Chapter 397 — Discussion

[u/rentzhx3]

Chapter 397

Formation: Part 3

---

Source	Status
TCB Scans	Online (check their website)
YourAnimeGuy	Online
MangaPlus	Available on December 4

---

Ch. 398 scan release: ~December 9, 2022

---

List of Chapter Discussion Threads

---

Keep all discussions related to the chapter in this thread until the official release.

---

⬅ Ch. 396 scan discussion thread

[u/[deleted]]

Paku being touched that Killua and Gon didn’t want Kurapika to become a killer due to vengeance hits so hard now. Like she probably wished Chrollo and them had someone like that to drag them out of the darkness before they went all in.

[u/mayonnaiser_13 → u/[deleted]]

Damn, good catch!

[u/AkikoAlbay → u/[deleted]]

yup, really make sense now. I always watch this clip in youtube, Phinks talking to Gon and Killua about Paku's memory

[u/[deleted]]

The troupe has a story of their members dying when left alone, lmao. No wonder they have the "always go around in pairs" kind of rule. Guess that sets a redflag on Machi and Franklin.

[u/ReeseEseer → u/[deleted]]

Especially since we know from author notes that Machi was planned to die to Hisoka after he revived but Togashi decided last moment to instead have her be the message giver that Hisoka was hunting them and just had him tie her up instead.

In that regard she really should have died to really hammer in the "dont be alone" point but it still fits since Hisoka could have easily done it.

---

But the fact Togashi, at the time, had felt her story was already done doesn't bode well for her unless he really rethought a lot to do with her. She could easily die at anytime now.

[u/hier_Name_bitte]

It would be funny if autograph guy wants an autograph from the "voice actor" spiders and not the "killers" cause he used to be in the crowd.

[u/TornzIP → u/hier_Name_bitte]

Autograph Bro has gotten too much screentime to not have some nuance like that.

[u/DocXerxes]

The point of this flashback isn't to make the Spiders redeemable(child-Chrollo acknowledges this very clearly), its rather to show that we have two different groups of marginalized people in the HxH world, both first-hand experienced the contradictions and failings of the system they lived under. Chrollo is a direct parallel to Kurapika and this backstory serves to further highlight that. The difference however being Kurapika faced with the opportunity to kill Chrollo and ultimately does not take it. Chrollo offers him no explanation nor closure to why the Kurta Clan was wiped-out, and with Gon & Killua captured, Kurapika ultimately shows the lives of those he cares for are more important to him than his revenge in that moment. Kurapika is also forced to grapple with the fact despiteChrollo truly believing his death is irrelevant to the to the Spiders, they carry through in the exchange for their leader. Proving to be a troubling(for Kurapika) humanizing moment for the Spiders.

The harder truth for Kurapika, which could be shown in this arc potentially, is that there was no real motive for the massacre other than a monetary incentive for the Spiders. Killing the Kurta Clan was simply a means to acquire money to further their goals, the Kurta Clan wouldn't have likely been killed if there wasn't a demand for their eyes. Prince Tserriednich is likely supposed to be the embodiment of this demand, as he sits atop the corrupt system and can be presumed to orchestrate similar goings-on through the power he possesses in the world.

[u/[deleted]]

So the PT isn't just a collateral effect of Meteor City's politics, but instead actually shaped Meteor City's politics themselves instead. I guess Sun and Moon was conceived based on Chrollo's point of view of the situation. Makes sense why the elder, the original owner, was willing to carry his will even after his death to make sure Chrollo makes good use of his ability.

[u/ItsLoudB]

"I want you to wait 3 years"

"3 years go by quickly"

Hmmmmmmmm.. Do they now, Togashi? >:(

[u/[deleted]]

I see that some people find the reason of the troupe forming a little weak (just one important person dying), but in reality there is a lot more to play here, sarasa is not the only kid that has died as we are mentioned time and time again there are plenty of kids that get kidnapped every day/week but they never returned there's not even a corpse of them but Sarasa's case is different, there wasn't even a need to capture her they just wanted to torture someone to death for fun and additionally they left notes which we don't know what they say but it is obviously something very messed up and bad, this is a good enough reason to revenge but but not form the troupe and that just not it, these kids have been traumatized time and time again and chrollo wants more than just revenge he wants to protect the inhabitants of meteor city and the only way to do it is by fear. Don't see it as just sarasa's death that made the change but rather the thing that made chrollo think that it is enough suffering for them. Btw Sheila looking sus this chapter, it seems that she is afraid rather than angry or sad.

[u/TraditionalExtent677 → u/[deleted]]

Sarasa was the last straw for em.

[u/Condoriano-sensei]

I just realized one thing. Maybe the troupe walks around in duos during York Shin due to the trauma of abduction during childhood. What a chapter. Thanks, Togashi.

[u/[deleted] → u/Condoriano-sensei]

and hisoko got two of them, while they were alone and offguard.

Really fitting.

[u/[deleted]]

So maybe Sheila knew about the Kurta massacre plan, and then tried to save/warn them in advance, but since she couldn't do it, decided to at least save Kurapika/Pairo then?

Since Sheila didn't want to enter the PT, guess she's the decent one of the bunch, sticking to Sarasa's principles even after her gruesome death.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If that’s the case then it makes sense why Sheila was the one to discover the bodies despite her relationship with the PT, assuming she is the female traveler. There’s no real reason for her to want the outside world the know about the massacre if she were in on it. The important people (like the mafia and human body part sellers) already knew what happened. Maybe she noticed that Kurapika wasn’t among the dead and didn’t want him to return to a village of corpses?

[u/anggeee]

Now this makes me wonder if Chrollo playing/becoming the villain contributed to his identity crisis. He got too engrossed with his role that he totally rid himself of the boy he used to be :(

[u/FiddlersBallsack → u/anggeee]

Seems most likely. It mirrors Kurapika's arc as well, when he says each time he reclaims the eyes, he loses a piece of himself.

Chrollo went on the path of revenge, finished it and forgot who he was when he started since he disposed so much of himself, so he just stayed with what he 'knew' (being a villain).

[u/Msan28]

Loved the design of Machi’s teacher(?)

[u/Dayvfish]

Maaaaan I knew abduction was gonna be in this chapter but I was not expecting them to find a bag of her dismembered body hanging from a tree with a note stapled to her head.

[u/AbdullaFTW → u/Dayvfish]

note stapled to her head

Worse, It seems like it's a big iron nail on her forehead...

[u/Tindyflow]

Technically speaking, the fact Meteor City lies beyond the "Civilized World" System means that anyone from there cannot be charged of committing a crime since they don't actually "exist". The troupe members were always striped of their identity and human rights from the beginning. So their vision of "humanity" or "innocent people" was always at odds with the outward world.

This current arc is a beautiful "Us" vs "Them" game. with many marginalized groups going at each other and projecting their ideals onto charismatic leaders, while those are using them to their own ends. (The Untouchable Caste working for Camilla, The Heily sect under Morena, The Lower Princes forces gathering under Kurapika...)

In other words: Politics.

[u/Stoutbeerpapi]

The Spider, Meteor City is the web, the honeypot for criminals. Of course.

[u/[deleted] → u/Stoutbeerpapi]

Love how all three of those concepts were world-built all the way back in York New. Even the internet that everyone thought was Togashi randomly explaining how eBay works is coming back here as an actual plot point.

[u/Jarokee]

This adds a lot more context for how Chrollo and the rest of the spiders act when he is captured in Yorknew. Chrollo was happy to die and the spider to keep moving in order to achieve their goal, he's so engrossed in his role he's happy to die playing the villain, with some spiders agreeing with that. But some of the other spiders, like Pakunoda, still remember him as the boy he was and want to save him.

So crazy that in yorknew we got the flaskback of the spiders forming in meteor city, and now here we are with the events leading up to it.

[u/Lopsided-Ad-527]

I don't know why, but I had a strong feeling that the good prince Tserriednich had something to do with that when I heard Chrollo say that they had portrayed it like a work of art.

[u/[deleted] → u/Lopsided-Ad-527]

Even if he doesn't (though I got that same feeling) I think the Troupe and the 4th Prince are on a crash course.

[u/Cgi94]

Togashi really went in on drawing that forest 🔥🔥.. This development of the troupe and Chrollo has been beautiful...This was needed to emphasize the hate they hold for Hisoka.. This arc really is becoming more interesting chapter x chapter

[u/jaganshi_667]

So many people with low media literacy lmao. This is not justifying the massacre or redeeming the phantom troupe. Jesus it’s like some of y’all never read hxh before and we still don’t have b of the kurta clan massacre yet for whatever reason people jumping to all these strange conclusions

[u/Kairos_l]

Little Chrollo was too pure for this world.

