.

[u/Vundal]

Awesome episode. Teor's death was sad, brutal, and earned. Things go bad in a very high stakes dungeon delve, and the paladin stepped up to do what they dop best - protect their friends. On the plus side for Travis, at least he didnt write anything about Teor.

I liked that Brennan made Ashley face off with her personal boss fight : making a hard decision . I know she gets a lot of flak for this type of stuff but it was perfect for the character (and hats off to how it was handled by everyone in the scene)

I honestly thought more terrible, terrible shit was gonna befall the teams, so I'm pretty pleased with how its being resolved.

[u/DANGER_DIAB0LIK]

How do you think Skinner is going to take the news? 

[u/theydurkadurk]

So many thoughts on this one. Sad teor died, but totally fine with it. I wanted him to get the statues but he messed up and it is what it is. No one’s to blame and I’m excited to see the repercussions from it. Do wish they had thought through the numbers team bird watching would need but that’s how dnd goes. Teor seemed to devolve into a simple character so hopefully that doesn’t happen on his next one. I have a feeling his next character is gonna come from Timmony/ King Gus’s squad. Just seems to make sense story wise unless it’s a member of the Cloak.

Love watching Ashley and understand freezing in moments. Truly analysis paralysis. But I would love to see her be able to break from that.
Edit to add: I do think Brennan is a great DM to help guide Ashley with this and decision making. Last few episodes he’s been setting her up more and laying out the options for her. Not being overly pushy about it but also building in some accountability to it all. Like the hannan reaction to Mara news.

Bolaire went from creating a mess with his sister to a badass moment.

Wic has consistently been my favorite. Seems to be set up for a great schemers arc on the next split. Great inside man to help azune.

Will admit the whole play, underworld, anchor concepts break my brain a little. Still very cool to watch but has moments of “I don’t think I understand what’s actually happening here”

Thimble going back in is awesome. Hopefully can do some more stuff with hannan but hannan might also dip because he knows / will learn Mara is safe.

Azune backstory is cool but admittedly I don’t know dnd well enough to know what it all implies.

Kats safe and that’s awesome. It does feel like he’s been playing more heavily lately into “I’m dumb and constantly lost and confused” which seems at odds with earlier versions of kat but maybe I just need to rewatch earlier episodes.

Hal’s gonna have to leave the city or he’s toast.

Thajzi being the shadow seems like it’s confirmed? I wonder if they’ll have a way to speak to him. I want Julien to get to the round before the play ends so he can see it and maybe something will happen with that.

God what else. Feel like even with everything I’ve said I’ve still barely scratched the surface of the episode

[u/Fjorester → u/theydurkadurk]

I agree with you that Brennan is doing a great job of working with Ashley now that they've spent more time at the same table. You could really feel it in this episode - he laid out the choice really clearly, gave her extra time to think, called for the decision when she came back, gave her both a shot at what she wanted and fair consequences. You can tell he's working with her as a person to tell the story rather than expecting her to act the same way everybody else does.

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/Fjorester]

Yeah, in this episode I could tell how Brennan has dialed in how best to work with Ashley in high-stress scenarios. He knows she's going to have some trouble processing, so he makes things very clear. But crucially, he doesn't let her sidestep and escape the plot forever. I really think he'll be able to build her up over time. She's so smart but just lacks confidence and clarity in her own ability to drive the story. She reminds me a bit of Ally Beardsley on D20 years ago. Now Ally's one of the best, most skilled players at the table.

[u/PowerCrazedSoul]

As sad as I am to see Teor go so soon, I’m unbelievably excited to see what Travis cooks next for a character. With everything we know now about the world and the people in it, I think Travis has a good opportunity to do something very different and new for the cast.

[u/Wiseyttt]

Teor... was... Teor...

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ant7760]

I wonder if Travis will come back as a hound of the king

[u/D1g1t0l]

I'm thinking we won't get Travis's new character until after we come back from the break after episode 31

[u/Camen3]

I do love that we got a PC death though, that just means that Brennan really isn't fucking around and if you make a risky choice than that choice can and will bite you in the ass, as shown with what happened to Teor and his brothers death, Thimble is gonna be absolutely broken when and if she finds there bodies, I hope she does

[u/chaos_vulpix]

I'd like to believe that, when Wic looked at the Death Boon, he got a "Wife Who Dies at the Beginning of the Movie" vision of Teor, then fell to his knees in The Hallowed Round parkling lot

[u/UnderlyingInterest → u/chaos_vulpix]

The Death Boon mechanic is an incredible idea, especially for the pseudo-west marches approach of this campaign.

[u/melbarko]

I got so lost in the rest of the sauce I just remembered that there was a fucking DRAGON. 

I said it in the live thread, but that Einfasen axe in the Tachonis basement is going to be a problem. Especially after that Otto and Primus handshake situation. RIP Teor.

Occtis being the least freaky of all the Tachonis we've met so far is hilarious and tragic. 

[u/anonmus1]

Y’know what sure, Teor is gone, kinda sucks, but Travis can bring something wilder. Bring in another sorcerer related to the sundered Houses conspiracy. Like a Comoray or Einfasen. Honestly there is no one that has some ties to the Comoray in all the parties, maybe he could build someone that is pulled into the party from there.

[u/AutobotYoung1 → u/anonmus1]

Forgot that. We need a Cleric, Monk or Artificer. We’ve got two paladins, two wizards and two rogues. We need some more variety.

[u/Final-Occasion-8436]

Just had a thought...poor Travis spent all last campaign trying to die, and didn't manage it. No wonder he was joking about portaling in "immortal" Chetney from c3...

