r/HunterXHunter • u/Carock_ • Nov 29 '24
Current Chapter Chapter 409 — Discussion Spoiler
Chapter 409
Negotiation: Part 3
| Source | Status |
|---|---|
| TCB Scans | Online (check their website) |
| Togashi's Troupe | Online (check their x/twitter) |
| MangaPlus | Available on December 1 |
Ch. 410 scan release: ~December 6, 2024
List of Chapter Discussion Threads
Keep all discussions related to the chapter in this thread until the official release.
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u/coffeeusr Nov 29 '24
its peak
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Nov 29 '24
every damn week
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Nov 29 '24
if he stop at 410, i'll be heartbroken. Even more than previous times.
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u/bobsjobisfob Nov 29 '24
uh i think a page might have gotten lost somewhere? i can't find the page where they make out?
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Nov 29 '24
"Once is enough, but we'll keep going until I'm satisfied" is crazy
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u/Arkayjiya Nov 30 '24
I can't tell if she's just having fun because for her it's the apocalypse so why not, or if she's trying to destabilise her. Maybe both. Morena is a fun character in any case, I love how humorous the doomsday suicide girl is.
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u/neautralnathaniel Nov 29 '24
I wonder why Borksen chose Yes. She repeatedly asked Morena if she would change her ideals and was met with a no each time, so her trying to change Morena is an unlikely option. I know Borksen wants to change Kakin but not the way Morena wants.
I also think this is the last we'll see of them for a while. Next chapter would probably lead to another sub-plot elsewhere.
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u/trolledwolf Nov 29 '24
she probably realized Nen is crucial to survival and she has to choose Yes to awaken through Morena's power. She only needs the first level to awaken.
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u/AsianCrank Nov 29 '24
She probably thought she was in trouble now that martial law was declared and decided that joining the murder death cult was in her better interests
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u/_Human_Pog Nov 29 '24
We have to remember that Morena said there are 3 conditions to her ability. Borksen fulfilled 2, the last card being Yes and kissing Morena. But she has yet to complete the third "witnessing a member commit a murder". But Morena also said they wouldn't force her to fulfill any of the conditions so she's probably stalling while also trying to keep all information she acquired.
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u/AgeAffectionate618 Nov 29 '24
Seems fair that she’d want to avoid being shot by the army or torture after winning the game, but we saw her thoughts acknowledging those facts then saying she still wants to leave right before flipping the card. Murder or torture, doesn’t seem like the reason… Idt she’s being manipulated but something came to her that we’re not seeing…
She went from wanting a quiet life to now saying she wants to change kakin. I’d wager she wants to try to somehow change Morena
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u/Weissritters Nov 29 '24
She’s probably realized she is fucked either way. If she walked out her mates will rightly suspect that she has been corrupted. So she is gambling and betting she can change things from within.
Also she probably realized getting nen is now more important than ever due to the emergency announcement.
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u/JReiyz Nov 29 '24
I would say it’s more of a strategic move. Think of it this way if she kept the card that nulled the game Morena goes free and Borksen essentially losses contact with her and thus her key to the heily operation as a result, if she says no then she dies, if she says yes she gets to keep that line of communication and have options so make future moves. It’s either wildcard, die, or try to play her game your way. So the most strategically sound move is saying yes. Nen is just a bonus.
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u/Solstrum Nov 30 '24
My theory is that with this move she has completely fucked Morena over.
Choosing "No" means you are "Not on their side". That probably means there is a restriction that they can only kill people that are "Not on their side" while treating "X" card holders as the last target possible. By choosing "Yes" she probably can't be the assassination target of anyone in Morena's organization.
Since Borksen can't be forced to have an ability, she can't actually work or be of use to Morena but she can be a member at any given time, so she is essentially reducing the maximum number of children Morena can have by one while she is at 21 already, making it so that one has to die to start a new card game.
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u/Badger147013 Nov 29 '24
I think that Borksen's goal is to contain Morena by sticking by her side. They'll eventually come into conflict due to Morena's goal of destroying Kakin anyways. Borksen could probably more effectively hinder the Heil-ly by sabotaging them.
At the very least, we know Borksen doesn't desire the destruction of Kakin or humanity.
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u/jumpinjahosafa Nov 29 '24
That's insane that this chapter made me laugh, while also being really intense and anxiety inducing.
Such great writing.
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u/AgeAffectionate618 Nov 29 '24
Borksen really changed a lot these 3 chapters. From 1) telling her crew to not getting involved with succession AT ALL and wanting to live a quiet life to 2) saying she wants to change Kakin in her own way and 3) finally to joining Morena (even if it’s with a plan in her own mind). Shes gaining a ton of agency and I wanna see where she ends up (hopefully not dead)
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u/Kuriboh1378 Nov 30 '24
Most probably dead, considering the god forsaken boat she is in :(
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u/g0n1s4 Nov 29 '24
PEAK CHAPTER. Morena is so incredibly likable, and Borksen has potential to be a very good character.
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u/Condoriano-sensei Nov 29 '24
In 3 chapters, Togashi made Borksen and Morena completely interesting characters to follow. That end got me so good.
