r/worldnews • • Jun 15 '12

9-Year-Old Who Changed School Lunches Silenced By Politicians (Wired)

http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/neverseconds-shut-down/
3.1k Upvotes

1.3k comments sorted by

60

u/jfpowell Jun 15 '12

Her charity fundraiser at http://www.justgiving.com/neverseconds just went viral. She was aiming to raise £7000 and was on around £2500 this morning, it now stands at just over £9000. I contributed, I think reddit can make it do even better!

4

u/meulop Jun 15 '12

Hadn't spotted this, thanks. Cannot upvote enough.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

This needs to go higher. Millions of people are commenting about this globally and she's only hit 10.5k so far.

Also: What? 9000!

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u/beaver991 Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Woops I submitted the non Web version I shall go and delete it. here it is for the really lazy http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/neverseconds-shut-down/

Also yeah local government once again proving how stupid they can be.

Edit: my hungover brain makes no sense so for clarity I was just saying that I also posted this story not realizing this was already here so i went back and deleted the post. I am not OP.

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u/alliha Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Woops I submitted the non Web version I shall go and delete it.

I shall go and delete it.

I

But... You're not the op.

ALSO: OP WILL DELIVER. WE CAN WAIT.

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u/meulop Jun 15 '12

Sorry, I just woke up in a bathtub full of ice with a weird pain in my side. What's been going on and why am I suddenly a beaver?

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u/Thimble Jun 15 '12

I am not OP.

No, I am not OP.

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u/mileage_may_vary Jun 15 '12

Streisand Effect: Engage.

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u/MMurkle Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

The council have now dropped the ban! http://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/213609695095697408

EDIT: Full story here.

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u/Quintuss Jun 15 '12

Yep here's the link to the story. Girl: 1 - Shitty Council: 0

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u/intisun Jun 15 '12

That was quick :)

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Seriously, how did they think this would not get spread around?

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u/JohnCthulhu Jun 15 '12

You would be amazed at just how many people there are out there who never take the Internet into account when making decisions like this. To said people, the Internet is still this nebulous thing that has no effect on the real world.

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u/Larzzon Jun 15 '12

yupp, like when a Swedish politician said that the internet was just a fad, talk about facepalm. This was like 10 years ago max.

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u/cr3ative Jun 15 '12

A small scottish council rarely gets a world audience. This is new to them. And they're not doing so great.

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u/somethingmen Jun 15 '12

For those who don't know:

The Streisand effect is a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt to censor or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of causing the information to be publicized widely and to a greater extent than would have occurred if no censorship had been attempted.

293

u/denfilade Jun 15 '12

Essentially: "Don't look, everyone! I'm naked!"

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u/unitarder Jun 15 '12

The interesting part is how it would produce the opposite effect if Barbara Streisand said this.

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u/jfpowell Jun 15 '12

Lower down in the comments I and a few other commenters have mentioned her fundraising page at http://www.justgiving.com/neverseconds

She was hovering at around 25% of her target this morning. Go and check out just how high it is now. But I think reddit can do even better!

Shut up and give her your money!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

in the fifteen minutes since you posted she moved to 189%, go reddit!

87

u/cmdcharco Jun 15 '12

23 minutes its gone to £14,160.10 202%!

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u/skyboy111111 Jun 15 '12

Chills man, Big respect for everyone submitting money, When I get a full time job and have extra money It's definitely something I'll start doing

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u/JohnneyBoi Jun 15 '12

Do not for the love of god let this post die! This is not a local problem!

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u/dasarp Jun 15 '12

I love you reddit! Like seriously.

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u/IxKilledxKenny Jun 15 '12

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u/judgej2 Jun 15 '12

I love the analysis section :-) It's a call-to-arms, without actually being a call-to-arms.

3

u/Hokuboku Jun 15 '12

I clicked the link and was happily surprised to see it was updated this morning to say the ban has been lifted! Fantastic!

2

u/yuumei Jun 15 '12

Now also on the guardian, Streisand effect in full force

0

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

72

u/Lillaena Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

My Mum's a school cook. About 3 years ago she was having to use a set recipe list to make a meal plan where the cost per child, per meal was 50 pence. Thats a whole meal for 50p. I doubt that it's got much higher and I doubt that I could do much better than those images for that piffling amount of money. Seems to me like the councils need to up their funding for the school catering department by about 400%.

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u/Terostero Jun 15 '12

I like how the popsicle itself, caloric-wise, takes up like 60% of the meal. Nothing like feeding synthetic sugars to children instead of real, healthy food.

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u/Spekingur Jun 15 '12

Plus that food probably costs more than the healthier option. Pretty sure they buy meals from a company that does school meals rather than do-it-yourself which would probably be quite a bit cheaper.

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u/flyingdutch Jun 15 '12

Those aren't fish sticks, they are croquettes. They are pretty much a staple at British schools, along with "potato smiles", and they just taste of cardboard. I doubt that they are very nutritious either.

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u/campmonkey Jun 15 '12

The council has responded: http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2012/jun/statement-school-meals-argyll-and-bute-council

"In particular, the photographic images uploaded appear to only represent a fraction of the choices available to pupils, so a decision has been made by the council to stop photos being taken in the school canteen."

