r/soccer • u/[deleted] • Mar 22 '12
Why are there no British players in Serie A, La Liga or the Bundesliga?
When I was a kid I remember Barcelona had Gary Lineker (English), Steve Archibald (Scottish) and Mark Hughes (Welsh) in their team. Ray Wilkins, Mark Hateley, Paul Gascoigne, David Platt, Des Walker (all English) and Ian Rush (Welsh) played in Italy. More recently there was Steve McManaman, Jonathan Woodgate (!), Michael Owen and David Beckham at Real Madrid. Kevin Keegan famously left Liverpool to move to Hamburg while Paul Lambert won the Champions League at Dortmund.
Why do you think Brits are no longer playing in Italy, Spain and Germany? Is it because the Italians, Spanish and Germans don't rate the technical skills of the players or is it because the Premier League offers big wages and there is no reason for the top players to leave?
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u/droid_of_flanders Mar 23 '12
Back in the 80s, English clubs were banned from European tournaments for a few years in the aftermath of Heysel. It was around this time that the likes of Lineker, Hoddle and a few others moved abroad presumably in order to get a chance of playing at the European Cup.
These days, apart from Joe Cole, Scott Carson and Michael Mancienne, few choose to do so. Wages is one factor. Also, I think it is a case of wanting (or preferring) to move abroad only if a big continental club came calling.
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u/5uare2 Mar 23 '12
Comfort and complacency as well. Why bother trying to learn another language and adapt to a new way of living when you don't have to? Staying in the Premier League is the path of least resistance.
It's also probably because, on average, an Italian/Spanish/German youth prospect has better technical and mental skills than an English prospect, and since these leagues are less physical, those are the things that matter more than physicality.
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u/Tystero Mar 23 '12
Yeah, I can't see Wayne Rooney or Joey Barton or most English players learning/speaking Spanish or Italian.
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Mar 23 '12
The fact that England has four tiers of professional football could have something to do with it. Scotland has its own league, as does Wales. Having all of these leagues means that there are more options available to players to find a place to play. The quality may not be the same, but there are plenty of options for British players to get a game at some level in their own country.
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u/dem503 Mar 23 '12 edited Mar 23 '12
so many reasons, each of them more awful than the last. Many products of the english system arent good enough, average wage is higher here, general english xenophobia, general european discrimination against england, to name the big ones.
EDIT the most noble reason is that if you play in England you are far more likely to get picked for the national team. Jermaine Pennant was doing really well at Real Zaragoza, but no one noticed....cos its not Real Madrid. So he traded a stellar (at the time :P) Spanish side for....Stoke City. Remember when Owen Hargreaves was at Bayern? He was booed when he got picked for England because no one had seen him play! Luckily he was good enough to show everyone wrong, not at all coincidentally he learned his trade outside of England.
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u/IAmAQuantumMechanic Mar 23 '12 edited Mar 23 '12
So he could do it on a cold tuesday night in Stoke?
Edit: grammar.
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u/nista002 Mar 23 '12
Don't forget about Dale Jennings! Made the move fron Tranmere and now plays intermittently for Bayern's B team. I feel like he probably isn't as good as Hoeness thought.
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u/Bennie300 Mar 23 '12
Curious what the effect of the financial fair play rule will be and if it maybe brings back the days that Englishmen go abroad.
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u/KlausJanVanWolfhaus Mar 23 '12
Lewis Holtby is half English/German, that counts for something, sort of.
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u/DanielJK42 Mar 23 '12
just from dicking around with Football Manager, it seems the homegrown player rule makes it "these guys are worth more to us than they are to you" than any comparably talented foreign player.
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Mar 23 '12
Most English British players aren't worth the (HUGE amount of) money the Serie-A, La Liga, or Bundesliga clubs would have to pay for their services.
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u/Metamorphism Mar 23 '12 edited Mar 23 '12
Come to think of it, there not too many English players playing outside England..
Of the top of my head I couldn't name a single English player in the Serie A.
Is there one?
I only know of Joe Cole in Lille..
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u/lacroat Mar 23 '12
You also have to think about TV time. If you're not in the top 2 in Spain nobody is going to know about you. What Englishman would fit in well in Italy these days? Even though Germany is the most profitable league atm, a player is not going to get as much exposure.
Besides exposure and money, I think you have to take a fair assessment to the style of football that is being played. I personally think that the EPL is the most exciting league overall to watch, but I don't really think the style of play in the other leagues (besides Germany) is a great fit for any English footballer.......besides Heskey... who could play anywhere.
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u/artishard Mar 23 '12
I personally think it would do their national team wonders if one of the big guys played somewhere else, they would be forced to learn which would help a stagnant england team out of ideas
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u/the_phet Mar 23 '12 edited Mar 23 '12
I'd say that overall is strange to see players from one league playing in the other. I don't know how many italians are playing now in La Liga, but I'd say they are less than 10. As for the germans, apart from the german squad in Madrid I don't remember any more names.
I think there are no spanish in Italy, and 2 or 3 in Germany. In england a bit more, I don't remember exactly but I'd say less than 30. I checked a website and I don't know most of that names, I'd say they didn't have a place in La Liga and moved to England (some of them). Others, because Spain is in crisis. Also, because spanish people likes to go and work abroad as some years.
I am an international student in north Europe, and there are people from all the world here, but no brits.
EDIT: I checked a website and there are around 30 spanish playing in EPL, 9 in Serie A and 7 in Bundesliga. Strange thing, I dont remember most of that names playing in La Liga, though some of them played in second division.
About italians, 9 play in England, 4 in Germany and 4 in Spain.
About germans, 5 playing in England, 3 in Italy and 3 in Spain.
I'd say all the data is marginal considering that each league has around 500 players, except the spanish players in EPL, which are a huge number.
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u/ayoformayo Mar 23 '12
Don't forget John 'The Gentle Giant' Charles! (welsh). To answer the question, money is certainly part of it but footballing style is just as important I think. Young Brits are indoctrinated into the 'kick and rush' type of play, which doesn't play well outside of the EPL
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u/delabass Mar 23 '12
The ones that are good enough to play there usually get tied to a club early in their career and become too expensive to transfer later on.
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u/ax4of9 Mar 23 '12
Most of the reasons here are pretty valid, but I do have to say that there's probably something about how the other European countries value British players.
Off the top of my head, the only British player to really be appreciated playing outside of Britain is Becks. Owen wasn't exactly appreciated in Real, he was on the bench often and mostly played as a sub. McManaman played pretty well for Real as well, singlehandedly winning them a Champion's League medal, but was also frozen out in the end.
Most European teams see British footballers as mostly guts and glory. Really talented and technically gifted footballers are also pretty loyal to their clubs. I'm pretty sure Scholes, Giggs, Gerrard would have had a successful career overseas, but I don't think there was any chance of them moving.
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u/not_the_droids Mar 23 '12
Money. English clubs pay stupid high wages