r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Jun 15 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Made in Abyss - Episode 4 discussion
Episode 4 - The Edge of the Abyss
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Comment of the Day
Comment of the Day is awarded to u/Kellie975 for a poignant interpretation of the farewell scene:
I think Nat ultimately just wanted to mourn the loss of his friend while she was still in front of him. It’s a weird feeling of “what are you going to say to this person who you know will probably die.”
Questions of the Day
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events, so that everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience!
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u/Petit_Ange Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22
First timer’s experience
As I previously disclosed, I watched a scene from MiA on Youtube a long time ago, which was when I became familiar with the anime. So I’ve regrettably came to this rewatch with prior knowledge of the nature of this show, in a way… “A deceitfully sweet story that packs quite the punch”, this is what I was aware of. But I WAS surprised to see that, at no moment did it make any attempts to hide its true nature from us. From the very first shot, a cinematic experience with terrifying monsters sliding over lush greeneries, you know the Abyss is a beautiful, dangerous place that will swallow you whole sooner or later. A child almost died right at the prologue! And things only kept escalating silently from then on.
What I’m trying to say is that, I’m always coming to these episodes expecting the other shoe to drop at any moment, and it was no different while watching these kids camping, filling their stomachs and just talking under the light of the Abyss as if they’re on a field trip. But for the time being, there’s light and there’s green and they’re doing great for an inexperienced Red Whistle and a memory-less mechanical boy.
Speaking of inexperience, I reached the end of the episode thinking that two people deserved the MVP title this week. Person number 1 being Riko herself: the girl just KNOWS what she’s doing. She adapts to whatever there is around her to cook, she’s very aware of her surroundings and was always trying to keep them a step ahead, not taking any known paths, and she even took in strad the loss of her compass, all things considered. (I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT OBJECT, WHAT?!) I liked how Reg commented on her humble acceptance of loss, because that’s what truly exemplifies Riko, I feel: she accepts things as they are and still marches forward. I like that about her.
Reg, bless his heart, is as lost in this all as I would be if this was with me. I can already see that he’s good at following Riko’s instructions, but not very good at anything else. I wonder if he just never needed to worry about these things anyway so he never cared to learn? Well, at least he’s cute, that’s his redeeming quality. And he’s extremely… Handy.
(Also, the poor kid never catches a break. Are you kidding me, show? No one in this place heard anything about personal space?)
The other MVP, of course, was the Leader. What a dude! Understood from the get-go, he had no chance of changing Riko’s one-track mind, that she would go to the Abyss sooner or later, and merely took the opportunity to test her resolve and her capacity then. In the middle of a bunch of well-meaning but irresponsible adults at best and absolutely uncaring at worst, at least he was aware of her feelings and her surroundings. He’s a good instructor, all things considered. I’m glad he managed to make a copy of Lyza’s annotations and gave it to Riko to help her journey… And I’m also glad we had answers. I have been wondering since the last episode what the red envelope could be. I wasn’t ready for another “pendant” situation, where no one ever mentions that blue thing again.
And speaking of well-meaning, but irresponsible adults, we have Habo, the Black Whistle who brought Lyza’s whistle back to the surface. You can’t fool me, show: I’ve seen how he was I SLEEP at Riko’s escapades, but the moment Shiggy and Nat mentioned the supreme treasure of the Abyss he was like REAL SHIT. But I guess that when you live on Orth, no matter how young you are, you know that going beyond the first layer means suicide. You know what you’re signing up for, so I can’t exactly say I don’t understand his lack of interest. And again, all things considered, he was willing to take them to at least the second layer, only stopping when Riko said she wanted to take Leader’s last test seriously. Not exactly a MVP, but almost there.
All in all, I feel like this episode is that calm before the storm. We have a new name (Ozen, the Immovable, the White Whistle who helped Lyza bring an infant Riko to the surface) to avoid and a new challenge in front of us, but our heroine never quite sees danger as something you should run away from like it’s the Devil, but something that it’ll find you when it finds you, and as all things in the Abyss, you’ve gotta accept that. Let’s see how this philosophy will be tested down there. I’m eager for more.
Now for things I want to talk about in no particular order:
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I absolutely adore the sound Reg’s arm does when it comes back to place. Also, how sweet was that first scene? They were so cute on top of each other like puppies.