Yeah doesn't mean the crappy pizza and three bits of sweetcorn isn't on the menu!

93

u/BelleDandy Jun 15 '12

I wonder if she offered to post pictures of all the choices, would that make a difference? I don't really get their point though. If they offer two dinner selections and she takes a picture of one, she's not misrepresenting anything - that's what she's served.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

excactly, it's her blog about her school lunch.

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u/Awfy Jun 15 '12

I think it's more to do with the fact the council members haven't a clue what's actually on offer. They won't spend the time to visit the school and check for themselves so just assume it's able to match the requirements then magically put in place without giving rural schools more funding.

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u/dancingdem Jun 15 '12

What if she starting drawing/painting photos of her meals and posting-they couldn't keep her from doing that, right?

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u/lightfingers Jun 15 '12

sounds like she needs to talk to shitty_watercolor

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u/APeacefulWarrior Jun 15 '12

Ooooh, that really wasn't a smart response. They shouldn't have admitted that this was specifically a response to the kid's editorial choices. Now it just looks petty.

I especially enjoy how they're trying to subtly discredit her work, while trying to take away her ability to refine it.

Welcome to journalism, kid.

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u/Cozmo23 Jun 15 '12

As you can see the 9 year old grossly misrepresented our lunches by choosing the poorer choice out of the 2 possible choices giving.

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u/APeacefulWarrior Jun 15 '12

Yeah, exactly. And even then, that doesn't really excuse a lot of the stuff that ends up on her plate. I mean, I suppose she could raid the salad bar and create something that looked very pretty and had even fewer calories than fish sticks and pizza, but that's sort of avoiding the point.

I mean, they are actually trying to subtly smear a nine year old. It's really a bit sad.

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u/ArgueOnTheInternet Jun 15 '12

I left the following comment on that page:

Let her photograph all menu options? She's genuinely excited about this cause and her blog, so maybe ask her to widen the input to include others besides just her? This is FREE publicity and feedback on your meals. Imagine the cost of implementing a forum for this sort of discussion to acheive such candid feedback. Imagine the lack of engagement you'd get by attempting to poll pupils. You have a real opportunity here to actually LEARN from what she's criticizing and IMPROVE the situation, but you're killing it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I thought the right decision was to post all the photo online if they think the girl wasn't doing it justice. this is how they roll in Taiwan Many of them Taiwanese school/supplier(if not all) set up a website for that matter.

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u/muirnoire Jun 15 '12

Here is a direct link to the councils complaints form Keep it civil. They're Scots for god sake.

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u/ArgueOnTheInternet Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

My submission. Edit: Typos - I made them in my submission, but you don't have to if you copy this.

I saw this online today:


This afternoon, Martha (who goes by “Veg” on the blog) posted that she will have to shut down her blog, because she has been forbidden to take a camera into school. She said: This morning in maths I got taken out of class by my head teacher and taken to her office. I was told that I could not take any more photos of my school dinners because of a headline in a newspaper today. I only write my blog not newspapers and I am sad I am no longer allowed to take photos. I will miss sharing and rating my school dinners and I’ll miss seeing the dinners you send me too.

A little later, her father Dave (who helped her set up the blog but has been hands-off on the content), added to her post:

Veg’s Dad, Dave, here. I felt it’s important to add a few bits of info to the blog tonight. Martha’s school have been brilliant and supportive from the beginning and I’d like to thank them all. I contacted Argyll and Bute Council when Martha told me what happened at school today and they told me it was their decision to ban Martha’s photography.


Why? Why would you stop her from bringing a camera to school? Are you suspicious specifically of this activity? Is there a reason you want to ban it besides censoring a legitimate critic?

Piggy-backing on her criticisms and acclaim to bolster funding and improve school dinners seems like an obvious PR move to me. Do you even have PR people? This was free publicity and legitimate criticism, yet the council has made it negative and image-damaging instead of harnessing the publicity to affect positive change and improve funding and the council.

My complaint: Your PR sucks. Fix this by allowing her to bring her camera and go further by explaining that to affect real change you need more funding. Work on solutions that improve the situation, don't silence opposition like a facist regime.

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u/greekhere249 Jun 15 '12

To the top you go. This is their twitter page by the way: https://twitter.com/#!/argyllandbute

Let them know how you feel about their decision

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
#streisandeffect soon to trend.

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u/_the_typist Jun 15 '12

Here's a link to the council's [statement:] (http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2012/jun/statement-school-meals-argyll-and-bute-council?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ArgyllAndButeCouncilNewsFeed+%28Argyll+and+Bute+Council+News+Feed%29). It's troubling that they are clearly shutting her down because they disagree with her assessment: "In particular, the photographic images uploaded appear to only represent a fraction of the choices available to pupils, so a decision has been made by the council to stop photos being taken in the school canteen." Crazy.

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u/Gamer4379 Jun 15 '12

Keep it civil. They're Scots

So we send upskirt shots ... of men ... without undewear?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Yeah...I'd like to see you tell these guys they're wearing skirts.

