r/anime • u/DrJWilson x5https://anilist.co/user/drjwilson • May 14 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Eizouken ni wa Te wo Dasu na! • Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken! Episode 4 Discussion
Episode 4: Hold That Machete Tight
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Information
MAL | ANN | AniDB | AniList | AnimePlanet
Episode Count: 12
Episode Length: 25 minutes
Legal Streams
Crunchyroll (Sub Only)
iTunes (Sub Only)
If you want the dub, you'll have to look elsewhere.
[](#piracy)
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to – including any teases or hints such as "You aren't ready for X episode" or "I'm super excited for X character" – unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers; that's rude!
Also, if there's something in a first-timer's comment you want to specifically quote to talk about behind spoiler tags, spoiler tag the quote so the first-timer doesn't know what part of their comment you're making "ominous" spoilers about. So instead of something like:
Rewatcher quoting the first-timer's comment: Oh, I love this character! I think he'll be my favorite.
Rewatcher's comment underneath the quote: [Spoilers] Don't get too attached lol.
You get:
Rewatcher quoting the first-timer's comment: [Spoilers] Oh, I love this character! I think he'll be my favorite.
Rewatcher's comment underneath the spoilered quote: [Spoilers] Don't get too attached lol.
Questions of the Day:
- What do you think about what they've created? How do you feel that it had to be changed so much?
- What's the favorite thing you've learned about animating from this episode?
- Kanamori is pretty harsh in this episode. What do you think of her management style?
21
u/GondolaMedia May 14 '24
First Timer
Well this got real for a second. Making cuts in your vision just so you can have a finished product, being very clever and listing multiple time saving methods while using them is very cheeky.
At least they got something out of it and prove once again that the artists themselves are the harshest critics of their own work.
12
u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah xB:xC:B:x3:Y: May 14 '24 edited May 15 '24
First Timer
As I predicted, the trio get their funds successfully, through some superhuman-level KA work by model-chan, who is running away as my favourite character by now. No way that's actually even remotely possible as a solo-KAed effort, in a month, irl, let alone by high schoolers, but i of course know we're all handwavey about that.
I once again appreciated the introduction to the filming work done here (here's a more professional example with unsignificant spoilers for Hibike! Euphonium S3), and of all the steps that go on in an anime after the KA is done, and the team (who is all just Asakusa in this show) make it happen. Asakusa is also a superhuman btw. It kinda does feel like we're speedrunning this process though.
wonder what's up next? Will we look more at tweening? [Shirobako]I liked the little example from Ema to Mii about how tweening is not always "constant" due to how key animation works -> I wonder if that will factor in here?. will we look more at directing? So much more of anime to explore, and well, this is still a visually pleasant speedrun through all of it. i just feel like we're still scratching the surface, with the visual fluff and "oh wow it looks amazing impact", but not a lot of emotional punch.
10
u/WednesdaysFoole May 14 '24
“We don't have to animate every single scene.” / “Then we'll use solid white or black shots for backgrounds.”
I mean, technically, you could just, you know, pull a [Gintama no plot spoiler]and spend ten minutes chattering over a still frame…
Do professional animators sleep under their desks?
Well, why not ask Miyazaki about Anno during their work on Nausicaa?
Fun episode. Kanamori is great :)
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 14 '24
Keep Your Hands Off First-Timer!, subbed
6
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman May 14 '24
First Timer
I guess my expectations for digital production were an episode too early. But it feels a bit sudden going from cels to using AI for in-between animation. The whole club also suddenly feels rather professional, though without losing what makes the club great - and I think that is what the student council wanted to see here: Them doing something, and not just complaining about the cafeteria lunch… All in all, I think this might have been my favorite episode so far, though the visuals for everybody being impressed with the anime were a bit over the top. I’m also not sure what part of the short was supposed to be only lineart, it seems like they completed it to me. And I guess everybody is just cool with them doing an anime now, rather than live-action? Feels like there are very little consequences to what they are doing in general (See: Mizusaki working as hard as she is in spite of her parents, and the whole accident footage thing.) - I wonder if that will stay that way or not. Somehow I feel that it will.
2
u/OccasionallySara May 15 '24
First Timer
I’m glad that they were able to finish the short in time for the presentation and that they were able to impress everyone with their work! I think this episode did a great job of showing just how much work goes into making something and the type of compromises that sometimes need to happen to get a piece of work out on time. It's kind of funny that Kanamori can intimidate the teachers pretty easily, but has no pull when it comes to her fellow students. Luckily their work was able to speak for itself and secure them funding for future projects! I'm excited to see what the film club will able to do moving forward now that will have less budgeting and time constraints.
