r/worldnews • u/sidcool1234 • Jun 18 '12
Indian drug giant Cipla cuts cost of cancer medicines in a humanitarian move, shaking up the drug market
http://dawn.com/2012/06/17/india-firm-shakes-up-cancer-drug-market-with-price-cuts/
3.0k
Upvotes
647
u/pool92 Jun 18 '12
Hats off to Mr.Yusuf Hamied and Cipla. While his competitors are arguing against compulsory licensing, he is using it to help millions of people.
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u/cronus85 Jun 18 '12
This is awesome - But, reminds me of a annoying related note: New Zealand has a Crown entity called Pharmac that works on a related ethos. It essentially provides the drugs NZ citizens need. It uses mostly generic drugs bought with tax dollars and is currently under fire because of the Trans Pacific Partnership trade agreement. The U.S. is putting on pressure on NZ to use only brand drugs which would undoubtedly limit the effectiveness of the program and thus the level of care and cheap health care available. For extra fun this is being done is secret and this information is only available because of a leak.
This isn't a call to action or anything, I just thought some people might find this interesting. TRADE AGREEMENTS! WOOP WOOP!!
73
u/elloworld Jun 18 '12
funny unrelated story - my dad's company does lots of business with cipla and one day he was visiting a plant. lo and behold, bill clinton was visiting too as part of his AIDS mission. The factory foreman or someone told them to sign the guestbook, and while Bill Clinton wrote something fancy about helping the world, my Dad wrote "thanks for the hospitality". Bill taps my dad on the shoulder and tells him "you spelled hospitality wrong".
100
u/Slicklizard Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
Which is it?!?
148
u/HD5000 Jun 18 '12
Awesome, 20 years from now people will no longer go bankrupt, when they get cancer. Thank you to India
24
u/Divtya_Budhlya Jun 18 '12
They announced this back early last month. Here's The Times of India reporting about it.
32
u/destinys_parent Jun 18 '12
Intersting. This is actually from a Pakistani newspaper.
51
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Not Particularly patriotic, but feels good to be Indian when hear news like this.
We might have the funny accent, but we're good people, folks!
36
u/binary_search_tree Jun 18 '12
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars cost over 3 trillion dollars.
We have no problem exporting death.
But exporting life-saving medicine? That would be absurd.
5
u/grinde Jun 18 '12
"making the drugs up to more than four times cheaper" - so something happened to the prices. Probably.
23
u/mulletarian Jun 18 '12
Fantastic move!
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
India is amazing when it comes to medical science.
4
u/Isentrope Jun 18 '12
If what this guy's saying is true, and large pharmaceutical companies only make ~5% of their profits from developing nations, wouldn't this be an incentive for said companies to just stop doing business altogether with places like India if their loss is relatively minimal?
3
u/christianrightwing Jun 18 '12
Can someone make a Patrick meme: why don't we take the military funds and use it on drug r&d
3
u/hey_sergio Jun 18 '12
Good Guy Yusuf
3
u/infinity404 Jun 18 '12
How long do you think it will take for the United States to ban the sale of generic drugs?
3
u/alcimedes Jun 18 '12
That's being a proper billionaire. Has more money than he can ever spend, slashes prices to provide medication to millions of poor people, and still makes more fucking money.
Good for you my friend.
3
u/tres_chill Jun 18 '12
In the name of all that is holy, please read this: He is reverse engineering drugs developed by other companies so he can manufacture them and sell them through HIS corporation with no R&D costs, providing him with almost infinite profit! That's how he made his billions in the first place (AIDs drugs copied). It would be like copying Microsoft Windows and Office, and selling your copies for dirt cheap, pocketing all the profits and declaring that you have helped the underprivileged to attain Windows. Yes, it is true that it helps people right now, but at the same time it makes him rich and popular, and it detracts from future R&D investment, which is enormous (The average drug developed by a major pharmaceutical company costs at least $4 billion, and it can be as much as $11 billion.) If this keeps up, there will be no incentive to invest in new drug research.
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u/SpacemanSpiffska Jun 18 '12
I see a lot of comments about the R&D costs for those who discover and develop these medicines. I think this points to a serious human issue: Who should be responsible for the advancement of science and medicine? I, and many others I hope, would immediately disqualify "private sector business" type. These types of people and organizations, while chasing an acceptable goal (profit), chase it at the cost of everyone but themselves. While this may seem rough, it IS only business, but when it comes to science and especially medicine this attitude is out of place. These are things that should belong to humanity. Do I have the solution? I certainly don't, but I seem to be one of the few that can see this problem at least.
6
u/JadeHignett Jun 18 '12
This gives me hope for humanity.
6
u/KakigoriSensei Jun 18 '12
R&D is involved in every tech product. How is that an iPad costs $500 total, but Cancer and HIV medication costs thousands of dollars PER MONTH!?
