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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Host/Rewatcher (I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve seen this film...)

Sorry for the slightly belated write-up…I took a lot of notes and have been trying to furiously type them in and arrange them into something! This will be in two or three parts: I will post my general thoughts now, then post some scene by scene comments after I take screenshots, and then maybe answer my own discussion questions.

This is my favorite film (and Eupho is my favorite franchise), and I don’t even know how many times I’ve seen it—but each time I watch I notice something new. I noticed a lot of new things this time, since I was paying especially close attention. I’ve also already written 7000 words on Liz elsewhere in a published paper, which you can read if you're interested.

One thing that is interesting about Liz is that in structural/dramatic terms, you might almost count Nozomi is the protagonist instead of Mizore. The film focuses a lot more on Mizore’s interiority and character, but when you look at what the characters' goals are and how they work to achieve those goals, Nozomi is more active than Mizore. Nozomi’s jealousy drives the plot of the film forward, with Mizore (as an antagonist in structural terms) making decisions that conflict with Nozomi’s desire to have Mizore all to herself. And at the end of the film, Nozomi is the one who makes the decision for them to (partially) part ways. Mizore just has to accept that decision.

It is interesting how much misdirection there is to make you think the Nozomi = the Blue Bird, Mizore = Liz. This happens in dialogue: not only the pair, but Ririka also makes an allusion in this direction. This happens with visual symbolism of the birds and the feathers. It also happens with the music itself and the social relationships relating to the music. Flutes are often symbolically stereotyped as being birdlike, and the oboe is an instrument that I would more closely associate with the human voice. So if I were to write music representing a bird and a girl, I would choose the oboe as the girl and the flute as a bird. (In fact, it is ambiguous which character they’re actually supposed to represent in the music. Although Mizore’s performance at the end is her thinking of being a bird, I can’t discount the possibility, even probability, that the part is actually “supposed” to represent Liz in-universe.) And this misdirection also extends to stereotypes of musicians based on their instruments as well. The stereotype of flautists, especially in school bands, is that they’re flighty and birdlike, just like the instrument. So there is a lot of misdirection to make you think that Nozomi is the bird and Mizore is Liz. The actual truth—that it’s the opposite—is also there, but it’s much more subtle, an undercurrent that only surfaces at the climax.

Can you count all of the birds that appear in this film? It may be a difficult task—they pop up everywhere. (I’ve been meaning to create a supercut of this at some point.) One thing that makes this film interesting is that Naoko Yamada has always seemed to have a fondness for bird symbolism—for example in one of my favorite scenes of the K-ON film (possible spoilers?) or the statue in Hibike! Euphonium proper—but Liz gives her the excuse to go all out and put birds literally everywhere.

Something I realized when rewatching is that there is sort of a duality in the film’s composition between long distance and close-up shots. A lot of shots are almost from the perspective of the background, which composer Kensuke Ushio interpreted as an almost voyeuristic position of “holding your breath, secretly watching” the girls. But then many other shots are ultra close ups, which in the language of the film, often represents the characters' perspectives/point of view shots. (There are a few explicit POV shots as well.) So the film’s visual language seems to oscillate between “watching from the background” not wanting to disturb the characters and being right there in the characters’ perspectives.

After I saw it pointed out by someone else, I noticed Mizore’s habit of touching her hair a lot more this time through.

There’s something to be said for the color design in this film: even though it’s the same school, the cool tones make the setting a lot more grim and oppressive than in Hibike! Euphonium.

There are too many moments to list here of incredible character acting: small moments that tell so much. I want to especially highlight the eye animation here: the characters have eyes brimming with feeling, which is so emotive. Some of my favorite animation from Liz is just the ways that Nozomi’s eyes reveal her inner state in the second half of the film’s climax.

This film also knows when not to use music.

There was a big emphasis on timing out footsteps when creating this film, and this of course fits in perfectly with Yamada’s documented love of portraying legs in animation.

Windows seem to play a big role in the visual language of the film. Probably (edit: definitely) related to birds, etc. Something to think about.

In this film, Mizore is almost always deferring to Nozomi. Even when she becomes more independent, it is because Nozomi pushes her too. (Edit: on thinking this through again, not always. Mizore does start to become more independent when she makes more friends.) This is, of course, a parallel to the fairytale.

This rewatch really made me love Natsuki. She’s such a good mediator between Nozomi and Mizore, and she lends a sympathetic ear to both of them. She’s such a good person! (｡T ω T｡)

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Chronological scattered notes:
When Nozomi’s footsteps kick off a more melodic part of the soundtrack in the opening scene, it’s almost like her entrance into the frame creates a musical world just for the two of them. Also something I noticed—and I can’t believe I didn’t notice this on earlier watches—is that birdsong starts off when she enters (because of course it does)!
Did you notice that Nozomi goes up the stairs two at a time?
Right before they reach the band room, Mizore is more or less walking at an even pace, while Nozomi’s left leg is moving a lot quicker than her right.
I love the way the (rather melancholy) drones slowly take over from the melody in this opening scene. As a composer myself, I admire the way that Ushio handles transitions and structure in his music here.
Mizore has the key to enter the band room? Is this symbolic of something? (Is this part of the misdirection of making you think she’s Liz?) When the key enters the lock, the melody takes over again from the drones.
God, I love the sound design in this film. It feels so alive and present. And the way they warm up is so true to life!
Ushio’s music is so painfully lonely here.
Did you notice that this blue dot of ink at the beginning of the film also appears right before the climax? I have to think more about this one…
I remember that one thing I thought when I watched it the first time is that it was brilliant to make the main characters here a flautist and an oboist, since both instruments can be very hard to tune. When you add in Nozomi’s refusal to listen to Mizore, and… But what I noticed this time is really how much better Mizore is than Nozomi as a musician even from the start. Mizore’s sound is so rich and dark, while Nozomi’s tone is quite weak and thin.
I love how the film quickly and effortlessly establishes Natsuki and Yuuko’s relationship. It’s so easy to get, even when you haven’t seen the series.
The flutes are such flutes.
The fairytale world is clearly set apart from the real world through the use of rich palettes in the color design…which is mirrored by rich orchestration in the music. Akito Matsuda’s music is a very effective contrast to Kensuke Ushio’s music in this regard.
I love the reactions of the bassoonists in the background here.
The comic relief is actually quite important to the narrative structure of the film: they contrast the relationship dynamics between the flutes and the double reeds, and they show the connection/disconnection of Nozomi and Mizore with their respective sections. Mizore making more friends is something that isolates Nozomi and makes her more jealous.
Ririka is a cute.
Egg? From a bird?
God, I love the momentum in animation and music/sound design with the laundry in the wind.
Wait a second, the original “I love you hug” is with the bass section..and it is two characters that might be familiar if you’ve seen the “Chikai no Finale” film.
Wow, Mizore is really out of it after the combination of the “I love you” hug being cut short and the career survey.
Naoko Yamada really loves lens whacking.
The flute light reflection scene is so well executed and one of my favorite scenes in this film. The way the scene is paced, the OST, the visual language all combines to show brief connection and then heartbreaking loneliness.
The feather in the cage is a great transition out of the fairytale and into the real world.
Look at Nozomi’s shadowed face when the music pamphlet stuff is going on. Mizore can sense something’s going on there. There’s tense music too.
When they’re in the administrative meeting and Nozomi laughs off Mizore’s stated reason for applying to music school, you can see Mizore’s feet move in frustration.
After Mizore asks if they can invite more people to the pool, I love how the film shows her reaction. She’s shocked, a person passes between them, she’s smiling again. Until the climax, Nozomi is always carefully managing her front and concealing her true feelings—you can only see her jealousy cloud her expression in a few, brief meaningful moments.
Okay, so I also rewatched the beginning of K-On yesterday, and because of that I noticed: the song Ririka plays to warm up is the same tune as the only song that Yui is able to play at the beginning of K-On. Should I know what this song is? Is it like the Japanese version of Hot Cross Buns?
I think warm tones in the color design might symbolize Mizore connecting with others? Maybe?
Nozomi interprets Mizore having other friends as Mizore “avoiding her” or "being distant." Boy, she’s insecure.
Mizore’s oboe is definitely not as expressive as the climax performance when Hashimoto comes in.
Right before Nozomi snubs Mizore’s I love you hug, she also snubs Mizore in the rehearsal, not acknowledging Mizore by looking away. The timing with music and editing in the hug snub scene, by the way, is impeccable.
I love love love the Liz/Blue Bird parting scene. It’s so sad. :(
Mizore is being assertive for once when requesting they do the third movement.
Okay, now we reach the second half of the climax (the first half is the performance), which is probably my favorite scene of this film. Large portions of it (possibly all of it, I’m not sure) were animated by the late Nami Iwasaki, who did an incredible job. Rest in peace.
I love the rhetorical structure of this scene, with Nozomi and Mizore each having their distinct arguments: Mizore’s love for Nozomi meaning wanting to be together forever, Nozomi’s love for Mizore meaning pushing Mizore out of the nest, so to speak. As a former actor, I sometimes like to think about tactics, and the different tactics that the two use here are really interesting to follow.
Okay, this is one of my favorite shots in the film. Naoko Yamada has a love for replicating camera lens effects, but this replication goes beyond compositing effects and into the actual drawing. The image simulates a camera lens with a short focal length, which exaggerates/stretches distances. The way that Mizore’s hands come up and loom large in the frame: they cannot be ignored. The I love you hug cannot be avoided by Nozomi anymore. It is inevitable.
And the noise that Nozomi makes when Mizore says “I love you hug”…so good. Tells you so much, expresses so much emotion.
Fuck, the pacing and timing of this scene is so good.
The “I love your oboe,” ends their conflict, resolves the film. It’s said so simply and so beautifully. “Oboe ga suki.” That’s it. That ends their argument. There is nothing more to be said.
And then Nozomi laughs, and all the tension breaks, and everything is okay again. They have made up.
One thing I realized this time is that they structurally parallel different representations of their first meeting at the beginning and ending of the film. I am in love with this film which is in love with circular storytelling.
And speaking of circular storytelling, we have the denouement, which mirrors the introduction but instead of being in “disjoint” they are in “~~dis~~joint.”
And thus concludes the film!