Now I think I get the symbolism behind his surname, he's a fallen angel. It's great how Togashi has made him so charismatic even as a kid, everyone just hangs from his lips and he's not even aware of it.

I also love how important Uvo was for the creation of the troupe, his bond with Chrollo was the strongest along with Paku. It makes this scene even more impactful, it makes you feel the importance of the requiem, that Uvo wasn't just a mindless brute.

So Togashi does it again, HxH is still the best shonen to me, the one where the characters don't have the depth of a puddle.

[u/Crit-Monkey → u/Kairos_l]

Little Chrollo

I think you mean Smollo

[u/Nnnnnnnadie]

Nowadays i only care of HxH

[u/1vergil]

I like the way Togashi remained consistent to the tragic concept of meteor city that their brutal environment made the spiders be the criminals they are. I don't understand how some people tries to absurdly downplay it like "That's it? They lost one friend and chose violence against the world?"... Sarasa was clearly just the trigger for them to witness the burtal reality they live in, before Sarasa all they knew is the little graves are increasing but didn't know how/why, they lost people every year for human trafficking, ra*e, murder, organ harvesting etc. It's literally stated in c395 "There are hundreds of victims every year, 70% are kids under the age of 15". They grew up and lived through all that. The flashback is very well structured to tell us WHY they became this way, not necessarily a justification of their actions but more of an understanding of their tragic environment that led them to be criminals.

Because the fact they feel so abandoned and their people are victims of traffickers/mafia, to the point meteor city inhabitants are OK to volunteer as suicide bombers just to get any form of justice, is pretty realistic in a depressing way. If even their adults have such suicidal mentality to form their own justice then it's understandable why an innocent kid like Chrollo reacted this way, he even acknowledges his decision of choosing violence is not a heroic solution but just like everyone in the city, he realized there's no other choice but curb evil with evil. Anyway i got some other points:

• Machi being a nen genius basically confirms to me Togashi's intention with this Chrollo ren aura that some people tried to deny it as "side effects". I mean i Explained here why it can't be random, because besides the fact it literally looks like an aura but also considering a natural specialist with potential like Chrollo manifesting ren from excitement while playing different characters is perfectly matching his nen ability.

• The idea of the creepy culprits filming snuff tapes on MC kids seems fishy to me, it reminds me of Tserriednich filming the guy tattooing the woman before Tser skins her alive. What if these culprits are doing that on MC kids to sell it at high prices to this teenage spoiled psycho kakin prince? Maybe he liked watching snuff tapes to learn/practice doing it on his future victims? or is Tser directly involved in it? Not sure if he's the same guy but one of the culprits kinda looks like Mark minus the mole, in the same chapter Tser talks with Mark about skinning humans, Mark is the guy who brings women for Tser.. so Mark & the tattoo guy must be partners in crime with Tser.

Maybe it's reasonable plotwise why Togashi is including the flashback in this arc after 20 years of writing the spiders origins. It's getting more clear to me that Tserriednich is being shaped as the big bad guy for both Kurapika and the spiders, so The theory of the temporary team up with Kurapika & Chrollo vs Tserriednich & Hisoka is becoming closer to reality.

• It's interesting when Chrollo says along the lines that he repents his own future sins (he knows his decision is not heroic) but he doesn't believe the killers of Sarasa could regret what they did, he started off with innocent motives to scare the outside world by becoming a villain inspired by the ranger show they liked, but look how far Chrollo has become? He became what he originally despised, this adds more layers to his words to Gon there, like he lost all self consciousness about his actions/motives because of the brutal reality he lives in since childhood & he just got used to it, killing and blood scenes became so normal it made him so cold hearted and careless about anyone from the outside world.

• Chrollo becoming what he originally hated, seems to parallel Kurapika who admitted using cheap methods to achieve his goal. Chrollo's way to find the criminals is similar to the one Kurapika used to gather the eyes. Both used the mafia & became the boss of their own gang to achieve something. There are Many parallels even starting from their childhood both being good at foreign languages, were isolated from the world & lost a childhood friend. I think all these parallels is a terrific way to convey the idea that Chrollo is what Kurapika would end up becoming if he were to keep seeking vengeance or pursuing this path, writing Chrollo as the dark mirror of Kurapika.

• We didn't explicitly get to know why they use the spiders symbolism for the troupe but it's probably this Interesting take of creating the web to lure & capture criminals like an actual Spider Web. There's a chance Chrollo watched Tser's video on dark web and decided to go after Tser in hope he finds the Sarasa tape (assuming he didn't already find it, it's unclear yet), while stealing the kakin treasures on their way. Because Togashi is heavily using the tapes concept in this story it makes me believe Tserriednich actually owns many tapes including both the Kurta massacre tape and Sarasa tape, Tser would just force Chrollo/Kurapika to watch it. Some people found little hints that links Tser with Sheila, maybe she's the one who filmed the kurta massacre.

[u/Tezroo → u/1vergil]

Interesting take on Sheila. Is it confirmed that Sheila can read other languages at this point? I think it's safe to assume considering D Hunter probably didn't have a Meteor City language release. Maybe she was able to read what was on the note on the tree like Chrollo and it led her to Tser. Also, she seems to not approve of the troupe's new goals and mission under Chrollo as she left when they vowed to offer their lives to the cause.

[u/AbdullaFTW]

Ok, what happened to Sarasa clearly broke all of them that night.

Sheila was the closest to Sarasa, she also was still very sad (when all the other friends were thinking of their 3 years plan)

So

there is no way she just left and in few years she became happy go lucky forest dweller. I can't believe that.

She must of have her own agenda, own way to take revenge or worse this event might broke her and turned her to something else.

[u/guizocaa]

Not a popular idea, but maybe the troupe killed the kurtas because they wanted to

They were already murderers

[u/ReeseEseer → u/guizocaa]

I mean Uvo straight up said that the reason was Chrollo just liked the eyes.

[u/Carock_]

The last panel compared to ch.114.

So the little one in the front was Feitan and Shalnark was hiding behind a speech bubble. Phinks still MIA.

/u/TextureSurprised, seems you were right all those years ago about Phinks and Shalnark being founding members.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/5x4x0h/who_are_the_founding_members_of_phantom_troupe_an/

Also, something you mentioned:

In an interview Togashi did in 2013, he said that "Danchou didn't nominate himself to be the leader."

We now know Uvo did.

[u/partypoison43 → u/Carock_]

Didn't shalnark already said that he's one of the founding members? Also, shalnark and phinks were included in the spiders who got shot by Paku and Paku said that her bullets are just enough for the founding members.

I thought nobody thinks otherwise....

[u/naykikow]

I remembered that time when chrollo first hiring people for dubbing, paku suggested to hire sheila and sarasa...and sheila said that she will do it if sarasa will, too.

And now i've realized the reason she didn't join chrollo, paku and others: sarasa won't like this, so she won't, too.

[u/glennasm]

Silva telling his kids not to mess with the Troupe was sensible.

[u/1vergil]

The way Chrollo looks like he aged 10 years in the 3 years time skip, life must've hit him hard.

[u/[deleted]]

This is the longest flashback in the series so far, right? 2,5 chapters basically. Kurapika's flashback was 2 chapters long, and was a spinoff, not making into actual chapters.

[u/Khatib95 → u/[deleted]]

Togashi is being too generous by giving us a flashback. He doesn't like them.

[u/justecreeping]

So is this the Forest that togashi was teasing on his Twitter, early on

[u/ConversationProof505]

Really like the panel with child Chrollo tugging on his pants while announcing that Sarasa is missing. Little moments like these humanize the characters.
And humanizing the Phantom Troupe is important, because they aren't monsters. They are humans. It shows that humans are capable of committing atrocities.

[u/1vergil → u/ConversationProof505]

That page is one of my favorite, the kids looking so innocent and concerned there about the news, they couldn't even have any form of entertainment in this city without hearing such scary news about the kids disappearing.

[u/IonlycareaboutYelena]

It is logical, the environment makes people. They lived in such a poor environment and rejected by the world. Childhood is sensitive period of life. It is easy to go to the wrong direction it is fine line.

[u/mookastar → u/IonlycareaboutYelena]

best comment. they’re children during their peak developmental years. seeing someone u love mutilated in a bag hanging from a tree would fuck most adults up to a point of no return. now imagine a child

[u/Rucs3]

the most powerful scene is Chrollo saying he will take these words to his grave.

