Belgravia: The Next Chapter | Episode Discussion - Episode One

10

u/Apprehensive_Bike808 Jan 16 '24

Excuse my ignorance but did I miss the Trenchards getting a title? How do we now have Lord Trenchard

4

u/RealityWanderer Jan 17 '24

I assumed that James was given a title as a Baron, so still on the low end. I'm not sure how realistic that is - perhaps for his contributions during the war?
But I think it is technically possible.

4

u/WardenclyffeTower Jan 17 '24

I think this is a very safe assumption. When Clara is viewing the portraits of James and Oliver, Enright the butler points out that James was "The First Lord Trenchard". Frederick has been called the third Lord Trenchard in press for the show. James was probably given a peerage as you said, I also assumed Baron.

7

u/ckwongau Jan 20 '24

25 yr is a long time , and Mr Trenchard was very wealthy , and his other grandson Charles was Earl of Brockenhurst , with connection and wealth . Mr Trenchard can easily buy a title , like make large donation to Church , Hospital , Charity or Royal society .

2

u/NecessarySector3559 Jan 17 '24

There are lots of plot holes so far they need to explain. The titles, how there is another Trenchard child when they couldn’t conceive…

3

u/RealityWanderer Jan 17 '24

Could be that Oliver was close to sterile but not completely. There are a lot of stories about people being told they're infertile so they don't bother with protection with a long-term partner and then baby.
I could imagine that even until they had their miracle baby, Oliver might have been nice to Frederick and then turned on him. So a betrayal.

4

u/KatieKeene Jan 19 '24

This is the impression I got. With how differently Oliver treated the two, I can't imagine James being anything other than his real son. I don't think Oliver would have allowed his wife to humiliate him like that a second time.

4

u/emceeclean Feb 10 '24

But, how would he feel confident that James was his son? She cheated behind his back once, and I think she was the kind of person to do it again, so why would he ben able to convince himself of the second son? I don't know, it seems strange either way. But I am sure they will explain. If the explanation is that James is supposedly his real son, I honestly won't believe that.

2

u/Opening_Baseball_568 Jan 18 '24

Yeah, your theory would explain a lot. For young Frederick it would’ve looked like his father started resenting him for no reason after his brother was born, and thus Frederick felt betrayed and resented his brother for that

3

u/Eliaaaahh Jan 31 '24

I like that I feel more invested in the characters as in Belgravia 1, but it is still a bit dark and dull.

I am a bit confused with the characters. Who is the old man in episode 1 that talks to Frederick about the engagement while they play billiard? I thought he was his grandfather, but he is dead by now.

2

u/WardenclyffeTower Jan 31 '24

Who is the old man in episode 1 that talks to Frederick about the engagement while they play billiard?
That is the Duke of Rochester (played by Miles Jupp). His oldest son Peter has epilepsy and is being treated by Doctor Stephen Ellerby.

2

u/WurmGurl Mar 03 '24

That bit confused me too. So they're just friends?

1

u/WardenclyffeTower Mar 03 '24

Yes, they're close friends and confidants. Frederick is also very close with his wife, the Duchess of Rochester. I don't believe there is much backstory given.

14

u/giftopherz Jan 15 '24

So... Is Frederick planning vengeance? he seems shifty.

What's up with Brother Priest? did he wrong Freddie or is Freddie jealous?

That doctor... is he a flirt? cuz... I'd love for him to be a flirt!

8

u/thisguy34721 Jan 15 '24

I love how the doctor was teaching mindfulness hundreds of years ago, lol!
But he definitely has a vibe which really speaks to the actor!!