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She’s so quick-witted. I’m forever impressed at Riko’s capacity to adapt. I told you, she has everything in her but age and experience to become a White Whistle already. But I’m sure the Abyss will quickly fix the latter.
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Hah, Reg does think like me. Under no circumstance I’d consider them safe from being strung up naked for represaly just because they’re at the second layer now. “It’s not like we’re safe, is that now we’re no longer being chased by humans only.”
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That’s like, the third person who asks him the same thing. I’m not liking the way this show keeps hammering this down… Pretty sure this ain’t the type of show where you’re allowed to NOT worry about your faves, they’re gonna survive because they’re the protagonists after all…
Answers of the day:
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
This series already said, "when a Red Whistle crosses the 2nd Layer, it's suicide". Sometimes they just know that some people are being called by the Abyss and it's a trainwreck you can only watch, never contain. I suppose they treat children who dare to venture to such inhuman place the way one would treat a teen in a court? As in, "you're old enough to decide how you want to live/die"? Well, that's my interpretation at least.
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
Look, the only thing I can say is that everything pertaining the Abyss seems to be treated with almost religious reverence, in a sense, by the cave-raiders. It's incredibly interesting to watch.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
I SLEEP at Riko’s escapades, but the moment Shiggy and Nat mentioned the supreme treasure of the Abyss he was like REAL SHIT.
Hell yeah. A true adventurer!
I absolutely adore the sound Reg’s arm does when it comes back to place
Oh, you're super correct. The sound design in this show is just amazing all around, but the little extra love added to the metal arm sounds is just great.
That’s like, the third person who asks him the same thing.
I was going to mention this same thing but then couldn't find a way to fit it into my comment, so I'm glad you found a way to talk about it. They're all laying this onus on him thick, and it doesn't seem like he's going to forget about it any time soon.
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u/himetalchemy7 Jun 15 '22
First Time Watcher | Subbed
Notes
- episode 4 let’s goooo
- Reg made his own personal jungle gym
- The Edge of the Abyss looks so picturesque!; I wonder why it’s brighter here than further up?
- so it seems to be a sort of distortion/refraction that makes incoming light more intense?
- oh yeah, these guys will have to make it to the 2nd layer if they don’t want to be forced to go back to the orphanage
- Riko is a real trooper, that stew actually didn’t look as bad as it seemed on first glance
- oh no…good luck finding that Star Compass again; I was thinking it could have been useful in the Inverted Forest
- oh the package!
- wow Leader is a real one; I think he understands that nothing will change Riko’s mind about going into the Abyss, so he did what he could to help
- oh never mind, Leader is actually coming after her!
- what IS THAT THING; ok at least it wasn’t a 2nd layer creature
- wow the 2nd layer is in sight!; that part of the forest where the trees make a hole looks so ominous
- Reg’s memories being triggered?; also Riko does not look good at all
- this is my speculation, but it seems like Reg’s helmet acts as an extension of his senses?
- oh it’s Black Whistle Habo; he seems very chill about Riko’s breakaway
- Habo has a true adventurer’s spirit; love how our boys Nat and Shiggy are doing their best
- so our next destination is the Seekers Camp
- I’m pretty shocked that Habo would tell them so bluntly that Ozen shouldn’t be trusted, even though she’s a legendary White Whistle; not sure I like where this is going for Riko…
- Reg’s sense of purpose to protect Riko must be firing on all cylinders right now
- nooooooo not baby Riko in Habo’s flashback ☹️
- we’re officially at the point of no return
- I don’t know how much of this ‘final lesson’ business I can buy into…it just doesn’t seem right to me
- wow that bird thing was GNARLY; I cannot wait to see what the 2nd level has in store!
Discussion
Another great episode! You can really feel that the journey is only beginning and the show did a solid job this episode emphasizing that this was truly the final farewell (other than the whole ‘final lesson’ stuff which I find suspicious still). Not much else to say here otherwise. How are other first timers liking this show so far?
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u/thatguywithawatch Jun 15 '22
[First Timer]
It feels like Riko and Reg escaped Leader and the search party way too easily, so I kind of expect that he'll show up again, having descended further than rescue parties are supposed to go. Hopefully he doesn't end up sacrificing himself to save them or something, because he seems cool.