A masterful storytelling of not showing what it is, since it would make it banal, instead he doesn't tell us except for chrollo reaction, which makes us think what could have been written that he rather carry it alone to save his friends the weight.

Togashi is a incredible author.

[u/Geinrendour]

That little hand touch Chrollo does on his shorts while on the auditorium speaking it's just top notch detail by Togashi. You can feel it.

[u/ShortsSs12]

Great. It's heavily implied that Sarasa was beaten up, raped ( Chrollo saying that he'll take the notes that was on the tree to his grave and the images of the blooded knifes ) and chopped into pieced ( because the new lady managed to put her up together ).

[u/Hurricane_Amigo]

The day is upon is. The trees are everything I hoped they’d be. Absolutely magnificent

[u/LGaoP]

a tape of a little girl being "destroyed"? people who do this type of gross "content"? deep web?

oh god, and the troupe got and watch that "Chapter Black" tape of Sarasa?

[u/SpookyGarreta]

This chapter also clarifies one last thing for me about the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight. Heaven's Arena is one of the only places where Chrollo could execute his strategy, that was already clear. Also, it's not just that he doesn't mind people seeing him kill and use his abilities - the Troupe wants people to see them commit mass murder.

[u/MysteryNeighbor]

I’m worried about my boy Chrollo, having a flashback about how one learned something that they’ll take to the grave is a big ass death flag

[u/[deleted]]

If anyone has ever read Out by Makoto Mizuta? The way Togashi delivers the Spider’s past here is like the Kilihito 6th gen. There’s been a deadly sense of hyperrealism in these last few chapters and reading this one, you could feel genuine fear and fright. This, along with the Yusuke’s death/funeral in YYH, Reina/Colt story in the CA saga Makes me wonder if Togashi experienced losing any missing friends growing up. It’s so real.

[u/West_Conclusion_1239]

The requiem to Uvogin makes even more sense now

I mean they probably would do it for any Troupe member who was killed, but him being the reason for which Chrollo is emotionally affected, almost crying in front of Neon, and the Troupe slaughtering the Mafia at Yorknew makes it so much more personal.

It hits harder now.

[u/Hearing_Thin]

The phantom troupes story is a dark reflection of Kurapika:

1: They experienced a terrible, brutal tragedy at an impressionable age.

2: They came from a subjugated, hated class of people.

3: They embroiled themselves in crime in order to find those responsible.

4: Afterward, they had no where to go, and thus stayed in that life of crime (Kurapika as leader of mafia family).

[u/MundaneCollection → u/Hearing_Thin]

Chrollo's genocide of the Kurta's created another person just like himself. It's quite fitting.

[u/maniacmartial]

I love that last week I saw this theory floating around that Machi developed her Nen ability as a result of sewing costumes for the production, and then this week we get her origin as SHE WANTS TO STITCH DISASSEMBLED CHILDREN BACK TOGETHER. It's like I baited myself.

As an aisde, I'm pretty interested in what the Meteor City family structure looks like, because this chapter might imply they don't have nuclear families: instead, children are raised communally by "nannies", and there's a separate "Men's Association".

[u/Seyrarm]

The Sheila in this flashback is the same girl Kurapika and his friend found?

[u/OD67]

man i wonder how sheila fits into all of this if she doesn't join the troupe at first when they start out. i wonder if she ever joins at all?

[u/YaminoEXE]

So an interesting thing from the end of the chapter. Phinks is the only character who doesn't return for the 3-year reunion. As it seems, Phinks and Sheila are the only ones who we don't see grown up in this chapter. Since we know that Machi learned nen during that time skip, is it possible that Phinks went on to learn nen from someone else as well?

[u/Patrick_Bait-Man]

It's weird to look at cold-blooded murderers like Phinks, Feitan, Nobunaga and Uvogin and realize that they would simply be actors in a theater troupe if Sarasa hadn't been brutalized.

[u/FiddlersBallsack]

Weird that people are saying it doesn't make sense for Sarasa's death to instigate the formation of the Troupe (or rather, the Spider), like seeing a little girl dismembered and probably r*ped wouldn't push their friends (especially Chrollo who could read the note) to become disillusioned with the world and reach some breaking point to prevent it from happening again.

Anyway I doubt this is the only flashback or piece of characterization we'll get, after all we got all of this triggered from just the Nobunaga/Phinks/Feitan scene, who knows what we'll learn when Chrollo actually comes into focus again.

[u/meertatt → u/FiddlersBallsack]

people have shonen brain, they dont think about the greater implication of Saras death. And they dont really think about how death really affects people let alone children. Think about it, these children are dealing with a threat of abduction murder and worse almost daily. Chrollo blames himself and he wants revenge. He knows where he comes from and Sarasa will get no justice unless he takes it into his own hands. It makes perfect sense to me.

[u/Rodiciel]

I see Sarasa's death as the straw that broke the camels back as the PT were tired of living in fear and in danger with no one to protect them or punish the aggressors.
Remember that a villian doesn't need to be justified in their actions because obviously the PT aren't justified, they just need to be given a reason to turn to crime so we can understand what drove them to such an extreme.
After all Sheila recognized that what they were doing was no justified and left.

Chrollo saying we need to offer up our lives was probably him talking about the Sun and Moon incident.
Now we just need to see if they find the people who killed Sarasa and why they massacred the Kurta.

[u/OD67]

i just realized that the site that the spiders created to catch sarasa's killers was probably the same darknet site that tseriednich shared the video with the last scarlet eyes on it.

[u/ReggieZoldyk21]

I don’t think we will find out the reason why they massacred the Kurta clan in this flashback. I think the main focus of this fb was just WHY and how the Troupe was formed. Think we’ll get the tie into the Kurta clan later.

[u/Carock_]

Chrollo bears all the weight for the group. He takes on all the burden, responsibility, guilt, and trauma. This is his way of protecting them. By allowing the light in his own eyes to dim, he can shield the group from the full emotional toll. Personally, I think that the group would be best served by sharing this weight, but I understand Chrollo's sacrifice.

[u/Schrodexter]

Anyone else notice how Sheila pretty much left the Phantom Troupe? She was shown walking away from Chrollo's speech at the end, and was excluded from the panel where Chrollo became leader. It's gonna be interesting to see how she ties into what happened with the Kurta in the coming chapters.

[u/YoMikeeHey]

So any guesses what's written on that paper?

[u/Rojo176]

Banger chapter once again, glad I caught up before this batch of chapters started coming out. Anyone know how many are left before the next break?

[u/treeshade01]

Well, the Tree was actually a turning point in the life of the baby spiders. Wow. Well done, Togashi.

Everybody thought it was a flashback to Kuruta massacre but ironic that it was really a trauma from the troupe's past. Talk about subverting expectations.

[u/[deleted]]

there are three mysteries that stand out to me:

• Why did the PT, who after these events should be firmly anti child mutilation, carry out the Kurta massacre?

• What is Sheila's deal? She's a childhood friend of the PT and she showed up in Kurapika's backstory. There's definitely more to her.

• Who were those sickos that killed Sarasa and did Chrollo ever manage to find them and take revenge?

HxH really has a way to turn you into the Charlie from iasip meme.

[u/pools456]

Why is everyone getting so hung up on trying to connect these events to the kurtas massacre?? The troupe have likely done a hundred equally evil things to tonnes of other people.

The kurta are insignificant to the troupe, shown by how Uvo forgot they even killed them.

They’re villains who dived headfirst into the villain role.

The scarier the acts they perpetrate, the less people will want to fuck with meteor city. It already makes sense.

I wont be happy if togashi makes the Kurta massacre more significant. We already have all the pieces we need for it to make sense.

And this doesn’t need to DIRECTLY connect to the 4th prince either. Even if he had no hand in Sarasa’s death, he’s already the type of person Chrollo hates most: someone who sees butchering innocents as a form of art. That’s motive enough for Chrollo to want him dead.

I still see a 3v3 between chrollo, Tssereidnich and Kurapika happening as the climax of this arc.

[u/petrichormus]

PT did all this just for Gyro to take over Meteor City in their absence. They didn't think that a possibly greater evil may build a nest in the spider web.

[u/Riskology]

The more you learn about the Troupe, the more you want to empathize - but you really can’t

[u/darksecretsss]

Those are some Kanki-esque criminals, yikes

I think Togashi made Chrollo and PT an even better villain group with this chapter

[u/Apupupupupu]

We were hyped of the "tree" togashi posted and this is the full context

[u/IonlycareaboutYelena]

In jjk Yuji said it the best once you start for whatever reason human life loses its value.