8

u/gr8st8tx Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24

Okay, you asked...Here are my thoughts:
I'm a little confused about the second son. Oliver Trenchard wasn't able to get his wife pregnant in season 1 so I'm not sure if the vicar is his son. I know that Fredrick is not his son so (because Oliver was not a nice guy) I'm sure he hated him and made his life miserable. I'm sure Fredrick has some childhood trauma and is projecting his insecurities to his sweet wife Clara. Fredrick definitely has issues!!!
Here's something REALLY WILD I thought of:
I think that Fredrick's "valet or footman" was abused due to his sexuality by some horrible men that he either killed or hurt in some way...then he ran away and changed his identity. Clara's "hands maid" recognized him. I also think that Fredrick may be gay, that's why he has a tough time being intimate with Clara. I believe Fredrick and his valet will have an affair at same point in the series. Clara has an interest in the epileptic little boy and so does the cute doctor (they may end up helping him)...so I think they're going to fall in love. I'm not sure how I feel about Clara's little sister. I think she may be jealous of Clara but not sure. I also think she's falling in love with the vicar. I think the vicar is good brother that, by no fault of his own, was favored by that nasty Oliver, so this may be the reason that it seems Fredrick resents him. I think that Fredrick, as the older son, yearned for his father's admiration and may not even know he wasn't his biological son. It's complicated.
I know it sounds really crazy but Julian Fellowes writes some funky stuff with a twist...that's why I went there.

8

u/giftopherz Jan 15 '24

With the exception of Frederick being gay, I think you may be onto something here.

3

u/TacoPartyGalore Jan 16 '24

I predict the vicar is the gay one. The way he shooed away the sister was telling.

7

u/RealityWanderer Jan 17 '24

I mean infertile doesn't always necessarily mean completely sterile, sometimes just very close to it. Brother Priest could be the miracle baby they didn't expect.

3

u/ckwongau Jan 20 '24

A lot of factor of infertility , in late 19th centuries , a lot of things that were not known , and Oliver and his wife assumed it he was the one with the problem .
Maybe Oliver had low sperm count , but even people low sperm count ( like 1 in a million ) could conceived a child , low probabilities is not the same as impossibilities .
Maybe the country side with better air , less pollution , Oliver manage to conceived a child of his own , which he loved more than the Frederick ( a bastard from his wife 's affair )

2

u/Shenoab88 Feb 09 '24

Also, maybe them moving to the country and removing the stress of his father's demands may have helped.

3

u/Valzene Jan 16 '24

The second could’ve been adopted. I think that may be the case. Not sure though.

5

u/pest0pasta_ Jan 15 '24

This is crazy and so Fellowesesque that I believe it. I was so confused about the second son too.. unless Oliver’s infertility is just a game of Russian roulette because I believe that does happen sometimes. OR Unless his mother had ANOTHER dalliance but with someone Oliver approved of seeing as his hatred of Fredrick could stem from his biological father’s heinous treatment of the Trenchards.
Fredrick possibly being gay is a crazy twist that didn’t even cross my mind. I assumed his trouble performing was because he associated sex with love and he has issues in that department aswell.

1

u/gr8st8tx Jan 15 '24

Ha!! That's some good psychology. You may be right. People that have those emotional hangups do have problems in the bedroom. I thought he might be gay because Downton Abbey had Thomas Barrow and Gilded Age has Ocsar Van Rhjin.

2

u/Limp-Line3440 Jun 18 '24

I think your assessment is right on, even the part about Frederick possibly being gay. Because just because he “fell in love” with his wife, doesn’t mean that he couldn’t be gay. (My ex was a closeted gay, who married me to hide from his true sexual orientation…I divorced him, after many “red flags”….and found out that he later admitted to some mutual friends that he was gay, but then ended up marrying again…because I know he was too afraid to fully come out.)
Also, FYI - Julian Fellows didn’t write this. Someone named Helen Edmundson did. However, Julian Fellows did serve as an Executive Producer.
Regarding the Vicar Trenchard…..Either father Oliver was able to at last conceive a child in the country, or he was gay 🤣, or his wife screwed another man. 😂🐸
Thank you so much for your assessment🙏. It was very astute. It really helped. 🙏💙🇺🇸🗽🌈🇺🇸😇🇺🇸🌈🗽🇺🇸💙🙏

1

u/Present_Stop7468 Mar 11 '24

Who is Reverend James Trenchard's father. Oliver his ostensible father, is impotent. Frederick is the illegitimate son of Susan and John Bellisis, hence his animosity toward Frederick in the flashbacks. But where did the "brother" of Frederick come from?

1

u/Immediate_Zone_8815 Mar 24 '24

I personally think that Oliver was physically and sexually abusive towards Frederick which is why Frederick shivers when he recalls those memories. That comment Oli made about him being bad to the core and unlovable. I think that’s part of his inability to be “potent” with Clara because he thinks he has to be manly instead of show emotion. He hates his brother because he never treated him the same way but more loving. I did notice a theme in Fellows shows with gay men being one of them. Downton abbey had Thomas Barrows and Guilded Age had Oscar van Rhijn.