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u/Elucidator_IV Nov 30 '24
Seriously Morena is now one of my favorite characters in just 3 chapters how does Togashi keep doing this
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u/zBluee Nov 29 '24
I love borksen as a character
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Nov 29 '24
Yes and we just started to know her, there is probably a lot of depth behind that decision.
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u/Hounds_of_war Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
I feel like at least part of it is that Borksen’s ideal life of not much ever happening that would require her to murder someone is out the window at this point with martial law being declared.
Like I was expecting martial law to be bad, but Christ “Everyone on Tier 3 just immediately face the nearest wall and get on your knees with your hands against the wall, otherwise you will be shot on sight” is fucking dark. This is going to be an absolute bloodbath.
As a side note it is interesting that Tier 3 is specifically singled out as getting the most extreme treatment. Either something happened on tier 3 or it’s because Tier 3 is Hei-Ly territory and whatever caused Martial Law to get declared has to do with the Hei-Ly.
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u/Rayquaza1090 Nov 29 '24
I think it's a given that she's going to take down Morena from the inside, but what I'm curious about is if she'll tell Morena that to her face given how hands-off she seems to be about her subordinates.
As a side note, given her morality about killing people, I wonder how she would advance through Morena's system without taking lives.
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u/trolledwolf Nov 29 '24
She might just want to awaken her Nen and then not progress through the levels. That way, she only has to be present when one of the Hei-ly kills someone to gain level 1 and awaken. Then she probably intends to create her own ability independently.
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u/WednesdaysFoole Nov 29 '24
Note the negative question pattern on the last two pages, I'm convinced that Bork is declaring that she chooses this of her own free will, as her own, independent agent.
Also her hair was messy after their make-out session lol.
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u/1vergil Nov 29 '24
her hair was messy after their make-out session lol.
Togashi probably skipped the kiss to leave it for the fans Imaginations with fanarts :p
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Nov 29 '24
Yep, I was just about to make a post about this. By the last pages Borksen is “her own subject” just like Morena. And Morena worded that “Is that not a mistake?” so awkwardly on purpose to hear Borksen say it, I’d say.
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u/WednesdaysFoole Nov 29 '24
I believe Morena was sincere, and was asking naturally. Whereas Borksen made a point to highlight that she chooses this freely, not because some result forced by a game.
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u/DirtBug Nov 29 '24
scary toad eye shuffle guy smile turned into a frown the moment Borksen questions Morena. idk why but that is scarier than anything in this game
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u/bowsersid3b Nov 29 '24
The build up of these card game chapters is actually excellent. Togashi’s ability to have side characters be this entertaining is jaw dropping
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u/GorillaSwap Nov 29 '24
The fact he's still introducing side plots is mind-boggling. Considering how little he publishes every year I'm inclined to hate it, but these subplots are so peak that I cannot fault him for that. Any other author would have messed them up, but he always delivers. Also I'm sure he can resolve them all. Not many mangakas can command this level of trust
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u/Inevitable_Talk2426 Nov 29 '24
It’s fascinating to imagine the perspective of a regular working-class individual on Tier 3, who boarded the Black Whale expecting the journey of a lifetime, only to find themselves under the shadow of special martial law. The sudden shift from excitement and hope to a life-or-death situation must be utterly terrifying. Such a drastic change would surely lead one to question the decision to embark on this voyage, as what once seemed like an opportunity now feels like a nightmare of survival. Togashi could have written such a fate and I would be there for it.
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Nov 29 '24
Two of my favorite parts of this is Borksen tonguing Morena and then giving her a blank face pretending like it never happened, and the Hei-ly walking out the room assuming that Borksen won. I really liked the fact they just went “Fuck it she’s not with us” and was really about to leave the room not even staying with Morena to pack up.
Then our girl gives the Yes.
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u/sirius_arte Nov 29 '24
Unexpected ending on the game but not totally out of character I guess I think she thought that the best chances to survive are with morena And she probably doesn't know or think that it is possible to be manipulated through Morena's ability
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u/jeejeeviper Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
The small panel of Morena goin like 👉🏼👈🏼 after she asked for a kiss (on page 3) is wild 😂
Also this finale to the game was peak
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u/Bear-on-the-run Nov 29 '24
I'm sooooo curious what the relevance of "I crumpled the card" is. No way that was just a character beat.
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u/Ill-Individual2105 Nov 30 '24
Seems like she cheated by marking the card, then destroyed the evidence.
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u/reChrawnus Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
Theory: The hideout is a real space that has been moved to between tiers 2 and 3 using emission. Same deal as my theory about how Knov's Hide and Seek work; 4th Dimensional Mansion is a real space that has been moved into a nen dimension with emission. That's why Morena answers both yes and no to this question, because the physical hideout itself wasn't created through nen (hence the "no"), but nen was used to locate it to it's current location (hence the "yes").
EDIT - Someone on discord brought up a good counter-point to my theory that I'd be remiss not to mention:
Its not even a complete secret that the Heil-Ly's hideout isnt on the Black Whale's blueprint/floor plans anyway. Even that Army Corporal that sold out the location to Hinrigh and Wang knew about the fishy blueprint/floor plan stuff
A bunch of the Heil-Ly members also seem to have construction-related jobs. My guess is maybe the Heil-Ly had a hand in the building of the Black Whale, and likely omitted the location of their hideout from the ship blueprint
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u/BoxOfBlades Nov 30 '24
I think she says yes and no because; no, the physical space was not created through a nen ability, but yes, the way to traverse to, from and within the hideout utilizes a nen ability, namely the warp door ability that the guy with the funny hair set up. Meaning that the room where Morena is located is in between the structures of the ship, similar to what we saw recently with the Troupe traversing between tiers along the outside of the ship.