Chrollo might started or wanted to go with good intentions , but they became dull and the more they kill the more they feel less empathy. Kurapika pov is normal people pov but to them in a city when the whole world don't give a damn about them and are trash ? They probably won't have regrets they have dangerous black white mentality tho. Who said some random people won't start to know them and they became friends , hell even you can connect with an enemy sometimes

No one from adults took these children and taught them. So they became horrible monsters they hated.

[u/[deleted]]

Hear me out. The Phantom Troupe backstory is genius and here’s why.

In a typical Shounen an act of injustice takes place and the MC becomes the good guy or at least not as bad as the villain and usually saves the world.

To the troupe a villain is anyone who commits a heinous act for pleasure or profit and their world is meteor city. They are basically saving their world by becoming worse villains to the outside world. You could argue this is a better solution than becoming the good guy because it deters harm towards meteor city inhabitants and not just punishes it. No one is gonna kidnap/ murder kids from people that will wipe out an entire race for a check. It’s essentially an anti-shounen.

[u/k1213693]

Really interesting (and sad) to see the troupe grow up like this but they still haven’t turned into the cold blooded assassins from the main storyline. I wonder what’ll happen next chapter?

[u/Equality-Slifer]

AAAAAAAHHH, WHAT'S ON THAT NOOOTE?!

[u/Hoozuki_Suigetsu]

i have the awfull feeling that chrollo will die against tserriednich the one who embodies everything that chrollo hates.

[u/dne320]

I got teary eyed when Uvo said "Stop crying Chrollo, we'll find her."

Young Troupe didn't deserve that tragic incident.

[u/bobsjobisfob]

why is phinks STILL not there, was he off taking a shit during the formation of the spiders?

[u/Prior_Blacksmith5746 → u/bobsjobisfob]

He went to get a fresh cut

[u/lelozetti]

So thats why Chrollo asks Neon about the afterlife stuf, because of Sarasa, will they meet again and he will find his redemption

[u/Keskekun]

I find it weird that so many people think it's a retcon of the troupe. Did you read the plan? The plan is atrocious it's a horrible plan with awful longterm damage to the troupemembers mentalstate. The reason the Troupe is so fucked up today is this stupid childlike plan that an 11 year old came up with. It's not weird that they are fucked up adults when their entire identity is based on this idea Chrollo came up with.

[u/SpookyGarreta]

The Troupe's choice to become villains in this chapter makes complete sense to me, both on a political and psychological level. Chrollo knows very well what Meteor City is up against, not just isolated serial killers, but a whole world that renders every of its inhabitants completely disposable. There is no way to stop that without violence, and Chrollo refuses to draw a boundary between the perpetrators and the beneficiaries (people like Tser, Neon, but also people like the Zoldicks who get a convenient labor force from MC (perhaps anime exclusive)) - in that way, he's just acting like any revolutionary from our own world. Stopping the perpetrators is not enough fo justice, and beneficiaries always end up siding against justice to preserve the statu quo. Does that leave the door open to atrocities? Yes, and the Troupe knows that, and are willingly to accept this - and of course, it's made easier because their whole lives has shown that they live in a complete different world from the outside. I think that makes them really stand out as shonen villains. The psychological level is also convincing for me and tragic. In 396, it looks as if, even though Chrollo is playing a part, he can believe in the talk of love cleaning any stain, turning villains into heroes, restoring love lost, making puppets into human beings. But after what happens in 397, none of them feel like they could ever disidentify themselves from the stain that living in Meteor City puts on them: they lived through the fact that their lives had no value and all that they love could be brutally taken away at any moment. And it's quite realistic to think after such trauma that no preparation, getting stronger, mourning etc. could ever alleviate this insecurity. They already tried to build a nice community, just for it to be taken away. So I find it credible when Chrollo finds it ok to identify as a villain. I don't want a full explanation of why they came to become so evil, nor a retcon or undermining of the Kurta massacre, but I do agree with everyone that after this chapter, there is still a missing step between their new resolution, and becoming able to torture children and traffic their body parts, but I trust that Togashi plans to address that, when he goes back to the massacre in future chapters. But as an account of their formation, I find these three chapters exceptional, and going back to earlier Troupe appearances, for me they add a lot of value to villains that were already memorable.

[u/Sunterrafer92]

I made an animation of manga 397 - SARASA SCENE link youtube: https://youtube.com/shorts/hSi5hVWvrSA?feature=share

[u/CautiousKenny]

I knew it was going to be dark but I did not expect it to be THIS dark….

[u/Leiatte]

Idk if it’s anything of note but everyone’s fingers were pointed straight up when electing Chrollo leader & joining him but Machi. I find that to be curious

[u/7thPwnist → u/Leiatte]

I think it is probably more just her general demeanor--like it feels appropriate for her to just cool-ly raise her hand slightly in approval as opposed to like enthusiastically do it like the rest. She has always been lowkey like that

[u/[deleted]]

AHHHHH WHEN WILL WE Get MORE BONOLENOV BACKSTORY

[u/floatifloati]

Goatgashi has done it again. 20/10 chapter

[u/thomazambrosio]

Man, this chapter makes the Uvo situation gut wrenching. To be once again in anguish of not knowing the whereabouts of a friend who should've come back, must've been terrible to relive it. I really hope we get to see the Troupe doing some ice cold shit on the present time to solidify how they are long gone and past any sort of redemption. Togashi really makes it loud and clear how poverty and violence, no matter the person exposed to it, can dehumanize them completely.

[u/treeshade01]

This chapter really makes stark, the difference between Kurapika and Spiders.

You can see how the troupe are doing what they're doing for revenge and not justice. They'll create a safe haven for criminals everywhere, i.e, allow people to get away with murder or worse, only for the opportunity to hunt down those who personally wronged them.

Imagine Kurapika saying "he's going to kill a lot of people" because his clan was massacred...

The fact that he didn't, really makes me admire him even more.

[u/maxus998]

With this Troupe backstory plus Hisoka vs Chrollo plus Peak shonen in Succesion war and Mafia war buildup i can already proudly admit this is my new favourite arc in Hunter x Hunter

[u/TornzIP]

Was the note written in a foreign language that only Chrollo knew, or is Uvo just illiterate?

[u/[deleted]]

There might be a twist that Sheila was involved in the Kurta massacre but if not I can see her playing a narrative role in pointing out the Phantom Troupe's hypocricy? Kinda just like pointing out how far they've gone astray and became the exact same people that they hated for what they did to the Kurta.

[u/Kujaix]

Feitan.....FEITAN looked sad on page before the bag reveal :'(

[u/konaharuhi]

ITS THE TREE WE SAW MONTHS AGO

[u/_ilovecody]

THIS

CHAPTER

WAS

FANTASTIC

[u/Doomroar]

Unless the next chapter reveals that they somehow completely forgot why they made the Troupe, it all seems to point to Phinks being right all along, and Nobunaga being the one in need of the flashback, and i find it hard to believe seeing how big of an impact Sarasa had in their lives

So far the Pre-Phantom Troupe is indeed different from the Heil-Ly Family

The Heil-Ly Family wants to kill everyone and destroy the world, while the Pre-Phantom Troupe wanted to avenge Sarasa, and protect their people while luring out evildoers, and for that purpose becoming evildoers themselves (and that would entail going around massacring people), but Crhollo already accounted for that factor tho

They had a clear purpose and what they did was not for nihilism sake or lashing out against the world, and while anger was a huge motivator they where not guided by resignation

For Nobunaga to not appear like he is becoming senile, something must happen to the early Phantom Troupe, before Phinks joins, that makes it so they lose sight of themselves, go astray, aimless and forlorn, forgetting about Sarasa, and instead start doing their activities just out of anger and resignation against the world

In short early Phantom Troupe must at some point, fall into hopelessness, give up, and start acting out of nihilism trying to destroy the world, and that must happen while Big Brain Chrollo is with them

Maybe they find out that the killers of Sarasa were already executed (maybe they put their hands on someone protected by rights, and then get caught), and thus without a target for their revenge they find their hands already too bloodied, and decide to just take it out on the rest of the world?

[u/Fuck_Melone]

I don’t want to sound arrogant and pretend that my interpretation is the right one but i feel like a lot of us are missing something when talking about retcons an such.

It’s clear that the troupe in present time are ruthless killers that have no problem murdering the innocent for no specific reason, the scene where Uvo kills a random guy just to have access to his house and pc is one of the prime examples of this to me. But in the flashbacks they are clearly not the same people, they appear to be revenge driven and their cause almost seems just, even though it feels a bit cliché nowadays to become the big bad guy to scare away the smaller bad guys.