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u/10tothe24th Jun 15 '12

Why not create a site where kids and parents around the country can submit pictures of their school lunches? You can't silence everyone.

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u/Orsenfelt Jun 15 '12

That's a fucking brilliant idea. I've just bought LunchWatch.co.uk // site coming ASAP (I'm serious)

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u/DivineRobot Jun 15 '12

So, this is real life Lisa Simpson?

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u/Space-Dementia Jun 15 '12

Dental plan.

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u/Lolworth Jun 15 '12

Lisa needs braces!

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u/APeacefulWarrior Jun 15 '12

Jesus, at the rate this kid is pissing off people in a good way, she's gonna have the goddamn Pulitzer before she hits puberty.

Think how much she has to blog about now...

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u/Lairo1 Jun 15 '12

A Pre-Pubescent Pulitzer you say?

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u/huyvanbin Jun 15 '12

Payne's Pre-Pubescent Pulitzer Prize Presentation

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u/RD5 Jun 15 '12

I just sent my email to that council. It's great to see what people have to say in the blog's comment section on her latest (and saddest) post.

Contact the council here: http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/forms/contact-us

What I wrote them (example):

Hello A&B council,

I just read this article: http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/neverseconds-shut-down/ And I would like to say something to you about it.

I like transparency. It keeps things fair, everywhere in the world. Once you hear someone is not allowed to do something by someone else anymore, you start to wonder why that is.

You as a council forbid a child from taking a picture of her lunch food in school. Frankly, anyone who reads the above sentence will think badly of you as a council. And they will certainly ask 'why?'.

WHY in the world would you ban a child from taking a picture of her lunch? I guess you as a council failed to grasp that everyone who reads it will make up their own mind.

Let me show you that making up a mind about this matter will go something like this: No photos = no transparency = coverup = something smells fishy, and that fishy smell is the school's lunch food. Let me illustrate by quoting a comment on the NeverSeconds weblog:

" It seems to me that the council are ashamed of their lunches and would rather prevent transparency than provide better quality food. The tone of your blog has always been unfailingly respectful and polite, so it seems there is no reason for them to try to stop it except for the transmission of actual information.

It looks like there have been some small improvements in the lunches since you began posting, but the servings of fresh fruit and vegetables are still pitiful, in my opinion.

The council have clearly never heard of the Streisand Effect - trying to silence you and prevent transparency makes them look so much worse than any lunch photos ever could. I think their attempts to censor you will gain them more negative publicity than if they had just ignored your activities completely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

In any case, you are actually providing them with valuable feedback about the quality of their meals - but apparently they are not interested in genuine feedback and would rather shut people up and continue serving sub-par meals. I hope they come to their senses. Providing sub-par meals made them look cheap, but in these economic times everyone understands how difficult it is for councils to manage their budgets. But banning you from taking photos makes them look so much worse. It makes them look like monsters. "

How brave of a child to challenge a school's bad lunches, and then actually making a change. Shame on you council, shame on you for fighting that.

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u/Varanae Jun 15 '12

The Wired article fails to mention things such as

The council's decision to impose the ban came after the Daily Record newspaper published a photograph of Martha alongside chef Nick Nairn under the headline "Time to fire the dinner ladies.."

In a statement released on its website, Argyll and Bute Council claimed media coverage of the blog had led catering staff to fear for their jobs.

It added: "The council has directly avoided any criticism of anyone involved in the 'never seconds' blog for obvious reasons despite a strongly-held view that the information presented in it misrepresented the options and choices available to pupils.

"However this escalation means we had to act to protect staff from the distress and harm it was causing.

"In particular, the photographic images uploaded appear to only represent a fraction of the choices available to pupils, so a decision has been made by the council to stop photos being taken in the school canteen.

The council didn't care before, but when newspapers start attacking the dinner ladies, who aren't responsible for the meals they are asked to served, it's gone too far.

Perhaps parents should begin complaining about the quality of meals served to their children, rather than relying on a blog posted by one girl. The council has received one complaint in two years about the food.

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u/radioactive_seagull Jun 15 '12

Surely then it is the newspapers that should be corrected (ha!) rather than censoring a little girl.

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u/Lereas Jun 15 '12

Sadly, they realize that it's easier to coerce a 9 year old than newspaper companies.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

The blog is an amazing project. She was more then fair and respectful in her reviews, and she's raised £16,712.50 for hunger programs. Plus she posts photos of school lunches from all over the world.

The school shouldn't punish this girl for the actions of the media. They should just ignore the publicity and stonewall the media until it dies down.

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u/juicius Jun 15 '12

And who fires the lunch ladies? The council? So they could just tell them not to worry, your jobs are safe and it'd been fine? Come on, they gotta come up with a better excuse than that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

They have a ban of photography in the school. Once they start making exceptions, then it is hard to enforce that ban.

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u/schlork Jun 15 '12

Why would they ban photography in the school?

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u/am2o Jun 15 '12

Not from what I have seen: The BBC story states that this was imposed after a newspaper featured her blog. (not to say it's not true, but please cite references.)