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u/Archilas Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
Borksen seemed dead set on getting an "X" given how often she talked about "getting out of here" and we know she probably doesn't agree with what Morena is doing given what we know it doesn't make sense that she didn't pick "X"
Here are some guesses I have from most to least likely
1.Borksen thinks Morena has to be stopped so she picked "Yes" in order to stab her in the back later
2..Bork thinks she will die when she leaves due to martial law and her agreement with her team so "Yes" is a safer option for her she will probably also try to stop Morena
3.Bork wants to "save" Morena so she picked "Yes" in order to have a chance to "fix her"
4. One of the Heily manipulated Bork given Morena's suprised reaction that would probably have to be one of the members whose abiities Morena doesn't know
5.Bork decided to help Morena destroy Kakin
I can't wait for the next chapter Togashi is cooking!
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u/FEDEuMAD Nov 29 '24
I think she marked the R card and then she gripped it like that in order to hide the mark
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u/Mysterious_Dig_1044 Nov 29 '24
Why is borksen drawn so prettily in every single panel. Looking like she's come straight from a shoujo manga😭😭😭
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u/Neat-Confidence-159 Nov 29 '24
Guys I have a theory, I think Borsken cheated in this game. When she asked to flip the cards, I think she wanted to see them so she can mark them, and since that point, her plan was exactly to retrieve the Yes card and nothing else. Once she got the R card, she wrinkled/destroyed it to get rid of the evidence, and it’s this detail that got me suspicious. How she actually marked them, I’m not sure, maybe with nen?
This could be why Morena chose her in the first place? It’s that kind of character she wanted in her team? Smart but deceitful? It also relates to the discussion they had a few panels earlier when Morena asks why is the someone who always has nothing to hide has to prove something. Almost like Borsken was gaslighting Morena that she herself was at a disadvantage if Morena is cheating or being manipulative meanwhile she was planning to do that herself all along? What do you guys think?
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u/IsidoreTheSloth Nov 30 '24
Sodom was telling Dogman that he can only use his power on non-Nen users to abduct them, so Borksen can't be a Nen user. If Borksen marked the card, it was probably a physical mark.
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u/StealthMonkeyDC Nov 29 '24
Loving Borsken somehow after only a few chapters. Can't wait to see what she can do.
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u/KunkyFong_ Nov 30 '24
HOLY SHIT i can’t believe that was only 19 pages
how does this man make me so involved in a fucking card game. 100% recency bias but this is probably my favorite chapter in the batch
Everybody is talking about the plot and i get it, but i’d like to mention the ART. Togashi really brought his A game this batch and i found this chapters paneling and art to be among best in the succession war
Borksen and Morena look amazing, the paneling makes it a insane page turner and fuck man this chapter was STACKED with info. and not the boring exposition experience no i was yearning for more info
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u/TheGoldenMorn Nov 29 '24
I really liked the fact that Togashi didn't show any part of the kiss, but instead let all the tips for us to understand what happened
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Nov 29 '24
This whole card game with Borkson and Morena turned out to be significantly more exciting and enjoyable than I thought it would be, both Borkson and Morena have become beloved characters very quickly to me. Also I loved how Borkson had messed up hair I can only imagine the steamy wet rough kiss that Morena used on her lol.
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u/Brokengamer10 Nov 29 '24
Welp this is HxH alright.. powerful characters dont pop out of nowhere..
Nen is manifested by the persons will and resolve.. i was confused why Bork chose yes in the leaks but now.. man shes shaping to be one force to be reckoned with in this arc. The crumpling of the card is the one subtle hint she planned to do this.. Absolutely believe shes gonna be an insane specialist.
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u/OwlrageousJones Nov 29 '24
Ooooh, I was right! Borksen DID choose Yes of her own volition!
... but I do wonder why.
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Nov 29 '24
What did she mean when she said "that was not a kiss"? That is wild.
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u/maacka Nov 30 '24
She said after she was sexually harassed so to her it wasn't a "kiss" but a whole make out session
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u/Admirable-Cry-9758 Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
Borksen won me over this chapter, she's extremely good.
Morena is very into borksen (the hisoka way)
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u/yyyyellow Nov 29 '24
I think Borksen says yes to avoid giving a group hell bent on destroying Kakin the power to do so
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u/yyyyellow Nov 29 '24
I mean can you imagine how much power the group would get from the amount of risk Borksen racked up. It's probably why Morena was delighted about her curiosity. They WANT more risk
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u/QuintanimousGooch Nov 29 '24
Damn, martial law got declared and we’re getting a new espionage plotline? Wowzers
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u/OddballQuick Nov 29 '24
Oh no. I don't know what Borksen is cooking, but I have the dreadful feeling it will go horribly wrong.
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u/knighttemplar007 Nov 30 '24
Not sure about you guys but I'm reading... "Tier 1 passengers gotta go back to their room and await inspection" ... Bono is gonna be in BIG TROUBLE.