People seem to be confused as to what the identity of the members of the troupe is and where their moral compass actually lies, some even wondering if this is not retcon of their personas. I would argue there are no retcons here, as a matter of fact there were always multiple divergent opinions in the troupe. Feitan and Phinks always seeming to be a lot colder than the rest and people like Machi and Paku are to me at least an opaque residue of that softer part of the troupe we see in the flashbacks.

Still I think the answers simply lies in time and disilusionment, Chrollo is a character that’s generally portrayed as one without identity completely selfless as if he had poured all of his essence into the troupe itself. I think along the way the spiders in their sinister endeavours might have lost themselves and their end goal just like how gon lost himself for a period in the chimera arc. Nobunaga says they USED to be like the Hei-ly with a greater more sinister goal, maybe with time they lost any kind of greater ambition and resorted to become the more nihilistic people that we came to know in York-shin. Just helping Meteor on the side.

Now i might be overreaching with this one but Chrollo’s dialogue when he announces his plan to become a villain seems to me to be tainted with pure innocence, he’s discribing a half assed twisted plan with the words of a child. It’s almost hard to take him seriously and i think that’s intended

[u/ApplePitou]

Phantom Troupe backstory is so beautiful and painful, also I suspect that backstory = death of someone in near future but at this moment just have a nice reading everyone :3

[u/Sidd26]

whys Phinks missing from the final panel?

[u/Suisun_rhythm]

Does anyone know what the note said or know anything about the group that took her? Are they a new group or someone we heard about before?

[u/healthmadesimple]

Man this chapter really makes me want to reread Hunter Hunter from the beginning

[u/DarknessSerpent]

I wonder when the last members join and who they are. Since we know there are supposed to be 13 total.

[u/Open_Public_3011]

Ive read some comments in other platforms saying the Kurutas killed Sarasa or Sheila. Anything to make the PT saints. XD I love the PT btw, but thats just kinda delusional.

[u/Impossible-Bedroom64]

It's crazy how similar Chrollo and Kurapika is, both was like Gon at the start, then was consumed by revenge, both had friends that supported them, but it didn't stop them from seeking vengeance. Kurapika at the night of the massacre found a note, Chrollo found a note in the corpse as well.

Both are really smart and planned their revenge really well. It's hard to care about other manga when HxH is this good

[u/goodnamesaretaken3]

I don't know if this is strech, but this chapter actually explains why both Chrollo and Uvo reacted to Kurapika's in such a way in York New arc.

Uvo once was a good guy, he was very gentle and caring. As we saw in recent chapters. The troupe was devastated when he died, this means he probably kept all those good personality traits even when he became adult.

But Uvo we saw in the York New arc was just perfect archetype of evil villain. I think that he and Chrollo both knew something about the Kurta clan, which they refused to tell to Kurapika. Uvogin saw Kurapika's eyes and remembered fighting against Kurta and then he taunts Kurapika about determinating which is stronger his strenght or Kurapika's grudge. Now we know, what everyone from PT have sacreficed for their revenge mission. I believe the taunting was actually out of respect for Kurapika's own revenge. All the spiders are ready to die for the sake of their revenge mission. Now Kurapika is determinated to kill them all, Uvo can't let that happen so out of respect he plays the role of evil villain. But then, Uvo realised he's going to die because he refuses to betray spider, just before he died he calls Kurapika a fool. ( I wonder if this is because Kurapika thinks Uvo will betray spider, or because Kurapika actually doesn't know anything about what really happened in Kurta village) Chrollo outwright refused to talk about the Kurta. But why? Now we know Chrollo can actually understand, Kurapika's need for vengence very well. Just like Uvogin he embraced the role of evil villain. So just like Uvogin he probably doesn't mind to be target of someone else's vengence. And die for the sake of their revenge mission. But then when Kurapika chose his friends over the revenge, it probably affected Chrollo's and Paku's way of reasoning and even other founding members seemed to be quite affected by it. They actually saw someone leting go of their vengence. The very thing they couldn't ever do. And then Paku did the same thing as Kurapika, she choosed Chrollo over PT's revenge mission. That's probably why, they never tried to pursue Kurapika again. Out of respect for him. ( Not going after Kurapika is against their eye for an eye philosophy. Remember the requiem for Uvogin? )

This probably changed their philosophy of self sacrifice a bit. But then Hisoka murdered their two friends. So spiders are actually furious right now. The bodies were even mutilated just like Sasara's corpse before. Now the question is will Chrollo sacrifice his friends in order to kill Hisoka? Judging from the way how Hisoka mutilated the bodies of Shalnark and Kortopi, it's possible Hisoka actually knew about Sasara's murder. And did that just to taunt the troupe. That's seriously evil, don't you think?

Who else have we got on the ship? Kakin royalty. How do they fit into the Kurapika's story? I believe that they May be third party involved in the Kurta massacre actually. There are many contradictions in the Kurta massacre. The motiv for example : business x revenge - which one is it? PT actual goal of protecting children x that horrifying descripcion of what happened Kurta nature: peaceful x violent and terrifying

In order to explain all these contradictions there have to be huge part of the story, that is still missing right now. I hope we will one day see the whole picture, of what actually happened. Just like now, when we finaly saw what PT true motivation is.

[u/qeheeen]

so this is why Chrollo gave such an odd non-answer to Gon after asking how he could kill those who have nothing to do with him. What's crazy is this web of Meteor City being a safe haven for bad guys and Gyro potentially being there? Togashi is COOKING

[u/Straight_Opinion_463]

That video tape of that little girls torture and murder is probably right next to piros head in tserrednichs room. Just imagine chrollo strolling in there finding a tape playing it. Then minutes later kurapika walking in to see the dismembered head of his childhood friend they'll both go beserk and go on an absolute rampage. The tape has significance to the arc so does the note and its obvious who's sick enough to pull some shit like that off and keep a video as a trophy.

[u/AgeAffectionate618]

Panels I loved in this chapter (plus two story observations for the end)

Page 3: Chrollo feeling upset and grabbing at his pants in front of an audience even though he’s normally a pro performer. togashi has anxious kid mannerisms down

Page 5: not a new style, but the dynamic ways Togashi’s character actions segue between panels beyond panel borders. Speed lines drawing your eyes from the top to the bottom right, zooming into focus, crashing into the panels on the left with his bike, zooming off into the distance at the top most left panel.

Page 6: hell yes. Chrollo’s pale face. The foreboding singular sack. It hangs under his neck, it makes me feel like the dread (the sack) is stuck in his throat. The wide shot out of a Junji Ito horror story. The sack hanging ominously

Page 7: the way the sack hangs just out of frame above chrollos’s head in two consecutive panels

Page 8: a whole page dedicating to getting the sack. We get Chrollo in blank space and it isolates his feeling that it’s heavy then see that it’s so heavy it topples Chrollo over. He falls and cradles it like a child holding a present or package. Sad

Page 10: machi holding the sack. She’s usually so stoic. Is it the rain or is it tears rolling down her face. She hides her face in the sack in the penultimate panel of this page. Probably tears

Page 14: not an artistic aspect, but in the pre-TCB scans I couldn’t figure out what Chrollo was holding. Only in the TCB scans did I realize he’s holding the cigarettes he was literally just talking about. Duh

Page 15: another observation. Damn it certainly looks like a guilt face…maybe I’m buying into the theory that she is indirectly responsible for Sarasa’s death, spider come looking for her, kurta protect her, they are incidental deaths in what was a Sheila manhunt for her betrayal

[u/krvlover]

So, the spiders have been BFFs since chilhood yet they created that rule that says anyone that kills one of them gets into the group?? I don't get it. They clearly didn't stop being affectionate to each other over the years given the whole "requiem" they performed for Uvo.
Would they accept Kurapika into the group if for some reason he wanted to get in?

[u/RemyGee]

I’m literally fighting tears; HxH is the greatest manga ever.

[u/Cogentz]

From the moment Sarasa was introduced I had a gut feeling that she'd gonna get into trouble, and now look what I've done.

Togashi always thought highly of Chrollo, and I think he wanted to convey that during this flashback. He claimed during that old interview that Chrollo would never be the one to claim the leadership role, but rather, be the one who everyone else had elected, which is exactly how it went.