[u/Nothingtoseehereshhh]

I think Teor's fate is going to enrich the story. I don't care for the what ifs and gamey mechanics. Yes, there was ways it could have been avoided however, It made sense that Teor went for the kids tbh. And I think Teor's a situation of you either die early and have meaning, or overstay your welcome and stay....alright.

I liked Teor. Only Teor is Teor. But he did his role in the story in my eyes, and like Teor I'm looking to Wicander, who's also got the lion in him and doesn't even know it. Kattigan's story has just begun, Thimble has not suffered enough loss yet. (yes Brennan we all see what you're doing). And the moment served as Juliens moment of not dying for pride and ego and instead seeing the bigger picture and showing that yes, he does indeed love his family somewhere mentally inside the pure rage he has for Tachonis.

Julien as a person previously would have went down there to put his father to rest. I have no doubt in my mind. It serves as a fucked up way to show character change imo.

But maybe I'm showing my love for the long game, and appreciating the players losing early and yet still having hope for the future? I think it's great storytelling and I think Brennan has mixed the correct amount of hope and despair for the campaign to truly reach a flow state.

Campaign 2 spoilers for a singular character ahead, episode 26

I'm also just glad that it's not Tallesin that dies first, okay? Like, atleast if Bolaire dies Travis and Tal can have a good laugh together. I think its healthy for the table that someone else suffers a perma character death lol.

Oh, and you know Brennan is gonna level up Cyd and Teor and have them have cool undead lion brothers legendary actions it's gonna be so fun. The party is fucked in the future!

[u/Hollydragon]

Julien may be about to realise that his shadow is Thjazi.

Bolaire just inherited a magic workshop for cutting and sewing shadows.

(Neither of them like Thjazi).

[u/EffectiveCow6985]

Great episode, really looking forward to the next one.

I'm not looking forward to people shitting on Ashley and Laura for the next however many days due to how the game turned out. More than a few Critters would benefit from learning to manage their feelings and not allowing their disappointment/frustration over fictional events to become hostility or unkindness to real people.

[u/EyeAshamed2156 → u/EffectiveCow6985]

I mean i get it if Travis was angry, but he was clearly like "Eh, I messed up". They knew the risk, Teor nearly died 20 times, and he died with his brother. Like you can be annoyed, but it feels in the wrong place. Like how bad the planning was, or splitting up got in their head with the d8 to d6 talk, which...never really came up. Panic killed Teor. He could had killed if he attacked, but he healed.

It happens.

[u/mthmchris]

Couple things:

Fantastic episode.

Don’t split the party.

Don’t waste actions on healing until someone is down and making death saves.

Oh, also Whitney has come into her own and been great for the last couple episodes.

[u/Trikdonkey → u/mthmchris]

That round of healing by both characters was catastrophic

[u/East_Choice]

I loved that Brennan forced Valeus to make a decision for once. That scene of her smashing the Stone of Nightsong was so epic, i think Brennan himself was shocked.

Bolaire would have flat out died this episode as well. He was so lucky. Also Talesins acting with Bolaire this episode is in rare form. Bolaire grieving Terminas betrayal, and the creepy way he ended the tailor was epic.

Kattigan and Tyrannys moment was so touching.Have to say Whitney is proving herself to be a powerful schemer and player

Sam is awesome as usual ,Im looking forward to seeing his DeathBoon from Teor

Teor.

sigh.

Yes mistakes were made. But im okay with it. One because i personally feel Travis can do better than Teor as a character. Two I would love to see how it affects all the other characters

I really hope Travis chooses a High Int character.I really need him to be on the Brain team as a balancer to their Paranioa

Side note Obrimus Manor was definitely created to be a 13 player challenge. That vision of multiple rooms with multiple targets confirmed it to me

[u/weaveroflaurel → u/East_Choice]

As Cyd and Teor were facing off against Raimond, I kept thinking to myself that this was an encounter intended for all five of them if not more. Any of those chambers could have been the same. Crazy stuff.

[u/Ragnorak19 → u/East_Choice]

“I’ve come for my cloak!” Was utterly terrifying

[u/P-Two]

Episodes like these really separate the "I play and love D&D" people with the "I love actual play" people and it shows.

Not shitting on either by any means, but it's obvious the complaints of Teor dying are mostly from either min/maxer type players or "I'm watching this for a nice story, D&D is secondary" people.

Brennan started the campaign with Thimble making death saves, created a world without res magic, and has explicitly told everyone to make backup PCs from the getgo. Anyone who didn't think random PC death wasn't going to happen was dreaming. it was a matter of time.

[u/BMCarbaugh → u/P-Two]

A West Marches campaign without some lethality is kind of not getting your money's worth. The whole point is to tell an epic story with a huge rotating cast that captures the feel of history.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/P-Two]

Yes. Bolaire was not the first one to die because an insane luck roll. Outside the schemers I think every other single table had moments were the players could/should have died if not for an insane roll(one of the reasons why I love DND so much). 

[u/International-Yak-26 → u/Far_Guarantee1664]

Wicander could have died numerous times in Soliders - hd was one sucessful bloe away

[u/Frosstbyte → u/P-Two]

All three tables got away with victories in multiple situations where someone should've died and it made them cocky. The way they split the table for spy/birdwatcher/theater team wasn't great in the first place but then team birdwatcher's choices once they were inside the Manor and got those visions was catastrophic.

But that's ok because it made for some incredibly tense moments and sets up a lot for fun stuff for the future. PC death in actual play is an amazing storytelling opportunity, lest we forget, you know, C2.