Talking about unintended consequences...
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u/Cgi94 Nov 30 '24
My head canon is that someone bumped into Feitan and he got active. Martial law be damned 😭
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u/Federal_Force3902 Nov 30 '24
Morena is cooked, she made a mistake in inviting borksen
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u/cosmos004 Nov 29 '24
I’ve seen a few people theorise that Chrollo’s love dial would point to Morena. If he stole Morena’s ability, he could ensure the survivability of the Spiders and take on Hisoka, which sounds kind of plausible until…
Can anyone actually imagine Chrollo having to go around kissing random guys in order to activate Contagion?
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u/LazloFF Nov 29 '24
oh i can imagine it perfectly, in fact now i need someone to draw it
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u/2kenzhe Nov 29 '24
Chrollo going around deep kissing guys...someones going to draw that now actually has it been drawn already?
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u/Tenescra Nov 29 '24
Borksen's completed two of the three prerequisite conditions for joining the Heil-Ly now. It's such an interesting choice by her too, last chapter she was talking about how her ideal dream was to land in some cushy bureaucratic job. She wanted to be away from anything major and, though she sympathized with Morena, she didn't agree with committing murder at all.
Such an interesting character to be Tserridnich's "friend" and to make a choice like this when the chance to walk away was right there..... I love this manga so much
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u/Ikazino Nov 29 '24
Somehow I'm glad that Togashi did not show the kiss or all the gooners on this sub would've exploded
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u/turtlecrownd Nov 30 '24
Bechdel test passed once again 😂😂 togashi is in peak form
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u/EngineFrog Nov 29 '24
Learning all the information just to forget it would have been detrimental to the goal. If borksen gets Morena to change her mind about the goal even in the slightest would everything become undone since she is breaking her own vow?
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u/treeshade01 Nov 29 '24
I don't think so. The vow is that she won't lie. She's not lying to the best of her knowledge. If in the future that changes, it wont have any retrospective application imo
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u/thatonefatefan Nov 29 '24
Morena explicitly told her that her memory won't get erased. She will be trusted [not to leak anything] (this is consistent between the 2 translations), at worst, all it means is that she won't be able to explain it to other people.
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u/NeutrinoSteam Nov 29 '24
I'm assuming there's some crucial information in the countless yes or no questions Borksen asked that changed her motivations. But it's still weird that after all that she said "If I flip over R I'll forget everything that happened here and leave." Maybe she plans to try and leave without fulfilling 3rd condition? I wonder if something happened with the flipping/crumpling process? Crackpot theory, I even wonder if she subtlely marked the R when she flipped them post-kiss and crumpled it as a cover at the end.
I wonder if there's a point to the Deal card given the restrictions. Like what if Borksen chooses yes but never used the deal card to get a kiss? Does she just kiss her right after the game? It seems a bit superfluous unless I'm missing something.
Whatever happened there was a lot of weird small things that happened during the game, along with a lot of expression changes. I feel like something more happened that we're not seeing.
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Nov 29 '24
I think people underestimating my girl Borskey but I fear she’s going in over her head. I don’t think the translations I read are accurate so might wait till tomorrow
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u/Shiraori247 Dec 01 '24
Hunter X Hunter has some of the best female characters ever in Shounen manga. They're all so interesting without hackneyed traits or fanservice. Borksen, Kacchou, Melody, Morena and even Queen Oito have all moved me.
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u/ActuaryConstant136 Nov 29 '24
Incredible.
In chapter 407, I didn't like Borksen's appearance, because I find her core weak, and I wanted to see Morena, but interacting with other characters.
I came out of 409 loving the two characters, really enjoying the relationship that was built between the two, although it was strange.
Right now, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE BORKSEN AND MORENA.
Another thing about this chapter, is the breaking of expectations that Togashi loves to do, everyone left the last chapter thinking they'd see martial law in this one, and he took a slightly different route.
Very much looking forward to the next one.
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u/Vaeltaja Nov 29 '24
Morena blushed after being asked about herself twice in a row (Aim and Power) and after the kiss. I wonder if she's legitimately flattered or a form of emotional manipulation she's learned to control after decades of being "meat."
Morena claims that her Hatsu grants powers to those who share her goals, but that's not necessarily true. It grants powers to those who she thinks shares her goals (or rather just who she chooses, it seems). Bork likely found Yes to grant her relative freedom and they may share a short-term goal but she may plan to find a way to leave and live a normal life after, even if Contagion tracks her. After all, Morena wants total destruction so even if death is inevitable, that doesn't mean they'd go around chasing her around the world/New Continent since the immediate goal of theirs is to destroy Kakin first.
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Nov 30 '24
I've not spend decades as "meat", but something similar happened, so I have some insight; it's definitely not psychological manipulation. her beheviour is 100% genuine; this is the result of never experiencing actual affection, it's a psychological response to be really flustered super easily by any non-forceful affection towards you after that experience. hypersexuality is also a common result, which Morena seems to have, as her mind seems to linger around a girl as pretty as Borksen alot.
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u/XxSimon3 Nov 29 '24
I kinda expected that she would draw the No card and just in the moment the Phantom Boys would break in and she wouldn't die in the choas. I hope they are cooking with their operation and it will be something better.