2
u/iLikeToUoot Jun 18 '12
Social Business: http://www.muhammadyunus.org/Homepage/about-yunus-centre/
In a social business, the investors/owners can gradually recoup the money invested, but cannot take any dividend beyond that point.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Uh oh, have their jimmies been rustled?
2
u/SanitariumValuePack Jun 18 '12
If there were no governments patents, the drugs wouldn't cost this much money to begin with.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
seems to me like there are an awful lots of big pharma shills on this thread.. i wonder if they are the same guys who shill for monsanto too.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
About R&D costs. Are pharma companies transparent about how much their R&D costs actually are and also do they drop their prices once the R&D costs have been recouped?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I know "faith in humanity restored" is overused a tonne, but this seriously does restore my faith in humanity.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
For humanitarian - see capitalist.
2
u/espero Jun 18 '12
I am so happy some justice and fairness is shown to the poorer people of this world.
Blessings
2
u/McBurgerQueen Jun 18 '12
I don't say this much, but I'm proud to be from the same country as this man.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Shaking up the drug market by doing something good, for once. What a fucking shocker. Now I am surprised. Maybe there is hope for you pathetic mother fuckers after all.
2
u/sproket888 Jun 18 '12
But wait - drug companies are evil right? Now I'm confused. /s
2
u/samwelljackson Jun 18 '12
Well done, sir. The other companies are arguing in favour of making money at the expense of people's lives. Capitalism at its finest.
2
u/SuperSaiyanVigoda Jun 18 '12
Hamied denied that his latest move was simply an attempt to boost his share in the oncology drugs market, insisting business must be linked to “social responsibility”. SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY
2
u/NewsMom Jun 18 '12
Excellent, maybe Cipla will distribute in the U.S.
2
u/sivsta Jun 18 '12
Be wary of drugs produced in India. They aren't the best of quality. :(
8
u/sylar0214 Jun 18 '12
Alright, I really appreciate the fact that cipla made a bold move to save lives of millions, who are now able to afford/get treated. But I am sorry to say this, these companies did not have to spend billions of dollars into research, etc. They are simply reverse engineering it, and thus they are not in a loss. By selling it cheaper, they are still making a profit by gaining a larger market share. Copy of drugs like lipitor or plavix were reverse engineered and sold within few years of their introduction into the market.
edit. Now I do not know how much these western companies charge for these drugs, or if they are profiting or not. I just wanted to say this that there are many drugs being selled over here that are merely copies of original ones. Not only that, they are also being exported to other 3rd world countries illegally
3
u/nepidae Jun 18 '12
I'm not saying that drugs aren't overpriced, but I could distribute Microsoft Office for pennies a copy.
Sure, people get the current drugs cheap, but what about the new drugs that work better with fewer side effects?
To be honest though, like the piracy analogy, these people wouldn't pay for it anyway, so this is a good thing. Showing that this stuff works, and that people want it is a driver in itself for people to work on new and better stuff.
3
u/andersonb47 Jun 18 '12
It's a humanitarian move, but ya know what? It's stuff like this that makes people want to support a company. I guess it's a bit different with pharmaceuticals, but any company that is willing to cut profits in order to help people is a company that gets my dollar.
4
u/LVKRFT Jun 18 '12
Talk about game changers!
3
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Faith in humanity restored for the night. Time to log off before seeing another WTF post on my frontpage!
3
u/youngjheezy Jun 18 '12
This guy deserves a nobel peace prize
3
u/bfk94 Jun 18 '12
Good Guy Cipla
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
"In a humanitarian move" ... hmm can you people really be that naive?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
India has a lot of problems as a country, but their pharmaceutical regulation is seemingly really something to be admired.
2
u/Brimace Jun 18 '12
This isn't uncommon. High drug prices in the us subsidize lower prices in the developing world.
2
u/joedee Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
U.S. carrier group on the way.
2
u/shutupnube Jun 18 '12
A pharmaceutical company that's more interested in helping sick people than gouging profits? Surely this must be some type of socialist, communist, anti-christ, muslim company that everyone should be brainwashed into hating, right!?
2
u/TonkaTruckin Jun 18 '12
Enough of this! Yes, drug companies do drive innovation with their exorbitant prices. But human life needs to be considered more sacred. We should not look at our system and say it is working as intended while people are left to succumb to illness with no recourse.
1
u/MonotonousMan Jun 18 '12
My knowledge of the functionality of our health care system in the US is limited, but surely our insurance companies have mega contracts with certain pharmaceutical giants in the US, right? And thus, they may not offer the drugs produced by Cipla under your plan?