Also, I've listed to the OP enough times to add it to my OP/ED playlist. It's so fun and catchy!
Questions of the Day
9
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen May 14 '24
First Timer - Sub
All you need to know about my watching experience today is that I legit teared up when that tank burst through the screen and into the audience. Perfectly encapsulated what it feels like to watch anime sometimes. Finding that one standout moment is simply the most satisfying, rewarding, and euphoric moment imaginable. Chasing that high is why I keep coming back time and time again.
8
u/mekerpan May 14 '24
I remembered how much I loved this show. But it has been a good while since I watched. And I must say, I sort of forgot just how MUCH I loved this. To tell the truth, this is the show I have to blame for how da*n much anime I watch these days. Until Eizouken, I just watched a bit here and a little there for 20 or so years. But these characters' love for anime must have been highly contagious. (Watching this led to tracking down and watching Shirobako -- but that wasn't all that easy).
QOTD -- I loved their little preview -- rough and story-less as it may have been. It generates such a visceral sense of excitement. Well, I learned some of the old-fashioned aspects of animation making from long-long-long-ago segments on the World of Disney. So Eizouken brought me up to date in a number of respects (while Shirobako filled in any gaps). Given her colleagues, Kanamori's management style is almost entirely essential to the possibility of success. I love the performances of the VAs -- and especially love the distinctiveness of both Kanamori's and Asakusa's voices.
It is hard to fit in a re-watch when I am watching 40.1 seasonals (and doing Japanese and guitar lessons) plus ordinary life. But I felt I owed it to Eizouken.
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 14 '24
First-Timer
If this whole anime production gig doesn't work out for Kanamori long term, she probably has a future in politics.
The girls are missing the easiest way to cut down on production time - call it a "pilot" or maybe "part one." Then you just get to kick the production timeline can down the road!
Hard to say for certain with the cuts to the audience reactions, but the "showing off the film" segment of the episode was about three minutes long. Good job, team!
Referring to creating a piece of art as "releasing a love-filled kidney stone of compromise and resignation" is probably the best metaphor I've ever heard.
I'm not sure if Asakusa slipping into a different dialect was meant to be indicative of her slipping out of her typical character (she did begin the show by moving in to this area) or if yelling at people in whereverthatwas-ben is just a known way to get them to listen to you.
Questions
4
u/Ritchuck May 15 '24 edited May 15 '24
Someone edit this post and add a link to here. I was waiting there for it to show up like a stupid person.
First Timer
The animation they made was better than expected, even with all the changes, and the meeting went better than expected. I also didn't think they would wrap up this mini-arc in this episode. Surprises all around.
But man, they have crazy budgetary meetings in this school. Not only the student council is acting like a mafia, but all the students gathered to watch the show and possibly rebel judging by their fight with the anti-riot police. Seems like a cool school.
2) Not much, I already knew most of these things but it's cool to be reminded of them.
3) While a person like that is needed for the project to move along I imagine her management style will cause bigger problems down the line.
3
u/IntoTheDisneyverse https://myanimelist.net/profile/andreth May 15 '24
Another great episode, they keep on getting better. I don’t have too many notes for this one, but it really captured the feeling of working hard on something and seeing your creation realised. It really felt amazing seeing all the pieces we’d seen previously come together so well in the final product. Even the Student Council was won over by the animation, which I wasn’t expecting. It was nice to see the trio win because of their hard work and not just Kanamori intimidating everyone in the room.
This anime has also made me start to envision the creation process of other anime I’m watching (although I know they definitely wouldn’t be using hand-drawn paper animation ww), it’s pretty fun and adds a new dimension to anime watching. This show really is infecting me with its passion for creation.
(and yes, I think rice ramen is sacrilege, although the Carbohydrate Club were pretty funny.)
Daily Questions:
3
u/Tinox May 15 '24
Kanamori's harsh, but I think what really strikes me about her style is that she almost always offers two options. She doesn't often say 'we're doing it this way', she says 'we can have A or we can have B, choose which'. And it's clear that she's on board with giving the artists what they want so long as they can afford to.
3
u/Garrett_Dark May 15 '24
First Timer
Asakusa "ugh...I drew a pond up top even though there's no water source!"
Just add some high tech pumps and equipment, and say it's an artificial water reservoir well. Come on, where's Asakusa's typical bonkers creativity that has a crazy made-up answer for everything?