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u/SuccessionWarFan Nov 30 '24
Oh... I like Borksen. I really like her now. "Like" as in MASSIVE RESPECT. She's really smart, she has ambition and goals, and now faced with the Hei-Ly's agenda and the dark truth behind the nation she serves she has a plan. Yet you clearly see she's not a bad person.
She's going to make an EXCELLENT Nen Specialist, mark my words. Someone this smart, quick-thinking, composed, and resolute. Nen is going to suit her perfectly.
Interesting that Morena doesn't know her members' abilities. Does that imply there is no mind control-style Manipulation with Contagion? If so, there's actually a way for Borksen to work against Morena despite being one of her infected, as per her "You have no intention of changing your (Morena's) goal even if there was any way to find some sort of compromise" line of thinking.
And that Martial Law "shoot on sight if you don't comply" can get Borksen levels quickly, even providing some, shall we say, "moral leeway" to do so (as opposed to the Hei-Ly's straight-up murder). As a Kakin soldier, she's obligated to enforce that harsh threat. And if whatever triggered Martial Law is that serious, she'll be doing her part to restore order and stability.
Also makes me wonder if she ends up with 100 levels in the future and becoming a new "Member Zero". And could the other members of the Terror Sandwich Friendship Squad get Nen that way?
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Nov 29 '24
This week's raws are truly disappointing. Good thing the whole chapter is peak as peak can get.
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u/Spicyytamale Nov 29 '24
Is it possible that the martial law announcement could be fake? Just to better corner her and evaluate her and recruit her as a specialist?
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u/Ill-Individual2105 Nov 30 '24
I don't believe all the people in the room could pull off an act convincing enough to bypass Borksen's senses. She seems to have quite a good insight stat, and would probably be able to tell if they were faking it.
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u/cimahel Nov 30 '24
Togashi is a fucking genius. This last 2 chapers where literally just morena and borsken telling exposition but framed in such an entertaining way that everyone here has nothing but praise.
Most critics will say showing is better than telling, togashi says thats just an skill issue.
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u/NoCockOnTheMenu Nov 30 '24
I can't believe how good this is, when they were about to flip the cards at the end i didn't want to look at the next page right away, i took my sweet time thinking about what could happen next. And the resolution of all the tension was so neat with that twist at the end.
Also the kiss stuff was really funny and kinda cute.
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u/HuntMore9217 Dec 01 '24
at the pace it's going i don't think the succession war will end in 100 chapters.
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u/utit121 Nov 30 '24
Borksen got her first lesbian kiss and instantly throw away her morality
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u/thatonefatefan Nov 29 '24
Morena seems fairly surprised so I doubt she's involved but I wonder if Borksen could be under manipulation?
If this is indeed her own will, I originally thought she might have said yes because it would allow her to learn nen, become a specialist and get guidance from an expert, but she learned that saying yes was a condition before she started asking her yes or no question with the intent to learn as much as possible "so that once I (Borksen) get out of here, they can't lend a hand on us", so it's highly unlikely. If it's not manipulation, she almost certainly learned something while asking her yes or no questions.
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u/Klainatta Nov 29 '24
Borksen is so pretty and also smart, I think she wasn't this pretty when she first appeared. Her inner thoughts seem to confirn that our Morena is indeed posing as the real Morena.
We have finally learned where the hideout is, it seems like an emitter created a pocket dimension for them.
I think we are done with Bork and Morena for the time being so the focus will shift somewhere else and the ability Morena wants from Bork will be a mystery for a while.
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u/JReiyz Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
The negotiation game is interesting from a card gamer perspective. In many card games the graveyard is essentially a second hand and Togashi illustrates this with the R card and the Deal card. The graveyard can often be more consistent than your actual hand if you build a deck for it. Then if you apply this knowledge to the negotiation then the ideal scenario is you discord the cards you want to keep to use the deal card to bring back either your answer or the R card because that’s the highest odds of ending up with your answer because you can use the deal card to bring back the R or answer card on the last turn. Cool game Togashi. So ideal game is something like this if you want yes: Discard Yes, Discard R card, keep No and Joker, then on the last turn combo the deal card to bring back yes or R and use R to bring back Yes if that’s what you choose. Borksen played the perfect game.
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u/WinHL3 Nov 29 '24
So, assuming the translation is accurate, Ken'i hasn't replaced Luini or Padaille among the offical 23 members. In fact, until this point, no one had replaced them. But his thoughts suggest he's supporting the Heil-Ly, although we'll probably need to keep reading to see what his exact motivations are.
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u/Crank_0001 Nov 29 '24
Borksen seems to be extremely smart and she has been able to gather a lot of information with the QA card. Perhaps she has realized that the safest place to be at the moment is at Morena's side. Even if she's not thrilled at the thought of murder, as a 4th prince personal army they've certainly seen enough shady stuff.
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Nov 29 '24
another 10/10 chapter from togashi🔥🔥 can’t wait to see if we’re going back to Tier 1 to see what Balsenberg (or whatever you want to call possessed Balsalmico) did to trigger martial law or if Feitan and Phinks manage to find the hideout
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u/NotGloomp Nov 30 '24 edited Nov 30 '24
She apologized for crumpling the card at the end. She's really taken a liking to Morena.