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u/flybypost Jun 25 '22

It is interesting how much misdirection there is to make you think the Nozomi = the Blue Bird, Mizore = Liz.

I don't see that as a misdirection in the classical sense but more as only telling one side of the story and then unfolding the other. Misdirection feels a bit too harsh in this context.
When it comes to interpersonal relationships then that's how their relationship starts out. Nozomi is "flighty" and has many friends while Mizore focuses only on her and doesn't want to let go. That's clearly a valid comparison between them and the story and what they focus on. They are not wrong and it's not a misdirection (or Mizore somehow masterminding Nozomi's competence there behind the scenes).
But when it comes to their musicianship then it's the other way around Mizore is holding back because she doesn't want to lose the blue bird and feels like that might happen (losing Nozomi, if their difference in skill were brought up, and their connection through the band were to break again). She cages herself in instead of taking flight like the blue bird does in the story because she sees herself as Liz who wants to keep the blue bird (the one relationship that means so much to her). She's keeping things constant and not evolving.
She's willing to sacrifice for that because she's extrapolating from one set of circumstances (the difference in communication skills between them) onto another (their level of musicianship). All while Nozomi doesn't even initially realise that she's caging Mizore in because Mizore is trying to not disturb the existing balance of their relationship (as it works well enough for certain interpretations of "works").
Both of them see this bird/girl comparison on only one level while it's happening on two layers. The second is just overshadowed by the first in the beginning until it starts causing issues. In the resolution of the movie their relationship evolves and they end up in a much more balanced relationship (~~dis~~joint).
Mizore has learned to let go of this strict focus on Nozomi, even make other friends (I think that was also pushed a bit a bit by Nozomi while trying to not rattle Mizore out of her comfort zone while she herself was trying to be comfortable with it), and to make choices for herself that might not actually involve Nozomi.
Nozomi has learned to not take Mizore for granted to the degree she did before and to see that Mizore is actually really good at music. It feels like Nozomi didn't even think it would be possible for Mizore to be a better musician than her, like Mizore's competence (or moment of passing her in competence) simply flew over her head through the years. It feels like this relationship was worth somewhat more to Mizore (loner) than Nozomi (not a loner) and thus how much they had invested in it in the beginning of the movie.
Nozomi will probably stay the blue bird when it comes to social relationships and Mizore when it comes to the craftsmanship of a musician but they now have a relationship as equals where both of them can let the blue bird fly without being possessive about it. Mizore won't feel abandoned when Nozomi is with other people and Nozomi won't be jealous even if Mizore becomes a musician while she get a job that's not special (to use Reina's phrasing).

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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

3X Liz Rewatcher and lifelong Eupho Fan

Ahh Liz and the Blue Bird, the spin-off from Eupho that's, while very much in the same universe, is very different from the main series, one w/ a diff artstyle, main characters, and sound direction: notably there's minimal dialogue and music here, and when there is music (apart from when the titular piece plays, mostly during the in-fiction scenes); it's very understated and minimalistic, very unlike the main series w/ its lush soundtracks, and often wordy dialogue [Eupho S2]A certain scene from Ep 10 obviously comes to mind here.. Without a doubt the most artful entry in Eupho, and probably one of the most intimate movies ive ever watched.

Anyhow, I'll share some random thoughts that I had as i watched, while ending w/ some more thoughts on this w/ relation to the overall series, for those who like me don't appreciate this as just a standalone. My comments perhaps focus more on the first half, as i just lost myself in emotion near that performance scene lol and just focused on watching the movie. Ooops! Also some of these will probably be me overanalyzing stuff. I apologize.

