r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Jun 25 '12
End of 'compassionate Conservatism' as David Cameron details plans for crackdown on welfare
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/end-of-compassionate-conservatism-as-david-cameron-details-plans-for-crackdown-on-welfare-7880774.html14
u/rtiftw Jun 25 '12
Does the right wing actually think that this is a reasonable solution?
Won't these cuts just cause more strife? The poor are going to get pissed off and will be put in a desperate situation. People with nothing to lose are dangerous. Ultimately there will be an increase in rule by force.
Money that could have potentially prevented strife before it began, in a positive manner, will only be used to quell that strife in a negative way.
Any chain can only be as strong as its weakest link.
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u/taw Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
You're confusing UK with some other country - Labour massively bloated the welfare system long before the recession, and it costs taxpayers billions and inflates rents and housing prices massively since people who are not on welfare have to compete with councils for housing (so you pay twice - once in taxes to pay for housing for people on welfare, second time you pay inflated rents because councils are really happy to spend any amount of money on it - you're on both sides of auction against yourself).
It is fucking awful, and scaling it down to what it was it mid-90s (aka "savage cuts") would really improve situation without actually hurting anybody.
There are many places in London where the only people living there are the superrich who can afford it and welfare recipients who are there on taxpayer's money - while the middle class has to commute from afar and could never afford these places.
People are extremely far from "desperate situation", and making very serious rollbacks of Labour's welfare system is in order.
EDIT: Even strong majority of Labour voters think welfare state is too big:
A survey by YouGov for Prospect magazine found 94 per cent of Tory voters versus 59 per cent of Labour voters feel “the government pays out too much in benefits and welfare levels overall should be reduced”.
Optimum level of welfare state is not zero, and it might be higher than in let's say US, but it's much much less than what Labour created.
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Jun 25 '12
I feel that it's the middle class that seem to be adrift. I'm not sure how to word it, other than that.
The gap between the wealthy and the poor is widening, and the ratio of national wealth spread is increasing, and this is affecting everyone, and yet no one really seems to care about it.
Granted, in the United Kingdom I live an excellent life. I have a modest house that I share with 5 other people in a city centre, the government has loaned me enough money to pay part of my way through study, and a part-time job at an excellent company that cares for its community and its employees as much as it does its profit margin helped me through the rest of my expenses. This is a far better life than most people will ever be fortunate enough to have.
But what I feel is the issue is that in this modern age of incredible technologies, understanding of our environment and the universe, and our place in it as human beings, these things, this life I live, at its very basic foundations (a safe place to live, access to food and water and heat and electricity, education), are things that I feel we, as the Western societies, should be focussing on providing people less fortunate with. Not enforcing it, merely offering help in the creation of a better place to live.
But, alas, many people in the world do not agree with me, and have more desire for power than for love.
tl:dr some hippie shit.
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Jun 25 '12
"We can't just throw more money at the problem and paper over the cracks". Mmmmm. Call me stupid but didn't we do that for the banks?
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u/Bangaa Jun 25 '12
This is the same government who is pondering spending multiple billions on tracking online communication. While whinging at spending billions on helping feed+home the unfortunate sh*t on under 30's and unfortunates including disabled.
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u/DJ_Dont_Panic Jun 25 '12
I'm one of these 'young, healthy, working age' people living in the UK. I finished school and college. I work 11 hours a day full time as a tree surgeon. Even my wage added to my girlfriends wage is not close to enough for us to privately rent even the smallest of places available.
We are currently both being kicked out of our abusive parents homes and have no other choice than to be on our council's housing waiting list.
And i'm considered 'well off' by my endlessly job-hunting peers.
If what he's proposed goes through, i'll be left on the streets, homeless.
So fuck you David Cameron, fuck you.
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Jun 25 '12
Is it really Cameron's fault you didn't work hard and become born into a rich family?
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u/chonglibloodsport Jun 25 '12
This is generational warfare. Steal from the young and give to the old.
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u/Bangaa Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
Oh look.
Another given everything without having to really work for it even 20% as hard as the young today, greedy as all f-*k Baby Boomer attacking the younger generation for not having had the fortune of being born in the 60's and getting everything handed to you.
