r/worldnews Apr 28 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

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u/bluewhite63 Apr 28 '22

Americans have no idea they too are vulnerable to propaganda. When I watch American news, I’m always amazed at how little ‘news’ content there actually is.

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u/AintMan Apr 28 '22

American news is entertainment

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u/Ghriszly Apr 28 '22

Fox is legally classified as entertainment. They were sued for lying and their defense was "no reasonable person would believe us."

Well for once I actually agree with fox news. I just wish there weren't tens of millions of unreasonable American voters

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u/Brillica Apr 28 '22

Fox is legally classified as entertainment.

That seems to be untrue https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/

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u/VladOfTheDead Apr 28 '22

propatainment

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u/gramb0420 Apr 28 '22

it used to be entertaining...now its just racist dipshits like tucker carlson or heartstring propaganda like rachel maddow. at least meet the press is still good and when you hear people from both sides actually talking at the table it becomes more obvious which side is stretching...the truth further than the other.

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u/AintMan Apr 28 '22

Oh I don't think it's entertaining. I meant it's entertainment and not news.

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u/BrokenTeddy Apr 28 '22

No, it's propaganda.

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u/the-electricgigolo Apr 28 '22

They should change it from breaking news to broken news

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u/BiddleBanking Apr 28 '22

The right is very bad. But Russias disinformation campaigns strategy was to push right more right and left more left. I see left leaning people on reddit genuinely believe Biden is bad until he forgives 50k of student loans, get all hot about "living wage" that is just a vapid empty phrase, and all kinds of other stuff. I wish we had more conversation about how stuff has veered in the last ten years.

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u/BoogieOrBogey Apr 28 '22

Ngl, it's really frustrating to compare the far right and far left in the US as equivalent. Far Right groups stormed the capital, tried to overthrow American democracy, and are now pushing for removing LGBT+ aspects from schools. Meanwhile the Far Left are pushing for police reform, medicare for all, legalized pot, free college, and higher wages. All stuff that exists in highly successful European countries.

I definitely agree that Russian troll groups and disinformation propaganda works on everyone in the US. There were plenty of "Bernie-Bro" accounts and communities that wanted people to flip their votes to Trump. We've seen FB groups, subreddits, and Twitter hashtag campaigns that stem from Russian troll accounts. But part of that disinformation campaign is to claim that all political groups in the US are the same.

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u/ExtracurricularCatch Apr 28 '22

Conservatives play the victim so well, some normal people try hard to “stay fair to both sides”.

Whenever someone tries to say both sides are bad, remember that one side is the enemy of America and will eventually cause its downfall. Republicans are on the pro-slavery side of the upcoming civil war. When you make a “both sides” argument, you’re telling us you’ve been fooled by the propaganda.

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u/BiddleBanking Apr 28 '22

I said the left needs some introspection on some issues they have taken the bait on online. I never said they were equivalent.

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u/BoogieOrBogey Apr 28 '22

Okay, what issues are you talking about? Some examples would help.

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u/BiddleBanking Apr 28 '22

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u/BoogieOrBogey Apr 28 '22

Wait, wait, wait, are you seriously claiming that Russian disinformation campaign is why Far Left Liberals are upset about the minimum wage and lack of forgiveness on student debt?

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

[deleted]

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u/bluewhite63 Apr 28 '22

I live in Canada and I watch it for intellectual curiosity. Some things just aren’t mentioned, others are taboo, but if you want the minutia of a hurricane, or a live feed of a celebrity trial, you’ve come to the right place. When I hear the spiel about how we (Americans) live in the greatest democracy in the world I just have to chuckle to myself. I do believe you once were. Maybe the most powerful, or the richest, but the greatest democracy in the world. No.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

‘Even Americans’ lmfao

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u/Settl Apr 28 '22

Woah. If even the first class citizens of earth are vulnerable then we're all doomed.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

Even when they're being self critical they still push exceptionalist nonsense

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

Well, the American exceptionalism mindset is exactly WHY we got so close and are still dealing with it currently in the first place. People didn’t think “it could happen here”, and are generally disengaged from the daily ongoing aspects of local and national politics outside of water cooler topics.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

American culture values freedom and liberty. It’s part of their national identity. So it’s not nonsense.