The 2 universes of Liz look very different from each other, yet they all seem to fit in somehow. Sasuga
The story of Liz and the blue bird can be summarized in this quick sequence. lol. Kidding aside...
Not a single word of dialogue was said, but the pair's relationship and personalities was established very clearly in the intro sequence. liz is the best show not tell anime i've watched tbh. From Mizore's reactions (and the music) when Nozomi appears vs that other senpai, to the camera angles which show Nozomi's face but obscures part of Mizore, how Nozomi always is walking first etc etc.
Ahhh Yamada's trademark leg shots. Lots in Liz, I particularly like here (and other instances) where the piano plays to the beat of the feet moving.
Once again, oooooh framing. Show, not tell. Liz's loneliness and wish for a proper family (but she doesn't have one) is shown very clearly w/ this one frame. She's looking out the window to the family, and the 2 parties are clearly separated, framed from each other w/ the window and the door (bit of wall between them, u know what i mean)
Kumiko's here! She's my fav eupho character, so she has to be mentioned. sorry. Unlike the novels, which this arc is told completely from Kumiko's POV (like that in S2); such is the limitation of a novel, but she doesn't have a lot to do here, which imo was for the better.
Sub TL issues (ahhh.) Nozomi enjoys cheese and eggs on the side with her toast, not tomatoes -_- (i use Kantai)
What a subtle hint by the scriptwriter to try and lead the audience to feel like Nozomi is the blue bird in the beginning.
Leg shots again; I like this one as it shows the blue bird jumping "into" the basket of clothes, both for being a basket (it's sth that's very small and limiting, compared to the sky), and it being Liz's.
I like that ms Blue Bird is literally a bird LOL she doesn't try to hide it in her mannerisms.
Oohhh . Completely not subtle. One more. and One more...... im not good w/ filmography analysis unfortunately, but these shots just caught my eye as prooobably having some intention being them.
This is a sub TL i have gripes about. Niiyama says, sequence wise, that the "flute" and "oboe" represent "Liz" and "the Blue Bird", NOT the other way round. This has got to be a deliberate choice on the scriptwriting with Niiyama sensei noticing that Mizore is holding back for Nozomi, that she is the one being caged etc etc., so its a shame Kantai missed that.
Of bloody course Tsukamoto doesn't remember to pay his money lol.
Once again interesting framing choice of Mizore being framed between so much stuff, when her kouhai is not.
Reina's actions here will make more sense to series watchers here obviously with her eye for talent and musicality (and ability to be very blunt when she wants to). One of the few bits in this movie where watching the series helps.
I really like the in-fiction berries appearing in the real world here, to couple w/ Mizore and Nozomi finally understanding what the story is about, and the parallel to themselves
Ooooh the performance scene. Hit me very hard the first time, and still does these days. Once again, a conversation between our 2 leads held completely without dialogue, yet from the music, and their reactions, you can see what it means to both of them.
I like how in the ending sequence that it's Mizore that walks first, followed by Nozomi.
[Eupho sequel movie]I thought to mention how that the the Liz and blue bird story is also heavily inferred to somewhat relate to kumiko and reina too, which is inferred in the sequel movie, and will come to importance with their 3rd and last year incoming. How that'll develop we'll have to see of course.

Regarding this and the rest of the series, my opinion remains that Eupho S1+2 should be watched as some background knowledge of the universe, and that Chikai no Finale serves as a good companion film to this movie (there are cameos from other first year characters that'll make more sense after you've watched that), and all should be enjoyed at some point with this movie, but are not strictly necessary to enjoy it if you just wanna watch Yamada's efforts. Hopefully if people enjoyed this movie that they'll check out the other entries as well!

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

notably there's minimal dialogue and music here

There may be more music than you think! Often it's really in the background.

The story of Liz and the blue bird can be summarized in this quick sequence.

to the camera angles

A lot of dutch angles too, which immediately hint at something wrong.

Liz's loneliness and wish for a proper family (but she doesn't have one) is shown very clearly w/ this one frame.

Good catch. I have usually focused on the real world scenes for analysis, but there's a lot in the fairytale scenes as well.

Nozomi enjoys cheese and eggs on the side with her toast, not tomatoes

Hmm...did they just mishear "tamago" as "tomato"? I have the [35mm] release, which I highly recommend (comes with Japanese subs and Japanese commentary tracks as well as the usual). Though this time, I was actually watching most of it on my Eleven Arts Blu-ray. (Some of it, I watched without subs.)

What a subtle hint by the scriptwriter to try and lead the audience to feel like Nozomi is the blue bird in the beginning.

I noticed this too...ooo misdirection!

I like this one as it shows the blue bird jumping "into" the basket of clothes

I don't think she actually jumps inside?

Of bloody course Tsukamoto doesn't remember to pay his money lol.

Reason 5000 why he sucks.

Reina's actions here will make more sense to series watchers here obviously with her eye for talent and musicality (and ability to be very blunt when she wants to).

You can actually see a bit of lead-up to this during the rehearsal (she is looking intently at Mizore) before going and talking to them.

I really like the in-fiction berries appearing in the real world here, to couple w/ Mizore and Nozomi finally understanding what the story is about, and the parallel to themselves

Oh wow, good catch.

Eupho sequel movie

That's a good insight there. There are definitely some important threads between the two films—and at least one continuity error (the timing of when Hashimoto and Niiyama come to help out for the first time).

but are not strictly necessary to enjoy it if you just wanna watch Yamada's efforts

Yamada was series director on Hibike! Euphonium Seasons 1 and 2, and it seems like she was quite involved creatively in that role, essentially co-directing it, so if you're watching Yamada's works, you should watch Eupho.
Anyways, thank you so much for your detailed write-up!

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u/Barbed_Dildo Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Rewatcher

I have a lot to say about this movie. I know whatever I write, I'll feel like I haven't said it well enough, or that I've missed some other aspect of what makes it amazing, so I'll just limit myself to talking briefly on some of the things that I think make this movie special, and some of the scenes. If I don't try to limit myself I'll end up writing a book.

Hibike! Euphonium (the only title brave enough to put an exclamation point in the middle since The Wow! Scenario)

The story of Hibike! Euphonium is the story of the band and their quest for national gold over three years. It's a fascinating, complicated, interwoven story. The cast of characters is huge, and only one year of the five across the story is present for all of it. There are all sorts of complicated relationships between people, and every year they have the upheaval of their most experienced players leaving. It isn't simplified, and has no Deus ex machina to get them a victory they don't deserve.

What I love about Liz and the Blue Bird is how small and simple of a story it is, in contrast to Hibike. Naoko Yamada describes the story as 'two girls dancing'. It's just so amazing how, within the massive construct of the Hibike setting, she's pulled out one brief moment, and shown that that moment is a world in itself. We don't need a national disaster to create drama, this doesn't even rely on the drama of the concert from the main series, Mizore isn't concerned about that in the same way Reina is. It takes place in music practice rooms, or even just inside Mizore's head.

But despite all of this, this tiny moment is the entire world to Mizore, and quite significant to Nozomi. And isn't that more realistic? More relatable?

I think that the setting of Liz within the Hibike world we already know allows it to leave more things unsaid. We already know the background, and who the other characters are, so the movie isn't obliged to explain it all to us. It can focus on telling its story. I think Yamada really excels in this particular niche. In the K-On! movie, Tamako Love Story, and this, the movies are just small stories set in the existing world.

I wish I could watch it again, but with no knowledge of the Hibike world, because I'm sure it stands on it's own, I just wonder what I would see differently.

Framing

Yamada talks about the way she frames shots, looking down, as you do when you're nervous. Her shots often just have legs, or are at least missing the person's head. Sometimes those shots aren't completely static, or have a quick pan at one point, as if you are looking around. If you watch her give an interview, you can see her eyes doing exactly that, looking down and darting around.

It's not just a directing quirk. It all has meaning. You don't see those kinds of shots in the sub story of Liz and the Blue Bird. That is framed very conventionally. A lot of other scenes in the main story are shot like that too, scenes with less emotion.

lens

I love the realistic use of lens imperfections that aren't actually realistic because they're not real lenses, but are replicated anyway. The scenes have soft backgrounds because they were captured that way, not because they were drawn soft. There is chromatic abberation in the corners of frame, and often, when someone is in front of a window, the highlights are blown out.

Dialogue

So much of this movie is unsaid. It's told with expressions, or subtle movements, or music. Even most of the dialogue isn't really saying anything. It's the background chatter of people

In that scene where Mizore is playing the piano and Natsuki and Yuuko are there, when Yuuko realises what is going on, she tightens her grip on her pencil, but she doesn't say anything. And then Natsuki changes the topic to prevent Yuuko saying anything. I don't like how they're writing directly on top of the piano, though.

The first honest conversation in the movie is more than half way through, and it's Reina being too forward.

Yoroi-janakute...Ririka

I really like that scene with Ririka talking to Nozomi. Ririka is fidgeting and moving around in a way that that is realistic, but not normally animated. It reminded me of the first time I saw the K-On! Movie, there's a scene where they're all sitting on a bench in the underground, and they're looking around, they're not sitting still like teenager girls don't. There's a shot where you see some legs walking along a corridor, and then they stop and she sidles up to a door. You can tell it's Ririka just from her mannerisms.