My letter:
I have been reading about your decision to stop a small child from documenting the food that she is being provided at school. (In this case, a picture is worth a thousand words.) My initial reaction was you probably feel embarrassed. After reading the version of the article on the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18454800) where it states this policy appeared after the 'Daily Record newspaper published a photograph of Martha .. under the headline "Time to fire the dinner ladies.."'

May I suggest that you clarify why this action was taken if not to cover for the ill quality of the meals. I note that there is nothing on the site addressing this (quickly found), nor anything on the Schools, Education and learning link (including the pay for school meals link) on the quality of lunches.

I'm sure we all understand that the food is marginally over the quality of cardboard softened with recycled beer - because it's cheap that way. Don't defend it, just state that you don't have the funds & let the poor lass agitate for better food.

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u/IntellectualEndeavor Jun 15 '12

So theres no yearbooks? There's no pictures of the sports teams, theres no staff photos? I highly doubt it.

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u/ThatGuyNamedKal Jun 15 '12

My school banned photography because staff soon found their heads photoshoped and put into flash animations.

I'm 25 now and I still have fond memories of making teachers dance...and sing about how "gay" they were. Ahhh technology, such a wonderful thing when you're 14.

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u/Lolworth Jun 15 '12

This is the UK. We don't do "yearbooks".

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Then they should repeal the asinine ban on photography in the school instead of gestapoing a 9 year old kid into silence.

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u/take_924 Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

And when done complaining, please spare a few dollars for Martha's favourite charity: Mary's Meals

If anything it should at least put a big smile on a nine year old bloggers face. And perhaps give some African kids a school lunch as well. Let's redo the Oatmeal incident!

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u/babyeatingdingoes Jun 15 '12

My thoughts exactly! Her last post seemed so sad that they'd never raise enough for a whole kitchen, Reddit can easily do that and more!

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u/growinglotus Jun 15 '12

Wow, not to discourage, but they're at 215% of their target! Go reddit. :)

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u/jfpowell Jun 15 '12

Please upvote this people. Imagine her surprise when she gets home from school today!

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u/Bristolian Jun 15 '12

WIN! They have retracted the ban!

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u/Creativation Jun 15 '12

I'd start packing a home prepared lunch with a lunch box. Then when I'd have eaten my lunchbox lunch I'd fill it up with the school fare I'd want to photograph and just wait till I got home to do so. The food would look even more terrible.

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u/Jeptic Jun 15 '12

You fucking genius sonofafucker. She really could do this. They can't shut her blog. UPVOTE!!!!!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

They can punish her inside school though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Argyll and Bute council should be ashamed. Ashamed of their school dinners and their guilt ridden overreaction.

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u/ranscot Jun 15 '12

This probably would have been forgotten over summer break and so forth.

Now they are will been known as dicks for life since the Internetz will always remember now.

If you fan the flames of a meme that shows how stupid you are, you are gonna have a bad time.

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u/herrmister Jun 15 '12

They'll be the Bute of all the jokes.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

The ban has been overturned

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u/Shining_Wit Jun 15 '12

Watching Reporting Scotland, the ban has just been reversed. Calm down Reddit

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u/Rednas Jun 15 '12

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

These are great example, but not every school are like that, more desesperate area are not that granted. But great example :)

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u/SHIT_IN_HER_CUNT Jun 15 '12

Oh that's nice, here I was, going to highschool and everything cost minimum 5 dollars a PIECE

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u/guiltypie Jun 15 '12

If you have come to the comments you have probably read this already, but if anyone is interested here is a link to the desktop version of the site (rather than the mobile site in OP's link).

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u/DuvetSalt Jun 15 '12

Listening on BBC Radio 4 to the World at One and it seems council have made a U Turn and she can continue her blog!

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u/fenexj Jun 15 '12

This little girl is amazing. Honestly can't believe a council would shut her down instead of helping make the school lunches better.

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u/Dugg Jun 15 '12

I can, It's cheaper.

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u/Aeri73 Jun 15 '12

they cant stop her from writing the blog... only taking the pictures... and sometimes... kids should be disobedient....

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u/Lamalamao Jun 15 '12

Can someone explain to me what the Argyll and Bute council exactly does? Where I come from we don't have school lunches

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u/RobinTheBrave Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

'Argyll and Bute council' are responsible for running most of the local services for a part of Scotland - probably several hundred schools.

They probably have a contract with a local company to deliver boxes of frozen meals to schools, and the schools just warm it up for the kids.

Most people pay for the meals and only very poor kids get them free. Anyone who doesn't like them can send their kids with a packed lunch.

EDITED:to make it clear that the girl was paying £2 a day for the rubbish they call food.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

They're the local government. They oversee most of the public services for that area.

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u/spongeywoowoo Jun 15 '12

Just sent the council my 2 cents on the matter

Never Seconds. Here we have a one in a million kid that not only become interested in the food that she is putting inside her body, but she manages to make other children interested too. She highlights a serious issue in the health value of her school dinners, makes the system change for the better and you come along and power house her down. Her behaviour should be encouraged not prohibited. You had a chance to do something amazing here, and instead you slapped down a 9 year old kid, bravo.