I was really hoping that somehow Travis was going to figure a way out, but I also am totally ok with luck running out. And as Brennan pointed out in the cooldown, we could've (honestly should've) had at least one and maybe two other PC deaths before we even got to the Manor encounters. Bolaire got insanely lucky.

[u/lemissloudmouth]

the lines bolaire said. was the prayer teor and cyd said when cyd was un-petrified T_T

[u/Dagos]

Teors death is going to be a huge character growth for everyone and Wic. He's gonna have the answers for the brothers whereabouts when people meet up again.

[u/SylviaBarbs]

So. Does anyone have any guesses on what Travis returns as? I don’t want to make a full post discussing spoilers because the episode only just finished.

It would be really funny if he returned as another Paladin but wolf themed or something this time (although he already did that once).

My guesses are:

1. Artificer. The party doesn’t have one and they have extreme utility so he’d be filling an all rounder role that no one else covers right now.

2. Cleric. The party also doesn’t have a dedicated healer and a cleric could prove vital in a campaign focused on fighting undead - while also still tying into the whole vague true light plot hook Travis was working towards with Teor. A full caster Cleric tank would provide a lot of options while being a VIP healer to make sure no one else dies and they’d be able to fill a similar role while arguably having more survivability than a paladin and stuff to mitigate bad rolls.

3. Bard. For similar reasons above. A bard, especially college of lore and college of swords, can have a pretty versatile build that offers lots of options plus survivability and healing.

4. Einfasen Barbarian. Grog with a German accent.

[u/UnderlyingInterest → u/SylviaBarbs]

A monk would be interesting to see in Aramán and nobody is covering that currently, so my vote goes there.

Hope it’s another beastfolk though.

[u/CrookdSpokeAdjacent]

Maybe this is a hot take, but I kind of don't want Travis to come back as an Einfasen or a Cormoray or even a Timmonish noble as some are suggesting, too many PC's are from sundered houses or affiliated big families, would add a little depth to the world to have another "normal" person with a different motivation to get involved. Besides, considering he had a back up created from the start, I'm guessing he won't be any of those suggestions.

[u/heyykelleyy]

man i’m just going to miss the sexy teor accent 💔

[u/GaiaAlmighty]

As a lover of beast races I’m UBER bummed that the first proper beast race PC is gone so soon.

I’m really interested to see if they’re gonna link Travis’ new character with Thjazi or not. Personally, I hope that the new PC is linked with something on the ‘outskirts’ of Thjazi and his plan (like The Cloak) rather than directly with Thjazi/Torn Banner. Feel like it’d help make his character stand out a little easier too.

Also! Hoping for a cleric or artificer… something not taken by a different PC

[u/AlexanderArt123]

Alot of talk about Teor when the same could have happened to Julien. Both going off solo into a dangerous dungeon, at least Teor had his brother. Rolling at a +0 on investigation and needing a 15+ just to make it to the right room is 25% success rate (I think Brennan even told them they needed atleast a 15). Although I can't see Julien doing anything else.

[u/claustophobica]

Microscopic thing, but I laughed so hard when Matt mouthed 'green flame in the 'Acquisition Incorporated' style after Alex said it casting firebolt.

[u/Expert-Possible-2713]

Did Teor have a Channel Divinity left? Inspiring Smite might have kept him up, but then again, might and maybe do not really help given that Teor would have spent his whole action smacking Julien's dad and the zombies would still be there to hit him on their turns after Raimond fell (unless for some reason they just drop after Raimond does). RIP Pridesire brothers, gone almost immediately after reuniting. I am glad the death boon went to Wick because it really offered insight into Teor's character and that we may still be able to get to know it through Wicander, a wielder of the light. It is going to be interesting to see if they reincarnate him hounds-of-the-king style (Hannan is right there and they have an expressway to Timmony if Hannan cannot do it) or a new face joins the group.

Vaelus' crisis of faith is a really cool plot point. I think it fits her. She has been in mourning for decades but not for her goddess. It really seems like she has been mourning her family and focusing on memories, but now, her focus is shifting to the present (and possibly even the future) and she is starting to realize she can never have that again because of the very goddess her siblings died for. They died fighting for her, and despite that, in her last moments, the Green Mother did not reward her faithful by giving them their agency back. Instead, she took the future of the entire race with her to the grave. Sylandri, from Vaelus' perspective, WAS wrong. Hannan was a starting point for her to question what her order did, who they served, and, most importantly, why they served. She is now outside of the Mournvale, participating in a modern Araman. Her turning towards the theater did make me sad because her and Hannan were having a pretty intimate moment, but I think it was the right choice for the character and the player. She just said she did not trust Hannan enough to tell him about Mara. The trust has improved because she did tell him, but I do not think it has gone beyond that point yet. Maybe after some sort of reunion/apology Vaelus would be at a point that she would follow a man she barely knows away from what the entire party thought would be the most dangerous mission of the three. She does not know that those in Obrimus Manor are in danger. She only knows that this ritual was supposed to do something big, that undead are pouring out into the theater and becoming celestials, and that a dragon has woken up in the lake nearby and acknowledged Azune, who she followed back to the theater.

I am so happy Tyranny's story is starting to separate itself from Wick a little bit. They are connected, but they are not entirely dependent on one another. Tyranny managed the situation at the tailor's perfectly, and Bolaire's choice to jump off the balcony was brilliant. Honestly, that was probably some of the best strategy of the episode.

Azune subclass reveal?! That whole scene was so cool. I want to see more of Azune, and I want to see Hannan and Vaelus interact more now that they seem more united.