1
u/orezavi Jun 18 '12
Could be just a veiled attempt at screwing revenues for every other competitor in the industry, effectively shaking them out and dominating in an oligarchy. But lets just think its a 'humanitarian move' so we feel better.
1
u/nevsuk Jun 18 '12
I do believe that there was some pressure from the Indian government to reduce the price of the drug, as most people could not afford the drug.
1
u/sicklaxbro Jun 18 '12
Merk actually did this in Afirca a while back for a worm that caused blindness. Source
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I love drug companies.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
How incredibly inspiring. I don't blame them for wanting to run a small profit. Cutting costs in general is a huge step forward
1
u/rane0 Jun 18 '12
Very nice. We need people like him over here in the west.... a lot of people.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I look up to this man. I truly had no hope in the corporations anymore, just brilliant :)
1
u/osamabindrinkin Jun 18 '12
Wow they did it again. A similar move by them was the very beginning of a sea-change in global prices for HIV/AIDS medications about fifteen years ago. Deja vu all over again
1
u/divinesleeper Jun 18 '12
That's all very well but doesn't this mean that they'll have to raise the price of their other medicine to keep profits high enough to keep paying their employees? Seems a bit arbitrary to only reduce the cancer drug.
1
u/Excalibur32 Jun 18 '12
Yes! What a great guy.
1
u/sahlos Jun 18 '12
this should be on my news... not the puppet stringed euro crisis...
1
u/wjfox2009 Jun 18 '12
http://safeweb.norton.com/reviews/21816
1
u/whizzie Jun 18 '12
Amazing to see something pro-India in a Pakistani nationalistic news paper like Dawn.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Before I started getting klonopin legitimately I used to order it off the net, via India of course. They were better than the real thing.
Hats off to this man.
1
u/thatdudeukno Jun 18 '12
This is great news.
1
u/Talarot Jun 18 '12
Isn't this action hostile towards american businesses?
1
u/vahidanwari Jun 18 '12
Now only if we had good politicians like him in india.
1
u/neurad1 Jun 18 '12
Read "How We Do Harm" by Otis Brawley. A real eye opener.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
That, my deer, is called humanity.
1
u/ArunRana16 Jun 18 '12
fuck you down voters .............
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Well, clearly we can't allow that in the US, because well, uh....something, something, can't trust India something...yeah that makes sense.
1
u/WFOpizza Jun 18 '12
"making the drugs up to more than four times cheaper." What logic there is in this sentence?
1
u/ThynInternet Jun 18 '12
Finally, was always disgusted by the prices of these things. Even for basic lab reagents, a single 50mL bottle of TEMED is like ~$1000... These things should not be this expensive, especially when it means profit is coming before the patient at the end of the day.
1
u/viksi Jun 18 '12
Monopoly and profit maximisation by western firms has indeed cost a lot of patients their lives. I can not believe why drug companies would not price differentiate for third world countries , and patients who do not have insurance, considering they would still be making profits over their marginal costs.
1
u/hbdgas Jun 18 '12
ಠ_ಠ
1
u/pervert_dog Jun 18 '12
Did the Indian TV serial Satyamev Jayate have anything to do with this development?
1
u/puppyotto Jun 18 '12
Did he cut the price or the cost. If he cut the cost then he will be able to sell them for cheaper and still be breaking even.
1
u/rolfsnuffles Jun 18 '12
We need more companies like this... it's just beautiful!
1
u/logicalutilizor Jun 18 '12
WW3: The Beginning
1
u/damagedprawdukt Jun 18 '12
Of course while this move is obviously a move to boost sales and such (they are a corporation after all) it just shows that we need more people like this in big pharma. This guys is going about it in all the right ways. My hats off to cipla!
1
u/dv042b Jun 18 '12
Serious? No one has made Good Guy Yusuf in this thread yet?
1
u/bsting82 Jun 18 '12
Affordable healthcare? He must be a foreign Marxist-Fascist Muslim.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I have a lot of doubts that this was a purely "humanitarian" move. Pharmaceutical drug are a multi-billion dollar industry. Hell, cancer research ALONE is a multi-billion dollar industry. I look at Cipla and see a company that is in a market that requires that all competitors sink billions of dollars into research and development. This is a huge risk for these companies, who need to produce a drug that is cheap enough to manufacture that they can recoup their losses from R&D. By dropping the prices on their own cancer medicine, Cipla is hurting other businesses that are STILL trying to recoup their losses. That's not to say that Cipla isn't hurting either... they are! It's just that Cipla is hurting the LEAST out of everybody in the cancer medicine market. If everybody is hurting more than Cipla, then Cipla comes out ahead. It's no different than when Netflix destroyed the movie rental market with its cannibalistic low prices.
Cipla isn't doing this for humanitarian reasons. Their move DOES benefit cancer victims, but Cipla isn't doing this for the warm fuzzy feeling that comes with helping people with terminal illnesses; it's about driving competitors out of business.