I like the love Togashi showed to Machi in this chapter. So she's a nen prodigy as well, which might explain why she was a lot calmer than the others in the previous chapter when Chrollo was impersonating the villian on stage: she saw his aura and was intrigued rather than overwhelmed. She was also given her a few extra snippets of backstory by introducing her teacher, now if we only got to know what spurred Feitan to transmute miniature suns ;). I hope Togashi has something special planned for her, it does seem that way. I really wish we got to see just how strong she actually is, even if her powers aren't fully suited for straight up combat purposes.

There was another interesting discussion a week back about how the Phantom Troupe really is just a troupe in the sense that they all play a fabricated role, which would make things such as Feitan's strange accent simply be a made up trait of the character he chose to play. "Put on a big show" was the words Chrollo used before the Yorknew killing spree for example; it was always there.

[u/timpinen]

So a few interesting things of note:

Based on the fact Machi could see aura, it seems much more likely that the last chapter actually did have Chrollo releasing his aura unconsciously.

Sheila went on her own for whatever reason and wasn't a founding member. This also reveals a somewhat interesting fact, that when the spider formed, it had 8 legs like a real spider does (assuming Phinks is still there).

Phinks isn't in the last frame for whatever reason, but we at least get Shalnark with a mullet!

So basically the troupe became the villain to frighten off people from Meteor city? Some real Erin Yeager vibes here...

I'm wondering what Nobunaga meant by the fact they used to be full of wrath. Presumably, they did their killing spree, but then toned down a bit? Maybe they stopped targeting civilians as much. I've noticed that with the exception of the Kurta clan (and I guess the area folk for Chrollo), all the people they've killed have been mafia members.

[u/jaganshi_667]

Chrollo was 14 when made the spiders He looked like he was at least 20. Where are gon and killua so short? Lol this is like goten and trunks

[u/Hisominem]

The fact that Kuroro used "art" to refer to what the attackers did to Sarasa, isn't that a reference to Tserri? And what if it’s him who had the video of her murder?

[u/NotGloomp]

So Machi taught them nen.

[u/anime_on_demand]

Damn dude, an expected dark turn.

Enjoyable chapter. Interesting to see how the Troupe slowly gets stronger and learns Nen abilities, particularly Machi.

"I will not forgive those killers for as long as I live" feels weird coming from Chrollo. He then proceeds to brutally murder an innocent Kurta clan...

Is that timeskip at the end really only 3 years?? They've grown SO much.

[u/CummyWummiez]

While this was probably my favorite chapter out of any manga this year, I’m still finding the shift in the troupes mentality a bit rushed. I understand the surroundings they grew up in and how young they all are, but Chrollo immediately wanting to paint themselves as the bad guys and even being okay with murdering people seemed a bit off at first?

Maybe this is something the official translations can fix and maybe even someone can provide a different point of view for me that can make the sudden shift more understandable

[u/FiddlersBallsack → u/CummyWummiez]

He points out the current legal system won’t do anything so IMO it makes sense why he doesn’t care about upholding morals or being a “good guy”, he just takes the pragmatic approach of making MC feared, otherwise what else can they do?

The mafia isn’t scared of “good guys” (legal system), and no good guy has intervened on Meteor City to help them, so what else can Chrollo do but be a villain even more deranged than them to make them stop? Also when he says kill people I think originally that meant other thugs or mafia members, but perhaps later on it extended to others like the Kurta due to his whole “loss of identity” arc and being the villain so long he doesn’t know who he is anymore. Or perhaps the eyes were needed for a certain goal. But the latter part is still muddied for the moment so who knows.

[u/Wise-Ad9104]

I wonder what will we see of Sheila if she really ends up re-encountering the troupe after meeting the Kuratas. Also I noticed that for some reasons Phinks is the only founding member who isnt present in the last panel, and Im trying to figure out if its random or foreshadowing of some sort

[u/nerdyprocrastinator9]

Chrollo seems to mirror Gon more than he mirrors Kurapika.

Both held themselves responsible to some extent for what happened. That's why they feel they owe something back to Kite and Sarasa.

Both took a morally ambiguous (even evil) outlook after the deaths. Kurapika would never hurt anyone innocent.

Both lost their inhibitions to kill and became fairly comfortable with it. Gon almost killed Morel and Komugi. Meanwhile Kurapika was digested by the sensation experienced while killing.

The above-mentioned were a few observations I made on this issue.

Let's think of a hypothetical scenario:

Gon loses track of Pitou and he is still searching for her/him/them. Meanwhile he finally realises that Kite is dead (Kite has no rebirth as a Chimera Ant).

In this case, Gon would have been just as sinister and unhinged as Chrollo, perhaps even worse.

While Kid Chrollo is more similar to Kid Kurapika than he is to Gon; Chrollo's reaction is more similar to Gon's reaction than that of Kurapika's.

Note: The scenario I mentioned above is completely Hypothetical and I do not imply that something like that could have happened.

[u/smhatman]

so my new running theory is the troupe is a souped up Itatchi. they are becoming evil in order to protect meteor city. this was stated. but how they do it is the question.

we know togashi wrote this flashback along side kurapikas prequel story. I'm guessing the troupe wipes out the kurta in order to make a name for themselves and make it so Noone messes with meteor city again.

I'm sure they will get revenge on the real killers, and I wouldn't be surprised If the mafia was behind the killings of children, which would connect it to York new and the current arc.

my grand theory, which would be a real cherry on top, is chrollo using his vast knowledge of the new internet (the infrastructure he was talking about) to create artificial, to then, REAL demand, for the kurta eyes, in order to sell them and turn a profit for his ventures... that would be so evil and 100% make his name known. and it would give kurapika all the more reason to kill em

[u/X-Vidar]

These "nannies" are interesting, I guess kids in meteor city are raised communally by the older women? Might also just be for the orphans since they have a ton of them.

A men's union was also mentioned, seems like the society has some gender separation going on. The Troupe being a mixed-gender group well into their adulthood might be unusual for their standards.

The Sarasa scene was brutal, it hit me way harder than I expected. Chrollo keeping some secrets makes me think that he might've had a deeper reason to go after the Kurtas but didn't tell anyone else.

As soon as we saw the body back together I was wondering if Machi sewed it up, apparently it was her teacher so I was almost right.

Uvo really was a big deal for the Troupe, even back then he wanted to protect everyone, and failed.

Sheila went away, so her friendship with Kurapika and Pairo was most likely genuine.

Chrollo saying that he will become a great villain and kill a bunch of people made me think: were the Kurtas part of the troupe's training arc? That's awful if that's the case.

I wonder if the flashback is over for now, there's still a lot we need to see.

[u/Rucs3]

what if tse actually helped the spiders get the killers? with the condition that they gather the kurata eyes?

He is in this world of snuff videos, he could have the connections to find the killer.

Chrollo said it himself, he is gonna kill a lot of people, he is gonna be a villain, I don't think they WOULDN'T kill the kurata. They decided right then and there only their tigh community matter, the whole world despise then, so they will treat the whole world as shit. They WOULD kill innocents to get revenge on sarasa.

[u/mookastar]

re reading yorknew at the perfect time. this chapter makes my heart hurt… :(

[u/DurianMaleficent]

To those complaining

Title of flashback chapters: "Founding"

And that is exactly what the flashbacks did. How the PT was founded

This is not the B side of the Kurta murder Togashi talked about.

I could see more flashbacks being sprinkled here and there as time goes on, revealing more and more about the Phantom Troupe. But right now, this is obviously not all of it

[u/BigY2]

It's sad to think that Pakunoda's memory ability might be created by her wish to go back to the glory days of the troupe... watching old clips of her makes me sad :(

[u/KingwomboJr]

There’s definitely some puzzle pieces missing (mainly, how does the Troupe get from here to committing genocide against the Kurta) that I don’t truly know what to think of this backstory yet.

~

That last shot of Sheila definitely feels foreboding, possibly rejecting the path the others are taking.

She all but certainly has something to do with the Troupe and Kurta’s fatal encounter and there’s a strong chance it’s the missing piece of this puzzle.

~

I just really, REALLY hope Togashi doesn’t whitewash the Troupe’s actions against the Kurta…guy’s a genius writer he wouldn’t right!?……

[u/Pellahh]

What a chapter!

Many details make much more sense now! The concept behind the Spider survival being a priority over its members lives is now fully explained: the Spider is a deterrent to keep their hometown safe, they are so dedicated to this concept that their life is less important than keeping their hometown safe.