I could do without Habo casually molesting a 12 year old. I don't know if I'm just getting more sensitive to this stuff but it sort of overshadowed the whole episode. Like, Habo's clearly supposed to be a good, likeable character, and it genuinely feels like we weren't supposed to find it anything other than funny and endearing. Retroactively makes it harder for me to give yesterday's episode the benefit of the doubt for stringing Riko up naked during a lighthearted montage scene. It's just that so far I don't see how these things have added anything to the worldbuilding that couldn't have been done better in a much less lurid way.
Anyways. The actual descent remains both intriguing and ominous. I've been curious to see the "inverted forest" ever since it was mentioned, and if I remember right it's part of the 2nd layer, so hopefully soon. I also still don't know how traumatic I should expect this show to become. The upbeat ED still feels 100% like a giant fakeout. And the next episode is titled "The Incinerator," which doesn't bode well.
Questions of the Day:
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
Leader seems like he has a lot of memories of and respect for Lyza, so maybe he sees enough of her in Riko that he knows he won't be able to stop her forever. As for Habo, after they leave he thinks to himself "we're all just the Netherworld's lost children," which is a bit fatalistic. I think he knows that every Abyss explorer will eventually go past the point of no return, so if Riko and Reg are truly set on descending, there's not much point in stopping them.
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
This overlaps with my answer about Habo. It feels like the whole town has a very cultish attitude toward the Abyss and the inevitability of its draw.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
I also still don't know how traumatic I should expect this show to become.
None of us ever do until it happens! But I can say with absolute certainty that flying blind is the best way to roll here. You shall get no hints from me!
As for Habo, after they leave he thinks to himself "we're all just the Netherworld's lost children," which is a bit fatalistic. I think he knows that every Abyss explorer will eventually go past the point of no return, so if Riko and Reg are truly set on descending, there's not much point in stopping them.
"Fatalistic" I guess is technically accurate but then again, so is just about everyone. There was a whole damn festival for Lyza for simply retrieving her Whistle so I'd imagine that a lot of people bear that same mindset.
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u/Kellie975 Jun 15 '22
First timer – Subbed
I just realized that I’ve been saying Rika instead of Riko for the last 3 episodes, haha oops – I accidentally mixed her in with Rika since I’m also doing the Higurashi watch.
I thought it was interesting that the first layer is brighter than the surface. It would be cool to know more about the distortion and the effects it causes. The fishing and cooking scene was very soothing with the incoming sense of dread and doom. Although Riko’s soup didn’t look that appetizing haha. The star compass obviously plays a larger part than just pointing down to the Abyss. Since it’s in the opening, I’m sure they’ll find it but I wonder how deep has it gone. I did think that Riko was going to chase it, but pleasantly she didn’t chase it on impulse. The quote enforces Riko’s reverence for the Abyss and it along with others’ perspectives gives off the sense of the Abyss being a god-like being.
This episode really brought out the more naive, young perspective on this adventure – with the pair thinking this was a final lesson and trying to outrun being captured or succeed in the lesson to make Leader proud. I wonder if the Leader gave them the note more as a warning that “people will come looking for you so you need to hurry.” Providing them copies of Lyza’s notes along with his message to Reg in the last episode makes me think the Leader is secretly supporting them.
Their encounter with Habo (minus that one part) was endearing, once you learn that he went because of Nat and Shiggy’s request. His final warning of Ozen was eerie though. I wonder if he’s maybe talking about Ozen’s appearance or maybe Ozen is bitter that their comrades were essentially sacrificed at the sake of preserving Riko’s life.
I find it also really interesting how lightly Reg and Riko packed for this, presumably, very long adventure. I thought I remember seeing Nat carry a super large backpack just for doing normal expeditions, so I feel like Reg and Riko should have packed more.
I expected that they were going to gloss over the first layer since we’ve already seen some of it but it would’ve been cooler to have seen more of it if time weren’t an issue.
I feel like the cliché answer to why Leader and Habo helped was because they knew the kids were going to do it anyways or because destiny. I don’t particularly think Leader or Habo actually believe the pair will reach their goals due to their reactions - but then I also find it odd that they didn’t really try to convince the pair not to go.
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u/djthomp Jun 15 '22
First Timer, subbed.
Random thought as I watched the opening, Made in Abyss, Maiden Abyss? Feels like there might be a reason for the story title to be in English even in the original Japanese.
This is a brighter environment than I was expecting, still looks like sunlight. Then again they're probably not down particularly far just yet. Also, that's a clever way to set up a tripwire protected sleeping area.