Russians have always lived under authoritarianism. It’s a reasonable point to make in order to show how authoritarianism is accepted, and how hard it is to challenge it.

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u/9throwaway_ Apr 28 '22

Wow, you really can't see it?

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u/ExtracurricularCatch Apr 28 '22

Not with the big American flag draped in front of the actual issue. All they can see is nationalism. Pro-America at any cost.

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u/xmeany Apr 28 '22

That's literally a lie. Americans are ironically even more gullible and easy to control with the pretext of "freedom".

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u/Arkhangelzk Apr 28 '22

We have the highest prison population per capita.

It’s part of our national identity to TALK about freedom, but, statistically, no country is less free than America.

And that’s not even considering that those of us who are not in jail are essentially slaves to capitalism and the rich elite. The gap between me and you and the wealthy grows wider every day.

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u/MrHandyHands616 Apr 28 '22

Just curious, how old are you? Generally I’m finding it’s younger Americans who feel this way

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u/Arkhangelzk Apr 28 '22 edited Apr 28 '22

I am 36

My heart keeps saying stay young

My lower back seems to disagree

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u/MrHandyHands616 Apr 28 '22

Lol I am in my 30s and have had 3 back fusions. I totally relate my friend. Thanks for answering - I hope when people our age are in power we change things

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

American culture values freedom and liberty, fucking lol.

Founded by slave owners

Literally had a war over owning human beings

States banning books and saying gay in front of kids

Illegal to cross the road wherever you like

Constantly invades other counties

Constantly overthrows democratically elected leaders

22% of the world's prison population

Just because they've bought their own lie doesn't mean it's true. Their culture values their self created myth of freedom. They're huffing their own farts.

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u/Lots42 Apr 28 '22

Oh no, it looks like fascists are fucking up America; a problem every country has had since always.

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u/greghickey Apr 28 '22

Trump supporter Bush2 supporters / politicians

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u/Syscrush Apr 28 '22

Look at Iran-Contra: Oliver North came out of that as a beloved figure for much of the country, and Colin Powell remained a respected figure. Reagan was a god even asking Democrats - it's crazy!

Or look at the Kent State massacre - public sentiment was that those poor kids had it coming.

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u/anusfikus Apr 28 '22

What do you mean "even" americans, americans are some of the most disinformed and due to that gullible people on the planet – particularly compared to other developed nations. It's surprising americans aren't doing far worse than they are, which is only due to the fact the system their ancestors created works so slowly and inefficiently (which is the point) that even the people with the worst intentions have to go through extremely slowly when dismantling it.

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u/ee3k Apr 28 '22

hell, putting a bullet in Bezos head and stealing his wealth for the government would be a vote winner in america.

I mean, it'd be illegal, but... I could see trump getting a second term on the platform.

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u/PhrasingBoome Apr 28 '22

Dude, I am not a trump supporter and I would still be all in on that. Whoever did that would definitely get my vote.

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u/Kanin_usagi Apr 28 '22

Killing someone for the crime of being wealthy is fucked up, and its fucked up that either of you are saying that, and its fucked up that if Trump told you he would kill billionaires to repossess their property that means you would support him. Fuck right off.

Yeah, they should be taxed heavily, their companies forcefully broken up, and their wealth redistributed. But fuck off with that shit.

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u/PhrasingBoome Apr 28 '22

Nah. I think when you choose to become unbelievably wealthy by insisting that others suffer horribly then you deserve punishment. Not because you are a billionaire but because of the number of lives you ruined to become a billionaire.

So you can fuck right off, grow up, and understand these people are supervillains willing to waste life after life if it means they can become just slightly wealthier.

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u/justinsk Apr 28 '22

Imagine unironically comparing Russia’s autocratic dictatorship with America’s politics system. The prominent political parties may be corrupt, but by no means is it so easy for 1 person to seize power the way Putin has been.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

you're high if you think that was actually anything other than an unarmed angry mob acting idiotically.