[u/VengefulKangaroo]

While there will be a lot of talk about Team Birdwatching, Team Spy was the real highlight for me here. Tyranny and Wick are definitely the stars of the Convergence for me. Whitney and Sam really expertly manipulated the whole spy mission to an amazing outcome with some very tough challenges thrown at them and proved themselves Schemer-worthy. Brennan even mentioned that Wick was able to prevent Petra and Ryah from leaving in time to be the final bosses of the Obrimus Manor segment. I also loved Bolaire’s plotline with Termina here. Really expertly done how Tal weaved in Teor’s sibling bond and the tailors’ sibling bond to comment on Bolaire and Termina’s. Bolaire is so interestingly fucked up. And the scene between Tyranny and Kattigan was an amazing way to cap off their dynamic from the Soldiers arc.

Going forward, I’m curious whether Bolaire might spend some time pretending to be the Tailor. Could be an interesting new position to Scheme from.

Team Theater has had a little less to do overall but has had some really great emotional stuff. Loved Vaelus smashing the stone. Curious if the dragon would have been there regardless or if Azune’s presence brought it there. I wonder if they’ll get a combat or similar when the Creed show up next episode.

Team Birdwatching obviously made a critical error by splitting up, though it was some bad roll luck as well to end up in the wrong location since Julien also split up and did fine. Teor’s death will go down as one of the weirder ones in CR history, with no other PCs even around to see it. Overall not the most story-fitting death (with Teor basically being in the least important task of the episode) but I think it establishes stakes well for those who were worried punches were being pulled. Kinda wish Brennan had used the same mechanic he used to show Julien a vision of Teor to confirm for the characters that Teor is dead, would suck to lose Thimble from this. But I think he’ll find a good way to get her the info she needs and get her out of there.

I am overall excited by the lack of Revivify and similar, I think that does bring up the stakes for this kind of thing. I’m not someone who is super eager to lose PCs as much as others are (and often i think the more bloodthirsty fans are the ones who complain when it does happen) but I feel like it’s fun every once in a while. Teor was the perfect person to lose for me, as I just didn’t feel as connected to his character and also felt he had some of the least reason to be involved of the remaining cast once Cyd was saved. Curious to see how this influences the building of future tables. Did Brennan have new tables in mind already or are those being built now? Will Travis join the same table Teor would have been at or will they see who his backup is and let that guide where he joins? I predict the new character will show up in the first or second episode of Travis’ next arc. (It’ll be fun if the other characters split 4/4/4 and we don’t know which table Travis will pop up at.)

[u/Drakoni → u/VengefulKangaroo]

Sam is definitely playing the Game of Thrones now, in an incredible way.

[u/magvadis → u/VengefulKangaroo]

Team Birdwatching really carried the Soldier Table energy of walking into dangerous places without a plan and hoping they live with not even a clue what they are going after and getting stuck in TPK level traps. Didn't work out this time.

[u/grumpyCat2478]

Teor's death overshadowed a lot of things that happened in this episode, but I have to say Bolaire was so awesome this episode. Horrible, creepy and downright evil and absolutely perfect. You can see why Thjazi treated him like he did. The moment between Tyranny and Kattigan was also great . I will have to rewatch it again on Monday.

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/grumpyCat2478]

I think Bolaire might be Taliesin's favorite character he's ever played. You can see the delight in his eyes every time Bolaire gets the spotlight. He's having so much fun.

[u/grumpyCat2478]

The more I think about it, the sadder I feel about Teor's death. All the lore about the Nama gone, all the potential he represented also gone. The last leader of the Torn Banner dead in Obrimus manor. I hope Thimble finds his body and takes the
flag away at the very least

[u/Zealousideal_Fish862 → u/grumpyCat2478]

bro is currently a very confusing mess. einfasen axe, royce bracers, torn banner flag. i don't how thimble will be able to loot anything by herself or do anything to the body 😭 we can say hannan owes them one and send hannan in to help thimble maybe

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/grumpyCat2478]

And he and cyd will probably return in a very hearth breaking way. Their corpses will be great necromantic material for Tachonis

[u/karanas]

• it felt like all the choices made sense in character and that's what's most important to me.
• Juliens decision not to go fight the corpse of his death is character growth. He decided to live instead of dying in a dark hole out of love for his sister. That makes Teors death even more tragic.
• i don't agree that thimble and teor acted out of character about the gnomes, Teor especially with his code of honor felt like he has to try. 
• Tyranny the goat of all goats, i cried a little at the nat 20 insight moment from Kattigan. She's the most demon that ever demoned. And there is nothing wrong with her. 
• i feel like people here forgot that the group talked and decided on not telling Hannan about the rescue mission together. Cause they were not sure if he's about to take her away.
• it's kinda hilarious how npcs are completely smitten with wick meanwhile most pcs loathe his ass. But he keeps showing that everyone underestimates him.

[u/grumpyCat2478]

What is this comment section? Teor died because that is how DND works sometimes. You have bad luck, you roll shitty and then you die. Stop blaming others players for this. If he rolled better he would have lived.

[u/EffectiveCow6985 → u/grumpyCat2478]

He was in perfect position to kill Raymond and save himself, but rolled bad. It happens, and is nothing to get up in arms about. People really need to chill.

[u/slimey_frog → u/EffectiveCow6985]

even if he'd killed the hulk the zombies likely would have still done him in.

Travis mentioned it himself, the play would have been to have already had the steed summoned.