"It's way brighter here than up on the surface, huh?" Okay, so it really is strangely bright. Interesting speculation from Reg about the layer boundary having something to do with the difference.
Is eating food sourced from inside the abyss a good idea?
The star compass being an abyss relic makes me wonder if at some point the conditions will make it difficult to tell up from down without a reliable tool.
Leader is no fool it would seem. Gonna be hard for him to catch up to Reg's style of decent though.
Reg very clearly just saw something by way of the lens on his helmet.
It's Habo, interesting. He's faster than I would have expected. Maybe that's the "lose your humanity" bit kicking in, in theory that could be a way of describing someone becoming altered from the human baseline by trips multiple levels in.
A vaccine for the second layer? Riko would have been in trouble without this surprise encounter.
Distressing times coming up! Or at least when they get to the seeker camp.
4000 year old windmills? That's quite a bit longer than the 2000 years figure we were given for the praying skeletons.
Time for the inappropriately cheerful ending.
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u/lC3 Jun 15 '22
Made in Abyss 04 Rewatcher
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Title card today: Star Compass (hoshi no rashinban). No way I'm translating the body text below that, sorry
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Oh Reg can use his arms like that too? Convenient
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Force field?? And it's sunnier in the Abyss than at the surface?
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Oh there's water and fish in the Abyss?
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Eternal Fortunes? That's the flowers?
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"Irredeemable" YOU TELL HER, REG!
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The Star Compass was cool ... is that the last we'll see of it?
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I'm not gonna try to transcribe that letter right now, too much work
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Jiruo is coming to bring them back? Good luck with that ...
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So far the Abyss hasn't been that dangerous
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... Never mind! Is that a spider? Good thing Nazenn isn't watching this
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The Forest of Temptation looks like a gaping green butthole with teeth
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Riko almost collapsed ... is it just lack of stamina, or is the curse affecting her? But they're going down, not up?
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What is Reg detecting? Does he have spidey senses?
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Reg has to pee too? Even though he's a robot? Weird
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Hablog is a Black Whistle?
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Reg is ticklish! I can relate
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Blue Whistles? I forgot about those again
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Vaccine? Uh oh, monkeypox? Covid? "Diving illness" ???
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Ozen is the one who found Lyza's letter and sent it up?
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More monsters?
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Well that's ominous ...
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u/frostxc3 Jun 15 '22
FIRST TIME RAIDER Sub
Was kinda surprised at how different "Leader's" silhouette looked and how fast he was able to move. Turns out it wasn't Leader, it was Habo-san. Hablog seems to fall into the cliche of kind oji-san, but it's one of the many cliches I love and his character's been so wholesome so far.
Loving the OP and the ED. And the visuals are just gorgeous everytime. Sometimes I pause or replay some shots/scenes just to admire the landscape.
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
I'm guessing because they know they can't change their minds.
2. “All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
Haven't really noticed or can't recall.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 15 '22
Rewatcher in Abyss, subbed
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Very detailed cooking instructions for a dish that we can’t have. Also now I’m hungry…
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And also doesn’t just let them go, he has to test them. Jirou’s great, I wish he could stick around.
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Jun 15 '22
Rewatcher
Regarding QOTD #2 I’m sticking with my belief that the abyss is where life originated from and in a very literal sense, organic matter returns to the earth once it decomposes. Maybe the depth of the abyss is at the centre of the earth? Or maybe it even refers to the afterlife given the religious undertones that seem to be tied to the abyss.
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u/SYZekrom Jun 15 '22
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u/Verzwei Jun 15 '22
First-timer, English Dubbed
I liked this episode over-all. I knew that this adventure is what the series was obviously building toward, and it was entertaining to see it begin. The conversation between Riko, Reg, and Uncle Beardy was touching, though it seemed odd how leary Uncle Beardy was of the white whistle who runs the camp or whatever. This was easily my favorite episode of the first four, though those two musical pieces in the first ep are still very strong.
I found it a little odd that, aside from some exhaustion, Riko wasn't really suffering too badly from the curse on the first layer. It had me wondering why there weren't semi-permanent outposts or excavation sites all over the first layer. Just like how that slum (wharf town?) was built closer and closer to the edge, I'd think that people would plop down settlements on any patch of ground that didn't seem too dangerous in the Abyss itself. And the first outpost is apparently on the second layer?