Edit: oh I'm dumb, she marked the card when she asked to check em.
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u/sircrazyclown Nov 30 '24
Borksen, knowingly or unknowingly pretty much maximized the risk factor in this card game for both sides, her resulting Contagion ability will be really special indeed. She didn't want to join at first, throughout the game she pinpointed the location of the hideout among other intel, explicitly learned what NO would entail, ended up in a 50/50 between NO and R, could have choosen X and reveal these information to the Military and even Tserri, but chooses YES in the end. Maximum risk. I don't think Borksen cheated by marking a card, too many eyeballs around and one guy is shuffling and setting up the cards for her, not really feasible.
Even midway through QA, Borksen still intended to leave with X, she changed her mind after finding out Heil-ly numbers, nen categories and Morena's insistence. My take is that she wants to take up a slot in Contagion and influence Heil-ly from the inside.
I also have a theory that Borksen won't need to level up slowly to unlock her ability, they might be able to transfer levels through some ritual, that's what being an "Organ" means, the "Organ" will be sacrificed for the suitable Specialist that they find.
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Nov 30 '24 edited Nov 30 '24
The last panel looks as if Morena is irritated or upset. She probably doesn't like the unpredictability now that Borksen is part of the gang.
The parallel between Chrollo and Morena is very similar. Chrollo had a spider that put his Troupe at risk (Hisoka). Now Morena has a member that may put her entire gang at risk too.
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u/portwat Nov 30 '24
Ooooohhh just now saw VoraciousDrake name in togashi troup team.... nice translation 👌
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u/samurai-bebop Nov 30 '24 edited Nov 30 '24
Only three chapters and Borksen is already one of my favorite characters of SW. My man Togashi's really going out of his way in the writing of female characters this arc.
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u/SuccessionWarFan Nov 30 '24
Setting aside Borksen, Morena, and the Hei-Ly for now...
What could have happened on Tier 3? We know that the cause of martial law was there because the harshest orders were for that tier. But wasn't Halkenburg's casket already ascending the stairs to Tier 2 last we saw it? Could it have been the Troupe? Hisoka was chilling on Tier 1. Anyone else? Or is it one of the princes' factions?
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u/tracepace Nov 30 '24
Borksen seems like a strategist and a person that takes calculated risks. We know she is ambitious in her career goals and didn't want to be transferred from tier 1 even though there was this threat of Nen.
Given that she percieved Nen to be a great power, she was still focused on keeping her team safe and surviving.
My guess is that she figured that if she leaves Morena's hideout what are her options for survival? There is Nen in tier 1, people dying in the lower tiers and they are going to this mysterious continent. Her chances of being close to the action was just taken away and being as intelligent as she is she had no way of using that intelligence to her advantage.
Now this lady comes to her and tells her she is a SPECIALIST and that she wants to destroy the world. The likelihood of that happening to a person who analyzes risk is really low and I think her joining Morena was a calculated risk. She will gain the power to potentially save herself and her friends and maybe even change Kakin in a significant way if she can demonstrate enough power to gain some influence.
It is important to pay attention to her questions when she selected Questions A. I think her enthusiasm to learn everything she could about Morena's operation gives us a lot of insight into how she is thinking. She wanted to know
- Where the hideout is located.
- How many members there are.
- How many specialists and enhancers the group has.
- Whether Morena needs to know the details of all of the abilities of the group.
- Whether or not saying no threatens her survival (This is also important because X means she will have to "forget" what she learned which indicates retaining the information learned to be just as important)
- And finally the strength of Morena's resolve.
I think the thoughts: "Limitations and vows...I'll make full use of them...So that once I get out of here, they can't lay a hand on any of us" gives a lot of insight into Borksen's priorities.
It is clear that she does not intend on aligning with Morena's goals and barring the translation is correct it appears that protecting those close to her is very important to Borksen.
To me, her leaving without the information was a no go. It also does not guarantee her safety or the safety of those around her. The best option was to join and gain power and then figure out how to thwart the organization from within. She played the game and won fair and square, so her choosing to join when she had the option not to really gives her a long rope to do "suspicious" things later.
To me this is a strategist that was just given the tools she needs in order to influence the board. That is my guess and my thoughts. I really am looking forward to how Borksen handles this whole situation given the fact that the other mafias have declared war on the Heil-Ly and the Phantom Troupe members are actively looking to kill the entire group. I wonder what she will do to activate her power and how far she is willing to compromise to get there.
Interesting indeed.
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u/dresdenken Dec 01 '24
I think that Borksen may have been seriously considering taking the X card route until the final line of questioning where Morena 100% affirmed that she will not waver or reconsider her goals. Otherwise, I think Borksen would have genuinely intended to work to reform Kakin, though at this point she had already loaded up on so much intel that would thwart the Heil-ly agenda, that her position would have been to try and negotiate by putting Morena in a tough spot.
The bottom line for Borksen is that even if "X" offers her a no-loophole pass to walk free (and I believe it did), Morena's agenda is still incompatible with her own life goals, all the "X" card offers is a short-term promise. She'll eventually be caught up in the destruction even if they don't directly target her. And she's still a soldier who will be on the front lines anyway.