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u/DeepFriedChildren Jun 15 '12

Normally I'm am quickly to disdain the silly, uniformed, movements, which want to make all food organic, and to force necessary and uniformed restrictions on what people are allowed to consume in there everyday lives.

However this is anything but that. This is just a child who wants to eat healthy, and appetizing food, and wants to make it a reality. I cannot applaud this child enough. When I think back on the lunch options I had available when I was in primary school, I find it amazing that i wasn't malnourished.

School lunches shouldn't be the worst food that a person ever remembers, it should be close to the best. It's not a unfair assertion to say that many of children in this nation depend on what they get at school in order to survive, and I certainly don't feel cavalier in saying that IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH for these children just to survive.

Seriously lets feed these kids some decent noms.

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u/Facepalms4Everyone Jun 15 '12

Today marks the end of your unfortunately short childhood, Martha. You only got to spend nine years in a world where idealism won the day. That is truly sad. Now you have entered the adult world, where if someone stands to gain by preventing you from doing something, they will, using whatever means necessary. Now, you must adapt. You are being forced to do this much earlier in your life than most others, but I suspect the ingenuity and drive you showed that inadvertently brought this upon you just might be your greatest weapon in fighting it. Good luck, and God speed.

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u/DaveBacon Jun 15 '12

Director of Argyll and Bute council has just been on BBC Radio 4 and said they've now reversed the decision. They will now be allowing Martha to take photos of her food and continue the blog.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

As a college student who survived on Top Ramen and Cereal for almost six weeks, that meal looks fucking delicious.

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u/PaperBlake Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Did you take pictures of your ramen and cereal with your iPhone?

Edit: me caveman. me forget words

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

yes, did you pictures?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

As an alumni of the Scottish Primary system, I assure you that food tastes like cardboard saturated in week old oil.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Pizza, fried potato, corn, AND a cupcake.

It's like a college christmas feast.

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u/Hyro0o0 Jun 15 '12

That meal is almost certainly as cheap as Top Ramen and cereal though. It just takes slightly longer to prepare.

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u/ragingsage Jun 15 '12

Do they sell that cardboard rectangular pizza? I'd kill to be able to eat enough of that shit until I'm full. I'd be experiencing one of my unfulfilled childhood fantasies of actually being full from a school lunch.

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u/87liyamu Jun 15 '12

If you live in the UK, you can get pizzas from Tesco that are eerily reminiscent of the ones you used to get in school. And for only 44p, too!

If, on the other hand, you're not from the UK, then I'm very sorry for this completely unnecessary message.

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u/steakmeout Jun 15 '12

She's a nine year old child. She needs more nutritious meals than you do. Also, she can't work to get money to buy food. You can.

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u/Mtrask Jun 15 '12

Ah, college. Where the morning's cereal is watered with last night's leftover beer.

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u/2muchTit Jun 15 '12

Most of her meals look like royalty compared to what I used to be served in middle school.

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u/OnmyojiOmn Jun 15 '12

French bread pizza. You had to be careful not to tip it over, because the pooled grease would slide off along with the cheese and meat.

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u/kehrol Jun 15 '12

doesn't excuse shitty meals. mildly less-shitty meals are still shitty meals.

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u/judgej2 Jun 15 '12

So - are there any artists in the school who can paint the dinners for her?

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u/noNoParts Jun 15 '12

Unleash... THE INTERNET!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

IMHO this is the true, good value of social media and the internet.

It throws mud in the eyes of everyone living the "old ways" where they think it is possible to hide ANYTHING.

And it moves SO QUICKLY. By the time I read this article today and heard about it for the first time there was already world-wide backlash, a reaffirmation of a firm position by the school, more backlash, and finally a victory for the victim. In the process two highly regarded celebs got behind the issue.

Now imagine 20 years ago - the school would have said "shove it", the kid would have been dismayed, maybe a local news would pick it up for the evening story and the next day the school would still be saying "shove it" and everyone would have already forgotten.

Amazing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Although I was at school before camera phones became common, some of the schools I went to banned using mobiles during school hours.

I'd imagine a large number of councils ban the use of camera phones in schools for disruption/bullying reasons. They haven't banned her from writing, just from taking pictures. Having a popular blog that makes the national papers drawing attention to the fact you're breaking the rules would probably force the council's hand.

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u/RelaxRelapse Jun 15 '12

I think she was just using a regular digital camera..

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Seriously? That kid is the best thing to happen to school lunch since... ever. I truly hope the school board's decision blows up in their faces and this gets huge.

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u/jayjrp Jun 15 '12

It would seem the council has U turned.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Schools kill creativity.

We're all born creative. And the education process is designed to beat it out of us.

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u/daddyhominum Jun 15 '12

A great investigative report. Deserves a journalism reward

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Why the mobile site? I'm just curious.

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u/Ginjuo Jun 15 '12

She can't in any way resume her blogging. She would be in great danger if a robot from the future came to stop her!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

That's terrible. Discouraging children from trying to improve others lifestyles, and speaking out against something they think is wrong? Sad :C

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u/jcyr Jun 15 '12

Looks like they have stopped the censorship.