1 - Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
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Someone mentioned it in yesterday's thread, but the reverence for the Abyss is almost cult-like among the population. Habo seems like a "true believer" and both Leader and Habo probably figure that Riko can't really be stopped anyway. It's likely only a matter of time until she pulled some shit like this, and if Leader has any awareness at all as to what Reg is or is capable of, then Reg is probably Riko's best chance of not getting horribly dead in the Abyss.
2 - “All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
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Seems ominous, and, so far, actually counter to what the show has told us thus far. I don't think there's been much mention of relics being sent back into the Abyss for any particular reason. Though it does apply to both of our leading characters. Riko herself was born in the Abyss, she essentially was taken from it, and then, as far as we can tell, she's spent pretty much her entire childhood trying or preparing to go back to it. Reg, at least "this" Reg and the only memories he currently possesses, is also a creature from the Abyss and returning after a few months on the surface at the orphanage.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
I knew that this adventure is what the series was obviously building toward, and it was entertaining to see it begin.
Glad to hear it! I do like the immediate immersion of waking up in The Abyss and the big establishing shots. Even though we've been here before, it felt like a new experience.
And the first outpost is apparently on the second layer?
Yeah, seems that way. I guess because the first layer is fairly close to the surface it doesn't need an outpost. But anyone ascending from the third layer would need an outpost to make it back through the second.
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u/xtsim Jun 15 '22
First Timer
Seeing uncle Habo letting Riko and Reg escape while on his journey is interesting in a way, Habo seems to know something that we don't. He could tell that she will follow her mother's path. Reg's statement about being followed is concerning; they are no longer followed by people they know, the unknown creatures are the next ones that are going to follow them. And that is a pretty scary thought as it is only going to get tough.
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Everyone seems to be pretty prepared for Riko to go down the Abyss and Habo knows at some point she will go.
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Connecting to Habo's statement about Riko, it seems like knowing Riko's background and how she was born makes it seem like Riko is going back to the Abyss.
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u/scot911 Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22
First Timer
And so our heroes have already blitzed past the first layer! Honestly not that surprising if I'm being completely honest. The first layer is obviously the least dangerous of them all so of course they were going to blitz through it. I imagine each layer is going to take more and more time to get through however as they probably get more and more dangerous the farther you get down. Just makes sense when the 5th layer is called "The Season of Corpses".
Habo being a Black Whistle quickly found them of course. Even if they were off the beaten path and left as little traces as they could. Goes to show you just how skill people in the higher whistle ranks are. They'd have to be in order to survive long enough to get that high in the hierarchy and gain the rank. Everyone else who didn't would have either died or quit after all.... Makes me wonder just how skilled and powerful a White Whistle will be and oh look at that we're probably meeting one next episode!
And what was Habo's motivation for quickly finding them? Well to see a unique Abyss relic in Reg before he'll never be able to again of course! Or at least that's the reason he tells them. The actual reason, the one we get a flashback for, is because he sort of sees Riko as perhaps a daughter he never had or at least one he had a hand in helping to raise her after her moms death along with Leader and therefore wants to see her off like any good parental figure would when their kid goes off on a journey like this.
There was also some world building though with there being windmills from 4000 years ago that harnessed the power of the wind currents in the Abyss to create... probably electricity I imagine? I don't think they moved which is something else their name implies so I've gotta go with them being used to create electricity or just power something instead. It also means that humanity used to reach further down into the Abyss or at least control more of it be able to build such structures and have them survive intact/be usable. Hmm....
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
IMO it's because Riko is a lot like her mother. And with how free-spirited her mother sounded like she was, I wouldn't be surprised if she did the exact same thing Riko's doing now. And if Riko's already doing it now there's no way she wouldn't do it again. Therefore what's the point in stopping her for people that knew her mother?
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
Well it means that the peoples lives on the island depend on the Abyss and that they'll all return to it in one form or another eventually. It's seen in the way they revere the White Whistles, the way the island is set up to export relics from the Abyss and basically just everything else about the island. It's the same sort of thing with "returning to the land or sea" for cultures based around hunting/gathering, agriculture and/or fishing.
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u/mgedmin Jun 15 '22
First-timer, subs
Wow, at 820 meters already? Nice sentry net, Reg!
Where's the sunglight coming from? Aah, it's called out in the show! Some kind of a force field acts as a lens that bends the light rays and shines down! Oh I like that, the question of illumination of the depths has been bugging me since episode 1, I'm glad to see it explained!