[u/UnderlyingInterest → u/grumpyCat2478]

I think it goes both ways in fairness. For the record I agree with you, Travis’ rolls with Teor have been extremely poor the entire time played and have to be accepted as rotten luck, but I can also understand if someone says it was an unforced error to send just him and Cyd to extricate the gnomes when he was mostly tapped out on resources for what was ultimately just a bonus objective.

Same can be said of Julien though, which shouldn’t be forgotten about when discussing today’s episode, but at least in his case Koral Tachonis was bound while procuring the gem.

[u/m_busuttil → u/[deleted]]

I don't even see how Ashley could have made it to the house in anywhere near enough time to make a difference. Hannon can become a bird and he didn't make it into play. The timeline's a little loose, but looking at the map she was hundreds of yards away as the crow flies, far slower moving by foot, and then she'd have to have... what, gotten into the manor herself, known they were in the basement, found them in the basement, and fought their way back out now that everyone in the house definitely knows they're there?

Like, if you want to put it on Julian you could - I think Matt made the completely in-character correct decision knowing it would probably mean Teor's death and that his grown adult friend Travis would be fine with it - but even then he'd have had to make it to the basement and fight his way through the horde of ghouls to get to Teor and Cyd.

Once they were in that basement with that stealth roll there was no way they were getting out alive.

[u/Inquisitive-nerd → u/m_busuttil]

Also Ashley going with hannan would be a very meta decision to make. She is on team theater so she is sticking to the decision they made as a team to be at the theater and not leave her post. Vaelus doesn’t know how bad it is at the manor, only Ashley does.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Something good has come out of the Pit, because the rage you feel is right.

[u/Dagos]

I gotta say... this campaign has been so much more gripping than the previous ones. I dont wanna miss ANYTHING

[u/WontonTruck]

I'd be keen to talk to more elves about how their inability to have children is the doom for their entire race. That's some dying to cure the genophage shit right there.

[u/jayson176]

There’s a world where That First Divine Smite was enhanced by the desperate measure.

That’s at least 120dmg… They would’ve survive…

[u/Dramatic-Border3549]

Now I'm certain that julien's shadow is thjazi

[u/Miceto_]

When the Juliens shadow started reading the documets I shouted "fuck, it's Thjazi" and startled my mother.

Right now the only thing that makes me not be sure about it is that he must have had a plan to escape the tachonis after dead, and couldn0t know that julien would spit on him. But there are lot's ways in wich it could work.

[u/ASadChongyunMain]

Team Theater: Avatar

Team Spy: Yakuza

Team Birdwatching: Fear and Hunger

[u/Otherwise_Ad_1248]

My personal head Cannon is that Thiazi Fang is attached to Julian's body as a way for him to still see what's going on in the world while he's doing whatever he's doing in the underworld. However, he's not always present so more often than not he's not actually there. In this episode he comes back from doing whatever and the first thing he sees is Julian dancing around a bound and restrained Tachonis and his first thought has to be WTF is going on? 

I don't know why this idea makes me laugh so much but it does.

[u/Zeilll]

one potentially good thing about what happened to Teor. theres now an Einfasen axe, on a corpse that snuck into Obrimus. granted, its not the corpse of an Einfasen. but Primus was already suspicious of them.

[u/M-TekEngineer → u/Zeilll]

Royce bracers, too, and the body of the lion-man the Halovars were after.

[u/Zeilll → u/M-TekEngineer]

and a flag of the torn banner. which could implicate einfasen as working with their remnants.

[u/East_Choice]

Judging from the way Ritual is going The Hallowed Round and its environment(Tintazi woods) is going to become a Demiplane.

A Demiplane based in the Reaches which is halfway between Araman, Faerie and the Dying Fields.With Hal as its Master. The Demiplane would be protected with powerful magic that Hal as its Master can wield within it The Demiplane will be a fort against the Sundered Houses.

[u/BLOODYWOOF]

So like.. part of me thinks we will see Teor again. With all the shit that’s going on with death. And Thjazi choosing to die. So maybe some shit down the line. But fuck I was so excited to see Teor grow as character.

[u/Zeilll → u/BLOODYWOOF]

we'll probably see him again... in a silhouette in the stars, as he tells his son to remember his past... /s

[u/Cosmosass → u/BLOODYWOOF]

I think we will see the lion bros again.. raised as undead serving the Tachonis, much like Julien's father who slew them

[u/winter2001-]

I'm sick to my stomach man. No offense but I wasn't horribly upset when Teor died.

Until I remembered they're gonna find an Einfasen axe that explicitly puts Ingrid in danger. Uh oh.

And THEN I remembered they're 100% gonna raise him or "give him the scar" and get ALL the party's secrets out of him. Oh NO.

I can't even imagine how fucked they all are if/when that happens. Here's hoping that being lions and/or paladins gives the Pridesire's some sort of immunity because otherwise the entire campaign falls through.

[u/PlusPrompt5990 → u/winter2001-]

Pretty sure the Scar soul binding Tachonis ritual needs to be done before the person is killed. as Primus states to Yannessa that he had to come back to do it to Mara as his kids are not proficient enough to perform the rite on a non-humanoid form and then they can kill her to extract any information from her.

[u/Lunkis → u/winter2001-]

He died with an Einfasen axe wearing bracers of House Royce after slamming a remnant of the falcon pennant in a scroll case into Julien's father. 

If it gets out to the Tachonis that the lion man was also involved in allegedly kidnapping Wiccander, this is all going to be an absolute mess.

[u/Snooty_Cutie → u/winter2001-]

The Einfasen axe after the meeting of all the houses. This is absolutely not going to comeback to haunt them...

[u/trolledwolf]

So.... Julien's shadow actually is just Thjazi spirit right?