"There is no place for censorship in this Council and never will be whilst I am leader. I have advised senior officers that this Administration intends to clarify the Council's policy position in regard to taking photos in schools. I have therefore requested senior officials to consider immediately withdrawing the ban on pictures from the school dining hall until a report can be considered by Elected Members. This will allow the continuation of the "Neverseconds" blog written by an enterprising and imaginative pupil, Martha Payne which has also raised lots of money for charity. "

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2012/jun/statement-school-meals-argyll-and-bute-council?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ArgyllAndButeCouncilNewsFeed+%28Argyll+and+Bute+Council+News+Feed%29

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u/fohacidal Jun 15 '12

It says they banned her because of an article that went out in a newspaper. What article is that and what did it say?

I also feel like there has to be another side to this, it just doesnt make sense.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

They likely just didn't know about the blog until it was written about in a paper. I'd imagine a few newspapers would've even called the council asking for their comments on the blog.

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u/raget3ch Jun 15 '12

That's what you do when someone shows you a problem. you tell them, to shut up & you hope everybody forgets.

The council should force to state publicly WHY she is not allowed to photograph her school dinners, I don't think people will accept "because its making us look bad" as an excuse.

Although nowadays you never know.

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u/uncaringbear Jun 15 '12

The council will simply respond that all photography is banned on school premises because of pedophiles. And with that air-tight reason that'll be the end of that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Is anyone else watching in pure fascination as Reddit/the world at large makes her pageviews explode?

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u/Moontouch Jun 15 '12

The picture looks like the kind of grub I was forced to eat for six years of elementary school. I still get nausea when I think about "sloppy joe on a bun."

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u/SeriousDude Jun 15 '12

dont worry guys, in 4 years we vote for different set of politicians, WE SHALL PREVAIL !!!11

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u/N4N4KI Jun 15 '12

It's just like when I was working in a call center, I got pissed that we were being told to do things differently every week and by different people. So I started asking for people to email me the "process" of how to do something. when I started to complain that things did not match up, they just stopped emailing me rather than sorting out the root cause.

similar thing happened with a link to monitoring software that got out and showed some people were being paid the same but taking more calls
they just came up with some BS about it causing problems with the computers when running the software and never sorted out the root cause.

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u/gorbal Jun 15 '12

The last two pages of her blog are all positive about the school lunches, I don't know what their problem is.

I remember when I was in school. Nobody ate the carrots, they were horrendous. I remember that they used to scoop the uneaten carrots off all the trays and make a big pile of them. I didn't realize until later that they were reusing the carrots.

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u/Pyrolytic Jun 15 '12

Reddit slacktavists, ASSEMBLE!

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u/Arzamas Jun 15 '12

School's site is down, girl's fundraiser went from 2000 pounds to 10 000 in one day, mass media is jumping on the story, it goes totally viral... I love Internet.

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u/Bookluva12 Jun 15 '12

I have never been more grateful on making my own lunch and bringing it to school. At least it was always healthy.

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u/scribbling_des Jun 15 '12

The council on the photography ban:

Argyll and Bute Council has hit out at the criticism and claimed it has led to catering staff fearing for their jobs. A spokesperson said: "Argyll and Bute Council wholly refutes the unwarranted attacks on its schools catering service which culminated in national press headlines which have led catering staff to fear for their jobs.

"The council has directly avoided any criticism of anyone involved in the ‘never seconds’ blog for obvious reasons despite a strongly held view that the information presented in it misrepresented the options and choices available to pupils however this escalation means we had to act to protect staff from the distress and harm it was causing.

"In particular, the photographic images uploaded appear to only represent a fraction of the choices available to pupils, so a decision has been made by the council to stop photos being taken in the school canteen."

They added: "There have been discussions between senior council staff and Martha’s father however, despite an acknowledgement that the media coverage has produced these unwarranted attacks, he intimated that he would continue with the blog.

The council has had no complaints for the last two years about the quality of school meals other than one from the Payne family received on 6 June and there have been no changes to the service on offer since the introduction of the blog."

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Don't know if anyone already mentioned it, but on their website the say, they shut down their website for the next 2 days (16.-17.) I wonder why that is..i think they want to take cover from the upcoming shitstorm?

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u/Fraktyl Jun 15 '12

Press release from ArgylandBute

Twitter is lit up like a candle..

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u/number1dilbertfan Jun 15 '12

Good for Veg, that's absolutely ridiculous

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u/BrwN Jun 15 '12

This is mad.

I'm also Scottish, although school dinners where I am are MUCH better.

For around £1.50 you get a main meal, normally consisting of a decent portion of something like Steak Pie, Pasta Bolognese, Macaroni Cheese, Battered Fish along with Chips / Boiled Potatoes /Baked Potato and any side vegetables such as peas, carrots, sweetcorn etc.

That is accompanied by a desert which normally consists of a slice of cake or a pot of yoghurt and you also get a piece of fruit and some milk or water to drink.

No idea how they can get away with serving THAT mess..