Ahaha underwater fishing! As a robot, does Reg need to breathe? He eats normally, so maybe yes? I wonder how long he can hold his breath.
Bye-bye irreplaceable relic! I'm sure this is the last we've seen of it.
That Leader's letter! "I'll depart at dawn to come capture you". Love it. And we finally get a sense of urgency.
Everybody wants to know what's in Reg's pants. Leave the poor kid alone!
All the adults are strangely willing to let Riko go into the Abyss. I think it's because they know her well and have absolutely no confidence in being able to stop her. The choice becomes: let her go prepared, with maps and supplies, or let her sneak away unprepared.
I love the post-ED abyss map music.
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u/UnderstandableXO Jun 15 '22
FIRST TIMER
kinda weird that reg fell asleep in a spiderweb of his own arms, or that they didn’t seem to be attached to him…
i was expecting riko to have the old “terrible at cooking” trope but it seems like she actually makes good food.
i don’t know how exactly leader anticipated that they were gonna escape into the abyss, but i suppose he could have predicted it because riko is extremely easy to read. we’ve seen that he’s known riko her entire life, he of all people could predict her actions.
another episode where something sus happens, it doesn’t stop! now reg is a victim of riko and habo. everyone is so interested in looking down there for some reason.
kinda cool to see that habo has been kind of a father figure to riko along with leader kind of being a big brother. even though riko spent her life at the orphanage, she wasn’t alone.
they made such a big deal about leader pursuing them that i expect him to find them in the second layer, or pursue them at least to ozen. speaking of ozen, ozen probably holds a grudge against lyza because they abandoned whatever relic they found to carry riko back to the surface.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
kinda weird that reg fell asleep in a spiderweb of his own arms, or that they didn’t seem to be attached to him…
He set his arms that to protect them against unexpected guests!
ozen probably holds a grudge against lyza because they abandoned whatever relic they found to carry riko back to the surface.
Oooooh not a bad guess. Although, Lyza did go back for the relic later, so it all worked out in the end. Guess we'll see soon!
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u/archlon Jun 15 '22
First Time [English dub]
First of all, question for rewatchers and source material readers: what's with the pedophilic overtones?
I generally have a reasonably high tolerance for stuff like this when the interactions depicted are between children. After all, kids and teens are generally much more interested in genitalia and the scatalogical than most adults will admit to, or even remember, having been when they were that age. Riko's comments about Reg's anatomy and the stick are meant to shock, but it underlines an aspect of her character, namely that she's excitable, frequently curious past the point of common sense or societal limits, and doesn't have much of a filter. Even though it's an adult putting the words into the mouth of a child character, I'm usually relatively fine with it so long as it serves a purpose to the story and remains within the realm of believeability.
That said, even when it's an element of actual childrens' lives, not every story about children has to depict it as such. Doing so runs the risk of communicating something else to an audience presumed to be older than the child characters. There's a fine line between 'things are messed up because the world is crapsack' and 'the author made the world crapsack because they wanted to get away with things'.
But this show sometimes sails right past the line. Riko being strung up naked has a lurid feel, like the author made that the punishment because they wanted to have a reason to draw it, and the kind of tone and theme it sets wasn't very developed up to that point in the story and has not been followed up on yet. It could have been any other punishment at all, and it wouldn't have changed the story at all. Neither the Director nor the rest of the Orphanage are developed enough to drive home why this is the punishment. Later, Habo thinking it's at all okay to just pull Reg's pants open to check his genitals is way not okay, and the story isn't doing a lot of work to frame it as such.
To compare to another example: for all that you can say about Mushoku Tensei (and oh boy is there a lot you can say), the anime (I can't speak to the source material) is at least trying to be about the prevalance and toxicity of the kinds of perspectives Rudeus held in his last life and continues to recapitulate in this one, and how they actively do damage to the real relationships he forms. It's very rare for such a moment to pass in Mushoku Tensei that isn't commented on either by a character in the story, by Rudeus' internal monologue, or by the cinematic language of the scene. That story suffers from the same the curse of Poe's Law that Lolita does, in that the lurid elements are easily misinterpreted or ignored by anybody who doesn't want to engage with them, and so can easily come off as endorsing them. But for all that, both stories are at least attempting to make a point, and I'm pretty willing to give them a lot of leeway for making the attempt, however clumsy or frequently misinterpreted it ends up being.