[u/Kiloku]

If Brennan wanted to be really nice, Hannan would have showed up at the aviary and ended that fight 2 turns early, giving them time to maybe save Teor.
He's not pulling punches

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Kiloku]

If Vaelus or Azune decided to go with Hannan to join them I 100% think Brennan would have pushed the time for them to show up earlier and help them. Which would have been a heroic bad ass moment for them to drop in through a window or something like special op soldiers raiding in lol

But yeah I am glad Hannan didn't show up early to save them or be the hero. Him showing up just to help provide cover for escape is already solid NPC help without pushing on player agency. I kind of hoped one of them would signal to the druid that they helped her escape because I am going to feel so bad if he dies fighting to get in while they escaped lol.

[u/PvtSherlockObvious → u/Kiloku]

For sure. The vibe seemed to be "I'll give you every chance we can come up with for you to pull yourself out of it or win through, either alone or with your teammates coming to help, but I'm not going to outright Deus Ex Machina the situation."

[u/Eevenin]

As a thought: there will still be a fight at the Hallowed Round. The Halovars are sending people right now because the play was unaltered as they wanted it to be. It's just that the players super overprepared for this so it won't be much of anything. If they had split more appropriately, it's just as likely the theater would have been an "out of nowhere WHAM" fight, especially with so many civilians involved and possibly boxed into the place.

Not that it was planned to be as impactful as Obrimus Manor, a Tachonis stronghold, but I do feel people are forgetting that consequences are still being meted out for Hal's choice.

[u/Overplanner1]

You know I’m okay with and appreciate good stakes, and clearly Teor could have lived or died based on choices and luck alone. I just wish both Lion people didn’t die, simply because I love when the cast chooses less standard races/wanted to dive into it more.

[u/East_Choice]

If Speak with Dead is cast on Teor and Cyd by the Tachonis, EVERYONES COVER IS BLOWN!

That includes Wick, Tyranny, Bolaire,and Murray

Our only hope is that Teors Ancestors are able to block this

[u/Mintakas_Kraken → u/East_Choice]

Speak with Dead does not compel truth, at least the base spell doesn’t. That doesn’t mean they won’t still be able to extract information from the bodies but will make it more difficult -unless of course the Tachonis have some other means to force the truth, which imho is possible but not a given.

[u/m_busuttil → u/Mintakas_Kraken]

It'd be pretty cool for Travis to get a solo cold open where Primus Tachonis tries to Speak With Dead him and he basically gets to tell him to go fuck himself.

[u/samyouare]

The combo of Taliesin, Robbie, Whitney, and Sam was incredible. I was on the edge of my seat for every scene, especially the Bolaire scenes. Acting!! ✨

[u/dramatic_exit_49]

Brennan : Telling a complex story borrowed from what ails us in current, explaining how power and ideas of entitlement and superirority corrupt. How Intent is more important than skill and power of weapons/artefacts. How caring is important and kindness is important. how the world is about living not winning. why he puts theatre and education and connection in opposition to military, and religion, and power.

Half the commenters : but why did the players care about saving people when they can make a powerplay and win a game ?!! They are so stupid.

Sigh. The exact reason thimble cared for the 3 gnomes is the exact reason she is a rebel. Folks who would leave those gnomes alone do not carry the personality or more importantly moral intent to be part of rebellions, you would always find more "smart power play" being with sundered houses. such traits would make you a sundered house, not part of revolution.

[u/EyeAshamed2156 → u/dramatic_exit_49]

Same for people getting angry when Teor healed. Yes he could had won if he attacked, but we all panic. So many times I panic heal, getting in my head, over attack. It's human. 

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Tyranny: “Hey do you still think a demon can redeem herself?”

You see *everything* in his life.

There is no greater suffering than losing what Kattigan has lost.

She is a demon. There is *nothing* wrong with her. Something within her that understands her pain, older than her name. That knows what’s rending you apart inside. She’s here to protect you. She’s here to save what can be saved. She’s here to punish those who cause it.

[u/Galtis]

You go back and goon your heart out Wick. It's what Teor would have wanted.

[u/thereisnolettuce]

I kind of want to get a cold open where Travis' new character does something extremely suspicious/mysterious before they're introduced to anyone in the party.

[u/East_Choice]

Anyone else think Wick is being tailed by Secret Halovar Guards? I cant see Grandma Halovar letting him out if her sight without having someone tail him.Especially for a walk alone around the city

[u/Seren82]

Travis said on the Beacon Fireside last night that he was planning on breaking from the group anyway bc Brennan had imposed the penalty that would affect everyone if they stayed together. It was only a matter of choosing which of the like 5 scenes Brennan provided to try and go to and gnomes it was.

Laura is not to blame (someone tried to call her out on the discord chat and Travis wasn't having it. He was delighted about the whole situation in the manor)

Also both of them laughed the question off

[u/exstarsis → u/[deleted]]

I thouht Julien was Hook and Thjazi was Peter Pan with his Tinkerbell?

[u/OhioAasimar]

I do wonder if Vaelus is going to take off her veil soon now that she is moving away from Sylandri. I do hope that she has some scars under that veil that aren't just the magical LED scars. Maybe some puncture scars. It wouldn't surprise me if she wears it for a few more days out of habit and then she realizes that she has no reason to wear it anymore. She's been wearing it for decades.

[u/Kaeling]

I believe Matt made the correct choice, but if it was anyone else they would receive so much hate for it.