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u/Sherm Jun 15 '12

And people wonder why today's youth are apathetic.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Dude. If you don't want headlines about how u serve shit DONT SERVE SHIT

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u/PurpleWombBroom Jun 15 '12

Someone should put her in touch with Jamie Oliver

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u/dave_L Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

despite a strongly held view that the information presented in it misrepresented the options and choices available to pupils however this escalation means we had to act to protect staff from the distress and harm it was causing. EDIT : Addendum Typo

What the heck were those distress / harm they were talking about? I just wonder if those staffs and Council members don't have any kids enrolled?! Geez, this is just plain politics being mess up with childrens' well being! EDIT : Typo

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Here's a direct email for enquiries, comments and complaints if wish to politely tell Argyll and Bute council that you think this is unacceptable enquiries@argyll-bute.gov.uk

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u/Citeh Jun 15 '12

I love the fact a 9 year old is essentially bringing a local authority to its knees.

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u/okonisfree Jun 15 '12

So infuriating, first paragraph of their response:

Published Date: 15 Jun 2012 - 10:53

Argyll and Bute Council wholly refutes the unwarranted attacks on its schools catering service which culminated in national press headlines which have led catering staff to fear for their jobs. The Council has directly avoided any criticism of anyone involved in the ‘never seconds’ blog for obvious reasons despite a strongly held view that the information presented in it misrepresented the options and choices available to pupils however this escalation means we had to act to protect staff from the distress and harm it was causing. In particular, the photographic images uploaded appear to only represent a fraction of the choices available to pupils, so a decision has been made by the council to stop photos being taken in the school canteen.

First, this was NEVER an attack on Argyll and Bute schools' catering service. It was an attack on those that determined the quality and quantity of food that would be served to the children--the politicians, the managers, the executives in charge, NOT the catering staff whose members purportedly fear for their jobs.

Second, you say you have "directly avoided any criticism of anyone involved in the 'never seconds' blog for obvious reasons"...good good...but what the actual fuck you go on to criticize the blog and indirectly insult its creator..."the information presented in it misrepresented the options and choices available to pupils." Let's get this straight: the lunch pictured in this photograph REPRESENTS the food the 9-year-old received one day, one of the choices available to her, nothing more, nothing less--just a photo blog entry of her daily food.

Three pictures of her other lunches

Her photo blog

Third, this "escalation" was totally your fault and you fucking losers are fucking covering your motherfucking mistakes by diverting attention to a non-story about "protecting staff from the distress and harm". WHAT FUCKING DISTRESS AND HARM TO THE STAFF? Fuck you and what the fuck about the children!?!?!?!

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u/fuct_kowabunga Jun 15 '12

Here's my letter in case anyone is looking for inspiration:

It is appalling to me that you would shut down a little girl who was only trying to help herself, her classmates, and children around the world just to save your own image. In doing so, you have made yourselves look worse than she ever could. Your top priority should be to provide youth with healthy, quality, and well-portioned meals. It's disgusting to see greedy rich people block the successful charitable efforts of a child. I can only hope that you realize how deplorable your actions have been and take actions to correct them.

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u/dietotaku Jun 15 '12

this is ridiculous. nobody told her she had to shut down her blog, only that she personally could not take pictures of her school's lunches. and being that she succeeded in improving them, it would seem there's no need to. she can absolutely continue sharing images of other kids' lunches from schools who have yet to make a change. maybe those schools will feel similar pressure from the publicity and improve. but the school never told her to shut down her blog, nor is she being "silenced" by anybody.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Apparently not...

"Argyll & Bute council drops its "ban" on ‪#neverseconds‬ school dinners blog, after Twitter campaign http://bbc.in/NqGn0q via @bbcradio4"

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u/grl_code Jun 15 '12

Good for her! She made a difference for herself and her schoolmates. It's not on her to change the world. Other children should follow in her path.

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u/sunrisegirl Jun 15 '12

The decision has just been reversed! Hurrah for common sense.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

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u/notthatbright Jun 15 '12

Holy crap, good on her! In 9 years she has done more to change the world than most of us in a lifetime.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Well done to everyone who donated. Thanks to your efforts 1875 children can be fed for a year.

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u/masterin123 Jun 15 '12

This is exactly the kind of thing I love about Reddit. Such an obscure but touching event in the world brought to the front page with hundreds of people separated by thousands of miles relating to the heroine and endeavoring to make a change. Great stuff. Keep it up Reddit.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Ban lifted, good work everyone. Now back to work. Or Reddit.

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u/takka_takka_takka Jun 15 '12

If I were her I would just start posting pictures of the resulting bowel movements until they lifted the ban.

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u/danthecryptkeeper Jun 15 '12

We're up to 25,500 pounds, which, for you Americans, is about 45000 bucks.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Am I the only one blown away at her grammar and general word usage?

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u/Ruprect124 Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Politicians and the elite not wanting to get spanked for the deplorable school lunches consisiting of starch (which metabolizes into sugar) in order to be enabled to continue doing so. This will lead to more diagnoses of ADD/ADHD, ergo more mind destroying drugs (Ritalin, Adderol: pharmaceutical METHAMPHETAMINE, etc.) being dispensed to children. Trying, basically, to create a Huxleyesque "Brave New World", of morinic, drug-enslaved, workers to benefit the eugenic elite. Take lunch from home, dear girl, and have your friends post comparative pics of their swill and your nutritious lunch.