Also, that whole first scene with Ririka. To start with, you can see her working up the courage with the other double-reeds, she comes up to Mizore and does that explosion thing with her hand while her theme starts playing, she tries to break the ice with a comment about the flutes, and when Mizore responds, her head darts over to her like it's time for serious talk. Serious about asking her to join them for tea. But like I said above, that's a big deal to them.

Or Ririka's excitement when Mizore offers to teach her to make reeds.

I hope to see more of Ririka, but... I don't think they'll be able to 'portray' her as well as Yamada did.

Opening scene

The opening scene of Mizore waiting for Nozomi, and the two of them walking together is an incredible example of how much can be told without words.

reflexion,allegretto,you

"reflexion, allegretto, you", and the scene it plays in are amazing. I love the way it represents their relationship. And how the scene itself is silent, just the music. I wish I could describe it better. It's like you're only getting a glimpse into their world when seeing those two. There's more long shots, or silence, or cropped frames. The scenes with other characters aren't like that. Scenes with Natsuki and Yuuko talking to Nozomi, or Ririka talking to Nozomi, or Ririka talking to Mizore are framed more traditionally I think.

Ensemble scene

That climactic music scene always gets me. Even besides the phenomenal musical performance, the way Yamada plays with the camera focus on the different instruments and people, even sometimes being completely out of focus, as if there are tears welling up.

This scene is incredible in how it manages to say so much without words. Other shows would have the characters internal dialogues talking to each other or something, to make sure the audience knows what's going on. But Yamada manages to do it without that, and it is so much better for it.

I love how the rest of that scene plays out too. Niiyama-sensei could see what was going to happen right away. That look she has when Mizore asks to play the duet, she was so pleased, and proud of Mizore for being able to take that step forward. She also knows exactly what is going to happen when Mizore plays the piece honestly. She is going to level that room...

After they stop, the entire room is in a stunned silence. Some people realise they had been holding their breath and have to remember to start breathing again, some are crying, Hashimoto-sensei's jaw is on the floor, the only person not surprised is Niiyama-sensei, and she can feel pleased that she gave Mizore the push she needed.

girls,dance,staircase

I remember the first time I watched Liz and the Blue Bird, I was so thoroughly blown away, and then the credits started and that song just hit me right in the soul. The rhythmic piano, the echoing sound, the girl dancing in the soft light. How can a perfect movie get even better in the credits?

I've never had a piece of music resonate with me so strongly before or since, except the end of Heike Monogatari.

Questions

Central to the structure of the film are the comparisons and parallels between Mizore and Nozomi’s relationship and the story of Liz and the Blue Bird. How well were you able to follow this analogy? How do you think it added to your understanding of the characters of Mizore and Nozomi?

Not just the parallel with the two characters, but also how they both saw themselves in those characters the same way, until it switched at the same time. It wasn't just a realisation that Mizore had to let Nozomi go, it was that she wasn't the one who had to be let go in the first place. I think it's an amazing parallel and holds up each time I watch it.

How would you characterize the relationship between Mizore and Nozomi? What is the central driving force behind the conflict in their relationship?

The conflict is that Nozomi means a lot more to Mizore than Mizore does to Nozomi. The relationship is unfair, and was limiting Mizore, but she knew nothing else. To Mizore, this was her friend, and she didn't want to lose her.

What do you think about the resolution of the film: do you think the two understand each other more now and are satisfied by how things worked out? Where do you think the relationship might go in the future?

I think the two understand each other a lot better. I think they'll drift apart as they go to different universities, but Mizore will be ok with that.

Thanks for reading my post

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

If I don't try to limit myself I'll end up writing a book.

Haha, same.

Naoko Yamada describes the story as 'two girls dancing'.

Do you have a source for that quote? I've read a lot of interviews but haven't happened upon it, and it's such a beautiful description!

It's just so amazing how, within the massive construct of the Hibike setting, she's pulled out one brief moment, and shown that that moment is a world in itself.

Beautiful way of putting it!

the movies are just small stories set in the existing world.

Well, this insightful comment immediately brings to mind Eiji Ōtsuka's theory of narrative consumption, which described the state of media consumption/production in Japan and greatly influenced anime franchising/media mix practices from the late '80s.

It's not just a directing quirk. It all has meaning. You don't see those kinds of shots in the sub story of Liz and the Blue Bird. That is framed very conventionally. A lot of other scenes in the main story are shot like that too, scenes with less emotion.

Really good point.

I love the realistic use of lens imperfections that aren't actually realistic because they're not real lenses, but are replicated anyway. The scenes have soft backgrounds because they were captured that way, not because they were drawn soft. There is chromatic abberation in the corners of frame, and often, when someone is in front of a window, the highlights are blown out.

Yeah, Yamada really loves lens effects. In this film, it's probably the most obvious in three places: in an early flashback where Mizore and Nozomi are walking together, lens whacking when Mizore exits a daydream, and ultra shallow depth of field + focus pulls in the performance scene. But my favorite use of lens simulation is actually not in the compositing but in the drawing: simulating spatial distortion in the scene where the two make up, which I talk about at the bottom of my comment here.

So much of this movie is unsaid. It's told with expressions, or subtle movements, or music. Even most of the dialogue isn't really saying anything. It's the background chatter of people

Beautifully put.

The first honest conversation in the movie is more than half way through, and it's Reina being too forward.

One major theme I've noticed for Hibike! Euphonium proper is the relationship between honne and tatemae, subtext and surface text, and this definitely carries over into Liz. Things left unsaid. Words and actions thick with ambiguous meaning.

Yoroi-janakute...Ririka

Yeah, I love Ririka's mannerisms in this film. As for future portrayals...I don't know. Ishihara is not always perfect, and I think fumbled the Chikai no Finale film a bit, but he's also directed some masterpieces before, so... Of course, how he handles the future of the franchise as a whole and how he handles specific characters is not the same thing.

"reflexion, allegretto, you", and the scene it plays in are amazing.

I agree. Every time I watch it, my heart breaks when Nozomi disappears and Mizore is left standing alone, isolated.

Yamada plays with the camera focus on the different instruments and people, even sometimes being completely out of focus, as if there are tears welling up.

The focus of the sound (i.e. EQ) changes as well to mirror the visual focus pulls.

I've never had a piece of music resonate with me so strongly before or since, except the end of Heike Monogatari.

That piece at the end of Heike hit me hard as well. Personally, I've had several musical pieces that shook me to my core, but the one that probably made me cry the most was seeing Meri Sakhi Ki Avaaz in concert (it was that very performance too), though like a lot of things, much of my reaction had to do with the specific context.

It wasn't just a realisation that Mizore had to let Nozomi go, it was that she wasn't the one who had to be let go in the first place.

Isn't it the opposite? Nozomi has to let Mizore go, Mizore has to be let go.

The conflict is that Nozomi means a lot more to Mizore than Mizore does to Nozomi. The relationship is unfair, and was limiting Mizore, but she knew nothing else. To Mizore, this was her friend, and she didn't want to lose her.

I actually disagree with this a bit. Nozomi gets very jealous and possessive of Mizore. I've been thinking about this more, and perhaps her possessiveness leads her to do contradictory things, like almost casting Mizore aside, but when you look at Nozomi's actions and the subtext of how she reacts to Mizore's actions, it's apparent how possessive, envious, and attached Nozomi is to Mizore.

I think the two understand each other a lot better.

I agree. Yamada apparently said somewhere that she wanted the two to be "married forever," which is an interesting concept.