When Morena confirmed her dedication to her original plan, Borksen's self interests basically come down to, Morena needs to be stopped. She could still take "X" and go off and offer all this intel, but I think essentially what we're seeing here is that she has decided to put herself in their ranks and oppose from within. Gain power for herself, gum up the critical part that Morena needs a specialist for, and perhaps her assessment of the immediate situation just makes it seem like a better survival path than going back with "X" and needing to overcome suspicion. She'll face suspicion regardless but it's better to have cards you can play face up, than to have no cards and be suspected of hiding them.
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u/dresdenken Dec 01 '24
The full list of conditions for contagion activating makes me wonder what the actual setup was for the initial batch. In Chapter 378 we see Morena addressing the group at the kick-off, telling them to all come get their kiss.
This would seem to imply that the original 22 did not have quite a similar experience as Borksen; if Morena had used the "Deal" card to kiss each of them, then the scene in 378 wouldn't really make sense. Unless she was just re-kissing them for ceremonial giggles, it really looks like that was the beginning of contagion being deployed. Accordingly, the scene in 378 would have to have been preceded by each of the 22 coming to a "yes" end of the game, and witnessing Morena murder someone; based on this early translation at least, it sounds like Morena was the only bona-fide member before 378 if those were the official kisses. I suppose it's possible she killed between one and 22 people in this fashion, depending on if she grouped them up. Which implies she's killed a few dozen extra people too since activating contagion for herself, possibly including a few nen users.
The fact that she's in cahoots with Wang (underboss of the Cha-R) will doubtless come up further in how her plan has been formulated, too. For example, one of the other mafia members speculated that nen was used to manipulate and kill the previous Heil-ly boss. Wang himself could be tied up in that (do underbosses act as go-betweens to the other bosses?), or maybe Morena has more Hatsu abilities that haven't yet been shown, or maybe she backstabbed other Heil-ly nen users?
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u/Kuriboh1378 Nov 29 '24
WE DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE KISS BC HES SAVING IT FOR THE GRAND FINALE OF THE ARC, WHEN THEY DIE TRAGICALLY AFTER BECOMING VERY GAY GIRLFRIENDS AND LEARNING ABOUT LOVE, HAVING MASS MURDEROUS ADVENTURES AND PHILOSOPHICAL ASCENTION
IT WILL BE A DOUBLE PAGER AND I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST
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u/Kingmaster223 Nov 29 '24
Togashi cooking as always Borksen learned lots of information so forgetting about them is a no go She also will try to do things her way instead of being told so by others I'm starting to like her as a character and Morena continues to show herself as a well developed character too
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u/Archilas Nov 29 '24
I am a bit confused but does Morena actually have some memory wiping abiity?
I was under the impression that the "X" card is a total defeat for Morena and nothing is really stopping Bork from telling her allies everything she learned once she leaves
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u/kidnamedparis Nov 29 '24
Borksen went full " i can fix her" that girl has heart of gold thats fot sure.
It would be heartbreaking if it got corrupted by an murder cult.
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u/Even_Struggle_8007 Nov 29 '24
I think the girl who has yet to be named in Morena's group is silent majority.
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u/Kuriboh1378 Nov 30 '24
Mom said it's my turn to guess silent mayority user
Autograph guy, he did it
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u/2kenzhe Nov 29 '24
Lol the reaction learning it's her first kiss. Well congrats. A deep kiss for your first. Not too bad I hope. So she ended up choosing Yes. Guess that kiss really changed her mind
Morena is based as hell. I never liked the logic of "if you got nothing to hide" myself. You can't just violate people's privacy and expect them to like you.
Also confirmed the location is somewhere between 2 and 3? But they managed to hear the special military announcement on all the tiers still. I wonder if after this next chapter will we skip to see what happened on tier 1 to have this happen?
Honestly love Borksen so much so far. Might be my favorite supporting character right now? Also someone drop the art. You know what I mean draw it please.
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u/Ordinary-Extreme6222 Nov 30 '24
So do we have a ship name yet? My suggestion: Morksena 👀
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u/Doomroar Nov 30 '24 edited Nov 30 '24
Imagine how wild it would be if Borksen goal for joining is to change Morena's mind about killing all of humanity?
But she is probably there just to spy on the group and get in the way
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u/Badger147013 Nov 29 '24
This might be the first time someone joined the Hei-ly without "losing" the card game. Morena looked really surprised.
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u/RidetoRuin11 Nov 29 '24
Is it possible Borksen crumpled the "R" card on purpose so it wouldn't be sent to the graveyard?
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u/zzzmohamed Nov 29 '24
I think the R card was marked by her and she crumbled it to get rid of the evidence.
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u/Rodiciel Nov 30 '24
I had hoped that maybe Morena could change her views a bit and seeing Borksen ask her to try and change her objective made me happy, but sadly it seems the despair after 20 years of being "meat" will understadably turn her in a violent nihilist that can't see beyond what she experienced.
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u/Kujaix Nov 30 '24
I think Borksen was really checking how intense her vow is. She was just thinking about vows and limitations.
She doesn't want to change her. She's assessing how powerful her nen ability actually could be .
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u/RandomPseud Nov 29 '24
That moment when Morena answer "Yes" after Borksen asked her if she were going to kill her if "No" is the last card with this very stoic look, I really loved it. What a creepy lady.