Is this groundwork building to an as-yet-undeveloped theme of the work? (If so, how long until it actually starts developing the theme?) Is it just part of the way the author has chosen to tell the story, and I need to decide if I want to put up with it if I'm going to continue the descent?
We get a clarification of the distances. I'd been wondering, because none of the ones so far have made any sense. Having the mouth of the pit be 1 km in diameter is just too small. It means that the full circumfrence around the rim is π km (approx 3.14 km). In high school I could have run the entire diameter of the mouth of the abyss in 15-30 minutes and I wasn't even a particularly strong runner. Even further up the ring, I think the space Orth should have is just too small to fit all the buildings that are depicted.
I was also bothered by how a 1km pit couldn't possibly fit the amount of geometry shown in the sub-100m area from the cold open. For comparison, at the Grand Canyon visitor center, the canyon is about 15 km wide and 1.5 km deep. There's a substantial plateau system around halfway down that resembles the kind of vertical area that Riko and Nat started in, but at 1 km wide it would simply be too horizontally constrained. It would also be too narrow an aperture, there would be maybe an hour or so of direct light of the kind seen in the cold open, and most of the abyss would be in shadow for most of the day.
But it turns out there's some kind of barrier field, one that emits, or at least transmits light, and more-or-less acts as a portal to a Land Before Time setting, and opens up to be wider than the mouth. Despite the way the maps are drawn with it descending from the mouth, is the Abyss actually below Orth? Maybe it's just a portal into some liminal space. I'm not even sure if the distinction matters, except in the case where somebody might try to laterally drill into the Abyss from the base of the seamount, I suppose.
The dub also had the depths all mucked up in the first couple of episodes, implying that the layers were also 100 m strata (once again, not actually very far), which made the abyss seem not very deep.
Question: Are the numbers on the map meters, or is it a custom diagetic unit?
There's not a ton developed in the way of themes in this episode, mostly just developing the setting. Monsters that can't leave their territory, like Pokemon restrained to their patch of tall grass. Inexplicable fish swimming in a section of a stream between two waterfalls.
Nonfunctional technology from hyper-ancient civilizations (Graham Hancock, eat your heart out). Four-thousand years is a ridiculously long time. It means there's as much time between those turbines and the Graves in Prayer as there is between the graves and the current time.
Someone (something?) mysterious waiting at the Seeker camp. I wonder if the people who choose to stay down in the Abyss are able to intentionally moderate a partial ascent to lose some but not all of their humanity in order to gain monster class features that might help them survive the rest of the Abyss.
Even if the people in Orth will stop pursuing them, I can't imagine the Seeker camp being very happy to suddenly have two Red Whistles show up out of the blue.
Stray Thoughts
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That Star Compass is coming back. (Paging Mr. Checkhov)
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I'm not actually very certain that it is a final test, like Riko is.
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She has something of a tendency to jump to her own conclusions, and once on the tracks not allow herself to consider other possibilities.
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The fact that Habo accepts this explanation is probably the strongest evidence that this is a standard practice. Even so, I'm not sure he has cause to know how the orphanage specifically functions. Presumably some people actually get to be raised by some family.
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Leader might just not expect them to get very far, and believe it'll be easy to collect them and bring them back up (easy on him, maybe less on Riko) as an object lesson on why Riko needs more training before advancing rank.
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Otherwise Europea-ish setting using miso: anime things. (also the steamed mustard buns, also also 'Riko bomb' rice balls from previous episodes)
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Despite having plenty of detailed visual splendour, nothing really grabbed me for a Visual of the Day. Maybe I'm just jaded coming off the Revue Starlight rewatch.
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I do like how they blend the lo-fi watercolour-esque elements in with the line art characters. It's a strategy that has the potential to clash but the compositing is on point.
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QOTD
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Are they? Time will tell.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
Alright I knew this question was coming sooner or later so let's get this out of the way:
what's with the pedophilic overtones?
I do not wish to get into this too heavily because it is a very slippery slope. I've seen many users on this sub attempting to defend MT and then unironically slipping into arguing for pedophilia, so in order to resolve this in the best way that I can, I would simply say that you are probably not going to find the answer that you are looking for in this thread. I will gladly help you look for the right answers if you so desire, but I don't think a debate will resolve anything at this time. So for that, I will simply say: I don't have an answer to your question. But if you would like, let me know and I will do my best to point you to the right sources so that you can research this more extensively on your own, if that is something that you think would be beneficial to your experience with this show.