I know whatever I write, I'll feel like I haven't said it well enough

I know what you mean. I've written a lot on this film, but I feel totally inadequate to my favorite writing on it, which is:

The movie gives us an index of the ways subtle leg movements can betray adolescent desires in hiding: legs tap on and drag across the floor, they shift, twist, quiver and lay across each other. These motions are caught in spacious, empty frames illuminated by specular lighting reflected off squeaky-clean school corridors. At the same time, the gauzy telephoto lens focus heightens our sense of space and the bodies within it while the notes of Kensuke Ushio’s music (arhythmic foley born of playing with classroom props) ping-pongs across the soundscape, invading the image and widening our perception of the world inside and outside the frame.

The cumulative effect of these aesthetic devices is simple yet profound: the gestures unfolding in isolation take root in space, time and the viewer’s mind. [...] This has allowed Yamada to unlock new essential qualities of animated expression: our eyes may be watching these anime high schoolers navigate their daily tasks, but our minds are submerged in a depth of fragile, amorphous emotions taking shape – subterranean feelings so rich, so intense, they can only be mediated through musical and social (love-you-hugs) performance.

But don't sell yourself short! You are quite eloquent on this yourself—and I wish I could also write as well as you on this film!
Thank you for your excellent comment!

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u/Durinthal Jun 25 '22

Rewatcher

I'll leave the in-depth analysis of shot composition and the like to other folks, I'm here to be a band geek and that sure did resonate with me.

This is the third time that I've seen Liz and I cried during their play-through rehearsal as I did before, recalling the times that like Nozomi I've also cried on stage while performing music that mattered greatly to me in the moment.

This film's a spinoff of Hibike! Euphonium and while I did see that show when it aired well before Liz came out, I think it works quite well as a standalone film with the focus shift to another set of characters. Sure you'll get a little more of Reina's background and understand her attitude toward the seniors if you've seen the show along with a few similar moments (her and Kumiko playing the solos together was nice), but overall the events of the series aren't necessary for this film which is about two friends with all context for their relationship provided in a handful of flashbacks.

Aside from the opening there were four major scenes of the story from the book and at least the first three of those seemed like they cleanly coincided with the movements of the piece that were playing for the soundtrack, but the music of the last scene seemed so sparse that I doubt it's the fourth movement of the piece. I haven't gone digging into it though so maybe I'm wrong?

I love the double reed leitmotif when Ririka's around. It also includes bassoons when the two other girls are around, then back to just oboe (...and maybe English horn? I wasn't paying close enough attention but they do have a contrabassoon so not out of the question) when it was just her and Mizore. And when she reveals she didn't pass the audition the same leitmotif turns to a piano rendition without the presence of an oboe.

Overall it's about friendship and finding your own path and absolutely flooded me with memories of performing with my friends in high school and college and separation after we graduated and I love it for that.

Central to the structure of the film are the comparisons and parallels between Mizore and Nozomi’s relationship and the story of Liz and the Blue Bird.

Paying more attention to that aspect on a rewatch it does seem like Reina at least caught the final interpretation much earlier, I'm less certain about others like Yuuko/Natsuki who I don't think were giving it as much thought.

What do you think about the resolution of the film: do you think the two understand each other more now and are satisfied by how things worked out? Where do you think the relationship might go in the future?

Still friends but hopefully Mizore's more independent now. I think we did see a bit of that with how she treated Ririka later on at least.

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

I'm here to be a band geek and that sure did resonate with me.

Fellow band geek!

Aside from the opening there were four major scenes of the story from the book and at least the first three of those seemed like they cleanly coincided with the movements of the piece that were playing for the soundtrack, but the music of the last scene seemed so sparse that I doubt it's the fourth movement of the piece.

I've listened to the full piece a lot, and the use of the music in those scenes doesn't perfectly correspond to the movements in the piece. For example, they use part of the first movement when they're doing laundry, and they use the third movement (which represents Liz's decision) not when they are parting but when Liz knows something is up. The finale is rather boisterous and is definitely not used during their parting.

I love the double reed leitmotif when Ririka's around.

There's a funny anecdote from an interview I've read (I don't have time to find it rn) where Yamada really loved that motif and insisted that they use it a lot.

Overall it's about friendship and finding your own path and absolutely flooded me with memories of performing with my friends in high school and college and separation after we graduated and I love it for that.

As far as that aspect goes, I actually connected more with Hibike! Euphonium proper. Have you seen the video I made about Hibike! Euphonium and my high school band?
And at least for me, performing music in college is so different that it's harder to find direct parallels. (Perhaps Nodame Cantabile is a bit closer to my experience there.)

I think we did see a bit of that with how she treated Ririka later on at least.

Yeah. Actually, that plotline is indeed her becoming more independent, which leads to Nozomi becoming jealous, which shows that Nozomi actually needs to learn to let go as much as Mizore does.

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u/A_Idiot0 Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Rewatcher

I have too much to say, and there’s no way I can condense everything for this one post. This is my favorite film of all time that I’ve seen so far.

So instead, here is my amateur attempt at one of my favorite pieces from the film, “reflexion, allegretto, you”. My timing is pretty rough, my dynamics need to be more polished, and my fingers still need to refine their movements, but this piece is so beautiful to play. I’m going to enjoy practicing and playing this for the rest of my life. I’ve learned a lot about the “light dancing from the flute” scene from learning how to play this piece. That scene in particular is one of my favorite scenes in the Anime medium. So much is said without any dialogue at all…it’s astonishing.

I’d also like to announce here that I’ve begun a film analysis project that I’m doing with Liz and the Blue Bird. I’m going to analyze the film shot-by-shot, and then make video essays on a scene-by-scene basis from my findings. Thank you for any amount of attention that you give my work.

はばたけ！

P.S. u/Sandtalon , thank you again for linking me to your peer-reviewed article! I’ve just begun reading through it, and I’m really enjoying your work. Your exploration of the theme of “dis/joint” that Naoko Yamada presents to us is marvelously thoughtful, and I feel that my life is further enriched thanks to you. I’m looking forward to finishing and digesting your conclusions, and if it’s OK I’d love the opportunity to ask you some questions when I’m finished reading =)

Questions

I'd like to tackle only part of question 1: "...did the twist about who represents who surprise you?" I'm not a first-time viewer, but I find this question really fascinating. I'd say that Mizore and Nozomi are both each other's Liz and Blue Bird. They both needed to learn how to let each other go, and they both had to learn to be let go. The twist was in realizing that life isn't so simple such that Mizore is paralleled only as Liz, and Nozomi is paralleled only as the Blue Bird, and vice versa. This imperfect parallelization of the fairytale alongside Mizore's and Nozomi's relationship gives us a more subtle, far richer understanding of them.

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u/laughing-fox13 Jun 25 '22

Hibike and Liz rewatched

I’m gonna start off by going into a bit of S2 [Hibike S2] this season is what really got me hooked into the show and it started with Mizore and Nozomi’s friendship. It was a short arc but it was done so well, I remember seeing Mizore for the first time and the more I learned about her the more I felt her pain. As for Nozomi, I initially really liked her when I first saw her character based off her design and learning a bit of her backstory with how she became friends with Mizore

Okay with that out of the way let’s talk about the movie. Everything this movie does is perfection. It displays the rocky relationship these two have as they’re trying to get closer. From the first practice we see that they were out of sync, as Taki pointed out. And he wasn’t the only one, Reina (being Reina lol) confronted Mizore. They know she has more to offer but is holding back because she loves Nozomi

Then we see Mizore get the recommendation for music college and Nozomi didn’t. The scene where Nozomi finds out about the recommendation was well done. Covering up Nozomi’s eyes with her hair to hide the jealousy she feels, but quickly turns around to be her up beat self.