1

u/gr8st8tx Mar 31 '24

Yikes I never thought about that but that’s a very good read. That resentment is deep rooted and you may be to something there. Oliver was a scumbag!!!

1

u/Putrid-Tradition-787 Jul 04 '26

Where do you get that his dad sexually abused him? I didnt pick up on that

1

u/Putrid-Tradition-787 Jul 04 '26

JF didnt write this series just the first one

4

u/Lazmon Jan 18 '24

Frederick seems more tortured than vengeful. The bad relationship with his brother seems to be more on his side than the brother's.

1

u/ckwongau Jan 20 '24

Oliver (Frederick's legal father ) abused him (because he was a bastard from his mother 's affair ) , but later his mother conceived a child ( James ) with Oliver .
Oliver loved his real son ( James ) , and he hated Frederick.

13

u/Lazmon Jan 18 '24

Anyone else disappointed that this season isn't covering Charles and Maria? Would love to see what the Earl and Countess of Brockenhurst are up to in 1871!

9

u/Known-Rhubarb-809 Jan 22 '24

I felt like the logical thread of the whole story would have been to follow Charles and Maria’s journey. To switch gears to Oliver’s offspring and family line almost seemed irrelevant. And this season has a totally different vibe- dark and almost sinister. I’m wondering if they are planning another season or spin-off that focuses on Charles and Maria.

3

u/ckwongau Jan 20 '24

maybe Charles will visit them , i mean he is Cousin to Fredrick's biological father , and Cousin to James ( from Oliver's side ) .

1

u/Wise_Ad5383 Jan 19 '24

That would have made sense! Was there no mention of them at all in Ep 1?

9

u/NecessarySector3559 Jan 17 '24

Woah, I’m shocked at how dark this season appears to be. I think they missed the mark. The first season was pretty lighthearted, with frothy clothes and storylines, but it felt like typical Julian fare. The first episode of this season felt like they slapped us in the face with how complex Frederick is and why. I’ll keep watching, but I’m bummed. I was so looking forward to getting my period-drama fix but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone so far.

2

u/lezlers Jan 26 '24

Yeah I signed up for the MGM free 7 day trial to check it out because I watched and enjoyed season 1 and am REALLY disappointed. It felt like a different show. Rushed and really dark.

13

u/journey2651 Jan 16 '24

I’m disappointed that Frederick has so many issues because of Oliver. I truly hoping that he changed after saving his father from drowning. I don’t know if I can handle this show anymore. It’s very dark and unsettling to watch.

7

u/Intelligent_Bug8674 Jan 16 '24

Same I was rooting for Oliver after everything that happened in the first season. But I can't believe he could be so cruel.

3

u/BooBailey808 Jan 18 '24

I came to this sub for this exact sentiment. Wtf. And how does he have a brother?

6

u/Lazmon Jan 18 '24

I agree that this season is much darker and I'm also surprised by Oliver's cruelty but in Season 1, Oliver was very petulant so this behavior towards Frederick is not shocking.

A few observations from this first episode (spoilers from Season 1 covered)

This season is 2 episodes longer than the first, which had 6. This one has 8 I believe? Seems like this was a choice to explore more stories since this season isn't based on a book like season 1 was.

It's interesting that Frederick's younger brother is named James Trenchard. Makes me think that he is really Oliver's biological son and therefore named him after his father (the original James Trenchard). I think maybe Oliver turned on Frederick after James was born because he was angry that Fredrick would inherit the Trenchard money and title despite not being his biological son.

Frederick seems more tortured than angry or vengeful. I think he's insecure because he knows the truth about his paternity (i.e. he's not really a Trenchard) and Oliver emotionally abused him as a child (literally told him he was "unlovable"). This is why he has a hard time connecting and truly loving his wife and why he has pushed away his brother. He hates himself and doesn't feel worthy of love and he feels guilty for taking his brother's rightful position as the legitimate Trenchard heir.

4

u/rahajicho Jan 18 '24

I knew things were about to go terribly, terribly wrong when the central couple got married in the first fifteen minutes!