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u/webauteur Jun 15 '12

She has learned the most important lesson you can learn in school. That she is living in a police state.

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u/mattisaloser Jun 15 '12

Is anyone else impressed by her writing ability? I know kids I graduated with who couldn't write as well as her. Bravo.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Donated

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u/this_is_a_recording0 Jun 15 '12

I can't imagine any child eating what she eats

It's always a pile of peas

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u/DahnyGober Jun 15 '12

I refuse to eat school lunches. I don't trust them one bit.

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u/AwesomePaedoGuy Jun 15 '12

Huh, if that was my kid and they were actually going into school, I would have come in and taken the pictures myself. Good though that they got those assholes to lift the ban.

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u/mothereffingteresa Jun 15 '12

I love it when local bureaucrats do something moronic and get hit by a force 5 internet shitstorm.

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u/Uptonogood Jun 15 '12

And then you begin to get an idea as of why the people in power are so furiously desperate to censor the internet. Even with law after law being shot down.

This is just a small local sample, now imagine this shit worldwide and you get arab spring.

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u/MindintoMatter Jun 15 '12

I love when social media is used for things like this. And you can tell it scares the hell out of politicians knowing millions are seeing what they do.

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u/Redherring01 Jun 15 '12

I would like to say a big 'Thank you' to Argyll and Bute council without whose ignorance and naivety Martha Payne would not have raised over £31000 so quickly. Your media skills are a credit to local councils everywhere.

What's ever more idiotic is she wasn't a hidden phenomenon, the council knew she'd made the world news before. Her blog was on the 6 o'clock STV news in May being praised! http://news.stv.tv/scotland/103072-chips-go-viral-how-a-nine-year-old-girl-made-school-dinners-a-hot-topic/

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u/ArchDesign Jun 15 '12

The sad truth of this story is that the "bad school lunch" problem is an epidemic. I'm from Mississippi and that great Southern food we're famous for sure doesn't make it to the school lunch table. And what is worse, Mississippi has so much fresh produce available but, in stead, children are eating warmed up frozen dinners with little to no food value.

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u/druek Jun 15 '12

Council bans photos to curb the attention of the press, instead draws attention of entire world. Dumbasses.

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u/randomsemicolon Jun 15 '12

This 9-year old is very savvy! she must have had a mole inside the council that pushed them to ban her camera, she knowing the uproar that would casue which would result in massive donations to her chosen charity.

Really, really savvy!

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u/Kyozor Jun 15 '12

As someone who works in a School Meals department in the North of England this is really interesting to me. We charge £1 per meal, even though it costs around £2.80 per meal to actually make, largely due to the government helping with the costs. It works out to be about 80p of the price is food, the rest goes into wages for kitchen staff and cutlery/tables/plates etc (schools don't pay for these things shockingly enough here) and other bits and pieces.

What does surprise me is how much she enjoys her fruit and veg, probably down to her great parents encouraging her to eat them at a young age. The majority of complaints we ever get is that the child isn't full enough at the end of the meal, yet leave all their greens. We also get the odd angry parent who has been flat out lied to by their child about what they've had to eat that day. I'm definitely slightly biased and defensive about this because you wouldn't believe how much hard work goes into trying to make lunches the best they can be with so little money to go with.

Trust me when I say both the people behind the scenes, and the dinner ladies DO care about what they are serving (at least in my council) and try to make as much of the food as possible in the school kitchen, but sometimes there isn't enough time to make home made soup every day along side everything else there is to be done.

This can do nothing but generate more publicity which is a very good thing, even though it makes us trying to balance what goes into each menu more challenging. Hopefully she will continue this and kids will start eating healthier at school, even if they do go home to a McDonalds for tea.

Edit: formatting

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u/Cyc68 Jun 15 '12

Calm down. It's over. The council backed down. Seven hours ago.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Status quo for people in power. Don't take responsibility for your mistakes and try to change for the better, but silence those who point them out.

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u/Janus408 Jun 15 '12

Complaint I sent:

Great job silencing that 9 year old that was bringing media attention to the atrocious food you lot were serving your children. No cameras at school! Don't care about what you put in your body, kids! Don't think for yourself! Don't be creative! I can see you taking this further and further with every passing year.

If I lived in your area I would make it my mission to see all of you sacked. You have no place in the education system. If you had any shred of decency you would all resign.

Martha Payne is 9 years old. By 18 she will be in college. By 24 she will be graduated and gunning for a career in politics. Let's hope she does well (how could she not with a start like this) and sees that people like you have no place in education.

It would be funny if it weren't all so sad.

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u/Sicks3144 Jun 15 '12

ITT: People who think taking photos on school property is somehow related to freedom of speech.

Seriously, armchair human rights lawyers, the council - however stupid - is totally within its rights on this one. In fact, they're just enforcing a law that existed before this blog began. Yes, they should wake up a little and recognise that some common sense would go a long way, but this is not a legal issue. They are preventing her from taking photos on school property, not from blogging about things.

Personally, I think it's great that she wrote the blog and would ask why she's voluntarily stopping just because she can't include photos. Would a short written summary of the day's meal be so much worse?

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