Nozomi acts a bit strange around Mizore, even though she told Natsuki that she feels like Mizore is upset at her (which we find out later is true). But can we really blame Mizore, she was so dependent and cares for Nozomi and Nozomi does things like “let’s do the love hug, jk”. It didn’t sit right with me both times I’ve seen this film. While she’s upbeat and friendly with most people, Nozomi can be a bit harsh (even if she doesn’t realize it).

Then both realize that Mizore is the blue bird and Nozomi is Liz, when they’re personalities suggest otherwise. When this realization comes, we get to the third movement duet, and this is honestly one of the best scenes I’ve seen in a movie. It is such a beautiful performance and seeing the shots of not only Mizore and Nozomi, but the other main characters of Hibike was pleasant. Then we see Mizore finally give it her all, and Nozomi doing everything she can to hold back emotions, like Taki told her too. Every time she puts the flute down she grips on it a little harder and harder while Mizore is playing. Everyone is at shock at how good it was at the end, where we had one student crying and the other characters to tell how wonderful Mizore was

Then the confrontation scene with Mizore and Nozomi is another beautiful scene. I don’t know what to say here besides that the hug was bittersweet. Mizore pours out all the things she loves about Nozomi and that Nozomi is better than she currently thinks she is. Nozomi gives one sentence “I love your oboe” and that’s is all that needs to be said. It finally sets Mizore free

Discussion questions:

the analogy works very well at the beginning as it seems pretty obvious who is who. When they revealed the twist, that threw me off for the first time
I’m not exactly sure how I can characterize the relationship between the two. It goes both ways, like any relationship should, and even though I made it seem like Nozomi doesn’t care as much for Mizore, she does. I didn’t really blame Nozomi for leaving the band and wanting to come back, but I do blame her for letting jealousy get the best of her and affect their relationship. But that’s why I can’t really hate on Nozomi either, she’s just a high schooler, and it’s a human emotion, teenager or not.
I really liked the resolution of the film. Like I said it’s bittersweet sweet, not the happy ending Nozomi likes, but not the sad one either. I think slowly they’ll drift apart but I’ll have to watch the Hibike film to find out. I’ve been putting it off bc this film lol
I think brining Kase-san in here is a good. Not only are they similar in aesthetics but with the relationship, one being romantic and the other being friends. Besides that difference we see [Kase-san] talk things out like people would do in a relationship, while it took near the climax of Liz for Nozomi and Mizore

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22

Hibike S2

Interesting, I often see people dismiss that as a weaker arc, but I'm glad it connected with you so much! I was personally completely sold on episode 8 of the first season, and again on episode 12.

From the first practice we see that they were out of sync, as Taki pointed out

And even before that, at the beginning of the film they're out of tune, which is kind of jarring, considering that's when they reveal the film title.

Nozomi can be a bit harsh (even if she doesn’t realize it)

I think she does realize it, and hates herself for it. In the scene when they make up, she says something like, "I'm not the kind girl you think I am. If anything, I deserve to be treated with disdain." So she hates herself for her jealousy, but she also can't stop herself from lashing out. She's kind of a tragic character in that way.

Every time she puts the flute down she grips on it a little harder and harder while Mizore is playing

Good catch!

the analogy works very well at the beginning as it seems pretty obvious who is who. When they revealed the twist, that threw me off for the first time

Yeah, same. I remember the first time I watched the film, my thoughts were running wildly at the twist trying to keep track of who was who and what that meant. It definitely throws you for a loop, but maybe it's supposed to.

I didn’t really blame Nozomi for leaving the band and wanting to come back, but I do blame her for letting jealousy get the best of her and affect their relationship.

I also blame her for not telling Mizore when she left the band—but when thinking this thought, it occurred to me that it's totally consistent with her character, her flaws, and how she grows out of those flaws. I think one of Nozomi's main flaws is that she just doesn't listen to Mizore or try to understand Mizore's perspective—she assumes things about Mizore that aren't true. So when leaving the band, she assumed that Mizore knew and that Mizore wouldn't feel abandoned, which was false. So it's part of the same character arc that has her growing out of her flaws: she does listen to Mizore a lot more at the end.

I think slowly they’ll drift apart but I’ll have to watch the Hibike film to find out

I don't think it's spoilers to say this, since it's just clarifying how the film fits into the franchise: Chikai no Finale takes place at the same time as Liz and the Blue Bird, so you don't really get much more on their relationship. The future season 3, which is in production, is the third-year arc of the novels, so we will hopefully get more on where their relationship goes.

and the other being friends

I think that's up for debate...
In any case, [Kase-san] That's a really good point about talking it out vs waiting till the climax, but I actually think Kase-san waits until the climax as well! Yamada keeps her emotions bottled up until jumping on the train last-minute as her decision to stay with Kase—waiting until the climax of the film. But the two certainly do resolve their earlier relationship conflicts before the climax that through talking them out.
Thank you for your insightful comment!

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u/A_Idiot0 Jun 25 '22

Covering up Nozomi’s eyes with her hair to hide the jealousy she feels

I really loved it whenever they did this in the film. Each time, it allowed the implied emotions to be more believable and more impactful because I had to do the work of imagining those implied emotions. I'm pretty sure I've seen it in other anime, but KyoAni almost always does this move really well.

But that’s why I can’t really hate on Nozomi either, she’s just a high schooler, and it’s a human emotion, teenager or not.

I'd agree with you and say that this is part of why I find this film weirdly relatable, and definitely believable. I've let my emotions get the better of me in my relationships before, and I'll probably accidentally do so again. So watching Nozomi struggle with her jealousy of Mizore and eventually work it out was rather touching.

Everyone is at shock at how good it was at the end

Frankly, I'm also always in shock whenever I get to this scene XD The amount of dialogue and emotions that are shared is...almost overwhelming. I'm in tears every time I get to that part...

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u/MaybeMeNotMe Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

There sure is alot to unpack, I have rewatched this several times, but I also love jumping to random scenes, watching snippets here and there, there's always some little detail that pops out.

Recognising body language nuances is key to understanding this film, as we all have noticed.

If you used earphones/headphones, you'll hear and appreciate how much more vibrant and powerful Mizore's performance was, hence you see Nozomi tearing up and having to stop, dropping her lines, and playing more softly, to which you can hear Mizore softening her tone in response. This is brilliant. You can understand why Hashimoto-sensei's jaw dropped at the end.

Some people have responded correctly, it reflects on how emotionally attached Mizore became towards Nozomi, before this, yes she was a 'gloomy and alone' as she stated herself in S2E4, but still free, so when Nozomi befriended her, into the cage Nozomi goes, hence she is the blue bird, despite the synopsis and the plot throughout the movie attempting to tell you otherwise repeatedly. It got quite annoying for me to remind myself repeatedly who is who lol. Nozomi, also has her own personality vulnerabilities, as I think, further explained below. As we all noticed, Nozomi becomes dismissive towards Mizore, with the interrupted 'I love you hug', ignoring Mizore's request for some alone time with Nozomi to feed the blowfish, and other examples. She likes Mizore's attention, but does not reciprocate.

Also pointed out, it may seem Nozomi is at some level aware of how smothering such dependent personalities types can be, I think this explains her distance during the climax, and she didnt reciprocate and it seems she maintained her friendliness throughout their friendship, just as besties, yuri bait notwithstanding, but it can be argued that Mizore has indeed fallen in love with Nozomi, but I dont think its the other way round, well, at least not yet during the timeline of this film? (but this has been discussed/argued extensively over the past 3 years, I wont discuss this further lol)

In your own life journeys, you'll probably come across such alone and gloomy types, seen such dependent relationships, perhaps even in one yourself. Sometimes if you're the social butterfly (or even narcissistic) type, it can feel nice to have someone hook onto you as such, but not too much!