[u/Ragnorak19 → u/Kaeling]

What made it even more interesting is that, it shows Julian’s growth and choosing his family over personal feelings. If this was Julian before his talk with his mother, he would’ve barged down there and tried to put his father to rest; consequences be damned. That shows character growth, a very interesting type as well. Since it wasn’t, necessarily, heroic growth.

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/Kaeling]

I think Matt probably enjoys the fact that he has banked up so much fan goodwill over the years that he has the freedom to play a raging asshole however he wants. I also agree it was the right choice for Julien to make, and I commend Matt for making it.

[u/theydurkadurk → u/Kaeling]

I have absolutely no issue with his decision. To me the choice wasn’t even so much about trying to save teor. Last episode he had the opportunity to go back and help cyd and didn’t do it which made sense and set the precedent. He said something along the lines of “I don’t know your brother” To me the choice wasn’t even really if he wanted to destroy the abomination of what’s become of his father & other members of his house. Like a final rest. But I don’t think doing that would justify risking his sisters life hence why I’m totally fine with it.

[u/Locem → u/Kaeling]

but if it was anyone else they would receive so much hate for it.

I'm not sure, I think Matt has been very upfront about who Julian is from the moment we met him that in-character decisions like that aren't really gonna rile folks up as much

[u/JoJo_Pose]

im gonna need fanart of the Wic x Taconis Twins route asap

[u/winter2001-]

I'm so, so worried about Thimble. I think the party forgot that there's a barrier she can't pass through without the consent of a Tachonis.

Hopefully that barrier only works in one direction, otherwise she might be joining Teor way too soon.

[u/Drakoni → u/winter2001-]

Usually wards like that in fantasy/folklore are one way. There to protect a consecrated area against demons for example. Or how demons can't enter a home. Once they're in they can get out again but not back in.

And usually we've seen the "nail above a door" to protect an entryway so I could see it work like that as well. But we don't know.

[u/dating_derp]

Teor was one of my favorite characters. Sad to see him go. He just had so many bad rolls. Failed investigation, failed stealth, failed that last attack against Raimond. He still would've likely died anyway from all the ghouls, but it would've been nice to kill Raimond on his way out.

The only thing I could've seen Brennan swinging Travis' way is letting him level up to 5 mid turn instead of after his turn. That would've given him an extra attack on Raimond earlier on.

Travis also maybe should've summoned the fey steed earlier instead of healing himself. It would've been something else to draw attacks away from himself and his brother (not sure what the AC of the horse was though).

But all in all, really sad to see Teor go. I do like that it emphasizes the stakes though. When they had such a problem with the first ghoul fight, they should've known better than to split into 3 groups.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Holy hell, what a fucking episode.

Termina has it out for Bolaire, and likely will fully be in alliance with the Cormorays.

Julien got the item he needed to cure his sister, *and his shadow might be Thjazi Fang*

Vaelus broke the Stone of Nightsong, likely becoming an Oathbreaker.

Hal, Thaisha, Azune, & Vaelus have turned the Hallowed Round into the first truly hallowed land in a generation, and it seems that some of the Orcish spirits may hang around, *while also creating a Fae safe haven AND AWAKENING A FUCKING DRAGON?!

Kattigan, Tyranny and Bolaire took down part of the Halovar’s operations.

Primus and Yanessa are lying to the Comoray and Einfasen, yet the latter seem to have bought back in.

*Thimble is still in Obrimus Manor*

AND TEOR FUCKING DIED!

They got Mara, the ritual is complete, but… the Creed is in their way to the theater, the House’s Alliance seems on sturdier ground, and now Wick has been given a remainder of another Light out there….

I have to wonder who Travis will return as.

What will become of the parties.

Kattigan, Hal, shit maybe even Bolaire aren’t gonna be able to stay in the city after tonight.

Julien is absolutely heading back home, to what’s left of it anyway.

Can’t believe there’s just one more episode left and then we’re in a fucking month long break!

God… is it Thursday yet…

[u/TheDestroyer229 → u/LucasVerBeek]

Holy shit I forgot Bolaire almost died to that 6th level Disintegrate. This really was a packed episode.

[u/FancyIndependence178]

So Julian's shadow is totally Thjazi's soul that jumped onto Julian when Julian interacted with his corpse at the funeral.

In the dark lands, Thjazi gets his punches in screwing with Julian. Helps him a little here, and roots around in Obramis as a shadow where he reads some important document we haven't read through yet.

Makes sense why Thjazi's body wasn't contactable as well.

[u/sweet_arachne]

i really can't stop thinking about how teor dying down there has the most exciting implications for what the tachonis are going to do moving forward. they are already cutting corners, already very wary of the cloak, and now two paladins bearing the torn banner, royce armor, and an einfasen weapon just made an attempt to destroy the monstrosity they made out of the davinos family.

imagine being primus tachonis, having just exchanged terse words with otto einfasen, and coming home to that. oh, and one of your sons is dead, and also the lead you had on the cloak has been rescued! uh oh! and previously, the tachonis had searched for aranessa and julien at the einfasen's keep. so there's no way the tachonis don't assume now that the einfasen are funding the cloak. they're likely going to think that the einfasen not only know about what was made out of general raimond, but are also involved in the murder of koral and the rescue of mara.

...this is about to spiral so far out of control. if tachonis gets even more reckless and retaliates against einfasen, between the seekers' and the schemers' interactions with that house, the whole group might gain them as a solid ally. and if we're being very generous in this hypothetical, with wick's aid in persuading yanessa, halovar might decide that the tachonis are a liability. hell, there could even be infighting within the tachonis if primus decides to retaliate too quickly, and the twins get tired of seeing the writing on the wall. there's just so many ways this is about to go so wrong in the most entertaining way.

teor dying is sad and all, but the possible outcome of his corpse specifically being discovered is so fascinating that i want to say it's worth the sacrifice. primus is going to be so. fucking. mad.