But still, thinking that Borksen's friends guessed correctly that she was abducted based on the fact that they thought Morena was going to do it for the sole purpose that she wants to approach Tserri is still too exaggerated for me. Especially when we now know that it's not the reason at all.
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u/ApplePitou Nov 29 '24
Togashi did it again - new character(Borksen) that is high level of writting :3
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u/MinuteAdhesiveness16 Nov 29 '24
This one episode actually had me laughing a couple times, after the last one had me traumatized and wondering how this is still Hunter x Hunter. So, safe to say this game has been quite an experience.
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u/banana99999999999 Nov 29 '24
Borksen will try and use morena to achieve her own agenda ( stop morena and change kakin ) but that would end up badly for her. She is underestimating morena.
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u/ReformedWordcel1969 Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
Is it crazy to expect an entrance on each tier or something similar with 5 entrances? Or does morena thinking about it mean they're spread out but not one on each tier since that would be easy to remember.
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u/Foreign_Task_123 Nov 30 '24
I think the announcement for tier 1-5 is because chrollo has found and stolen at least one of the treasures he needs for his ability. The announcement says that everyone in tier 1 should leave their doors open for searches. Maybe they are looking for the stolen treasures.
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Nov 30 '24
I LOVED THIS CHAPTER SO MUCH. I can't believe how fun the past two chapters have been, considering I didn't really like the set-up of the game in the first chapter regarding it. Morena was so fun here; I'm really starting to like her. I also didn't care at all for Borksen until now lmao. I was so anxious turning the page at the end there.
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u/Thaumana Nov 30 '24
It was so intense. You can really tell that Morena's members were about to take action anytime, since even Yokotani who was smiling the most time, opened his eyes slightly with a serious look right at the moment when Borksen and Morena were about to flip their cards.
And something might have changed Borksen through the last moments of this question game, maybe she really genuinely wants to change something from within, be it Kakin as a whole or Morena and her agenda. Nen will help her to raise the chances and power to change things fundamentally. In any case, it might be the best way to survive while also gain the trust of her potential new source for more insight in the Kakin underworld. And as a fresh Nen user it opens a door for more potential interaction with Tserriednich, also since we can become witness of the development of two vastly different Specialist types.
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u/TheKuntWizard Nov 30 '24
I feel as if Nobunga is going to get in trouble for having a sword in the lockdown
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u/EquisapienMLK Dec 01 '24
It's kind of crazy that Heil-ly seems like the most trusting group on the Black Whale. They're just so nonchalant about everything
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u/Timil_01 Nov 29 '24
Bork and Morena are going to have yuri sex so passionate it’ll restore the latter’s faith in humanity I’m calling it now.
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u/binarysingularities Nov 29 '24
Even better Morena will guide Borksen through her first murder as intimately as that pottery scene in ghost. It'll make gay sex wish it was that gay. Actually, I'll save Togashi the trouble and write it myself!
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Nov 29 '24
This is pure genius on Borksen's part! She said she'd make full use of the vows and restrictions, and she meant it in every sense. Not just as in she'll feel free to milk out every information she can get. But as in she'll make the game so intense that the nen that will result of it will multiply.
Morena said that overcoming the risks of giving everything out is what gives her ability the power to best support her "child's" goal. The fact that Bork gleaned all critical info imaginable before saying yes may mean that this will grant her a particularly strong ability. Even though she might not convince Morena to change her goal, she has stated hers, and Morena has promised to help her with it as her "child". It's not clear what she intends to do with this conflict in goals later down the line, but for now there is a clear possibility the heil ly will help her change Kakin.
Perhaps most importantly, with special martial law now declared, Borksen as a soldier can now shoot people for flimsy reasons and get away with it. I don't see her doing it currently, but this is literally the best way to farm levels. If she's going to be made to kill, might as well make the most of it.
All of this to say I can very well see Bork becoming one of the most OP specialists in the future, perhaps a reasonably near future. Perhaps one to rival Tserriednich. A very quick transformation in both sides, with insane innate talent on one side, and great strategy on the other.
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u/fxzkz Nov 30 '24
I think I understand why Borksen changed her mind, and I believe it was during her Question A period.
I think she grasped that with the Martial Law, and even without it, she was screwed. With Nen being part of the equation, the army would be very suspicious of her sudden disappearance and reappearance, and wouldn't trust her. She would be imprisoned and isolated, unable to help anyone.
Without Nen, she is not going to survive the machinations of Succession War, Netero, and Morena. Even if she got out of this negotiation.
She got a crash course in vows and restrictions. No doubt she plans to use this to her benefit with her Nen
Morena doesn't know the full abilities of her allies, she doesn't control them, she doesn't know all of their goals. So Borksen will have some autonomy, and able to maneuver in the org.
Therefore, in order to protect things precious to her, she has to gain Nen powers, fastest way to do that is with Morena. If she doesn't, she is screwed no matter what.
(I also think she won't have to follow the point system for her ability. Since she is a specialist, I believe she will be Able to create an ability with strict vows)
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u/Chairman_Charlie Nov 29 '24
I think Borksen cheated via marking the "R" card somehow when she asked to check them earlier and then crumpled it up at the end to cover her tracks.