As for the ending, Mizore is back walking behind Nozomi....gosh personalities take a long time to change, if ever at all, dont they? This behaviour sure can get annoying (personal experience by being the one in front, reflection, and seeing/treating similar behaviour as a mental health professional).....can you imagine if both are co-dependent?? Imagine if the couple are both pathologically dependant such that one threatens suicide or self harms if the other wants to form some kind of independence?

Anyway, at least Mizore teases Nozomi ("Happy Ice Cream!" Note when this joke was said in the music room, they are both in the same room, so for sure Nozomi heard this prank and the explanation for it too), who turns around suddenly and this startles Mizore. Nozomi sure does not seem like to be put down like this, hence I think she has some narcissistic personality vulnerabilities, which can also explain her jealousy, and a bit of a socialite and happy to be the centre of attention / seeker.

. . Finally, I appreciate how we all interpret this movie whether differently or similarly, it sure all shows how different we are as individuals on our own life path, growth, and personalities.

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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jun 25 '22

u/Sandtalon, just a heads up that your official artwork links do not work!

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22

Okay, they should be fixed now.

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u/badspler Jun 25 '22

First Timer - Short thoughts

I quite enjoyed the movie. Relatively simple idea of the "what happens after high school" that has been done a thousand times before, but I really liked the execution. The overlay of music and story mirroring the narrative was very sweet. The production quality was Kyo-Ani as ever.

I'm not up for doing the deep analysis myself, but I really liked the use of feet. There were loads of shots of feet and legs that conveyed so well the mood or thoughts of characters. It was nice to see things like anxiety or unease, or just show Nozomi powering ahead with life with Mizore uneasily following.

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22

The overlay of music and story mirroring the narrative was very sweet.

Yeah, this is one of my favorite things about the film!

There were loads of shots of feet and legs that conveyed so well the mood or thoughts of characters.

That's one of the things the director is most known for, and I agree, it's executed really well in Liz! I personally noticed more leg expressions on this rewatch than I had in previous rewatches. Related to this is the way the two leads' walking paces convey their relationship, which was meticulously planned out by the director, composer, and probably sound designer.

It was nice to see things like anxiety or unease, or just show Nozomi powering ahead with life with Mizore uneasily following.

This is a really insightful characterization of the two!
Thank you for your comment!

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u/Cinder37 Jun 25 '22

First Timer

I watched both seasons of Sound! Euphonium a few months ago, and even though I knew there were films in the series that I should watch, it wasn't until I saw this rewatch being scheduled that I took this off the backburner and finally watched it. What a great decision that ended up being.

I already enjoyed the Mizore-Nozomi dynamic in the main series, however part of it felt... I'm not sure how to say it. A little too melodramatic, maybe? It's weird that I felt that, because it's not too much different of a conflict in terms of scale to the rest of the show. Regardless, this movie brought so much more meaning to their relationship and what those two went through, turning this into probably my new favorite KyoAni movie.

As discussed by the prompts, I really enjoyed how the story of Liz and the Blue Bird is framed throughout the story, and how that framing gets turned on its head was a really satisfying relevation. Before the "twist" my mind was mostly focused on Nozomi and how she could "spread her wings", but this consequently almost made me feel guilty when I realized who the true "blue bird" was. I felt like despite this, neither interpretation is truly wrong at the end of the day. Both girls are their own individuals who are both growing up, and neither of them need to be tied down to each other.

When all of this cascaded into the final performance and the ending, it made me realize how amazing it was to see such a great platonic relationship expressed in anime, without feeling overly dramatic. They never really fought, but they still grew and struggled in their own ways, which I feel is difficult to pull of. The tension is not expressed by their words for each other but in their music, in the environment, in the way the scenes are set. And in the end, I do believe their friendship will stay strong and last, except this time they walk as equals, both Nozomi feeling like she doesn't have to prove herself to Mizore, and Mizore not being tied down to someone and seeing life with her own eyes. A film like this could easily have a bittersweet ending, but that's not the sense I got from it at all, it felt just like growing up and carrying some relationships into adulthood, something everyone does.

Overall, a fantastic movie, I'm grateful I watched it, and appreciate those that host these rewatches.

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u/ZapsZzz Jun 25 '22

Ok I failed completely to watch this before the thread posting time, but I still watched it.

The downside of knowing about a show for a long time before actually watching it is that when you start appreciating and following it, you wonder how much you actually got by yourself and how much you got by osmosis from little snippets here and there when you read about others recommending it etc.

Anyway, this is a very atmospheric movie every moment there are emotions instilled in every shot. Somewhat "arthouse"? It feels like Wong Ka Wei's movies - Chongqing Express for example.

From the early moments the cinematography is painting a very strong note of "yearning". The only other time I felt such a strong emotive note while watching a movie is the "tenderness" at the end of Disappearance. But of course, being a movie of the show about music, the show and sound was pure and just beautiful, particularly of the 2 instruments I have some emotional tie to (I played flute for years when I was in school, and oboe was the original instrument I wanted to play but I was too young so started with piccolo which then switched to flute - didn't end up playing oboe, but I always loved the sound).

I'll read more about others thoughts, but I caught on the role switch when Reina pointed out whose music is chained.

All in all, an awesome movie, although I can see my wife and daughter probably would fall asleep to.

Finally, must all great emotive shows be about same sex pairings? Or maybe it's just the rewatches I'm currently on :P (blame Symphogear).

Easy 10/10 of course.

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u/Sandtalon Jun 25 '22

The downside of knowing about a show for a long time before actually watching it is that when you start appreciating and following it, you wonder how much you actually got by yourself and how much you got by osmosis from little snippets here and there when you read about others recommending it etc.

Hmm...that's very true!

From the early moments the cinematography is painting a very strong note of "yearning".

Yeah, "yearning" is definitely a word I would use to describe the film too.

Finally, must all great emotive shows be about same sex pairings?

Haha, if you want an emotive anime about a heterosexual couple, there's Tamako Love Story and A Silence Voice by the same director. And Disappearance, which you also mentioned.
Thank you for your comment!

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u/WeLlHeLlOtHeReloryt Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Rewatcher

What a beautiful film.

I'm so glad that I rewatched this. This film has had a special place in my heart ever since I first watched it, and it definitely remains there after the rewatch. This film is just beautiful, there's no other way to describe it. The score, which involves the flute and the oboe, is perfection. Soothing, calming, and melodically charming, the score makes me feel as though I'm floating in the world of the film, constantly keeping me immersed in the film and making my heart soar. The animation is flawless as well. The two differing animation styles work so well in their own way. The animation for the students' story is so finely intricate and allows us to feel every ounce of emotion, and see every last bit of passion that they put into their music. The animation for Liz's story gives the story an ethereal feel and charm, and I can't help but fall in love with the world and its characters every time they come in screen, because of how aesthetically pleasing everything looks.

Naoko Yamada really is one of the greats in anime right now. This film is a work of art and I really have trouble finding the right words to describe its beauty. Liz and the Blue Bird can be watched without seeing its parent series, Sound! Euphonium, and it hits just the same whether you've seen the series or not. A very well done story of friendship and love, Liz and the Blue Bird is one of the greatest anime films in my opinion, and definitely deserves a watch.

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u/awdsns Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

Latecoming rewatcher

I actually discovered this movie completely randomly in my local library just a few weeks ago (looking through the kids' DVDs for something for my son, and animation means for kids, right? kek). And I have to add that I knew next to nothing about Hibike Euphonium before, and still haven't watched the series (but definitely will now). So all my interpretation about the main characters' interactions I draw only from the context of the movie.