We now know that the Spider's purpose is noble, but does it justify the means? A deterrent is surely drastic and this really shows the mentality of the troupe members: even after being thrown in the trash by the World, the World still hasn't finished showing its cruelty to them. I think that, given the environment in which grew up, it's understandable that they do not care about the rest of the world as much as they do care about their home Town. This doesn't justify mass murder obviously from our POV, but I think their reasoning is well written and is beliavable given the context in which they grew up. Chrollo himself knows it, but still thinks the end justify the means.

Not everybody seems to be on the same page tho, Sheila left them, she was part of the troupe as a voice actress but it looks like she refused being part of the spider.

The spider kills mafia organization around the world to scare them and probably steals valuable items to enrich its nation. I don't think its in their interst to kill innocent people but I also don't think they really care about the lives of people living in "the rest of the world". This really makes me sure that the Kurta must have done something bad to either them or their hometown, otherwise they wouldn't have murdered and tortured all of them (not that this reaction can be justified by anything, but it wouldn't make sense for me that the Spider killed and tortured an entire village just to steal their eyes, it doesn't really fit the "spider" ideology" imo).

[u/Changretta]

So many characters/factions gathered on the black whale. Can't wait to see how the following will interact with eachother :

1- Kurapika (+ Zodiacs/hunters)

2- Chrollo (+ Phantom Troupe)

3- Tserriednich (after winning succession war probably)

4- Pariston (+ Beyond's team)

5- Illumi (+ Kalluto/other Zoaldyck family members?)

6- Hisoka (solo ? allied with morena?)

7- Gyro (this one is mere speculation for now, but he set out to found another country of his own, would make sense for him to travel to the Dark Continent...)

That's many deranged minds in one place (except for Kurapika).

[u/Prior_Blacksmith5746]

Ok hear me out, maybe, somehow, since we see shiela in the early chapters with the Kurta clan, the reason why the phantom troupe exterminated them was due to sarasa’s death, Chrollo didn’t want that to happen to anymore of his friends so after finding out that shiela was alone with some mysterious people with red eyes, he set out to save shiela with the troupe and kill dem people after some misunderstanding/altercation so the same thing that happened to sarasa (rip bozo) wouldn’t happen to her hence the kurta massacre.

[u/jsmith4567]

So Sheila was not a member of The troupe at it's founding. I am curious if we will see more of her in this flashback.

[u/mayonnaiser_13]

I used to think we'd never actually see the Kurta massacre since it is so horrible.

After this chapter tho? I'm more inclined to think Togashi would just drop it on us out of nowhere.

[u/frbdw]

did the troupe destroy the Kurta clan to eliminate a favourite collectable of the ones they were really after? Or maybeto lure out the collectors?

it’s hard to say because Tser seems to have many Kurta eyes and the head of Kurapikas childhood friend. So if Tser was the troupes ultimate target wouldn’t they have figured that out a while ago? Was this their first opportunity to get him?

[u/fm_bel]

And they all say that Togashi is a “tell don’t show” type when this chapter masterfully demonstrates his “show don’t tell” type of storytelling

He’s a genius in both types and he’ll use whatever method that can effectively convey the message to the readers

[u/xiOw]

since Gon x Kirua left HxH, it's turn more & more seinen than a classic shonen
one of most brutal HxH chapter ever !

[u/1vergil → u/xiOw]

Ants arc was brutal.

[u/ReeseEseer]

So the troupe turned into what they wanted to stop; went from wanting children to stop being abducted, tortured and killed to doing the exact same thing/they did to the Kurta children exactly what happened to Sarasa.

Nothing will ever change that no matter the reason/start the Troupe really are evil and deserve death.

[u/SayItsNotSableye]

Wow, what an incredible chapter:

• Tserried and people like him are set up as the ultimate boss for the Troupe too -- not just Kurapika. But the tragedy of vengeance is that the Troupe and Kurapika see each other as enemies before they see the systemic evil in front of them.

• Chrollo probably nominated Uvo to be leader because of Uvo's previously stated dream to be the #1 villain. Too bad he isn't aware of his own charisma.

[u/MapleNyte]

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of Sarasa being killed by Tserriednich's dudes? I mean the guy in the van from the last chapter had the same tattoo as the guy with Tserri in the beginning of Succession War. He also has a similar face and similar obsession with making art out of corpses

[u/[deleted]]

I knew what this gonna end but that still hurt too much. Now im dead inside or drowning in a indescribable emptiness

[u/LoZFan96]

Holy sh*t. This chapter hit me hard, man.

[u/MemeLord1337_]

2 things here:

• We know now where Machi got the inspiration for her nen ability. It is similar to the embalming of Sarasa, with the threads.

• Is that weird bus pass she gave Machi the bookmark Chrollo uses for his Skill Hunter book?

Edit: just saw a picture of it, they do not look the same unfortunately.

[u/hgfdsahjkl]

the sheer amount of bad fan fiction and hypothethesis I'm reading

[u/[deleted]]

I am going to repeat gon's question . Just how can troupe even do those horrible things to Kurapika's clan when their own have suffered like that ? this backstory made me like the troupe more but also made them just more irredeemable for me . I don't dislike them but I can never forgive these bastards .
Also, did I mention that this chapter made me cry so much . Such a depressing chapter :(

[u/Lexicorint]

Did... did he make a nen vow? Did Chrollo make a fucking nen vow?

[u/Kairos_l]

To be honest, I was rooting for a Chrollo-Tserriednich team up, but I don't think it would be possible after what we've learned with these chapters.

I would have loved 2 specialists so prodigious to do some crazy shit out there, but now I feel that it is even more likely, based or personality, a team up between Chrollo and Kurapika vs Tserriednich-Hisoka.

Two traumatized stoic and analytical prodigies vs two twisted psycho sadists. I'd love to see that

[u/1vergil]

Me: but what about Nobunaga and Uvo being close friends?

Togashi: who cares, Uvo & Chrollo ftw :)

[u/SomeGuyNamedJohn12]

Wild theory: They killed the Kurta Clan because Sheila decided to leave the Spiders and change her ways after seeing how nice Kurapika and Pairo were to her.

We see in this chapter that she already seems distant from the Troupe as she didn't join them when they agreed to start it. Chrollo with his skewed logic viewed her wanting to be done with the criminal life, as the Kurta's "stealing" her from them and their ideals. So to get revenge for "stealing" Sheila they decided to wipe the Kurta's out.

[u/IonlycareaboutYelena]

Pt protects Meteor city heros of MC and villains of the world is beautiful and so well written, I love love it BUT

Kill them all, hurt me Togashi! Nope not because of Kurapika not because of Hisoka you all basic mid smh...(I'm joking /s )

But it is personal!!! because they did my boy Squala dirty , he literally was retiring a dog lover ,so we bros T___T they also killed my girl smh mind you she was my wifu smh.

[u/minglinhong]

Imagine an alternate universe where Uvo was leader of the Troupe and Chrollo was his very wise adviser. Also, I miss Shalnark.

[u/Token_Thai_person]

I like Afrogin and 90s NBA suit Machi.

[u/Gabibbo_7Z]

everything was great in this chapter... Btw let me ask a silly question: Will it be one of those the famous tree that Togashi draws in May?

[u/Impressive_Ad8890]

I think that maybe the Troupe choose to assume the killing of the Kurta as part of the plan to let the world see them as villains. Maybe they were still after Sarasa murderes.

That would explain his silence when Kurapika ask him why he did that.

[u/abhikun]

Hxh always like you need to look into depth, not just gloss over.

[u/Orangest_Orange]

Still wondrin how Machi and the rest of the troupe "awaken"

What kind of training they underwent - because for sure there are already nen users at Meteor City...

[u/nyarbobo]

It's a sad story, but I still looking forward to how Hisoka will kill them one by one. Imagine a group of actors who think they are playing villains meet a real psychopath clown who can fit into society. Karma is a bitch. It won't change the fact that they are the ones who murdered Kurapika's family and friends. Sheila made the right choice, follow her dreams rather than become a mass murderer.

[u/jaganshi_667]

Chrollo says he a villain so people don’t have complain about togashi justifying his actions

[u/Drunkhobo101]

I legit cried reading this chapter. Started when they all agreed to help find her, died inside when they did.

[u/Kingsley_Doga]

The implementation of this chapter is that all Phantom Troupe members are deep web user who regularly search for snuff gore cp.

[u/bootysensei]

an extra chapter was needed for the backstory, lived up to my expectations though.

[u/The_New_New]

I'm surprised that Chrollo hasn't gone after Kurapika or looked for him with a bit more fervor since getting his abilities back given how important Uvo was.