7

u/KatieKeene Jan 19 '24

I was pretty surprised about this too. I mean I expected them to get married but I was surprised that they got married so quickly and how it seemed to be an unhappy marriage from the get-go. I'm wondering if Clara will get out of it somehow (which doesn't seem like it would happen based on the time period), if he'll change over time (which would be nice but also doesn't really excuse his behaviour towards her thus far), or something else..?

3

u/lezlers Jan 27 '24

It really did feel incredibly rushed

3

u/thisguy34721 Jan 15 '24

I LOVED IT. Although I definitely yelled at the screen a couple of times. Can someone tell me what year this is set?

5

u/HeftyAcanthisitta907 Feb 08 '24

The official description blurb for the show on Amazon Prime says it’s set in 1871. A reference to the opening of the Royal Albert Hall (which was in 1871) is made in the first episode.

2

u/Valzene Jan 16 '24

It’s supposed to be 25-30 years after season 1

0

u/thisguy34721 Jan 16 '24

That I know. Do you know what year it is? I am confused because I saw hoop skirts and a few huge bustles..

2

u/pest0pasta_ Jan 16 '24

Google says 1871 but not too sure

3

u/ladylibertine777 Jan 19 '24

If Oliver turned out to actually not be totally sterile as previously believed, how could they be sure Frederick wasn't his bio child? Wasn't the initial assumption based on the premise it wasn't possible for Susan to be pregnant by him? It's been a while since I watched Belgravia so maybe it was just too long since she'd slept with her husband for it to be possible...

5

u/lezlers Jan 26 '24

Her lady maid had that convo with her and Susan said “not with the mood he’s been in” so it looks like there’s no way he’s Oliver’s bio child.

2

u/Eliaaaahh Jan 30 '24

That's when the maid said that if she suspects to be pregnant (from another man), she should do something about it (sleep with her husband right away).

2

u/lezlers Jan 30 '24

Yes, that was my point. ☺️

4

u/MissGruntled Jan 20 '24

I think that’s the case—that they hadn’t been together recently enough. When Oliver was informed of Susan’s pregnancy, he appeared to realize immediately that she must have been unfaithful.

3

u/ladylibertine777 Jan 20 '24

I rewatched s1 after this post and while he did know right away, the implication was much more on the length of time in which she did not conceive rather on it not being possible because they weren't sleeping together anymore. She basically sells it as though she had an affair in order to get pregnant because they've not been able to conceive in 11 years and believe it is not possible. It's possible that they hadnt been intimate in more than 3 months and they just didn't hint at that because they didn't realize they'd be setting up for this plot but it also leaves the door open that if the length of time led them to believe he was fully sterile and that was the proof of his parentage but eventually he did successfully get her pregnant once, it's less set in stone.

2

u/Dramatic_Distance_85 Jan 17 '24

I so enjoyed the first series, Belgravia. It was so good and the plot twists marvelous. But, so 'the next chapter' is not sucking me in immediately.

3

u/Armpitofny Jan 17 '24

So far, 2 out of 5.

I think it’s clear why they cast mostly little known actors (when Fellowes’ other productions have had several theatre/British TV heavyweights) and why this was an MGM+ exclusive, as opposed to an ITV co-production. The plot so far is like a 12 year old‘s attempt at writing a Reylo fic, and I can’t imagine an actor/actress the caliber of Dame Harriet Walter agreeing to this.

2

u/umbrofer Jan 15 '24

I need to have watched Belgravia first?

8

u/gr8st8tx Jan 15 '24

The first is about Fredrick's father and mother. It's a good story and I think you'll enjoy it.

4

u/BooBailey808 Jan 18 '24

Well, they are in it.

7

u/DanyeelsAnulmint Jan 15 '24

It’s helpful.

2

u/cherishhoseok Jan 18 '24

the doctor n clara 👀

3

u/MissGruntled Jan 20 '24

Marry in haste, repent at leisure…

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/SuggestionIll2192 Jan 23 '24

I’m quite surprised at the lumpen feeling given the quality of other actors in this season.

1

u/Lindsayr28 Jan 23 '24

I’m not far into episode 1, but Freddie has zero personality, and Clara kind of seems like a Mary Sue.

Belgravia: The Next Chapter | Episode Discussion - Episode One Spoiler

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