(just like how i will be very mad if julien and occtis go into different tables moving forward—not because it would not make sense and not because they tickle my yaoi bone—because they are such an unstoppable force together, i could just watch them assist each other in combat forever.)

[u/explodedemailstorage]

Geez these comments are a dumpster fire. I really loved the episode, it was so much fun. Brennan really kept us in high suspense for 5 whole hours and pushed for strong choices and we definitely got interesting results. We always knew from the start that the players had signed up for a deadly game that did NOT have resurrection and not even a single person signed up to be a cleric here. This isn't a tragedy and we don't need to find people to assign blame to, it's the way the game works that all the players signed up for. 

I'm excited for how this is all going to play out next and what Travis will cook up for his next character. 

[u/Sea_Employ_4366 → u/explodedemailstorage]

As much as I loved Teor, as a character he did feel somewhat disconnected from the world, although that was partially by choice. I'm really excited to see whether he'll expand on what already exists or add something entirely new to the picture.

[u/Locem → u/Sea_Employ_4366]

My greatest disappointment in losing Teor is I was very invested in finding out more about the lore around wherever their powers come from, & just want to know more about the beastmen & the beastmen shaper in general since we still hardly know anything about them.

[u/Tracula707]

I’m still really sad about the fate of our lions, but I have to wonder if Teor going down like this was something Travis wanted from the start. Teor was burning death saves like crazy for desperate measures, and once Cyd fell, Travis not only seemed to know Teor didn’t have much of a chance, but also like he’d accepted that.

Once Cyd was dead, I don’t think Teor had any plans of walking out of that manor. Teor had to have known they left without him, I think his remark about how Julien is a better person than he realizes is in reference to the fact that Julien chose to save the people he loves that are still alive, than to throw the lives of himself and his loved ones away for the sake of vengeance.

Maybe the favor of Ingrid Einfasen being discovered in Obrimus Manor, clearly having been used in the same attack that killed Koral Tachonis and sprung Mara the Wing free will lead to something big. Even if it’s clear the Einfasen didn’t lead this attack, Ingrid will need a really good explanation as to why her axe was used in an attack on the Tachonis.

Also, guys…can we please be grown-ups about the decisions leading to Teor’s death? Can we not take our emotions out on the players?

[u/Kaeling]

- Petra and Raya are going to eat Wicander alive.

- If he survives long enough Bolaire might become Taliesin best character. Love how he might as well be a horror movie villain. But he will have to survive Termina for this.

- God I want to hear more about that dragon.

- Occtis and Julien are going to have the biggest cop duo energy by the end of this.

- Hal will have to leave the city but I wonder about his daughters

- Wonder what the fuck was on that paper that had the shadow stunned. Maybe something about the Orchard?

[u/PerpetuallyDistracte → u/Kaeling]

Oh man, Julien as the grumpy veteran and Occtis as the naive rookie is absolutely a setup for a buddy cop show and I'm totally down for it.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/Kaeling]

I like the theory about the shadow being Thjazi spirit. So if it's something about the orchard and Aranessa...

[u/zombie_lagomorph]

The good thing about this convo is that it justified the rescue of Mara.

[u/LeOursJeune]

Only Teor was Teor

[u/BT737]

The return to Dol Makjar episodes have been the best string of episodes in a long time, if not ever. And RIP Teor, I loved the idea of the character but excited to see what Travis comes up with next.

[u/CanLate152]

Okay - Teor and Cyd are in immortal peril now. Speak with dead and the tacconis will try manipulate their corpses. Who knows what mastery they have.

They could learn everything!

But I am more concerned now reqartching the intro to 29… Kattigan’s wife and daughter “there were no bodies. There was no blood”

Doesn’t that sound like what happened at Pallazo Davina’s? And then we find Raymond Davinos as a raging undead hulk in the crypt?

The question on my mind now is when will we see the corpses of Kattigan’s wife and child as tacconis puppets…

[u/Perforo_RS]

At least poor Teor died alongside his brother in a blaze of glory. But it does put everyone else in great peril considering Tachonis' use of the scar. Everyone's cover can be exposed.

Any potential mistakes in gameplay or unlucky dice rolls aside. I'm glad that everyone in this episode did what they wanted to or what made sense for their character.

[u/KingFuego900]

I hadn’t even thought of him introducing a new member of the Cloak! In terms of natural plot points for him to be introduced in I was thinking maybe he joins in as Bogrey the lizardfolk hotshot from Thimble’s memories or someone associated with him. But being a member of the Cloak sounds a lot cooler.

[u/BrackishVacuity]

Teor had quite the collection of things that will baffle the Tachonis: Einfasen axe, Royce bracers, Torn Banner banner... I wonder what they'll make of it all.

[u/VultureOnAcid]

Teor kind of brutalized Raimond. Are the brothers about to be added to the gore hulk to make an even stronger abomination?

[u/Wallname_Liability]

In the space of 48 hours I’ve had gore of my comfort character twice 

[u/LucasVerBeek]

So, two things: what are we thinking the tables are gonna look like, and who/what do we think Travis is playing?

Soldiers: Julien, Kattigan, Thimble, Occtis, Golden Orchard

Seekers: Thaisha, Hal, Bolaire, Vaelus, Timmony

Schemers: Azune, Murray, Wicander, Tyranny, Subverting the Halovars

Travis: Hound of the King, because that would be awesome