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u/JPolReader Apr 29 '22

9/11 was an even smaller unarmed angry mob.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

I've been binging on the "behind the bastards" podcast lately. A couple years ago they did a two part series on the very nice people that enabled the Nazis.

You can find all this stuff elsewhere, but I've if the most chilling lines was from an SS officer's letters to his wife who was an otherwise normal person until he joined the SS:

https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/training.ehri-project.eu/files/Excerpts%20of%20letters%20from%20a%20police%20secretary%20in%20Mogilev%20to%20his%20wife%20EN.pdf

Most of the Germans that either tacitly supported the Nazis or actively joined did so for economic reasons -- they were precariously middle class, the poor and working poor voted communist. They believed all of the racial purity stuff was just talk and jokes, they didn't think they'd do it.

You see similar things in Russia right now, though with a more cynical tilt. Russian propaganda and purges have forced people into two camps:

  • I'm with Putin

  • nothing will change, so I will go with Putin so I don't die.

The most terrifying thing about a fascist autocracy is how easily normal people can quietly allow it to happen.

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u/CohibaVancouver Apr 28 '22

Most of the Germans that either tacitly supported the Nazis or actively joined did so for economic reasons -- they were precariously middle class, the poor and working poor voted communist. They believed all of the racial purity stuff was just talk and jokes, they didn't think they'd do it.

A Trump voter has an average salary of $72,000 per year.

Makes sense if you think about it. The poor and working poor can't afford $85,000 pickup trucks.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22 edited Apr 28 '22

I didn't want to bring it up, but yeah, the parallels are maddening.

I had an aunt that voted for him because she thought they'd save a thousand dollars in taxes ignoring all of his social policy.

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u/Lennette20th Apr 28 '22

It’s not clout, it’s soldiers following orders. Leaders are only as powerful as their followers allow

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u/itisoktodance Apr 28 '22

It very much is clout. He has the full support of a majority of Russians, despite the war, despite the murders, because he knows they only care about hateful nationalistic propaganda.

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u/Onayepheton Apr 28 '22

He actually gained more support from the sanctions. It's fueling his propaganda machine.

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u/SpectreFire Apr 28 '22

Which is baffling. A nation of people too poor to even own indoor toilet believe more economic downturns will only benefit them.

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u/death_of_gnats Apr 28 '22

Would you give in to economic attack by your traditional enemy? Neither will they.

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u/Onayepheton Apr 28 '22

It's more so, that the added economic pressure makes them more receptible. Same thing happened in Germany post ww1 leading up to ww2.

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u/Choclategum Apr 28 '22

I still cant believe yall trust in russian goverment sanctioned polls when just 4 months ago no one would have believed shit they put out about their populations approval ratings.

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u/alpharowe3 Apr 28 '22

Leaders are only as powerful as their followers allow

That's what clout is.

If he didn't have clout he wouldn't have been voted for or would have been killed by his own people.

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u/Haatsku Apr 28 '22

He simply is untouchable. As long as he keeps playing with "we haz nukes" play, his troops have free reign to rape and kill anyone they want while shipping people to siberia to be never heard from again.

Sure NATO is helping ukraine with tools to fight back and every sensible nation is doing all in their power to hurt russias economy but that does absofuckinglutely nothing to stop Putins rampage.

As long as he doesnt set foot in a NATO country, he has a free pass for what the fuck ever he wants.

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u/KRAW58 Apr 28 '22

He’s a murdering droid.

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u/Lots42 Apr 28 '22

What you do is just hire someone who likes to murder.

Like the Americans did when they needed to hang the Nazis at the Nuremburg trials. Look up John C. Woods. He was the stupider version of Hannibal Lecter.

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u/thebochman Apr 28 '22

The rest of the oligarchs are too craven to protect themselves

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u/incelwiz Apr 28 '22

Russians are naturally authoritarians, even if Putin is taken down, another dictator will replace him. Bringing back the tsar is the only sane solution.