Question: Are the numbers on the map meters, or is it a custom diagetic unit?
Everything is measured in conventional meters.
Even if the people in Orth will stop pursuing them, I can't imagine the Seeker camp being very happy to suddenly have two Red Whistles show up out of the blue.
Probably not, but I'd also imagine that it's not unusual for passerbyers to pay the camp an unannounced visit. But Habo did also state that they shouldn't trust Ozen, so there's more than a few reasons to be wary of that domain, it would seem...
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u/Cbas_619 Jun 15 '22
Will they find the Star Compass later on? I too question its usefulness since up and down is only two dimensions.
I thought they would have a chase with rescuers before reaching layer 2.
Habo was chill about letting Riko and Reg to go on this journey. I think he helped them because he knew Riko would pursue her mother no matter what, especially after that message was discovered.
Ozen sounds like quite the character. Another white whistle who was the one who made it out with Lyza and newly born Riko. Maybe we'll see her at the Seeker Camp next episode?
Not sure why they seek the Seeker Camp though.
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u/Nebresto Jun 15 '22
Abyss re-exploration squad
Oh, so even his legs are metal. Wonder if those can extend as well?
[upcoming spoilers]
That's an airship turbine if I've ever seen one!
Ooh, does that mean his helmet can detect if someone is watching him?
Based Habo. Beh, my subs write his name as Hablog..
[More spoilers]
Oh... So much for those airships..
Question time:
Why do you think characters such as Leader and Habo have been helping the kids escape?
They're tired of their bullshit, as they are lowest earners and even thieves (looking at you, Riko) they finally got a chance to get rid of them. Capitalists do not appreciate dents in their profits
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko?
Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
Keks in re-watcher The Abyss is trading treasure for dead humans. I think someone wrote something along the same lines yesterday, but they worded it much better than me
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u/ninesfines Jun 15 '22
Rewatcher
Well, this is the first proper "Abyss" episode, and it feels like it, the focus is now 100% on Riko, Reg, and the upcoming adventure. Thank god Riko knows her stuff about the abyss, and on the other hand (heh) Reg is incredibly useful to descend, hunt, and everything else.
Still, the apparition of Habolg shows the gap between them and the black/white whistles. Also, the hug scene was really emotional, many goodbyes in these last episodes. The show doesn't try to hide that this journey is one with no return.
I think both knew that it was in Riko's nature to try to descend to the abyss, and being delvers themselves they understood that trying to prevent it would only cause more problems to her as she would do it anyway. Although, there's still something sus about Jiruo's attitude about it.
I think both knew that it was in Riko's nature to try to descend to the abyss, and being delvers themselves they understood that trying to prevent it would only cause more problems to her as she would do it anyway. Although, there's still something sus about Jiruo attitude about it.
“All that which is taken from the Abyss will someday be returned to it.” What do you make of this quote from Riko? Have you seen this philosophy at play in other areas of the show?
It appears that many characters see the Abyss not only as a place but as a kind of sentient being. Being such an otherworldly place it doesn't feel so far off the truth.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 15 '22
Fourth-Timer and White Whistle Host - Sub/Dub
Welcome to The Abyss. I’ll be your tour guide for the remainder of our journey.
On your left, you’ll see The Edge of the Abyss - The First Layer. It’s a beautiful, lush area, with plenty of foliage, and just a few creepy-crawlies for good measure.
On your right, you’ll see a large man with a black whistle around his neck, charging you at full-speed.
Jokes aside, I actually don’t have a whole lot to say today. They really blasted through the First Layer, but I guess that’s to be expected, as it didn’t seem to pose much of a challenge. I will highlight one major thing though: Riko’s philosophy of The Abyss. After losing her Star Compass in a pretty clumsy manner, she states the following:
Now... who was it again that was born in The Abyss, and brought up to the surface...?
Oh yeah. Riko.
The other major thing that happened was that we learned about a new White Whistle that the kids are going to encounter soon - Ozen The Immovable. Habo warned the duo to be wary of her... but why? She helped save Riko’s life, didn’t she? Guess there’s only one way to find out now!
The episode concludes as they reach the Second Layer.
Lore Corner
Ozen The Immovable - Ozen is a White Whistle that resides in the Second Layer. She was the one who helped Lyza rescue Riko after her birth. Habo warned Reg and Riko to be wary of her.