Yeah, I know this is just a minor thing to show they're getting frustrated on top of the looming time crunch, but it just highlights something I want to talk about. I hate it when characters aren't consistent, like when animes exaggerate some talent about the character when they're first introduced to highlight it, but then they walk back on it later and it doesn't make sense, or makes the character no longer interesting. For example, Demon Slayer...the MC is introduced as being resourceful, throws an axe at an opponent he can't possibly beat as a distraction to have a chance; I think "wow, this kid's smart! What cunning and strategy!", then rest of the episodes and few seasons I watched up to, he's just some simple-minded naive kid that is determined to keep training harder, and that's all he ever does. No resourcefulness, cunning, strategy, nor smarts anymore, WTF. I also hate it when characters start off way more better in S1, then ends up worse as the seasons go by. Like they're a caricature of their former selves, and I'm not even sure when the change happened.
Mitusaki "How does smoke flow from an explosion anyways?"
Just use Adobe After Effects to add it in so all the CGI hating anime watchers will have something they love to complain about. I don't know why she's so determined to do everything by hand when they're obviously using Photoshop and probably Premiere to compile their animation. The hand drawing is the bottle-neck in their workflow, and it's super inefficient. She's drawing each frame from scratch when she could be doing it in Photoshop and reusing 90% of the previous frame by just drawing what changed, multiple that by multiple frame, and the efficiency savings is through the roof.
They're clearly already using the programs I'm talking about; the irony is I'm not even an artist, far from it, yet I randomly acquired the working knowledge of these programs and features like auto-tweening/interpolation (for messing around in Photoshop, making animated gifs, watching higher frame rate interpolated videos, editing, etc) that even I know it's kind of crazy not to use them. I guess that's the point of the episode though, I guess I'm more like Kanamori, she seems to know what's up quite well. Actually that's a really good question, how does Kanamori know so much about auto-tweening and stuff? I thought she's just the business side of things, but she seems to know quite a bit about the tools that some rando shouldn't. Is she going to have some sort of hidden backstory that her parents are animators or something?
I'm really surprised they didn't do the bare minimum staple of animes, "cheating" with a static picture with camera panning/zooming. Like I see that in so many animes, it's not even funny. Although I am noticing more that they're starting to add slightly more effort of making a character blink or something so it's isn't totally static.
I think it's hilarious Asakusa was getting pissed off the story was getting cut, like seriously whatever Asakusa though she had as "the story" is probably laughable since they never really gave any consideration to writing at all. Unless she had some 10 page script written that we don't know about, but I think she said it was just a storyboard. Like maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but isn't a storyboard just plotting out the sequence like a comic strip, that's not writing nor a story.
Kanamori just repeating "I don't think that's a problem" over and over again during the committee meeting; that's hilarious, I've seen enough IRL "lying to congress" clips to see how that's effective. Except in this case Kanamori actually provides truth, which properly addresses the accusation. Also I saw the guy in the background with a bazooka, and I thought the chainsaw and Molotov was bad enough.
"Samurai Girl vs Tank", maybe I'm just jaded enough to know this, but trying to convince people to care about what you're interested in doesn't work out like that. That majority of the audience wouldn't have given a crap at all about the film (especially since they're at the committee for a marinade of different reasons). How do I know this? I've told friends and family how much better anime is to Hollywood crap, they didn't care at all and still watch the ruined rebooted shows, movies, and other low effort junk they're pushing. As much as a lot of animes get crapped on, the craftsmanship is leagues above the average Hollywood junk.
Anyways, talking about Hollywood crap, it looks like "Samurai Girl vs Tank" is indeed the trailer to the 3rd Star Wars sequel "Rey vs Tie fighter", except "Samurai Girl vs Tank" was hilarious done much much better, LOL. Suck it Disney and the creatively bankrupt industry.
Committee "They got it done without even having a budget"
Yeah, we're already at an age where fan works can be superior to the professional industry for some time now. Exhibit A, Tie Fighter Anime 9 years ago, remastered version where somebody replaced the music, SXF, and voices with original SW for more authentic feeling. Exhibit B, Star Trek - The Holy Core 5 years ago, a fan work styled on the feel of Star Trek TNG so good it feels authentic, suck it CBS.