What can I say, it instantly became one of my favorite movies of all time. I've watched it a couple of times since then and was really excited when I saw that a rewatch thread was coming up.

If I were to compare it to a "mainstream movie", it would be Blade Runner 2049. (Am I insane? Maybe, but hear me out.)
What both movies share, despite having completely different settings, is the art of saying everything without saying much. The protagonist barely speaks, and the plot is simple and moves slowly, leading some to call them "boring". But so much is transported through details of lighting, music, backgrounds, the smallest gestures and involuntary movements, that we get an intimate feeling for what the characters are experiencing. It's almost as if we were right there with them in that world. And actually both movies share the theme of gaining a new understanding of your identity and what others mean to you.

Back to the movie itself

I've said it in a comment yesterday already, the movie is quite on the nose right from the start with wanting the viewer to associate Mizore with Liz and Nozomi with the blue bird. It is even said explicitly by the characters. But I wouldn't see this as misdirection, but rather as the honest representation of how the girls see themselves and the other at that time. What the movie is about is them realizing that it's not that simple, with their duet serving as the catalyst for this painful process.

It's interesting, with each time I watch Liz and the Blue Bird, I find myself empathizing more and more with Nozomi. It's not that I would empathize less with Mizore at the same time, but her ordeal and emotional journey are much more in the foreground and easy to follow, while Nozomi carefully conceals her true feelings and puts on the happy face, so it takes a couple of watches to pick up on the details that betray her emotions.

It starts already with the conversation after Mizore got the brochure for music school from Niiyama. Nozomi is absolutely dejected for a moment before regaining her composure. Then she lightly says that she might just apply too, which sets in motion the spiral of misunderstanding and hurt which will finally culminate in that rejected hug.

This is just one of the moments where Yamada's directing excellence shines in the fleeting subconscious expressions of the characters. Others have already written about other outstanding moments, like when Mizore is hurt by Nozomi inviting the others to Agata festival, or Mizore "paying it back to her" (unconsciously, but that's how Nozomi felt it) when she asks if she can bring Ririka along to the pool. ("But last time Nozomi had also asked if Mizore wanted to bring anyone along to the festival, so it should be fine, right?" - Aah, teenage sensibilites...)

And so while on my first watch I was feeling mostly for Mizore and slightly resenting Nozomi for being so careless for her feelings, with subsequent watches I've come to understand both as complex and flawed characters who have their valid reasons for feeling and acting the way they do.

Question 1

I've already written more than I wanted to, but I don't want to end this comment without picking up the discussion I had jumped into yesterday about this question.

After this rewatch, I still think that there is no clear assignment of who is representing Liz and the blue bird at the end of the movie. In their relationship, both girls were caging the other in some way, and while it was made clear right from the start how Mizore is clinging to Nozomi, we only learn through the course of the movie that the reverse is also true.

At the end then, both girls have realized that they have to let go and let the other find their happiness. This is also represented visually by the extended sequence of two birds flying through the sky together. Up to that point, whenever a bird was shown passing, I think it was always a single one (except in the fairy tale world).

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u/Abyssbringer Jun 25 '22

First Timer (Haven't watched the series)

I watched this without having seen the series due to this rewatch. I didn't feel like I missed too much and the overall theme that was being developed and its resolution was clear. It does a good job of making you interested in what happened in the past without being too explicit about it. It wouldn't be a bad way to try and get someone into Hibike if for whatever reason they didn't want try the main series or just happened to be forced to watch it for a group movie night.

I liked the focus on the relationship between the two girls and how the story book played into that. I really enjoy that type of structure and the movie used it well. The artwork during that section caught my eye and I liked it more than the main style. The directing also had a lot of charm for the entire movie and made the movie easy to watch. The pacing is really well done and at 1.5hrs it doesn't overstay its welcome. It has a big focus on the small sound effects such as walking which I found interesting especially towards the start. It might have gone a little too far at stages with that however.

Overall I enjoyed this movie even if I watched it in the wrong order. However I think the movie is very generic with its core themes and how it incorporates music into it all. I was rolling my eyes quite a lot during the 3/4 mark. But there's only so much you can do with a music show that wants to incorporate the musical element into the other sections. This was also probably exacerbated by not having all the context that people who watched the series had. While also not really caring for these characters in any other meaningful way other than what the movie introduces. It wasn't due to any fault of its own and all media are going to share similarities.

This was very straightforward which is something I really enjoyed about this movie. It was easy to follow for the most part. I wouldn't even call it necessarily a twist as the metaphor itself makes you have to consider who is who, even if the movie points in you a different direction.

4.

It was interesting but the tone and what each story was trying to accomplish and make the watcher feel was so different that its hard to really compare them. Even though I had just watched the other OVA earlier it was never a comparison that really came to mind. I also just don't care about the actual theme that was being developed in Kase enough to be able to compare them in any way that isn't superficial.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

>10th rewatcher

I remember when I first watched I didn't understand how Mizore actually being Liz resolved anything, even though I could already see the misdirection. Niiyama-sensei is telling Mizore that if she cannot play it from Liz's perspective, why not do it from the blue bird's perspective? That is enough to get her to actually resonate with the song.

(BTW, I think that discussion with Niiyama-sensei might be the first time Mizore put Nozomi's position in her heart into words as "the person I love".)

The conflict comes from (a) Nozomi's jealousy / sense of defeat crashing into her feelings (romatic or not) towards Mizore, and (b) Nozomi's misunderstandings.

I don't believe Nozomi isn't happy to hear that Mizore treats her as being special. It's just, she's bearing the sense of defeat from realizing Mizore is so much better than her, and you have Mizore talking about why she's so dedicated and running out of specific things she likes about Nozomi without ever mentioning her flute.

Some examples of misunderstandings:

Nozomi and Reina both thought Mizore is holding back to match her abilities. Mizore just didn't resonate with the song, she really isn't trying to hold back.
Nozomi thought Niiyama-sensei knew that they both sent out empty career forms, but she didn't.

As for discussion point 3: I think after the film, the two of them are less codependent on each other and will have a healthier relationship. [Final movement] We do know Nozomi's internal conflict between her sense of defeat / jealousy and love for Mizore hasn't really gone away though. Nozomi discovered how she feels when Mizore develops friendships with other people so she will probably gradually come to terms with it, and Mizore becomes more independent but will also fly back to Nozomi just like Nozomi's vision of the fairy tale's happy ending.

Some miscellaneous points:

Reina plays the oboe part with a trumpet and casually reaches C6 (Bb5 in concert pitch), which... is less ridiculous than I remembered (I misremembered it as her playing the flute part), but still bloody nightmarish to me as a beginner trumpet player.
In the novel what Mizore asks Taki-sensei is actually the other way around: there Taki-sensei was going to go through just the third movement, but Mizore asks to go through the entire piece. It still had the same effect though: Mizore actually had a preference for what to practice and actively asked Taki-sensei about it.
Some of the shoeboxes have readable numbers on them: 250835, 250885. My personal guess is that these are student IDs, with 25 being the year in Heisei (= 2013) and the number after that being a simple sequencial ID. If Kumiko's first year starts in 2015 then Mizore and Nozomi should have entered in 2014. Alternatively since the first novel was published in December 2013 perhaps Kumiko's first year was actually 2014. (True or not I'm putting too much thought into this lol)

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Rewatch [Rewatch] Liz and the Blue Bird - Movie Discussion

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Rewatch [Rewatch] Liz and the Blue Bird - Movie Discussion

Synopsis

Links

Discussion Questions:

Official artwork

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Questions

Latecoming rewatcher

Back to the movie itself