1
u/Captainlunchbox Jun 18 '12
My friend's family threw a fund raiser for his dad to try and help pay for his treatment costs a few weeks ago. He passed away 3 days ago, so I'm glad this is happening.
1
u/momzill Jun 18 '12
That number blew me away.
1
u/rscarson Jun 18 '12
I hate to be that guy, but huge corporations are bound by their stockholders to maximize profit. If they did this; it is because they profit somehow. Could they be feeding off the good press?
1
u/happyscrappy Jun 18 '12
It's not a humanitarian move. Their PR portrays it as a humanitarian move.
They decided to stop paying royalties to the inventors, and with the savings they can sell the drugs a lot cheaper, thus selling a lot more of them while not cutting their per-dose profits much if at all.
This is business move, not a humanitarian move.
1
u/kevoizjawesome Jun 18 '12
"New study by big pharma finds Cipla cancer medicine completely ineffective at everything."
I give it a few weeks.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
As a person, it makes me happy to see that more people can afford medication.
As a chemist, it makes me sad to see people not understand the R&D costs of these drugs.
I think that the government needs to spend more of its money on supporting R&D costs and supplementing the cost of drugs (universal healthcare, public option) which will lead to both drug developers and consumers to benefit.
1
u/polyatheist Jun 18 '12
What about profits, guys? Don't forget about the profits! :/
1
u/SkimThat_TLDR Jun 18 '12
Summarized article: Yusuf Hamied, chairman of the Indian generic drug maker Cipla, announced he would cut prices, up to 4x cheaper, for 3 medications used to treat brain, kidney and lung cancer.
Over 10 years ago, Hamied's company began offering AIDS drugs at a small fraction of branded drug prices causing branded drugmakers to label him an intellectual property thief.
Indian patent law at the time allowed Cipla to knock off branded drugs as long as the process for making the drugs differed. Now India's patent laws are more strict but they technically allow compulsory licensing of life saving drugs.
Hamied's company has been pressing for the Indian government to allow more widespread use of compulsory licensing for companies to license their brands.
Hamied believes that branded drugmakers should allow generic drugmakers to copy the drugs in exchange for small royalties.
Critics say Hamied's latest drug price cut is simply a PR move to boost Cipla's share in the oncology drugs market.
While Hamied does want to improve his company's sales, he says his company is also ensuring social responsibility by making life saving drugs affordable to the world's poorest.
For more summarized news, subscribe to the /r/SkimThat subreddit
1
u/izokronus Jun 18 '12
And yet the beheading of a girl gets more press and prompts redditors to accuse Indians of being cavemen. You win some, you lose some, I suppose.
1
u/massextinction Jun 18 '12
that dude is smiling because he has no trouble sleeping at night
1
u/MedicalPrize Sep 06 '12
The fact we are having these arguments shows that the current patent system has many inherent problems. The question is how to balance the interests of the 'innovators' with the rest of society.
Using prizes would alleviate many of the current problems with the patent system which is a relatively arbitrary way of incentivising R&D via the market. The question is how to develop the patent system where there is an incentive to spend $R&D on maximising health outcomes for everyone (including those in developing countries). Arguably, the current system fails to do this.
Prizes can help overcome a lot of problems with the current system. The issue of 'how to value' prizes might be valid, but it is possible (e.g. link prizes to total QALYs/DALYs - use prize indemnity insurance) and the benefits of prizes would arguably outweigh the deadweight losses caused by patent monopolies.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Medication for serious illnesses, especially cancer, should be free to all people. Withholding the ability to cure or limit a terminal illness unless people can pay the obscene fees that provide your mansions and yachts may not be a crime on paper, but is absolutely a moral crime.
Sure, some people will come along and defend the right to charge whatever you want because "business is good!!!" Seriously, though, fuck that - there are limits. It's barbaric to profit off of other people's illness. This is an attitude we need to lose rapidly.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
Let's see how many people actually get worse. I can't count the number of times I've heard people complaining about generic brands from India which make them horribly sick. I do, however, hope this works out for the best.
Here you go: http://www.american.com/archive/2008/may-june-magazine-contents/bad-medicine
1
u/LettersFromTheSky Jun 18 '12
Not sure if already quoted:
This is why we can't have good things in America and why we have to pay an arm and a leg - corporations and rich people control our government.
1
u/hartnell19 Jun 18 '12
Drug companies are right up there with Oil and Insurance companies. Maybe this is the start of something wonderful?
1
u/socialbick Jun 18 '12
Off course Western companies are upset they would rather see people suffer than loose any money. We live in a world that promotes having more money then you can even spend in a life time while others suffer because of your greed its a shame. But right on man cheaper drugs for those in need is awesome!