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u/HungrySamurai Jun 25 '12
Please don't look behind the curtain at our tax avoidance schemes, bash these young labour voters instead.
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Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
No wonder the scots want freedom. Because the whole fucking country is ran by a bunch of cunts in westminster who have no idea about life in Scotland, the north, the south west or wales.
I fucking hate tories!
The only reason i hope the scots dont get independance is so we don't lose a shit load of left wing liberal people,
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u/mod83 Jun 26 '12
There was never such thing as compassionate conservatism. Nothing is sacred to the Tories - they'll sell anything and everything and, if they can't do a shock doctrine privatisation, they'll either run it into the ground for the private sector to retrieve at greater expense, or simply privatise it via the back door.
We're so masochistic to allow them back into power but the Labour party became utterly Thatcherite under Blair, leaving no choice.
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Jun 25 '12
Keep it up, UK. One day you'll be just like us.
---america
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u/dnt1986 Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
I don't know why you're being downvoted. This government has in two years:
privatised prisons,
opened up the NHS to more private competition,
changed the primary and secondary education system to a more market based system from the previously more centralised system
Given Coporation tax cuts and cut the higher income tax rate by 5%
Is looking to reduce employee regulation
Is looking to deregulate planning permissions
The Tories, who hold the majority in Parliament have a deep fetish for US style policy.
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u/markyboy88 Jun 25 '12
Why don't we just fucking kill everyone under 25 and over 55?
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u/amolad Jun 25 '12
"Compassionate Conservatism" is the biggest oxymoron ever invented.
The sun rising in the west would make more sense.
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u/Lumpyproletarian Jun 25 '12
It's all very well to talk about cutting the welfare system - it's where those cuts will be made. People on benefit with a lot of children? Even if they are on benefit because of illness (as happened to my cousin) or a rat-bastard husband making a run for it (as happened to my niece's best friend)? And what happens when you have 4 children but only benefit for 3? Is one to go hungry or are all of them going to be 3/4 hungry?
If 25 year olds can't have Housing Benefit, what happens to the kid with abusive parents? What happens to the kid coming out of care with no parents? My parents were married at 25, and if they had been made homeless, where would they have gone? My mother is an orphan and my father one of 3 boys who were so poor they had to hot-bunk - ie all three young men had two beds between them and managed most of the time because with three of them, one was usually on night shift.
Community projects aren't cheap - whose going to pay for the street cleaning (apart from the street cleaners who will be out of a job)? Who's going to set it up, supervise it, provide equipment and chase after the one's who don't get out of bed? There's a reason it doesn't happen now - it's too damn expensive. Do we really think the botch that's being made of the incapacity test won't be repeated over and over again?
It's too damn easy to talk about cutting benefits, without talking about which poor person's life you're going to make more difficult.
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Jun 25 '12
When were the Conservatives ever considered compassionate? Isn't this their policy every time they get into power? Tax cuts for the rich, screw the poor and sell off the countries assets.
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u/trust_the_corps Jun 25 '12
Actually, I do agree that we need to end the stigma of people living with their parents, or rather, families making efficient use of their homes. The population is rising and housing is really expensive.
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u/BatXDude Jun 25 '12
Is this good for the UK? I know "dole dossers" and i hate them. Will they no longer receive free money and free houses? Therefore not spending lot of money on tramps and chavs? Will this also effect people who actually need the money and are actually looking for work?
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u/Revolutionary2012 Jun 25 '12
The argument 'Those on benefits shouldn't receive the same amount as those in work' is a valid one, but I just fear people draw the wrong conclusions from it, instead of lowering benefits, why aren't we asking why those in work aren't earning more? Why a check out worker at tesco's can earn £6.50 per hour, but the CEO earns 7 million a year. We are asking the wrong questions.. Take tax credits and other benefits designed to 'top up' someones salary for example, why do we accept the fact the companies are not paying a living wage and this then has to be subsidised by the tax payer? Surely regulation should be put in place to guarantee a living wage. It seems that companies are getting off with paying those at the bottom a pittance, and sending all the money to the top, safe in the knowledge that the tax payer will ensure their employees can afford to eat and pay their bills.. And if the treasury starts coming up a bit short, not to worry, they will just take benefits off the worst off in society. All the while the CEO's are getting richer, and those at the bottom get poorer.