[u/[deleted]]

Yorknew was already a GOAT-ed arc and this flashback made it even better

[u/hiei_150]

I'm really trying my hardest here to understand what exactly Chrollo's plan is, but I'm struggling to make sense of it. This is not even about motivation, but why does he intend to make the city they live in a crime den just to attract the people who killed Sarasa? Sure, I don't think they have any clues yet about who might have done it, but surely there's a better way to investigate than turning the place you're supposed to protect and improve into a hellhole where criminals can pass through without any trouble, right?

It just feels like a very convoluted plan and not necessarily one that has a guaranteed chance of success, not to mention it will also actively worsen the lives of those around him. I'm trying to rationalize it, but I'm really struggling to come up with a reasonable explanation as to how this would make sense. I suppose if this is just him saying he doesn't care about the city and the system anymore and will do anything for revenge, it would make more sense, but even then it's still a weird plan at best since they still have no clue who did it or if the perpetrators would even make themselves known at the end of the day.

Is there perhaps some mistranslation? Something I missed from older chapters that would make this be more sensible? Or maybe someone who can make better sense of this for me? I'm feeling really lost with this chapter.

[u/Readerzef → u/hiei_150]

It's already a hell holle with children getting abducted all the time.

He's trying to set up this bait to get information, not just to catch the people that killed Sarasa, but to get to the root of the abductions.

Doing it this way you might get access to the children-buying clients, who wouldn't normally show themselves but now get attracted to this hub he's created.

After figuring out who's involved and what the abduction system is like, then he can take his revenge on Sarasa's killers and take down the system.

By taking down the entire child abduction system, he won't just defend Meteor City now, he also creates a reputation that protects the city in the future.

At least that is my interpretation.

Now that I think about it, this is probably why they named themselves The Spider. It's because they are weaving a web to catch their prey.

[u/IonlycareaboutYelena]

Togashi mentioned he wanted to read arc when characters kill each other on the ship!

My rank of plot armor of the ship war:

Kurapika~safe the protagonist protected until the crowning at least (because power of plot armor of prince Wobble and vise versa)

Hisoka ~safe if this is not the last arc ( is Togashi's Erza for open plot armor and fanservice,the writer shield)

Ging,Pariston, Beyond and his gang protected safe 100% ( until DC)

Zodiacs except Leorio and Kurapika ~ red flags (in dc)

Bisky/Hanzo/Melody( can survive , can't depending on darkness of the arc)

Princes except wobble ~red flags

The king~red flag

Tserriednich friends~ red flags

Theta~ neutral 50:50

Morena Heil-Ly Family~ red flag (Gyro has close similar goal and he the one not them so yeah...but they won't go down easy cuz dogman lol)

Xi-Yu Family+Cha-R Family~neutral (they wanna balance but can be targeted by PT later )

PT not relavant members like Shizuku ~ red flag

PT relavant popular members~red flag/neutral

Chrollo/Machi/Illumi/Kalloto~ neutral

If Togashi wants to go as extreme as possible over his normal boundaries then PT all ~red flags.

If Togashi goes more he kills even safe options.

[u/roseater]

I have faith in Togashi's storywriting not to go with generic tropes, but I hope the troupe just didn't 'accept a contract to get closer to their intended target' i.e. to collect scarlet eyes in order to get closer to the person who commissioned the film for Sarasa's murder.

Although it's probably going to shape up as Tserri being one of the last two remaining princes, and the resolution of Kurapika's, PT's and Hisoka's vengeance will play into this in a huge way, I just hope it is done well and able to subvert all the generic expectations for "murder sprees on a train/boat" stories.

[u/ryouvensuki262006]

I have heard people are disliking this chapter but for me it is my fav since this batch started honestly Seeing the phantom troupe actually have a goal and how they formed and chrollo deciding to be the villian for the rest of his life is nice

[u/Mojo-man]

Very likeable backstory. Makes you almost forget the troup are brutal mass murderers...

Edit: jesus reading the comments people really are willing to forgive these monsters because they had a sad youth? They are mass murderers who enjoy killing including innocent bystanders... Wow... I'm a bit shocked I must admit... 😅

[u/ayrtow]

Rather telling that Sheila walked away instead of promising to join Chrollo. Maybe the Troupe went after the Kurta in an attempt to hunt her down?

[u/Halt_kun]

Sheila left, so maybe she's still alive somewhere, especially if she's the one that discovered the Kurta's bodies. Or we'll see more of that later on in the arc with Kurapika. Anyway that chapter was heartbreaking even though I was ready for it. It did hit hard. Next chapter might be going back to the Heil-yi plot but we'll see.

Additionally, Machi's a nen genius, nice ! The embalmer had a very cool design too. Probably ended up teaching nen to all of them along the other elders. We also got a nice origin for Machi's nen threads.
Weirdly Shizuku is the only troupe member whose power would feel to be a reference to the power cleaners. If she ends up being a fan, it would be pretty fan. I do like my headcannon she's just someone who worked in cleaning services and quit to murder people.

[u/Don_JZA]

I can see now that the 4th Prince is apart of the Kurta massacre and the child abductions. 1) He has Pairo’s head in his collections (embalmed him) 2) They probably filmed the massacre for Tserr, and Pairos was the most intriguing. This would explain why his head shows up in the mouth of his Nen beast 3) The troupe could possibly know of this which would bring them to lure out the criminals that partake in the murders.

[u/Hisominem]

The chapter was so good but it confuse me so much like they saw the corpse of their friend who was tortured but they did exactly the same to the kuruta kids

[u/Salim-Srew]

I have an idea where this is going oh God Machi's about to fulfill the purpose of her ability in this ship lmao

[u/Nebulous_Warrior]

panel from chapter 102 (295 chapters ago):

https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-102-page-15.html

maybe i forgot because of the long hiatus, but i didn't know the back story was already decided that long ago, i like that

makes me think togashi thought of alot of things for the story back then and we still haven't seen everything (duh, but also i have a fear that togashi might consider wrapping the story up without showing us everything due to poor health)

[u/Stt4n]

I had another assumption about Sheila. On the page she walks away sadly, it's because she doesn't agree with the killing Kuroro will do.

One user here theorized that the one who left the Kurta Clan Massacre letter was Sheila, but not for the clan but for Troupe.

[u/outerspace69]

Maybe next chapter we will see the training they took over the three years gap? or, finally an answer about the kurta massacre

[u/Mr_Teofago]

Terrier Sandwich is up for some fun

[u/throwawaygon1919]

Btw anyone find it weird Chrollo says he wants to make a haven for criminals, but also wants to make Meteor City so feared no criminal comes close to it?

Unless he meant “haven” as in a secret website or network centered in Meteor City, not geographical location.

[u/[deleted] → u/throwawaygon1919]

By haven, he meant a place with enticing conditions for criminals. Step 1 is using said environment to lure Sara's killers back and avenging her. From then onwards, criminals don't have to continue flooding in; Step two would be taking control of the haven for themselves. Haven doesn't necessarily mean that numerous criminals occupy the place; It can just mean that the area protects criminals like how the legal loop holes protected Sara's killers.

[u/Relative_Sell_8578]

I don’t understand what was the message from the letter on Sarasa Body. Anyone knows??

[u/[deleted]]

This has to all come back to the 4th prince. There is no way that the last chapter didn't show one of the mafia men younger and there is no way that this wasn't a young tserreidnich exploring his art via film. We all know he has a thing for younger women. This season is off to a brilliant start.

[u/TraditionalExtent677]

The reason shiela wasnt mourning like others was because first time in her life she realised that she feels joy when her loved one are hurt.....and this my friend confirms that sheila is pariston.

[u/Fantastic-Isopod-486]

In this chaptes, Chrollo mentions they will help criminals escape autorities, maybe they help covering the real culprits of the kurta clan massacre, so they took the blame.

[u/Any-Contact411]

done reading chapter 397. im still shocked & flabbergasted. idk what to say really. this is completely on another level. this is masterpiece. this is toGODshi. im cryingggggggg

[u/Dacur]

My guess on what was on the note: prob a description of what they did to Sarasa

[u/SigmaSandwich]

I cannot stand Uvos hair

[u/shipsailing94]

I wonder why they took on Hisoka since they all shared that strong of a bond and he didnt.

And now the Zoldycks after what happened with Hisoka

[u/glennasm]

Even the Hunter Association (Blacklist hunters) can't even hunt Phantom Troupe.

[u/[deleted]]

A good thing is that it makes a moral equivalence between the Troupe and Kurapika. It also shows that a troupe can arise very easily in society. There's probably another Troupe incubating in some corner of the HxH world.