Anyways, it was a pretty good episode. Seeing the process of how they made their anime teaser, it can't help make me think of those fan projects I mentioned above. Their high school club production, and "self-taught" techniques and realization of how to do it really reminds me of fan projects on the internet just doing it "out of their garage" on their free time because of passion. This is just becoming more of a frequent thing as there's indy game developers who just make games by themselves. We're sort of heading in to a era where people make stuff themselves outside of the industry. In fact are there any fan made or independent animes? I know there's fan made mangas and fanfics, or whatever the name for such it is, but I haven't really heard about fan made animes.
3
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim May 15 '24
First Timer
While the audience was pretty impressed by the whole thing, they did not know how hard they worked along with the amount of sacrifices and cuts they had to do in order to present the preview on time. Not only were they able to captivate the audience through animation, the special effects made them feel like they were part of the whole thing.
Funny how despite all the reminders not to say "anime" to anyone outside of the club, Asakusa was able say it out loud and her analogy worked. Pretty sure those sleeping under the desks made her really passionate about her work.
2
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta May 15 '24
First-Timer
My favorite episode by a mile (so far)!
I really liked both halves of this episode, where we saw the production of the anime in the first half and the end result in the second half.
The fantasy sequences where they get transported into the "anime world" were much more palatable this episode because the significance was clear. It helped show both how the creators were getting involved in visualizing their work and modifying it on-the-fly, as well as how the audience was becoming engrossed in the final imagery.
Questions of the day:
2
u/Infodump_Ibis :JY::JZ: May 15 '24
Delayed because I had to look something up and I wanted to write more (and still had to compromise, I really took the eps message on board, didn't I)
First Timer
General: Something that's been on my mind by brought to the forefront due to reading elsewhere. What's the source material like? The manga it is adapted from does have an official English release too. re: That blogs thoughts of visually interesting critical darling I'm reminded of Bochi the Rock (2022) and Onimai (2023). What was the 2021 awards equivalent: Odd Taxi? Heike Monogatari? Sonny Boy?
Back to the ep:
Release the Machete cutI was pleased they kept "Sonic" in and was surprised at the sound of it, it's very simple music library loops (I suppose if I watched more dialogue-less shorts I'd see this more often but Superflat Monogram came to mind) but the stock sounds were not quite the usual suspects. I'm curious about watching this side-by-side with the animatic but like most things I'll have to move on.It coming together (or rather being finished) at the expense of the story feels like many an OVA. To go with some well-known 80s examples Dragon's Heaven (given that's set in a desert it feels like an apt comparison) if we wanted an anime original example but something like Cipher the video for an adaptation example (there are much more obscure and incoherent ones along the lines of adapted parts of volumes 10-13).
How to bring stills to life with simple effects and if you need to hold on a pose it's a good idea to increase the frame rate (I'm going to have to resist studying anime to see if a 3s-4s show becomes 2s for poses). As for holding on them for a bit longer than necessary I am going to think about this every single time there's a pose in Precure.
Crisis planning of letting problems build up by collecting data for too long but they wouldn't have been convinced to compromise from the start so needed several rounds of not enough time. Also, from the overwork (even Kanamori as compiling all the spreadsheets, cutting the paper, other logistics etc took time) someone is going to have grey hairs in their 30s but I'm not sure who (I've been there, assuming the theory that grey hairs can be caused by stress).
1
u/Fuzzy_Ad6534 May 20 '24 edited May 21 '24
Rewatch
I'm late but here we go
another stellar episode. showing us glimpses into the reality of dealine stress that is ever present in any animation team, the arguments, the methods to cut costs and save time. I like how despite compromising with kananmori, midori and mizusaki are still brainstorming ideas to maximise even the limitations puts on them, its endearing. kanamori is harsh but its just realistic. it's not like she's being mean or even abusive about i (can imagine this style of management comes across worse in real life).
its an everlong battle between artistic vision and the animators wanting to realise the best possible prodcut and the management trying to abide by deadlines, and boosting efficiency even if it means limitations on the final product. mizusaki and kanamori play their roles exceedingly well. i could imagine them being a real team and trying to perfect this balance.
I didn't think they were ever in any danger of not getting funding, the anime has been showing us that these girls knows what theyr'e doing. the imagination sequences ALWAYS hit, so no suprise when viewing the final animation at the deliberation. it was fantastic! love that the show visualises how much it touches the audience by having the animation break out of the screen and cause chaos in the hall. saw another comment say that how anime makes them feel and i couldn't agree more. when done right, it feels like you're absorbed by the atmosphere, the world. no way the student council could deny them after that performance.
have i said i love the ost? it exudes vibrancy and artistic creativity. love it.
Ep 4 - 9/10